How does someone who went from "a producer with a bright future, to a producer with no future" in a matter of hours become the source for the largest crowd-fund of all time, and find themselves at the helm of the phenomenally successful TV series about the life and times of Jesus Christ? Dallas Jenkins, producer, director, co-writer of "The Chosen" shares the backstory (and all kinds of delicious details and inside scoops) on what's become my family's favorite show. Have you discovered "The Chosen" yet? ~ Delilah
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You know, there are so many things that I love about my podcast. I love I love that I get to spend more than a minute or two or three that my radio program allows to talk about a particular topic or talk to a particular guest. I love that I'm not limited, I have no limitations on what topics I can or can't cover, and that I've had the pleasure of hosting guests that come from so many different backgrounds, writers and authors, musicians, dreamers, teachers, nurses. I have talked to so many fascinating people on my podcast, Folks that are changing the world with their skills, their talents. They're innate gifts, like folks working tirelessly on behalf of vulnerable and at risk children and teens, those that are feeding and housing people in need, health and wellness professionals, book author, singers, songwriters and musicians who entertain who inspire stage and screen actors. They have all been here with me on Love Someone, and I look forward to every new episode that we are able to produce. Today's guest comes to us from the world of faith based entertainment. He's the son of celebrated Left Behind author Jerry B. Jenkins, and he grew up to be a writer, a director, a film producer. Twenty years ago, at the age of twenty five, he produced the independent film Hometown Legend and Shepherd to distribution by Warner Brothers. Remember that movie, Hometown Legend. I can't believe that's been twenty years ago. Then he's directed and produced a dozen feature in short films for companies like Universal, Pure Flicks, Hallmark Channel, Amazon, and lions Gate. But he's probably best known now as the creator, director, and co writer of The Chosen, the first multi season series about the life of Christ, which also happens to be the most successful media crowdfund of all time. And that is why I am so thrilled to welcome him to our podcast today. Since jan Jan Haynes, who is the director of Point Hope, got me and my family hooked, watching The Chosen has become a big thing in our household. I am absolutely forbidden to watch any of the episodes without my kids. There's like this golden rule that Mom can't watch an episode of The Chosen, even if we've already seen it four or five times without them. That's a temptation I've had a hard time passing up. Just between you and I. When I get off the air late at night and there's an episode that I so want to watch, It's the perfect way to relax too in the day a crazy day, but generally most of the time, I am able to resist most of the time, and so glad that I have when I finally settle in with the kids and a bowl of popcorn and we all watch it together. Welcoming Dallas Jenkins to love someone is a really big treat, and I'm going to do that right after I share some information with you about one of my amazing podcast sponsors, Annie's Kit Clubs. Without them, these conversations would not be possible. I love being creative, and I'm excited to welcome Annie's Kit Clubs as one of my podcast sponsors. As fast paced and crazy as the world is today, I love that Annie's Kids get kids off the screens and into some hands on creative fun. There's kids for all ages, even adults, from young woodworker kids to card making to knitting. Annie's has a great summer offer sec off your first month visit Annie's Kit Clubs dot com slash radio. Annie's Kit Clubs dot com slash radio. They let everyone escape into a world of creativity. Hi Dallas, Hello, Hello, how are you. I'm good, Dallas. I'd like you to meet Jan Haynes. Jan is one of my dearest friends in the world. I invited her to be a part of this podcast for one reason. She's the reason I know about you and I know about Chosen. Jan and I go away way back. We were friends in college and then we you know, when our separate ways lost touch and how many years ago, Jan to God bring us back together, fourteen fourteen years ago, and when we reconnected, I convinced her to step up to the plate and become the director of my ministry, my charity that I birth and that she has carried to amazing heights. She is the international director of Point Hope. That is really awesome to hear. When covid hit, Jan said, you have to watch the Chosen, And every time she would call me, she said, have you watched the Chosen yet? Have you found the Chosen yet? So we started watching the Chosen. Oh my word, Dallas, I can't even tell you how your projects has blessed our family. It means a lot, Thank you. Yeah, it's it's it's been a life changing experience for all of us involved, and I feel fortunate to just be a part of it. God clearly has something to say, and I feel like he has something he wants communicated to the world right now and I'm just trying to do my best to steward it. And it's it's been a it's been really cool to see. So tell me I know a little bit about your history. Thank you, jan Um, But tell our listeners you kind of have a background. It's kind of in your DNA to create amazing programming. Well, yeah, my dad is Jerry Jenkins, who's the author of the left Behind books. Last year was actually the anniversary of left Behind coming into the world, which was right around when The Chosen was really coming into the world. So it's been really cool to see two different generations kind of have a similar experience, which is my dad took the Bible, in his case, the Book of Revelation and and put it into a context of what would it look like if it was if you know, if it came true today. And The Chosen isn't a modern telling of the story, but it also takes the Bible and puts it into a context that is digestible and viewable and something that makes it a little bit more real, a little bit more personal, more human, a way to really experience it, you know. So I think that's clearly where I inherited the desire to tell stories, or to desire to take my faith and communicate it through the power of storytelling and through media in some ways. So yeah, that that is my my background. And for sure, I think the greatest thing that I inherited from my dad besides the love of storytelling, though, is just the fact that when he experienced the Left Behind phenomenon, I saw firsthand just how much it humbled him and how much how surrendered he was, and how it didn't actually become a personal thing for him or an ego thing for him. As the Chosen has started to reach some of the heights that Left Behind reached, I I just had such a great model of how to make sure that I maintain that this is not about my own work, you know. I mean, I've, I've I'm trying to do my part, but ultimately, the feeding of the five thousand uh is God's job, and my job is just to provide the loaves and fish. The first episode, I was so hooked and I thought, yeah, how's how are they going to follow that up? Each one gets better and better. Yeah, that's good to hear. I mean, but since you're using the term better and better, and I would I would push back just a bit on that, because I don't think that I'm necessarily a better storyteller or director each episode. I think that it's just we're doing something that's really unique, which is there's never been a multi season show about the life of Christ. And one of the things about multi season shows that I think is really great, and I think what has served us really well for this story is that in a movie or a mini series, when you're trying to tell the story of Jesus, you have a lot of ground to cover in a short amount of time, So you don't get the characterizations, you don't get the you don't fall in love with certain characters during needs, you don't see much of an arc. It's just Jesus goes from miracle to miracle, Bible verse to Bible verse, and you're not really emotionally engaged in each incident. You're just kind of watching it from a voyeuristic perspective, like, oh, that's cool, Yeah, I remember that, I remember that story from the Bible. Oh look how they did that. That's really interesting. Um. Whereas with the Chosen, because we have the time to introduce you to these people and really show you there before that, that's what we call the before they met actually Jesus, they actually met Jesus, and we get a chance that we were not rushed. We really get to take our time. It's not that the episodes are getting better and better. It's just that you know these people more and more, and so in the first episode, when you don't know them at all, you're kind of confused. Maybe you're trying to figure out who they are. You're trying to get to know them, like like any show, the first episode of any show can be a little bit challenging. But then once you really get to know them and fall in love with them, you'd love you. You'd be happy to watch them read the phone book. And so each episode, the more you know them, the more impactful each of these moments are. And so that's been what's so cool and unique about the show is that we are doing it in a multi season format that really gives the time to explore each of these stories to their full extent. Well, that may be part of it. But I've picked up two on the chemistry between the actors the performers. You can tell there is genuine love, respect, humor, Like you can't fake that. I don't care how good of a director you are, how good of writers you have, you cannot fake the tenderness that has developed. And it's a beautiful thing to watch to be a part of. Yeah, we really have become in many ways a family, the cast and crew. What's really exciting about it is that you know at least half, if not more, of the cast and garity, even believers. I mean, this is just for a lot of them. They range from atheists to agnostic, to journeying in their faith to two believers. We have the we have the whole spectrum, but we're all united by the desire to really to make a great show as much as possible and to see the impact that it's having. I think has been in has been life altering for everyone involved. And I think because we're part of something that feels bigger than we are, and I think we all feel lucky and humbled to be part of it, I think that does contribute to it. I think you do see a we don't want to screw this up. We don't want to let our egos get in the way. And I try to model that from the top, you know, just from a servant leadership and and humor and all of these things that that when people come onto our set, they do feel loved, they do feel cared for and seen and uh and I think that comes through in the show. So in this podcast, I'm just going to assume that most people listening have not seen the full series and now the second series of The Chosen, the second season of The Chosen. But more than that, we stay and watch you because after each episode, sometimes before each episode, you share a little bit of information and for me, that is as actful almost as the episode, hearing the little behind the scenes stories. So tell my listeners how this thing came to be, because you're not funded by one of the big you know, movie tell the story of how it came to be and how you really had to step out on faith to make this happen. Yeah, my partner in this project is a guy by the name of Darrell Leaves, and he told me early on, he said, it's one thing for a project or a show or YouTube influencer or a brand or a company to have success. But the brands and the companies and the projects and the ministries whatever that really have a legacy, and that really makes people feel like they're part of something and that they're part of a mission, or when they actually know your story as well, and when they trust you and they feel like they're on a journey with you. And so he was really encouraging me to make the as I'm making the show, to be telling my story as well, and to build our social media pages as an unvarnished, authentic peek behind the curtain of how this has made and also what it's doing in my life. And I was at first a little bit resistant to that, partially because I didn't think I had time, but also there's always that fear of what it's not about me, you know, I want I want people just to enjoy the show or to be impacted by the stories. But he said, no, that's it's actually it actually can be an enhancing part of the process. So the reason I say that is just to explain kind of where the decision came from to show this journey from the beginning. And people have said, like what you just said, which is for a lot of them, not everybody. Some people don't care about me and just want to watch the episodes, and that's completely fine. But for a lot of people seeing my story, seeing my wife's story, seeing how we went from failure from a very low point. I mean, this show was birthed from failure. I had just had a big career failure. My movie had bombed at the box office. I went from the director with a bright future to a director with no future, and to suspend of a couple of hours. I ended up pouring myself into a short film for my true Just Christmas Eve service that was filmed on my friend's farm in Illinois, twenty minutes from my house. And that thing, that little short film I did about the birth of Christ is the catalyst. Is the the quote unquote proof of concept that ultimately went out on social media and generated over ten million dollars from nineteen thoud people around the world who crowdfunded Season one. That is mind blowing. The first time something that magnitude has happened. Yes, it's the number one all time crowdfunded media project of all time. I love that. I don't think Dallas it would be what it is had you been a huge success with your last movie. Had you been writing that high Oh, that's that's unarguable. I mean, I think, first of all, just from a purely logistical perspective, if my last movie had succeeded, I would not be making the show because I'd be doing other movies. That was the plan with all these Hollywood companies was who We're gonna do this movie, that they're gonna do five more movies over the next ten years. And I was set. And then they all pulled out after the first movie Bone, and two things happened. One is I think again, I became available to do what I think God was really calling me to do. But then second, I think, just even for me personally, God was waiting for me to be broken. He was waiting for me to be surrendered. He was waiting for me to truly believe it's not my job to feed to five thousand, It's only to provide the loaves and fish. And I didn't truly believe that. I was trying to control everything. And so once I was truly broken and surrendered. Uh. And and that's been part of my story and part of the story of the show. If I tell the story All the time, I show how I'm growing, how I'm failing. We just let you see behind the curtain. And for a lot of people, I think that that allows them to a connect with the show a little bit more because they trust me. But I also think that they also connect with my story. I think people everyone can connect with being in the wilderness, with being under the fig tree. Like Nathaniel was crying out to God, you know, asking if he sees him, and that was me. And I think that as they've seen us not shy away from showing our failure years and showing our struggles and those times, even after the show started to be successful, other problems creeped up and I would get online and say, look, this is where I'm struggling. What do I do? I don't know what to do next. That whole part of it, I think has connected people even more to the show. And I think that's been all part of this whole process. Well, you're doing a wonderful job and I don't even know is there a way to rate how many millions of people have been touched, have watched have Like do you have a barometer? Do you have a measuring stick? Not that it matters. I mean, well, yeah, it doesn't. It really doesn't matter in the sense that I don't actually have expectations or goals. I'm just trying to do what God wants me to do, and I wanted my My goal is to introduce the authentic Jesus to the world. And the way we phrase it is we want to introduce the authentic Jesus to a billion people. But the billion people goal is more just like a symbol. It's a representation of the fact that we want people to spread the word we want like jam for you, your friend jan who told you to watch the show. She was like Philip do or Nathaniel. You know in the Gospels, Philip goes to Nathaniel and says, come in, see those three words that I think are three of the most powerful words in all of the Scripture. And Nathaniel's responses, Oh, can anything good come out of Nazareth? I mean, he just doesn't believe it. So many people were hesitant to watch The Chosen because they thought, can anything good come out of Christian media? But there's always a Philip who says, no, just just watch it, just come and see. We want to encourage people to go and tell others and to spread the word and say, come and see this is how the show has impacted my life. But right now, so far, we know how many views there have been, how many people have watched the show in some form, and it's approaching a hundred and seventy million or so. How many people that is, we don't know for sure because so many people watch the show together. So sometimes there's one view that shows up on our app, but that was ten people watching all at once, or nine nine nine in our living exactly. Or you know, we saw a picture from Nigeria where there's this whole group of Nigerians who watched the show all at once, and then there's other people who've watched the show twenty five times, even though it's one person. So we don't know exactly how many people it is. What we do know that it's in every country in the world. We know that we've heard from people in countries like Iran and China who said that because of the app was free and accessible, they could they could have an experience with the scripture or at least the stories of the scriptures that have driven them closer to the Bible, which they would have been able to do otherwise if it wasn't on this app, that could just get directly to their phone. So the numbers don't matter on one sense, but another sense, they do represent lives touched, and that really is what it's all about. Well, I am so excited to talk to you and so proud to get to talk about this because, like I said it, it's really been a gift to our family, especially during the COVID shutdown. I think it drew us closer. And don't tell my older kids, but Jan made me watch a few episodes in the new season. Now we've watched two of them as a family together. They don't know that I kind of cheated and my husband and I watched without them, because that would be a big betrayal. It's a family thing. I'm make sure that doesn't get out as long as long as we don't talk about it on this podcast. Yeah, and they know they don't listen to my podcast. Come on, are you kidding me? Um? And I want to talk specifically about a couple of the elements in the show. Where do you shoot it? So? Most of it has been filmed in Texas. Half of season two was filmed in Utah, there's an extraordinary set in goshen Utah that's kind of a first century recreation of Jerusalem that we used for some of Season two. We'll use that off and on throughout the future seasons. I'm also moving to Texas this summer. My family is moving because we're setting up our permanent home both for our family and for the show in Texas. We're building some sets. Yeah, Texas is the primary spot. I wanted to bring up a couple of things about the actual characters and the actual show. Tell everybody how you found the actor that plays Jesus. The actor is named Jonathan Roomy, And about seven years ago, I did a short film for my church is Good Friday Service and it was about the Crucifixion from the perspective of the two thieves. So that's when I first started doing this of telling the stories of Jesus but from different perspectives, not changing the story, just giving you a unique look into it, an a unique perspective. And Jonathan, the Jesus only shows up in the short film for about five to ten minutes and the majority of it is about these two thieves. And Jonathan had auditioned for one of the two thieves, and he did a good job. But I had these two guys who were terrific and they were the best choices. But I didn't have a Jesus. The people who are auditioning for Jesus just weren't very good at all. So I had Jonathan auditioned for Jesus, and twenty seconds into it, I thought, oh, my goodness, this is special. I mean, this guy has something. I don't know what it is, but uh. And then I remember when we were filming it. Uh, you know, the only scene we had with Jesus in this in the short film was on the cross, and I remember saying to a few people around me, this is the best portrayal of Jesus I've ever seen, and it's only five minutes of screen time. He had the tenderness mixed with masculinity, he had the heart mixed with you know, the intensity. I mean, it was really something. And so for the next few years I would do short films and vignettes for my church and we and I would cast jon you know, I would work with Jonathan as Jesus. And so when it came time to do this show, when we had this opportunity, I called him up and obviously, I mean he was the first one I cast, and I just said, so, we've got an opportunity to take the show on the road. I don't know how we're going to fund it yet, how it's going to happen, but I'm trusting that God is gonna multiply the fishes and loves well. He does a wonderful, wonderful job, and You're right, he is such a delightful mix. Yeah, he really. I think the performance is really I think a word that can be used to describe it as transcendent. I mean, it feels like I've had countless people say they they are drawn closer to Christ because of his performance. I think they have this healthy respect for the difference between Jonathan and Jesus. But it does feel like when we're when they watched the show, that there's something really beautiful happening and some thing that that is not only touching the characters in the story that we're telling, but it's touching them personally. I want to ask you about a couple other characters, Dallas, but I need to give a moment to another of my incredible podcast sponsors, the Home Depot. I am so grateful to them for supporting this format and giving us the opportunity to have this conversation. This edition of Loves Someone is sponsored by the folks at the Home Depot. Have you have the occasion to download their app yet? If you're doing any kind of do it yourself project around the home this summer, it's a reason to download this free app. Their app has a built in image search. It uses the camera on your phone to see what it is you're looking for to replace or upgrade, and gives you all options in the Home Depot store closest to you or online. Doesn't matter if it's the kitchen faucet or a power drill, the app finder gives you the options. It's just one example of how the Home Depot is helping us d I wires get more done. Download their mobile app to get started. Okay, next character that I am so smitten with Matthew, who I read the Gospel a million well, I wish i'd read a moment. I've read them several times, and I am the mother of a child. One of my three birth children is on the artistic spectrum. I never thought until the chosen you know what I met Matthew was perhaps on the autistic spectrum and the way that you have developed his character, and it's you know, sticking to scripture. He was the man who wanted everything written down perfectly, brilliant, brilliant. When we were first deciding who the main characters the show we're going to be, Matthew stuck out to us because it was such a such an interesting story to unpack, which is all we know in scripture is you know, Jesus walked by his booth said follow me. Matthew dropped everything and followed him, and he was a tax collector. Were like, wow, that's really fascinating from what we know about tax collectors at that time. So we started doing our character profile of how we're going to kind of write this guy. He started noticing some things that are interesting. You know, he's clearly a numbers guy because he was a tax collector, a facts guy. The first chapter of his book is nothing but a genealogy, and it's split up into three, you know, divisions of fourteen exactly, so he's very precise and uh. And then he shows a profession that made him an outcast. You know, he was hated by the Jews and disrespected by the Romans, and I just thought, huh, I have a lot of familiarity with the autism spectrum. It's in my family and my wife and I do a lot of volunteer work with special needs communities, and I just know it very well. And I thought, this guy sounds like someone who would be I don't know if it's a fact, but it's certainly plausible that he could have been on the OPTATIM spectrum. And wouldn't that be a really human, interesting, fascinating way to get into not only this character, but into the show itself. I felt like it's a way to kind of humanize this character and humanize the show. And it has been, besides Jesus, by far the most compelling character for people and also the most impactful. We hear from people families of autistic family members all the time who whose lives have been impacted by seeing that Jesus chose him, he could choose me, and it's never been done before. I've never seen you, I've never seen a special needs character in a Jesus project. So I feel like it's something that's just been one of the top three things that set the show apart, but one of the things that happened in my mind after you presented Matthew as perhaps somebody on the spectrum, I went back and reread the Gospels and went, all of these characters are special needs. We all have massive deficits. Uh. Jan and I worked together so well because some of our deficits are similar, so that we don't get on each other's nerves when we go. We could go to a warehouse and get sixteen eighteen twenty medical beds, you know, our husbands or our families like, oh, here they go again. But she is very very good at following through with details. I'm not right after I saw you portray Matthew that way, when I went back and reread the Gospels, are like, wow, Jesus really does love those of us that are weirdos and outcast and and I love that. Yeah. And at some point Simon in episode four, season one, he says to Matthew, You're a little off, aren't you. And of course they didn't have a diagnosis back then, so I mean, I I'm certain that they had some form of autism back then, but they didn't have a diagnosis for it, of course. And like a lot of things that we've discovered of the years. But I think that's such a great way to look at it, which is, huh, Matthew's got a deficit in certain areas, but it's just a different deficit from what everyone else has. And I think that's the story of the show, is that we really try to tell you the story of Jesus to the eyes of those who met him, so that you can identify with their problems, their question their concerns, their struggles, and then hopefully identified with the solution and the answer. And so when someone is able to say that's me, I'm Matthew, or I'm Mary Magdalene, or I'm Simon Peter, or I'm Nicodemus, then hopefully they can then identify with the answer to that problem. And that's what I think is resonating so much about the show. Those just people feel like they can see themselves in these people from two thousand years ago, and then by definition, then connect with Jesus. My next character was going to be Nicodemus. There's one scene that I've probably watched the episode three or four times now, and each time it brings me to tears. When Nicodemus leans up against the wall and realizes he can't. He can't give up the comforts of the life that he has. He's unwilling to be broken. Yeah. How many times do we do that every day? Do we have the choice to walk the path of Messiah, but we don't want to give up the comforts? Yeah, And I think sometimes those comforts are those idols that we have in our life look different and they're they're not as obvious, you know. Sometimes it's an obvious one, like someone's an alcoholic and they just can't get over their addiction and it just keeps them from from God. Sometimes it's pride, sometimes it's comforts. Sometimes it's a relationship. Sometimes it's golf, sometimes it's money, whatever it is. And we we just portrayed Nicodemus. We saw in scripture that he met Jesus at night, which was indicates that he did it on purpose to be hidden. I mean, we saw that he believed. He actually says, you know, you must be from God because of all the things like he he was unique among the Pharisees for believing in God. But yet we don't see him in scripture following Jesus until Jesus dies. Um, we see that he you know, shows up briefly later in the Gospel of John is kind of halfheartedly defending him, but it's clear that he doesn't go public with his belief. He's just not willing to give up his status. And then when Jesus dies, though, I believe that when Jesus died on the cross, Nicodemus looked in that and went, oh, my goodness, I get it now, and he gave up everything. Then then he contributed tens of thousands of dollars and perfumes and spices for jesus burial. He publicly buried. I mean, he was he was all in at that point, and I think it is heartbreaking when you realize what we miss out on if we wait until it's I mean, I believe Nicodemus a story is ultimately triumphant, but think of all he gave up by not being willing to give up something different. And Jesus says that to him. He says, I know it's difficult, and I know there's a lot to give up, but if you follow me and you'll see so much more. And I think that's the message of the gospels. So what's been the hardest thing for you personally to give up? I don't know if we have enough time to talk about all of it, um but I for me, what I experienced few years ago was, at that time the hardest thing that I had to give up was my desire to control, my desire to affect the outcomes of my life, and to be willing to be broken and surrendered because each day you're dependent and giving up control, giving up future expectations and predictions and all of that has been immensely difficult for me. What I'm trying to give up now, which I'm not where I'm not doing very well, is things like time management, things like uh, you know, I really feel oftentimes the pressure of maintaining this entire project. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm the leader of it, and there's so much that I'm responsible for, and I have to be willing to give up certain things to really do that. So I'm still a good husband and father And right now I'm giving up sleep. Right now, I'm like, I'm not going to give up my my family time, and I can't give up the time it takes to make the show and to pitch the show to people and to make sure that we're marketing the show and telling my story. But I'll say'll just give up sleep, and that's not really good either. That's not a good solution. Yeah, so I got to make sure that that that the show itself doesn't become its own idol, you know what I mean. Well, thank you for spending the time that you've spent here with us today. Jan I know you want to tell Dallas something. Well, I will say that I appreciate the opportunity to pay it for it, and I appreciate the opportunity to be able to say that lives can be touched. And um, I know for sure that the Chosen is being seen in Ghana because that's her point. Hope works and that's where I've taken the DVDs two and we had little around Eastern time when a surprise surprise there might have been a second season got started. We gathered around some tablets and televisions and got to watch it there and got them caught up beforehand. So it's been a blessing on many levels. That's that's awesome. Yeah, it recks me every time I hear about some of these countries that normally and there would never get a chance to watch something like this or I can't afford it or whatever, but to know that through the power of the technology and my my partners at our distribution company who invented this technology, that you can just grab it wherever you're at, um and it's in countries like China and Iran, which you know, we've just kind of gotten past the gatekeepers and just gotten directly to the people. And that's been the coolest thing about it. So I love the fact you just strike me as someone who wants to to tell the world and show the world who Jesus say is wherever that takes you. And that's really let me. Can I just brag on my friend here for a minute. Dallas Jan and her husband have four biological children. They have adopted a number of children on top of their four bio children, and both of her bio daughters have opened their homes to kids in foster care and adoption. And when her daughters adopt or take in or foster a child, um Jan is grandma and it's not like she separates out well these are the bio grandkids, or these are this, this and everything she touches she touches with the love of God. It's pretty amazing. Well, that's that's very clear. I'm a adoptive dad myself. We have a child from Thailand, and then right now in my home, my wife's sister is here and she's got two adopted kids, and my brother has to adopted kids. I've I've always said that that adoption is the single number one representation of what God's relationship is with us. He adopted, adopts us into into his family. You know, we are adopted sons and daughters, as the scriptures say. And to see that's what true diversity looks like. That's what where it's it's it's not being done to try to check off a box. It's being done because it's literally changing the nature of your family is the most beautiful picture of it. So that's really awesome. Dallas Jenkins from The Chosen, thank you for spending this time with us here today, and I just I cannot thank you enough for the good work that you've done and for inspiring my family. That means a lot of Thank you so much. It as a pleasure and we'll hopefully do it a after season three. Al right, God bless thank you so much. Guys. After Jeanne and I were chatting about the latest episode of The Chosen. She asked me, why hadn't I ever interviewed Dallas? Yeah, why haven't you, I asked myself in reply. So I sent out at ap B to all my friends in the media world asking if anyone had any connections that could put me in touch with Dallas Jenkins. To my absolute delight, a few did, and to my further astonishment, a few days later, I found myself having an email exchange with him. I was fan geeking, I truly was. This man has brought so much joy to our family with his series The Chosen and helped us to bond in our love for one another and our faith together in such a beautiful way. Dallas was so generous with his time and his spirit. He's been so charming and inspiring, the absolute perfect guest for this program. If you have not yet discovered The Chosen, you are in for the biggest treat of your life. And there's more good news. You can watch the show for free anywhere in the world by downloading the mobile app. Go to www. Dot The Chosen dot tv backslash app The Chosen dot tv backslash a p P, or search The Chosen in your app store. From the app, you can even stream to your TV using devices like Roku, Apple, TV, Fire, TV, et cetera. Thank you for joining us today. If I sound a little giddy, my apologies. This has been a dream come true for me and for my girlfriend jan I hope you as well join me in the evenings on my radio program and join me when I have another episode I've Loved Someone m