Is having a crush the secret to a happy relationship, or the gateway drug to a ruinous affair? We can’t agree. Meanwhile, comedian Nikki Glaser says that sexual cheating is a turn-on and emotional cheating is a no-no. Who’s right, who’s deluded, and who should just be single, according to Emily Vernem?

Plus, enthusiasm for hobbies is at an-all time high, but why does it feel like men get all the good ones, while women get the leftovers of leisure? Holly Wainwright talks about her life-changing gardening habit, but acknowledges it’s first to go when life gets busy. So what’s an untouchable 'Sovereign Hobby', and how do we get one? 

And, there is an unofficial list of things women do to look like they have their shit together, and it involves everything from keeping whites white, to having enough coathangers, to knowing what stock is. Clare Stephens just wishes she could remember the snacks.

TV RECCOS SPECIAL
Clare’s watching:DTF St. Louison HBO Max. A dark, nonlinear comedy about a love triangle, a dating app for married people, and David Harbour being incredibly likable.
Holly’s watching: Riot Women on SBS. Created by Happy Valley’s Sally Wainwright, it’s a brilliant look at five middle-aged women who decide to form a punk band.
Em’s watching: Margo’s Got Money Troubleson Apple TV. Starring Elle Fanning, Michelle Pfeiffer, and Nick Offerman, it’s the story of a college dropout navigating new motherhood and mounting bills.

SUBSCRIPTION GIVEAWAY: Win a $2,000 Bed Threads voucher. Subscribe to Mamamia here before April 30 to be automatically entered. Current subscriber? You're already in the draw. T&Cs apply.


SUBSCRIBE here: Support independent women's media 

What To Listen To Next: 
Listen to our latest episode: Mia's Uncomfortable Aha Moment About Friendship
Listen: A Podcast Feud & Hanging Out With Prince Harry
Listen: She's Back! Mia Confronts Rival Anne Stephens On 'Nana Rules'
Listen: Quick Question: Why Are You So Annoying?
Listen: 'The Chatbot History That Ruined My Relationship’
Listen: Mia & Amelia On The Cheating Drama Everyone’s Talking About
Listen: The Hollywood Star Who Hates Everyone
Listen: Mia & Anne Stephens: A Nana Leaderboard
Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts 

Discover more Mamamia Podcasts here including the very latest episode of Parenting Out Loud, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.

SUBSCRIBE here:Support independent women's media 

You can now watch our show in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see

Mamamia Out Loud on Apple

What to read: 
Elle Fanning's brilliant new TV show is smart, sincere and occasionally sexy.
Put away your oversized blazer. This is what stylish women are wearing in 2026.
Nikki Glaser met her boyfriend on set in 2013. They've broken up five times since.
'Old-school hobbies are back. These 6 to try with your kids will convert you.'

THE END BITS: 

Check out our merch at MamamiaOutLoud.com

GET IN TOUCH:

Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au

Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message.

Join our Facebook group Mamamia Outlouders to talk about the show.

Follow us on Instagram @mamamiaoutloud and on Tiktok @mamamiaoutloud

CREDITS:

Hosts: Holly Wainwright, Clare Stephens & Emily Vernem

Group Executive Producer: Ruth Devine

Executive Producer: Sasha Tannock

Video Producer: Josh Green

Junior Content Producer: Tessa Kotowicz

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.

Is having a crush the secret to a happy relationship, or the gateway drug to a ruinous affair? We can&rsquo;t agree. Meanwhile, comedian Nikki Glaser says that sexual cheating is a turn-on and emotional cheating is a no-no. Who&rsquo;s right, who&rsquo;s deluded, and who should just be single, according to Emily Vernem?
Plus, enthusiasm for hobbies is at an-all time high, but why does it feel like men get all the good ones, while women get the leftovers of leisure? Holly Wainwright talks about her life-changing gardening habit, but acknowledges it&rsquo;s first to go when life gets busy. So what&rsquo;s an untouchable 'Sovereign Hobby', and how do we get one?&nbsp;
And, there is an unofficial list of things women do to look like they have their shit together, and it involves everything from keeping whites white, to having enough coathangers, to knowing what stock is. Clare Stephens just wishes she could remember the snacks.
TV RECCOS SPECIAL
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">Clare&rsquo;s watching: <a href="https://fave.co/4cvYqAf">DTF St. Louis </a>on HBO Max. A dark, nonlinear comedy about a love triangle, a dating app for married people, and David Harbour being incredibly likable.</li>
<li aria-level="1">Holly&rsquo;s watching: <a href="https://fave.co/4ebNJWb">Riot Women</a> on SBS. Created by Happy Valley&rsquo;s Sally Wainwright, it&rsquo;s a brilliant look at five middle-aged women who decide to form a punk band.</li>
<li aria-level="1">Em&rsquo;s watching: <a href="https://fave.co/3O6c7hi">Margo&rsquo;s Got Money Troubles </a>on Apple TV. Starring Elle Fanning, Michelle Pfeiffer, and Nick Offerman, it&rsquo;s the story of a college dropout navigating new motherhood and mounting bills.</li>
</ul>
SUBSCRIPTION GIVEAWAY: Win a $2,000 Bed Threads voucher. <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/bed-threads-voucher-giveaway/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=giveaways&amp;utm_content=bed-threads">Subscribe to Mamamia here</a> before April 30 to be automatically entered. Current subscriber? You're already in the draw. <a href="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/subscriber-giveaway-bed-threads-5688743">T&amp;Cs apply</a>. 
SUBSCRIBE here:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Support independent women's media</a>&nbsp;
What To Listen To Next:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">Listen to our latest episode:<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/subs-mia-four-burners-theory/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"> Mia's Uncomfortable Aha Moment About Friendship</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/prince-harry-meghan-australia/">A Podcast Feud &amp; Hanging Out With Prince Harry</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/subs-mia-freedman-anne-stephens-nana-rules/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">She's Back! Mia Confronts Rival Anne Stephens On 'Nana Rules'</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/coachella-bieber-pay-day/">Quick Question: Why Are You So Annoying?</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/chatbot-chatgpt-relationship-therapist/">'The Chatbot History That Ruined My Relationship&rsquo;</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/subs-marriage-midlife-cheating/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Mia &amp; Amelia On The Cheating Drama Everyone&rsquo;s Talking About</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/taylor-swift-wedding-predictions/">The Hollywood Star Who Hates Everyone</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/mia-freedman-twins-nana-leaderboard/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Mia &amp; Anne Stephens: A Nana Leaderboard</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/cancelled/cancelled-jessie-twins-birth-story/"></a><a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/au/channel/mamamia/id6442502456?ign-itscg=80085&amp;ign-itsct=pod_cha_mamam332_NA">Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts&nbsp;</a></li>
</ul>
Discover more <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/">Mamamia Podcasts here </a>including the very latest episode of <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/parenting-out-loud/">Parenting Out Loud</a>, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.
SUBSCRIBE here:<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"> Support independent women's media</a>&nbsp;
You can now watch our show in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see
<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/mamamia-out-loud/id928350893">Mamamia Out Loud on Apple</a>
What to read:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/margos-got-money-troubles-review/">Elle Fanning's brilliant new TV show is smart, sincere and occasionally sexy.</a><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/life-changing-list-of-questions/"></a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/fitted-blazer-trend/">Put away your oversized blazer. This is what stylish women are wearing in 2026.</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/nikki-glaser-boyfriend/">Nikki Glaser met her boyfriend on set in 2013. They've broken up five times since.</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/old-school-hobbies-are-back/">'Old-school hobbies are back. These 6 to try with your kids will convert you.'</a></li>
</ul>
THE END BITS:&nbsp;
Check out our merch at<a href="https://www.mamamiaoutloud.com.au/store"> MamamiaOutLoud.com</a>
GET IN TOUCH:
Feedback? We&rsquo;re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! <a href="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/send-a-podcast-voice-note-467960">Send us a voice message</a>.
Join our Facebook group <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/outlouders">Mamamia Outlouders</a> to talk about the show.
Follow us on Instagram<a href="https://www.instagram.com/mamamiaoutloud/?hl=en"> @mamamiaoutloud</a> and on Tiktok<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@mamamiaoutloud"> @mamamiaoutloud</a>
CREDITS:
Hosts: Holly Wainwright, Clare Stephens &amp; Emily Vernem
Group Executive Producer: Ruth Devine
Executive Producer: Sasha Tannock
Video Producer: Josh Green
Junior Content Producer: Tessa Kotowicz
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.

Australia's #1 podcast for women is where inquisitive minds come for great conversation — with an occasional side serve of chaos. Covering news, pop culture, and big ideas, plus the small stuff that matters, Mamamia Out Loud features a rotating panel of hosts, including Mia Freedman, Jessie Stephens, Holly Wainwright, Clare Stephens, Amelia Lester, and Em Vernem. It's your daily dose of conversation that feels like catching up with your funniest and sharpest friends in the group chat. It’s conversation at its most addictive.

Australia's #1 podcast for women is where inquisitive minds come for great conversation &mdash; with an occasional side serve of chaos. Covering news, pop culture, and big ideas, plus the small stuff that matters, Mamamia Out Loud features a rotating panel of hosts, including Mia Freedman, Jessie Stephens, Holly Wainwright, Clare Stephens, Amelia Lester, and Em Vernem. It's your daily dose of conversation that feels like catching up with your funniest and sharpest friends in the group chat. It&rsquo;s conversation at its most addictive.

A weekly podcast that's smart, often silly and sometimes surprising.

Mamamia Out Loud

A Fight About Who’s Allowed To Have A Crush

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/3ea926be-9be7-482a-8ac3-a44f016e43d1/clips/abb3c0a3-4ac7-4adc-aed4-b42700311efd/transcript