Magical RewindWriter Stu Krieger returns! With many DCOMs under his belt, Will and Sabrina continue the conversation with Stu about films he’s written including Zenon, Smart House, Tru Confessions and more!
Thank you for joining us on this Parkapper episode of Magical Rewind. We've got one of the OG's friend of the show knows where a lot of the bodies are buried.
Help to write.
Basically most of the movies that we love, we say his name all the time. I mean, we're gonna be talking about smart House, We're gonna be talking about true Confessions, We're gonna be talking about I can't even i can't even have a proof point xenon.
I'm not even.
I'm gonna let him tell us his resume from now on. It's like every time, because it's insane. He's the man who put the words into people's mouths in movie after movie after movie.
Please help us. Welcome once again Stu Creeker.
Hey, welcome back Shirt.
Yes, love this shat.
Oh that is amazing. Well, thank you for joining us once again.
So happy to see you guys.
Because we have Yeah, and we've now watched a whole bunch more of the films that you've written.
So many more.
It feels like every week we're saying either Stu Kreeger or Paul Hoan just over and over and over again.
Yep.
So I mean we just Sabrina.
Should we just jump right in because we know we want to. We want to get to as many as we can while we have you here.
Full disclosure. The only one I haven't watched in the recent past just proof Point. So if I'm a little fuzzy on that, I've had every intention of doing it this week and just life got too busy.
I understand. So we'd like to start with poof Point.
No, I'm kidding, well, well, we would love to start so one of the fan favorites, which we knew even before going in, and one that even I'd heard of before starting this podcast, because again I'm the old guy, so I'm going back and trying to learn, but it was in the zeitgeist. We want to start with Smart House, Yes, which we recapped and which we both really enjoyed.
So, I mean, I don't even know where to jump in. First of all, how did you first hear about this project and how did it take off?
Yeah?
So my relationship with Disney Channel, as you guys know, started with Xenon and I had done two films before the dcoms were a thing for them, so they knew me, they knew my work. I did the parent Trap two and the Freaky Friday remake that was Shelley Long and Gebby Hoffman. So they knew me, they knew my work. That's how I got in the door for Xenon. Then we'll get to that, yeah. But then with Smart House, it was a project already in development. There had been a bunch of drafts, and kind of what happened for me with all the projects I did for them is either I was the only writer or the last writer, and the feather in the cap being the last strat is it means you gave them the draft that they could greenlight and get into production on. So with Smart House, it was basically when it came to me, it was we loved the premise, we love the setup, we love a lot of the mechanics of it. We don't feel that yet has the heart, and that's something you seem to do really well for us. So can you kind of go back and reconfigure the relationships, reconfigure some of the underlying issues of it. And one of the things that kind of shocked the heck out of me when I went back and watched it is some of the real talk between the father and son kind of blew me away in a way that I didn't fully remember it, and I was kind of amazed that Disney let me get away with it and didn't kind of pull it back and tone it down. And so that's something I'm very proud of. But I also think it's part of why the film has resonated the way it has, because so much of them, especially now that I'm on social media, I see all that thread of oh my god, what this meant to me as a kid, or I had lost my mom, or seeing this relationship or all those beautiful things I now get to see that I didn't really know in the time or have been such a rewarding part of the smart House experience.
Well, that's one of the things that we talked about that really resonated with us was the was the quiet moments in the movie, because so often in dcoms you'll get some decoms that have great directors, great casts. I keep bashing this movie. I don't mean to continue bashing this movie, but we keep going with Dad Napped and where it's just there's no real quiet moments. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's just very let's it's a good excuse to get cover kids with slime, and again there's a place for that in the Disney Channel obviously, sure. But yeah, the thing we loved about Smart House was those moments of it was real. I mean, in my yes, the house was was robotic and it had all the cool kind of Disney effects, but then you had these moments of you know, we we this kid not wanting to replace his mom, not wanting his dad to move on, not wanting you know, wanting the family to just be there, and it was just such another layer of the film. Was that all you what was any of that there when you got the original script or was all of that kind of something that you did?
Most of it was me, I mean again humble brag, Sure, no, of course, but there was the a whole idea of like using pat and the whole montage of the fifties mom and I loved all the parody sitcoms that they did with my three.
Moms or whatever. Yeah, but you know, all of that.
I loved how they executed the vision. But that idea of trying to learn what a mom was from that, you know, those sitcoms of the fifties, that was all stuff that I brought to it, and then out of that sprang me but what's a real mom?
What does a mom really mean?
And like I said, the moment that kind of blew me away was when Kevin Kilner whirls on Ryan and says, you're not the only one who lost somebody?
Yes, And it was like, dude, damn.
I know.
I remember rewatching it going whoa ye, Like I mean, because how real is that moment? And I'm sure, like you said that the people, that is probably a moment that really stuck with kids because Disney didn't always tap into that they you know, it wasn't a fluff moment. It was straight to the point, very real, and something that kids needed to hear too, you know, because parents had a hard time talking that directly to kids as well, you know, and that and navigating a very hard and sensitive subject like another parent dying. This was just such a great moment for it to be so real, for the parent to not just worrying about the kid's emotion.
Yeah, I think we touched on it last time, but I was saying that, you know, in my entire experience with the Disney Channel, my personal mandate was I'm not going.
To do a dumb dad.
Yes, yeah, really, you know we talked about that troph Dad's an idiot and yep, pually incompetent, and so that was one thing again in this movie that was really important to me that he be a fully dimensional character as well, and that he have a point of view and he'd be able to you know, be kind and loving and be all those things but still push back about I've got my needs too. Yeah, you know, seeing it in retrospect, that is one thing I'm very proud of.
Yeah.
Now, what was it like working with LeVar Burton? Was were you did you get to collab with him at all?
Or yeah?
I was not.
I mean kind of what my m with most of the decons was I would be around for the table, read around for some rehearsals, around a couple of days of shooting, and then dip out because like again I think we touched on this about my aversion to being on set.
Yep.
Uh. LaVar was amazing. I mean he was just he so got it. The couple of meetings we had we were very very much on the same page. And then I had one wonderful day that I've talked to my students about so often, because I say, you will never get over the first day you get to be on the set of something that you envisioned in your head and you're going type type talk.
You know, there's screens over here, and there's Kitsen over here. And then did it.
And when I got to the set for the first time, he said, you want to come see in the Smart House and I was like, yeah, I do. I have my my daughter would have been probably like eight or nine years old. I had her with me and we were going from room to room and sitting in the big chair and you know, seeing the screen to doing all that, and LeVar was so wonderful about I want to make sure you see every nook and cranny, not just where we're shooting today, because it's all constructed on a couple of sound stages out and see me Valley.
So getting to do that was wonderful.
And like I said that, we were very very much in sync of what the movie was, and I loved how he executed it and what his vision was. But there was no kind of tug of war or conflict with any of that.
Nice's really cool.
Were you really happy with all of the inventions of the smart House, Like, was there anything when you went up they could have done that better? Or was it just like, yes, they totally did it just as I wanted.
No, they dailed it.
I think for me the moment was when I saw the dailies of the big arm coming out and grabbing the newspaper.
Yes again, you.
Know, you're always very aware of their budgets and what they're going to be able to do and not do. And with that, I thought all of the effects really worked, and all the big screen stuff and yeah.
I think the only one we picked apart was with the Oranges and we're like, how is she getting the produce under the You gotta remember it's a Disney movie.
Sparkle and pixie dust on some of this stuff. Of course?
Was it?
Was it a big win when you found out that Katie Siegal was going to be playing the role.
Absolutely, How did she.
Get involved in it?
I do not remember.
I mean, I'm assuming because it was not a decision I was involved in it initially that it was just the casting people going hey, let's try right, And then I got the word she's.
In and it was like, guess she is.
That's cool, And she actually was working the day that we visited the set, so I got to read her and she was in the full Patrick Galea and I have a picture somewhere of being in her with the apron and the hole smash.
Oh that's great, that's amazing, very fun.
Then.
So one of the other things we notice is that, of course it's Disney. They love their synergy, so they had there's the scene with Bewitched the group popping up. Is that something where they come to you and say, hey, this band has to be in there some way, or is it just righte a pop band and.
We'll get somebody to come in and be the pop band. How does that work?
Yeah, that's really the second choice. Okay, okay, construct the scene so there is a band involved.
And then they just go and try to find a band.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
Interesting.
I always wondered if they came in, like we're trying to release, trying to get this band out, make it Bewitched, But no, they just say make it a pop band and.
Go from that they whoever they can get to.
Yeah.
Sometimes, like with cow Bells, Allie and A J were already attached when I got involved in that project.
Yeah.
Times it work the other way of you know, we're doing a movie for them, right it it's fini laar as you can be with what their stick is and kind of you know.
Okay, wait, should we stay on cow I want to jump? Do we jump around?
No? Let's stay on cow Bell's Let's stay We talked a little cow Bells last time. So curiously, again, in the writing process, is this something to where already script exists and it's like, hey, Stu, can.
You can you can you stew this cow Bells script up? Or is this?
It was?
Okay?
So curiously, when you have to do something like that and you know that you've got Ali and Aj who are already attached, is where when then you take a script like that? Is it then okay, I've really got to add more to the characters that they have, or is it more I've got to really focus on just making Ali and Aj the star that Disney wants them to be.
It was really a little bit of both.
I mean I was not terribly terribly familiar with them before I came to the projects. So then I did my due diligence and saw I could see it, saw the dynamic between them. But then it was also I don't think we talked about this last time. Stopped me if we did, but but there was. It was post nine to eleven. And my thing with all of these movies was always I want to do any kind of research I can so that I have a base of knowledge. It's coming from a reality thing. How does a dairy work? How does that whole process of the pasteurization and anything they might be involved?
And happened.
So I was nosing around and trying to get a dairy that I could tour, and I got one lined up. Nine to eleven happened. They came back and they said, one of the things that we're now paranoid about is somebody getting in and poisoning the milk supply, because that would be another terrorist. We're sorry, no outsiders can come. We can't get to clearance. We have to cancel the tour. You cannot come. So I said, okay, you know, I understand, I'm disappointed, but is there anybody I could talk to? And the guy I got on the phone said, now, why were you coming initially? Because I really can't tell you anything. And I said, well, I'm working on a movie for Disney for the Disney Channel, Oh you are suddenly I'm dropping threadits And he goes, well, I really can't tell you anything, but what kind of questions did you have if I could?
Okay.
I ended up on the phone with him for almost an hour, and every time he would say, Okay, I can't really tell you that, but if I didn't tell you, this would be the answer.
Okay.
So they tried to help as much as was possible.
Cool.
So I ultimately did not physically get to go, but he was really really helpful in terms. I just had a whole page of questions and he told me without telling me.
Yeah, now.
And so from a writing standpoint, you again, you're Disney Channels usually has a pretty specific tone.
We've noticed.
The thing that's funny is that we've noticed that that tone has changed over time. We're watching movies now, like prom Pact or zombies or anything. And while there are certain tropes that they kind of hit, no matter what, they've definitely gotten more adult than they were in say the mid nineties or even the late nineties. Was there something that you tried to hit in every film you did where it's kind of it became almost your signature of you could tell this is a stue project because this happened in every film he did.
Is there a.
Certain almost I don't want to use the word easter egg, but certain stew thing you would do For every script that you wrote, there's usually.
Some homage to previous Disney movies or Disney lore. It was very, very funny because when I did Parent Trap two for them, I was I think we talked about this also a bit, just a giant, insane Hailey Mills fan and so like out of my mind that I was going to get to write a movie for her and meet her to the point we are still friends. I did that with eighty six. I just got an email from her last week because I wrote her on her birthday in April and she was given the update on the kids and the grandkids and all.
That was amazing.
But the really funny thing was so because I was such a fanatic, all of the characters in that movie are named for other roles that she played in her early Disney movies. Really her boss is Walter Elias because Walt's middle name was Elias. And then when we met, I said something about it and she goes, what And I said, Mary Grant was your character in The Castaways.
Nikki Ferris was your character some in Moonsclarers.
And she goes, oh my god, I didn't even realize that she.
Had forgotten it.
But almost every single character in that movie is named for roles she had played in previous Disney movies.
That's awesome.
So you did that along. Also within your d coms that you read.
Yeah, there would be little drops of something that was some other.
But you got to give us some of them.
Yeah, what's your favorite one's.
Or smart house that you remember?
Oh man, I have to really think back because it was always something that was, you know, again related to this, but an homage backwards.
So I'll have to think about that one. Okay.
I think I'm so curious to know what they.
Are, especially if you can think of one that we haven't seen yet so we can like look for I think, Oh, I think that's great.
I can't come with it on the spot, I'll email you after.
Yes, that's that's all we need. That's all we need.
Okay, let's let's go to True Confessions. Now.
This is one of the few movies that we talked about that was based on a novel going in so it was written in the form of a diary. How how does that change the way you approach a script when a it's from existing ip not just an existing script, but a book and then also a book in a completely different form. How do you tackle writing a script for something like that.
A couple of different things connected with that, which was really interesting backstory. At that point, I had done at least five movies for them and a producer that I had worked with on other things, and ultimately True Confessions was the first one, and then we did something for ABC Family. Oh Going Too The Map is the other one that she produced. But with this, she came to me with the book and she said, I think this would make an incredible dcom I know you have a relationship with them. Do you want to go in together and pitch it? And when I approached the executives about coming in, they said, just so you know, there have been two other sets of writers that have brought us this book that we passed on it. We're only going to take the meeting because of our relationship with you. Come in and tell us your take. And so pressure was on, Yeah, you know, we've already passed twice. But and then when Jennammemma and I went in with the book, I had already kind of conceived that again, we got to take what was a diary and make it active, make it visual, make it physical, maget all those things. So the idea of doing of law, which was a fairly new thing at that point, that Truth's going to do this as a video diary and we're actually going to get to see the process rather than somebody sitting at a desk writing. That was something that really appealed to them.
And then it was.
Kind of the that coupled with we know you, we know what you're capable of, let's go so wow, the leap of faith that you know, Like I said, they had enough trust in me at that point that we're willing to make the lead.
Well yeah, because again if they've said no twice, then it's just all based on you.
I have to imagine, should you in.
Any sense talk about having shyl A bof A is like? Was that you're like, kind of this would be a great we see this being such a great role for him.
Did you bring up him at all? That was not me.
They came back to me, but came back fairly quickly because the thing with true true is the thing that I did have done the least drafts of in my entire career anywhere, you know, Disney and beyond. Because what happened was fairly quickly. They came back and somebody, you know, and again I don't know if it was Gary Rshe who initially put Shia to the project, but they said, we want Shia in this role. And we've got this tiny little window between even Stephens seasons, right, you know, we need the script quickly and then we need to be going quickly because there's where our window of opportunity is. So from you know, first type type to production was three drafts and and then we were on the set, So I mean, all that happened really fast. And then the other incredible thing was I was in typical form. I was up there for the table read, for the week of rehearsals, for the first couple.
Of days of shooting. I bailed and came home.
And then the last week of production is when nine to eleven happened. They were in Toronto and the cast and crew ended up having to drive back across the country because there were no planes in.
The air for a month.
Yeah, and they realized, you know, we ain't getting home any time soon.
Waiting for a flight.
Yeah, they all had to do across country caravan drive back to LN.
Now does the US has change it all when it's based on another author's book or do you still have carte blanche?
I mean, how does that work?
Does the original author have any kind of say in where the script goes or no?
Okay?
Yeah, So basically is.
That they have the right to say, I'm not selling the rights to the book, right, but once the rights have been sold, have at it. And you know, being a writer, being somebody who's published two novels, I am very respectful of the source material, but ultimately you have to look at it as that's not filmic, or that doesn't make visually or how you know, you kind of have to give yourself permission to Now I have to take the essence of and the underlying heart of the material and hang under as much of it as it can, but it has to make sense filmically. And you know, this is a very different medium than has different demands and that's where my fidelity now.
Has to be sure.
And this was a project that you collaborated with Paul hoan On.
Yes, and I.
Was able to work with Paul with one of the Cheetah Girls movies. We love him, We've had him on the podcast. He's amazing, you know, legend at Disney Channel, just as you are. So it's awesome that you guys are now joining forces. And wow, did it just work on every aspect because this movie was absolutely one of my favorites to.
Watch me too, great movie.
But can you tell me about.
The process of working with Paul because I know he really loves to like dive in and include everyone, and you know Rework and Rework, So I mean you might have just had to get up to a certain point. But how was it working with him as he then jumped into his role.
Instant love affair and again we are still friends, you know, as you guys know. I don't know if you know this part of it, but three weeks from now I will be retiring, so I know. But I've had I've done since I've been there for nineteen years, a class called the Filmmaker's Life where I teach every other year and I bring in people from Hollywood to talk about their lives, their experiences, their careers, how they got their start, and Paul has done that class for me at least three or four times over the cool and we're still in touch on a regular basis, have lunch when we can. So really it was one of the greatest collaborations of my career in terms of just came.
In the room and yeah, we get each other.
I like you, you like me. You know, my wives met our kids, Matt, we hung out together. I mean, we really had a wonderful relationship and still do. But he was somebody who just same waveling, get it, got it good, let's go.
There are some some creative people that you just instantly have a shorthand with where it's just it's like, oh, okay, brother, sister, instantly, that's good, let's go.
I was gonna say there was a couple of times during production after I was back in LA where he would call and say, you know, we're shooting this thing tonight. I just went through it and wouldn't be possible if we shifted this to that Or there was one time where the location fell out and I forget where they were originally going to be, but we got to move it to a different place. Can you rewrite the scene tonight? To make it more accommodating the new location. Hey buddy, I'll have.
It in an hour.
Here you go. And you know, so like phone in facts days, so i'd have to stick up my fax machine.
Machine.
Oh man, if you had the bad paper, it really but it was the best.
It was.
It was it was still magic, Like how did I get this thing? This is incredible?
Did you find that having to write for a character with an intellectual disability? Do you have to approach that differently than you do any other character when you're writing for Disney?
Yeah, and very much Again for me, it's important whenever the subject matter, whatever the people, the characters, there has to be an authenticity to it. So Janna and I went and we went to it. It was like a residence home for folks with various degrees of mental disabilities and handicaps and stuff. So we went and spent a day with them. And I found people that were as close to what Shi's disability was and sat at the table and talked to them and talked to their life experience and do you mind if I'm Johnny notes while we're talking kind of thing, and really navigated that as carefully as I could, and so between what was in the book, which was based on the author's life experience, Yeah, and the day we got to spend, you know, with folks with similar disabilities were really informative. And then the other blessing with this project was because I knew it was shy and knew what he was capable of. There were things that I pushed in a direction of I know he can do this. I'm worried about, you know, is it going to come off as disrespectfuler in any way inauthentic? And I trusted he would get there, and of course he did.
Yeah, he did a wonderful I mean he was great, He really was.
Yeah.
Did you get a chance to interact with him?
For the week I was up there, We went out to dinner a couple of times. I was you know, like I said, I was there for the table raading rehearsals and hanging around. And then they did a premiere on the Disney back Loot. When the movie was done, I got to see him again there and cool, great, I mean he was really very funny, very energetic, very engaged, just lovely and another one that you know. For the premiere, I took my kids and he came over and I introduced them and he was smoothing with them, and.
Yeah, well, especially as a child actor, he was arguably one of the best to ever do it. I mean, and that's not hyperbole ever, He's truly one of the best child actors that's ever existed. Obviously, his adult life, the acting is still there. He's had his problems, as people can. But from an acting standpoint, I mean, you watch him at sixteen and almost every other actor at sixteen, and you just go, oh, they're working on completely different levels. So yeah, quite he really took that role and made it very special. But now we're going to come to the one that you said you knew the most about. Backwards Forward, Sideways remember everything about it.
Let's talk poof point. So it's a time.
Travel movie that first aired on September fourteenth, two thousand and one. Do you remember kind of what it was like having a movie coming out so close to nine to eleven?
I mean, what was what was that like?
It really was.
I mean, we were all still so in shell shock of what world do we now in habit that I think everybody was clinging for anything that was a little bit positive and a little bit you know, take your mind off it for a couple hours. So sure, aspect of it was very positive, But at the same time, it was just that surreal life goes on and these things are happening. But it didn't have the same kind of celebratory launch that some of the other ones did. So I'm ninety nine percent sure there wasn't a screening Brasina on Smart House, True Confessions we had on the back lot with castin krew and did all that.
I don't remember any.
Event connected the Proof Point because of the timing of all of that.
Sure, was this also a script that you you came in last or were you first on this one? You came in last on this one, So I have a question, So I'm just full disclosure. Poof Point was not my favorite of the of the films we've seen. Have you ever gotten a project and you don't have to say the name of it, but have you ever gotten a project? And kind of said, I'll do what I can, but I don't know how much can be done with this one.
Yes, And there was also I mean there was one for them and then a couple outside of them for my career where I would get it and just go, I can't make this better.
Right.
I was secure enough.
And working enough that when I genuinely felt that, it was like, I respectfully decline, you know, even getting involved because I can't make it better. And I'm not somebody that's going to do the money grab and give you a half a job. It's like, if I'm doing it, I'm doing it because I believe that I can put it across the finish line. And so there was one in particular for them where I just went good luck, right, And like I said, a couple outside things, there was one project, if I could digress for just a second, least a project. And they called and they said, we bought the rights to this for a million dollars. We think it needs a page one rewrite. Will you take a crack at it? So already I'm like, you paid a million dollars for what? Now?
Yeah?
And then I'm reading the script and it is about a kid who becomes like an eight or nine year old who becomes a Hollywood agent.
Okay, And it was like, what.
About this would appeal to anybody in the universe? Why is this a thing to begin and why did you pay a million dollars more. It's not funny, it's not cute. If he's the best kid agent in the world, I hate this kid.
Yeah, kids won't want to watch it, Adults won't want to watch it.
Who did you buy this for?
At an age? Are not going?
You know?
One day?
I don't even a power agent. Oh did they ever shoot it?
No?
Oh my god?
And they had paid a million dollars for the specscript. And that was when I finished reading it and I called my agent and I said.
I can't do this. There's no version of this where anybody in the world would want to see this.
And I called them back and I said, you know you, guys, I just don't get it. I don't get the best version of this is.
I don't get it. Good luck to you. Yeah, never heard about it again.
Did the movie that that you kind of the same thing happened for Disney?
Did they make that movie without you? Or did they not make that.
Movie without you? Ever got made?
Okay, we don't even don't.
Even need a t if we pull in our number one Hail Mary and he says, ah, we probably.
Can't do that.
And it's really interesting because I honestly wish I had had the opportunity need to see poof Point before we spoke, because I feel the same way it is when I list, you know, for you've seen some of the social media stuff. When I get asked to name your top five Disney movies that you wrote, it ain't ever there.
Yeah, you know, I think I think one of the biggest things that's that stands out about poof Point, especially when you have something like Smart House, is those like supposed to be really cool gadgets and they're scientists, and and the way that things happen, what was done on set. It wasn't the set that that you had for Smart House.
That wasn't that didn't.
Factor to it what she's trying.
To say, Yes, thank you, thank you. It just wasn't that caliber. So it's like when you're going into that fantasy land and the set just doesn't It was not it was the set was hard to like because it was so big and that you were seeing it and it was everywhere, and they were trying to make you believe certain things that just like it was the production and you just.
It was also the some great actors doing some really terrible fake guitar playing.
Yes, that's one of the things that really stuck out to US's like.
Wow, they're not even faking guitar playing very well, you know, they know how to do it. So from your past growing up, And we might have touched on this a little bit last time, but xenon Smart House poof point, there seems to be almost an underlying sci fi fantasy kind of vibe to a lot of the stuff you do.
Were you a sci fi fantasy fan growing up?
Not at all?
Really, I think I.
Remember this actually from the last time.
Maybe I'm asking again because I'm shocked, really because you wanted to be so chic, all fantasy writers, all fantasy backer not really nothing growing up.
No, it's really interesting because you know I've talked about part of my love of the Disney movies of my era were the reason that I felt like I was the right person to be in the dcom Go To Guy. But all of those were like, you know, the opposent minded Professor, Swiss Family, Robinson, parent Trap. Those were the things that were really my you know, bread and bones in terms of every you know, Disney was on the seven year reissue cycle when you didn't have DVDs and the rest of it, and any opportunity to see those movies.
I was always there. And when they would run on.
The Wonderful World of Disney, Yeah, Front Rose Center, I was there. But so much of like the adventure, fantasy play of things I Swiss Family Robinson and then the fantasy of the parent Trap coupled with my crush on Hayley besides you know, all of those things. That was really my go to much more than I wasn't a Star Trek fan.
I wasn't okay, Yeah.
Yeah, that's so funny.
There was that the fantasy adventure, I guess is the way you're saying, like the Swiss Family Robinson, the way they did that, it's essentially it's adventure Land at Disneyland as opposed to Tomorrowland at Disneyland, which which really had more of the vibe of kind of the earlier Disney lifestyle for lack of a better term, it was that kind of occasionally it would be almost something chitty chitty bang bang, but other than that, it was really that kind of family Swiss Family Robinson kinds.
Yeah, and if you really look at my over it's families at the center of all of them. Yeah, And you know, and that's the thing that I know, that's the thing I'm most comfortable with. As I've talked about with you know, my son is four years older than my daughter, and if you watch the evolution of my movies, it's almost always an older brother with a younger sister. That was the stuff we talked about before of opening the door and listening to them and you know, closing it and going back to writing. But so the big the through line for me was always those Disney movies that I grew up, and there was an element of wish fulfillment. There was always the kid empowerment because they had the opportunity to whether it was getting the parents back together and man parent trap or you know, building this incredible treehouse and racing your ostrich in Swiss family Robinson. Yeah, you know, all of those things had a wish fulfillment coupled with the family at the center or of it. Yeah, if you watch you know, my cannon of Disney movies, that's almost central to all of them as well.
Yeah.
Curiously, what of your canon, which one was the most difficult for you to write?
Mhm, oh, good question.
Proof Point had its issues in terms of because there was I wasn't as connected to the whole situation and set up and all the rest of it, So that was a little bit of a challenge. True Confessions was the hardest in terms of.
I really want to get this right.
Right, there's a there's a way where you can jump the shark in a really uncomfortable you know, whether it's condescending or not respecting the ability of the disabled, you know, whatever those things are. It's just much more of a minefield of really, I want to get this right. I want to you know, be fair to the characters, to the really sure. I think that was more like I really felt, reason.
You have a hard time with that dad because that dad was a jerk.
Oh, I mean.
And I know how you normally are with dads and eventually it comes together and you and it's all circle around. But like hard, Yeah, was that hard for you to to like go there as far as letting him take that character to be really you know, I mean he really struggled, Yeah, and he really struggled with how his emotions, which I think is real. And I said that over and over again while we rewatched it. I think this is such a it has to be hard for every single person in that house.
Yeah, to handle.
And I think it's like real that the dad who has this high power job and then also this and you know, but was that hard for you, because I know the dad was such a huge thing for you with the characters all.
He wasn't a dumb dad, but he.
Wasn't a dumb dad, but he was. He really struggled, He really struggled.
I am carefully calibrating my response, and I'm thinking, I mean, because it actually was based on someone we know who had a kid with a disability that just could not accept it, could not come to terms with it.
It really rocked his world in a way. And as I was calibrating by answer, it's like, he's never going to hear the podcast. I'm good.
Fans too, but I don't.
But he was somebody that I observed trying to come to terms with his own son and he still really hasn't. I mean, the sun is now in his forties and it's still a day to day issue in terms of reconcile.
Wow, that relationship hard, so hard.
Yeah, So again, it wasn't difficult in the sense that I felt a fidelity to this is hard and and and not everybody gets up to speed immediately, and not everybody gets you know, gets to terms with it. And so again to make it it's just.
You just adapt, you just go. It's all you know, you go with it. That's what life is.
Didn't feel to anybody in nea great And so as long as there was some glimmer of evolution, as long as there was some you know, opening in that window for him before the movie was over, I was okay with taking that journey.
Yeah, yeah, I thought, I mean it was it made it so much again, so many of those choices just made the situation without ever going through anything like that, seem like wow, Like just my level of empathy just kept building because it was like, oh man, there's this extra layer that you don't think about, and it was just I mean, it just feels like it just did the job perfectly.
That movie was just like so good, so good.
And one of the things that's you know, so gratifying again with the social media presence of the last couple of years is people saying my dad and I watched that movie together, and I have a handicapped brother, and I had never seen a character like that portrayed on screen before, and then every time it was on my dad I would go back and watch it again and we would cry together and we would you know, it was so meaningful to us, and thank you and you know those kinds of responses, which how can it get better than that?
That's amazing, incredible.
And finally, we need to talk a little bit this time about the shirt you're wearing about this Xenon, which you said might be the favorite one that you made for the channel, but we've also heard since that it was first thought of as a TV show.
No, it's really funny because I just did an event two weeks ago that was the most wonderful because it was a room full of just Disney Channel geeks and I.
Saw the clip. I saved it.
I saved it. There you go.
And it was so much fun because what they did is they screened the movie first and then I did a Q and A afterwards. But all through the movie they were yelling at the screen and they were talking back every time.
It was like Rocky Horror Picture Show, but for Xenon.
One hundred and like the first time she makes Google eyes at Greg across the room and they're all O.
It was really fun.
And then they were all singing Jim Zim zoom at the end and everybody dumpling and clapping and singing along.
So the question you just asked came up that night as well.
Yeah, but what the evolution was was it was based on the kid's book that I think I told you last time that I pitched Eloise at the Plausa on the space station. Yeah, that's why I got the job, wrote the movie. The movie was a huge success for them, to the point of again got a brag. But when they had a party celebrating the first hundred movies, Garry Marsh got up at the beginning of it and he said, when people talk to me about dcoms, most people assume it's about high school musical and he said, it's actually not. The two movies I get asked about the most are Xenon and Smart House.
Yeah, you do, thank you very much.
So anyway, because it did so well, the sequel was ordered pretty quickly. We did this equal then the third movie was supposed to be a feature film. Okay, and again part of the reason that that movie is not great directly to your point, Sabrina, about poof point, if you look at Z three it looks like a feature film shot on a Disney Channel budget, and so a lot of the effects are really cheesy. It was really they were down in South Africa and they're on the beach one night and there's like this you know, uh windstorm basically, and like the sand is hitting them in the face and they're trying to get.
The like crew guys with buckets of sand.
The wind going and they didn't have enough time or you know, budget to postpone or whatever. But it really looks like a feature shot on a Disney Channel budget because it was conceived as a feature. It was supposed to be a collaboration between at the time Hollywood Pictures, which was a Disney Division feature and the Channel, and they got into a turf war pissing contest over who had the ultimate buck stops here with the script thing, and they became this huge tug of war and Disney Channel was it's our property, we developed it, we get the final say, and they're like, but we're the Feature Division.
We get the.
Final say, and eventually they went, we're going to agree to disagree, take a movie and go home, and point it was like, well, we're this committed, We're making it as a Disney Channel movie, but we don't have enough time to do a full on rewrite.
Oh no, so was it ever going to be a television show? And they were talking about it.
Yeah, So all.
That happened, and then I don't know the timing. Somewhere within the next couple of months, I got a call from Suzanne to Pass and Suzanne Costin, who were the producers of the three movies, and they said, we have great news. We've been picked up to series. You're the one of the executive producers and head writer of the show. We've got I forget if the initial order was twelve episodes and whatever it was, but we have an order for this many episodes of the show. Come on in tomorrow morning for a production meeting so we could start to talk about because we had pitched here's how it would play out as a series, and the idea is going to be that Xena was sent down to Earth to run a space camp to train the kids who are going to be going to space, and part of that was so it was much more sustainable on a series budget to not have to face all the time and do it all. Yeah, so we sold that that's what they bought. That's what we're doing. Come in Friday morning for a production meeting. Before I ever got to the production meeting, I got a call and said the series has been canceled.
And it's like, wait, what happened?
We were excited yesterday and this is Yeah, when I'm always talking to my students about you never get to be happy in show business.
But anyway you can play a happy character.
That's about it.
Because they were in the Disney Channel cheap, they did not have any kind of holding deal with Kirsten Sheet in the interim signed a contract with General Hospital for she has now been for twenty years.
Yeah, she's still there. It's like she's done eight thousand episodes.
Yeah, but she had sorry, the General Hospital contract, and they said we could recast, but she's so identified with the role and people so love her in the role.
We're not going to recast. We're not going to do it. We're scrubbing the series.
And that was it. Oh no, oh no, oh, that's the worst.
Yeah.
So if they had had a holding deal, if they had had a second position deal, if they had a.
Yeah, all things that they I'm sure learned lessons of because when we talked to people about Hannah Montana. You know a lot of them that the hard part was not Hannah Montana in the movie, it was what was the movie we did that was a TV show that they turned into a movie. Disney ended up having to they for whatever reason, had to get a whole new writing crew, and some of the actors had a hard time with that because.
They're, oh, no, that was that was Hannah Montana. Was that Hannah don't you remember?
Yeah, because the writers from Hannah Montana didn't then write the movie from Hannah Montana, which is why they were like, Okay, that didn't seem to really have.
The same vibe with the Wizards.
Yeah, yeah, maybe it was also Wizards that it was two Wizards was.
A different team that made it a movie, And it was like the heart and the essence of what had been built, you know, and with you with that franchise is gone because it's not the same people that were doing it. So the characters were missing a lot that the actors could feel it, you know, the producers or whoever else was around that didn't get replaced, like that's such a big deal and and it is almost worth like taking the I would say budget cut any weather it doesn't look as good, but like the heart and the essence has to be there. You cannot just like throw away characters and things that matter within the franchise and the brand that's being built each I can't.
I would give you the underline to that. I always have to like start it. Am I gonna get in trouble it? What do I care?
Movie party?
The head of development came up to me and he said, oh my god, I'm so glad you're here tonight. We're trying to reboot Xenon. And so this was, you know, a decade beyond the third movie, maybe even longer, but we're trying to reboot the franchise. I'm so happy you're here. Do you have any ideas We've met with a bunch of writers and not working so far.
Will you come in and pitch us something?
So it was I can date it because it was this time that Creed was just coming out, and I said, what you have to do is a legacy movie, because they what their idea was to have a new kid playing Xenon, and I said, don't do that, but do the legacy handoff movie like Creed did with Rocky to Creed, where Xenon's now the teacher on the space station. She's got to deal with a kid who's the mirror image of her at that age. Suddenly she's in the commander playing authority role, trying to deal with this rap Skellion that's her younger self. And then if that works, you can take that character and give her as many movies as you want. Need that transition legacy.
Yeah, hand the Torch movie. Yeah, you pass the Torch movie.
Exactly, and now you know whatever other gas the new scene is. You know, now Noble's running with the torch, whatever it is. So that's what I pitched, and the two executives in the room were like, oh my god, that's wonderful. Great, we'll get back to you. They took their boss for whatever reason, they passed, So again I'm out.
It's good, God bless you.
My life is fine because go do your thing.
Maybe six months later, the original producers to Pass and Coston call me and they say, as you know, they're trying to reboot the franchise. They hired this husband and wife team. They have a script that we're really really unhappy with. Would you off the record read it for us and give us any thoughts.
That you have.
Xenon was a clinically depressed thirteen year old. They were going to do just a complete remake, not a reboot in anyway. But now the Xenon character was passively depressed because you'd be living in space too long and deprived of all And I read the script and I called them and I said, are.
You kidding me?
Is this a joke?
There is not one thing about this that has any of the energy and the spirit the love. But you know whatever, there is no Xenon in the script at all. And they go, well, you know, we didn't really think so either, but what would you do? And I said I would dip out figure. Yeah, yeah, good luck to you.
Wow.
And it's not what they did.
That's what I did. I don't know what they did, but it never happened.
Oh man, well, oh god, well, hey, everybody takes it a different route.
I guess clinically depressed Zeno. It's called Xenon. Okay. So finally, two quick questions.
One, did you know that NASA used SETAs laptis in an Instagram post?
No?
Yes, apparently they did. So you're like.
Katy Perry Thinger, No, it wouldn't have been with it.
No, I think it's well before well before that. So yeah, I think the NASA has used CI slipedus.
Nice.
It's been to space apparently in Instagram. And the second thing I'd like to ask is will you come back again? Because we've now we still have Xen on the Zequel Z three and Freaking Friday and Phantom.
In the Megaplex.
Oh, definitely to watch.
So when we do those four, will you come back for another interview? Please?
It's okay, good with you guys.
Are you looking forward to retiring?
It's funny I have quoted to several people. There is a line into the woods from Little Red Riding, Who's when she encounters the wolf, she says, I'm excited and scared.
There you go.
That's exactly what's happening with the impending retirement. There's a lot of things I want to do, a lot of things I'm looking forward to. But I have worked for fifty one straight years. A lot of my identity, a lot of my big fat ego is all tied into.
Well, you're still gonna write though, right, Yeah.
Actually, a couple of different book projects and a possible subject idea that's floating about.
Okay, so very cool.
Definitely be doing that and we can talk more about that next time.
Okay, perfect, Well, thank you so much for joining us again and giving us all the all the awesome stories about how all these amazing movies were made and they couldn't have been done without you, so Stu.
Thank you so many of them.
We do talk to you, we do.
Like I said, just always a pleasure with you guys. So I so appreciate it.
And we'll see you next time.
All right, thank you, Stu, Bye bye.
Oh god.
I love the stories that he tells and the things that he's like. I probably shouldn't say this, but ask for it.
I'm just well, yeah, he got to lose. Like it's just like, you know, awesome, It's true.
It's some point you do have to like not always sugarcoat what the industry does and how how things work, how things, how things get built, how things get taken down, how things get pulled, you know, how it is. That's just the reality of the business and and how people.
There's a there's also a lot of times when people wanted to find the quote next big hot thing, and so to do that, they'll get rid of the thing that's worked the entire time to get them there. It's like the equivalent of you know, you've you've you've played a certain way. Now you're halftime at the super Bowl and you're gonna change everything you're gonna do and you're gonna have to win. It's like, yeah, right, you've got you doing yeah exactly. So uh oh man, what a great interview. Thank you so much against Stu for joining us, and thank you because I know he's going to join us again.
We've got we've watched so many of his and we still so.
Many him and Paul. We could just have the two of them on. We should just sit back and should just be magical rewind with Paul Ho and Stu Krieger, and that would be true.
And I love it.
Like I said, I watched I came up on my feed of him at this this event that he went to recently, and he's just like the cutest guy. And if they asked him, where does Lapitas come from?
And it's just so like you.
Could tell, especially with that franchise because he built it from the ground up.
Yeah, is like he it's his baby. He loves it, he is in it. He loves wearing the shirts, he loves repping it. You know, it's great, It's awesome.
Yeah, great.
What a writer, what a guy, what a respect Hey, if you're a decom person, he's responsible for a lot of your favorite lines. I can tell you that right now. So thank you everybody so much for joining us. Join us next time over on the other feed where we're doing a little movie called Cheetah Girls too, or in France, Cheatah Girls is what I think.
It was called. We were in Spain, so.
Okay, so it would have been Cheata Girl's Dose then, which is great.
But I'm saying in France.
It was Cheatah Girls, that's just the way it was. In Germany it was Cheetah Girl's Spy. Thank you very much. This is me being able to count to ten in several languages. But yes, join us over there, and thank you again, Stu.
What an interview, and we will see you next time. Bye bye m
