Em Vernem changes the books on her shelf every time a date comes over. Margaret Atwood goes front and centre. So does a novel she hasn't actually read. Today Jessie Stephens wants to know how we're all arranging our books, and why a fantasy series coming out two centimetres taller has sent Em into a full meltdown. 

Plus, Holly Wainwright asks whether there's any such thing as guilt-free reality TV, after Celebrity Traitors UK ended under a duty of care cloud. 

Also, Em explains how a 20-year-old just became Formula One world champion and why his teammate went silent on the radio.

And for our recommendations, Jessie has cheated on us with another podcast, Holly watched a horror movie on purpose, and Em has a dip worth taking to a party.

Plus, Holly has a new book coming out! You can pre order her book here.

Subscribehere for 30% off your annual Mamamia subscription for Black Friday with code BLACK30. Code applied at the checkout. Offer ends November 30.

Women 30+, we want to hear from you! Take our quick 3-minute survey for your chance to win a $1,000 gift card. 

Recommendations

Em recommendsthe snack the 3 Layer nacho dip and if you can't find it to make your own.  

Jessie recommends her brand new podcast, Lazy Girl Hour.

Holly recommends Backrooms and to preorder her upcoming book, What I Did To Deserve You.

Keen for more? Check out the Mamamia Out Loud newsletter.

What To Listen To Next: 
Listen to our latest episode: Everything Jessie Stephens Did Before Getting To Work
Listen: Craig Silvey Pleaded Guilty. Then Published A 9000-Word ‘Apology’.
Listen: Kristen, Dax & Nobody Wants This
Listen: Jennifer Lawrence’s ‘Hot Mum’ Rebrand & The 3-Day Panic You Can Ignore
Listen: Love Gap Relationships & It Started With An Argument About A Dish Rack
Listen: So What For Aussies If Trump "Loses" Next Week? Allow Us To Explain.
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Mamamia Out Loud on Apple

What to read: 
'I'm the friend people come to for book recs. These are the 9 books I tell everyone to read.'
HOLLY WAINWRIGHT: 'My days have been a bit sh*t lately. This book is helping.'
Rainbow books and random piles: 14 women share how they style their bookcases.
'I just finished reading the new ACOTAR book. Here are my very honest thoughts.'
'The best reality show of 2025 was one you probably missed.'

THE END BITS: 

Check out our merch at MamamiaOutLoud.com

GET IN TOUCH:

Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au

Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message.

Join our Facebook group Mamamia Outlouders to talk about the show.

Follow us on Instagram @mamamiaoutloud and on Tiktok @mamamiaoutloud

CREDITS:

Hosts: Holly Wainwright, Jessie Stephens & Emily Vernem

Acting Group Executive Producer: Georgie Page

Executive Producer: Keeshia Pettit

Video Producer: Matt Perry

Associate Producer: Tessa Kotowicz

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.

Em Vernem changes the books on her shelf every time a date comes over. Margaret Atwood goes front and centre. So does a novel she hasn't actually read. Today Jessie Stephens wants to know how we're all arranging our books, and why a fantasy series coming out two centimetres taller has sent Em into a full meltdown. Plus, Holly Wainwright asks whether there's any such thing as guilt-free reality TV, after Celebrity Traitors UK ended under a duty of care cloud. Also, Em explains how a 20-year-old just became Formula One world champion and why his teammate went silent on the radio. And for our recommendations, Jessie has cheated on us with another podcast, Holly watched a horror movie on purpose, and Em has a dip worth taking to a party. Plus, Holly has a new book coming out!&nbsp;<a href="https://www.hollywainwright.com/preorder">You can pre order her book here</a>.
<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol&amp;utm_content=black-friday&amp;code=BLACK30">Subscribe</a> <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol&amp;utm_content=black-friday&amp;code=BLACK30">here</a> for 30% off your annual Mamamia subscription for Black Friday with code BLACK30. Code applied at the checkout. Offer ends November 30.
Women 30+, we want to hear from you! Take our quick 3-minute survey for your chance to win a<a href="https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/8995686/Fed-Gov-Menopause-BUS"> $1,000 gift card</a>.&nbsp;
Recommendations
Em recommends the snack the<a href="https://www.coles.com.au/product/fifya-heavenly-dip-nachos-250g-3914126"> 3 Layer nacho dip</a> and if you can't find it to make your own.&nbsp;&nbsp;
Jessie recommends her brand new podcast, <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/lazy-girl-hour/clares-birth-story-and-what-happens-when-you-get-a-new-face/">Lazy Girl Hour.</a>
Holly recommends <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HjdiohVOik">Backrooms</a>&nbsp;and to preorder her upcoming book, <a href="https://www.bigw.com.au/product/what-i-did-to-deserve-you-by-holly-wainwright/p/6101266?utm_source=google&amp;amp;utm_medium=cpc&amp;amp;utm_id=21753682927&amp;amp;utm_campaign=BIG+W+%7C+Play+%7C+PMax+%7C+Books&amp;amp;utm_term=&amp;amp;gclsrc=aw.ds&amp;amp;gad_source=1&amp;amp;gad_campaignid=21753684868&amp;amp;gbraid=0AAAAADkZkLiPxC3Y23g8nEw2tMqNMLyxv&amp;amp;gclid=Cj0KCQiA77DXBhCHARIsAHf2MNqDiKij2B3eG23MGJ2Szsjm4tXZ6WQxS6z0xsYCRlhMQfkCdkODcNEaAu6mEALw_wcB">What I Did To Deserve You</a>.
Keen for more? Check out the <a href="https://substack.com/@mamamiaoutloud">Mamamia Out Loud newsletter</a>.
What To Listen To Next:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">Listen to our latest episode: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/the-things-we-did-before-9am/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Everything Jessie Stephens Did Before Getting To Work</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/craig-silvey-9000-word-essay/">Craig Silvey Pleaded Guilty. Then Published A 9000-Word &lsquo;Apology&rsquo;.</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/kristen-bell-dax-shepard-nobody-wants-this/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Kristen, Dax &amp; Nobody Wants This</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/jennifer-lawrence-s-hot-mum-rebrand-the-3-day-panic-you-can-ignore/">Jennifer Lawrence&rsquo;s &lsquo;Hot Mum&rsquo; Rebrand &amp; The 3-Day Panic You Can Ignore</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/love-gap-relationships-zendaya-tom-holland/">Love Gap Relationships &amp; It Started With An Argument About A Dish Rack</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/subs-what-the-us-midterms-mean-for-you/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">So What For Aussies If Trump "Loses" Next Week? Allow Us To Explain.</a><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/subs-low-maintenance-friendship/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"></a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/thomas-markle-allegations-meghan-markle/"></a><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/elon-musk-new-documentary?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"></a><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/susan-dell-internet-pile-on?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"></a><a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/au/channel/mamamia/id6442502456?ign-itscg=80085&amp;ign-itsct=pod_cha_mamam332_NA">Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts</a></li>
</ul>
Discover more <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/">Mamamia Podcasts here </a>including the very latest episode of <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/parenting-out-loud/">Parenting Out Loud</a>, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.
SUBSCRIBE here:<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"> Support independent women's media</a>&nbsp;
You can now watch our show in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see
<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/mamamia-out-loud/id928350893">Mamamia Out Loud on Apple</a>
What to read:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/best-book-recommendations/">'I'm the friend people come to for book recs. These are the 9 books I tell everyone to read.'</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/out-loud-hosts-book-recommendations/">HOLLY WAINWRIGHT: 'My days have been a bit sh*t lately. This book is helping.'</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/bookshelf-ideas/">Rainbow books and random piles: 14 women share how they style their bookcases.</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/a-court-of-splintered-harmony-review/">'I just finished reading the new ACOTAR book. Here are my very honest thoughts.'</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/celebrity-traitors-uk-2025/">'The best reality show of 2025 was one you probably missed.'</a></li>
</ul>
THE END BITS:&nbsp;
Check out our merch at<a href="https://www.mamamiaoutloud.com.au/store"> MamamiaOutLoud.com</a>
GET IN TOUCH:
Feedback? We&rsquo;re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! <a href="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/send-a-podcast-voice-note-467960">Send us a voice message</a>.
Join our Facebook group <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/outlouders">Mamamia Outlouders</a> to talk about the show.
Follow us on Instagram<a href="https://www.instagram.com/mamamiaoutloud/?hl=en"> @mamamiaoutloud</a> and on Tiktok<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@mamamiaoutloud"> @mamamiaoutloud</a>
CREDITS:
Hosts: Holly Wainwright, Jessie Stephens &amp; Emily Vernem
Acting Group Executive Producer: Georgie Page
Executive Producer: Keeshia Pettit
Video Producer: Matt Perry
Associate Producer: Tessa Kotowicz
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.

Australia's #1 podcast for women is where inquisitive minds come for great conversation — with an occasional side serve of chaos. Covering news, pop culture, and big ideas, plus the small stuff that matters, Mamamia Out Loud features a rotating panel of hosts, including Mia Freedman, Jessie Stephens, Holly Wainwright, Clare Stephens, Amelia Lester, and Em Vernem. It's your daily dose of conversation that feels like catching up with your funniest and sharpest friends in the group chat. It’s conversation at its most addictive.

Australia's #1 podcast for women is where inquisitive minds come for great conversation &mdash; with an occasional side serve of chaos. Covering news, pop culture, and big ideas, plus the small stuff that matters, Mamamia Out Loud features a rotating panel of hosts, including Mia Freedman, Jessie Stephens, Holly Wainwright, Clare Stephens, Amelia Lester, and Em Vernem. It's your daily dose of conversation that feels like catching up with your funniest and sharpest friends in the group chat. It&rsquo;s conversation at its most addictive.

A weekly podcast that's smart, often silly and sometimes surprising.

Mamamia Out Loud

The TV Show That Was Fun Until It Wasn’t & The New Bookshelf Rule

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/3ea926be-9be7-482a-8ac3-a44f016e43d1/clips/87765109-a84e-47f3-8c62-b4f3005e5b87/transcript