Welcome to Marketing School, the only podcast that provides daily top level marketing tips and strategies from entrepreneurs that practice what they preach and live what they teach. Let's start leveling up your marketing knowledge with your instructors, Neil Paatel and Eric Sue. All Right, guys, before we start, we got a special message from our sponsor. If you want to rank higher on Google, you gotta look at your page speed time. The faster website loads, the better off you are with Google's Core Vital update that makes it super super important to optimize your site for low time. And one easy way to do it is use the host that Eric and I use, dream Hosts. So just go to dream host or Google it, find it, check it out, and it's a great way to improve your low time. Okay, everyone, Today, we've got another special episode of Marketing Scool where we bring on amazing guests to teach you the things that they know, the cool companies that they're part of, and also other cool stuff that they are doing. And our next guest is Randy Rees, who I've known for years and years. He's got a company called Outgrow. He's one of the co founders and Outgrow is a platform that lets marketers build and launch interactive calculators that boost customer engagement and lead to higher conversion. I've personally used it. I love it. I've mentioned it a couple of times on other sources and also on this podcast as well. Randy's also the co founder of venture pack. Are you still part of that as well? Yeah? That's great. Cool So, Randy, I mean, you know, it's been a very long time. Haven't spoken to you for a while. You've now moved up to the Bay area. But how are things going? Man, it's going well. It's going well. As you know, it's kind of in the middle of the COVID situation for the last five months, but otherwise we've been doing our best and ow to grow to help the companies that we work with that have been affected, and to make sure our team members are comfortable with the new work from home set up. Yep. Cool. So can you tell us a little more about outgrow how works and also how you guys make money? Sure so I'll go is basically a tool focused on helping marketers improve their conversion rates and engagement on their websites, and so the way we help with that is We make it easy for marketers to build a wide range of interactive and personalized tools. So if someone lands on your page, they instead of just having a regular kind of contact US form, you can create more powerful interactive tools like an ROI calculator, a cost savings calculator, a chat bought, an assessment, a recommendation engine, so all these different tools. We make it easy for marketers to build without any technical or design skill and it helps with conversion and engagement. Got it and the business itself? How does pricing work if people want to get started? And that I like to know. Also, whatever numbers you can share around the business, whether it's growth rates, revenues, whatever you're open to sharing. Sure. Yeah. So the plans will vary. So our small plan is around fourteen a month and our larger plan and it goes up from there depending on features and needs. For people in this podcast, if they go to aldgro dot Co Forward Slash School, they get a thirty day trial so they get a lot more time to really try out the tool for free without a card required. Then we can help them on a custom plan or one of our standard plans. So really it's kind of very affordable to start with, and then if you really have an advanced need, we can create a custom plan or you can use one of our larger plans. In terms of scale, so we have over five thousand paid businesses that use us, and we have about eight core content types that people will build with our platform. The main ones are calculators, quiz it's, chatbots, recommendation engines, and assessments. Got it. I mean, if I were to look at the low and five thousand paying customers, so you're probably north of seventy grand monthly recurring revenue something around that range could be probably more because you average it out right, something like that. Well, so we have a wide range of plans, So the fourteen is the lowest plan, and then we have higher plans that go up from there. So you know, I mean it will be like five thousand times maybe I don't know, you could be at two hundred and fifty grand mrr. Who knows, right, But I don't need an exact number for me. I'm just trying to play the guessing game right now. You know, outgrows it has been successful, It's been continued to grow. I mean, I think this is maybe five years ago or so, it could be four years ago, you know, Randy and I were working out of what we were in downtown Los Angeles. Yeah, and you know times have changed, man. So right now, because there's one website I can think of that the entire website, it's just calculators, right, So in what context would people be want to use something like outgrow? Why should they be using that over maybe like creating an ebook or using like you know, one of those landing page tools. Yeah, sure, so I think the way to think about it is, of course, you know, financial and health and wellness will have lots of calculators and quizzes as their core content, right, you know, what's the interest rate on a mortgage? What's there? You know, your retirement investing health and wellness for like what type of yoga should you do? With type of fitness routines? Those things are like examples that everyone knows, but there's actually a lot that can be done in other industries as well. So for example, in SaaS, we're a SaaS company. At Outgrow, we help people figure out what the types of ideas they can build using our own tool. We have an idea generation tool, we have an ROI Caltivator to help people figure out what is the ROI of using outgrow based on how many the lead lift that they can get. So companies like you know, Salesforce, Adobe, Marketo, they'll use Outgrow to help better educate their audience in a much more personalized way. So instead of just saying, oh, hey, this is design software that can help you, you try to get a sense of what their needs are and then you specify the specific tool, the specific plan, or the specific value that the tool provides that's relevant to them. And so that kind of flow is different from a more static piece of content that might come through a static landing page or a static ebook or a static block. So I think we complement those well, it's not. I don't think it has to be one or the other. What we've seen is most people do both. And so got it? Okay? And what kind of I'm sure you have to have some amazing case studies that you can speak to where it's like, you know, before outgrow it was disconversion rate, after it was disconversion rate. Are there any numbers you can speak to because people love those types of things here. Oh yeah, So we have a lot of different case studies across industries, but I'll give you a few, just give you a sense. So one of the most popular ones is our mobile app cost calculator, which was done by the Venture Practicess, which was our other companies. We did a mobile app cost calculator and that did so well, like within a couple of months, we were at over eleven thousand leads, which in software services is actually really high, and our conversion rate went up to over forty percent from a previous conversion rate of around eighteen to twenty two. So it went up like over twenty percent in conversion rates, which was rat and then we also had to drop and bounce rate and an increase in our search traffic because of our SEO mobile app cost calculator was a highly searched one. Then there's a wide range of other case studies in e commerce. Have a biking example, which is like what type of bike should you buy? That increased conversion rate up to thirty six percent from I think their previous conversion rate was also in the teams before, so that was also a big jump. You know. Also agencies will use this a lot for their own like estimate the ROI of your marketing spend or book recommendation tool. That client did over fifty five thousand leads in a couple of months. I think it was, yeah, sixty days or something. And so that was another great example where their conversion rate was about twenty eight percent, but the scale that they were at was was phenomenal. Go, that's awesome. I mean, I'm just looking at autro dot co right now in the examples and there's just the one thing I'll say is it's very clean. Right. So, you know, we've had people talk about quizzes in the past, we talk about chatbots, there's a poll surveys, there's calculators, assessments. This is all fantastic and you know, for people to get started with alcro is it just they're inserting a snippet of JavaScript to their site. Like how did it get going with it? Yeah, So a couple of great points that For your first point about the versatility of the tool, It's true the tool is very versatile and one of the reasons why we've we've extended the future out for your audience to thirty days so they have more time to really kind of play around with it and get a sense of what can be done because it does take at least fifteen minutes to really understand the power. But to your second question around how to get started and how to execute, So there are kind of three popular ways. One is you publish the visa content and you just get the outgrow landing page. The other is you run it as a c name or subdomain. So for example, our website is outgow dot co. You can say, oh, we want to do like calculators to outdoor dot co, chatbox dot outgore dot coe and that becomes a subdomain and you run content there. And then the third is an embed and within embeds, it can be a pop up embed, it could be a time to pop up exit intent, it could be within the page full page. There's so many ways to do it, but different forms of embeds within your own page. And the way we kind of help people think through that decision is based on the type of content they create. So people usually will have one to five pieces of content which are amazing that they want as a separate page, a full page landing page, and those will be linked to your homepage. And then you'll have things that just complement the block post, maybe a knowledge test to complement how well did you retain the information in the block poles? Those are going to be a standard in bed or a pop up in bed, or a click on a button and leads to the bed. So those would be the ways we kind of help people think through how to implement the content they build on outgrowth. I'm just looking at it right now. There's this Tesla quiz on how much you can say but I love this. Is this a real thing? Yeah, that one's very popular because there's a lot of savings with an electric car that aren't immediately visible. First, of course, there's the gas costs saving, but then there's maintenance costs, and then there's the impact on the environment, and so there's a lot of things that are not easy for people to understand how much are saving over a long time period. And so that calculator helps show you not just how much you're saving in gas, but how much you're saving in all these other areas as well. Got it, And so I'm sure you I have a lot of data around this from different industries, what ideas work well for different niches that you can maybe speak to. Sure, So I think the people will usually start with an assessment. So basically an assessment to like a security consulting company will say, assess your security your current security systems. You know, a SaaS company for a sales for sales software will say, assess your current sales processes. And you know, productivity software will see assess your current productivity routine or something. And so those assessments do really well on our good starting points. And then as you get deeper into it and you go further down the funnel, there are different types of content that work well. So for very low on the funnel, if you see a lot of times people are deciding between you versus someone else, right, So if a lot of times you see people deciding between you know, Marcato and Aliquo or something like that, so you can say, oh, let's do an ROI calculator or a competitor NOWS calculator based on the specific needs that you have and the audience size that you have and what matters to you in terms of your workflow, you can do that. So those are common in the funnel. And then for what they do in the middle, like plan recommendations or cost savings and things like that, we usually say, look at the questions your sales team, get on calls and look at the ones where you see your salespeople answering with it depends. It depends on these five variables. That's a great example for some sort of interactive content you can build on Outgrow to answer that it depends with here's the exact value based on your five inputs. And those are the types of things. You know what we do with our idea generation tool, and then what we do when we kind of help people think through what they can do. What I love about it again is if you go to outgrow do COEO, you'll get a lot of For me, it's hard for me to make up ideas from scratch. I like looking at templates. I like looking at inspiration and then from there I can build on top of it. And outcro has a ton of templates available for people. So I think the other question then is with typical content, you're going to create it and then you know, people kind of fall short when it comes to promotion, So you know, how should people be thinking about promoting and then placing that interactive content. Yeah, so that's something we think about a lot, and we added the promotion checklist in the Outgrow configure. Tab specifically for that reason to help people think through what to do to promote it. And so this kind of ties into something we spoke about earlier, which is how do you embed it and how do you run the content? So what we like to think about are the key pieces of content. Right for us, it's our idea generation tool and our ROI calculator, and we have an article recommendation tool, and those three pieces of content our stable content pieces. A lot of people who know about Outgo and use Outcome will go through those pieces of content, and those you'll see on our homepage you'll see as a standalone landing page. And so we promote those heavily on both the homepage and on our own emails when we're doing sales calls and things like that. So those will be kind of primary pieces of content, and then you have secondary pieces of content where you'll just include it in a blog post or you'll have it only run to a certain audience as an email campaign. So let's say you have an email campaign. You have dormant leads, you haven't spoken to them in a while. You want to run an email campaign, so to those people, you already have their emails, so Withoutgo. You use it to qualify, and there's ways to use our launch an email feature. You embed the first question directly with an email, and the email you don't have to ask them their email because the email is going to automatically throw from your email marketing tool into Outgo and then we qualify that. So that's another common thing, but to go through. Once you figure that all that stuff out, it's like, oh, this is how we're going to execute on it. We then say, okay, if it's a really cool, powerful tool like our mobile app cost calculator or something that you think people are going to engage with, you can kind of launch it as a product on product hunt. You can get feedback from people, and if people really think it's powerful, you can even they can share it on forums as a useful piece of content. Those would work for your main ones and for the other ones. I would have it as part of your standard content marketing on your blog and like that got it? Okay? So what do you think from a marketing perspective right now for Outgrow? What has been working for you in terms of bringing on new customers? Yeah, so first, we obviously have our ID generation tool, so we really try to send people to that so to help people figure out what's relevant to them. So that's the first thing we do a lot of. The second thing we did recently which has worked out well for us, was we wanted to kind of help people figure out what question they have and what article we should show them, because education, for us is the first thing we need to do before it's like, oh, let's show you the value of our builder. So what we've done is we created an article recommendation tool. So if you go to any of our four or four pages or error pages, you'll see an article recommendation tool that sends you to an article that's relevant to your need. And that's also helped us drive traffic both to our blog and to our free sign up, so you'll see that. You know, we really focus on getting people first educated, and then we try to get them into the free trial so that they can get a better understanding of what can be built with outgrowth. And so those are the key things we do from a marketing standpoint. We do some ads, but ads haven't worked out as well as we hope. What we think the reason is is because people traditionally aren't searching like the category of what we do is pretty broad. It's kind of like demand gen at a high level, but at a low level it's kind of interactive content marketing. People aren't specifically searching for that, so the awareness of the category is or the naming isn't kind of well executed by us, or because it's a new field as well. So I think that's why ads haven't worked out as well as using kind of our idea generation tool and putting people into the right blog posts and kind of focusing more on on that part. So if ads aren't working to drive people to your idea generation tool, then what is what traffic source is working? Ads aren't working to get us people into the free trials, So what we're doing instead of sending ads to free trial, we're doing ads to the idea generation. So ad ads do work. Yeah, I definitely help a lot. It's just about figuring out that people aren't searching for interactive content. People are talking about demand gen. So it's a much higher level. So basically like, if people are searching for interactive content, you can show them this is why we're the best interactive content tool for you to use. But people are searching for demand gen, so we first have to show them how interactive content helps with demanden and then we need to show them why outgrows. Agreed, we have two problems to solve instead of one, which is that's I think, yeah normal. And what you're saying is, look, your demand generation is you know, with search, your fulfilling demand demand fulfillment. With what you're doing, it's you're educating. You might try people to a webinar, et cetera and then get people to or in this case, you might just drum to your interactive you know thing and it works out right. That's what you're saying, Yeah, exactly. And the last thing I would say that is really helpful is every content that we build, even our lining pages, you'll see built with outgro on them, and so we get a lot of people clicking that built with outgrowth, so it's our own content, but we do build the outgoths. Even our lining pages you'll see built with outgo or the idea t indiention, so you see that, and so we do get quite a few people clicking on that and turning for further and that helps. Got it. How big is the team right now? We are a little over seventy got it? Seven zero. Right, Yeah, And so you just mentioned something or you didn't just mention it. But I'll just ask you, what is the best piece of business advice that you've ever received. Wow, that's a good question. I think the best piece of business advice is to look at where you are most productive, so basically focus on your contribution where you can contribute the most, and try to bring people on to support you in the other areas. And I think it's easy sometimes as an entrepreneur to get used to doing so many things that you don't focus on the areas where you're uniquely good at. It's much easier said than done. But I think that's the right thing to do. Is just hard to actually do it. It's easy to say it. This is what you said in a previous interview. Best business advice you've ever received is to build the right team and focus on culture. So you know. And by the way, the reason I'm bringing this up to is people are like, oh my god, they're not talking about marketing. But to me, marketing is just, you know, a set of tools to put into my tool belt. Same thing with culture, same thing with hiring, same thing with knowing sales, same thing with product development. They're all tools to add. The more tools you know or do you have in your belt, the more context you can speak to and you can speak more broadly to people. So I guess, because you have a team of seventy, you know, what have you done specifically in terms of focusing on culture and building the right team. It's really hard, I would say, and I think the challenge is to do the things consistently and do the right things consistently. So what we think about is like, okay, we have especially now we work from home. We thought like, okay, what are the main challenges people have now working from home? So the first is, I think it's really easy, even for myself to just spend my whole day working and or not really kind of get a good break. So we did this thing where we said, okay, let's do a team yoga session virtual yoga, and obviously it was optional to do video. You didn't have to do video, but you know, we had someone who said, you know what, I'll leave and I have experienced in yoga, and she kind of led the team on it. The feedback was amazing and it was such a small, simple thing that I think every company should do. Because and we want to do it again now because we're like, all this worked out well and the feedback was great, so I think and it's also nice to kind of bring the whole team together. What's happening now and work from home is you see the sub teams our meeting, but then the greater team is no longer without interacting as much. So that's another issue. So we try to really think these things through. There's one thing that we really like to think about is that communication is really important. Obviously in marketing the way you communicate your copywriting is important, but even within the team, sometimes messages be a chat can get misinterpreted, and so we like to say, you know, always assume the best of intentions. So if something goes wrong or you might think that some message might be intended in a certain way, assume the person had the right intentions and you're misinterpreting it. And I think that's a good way to look at things to avoid kind of misinterpretation of problems that can come when you don't have the tone of voice through chat in this remote world. So we try to do that a lot, and I think that's also helpful in marketing as well. And so you know, I want to work towards wrapping up here. What's one new It could be a tool, right, be like a physical thing like a Peloton bike, or it could be like an app. What's one new thing you've added in the last twelve months that has done a lot for you. I like to use Pocket. It just gets kind an app that helps you can store things and you can use it offline. I like it because, especially when you're traveling or things go wrong and you're getting delayed, it's nice to just have something where you know, there's like fifty marketing articles that I've wanted to read that I haven't read. So it's frustrating that there's a delay in a flight or whatever it might be. But at least I can do what I had wanted to do and I just never got around to doing it, and now I have this extra thirty minute block of time to do it. So kind I like to use Pocket for that? Got it? And what would be your favorite marketing tool not called outgrow? That's a good question. I think Google Analytics is great. I think it's very powerful. I think you can do so much with it. It's very pretty versatile. Okay, what's one thing that you've read or watched or listened to recently that you found really compelling. Well, I think a lot of Elon's work is really interesting and compelling, and he was able to get his work now was like how he's trying his battery day that's coming up, and his work with neuralink and his work with Starship. I think all three of those recently there's been a lot of developments in them, and I don't think those are very compelling and powerful and very impressive. Great final question, what's the one book that you'd recommend to the audience. I would say there's a book called Managing Oneself by Peter Drucker. So shat so good. Yeah, exactly. It's short, it goes to the point, and I think he has a lot of insights in the book that are really useful, and sometimes you can have to revisit it over time, but I think that's a really good one to start with. Cool. Well, Randy, this has been great. What is the best way for people to find you online? And also the offer you have for the listeners sure so outgrow dot co forward slash School that gives them full thirty day free trial without a card. Required and the option there's a coupon there as well for them after they if they like it after the thirty days, so that's kind of the best way to reach out to us. Of course, there's a chat on the bottom right of outgrow if they want to reach out to the company. If they want to reach out to me on Twitter dot com, forward slash Randy Reis, and then on email is just Randy at outgrow dot co. Cool Randy, thanks so much for doing us. Thank you, thank you. This is great. We appreciate you joining us for this session of marketing School. Be sure to rate, review, and subscribe to the show and visit marketingschool dot io for more resources based on today's topic, as well as access to more episodes that will help you find true marketing success. That's marketingschool dot io until next time. Class dismissed.

Welcome to Marketing School, the only podcast that provides daily top level marketing tips and strategies from entrepreneurs that practice what they preach and live what they teach. Let's start leveling up your marketing knowledge with your instructors, Neil Paatel and Eric Sue. All Right, guys, before we start, we got a special message from our sponsor. If you want to rank higher on Google, you gotta look at your page speed time. The faster website loads, the better off you are with Google's Core Vital update that makes it super super important to optimize your site for low time. And one easy way to do it is use the host that Eric and I use, dream Hosts. So just go to dream host or Google it, find it, check it out, and it's a great way to improve your low time. Okay, everyone, Today, we've got another special episode of Marketing Scool where we bring on amazing guests to teach you the things that they know, the cool companies that they're part of, and also other cool stuff that they are doing. And our next guest is Randy Rees, who I've known for years and years. He's got a company called Outgrow. He's one of the co founders and Outgrow is a platform that lets marketers build and launch interactive calculators that boost customer engagement and lead to higher conversion. I've personally used it. I love it. I've mentioned it a couple of times on other sources and also on this podcast as well. Randy's also the co founder of venture pack. Are you still part of that as well? Yeah? That's great. Cool So, Randy, I mean, you know, it's been a very long time. Haven't spoken to you for a while. You've now moved up to the Bay area. But how are things going? Man, it's going well. It's going well. As you know, it's kind of in the middle of the COVID situation for the last five months, but otherwise we've been doing our best and ow to grow to help the companies that we work with that have been affected, and to make sure our team members are comfortable with the new work from home set up. Yep. Cool. So can you tell us a little more about outgrow how works and also how you guys make money? Sure so I'll go is basically a tool focused on helping marketers improve their conversion rates and engagement on their websites, and so the way we help with that is We make it easy for marketers to build a wide range of interactive and personalized tools. So if someone lands on your page, they instead of just having a regular kind of contact US form, you can create more powerful interactive tools like an ROI calculator, a cost savings calculator, a chat bought, an assessment, a recommendation engine, so all these different tools. We make it easy for marketers to build without any technical or design skill and it helps with conversion and engagement. Got it and the business itself? How does pricing work if people want to get started? And that I like to know. Also, whatever numbers you can share around the business, whether it's growth rates, revenues, whatever you're open to sharing. Sure. Yeah. So the plans will vary. So our small plan is around fourteen a month and our larger plan and it goes up from there depending on features and needs. For people in this podcast, if they go to aldgro dot Co Forward Slash School, they get a thirty day trial so they get a lot more time to really try out the tool for free without a card required. Then we can help them on a custom plan or one of our standard plans. So really it's kind of very affordable to start with, and then if you really have an advanced need, we can create a custom plan or you can use one of our larger plans. In terms of scale, so we have over five thousand paid businesses that use us, and we have about eight core content types that people will build with our platform. The main ones are calculators, quiz it's, chatbots, recommendation engines, and assessments. Got it. I mean, if I were to look at the low and five thousand paying customers, so you're probably north of seventy grand monthly recurring revenue something around that range could be probably more because you average it out right, something like that. Well, so we have a wide range of plans, So the fourteen is the lowest plan, and then we have higher plans that go up from there. So you know, I mean it will be like five thousand times maybe I don't know, you could be at two hundred and fifty grand mrr. Who knows, right, But I don't need an exact number for me. I'm just trying to play the guessing game right now. You know, outgrows it has been successful, It's been continued to grow. I mean, I think this is maybe five years ago or so, it could be four years ago, you know, Randy and I were working out of what we were in downtown Los Angeles. Yeah, and you know times have changed, man. So right now, because there's one website I can think of that the entire website, it's just calculators, right, So in what context would people be want to use something like outgrow? Why should they be using that over maybe like creating an ebook or using like you know, one of those landing page tools. Yeah, sure, so I think the way to think about it is, of course, you know, financial and health and wellness will have lots of calculators and quizzes as their core content, right, you know, what's the interest rate on a mortgage? What's there? You know, your retirement investing health and wellness for like what type of yoga should you do? With type of fitness routines? Those things are like examples that everyone knows, but there's actually a lot that can be done in other industries as well. So for example, in SaaS, we're a SaaS company. At Outgrow, we help people figure out what the types of ideas they can build using our own tool. We have an idea generation tool, we have an ROI Caltivator to help people figure out what is the ROI of using outgrow based on how many the lead lift that they can get. So companies like you know, Salesforce, Adobe, Marketo, they'll use Outgrow to help better educate their audience in a much more personalized way. So instead of just saying, oh, hey, this is design software that can help you, you try to get a sense of what their needs are and then you specify the specific tool, the specific plan, or the specific value that the tool provides that's relevant to them. And so that kind of flow is different from a more static piece of content that might come through a static landing page or a static ebook or a static block. So I think we complement those well, it's not. I don't think it has to be one or the other. What we've seen is most people do both. And so got it? Okay? And what kind of I'm sure you have to have some amazing case studies that you can speak to where it's like, you know, before outgrow it was disconversion rate, after it was disconversion rate. Are there any numbers you can speak to because people love those types of things here. Oh yeah, So we have a lot of different case studies across industries, but I'll give you a few, just give you a sense. So one of the most popular ones is our mobile app cost calculator, which was done by the Venture Practicess, which was our other companies. We did a mobile app cost calculator and that did so well, like within a couple of months, we were at over eleven thousand leads, which in software services is actually really high, and our conversion rate went up to over forty percent from a previous conversion rate of around eighteen to twenty two. So it went up like over twenty percent in conversion rates, which was rat and then we also had to drop and bounce rate and an increase in our search traffic because of our SEO mobile app cost calculator was a highly searched one. Then there's a wide range of other case studies in e commerce. Have a biking example, which is like what type of bike should you buy? That increased conversion rate up to thirty six percent from I think their previous conversion rate was also in the teams before, so that was also a big jump. You know. Also agencies will use this a lot for their own like estimate the ROI of your marketing spend or book recommendation tool. That client did over fifty five thousand leads in a couple of months. I think it was, yeah, sixty days or something. And so that was another great example where their conversion rate was about twenty eight percent, but the scale that they were at was was phenomenal. Go, that's awesome. I mean, I'm just looking at autro dot co right now in the examples and there's just the one thing I'll say is it's very clean. Right. So, you know, we've had people talk about quizzes in the past, we talk about chatbots, there's a poll surveys, there's calculators, assessments. This is all fantastic and you know, for people to get started with alcro is it just they're inserting a snippet of JavaScript to their site. Like how did it get going with it? Yeah, So a couple of great points that For your first point about the versatility of the tool, It's true the tool is very versatile and one of the reasons why we've we've extended the future out for your audience to thirty days so they have more time to really kind of play around with it and get a sense of what can be done because it does take at least fifteen minutes to really understand the power. But to your second question around how to get started and how to execute, So there are kind of three popular ways. One is you publish the visa content and you just get the outgrow landing page. The other is you run it as a c name or subdomain. So for example, our website is outgow dot co. You can say, oh, we want to do like calculators to outdoor dot co, chatbox dot outgore dot coe and that becomes a subdomain and you run content there. And then the third is an embed and within embeds, it can be a pop up embed, it could be a time to pop up exit intent, it could be within the page full page. There's so many ways to do it, but different forms of embeds within your own page. And the way we kind of help people think through that decision is based on the type of content they create. So people usually will have one to five pieces of content which are amazing that they want as a separate page, a full page landing page, and those will be linked to your homepage. And then you'll have things that just complement the block post, maybe a knowledge test to complement how well did you retain the information in the block poles? Those are going to be a standard in bed or a pop up in bed, or a click on a button and leads to the bed. So those would be the ways we kind of help people think through how to implement the content they build on outgrowth. I'm just looking at it right now. There's this Tesla quiz on how much you can say but I love this. Is this a real thing? Yeah, that one's very popular because there's a lot of savings with an electric car that aren't immediately visible. First, of course, there's the gas costs saving, but then there's maintenance costs, and then there's the impact on the environment, and so there's a lot of things that are not easy for people to understand how much are saving over a long time period. And so that calculator helps show you not just how much you're saving in gas, but how much you're saving in all these other areas as well. Got it, And so I'm sure you I have a lot of data around this from different industries, what ideas work well for different niches that you can maybe speak to. Sure, So I think the people will usually start with an assessment. So basically an assessment to like a security consulting company will say, assess your security your current security systems. You know, a SaaS company for a sales for sales software will say, assess your current sales processes. And you know, productivity software will see assess your current productivity routine or something. And so those assessments do really well on our good starting points. And then as you get deeper into it and you go further down the funnel, there are different types of content that work well. So for very low on the funnel, if you see a lot of times people are deciding between you versus someone else, right, So if a lot of times you see people deciding between you know, Marcato and Aliquo or something like that, so you can say, oh, let's do an ROI calculator or a competitor NOWS calculator based on the specific needs that you have and the audience size that you have and what matters to you in terms of your workflow, you can do that. So those are common in the funnel. And then for what they do in the middle, like plan recommendations or cost savings and things like that, we usually say, look at the questions your sales team, get on calls and look at the ones where you see your salespeople answering with it depends. It depends on these five variables. That's a great example for some sort of interactive content you can build on Outgrow to answer that it depends with here's the exact value based on your five inputs. And those are the types of things. You know what we do with our idea generation tool, and then what we do when we kind of help people think through what they can do. What I love about it again is if you go to outgrow do COEO, you'll get a lot of For me, it's hard for me to make up ideas from scratch. I like looking at templates. I like looking at inspiration and then from there I can build on top of it. And outcro has a ton of templates available for people. So I think the other question then is with typical content, you're going to create it and then you know, people kind of fall short when it comes to promotion, So you know, how should people be thinking about promoting and then placing that interactive content. Yeah, so that's something we think about a lot, and we added the promotion checklist in the Outgrow configure. Tab specifically for that reason to help people think through what to do to promote it. And so this kind of ties into something we spoke about earlier, which is how do you embed it and how do you run the content? So what we like to think about are the key pieces of content. Right for us, it's our idea generation tool and our ROI calculator, and we have an article recommendation tool, and those three pieces of content our stable content pieces. A lot of people who know about Outgo and use Outcome will go through those pieces of content, and those you'll see on our homepage you'll see as a standalone landing page. And so we promote those heavily on both the homepage and on our own emails when we're doing sales calls and things like that. So those will be kind of primary pieces of content, and then you have secondary pieces of content where you'll just include it in a blog post or you'll have it only run to a certain audience as an email campaign. So let's say you have an email campaign. You have dormant leads, you haven't spoken to them in a while. You want to run an email campaign, so to those people, you already have their emails, so Withoutgo. You use it to qualify, and there's ways to use our launch an email feature. You embed the first question directly with an email, and the email you don't have to ask them their email because the email is going to automatically throw from your email marketing tool into Outgo and then we qualify that. So that's another common thing, but to go through. Once you figure that all that stuff out, it's like, oh, this is how we're going to execute on it. We then say, okay, if it's a really cool, powerful tool like our mobile app cost calculator or something that you think people are going to engage with, you can kind of launch it as a product on product hunt. You can get feedback from people, and if people really think it's powerful, you can even they can share it on forums as a useful piece of content. Those would work for your main ones and for the other ones. I would have it as part of your standard content marketing on your blog and like that got it? Okay? So what do you think from a marketing perspective right now for Outgrow? What has been working for you in terms of bringing on new customers? Yeah, so first, we obviously have our ID generation tool, so we really try to send people to that so to help people figure out what's relevant to them. So that's the first thing we do a lot of. The second thing we did recently which has worked out well for us, was we wanted to kind of help people figure out what question they have and what article we should show them, because education, for us is the first thing we need to do before it's like, oh, let's show you the value of our builder. So what we've done is we created an article recommendation tool. So if you go to any of our four or four pages or error pages, you'll see an article recommendation tool that sends you to an article that's relevant to your need. And that's also helped us drive traffic both to our blog and to our free sign up, so you'll see that. You know, we really focus on getting people first educated, and then we try to get them into the free trial so that they can get a better understanding of what can be built with outgrowth. And so those are the key things we do from a marketing standpoint. We do some ads, but ads haven't worked out as well as we hope. What we think the reason is is because people traditionally aren't searching like the category of what we do is pretty broad. It's kind of like demand gen at a high level, but at a low level it's kind of interactive content marketing. People aren't specifically searching for that, so the awareness of the category is or the naming isn't kind of well executed by us, or because it's a new field as well. So I think that's why ads haven't worked out as well as using kind of our idea generation tool and putting people into the right blog posts and kind of focusing more on on that part. So if ads aren't working to drive people to your idea generation tool, then what is what traffic source is working? Ads aren't working to get us people into the free trials, So what we're doing instead of sending ads to free trial, we're doing ads to the idea generation. So ad ads do work. Yeah, I definitely help a lot. It's just about figuring out that people aren't searching for interactive content. People are talking about demand gen. So it's a much higher level. So basically like, if people are searching for interactive content, you can show them this is why we're the best interactive content tool for you to use. But people are searching for demand gen, so we first have to show them how interactive content helps with demanden and then we need to show them why outgrows. Agreed, we have two problems to solve instead of one, which is that's I think, yeah normal. And what you're saying is, look, your demand generation is you know, with search, your fulfilling demand demand fulfillment. With what you're doing, it's you're educating. You might try people to a webinar, et cetera and then get people to or in this case, you might just drum to your interactive you know thing and it works out right. That's what you're saying, Yeah, exactly. And the last thing I would say that is really helpful is every content that we build, even our lining pages, you'll see built with outgro on them, and so we get a lot of people clicking that built with outgrowth, so it's our own content, but we do build the outgoths. Even our lining pages you'll see built with outgo or the idea t indiention, so you see that, and so we do get quite a few people clicking on that and turning for further and that helps. Got it. How big is the team right now? We are a little over seventy got it? Seven zero. Right, Yeah, And so you just mentioned something or you didn't just mention it. But I'll just ask you, what is the best piece of business advice that you've ever received. Wow, that's a good question. I think the best piece of business advice is to look at where you are most productive, so basically focus on your contribution where you can contribute the most, and try to bring people on to support you in the other areas. And I think it's easy sometimes as an entrepreneur to get used to doing so many things that you don't focus on the areas where you're uniquely good at. It's much easier said than done. But I think that's the right thing to do. Is just hard to actually do it. It's easy to say it. This is what you said in a previous interview. Best business advice you've ever received is to build the right team and focus on culture. So you know. And by the way, the reason I'm bringing this up to is people are like, oh my god, they're not talking about marketing. But to me, marketing is just, you know, a set of tools to put into my tool belt. Same thing with culture, same thing with hiring, same thing with knowing sales, same thing with product development. They're all tools to add. The more tools you know or do you have in your belt, the more context you can speak to and you can speak more broadly to people. So I guess, because you have a team of seventy, you know, what have you done specifically in terms of focusing on culture and building the right team. It's really hard, I would say, and I think the challenge is to do the things consistently and do the right things consistently. So what we think about is like, okay, we have especially now we work from home. We thought like, okay, what are the main challenges people have now working from home? So the first is, I think it's really easy, even for myself to just spend my whole day working and or not really kind of get a good break. So we did this thing where we said, okay, let's do a team yoga session virtual yoga, and obviously it was optional to do video. You didn't have to do video, but you know, we had someone who said, you know what, I'll leave and I have experienced in yoga, and she kind of led the team on it. The feedback was amazing and it was such a small, simple thing that I think every company should do. Because and we want to do it again now because we're like, all this worked out well and the feedback was great, so I think and it's also nice to kind of bring the whole team together. What's happening now and work from home is you see the sub teams our meeting, but then the greater team is no longer without interacting as much. So that's another issue. So we try to really think these things through. There's one thing that we really like to think about is that communication is really important. Obviously in marketing the way you communicate your copywriting is important, but even within the team, sometimes messages be a chat can get misinterpreted, and so we like to say, you know, always assume the best of intentions. So if something goes wrong or you might think that some message might be intended in a certain way, assume the person had the right intentions and you're misinterpreting it. And I think that's a good way to look at things to avoid kind of misinterpretation of problems that can come when you don't have the tone of voice through chat in this remote world. So we try to do that a lot, and I think that's also helpful in marketing as well. And so you know, I want to work towards wrapping up here. What's one new It could be a tool, right, be like a physical thing like a Peloton bike, or it could be like an app. What's one new thing you've added in the last twelve months that has done a lot for you. I like to use Pocket. It just gets kind an app that helps you can store things and you can use it offline. I like it because, especially when you're traveling or things go wrong and you're getting delayed, it's nice to just have something where you know, there's like fifty marketing articles that I've wanted to read that I haven't read. So it's frustrating that there's a delay in a flight or whatever it might be. But at least I can do what I had wanted to do and I just never got around to doing it, and now I have this extra thirty minute block of time to do it. So kind I like to use Pocket for that? Got it? And what would be your favorite marketing tool not called outgrow? That's a good question. I think Google Analytics is great. I think it's very powerful. I think you can do so much with it. It's very pretty versatile. Okay, what's one thing that you've read or watched or listened to recently that you found really compelling. Well, I think a lot of Elon's work is really interesting and compelling, and he was able to get his work now was like how he's trying his battery day that's coming up, and his work with neuralink and his work with Starship. I think all three of those recently there's been a lot of developments in them, and I don't think those are very compelling and powerful and very impressive. Great final question, what's the one book that you'd recommend to the audience. I would say there's a book called Managing Oneself by Peter Drucker. So shat so good. Yeah, exactly. It's short, it goes to the point, and I think he has a lot of insights in the book that are really useful, and sometimes you can have to revisit it over time, but I think that's a really good one to start with. Cool. Well, Randy, this has been great. What is the best way for people to find you online? And also the offer you have for the listeners sure so outgrow dot co forward slash School that gives them full thirty day free trial without a card. Required and the option there's a coupon there as well for them after they if they like it after the thirty days, so that's kind of the best way to reach out to us. Of course, there's a chat on the bottom right of outgrow if they want to reach out to the company. If they want to reach out to me on Twitter dot com, forward slash Randy Reis, and then on email is just Randy at outgrow dot co. Cool Randy, thanks so much for doing us. Thank you, thank you. This is great. We appreciate you joining us for this session of marketing School. Be sure to rate, review, and subscribe to the show and visit marketingschool dot io for more resources based on today's topic, as well as access to more episodes that will help you find true marketing success. That's marketingschool dot io until next time. Class dismissed.