Feeling tossed around by life? Curve-balls coming at you right and left? Let today's guest on LOVE SOMEONE help. Andy Staples, who assisted the late author, Trevor Moawad, with the self-help guide, "Getting To Neutral", sits down with me. He's here to share some insights on the method Trevor developed as a mental conditioning expert and advisor to some of the world's most elite sports performers. Shifting to neutral is a way to keep your head in the game when things go wrong - and even when they go right - to remain focused and committed to your goals. Let's all begin the new year with a few more tools to help us maintain our mental health! ~ Delilah
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Hello, everybody, Happy New Year, my friend. Welcome to twenty twenty two and the fourth season of this podcast series Loves Someone with the Lilah, where I have the privilege of having long and lovely conversations. I think we'll add a little joy to the lives of those listening. In last season, Oh my word, I had some phenomenal guest like TV and movie director Dallas Jenkins, the creator of The Chosen series, and Lee Isaac Chung of Minari Fame. Several folks who worked tirelessly to make lives better for people sat down with me, like Katrina McGhee from the American Heart Association. Oh my goodness, what a hot ticket. That lady is always on the go, always trying to bless others. Carrie Peterson of Mercy Ships, Jennifer Perry from Foster Moore, and Frank Siller, founder of Tunnel to Towers Foundation, who walked hundreds of miles in honor of his brother who was lost in even We also had Annie f Downs, who pinned the book That Sounds Fun, and the phenomenal artist and author Charlie mckasey, creator of the Compassionate characters The Boy, the Mole, the Fox and the Horse. He dropped in to talk to us, and we even had football legend Kurt Warner, who shared the unbelievable journey that took him from a supermarket stocking clerk to an NFL superhero. And then there was music. Music, music. We talked to Lee Bryce, to Tim McGraw, to Amy Grant, to Pink Pentatonics, Lauren Daegel, Billy Ray Cyrus and Fire Rose, the incrediblee talented Idina Menzel, Norah Jones with her sweet, sweet voice, Michael Bubley who Mr Boubley, oh so charismatic, Kelly Clarkson who was absolutely adorable, and Rob Thomas. Superstars one and all, but more than that, they are people, people with families, with friends, with hopes and dreams, Talented, beautiful, perfectly imperfect, people who've experienced victories and defeats, love and losses, and who take it all and pour it into the music they create that we love so much. YEP, was pretty phenomenal. Here. I love someone, and hopefully the time we spent together brightened a year defined by uncertainty and the longing that we have vers stability. That's my goal. I can't bring you the stability. I can bring you joy in the stories we tell. I'm going to try and do the same this season. We're kicking the year off by recognizing the importance of maintaining and bolstering our mental health. Today's guest is going to help us by sharing some tools to manage and overcome negativity from a method developed by a renowned mental conditioning expert and advisor to some of the world's most elite sports performers, Trevor Moad. Some months ago, we were working towards setting up this interview with Trevor, who was eagerly anticipating the release of his second book, Getting to Neutral, How to Survive and Thrive in a Chaotic World. At the time, what I didn't know is that Trevor was fighting an aggressive cancer using all the tools outlined in his book to maintain a positive outlook and live his life fully each a Sadly, Trevor has passed, but leaves behind an incredible legacy that will continue to help people to learn how to harness the power of neutral thinking to navigate the twist and the turns of life. With me today to impart some of Trevor's wisdom, is Andy Staples, his friend and writing partner. On both books, Trevor wrote about the power of neutral thinking. What does that mean? What does that even look like? I'm as eager to chat with him as I'm sure you are to listen in, especially if you've been dealing with a lot of negativity. We'll be back to do just that right after I give the proper credit to one of today's podcast sponsors. Everyone has the power to change the world. Mercy Ships as an organization dedicated to that mission and is sustained entirely by the generosity of volunteers and donors like me and you. They're an organization comprised of floating hospitals staffed with physicians, surgeons, medical personnel, and hundreds of other volunteer positions from administration to galley cooks, traveling to some of the poorest countries in the world to provide free, life changing surgeries. They make the world a profoundly better place. You can visit them at Mercy ships dot org to see how you can be a part of all that Mercy Ships does. Give go or pray. There are so many ways you can help Mercy Ships help others give go or pray that's Mercy Ships dot org. Mercy Ships dot Org. Andy Staples, Welcome to Love Someone with Delilah. I am honored. I've been on a lot of sports talk radio shows. I have to say, this is the one radio show I never thought I would ever be on. So I am honored. My mom, I used to listen to you all the time. Thank you. Tell me who was Trevor Moad Tell me about Trevor and I'm sorry I didn't have a chance to meet him. Yeah, Trevor should be the one here talking to you right now. Unfortunately he passed away in September after a fight with cancer. That is part of the book that we wrote together. We we've written a couple of books together, and so I met Trevor. Trevor was a mental conditioning coach, which you've heard of sports psychologists, You've heard of coaches, but I had never heard of a mental conditioning coach. And still two thousand eleven when I I covered college football for Sports Illustrated, and I was looking for some other story to do about the University of Alabama football team because there we pretty much written everything, and so I heard that they had a mental conditioning coach working with the Alabama football team and and shound out it was Trevor and gave him a call and we started talking and end up running a story about him and just kind of following his career after that. But but what Trevor did was he would help athletes be their best selves mentally, be the kind of people who could you know, if you were a cornerback on the football team and you gave up a touchdown, he'd helped make it where you could play that next play without freaking out. Or if you're a pitcher who just gave up a home run, he would help you figure out, how do I throw that next pitch, how do I get my mind in the right place to throw that next pitch. And he would work with these guys in their off seasons when they weren't practicing, And I wound up being kind of the one of the best friends of Russell Wilson, who's now the starting quarterback of the Seattle Seahawks, who's won a Super Bowl and done pretty much everything you can do in football. What Trevor did was was try to help those play years be ready for any situation they might face on the field, be mentally ready and it's different from being physically ready. You can lift all the weights you want, but if your mind is all over the place, you're going to struggle. That was his job. And then a few years ago Harper Collins asked him, do you think you could translate this to the average person, to the to the non elite athlete, and he said absolutely. He said that this stuff is universal. Now, this is something that can help everyone because we all go through lots of stressors in our daily lives. We all deal with things. Life throws all kinds of curveballs at us. And so if we could look at the world the way these elite athletes do, then it would help us make better decisions. It would help us live better lives. And so that's where our first book, It Takes What It Takes, came from. And then the second book that that's about to come out is called Getting to Neutral, and Neutral Thinking was probably I would call it Trevor's baby. He he came up with this concept because his father. We have to go back to his dad. His dad was the guy named Bob Moya who was a nationally known motivational speaker. He was one of the original authors of Chicken soup for the soul. He preached positivity and always having a positive outlook, positive thinking well Trevor, and this used to make him feel bad when he worked with athletes because he would try to convince them to think positively, and an elitiate athlete doesn't want to be told just be positive. They've their BS meter just runs a little too hot for that sort of thing. They want to know why everything is going to happen. They want to know how this works, Why does this work. You can't just tell them just be positive, because they're gonna say you can't. I'm not gonna believe you unless you tell me why. So I just I have to interject something real quick here. Don't you think that applies across the board to all of us? Oh a hundred? That the idea of neutral thing thinking was just Trevor watching these elite athletes. Michael Johnson, who won the gold medal in the two hundred and the fos at the ninety six Olympics in Atlanta, the guy who wore the gold shoes. He was one who helped Trevor kind of formulate that neutral thinking concept by just explaining what his thought processes were going into a race, and he had, you know, three things that that he would say to himself every race, and one of one of the things was I'm a bullet and he just he it kind of centered him. And so and Trevor, you know, watched Russell Wilson as he developed in his career, and I talked to Vince Carter, who was a great NBA player who played until he was in his early forties, you know, so just a guy who, you know, physically he didn't have what he had when he was twenty, but mentally he made up for it. And so Trevor gathered stuff from all these guys and he kind of noticed they all had kind of a commonality, and that was they were very non biased in the way they thought about stuff when we're making a decision in the heat of the moment, especially in game, and he would ask him, just pepper them with questions, Okay, why why do you do this? How do you do this? And basically what they do is they go to the facts to the truth every time they face a critical choice. Now in their world, in the elite athlete world, that credit they might have half a second to make that critical choice, so they they've dealt with a lot of stuff in practice and in our own lives. Will face critical choices that we have half a second to make, will face them that we have, you know, two weeks to make. But the way you need to look at it is the same, and that is go to the facts. Go to what you know about that situation, you know, not how you feel about it. And that that that's the part that I think Trevor felt bad because he was moving away from when his dad taught into something different. Now, if you go back and listen to his dad talk, they were actually saying a lot of the same things. And I told Trevor that at the you know, near the end of his life and at up trying to say, look, you think you're moving away from this, but you guys were pretty close together on this deal because his dad. His dad also passed away from cancer, had a much longer fight, had about a five year fight. And I remember listening to one of his dad's last speeches that he gave, and you know, he was talking about people coming and saying how are you doing? And how you answer someone who says how you doing? And he said, I'm upright, I'm on the side of the pavement and with the audience not knowing what he was fighting through at the time. But that's a new Those are neutral statements. Those are not I'm good, I'm great, I feel this, I'm sad. It's hey, these are the things that are going on right now that I have to celebrate. And so that's where the basis of neutral thinking comes from. Trevor actually figured it out. He and his um, he and his wife went hiking on Camelback Mountain in Phoenix one day and I didn't know this, but you apparently should not leave for your hike any later than say, oh, I don't know, seven o'clock in the morning, because it gets really really hot up there if you if you don't. And so they left a little too late and they were just, you go, covered and sweat and panting, and they wanted to yell each other because it couldn't remember who who decided to you know, who had to do what. That made him late and and made it where they were both you know, physically exhausted. And he's sitting there looking at the gearshift and he sees the end and he goes, that's it. Neutral. We gotta get to neutral right now or we're gonna, you know, we're gonna be yelling at each other. And that's he realized, Okay, this is this is how I need to brand this. And you know, I think when when he taught it to athletes, it was a very natural thing. They understood, Okay, I'm a picture. If I just gave up a hit, I can't think it's the end of the world, because the next hitter is coming up right now and I have to try to get him out. But I think in our own lives, I don't know if we we feel that way to lie. I think you know, when when something bad happens, we tend to just a lot of times we'll go into a hole and say, oh, no, this is awful, and only if I'd only done this, and if I'd only done this instead of just saying, here's what's going on right now, here are this, here are the next steps I need to take to either solve this problem or make it better or change my situation. And it's it's a hard thing to to get yourself to do, but once you start thinking that way, you find the world becomes a much easier place to deal with. As you're speaking, it's bringing up so many thoughts for me, and so many places, really wonderful places that I have been taught or heard the same message in different language. Because in a twelve step program that I belong to, they say first things first, So you think about what is the first step I have to take. I got fifty tho things to tackle, but first things first. When I'm caught up in that like Christmas or you know, the holiday is coming up, or this is coming up, or my kids have to do this, this, this, and this, and to get them into school, you know, after the pandemic, I had to get their shot records, and I had to do this, and I had to do this, and I get so frustrated. I'm like on a hamster wheel at three o'clock in the morning. But when I remember that first things first, okay, and and that's that's mentally shifting to neutral. Like you just said in Mom and Dad World, I think that's one of the best places for it. I've got a twelve and a ten year old, and I think back to anybody who's got kids that are close in age. You can remember when they were under five and just what it took to leave the house when you have a couple of kids, or God bless those families that have three or four or five kids and they're all young and they're trying to get him out of the house. You have to be able to think this way. And I think that's when we were at our best. That's naturally how we think. Is Okay, I have the bottles made. Do I have a change of clothes? Do I have a change of clothes for each kid? I have have the diapers? The diapers are here, the diaper bag is packed, and and so you're just starting and the U c l A women's basketball coach Corey Close told us really good story, and I realized, I'm shifting from mom and dad world of basketball. But they had they actually studied our first book. She had them during the pandemic when they couldn't get together and practice. She still wanted her players learning things that could help them on the court, and so she had her players study our first book. And so they studied neutral thinking. And so fast forward to the first season they play after doing that, and they were playing against Oregon. They're winning, they were winning by a lot, and then Oregan comes back and all of a sudden, the're not winning by very much at all, And there's a time out and one of their captains addresses the whole team and she says, don't worry about anything else. Ask yourself, what is the next right step. That's it. Take stock of this situation and find the next right step, which I thought was brilliant and we actually made a chapter out of it. One of the things that I know you talk about, or Trevor talked about and you wrote about, is catalog young or um really being clear on what your core values are. And I know so many people who don't even have a clue what their core values are. You meet me, you spend an hour with me, you will know what my core values are, what my faith is, what my family means to me, what my career means to me, what my mission is on the radio every day, round the podcast every day. But I think a lot of people don't have a clue what those core values are that make them tick, that motivate them, that get them up and get them going every day. And I love that that you talk about identifying those and owning them. That was a big to Trevor to to have that chapter in the book, and it was something that I had really not thought about when we were doing the first one, and he he explained his kind of his journey through that because he'd always been you know, he'd always had faith and he churchgoer, you know, since the time he was a kid. But he had a moment in college where he kind of questioned his faith and he wasn't sure am I on the right path? Am I doing the right things? And he had a health scare, which, strangely enough and sadly it was kind of the precursor to what eventually happened later in life. But after that, when he got healthy, he re examined his values because it given him a lot of time to sit and think what really matters to me. And everybody says, okay it well it's your family or it's faith. Well, yes, that that's pretty universal. Most of us are going to say our faith in our family. And but one of the other things that really mess for some people, it may be your fitness. It maybe you know, you you want to make sure you stay in shape, you want to make sure you exercise. That may be a key thing for you. Maybe artistic expression for some people. You you know, you may need an outlet where where you maybe you need to pain, or you need to write, or you need to do something that that kind of fulfills your soul. Every everybody needs to take stock of that, and that stuff changes over the course of your life. It's sort of like, you know, when when you're married and I've been married for for over twenty years now, and I somebody told my wife and I and I thought this was was really smart. The person you married twenty years ago, it's probably not the person you're married to now, and you have to make sure that that you can deal with that person and that person can deal with you. And it's the same for yourself. You're not the same person you were ten years ago, fifteen years ago, twenty years ago. Your values may be completely different. You know, twenty years ago I didn't have any kids, My my priorities, values were very different. But now they are absolutely my number one priority. They they are the thing I value most in the whole world. And so it is important to take stock, i'd say, every couple of years what matters to me, and then you you sort of point your behaviors towards what truly matters to you so that you're getting the most out of your life. I think one thing that I noted when I was going through the notes on the book is that you say, or Trevor said that it's important to be honest about those values because how many people when they go through those changes in life. You know, maybe you know ten years ago, fifteen years ago, the most important thing was having the Christmas event or the birthday party with your kid. And now your kid has grown and you it's hard to be honest with you know what. I want to focus on me right now? I wanna Yes, I want to travel right now. Travel is important to me, or learning a new hobby is important, or whatever that is. Um, just being honest and without judgment, because we judge ourselves the worst. You don't have to post your values on Facebook. This is all internal monologue here. This is this is strictly between you and you, and so be honest with yourself. If you can't be honest with yourself, you're gonna have a lot of problems. And so this especially because when you determine your values, your values start to determine your behaviors and what you what. You're prioritizing what you do. So if you can't be honest with yourself. You're gonna be like, well, I keep doing this trying to to fit this one thing because this is what I believe I should be. Well, you're gonna be unhappy because you're gonna fel like you're wasting time. You're gonna feel like you're kind of pointing in the wrong direction. So, like you said, it's okay if one of your values is I need more time for me, by all means, prioritize that. Add that into your behaviors. Build time for yourself so that you can have that time to mentally decompress or whatever it is you like to do that that makes you happy and fulfilled, because that is going to make you an altogether happier person. It's hard to do if you're especially like I said, empathy is such a great quality for a person to have. Even the great qualities you have can overwhelm you if you let them. And so you just everything needs to be in balance. And and so I'm one of those people who I get in these cycles where Okay, what can I do next? How do I figure this out? How do I you know what what's gonna happen ten ten years from now, fifteen years or twenty years from now. So you're a future tripper, I am, and I have to pull myself back. And I said, no, no, no, Well, am I gonna do tomorrow? How can I How can I help tomorrow? Make my kids lives better, make my wife's life better, make my wife better. That that that's the only that's the only way you can do it. And because I will just get caught looking ahead and not and I'll miss today, and it's it's a bad way to look it's a bad way to look at the world. And and you you don't want to miss anything. I had my my twelve year old the other day, said I wish we could just skip past this week and get right to Christmas vacation. And I said, when you get older, you're gonna never ever want to skip past the day because you don't get any of that back. But my mind will suck me into that place in a heartbeat if I'm not careful. Yeah. See, my problem is the opposite. I never want to skip I never want to fast forward. My problem is I like looking in the rear view mirror too much, you know, And and I think that's just as um. I mean, you're still missing out on the here and now, whether you're future tripping about tomorrow or looking back at yesterday with longing or guild tour. I wish I you know that could have been, would have been, should have been. You're still missing here and now, this precious moment. That getting to neutral part of it, because part of getting neutral is you do need to to take stock of what's happened, but you can't let it. You can't let anything in the past or the future control your next decision. We're so fortunate to have Andy with us today, who helped Trevor with his books on neutral thinking and is sharing some tips to help us be less reactionary and live more balanced lives. I'm going to talk about one of my awesome podcast sponsors for just a moment, and then we'll be back to chat with Andy just a little bit longer. Hi, it's Delilah. If you have been listening to my voice on the radio four years, then you know that I have been around on the radio four years. Off the radio, I'm taking care of my kids, taking care of my dogs, riding my horses, growing plants in my gardens. And you know what it hurts. It does My hands hurt my back hurts, my knees hurt. But when I started taking Omega x L, I noticed a difference within the first month. Omega x L, when taken every day, gives me relief in my hands and my joints like nothing else. If you suffer from pain associated with inflammation, I urge you to try Omega x L. When you try Omega x L, you will see a difference in the quality of your I feel, see a difference in your joints. I even see a difference in the way my skin feels and the way my hair grows. I killed you not. My hair grows more rapidly when I take my Omega Excel every day. In fact, if I forget to take my Omega XL for a few weeks, oh boy, do I notice a difference. Omega x L dot com forward slash love to place your order and to discover all the wonderful goodness of Omega XL. So in your own personal life, how has getting to neutral impacted it? Has it made it better? Do you? Do you find your relationships are better? Like? How has it personally andy helped you or made life better? It got me through the pandemic, It really did those early days when we were all in the house, you couldn't really go anywhere except the growth restore the pharmacy, and nobody knew what was going to happen. I just kept telling myself, I'm going to stay neutral. I'm going to decide what the next right step is. I'm gonna do that. And I said that to myself over and over and over again, and it kept me from getting too sad about the entire situation or too scared about the entire situation, because it allowed me to think, Okay, what can I do today? Because my kids are stuck here, they can't go see their friends. What can I do today to try to make this more fun for them? You know? How can I help my wife, who I work from home and have for years and years, She's having to work from home now and and has never had to do it before. So but that's that's the only thing I could do, was was just think about that next step instead of trying to look too far ahead. I always the one way I described the whole getting to neutral processes, like let's say you you say you want to run a marathon. If you say I'm gonna go run twenty six point two miles and you're super positive about it, but you haven't trained for a marathon. Guess what, you ain't gonna run twenty six point two miles. If you say I'm gonna run, I'm gonna try to run twenty six point two miles and you're super negative about it, you're like, I don't. Well, of course you're not gonna be able to do that. But if you actually train for a marathon, and you do it the way you're supposed to, where you do a three mile run and then a three mile run. At the end of the week, you do a six and then work your way up to that twenty mile long run, which by the way, is very relaxing. When you finally do that twenty mile training run, when you get to the actual marathon, the whole time, you're just going, well, I remember when I was on my twelve mile training run, this is how this felt. And when I did my fifteen mile training ru and this is how this felt. Now you didn't go past twenty in your training runs, and by then you're just numb, so it doesn't really matter, but it helps you because you can just you can go back to the facts. You say I have prepared myself for all of this. So when I adopted child number fifteen three years ago, that's exactly what I did. Really, I said, I'm I've prepared myself for this, and I've been through this, and I've trained for this, and even though I am in my late fifties, I am ready for this. How how could you not be prepared? After four you're prepared? Actually, you know you have one, you have one, you have two, you have twelve because their friends are always over and after six or seven or eight, you know. But seriously, that was I had to get to neutral because when I would get up in my head and I would start thinking, oh my gosh, you know, I'm gonna be seventy when they graduate from high school. Oh my gosh, bah bah bah bah bah blah blah blah blah blah, you know, a future tripping or how am I going to handle this? Or how am I going to handle that? Or what am I gonna do? And I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna be done with work soon, and how am I going to support a kid that needs braces? How strong did you feel though, when you said I've prepared for this? I know what's going to happen if there's a food allergy. I know what's going to happen if they need braces. The food allergy cs, the asthma yes, the special medical issues yes, the A D H D yes, the modified diets, the tutors, the braces, braces, braces, braces, I'm on, I think my eighth set of braces right now. Yeah. So, but I I understand what you're saying. When you prepare instead of freak out, it's a whole different story. And the thing is you didn't. You didn't think about it while you were preparing. Now, the whole life was spent preparing for it. It's true. There's one day you just are a great um a great verse in an old old book that came out several thousand years ago that said, says, for such a time as this, I was born for such a time as this, And that can be applied to whatever mountain you're climbing. I love you said that because so Trevor dedicated this book. Uh, and I think he knew what was coming, and he didn't tell most of us what was coming, but he dedicated to anyone climbing a mountain that's beautiful. Yeah, and I just I'm so happy that this is exactly what he wanted to be in the world. He wanted people to be able to to use these things that that he's been working on with these athletes for over twenty years. And you know, I think there may have been some fear that he may not have been able to get it out in time. And he did. Uh, he beat it, beat that deadline. And uh, I'm so glad he did. I'm honored he chose me to to write the words, and and I'm just I'm so grateful that that everybody gets to to see this and read this. And I mean, it's so much bigger than just some sports stuff. Definitely is so much bigger than sports stuff because your world is dominated by sports stuff. But like you said, when you had children, your whole, your whole values, everything changes and you realize, um, you know, maybe that that sports are not the end, but the means to an end, the means to fellowship, to team work, to um grace. You know, you can watch any game basketball, baseball, football, and you can see what players know the word grace and which ones don't, which ones are puffed up, and it's all about me me, me, me, me, me me um. So applying the principles you're talking about to life, to kids, to raising, to honesty, to integrity, to de escalation. You know, when you adopt kids out of the foster care system, you have to learn de escalation techniques. And I'm not good at it. I am not good at it because I have, you know, on both sides of my family tree. I gotta temper and so, you know, getting to neutral, de escalating, learning how to show grace and how to listen and how to come up with that next step. If every parent in America learned that, if every teacher in America learned that, how much better would our lives be? So thank you, thank you for that. If our kids would just learn that, Yeah, but they can't learn it if we don't show it. We might have to show a little bit better example first. But Andy Staples, thank you for spending this time with us. Thank you for helping to write Getting to Neutral. I think every teacher, counselor foster parent, parent child could could read this and and and apply the principles and make our world a better place. Well, I I hope, I hope everybody gets a chanced to read it, and this is this was Trevor's dream to get this message out there, and I'm just so grateful that people are gonna get to see it. Andy Staples, thank you. Have a blessed two. Trevor Mowad was the president of mo Awad Consulting Group, the co founder with Seattle Sea Box quarterback Russell Wilson of Limitless Minds, and the author of Getting to Neutral, How to Survive and Thrive in a Chaotic World, a step by step guide on how to successfully navigate adversity and defeat negativity by down shifting to neutral thinking. He was a highly thought of and valued mental conditioning coach to elite performers. A brilliant light who will be greatly missed. Andy Staples is a professional writer who worked with Trevor to create Getting to Neutral and its predecessor, It Takes What It Takes. He covers college football and all barbecue related issues for The Athletic and previously wrote for Sports Illustrated as well as other publications. He also hosts The Andy Staples Show about college football and is doing his part to carry on Trevor's legacy. I am so grateful to Andy for joining me today and sharing the helpfulness of down shifting to neutral thinking. It's so funny. After I heard about this podcast, after I became familiar with the book, I actually have had several chances to apply this. As someone who can be reactionary at times, Okay, most of the time I'm reactionary, I can certainly see the benefit of restraining and retraining oneself to ask what do I know instead of just reacting to how I feel. When I take the time to downshift to neutral, I'm a lot more effective as a parent, as a boss, as a personality on the radio. I hope that you've discovered a few gyms in today's conversation that you will find useful in your life if you did pick up the book Getting to Neutral, which can be found wherever books are sold. Life is challenging, especially now, and we react. I react. The longer we wait for the seas to calm, the longer we're going to be disappointed and discouraged. So I'm looking for tools to help me navigate life. I encourage you to look for tools that will help you remain on an even keel even in the roughest waters. As the world gets crazy and if you find that you can't well, reach out to somebody else to help. To quote from one of my favorite pages in The Boy, the Mole, the Fox, and the Horse by Charlie Mackasey, what is the bravest thing you ever said? Asked the Boy, Help, said the horse. If you need to ask for help, do it. Take care of yourself, my friend, and keep coming back for more great conversations to brighten your world because we've got oh boy, we got a lot of great podcasts lined up for you this year. Thank you for joining me, and take some time to slow down and love someone