Flash backs and Britt's frozen embryos

Published Feb 26, 2024, 7:27 PM

Hey Lifers,

It's been a Taylor Swift filled weekend! Both of us attended and had a freaking incredible time! We take a surprise walk down memory lane and flashback to Nov 2022. Hindsight is an interesting place to be looking back on a budding love story!

We spoke about sliding in to Linked in DMs on last week's Ask Uncut and today we revisit it with more opinions and a little shift in perspective!

Plus we speak about the recent changes in Alabama that classify embryos as children and the repercussions of these changes. Britt shares her personal experience with freezing embryos and how devastating it can be when that process doesn't go as planned.

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Lifeln Cut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands were never seated. We pay our respects to their elders past and present.

Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was recorded on de rug wallamut Land.

Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life un Cut. I'm Laura, I'm Brittany, and I am on the biggest come down.

People calling it PTSD post Taylor Swift Down, which I don't think you can.

I know, I don't know if you can. I think we'll get canceled for that. I went to Taylor Swift last night.

I know.

No, Laura, you went Friday night. It was come down the best night of my plumbdown.

You know, Okay, there's two types of people in the world right now, Brittany and Laura.

No.

No, there's people who have been to Taylor Swift so they understand this, and then there's people who haven't and they're sick of hearing about it, And they're the only two types of people that exist at the moment. People who were totally over it.

Well, sorry for the next thirty seconds, you guys gonna hear me say it was the best night of my life.

People who will never ever fingering something? Why who talks like this? I was giving you the one and the two? Didn't you like that? You were literally looking at me. She's looking at me like she's got two fingers, like she's figuring something. She's like, okay.

So for context, brute went last night and so she's rolled in today still with the sequence and shit in her hair.

I've got the bean to my hair steal because I was really feeling like I didn't want to let it go yet this era of my life?

What is the era? The Brittany Taylor Swift era?

But I went on Friday night and now it's Monday. I'm over the hump. I'm over the hump of the high. It was incredible. It was amazing. It was everything that I expected it to be from everybody else's hype that I had kind of you know, seen, witnessed and experienced.

But it was phenomenal.

It was better than I expected, I can say. So I went to Taylor Swift I think twenty eighteen when she was here for reputation tour, so I had seen her before. I know she's amazing, and I knew this show was going to be incredible, but it exceeded expectations. It was ten times bigger and better than her reputation tour. Like her Reputation tour was amazing, but this was just I just don't know of another artist in the world that would put on a show for four hours, non stop, with the effects that she has, the screens, the choreography, the dance. She did not stop singing. She was never paffed, like everything was incredible. I just I cannot fault it.

I was paffed and I was literally just standing on the same water brag.

When I left, I had flats on.

I was like, I'm exhausted, my back hurts, my feet hurt. And then I was like, imagine Taylor doing that for three years, you know, four hours a night, four nights in a row. Then she travels and she does it again for three years. And I was just from jumping. My arms are sore, like I've done a workout from this pumping. I fist pumped for three hours, and this.

Morning I was like, why am I triceps? Social?

Well, this is apparently why she runs on a treadmill for two hours and sings the time like for her cardio.

I think She's just incredible.

It was a very well oiled machine in terms of concert and Britain and I were just comparing notes as well, because obviously went to separate ones. If you went to the concert, you guys are going to know the moment we're talking about. But Britt was like, there was this one moment where she was sitting on her piano and everyone was screaming, and I was like, yeah, she did the same thing at the concert that I went to, So I feel like, even.

Though everyone screams the whole time anyway, no.

But there's this I mean, there was this really like amazing, profound moment which was sitting at the moss covered piano and everyone was absolutely losing it for an extended period of time and She's basking in that moment of screaming, And to me, I would think, well, the thing that I was most impressed by was how well oiled the machine was. Like every single thing she did on stage, she knew she was going to do that thing on stage. You know, it's absolutely it's scripted, it's ready to go, and she can roll it out for the next night and get the same type of response, which is incredible.

Okay, I just feel like I need to have a sit down with Taylor. I'm on the fence with Travis Kelcey was really pro Travis Kelcey, Like, I was like, okay, great, You've got this new, different kind of love that you've never experienced. You're not hiding anything now.

You don't like the guy? What did he do? He gave you the ick? Yeah, because you know what he did? What a dickhead?

Like?

You've got Taylor Swift, the.

Most beautiful, young, intelligent, rich, amazing, humble girlfriend, and you published he flew out of allegedly he allegedly flew out of Australia yesterday. He flew in for like one show whatever, flew back straight away and straight away he's been photographed gone straight to a strip club surrounded by women, like photos have gone everywhere in the last twenty four hours.

Was it a strip club or just at a club? I think said strip club? I know, I think you're conflating two articles. You didn't hear the stories here first, because I think we're gonna get ourselves in trouble. I'm pretty sure he just went to a nightclub and he was photographed with women. And then there was another article saying that Taylor Swift has bannedhim from strip clubs.

I think that two yes, a Whidy band song from strip clubs.

I just stopped believing the shit that you read, Brett.

But for a second, I'm.

Allowed to talk about Taylor's lif life, and I just think I want her to be in loved so bad. But a week ago, I was like, they're going to get married, and now I'm like, I think he's going to be too bad for her reputation and her image, which she looks after so well, and I think he's going to be detrimental to that. So I reckon she's gonna Oh my god, imagine the album I know and.

They break up. I'm ready for it. Oh my good god, all this, all the fun that was not in Megan Stop, Megan stop.

Okay.

The only thing I do want to say before we round out the Tailor Swift commentary, because I know, like I said, so many of you are sick of it. What I thought was very very cool and something that I have not seen at any other concert. We all know how sick I was with Blink one eighty two. The thing I thought was so cool about this is that not only does Taylor Swift have the nostalgia piece because she's been around now for so long making music, But she also is relating to such a young audience. So there were so many moms there with their teenage or little tween daughters. Like there was one mum sitting in front of us. She had her seven year old, her ten year old and her twelve year old with her, and the four of them were there together and all of them were Swifties, and that I think and the mom, yeah, totally because the mom was like just a little bit older than me and she had these tween kids and so all of them loved it. And I think that that's what's so cool about it, is that she's created music that's transcended to separate generations.

She doesn't have a demographic. She does not have a demographic. Her demographic is literally everyone, men, women, kids, adult grandparents.

It's actually incredible.

But it's also how the way in which she's made things that are technically uncool cool. And I say this by it so one of the things that was quite awesome about the concert, Right, you go to like a Beyonce concert, or you go to Pink or you go to literally any other very successful female pop star. Often a lot of the show, a lot of the performance will be based around what's sexy, right, Like you'll have dances on stage, very scantily clad, shaking their asses. I mean, that's why twerking became like a whole thing. And then here at this Taylor Swift concert that's commanded ninety five thousand people in a room or eighty one thousand, whatever the number was in Sydney, You've got all these dances on stage doing ballroom dancing like they were dressed in full ballroom doing this like beautiful waltz. It's just the contrast between what you would expect a modern pop star to be and the way in which she presented on stage. And it's this like things that are deemed as kind of like uncool or cool again, And I think it's the inclusivity of it that makes it like something that's quite remarkable. She has made uncool cool uncle cool and be cringe, lean into the glitter, be like a big loser with your friends and that's cool again. The friendship bracelets, Like since when is it cool for people to like make their little Bengals and then go and swap them with.

People, but everyone did it. Yeah. I had one.

Of our lifers actually give me a bracelet they made for me that said I found my penguin and it's.

Really it's really really cute. So I had like hundreds of bracelets on my arm.

I made one and then I wore it and gave it to my daughter and it says britty titty.

Yeah, Laura goes major bracelet. Didn't give it to me. The whole idea is you give your friends your bracelet.

I made a britty titty bracelet, and then Marley saw it and she really wanted it, and so now she's wearing pretty titty.

Well. I was like swapping bracelets with people in the audience, and I was like, you can't have that one because it was like my family penguin from a lifeile. So I was like, I think I broke the friendship rules with the bracelets, but I didn't let anyone.

Take even that.

I mean, it's leaning into female friendships. It's leaning into prioritizing the things that we often deprioritize, like going out, having a girl's night, spending time with your closest friends, and having something that is very I mean, on one hand, very cool, but on another hand, very very deeply dorky to lean into.

I was talking to Produce a Keisha about this, and it's so interesting because there are so many dads and men at Taylor Swift because they're either fans themselves or they're there with their daughters, their children. They're like, they're like, let's go bond, Let's go family bond. And it was the exact same thing that we saw at the Super Bowl, Like there are so many dads and men now that are bonding with their daughters or females in their life that couldn't have given two hoots about the Super Bowl and the football, you know, six months ago, and now they're so involved. Like the viewership of American football and Super Bowl and the amount of money that Taylor Swift has brought in single handedly to that industry is insane. So you're seeing this unity and this bonding in both aspects and it's so beautiful to see.

Yeah, But on the flip side of that, all the staunch football is being angry about the fact that it's changed at football. But also I do wonder what the impact will be if they break up.

I'll be disaster, It'll be a disaster. Yeah, and he'll become the most hated man in a.

Miser That's the thing.

I don't think he realizes what will happen to him if they go through a breakup.

The vilification. He'll have to go into hiding. All right, Well, produce a Keisha. You have been talking about this surprise that you have for us. You refuse to tell us what it is. You refuse to give us a hint. Yeah, both of you have tried to get out of me what this is. It takes you last week because look, I think hindsight can be a very interesting thing.

And we got a message to our Instagram last week from a wonderful listener named Molly, and I can't read you exactly what she said because I asked her to delete the messages because I didn't want you guys reading it ahead of time, because I wanted to surprise you on the podcast. So Molly was listening to an episode that we recorded back in November of twenty twenty two.

It's the week after.

You got married Laura, when I was a part of Suck and Sweet, and she just said, this is so funny now listening to this episode knowing how things have transpired. So this is what went down in November twenty twenty two.

Suck and sweet.

My sweet for the week is I'm still no crushing.

I'm already No, I'm crushing hard. No, look, I'm feeling my breasts.

Okay, Sam, I am going to tell you that this is a disaster waiting to happen. Brittany, you always need me, yep, And I'm always correct this one. Maybe I need some support every night again, Laura, there has been some that I've been supported, this new one. This is a bad idea, Brittany Hockley face. Now, I cannot believe that we have a dating relationship podcast and after three years you are still entertaining this relationship.

Firstly personally, you know I haven't a traction to people that aren't here.

Yeah, because I'm commitment fo I know I had a red flag because I know it.

I also want to make this very plea to everybody listening to this. This is I'm not being the hard ass best friend. Are you details around this?

Which you don't, But if you did, you would.

Come and smack Brittany and say you are being such a naughty little girl.

Do not try and entertain this that he doesn't live in this country, to turn on.

So that he's physically not here, turn on that you only knew him for two days and now you're in love with him.

I'm not in love with him. I'm in lust with him. It was three days and we've been speaking for a long time now, of course on social media. I can't guys.

Okay, my half for the week is that Britney never learns.

She never learns from her mistakes.

And I am so tired three years of being the responsible one.

It's too much. You're tired. But let's be real. I'm giving you content. That's all I need, and I'm learning slowly. Okay. It's not a sprint, it's a marathon marathon. To be fair, it worked out quite well for you, Laura. This time is the worst idea you've ever had. I mean very good now it's in a very good place. That was actually very funny to listen to.

Hell Also, like for anyone going back through the trenches, we don't know what we said.

I don't know who I was two years ago. I don't remember that.

I also can't be held to account for anything I said two years ago. I'm a different person.

Now I still back you. I still think you were right. I think it's just rare. I mean she thinks she was right. I mean love.

I'm so glad it's worked out the way that it has. I'm so glad that you're happy. And I love Ben. I love that you guys are together. But if you ever, if you guys don't work out and you come to me and you're like.

So I am pressure on me. So I met a guy.

He's in Ireland, and I'm just gonna see where things go, I will feel the same.

I met a guy that I actually is taking a solo scientific position in Antarctica, and I think it's gonna go well.

There's no Wi Fi there, but there are a lot of penguins. But I've only seen him for one day. I think his name is Steve. I don't know. I feeling good about it.

Sometimes, guys, sometimes you need the best friend in your life who tells you no shit, oh that was really went somewhere.

IM sorry talking about something you know. Sometimes you need.

The best friend in your life who is the voice of reason, even if you don't listen to that.

If I listened to you, Laura, where do you think I would be.

Dating someone on the street somewhere with some hool again.

No, look, I mean I am very happy to admit that I was wrong in this instance.

Well, yeah, because now I've transitioned from lust to love.

You already loved him then it was three days and you were so like you never took your face out of your phone trying to have a conversation with Brich. She'd be like, yeah, I'm listening, and I was like, you're texting Ben, aren't you. You're texting this guy. Ye, give me your phone.

I'm gonna snack him as well.

No, I don't fall in love in three days. But like, wow, that was great. Three days I just had them.

The memory just really hit me. That was the three days we didn't hear from you. We thought you died almost did.

Shit.

Okay, guys, if you're listening back to the back catalog of life on cut and you can find some other gems, send them on through. Really, just please do I like the little I need the walk down memory lane. I want to be held accountable for all the things I've said wrong. What's the time frame?

You know, in the court of law, how there's like a time period that you can't be held accountable for something.

Statutory statutories, we've had a declarate, I don't know, but I always bring it up, but it always tells me it's wrong.

And then we've had bake laws up ten years.

Ten years, guys, after ten years can't be held accountable?

What do you think ow whatever.

Statutory limit or whatever limitations something like that?

What should ours be for life on cut?

How long can we be held accountable for thoughts, opinions or advice that we give on asking.

Part, I don't think we can put that down because someone will hold is accountable for what we've just said.

In return palacy twenty eight days, you gonna have proof of a receipt.

You know.

The funniest thing I.

Remember about that time is that for some reason, that day and this never happens you Laura produced a Keisha and Maddie Jay were at my house because we had some random recording and it was this was the three days. The first day I met Ben and I was like, hey, you guys are about to go, and I was already linking up this guy. I was this guy was coming over and instead of ushering you out the door quickly, I was like Hey, guys, just procrastinate for a minute, because this guy I'm banging's coming over and I want you to see him because I just thought, like.

I just thought I was gonna show him off like my little.

Prize possession for the day, and I was never seeing the guy again, so I made you all wait around the poor guy. Ben walked in thinking it was just me, and I was like, oh god, it was everyone.

I was like, guys, can you go what I asked you to stay to look at him? And then I was like, guys, this is awkward. Please leave. I'm trying, like it's not cool. Your exact words were, you need to stay. He's so fucking hot. You've got to see this.

And so remember why we were there. It was because we were recording the episode about your wedding. Yeah, that's why Matt was there. And it's not like Ben subtle. He's like six foot four or something like this tall handsome man waltz through the door and the three of us are sitting there like.

Hello, and he was mortified.

I was like, I'm so sorry they're hanging around like a bad smell. I no, I don't remember you saying like, oh I couldn't get rid of them. I think you're like, oh, the record ran over, Sorry about that.

I don't know. I made up something because I just wanted.

I just wanted because I thought I was never seen him again, so I thought it would be really cool for my world to collide. And also in my head, I was like content, like this hot guy that I've banged, at least you guys have seen him, and then obviously here we are.

Obviously he became the love of your life and we didn't think that things would go that way, but based off of past experiences, which is why at the time, I was on Laura's side, going, you're being a good friend by telling her the truth.

You're giving her the tough love and she needs it.

Were you on Laura's side, Kisha, Yeah, yeah, most people were, except for the odd lifer who would message me and say, you're being so mean to Brittany. She's in love.

You should just be happy.

I cannot tell you the amount of you guys, the listeners who messaged me privately to tell me that I needed to be nicer to brit about you being in a new relationship, and I was like.

Everyone, everyone, let's just take a step back.

I just did COVID with Britt in another country, running around after a love and then I watched her be heart broken, decimated on the floor.

And now that's a shit on the floor. Oh you were, you were.

Literally no, that's defecating decimated. And then now out of nowhere, you've told me you've fallen in love with the guy who you banged for two nights on they are.

If you banged him for two nights, you would have loved him too, And then you've gone overseas and change.

I was like, guys, anyone who thinks I shouldn't be saying, you know, Britt, I love you, but I'm worried is actually insane. Also, and I'm not saying I am so happy it has worked out and I will absolutely be in the wrong. But to any one of whose messaged to me, I love you, but go and fuck yourself, you should be a better friend to your friends. Also, Ben maa bentu be he does I know, I know, but I want the best for you and I was trying to protect you.

He actually said, you know, when you start dating somebody and you become obsessed with everything about them, you look at it like where you look at it, you know, but I mean, like you want to know everything about someone.

So obviously he read our book, Laura, We Love Love.

He just started reading the whole book, and then he listened to every episode of the podcast, so he was listening to us talking about those.

Times, and he was like, why does Laura not like me? And I was like, oh, here we go, and he had it. He was convinced that you didn't like it.

Nah, I was just playing hard to get. I was like, I hold higher standards for Brittany than what she holds for herself.

That's how I felt at the time. But my standard was pretty hard. Ben proved himself. I just don't want to see you get hurt again.

That's all it was, is jack hammery and such a really.

Why are we rushing good all day? Thank you for that? Okay?

Can I say off the back of that, something I wanted to bring up quickly. It's something we spoke about on as gun Cut last week and it was you mentioned LinkedIn and my brain.

Went ping, ping, ping ping.

We had this question that happened and it was around so this girl she'd met a guy he'd said he didn't have social media. She tried to find him on social media, couldn't find him, and then she asked the question as to whether or not she should meddle to him on LinkedIn because she found his LinkedIn profile but he didn't have social media. Now, Britt, you and I speaking of the time of whatever the word is, statue true, that's not it, whatever limitation I think double.

I think it's longer than four days.

But we said on that episode that it was fine, you should you should go, you should message, shoot your shot one more time, or at least one time, and then see what happens.

You're attracting your statement.

No, I'm not retracting our statement. But we put up the social vid of that on lifeunca podcast or Instagram, and the overarching comments there were so many, but there was, like I would say, more than ninety nine percent of people had said don't message him. And the reasoning for that was that they were saying, if you met him in real life, if he made a point of saying he doesn't have social media, he also then had the opportunity to give you his number or give you another way of contacting him. But he just left it with a blockage of saying I don't have those things and then went on his merry way. So majority of people interpreted that situation as though, well, look, he's already given you the indication he's not interested in you, why would you message him on LinkedIn. I still don't agree with that. Great disagree with everyone on Instagram.

No, sorry, Okay.

What I will say is there are numerous times people meet each other in real life and don't swap numbers or nothing happens because they just don't expect that that's the situation.

They don't think the other person will be interested. This happens more.

Times, well they're nervous, or they're nervous more times than not. People safety net is unfortunately online, even lifers. Right, how many times I've had messages from lifers say that I saw you, literally, Hey, I just saw you ten minutes ago, but I didn't want to say hi, so I messaged you, And in my.

Head I was like, but say hi.

You must have just been around the corner from where I was right now, because you've jumped straight on your phone to say hi online because you feel more comfortable. And I understand that, and I think that that relates to a lot of people in today's dating scene. The worst thing that can happen if you, like, if you don't shoot this shot right, It's not like you've messaged him on Instagram and he's left you m right, and you've blocked him, And it's not like he gave you his number and he's blocked you.

And then you're like, I'm going to try LinkedIn, I've got his address, I'm turning up like this is just your one reach out.

I think it's fine if you don't shoot your show, if you don't ask, and you're you're not writing to him proposing marriage. If he says no, he will politely decline in whatever capacity. No skin off your back. You walk away and it's fine. But maybe there's a chance he will reply and it might be something, and maybe that situation just wasn't right.

Can I just say you guys have not changed it all since twenty twenty two. You're still the dreamer and you're still the realist I am. I You're the dreamer who's like, shoot your shot, take your chance, and Laura's like, here are the factors you need to be realistic about. This could have happened, Like the things have not changed as much as what we think they are.

And I'm not a pessimist. I'm just a realist. But also I'm with you, britt I just thought it was interesting. I thought it was really interesting the way in which people interpreted that on social media, because overarchingly the number of comments on there were all saying, don't do it. And I think it's interesting when we give our advice and feedback on ask Guncut episodes and then the majority says no, which in this case was the instance.

What I want to leave you with is when have we ever leaved down?

Brittany's like, what I want to leave you with is I'm always right. Don't listen to Laura why I want to leave it. Go Chase the footballer who lives in another country.

Good. Sometimes it works out, sometimes we'll see. Sometimes I've got to ring.

Yet. Something we wanted to talk about on this episode is the very real life Handmaid's Tale, Like it's unbelievable what is going down at Alabama at the moment. So so many of you would be familiar with the conversations that happened around Roev Wade being overturned and how fertility abortion rights IVF. All of these discussions were then handed over to the states within America. We spoke about Roev Wade when that happened back in twenty twenty two, but now there's been more changes and more advances in Alabama. So what has happened is the Alabama Supreme Court has ruled that frozen embryos created and stored for in vitro fertilization are children under a state law which is allowing parents to sue for wrongful death of their minor children. Now, the reason why this ruling has come to light is because it's all off the back of a civil suit that started in twenty twenty. So there was an incident where three separate couples embryos were destroyed.

But it's actually quite devastating.

What happened, and what seems to have kind of gone down is that a patient went in and was able to access the freezers.

Which god knows how you even do that, But that's a whole nother story.

It's insanity.

Right, they've accessed the freezers, they've been able to handle the frozen embryos of other people's families, and they have dropped them. So what it says in the court documents is that the person got freezer burns when they handled these embryos. They dropped the petri dishes, they smashed on the floor because they said like minus eighty degrees. Yeah, and they destroyed three families embryos. So this was taken as a civil suit originally for what's called wrongful death of a miner. And originally it was overturned in court because a frozen embryo can't be considered a minor, and that was the original ruling. Now this was then taken further than that. It was taken to the Supreme Court with that original ruling was overturned, and the Supreme Court in Alabama has since to find that a frozen embryo is considered to be a child, that a child is from the moment of fertilization, whether that is in the womb or externally frozen, whatever, which brings so many more questions. And the reason why this is such a I mean, it's such a landmark case, but also the reason why it is now fraught with so many problems is that it raises questions around IVF in general, around the moral liability of IVF clinics and what they do with those embryos, around the long term storage of embryos and frozen because it means you can't destroy an embryo, you can't do anything to that that would then potentially hold you liable for this wrongful death. And it also means that some of these clinics could come under what would be considered criminal charges for the way in which they're handling embryos. It's completely changed the benchmark for how IVF can be handled within the state of Alabama. And then I guess the big thing is is Alabama's only one of eleven states who have these similar rulings post roeby Wade, and so it begs the question is it's going to be ruled out across the country.

I had a little look into Alabama wrongful death and this is what it says. The party responsible for the death could be charged with a criminal offense and if convicted, they could face fines, jail time, and other penalties. Although a criminal conviction could provide the family with some sense of closure, it does not compensate them for their loss. So currently these families are trying to sue. But technically what this means is if you are convicted of wrongful death, you could face a prison sentence. This could be off the back of literally freezing five embryos and then for whatever reason, deciding not to use all or some and or one. Maybe it could be one embryo. Maybe you have an embryo that didn't develop properly and had some sort of genetic abnormalities and you decide you don't want to go further for whatever reason, or maybe you're not allowed to go further for whatever reason. That could also be seen as wrongful death.

Well, you would still have to keep it frozen forever almost or like indefinitely, because what do you you do? You can't discard it if it's considered to be a child.

I do not know what the repercussions and the future is going to look like in that capacity, But what I do know is the effect that this is going to have on women in Alabama, and hopefully it doesn't go any further than Alabama. The repercussions are so astronomical, both the financial stress and the emotional stress that that is going to put on a woman even trying to make the decision if she should go forth with IVF, because imagine the stress you already have doing IVF. But then on top of that you're like, holy shit, what if something goes wrong and I end up in prison?

See?

I mean that for me, I understand when you say, think about all the people who are considering this, but at least the people who are considering IVF in Alabama have the choice to potentially consider it somewhere else now that these legislations have come in. The people who I think are in the most gravous of situations are women who have already been through the embryo freezing process. So they already have ten or fifteen or whatever it is embryos that are frozen, and now they could be criminally liable for those embryos. The big question that they have is what are they going to do with that? Do you then wait until you've hit menopause and then have I mean go through the very costly task of having eggs inserted into you. Then, knowing that they are not going to take do you keep them frozen indefinitely, which means that you're paying storage fees for forever.

I mean.

The other big question though, here is is if you legally have to keep those eggs frozen, does the state not have some responsibility of financial reimbursement? And we were having this discussion just as we were unpacking the many complexities of this, and we were like, well, if you are outlaying a cost for what is considered to be a child, even though that child is frozen and currently in a freezer an IVF clinic, does that not mean that that child is a dependent that embryo is a dependent on you. So therefore, wouldn't there be some sort of tax benefits that you could get back in order to be able to pay for the freezing. There's just so many complications around this, and the fact that the law has changed in such a swift nature it means that so many women and families are going to be put in this precarious situation where it could be criminally liable.

I don't understand how you can change a law and then backdate it. It's like saying, on a lesser level, imagine somebody brings in and says, jaywalking in the city center is now one year fine from this day, Like this is when the legislation is brought in. So let's go back through all our CCTV footage for the last ten years and see who jaywalked, and then we're going to put you in prison for you like, no, you can't backdate a law.

Yeah, I know, but I disagree with that. And the reason why I disagree with that as an example, is that they're not backdating the law. What they're saying is that we now are clarifying and we are classifying any embryo, any frozen embryo as a child life and so it doesn't matter that it's backdated. They're not going to say, hey, well, because you last year destroyed your embryo, as we're going to criminally charge you. Now, what they're saying is is any that are now on ice need to be treated along side these new legislations.

Yes, but you make a decision on the education at that time. They made a decision to freeze, not knowing there could be a possibility again they're going to be charged. They probably wouldn't have made that exact decision if there was more information at the time.

Well, that is my problem, yes, but that is the whole thing that people are facing now. That's why this is just such an incredibly overwhelming moral debate. But I guess the real problem here is, like, because religion and politics have been conflated now within the States and that's what happened when reproductive rights was given back to the states to make their independent decisions. And there was a really interesting so like when this new ruling happened the Amendments.

This is what was written.

The people of Alabama have declared the public policy of this state to be that unborn human life is sacred. We believe that each human being, from the moment of conception, is made in the image of God, created by Him to reflect his likeness. It is as if the people of Alabama took what was spoken of the prophet Jeremiah and applied it to every unborn person in this state. It is unbelievable to me that from astern like a westernized country. I understand that there are many countries throughout the world where politics and religion are so intertwined, But for a country like America to have it so deeply intertwined that it affects women in this way, it is almost unfathomable. How many steps backwards have been taken in this You.

Said this earlier in the chat, Laura, you can go somewhere else, to another state for IVF. Sure, of course, you can go to another state for IVF. But the extra expense that takes to move to another state to do your treatment is huge because you don't just duck over, go into the clinic, put your own brew in high five and go home. It takes weeks of injections and blood tests and ultrasounds, So you would have to move to that place for whatever period of time you need, depending on your IVF needs. You would have to stay in that place, do all of your injections there. And it's so timed that you can't just keep going between states. Right, Sometimes it's every day for people, Sometimes it's every two days, every three days, whatever.

Well, it's going to be a situation where only the most privileged and only the most financially like wealthy people are going to be able to access this type of IVF treatment, because I mean, it's not What's happening now is that a lot of clinics within Alabama have paused their embryo freezing facilities. But you can still go in have eggs taken, and have IVF done without doing the freezing portion of the embryos. You can have your eggs frozen, you can have embryos created instantly. But it just means that what is going to happen is that people are going to have to do more rounds of IVF. They're going to have to outlay that initial cost more times, and in the States for an IVF treatment it's even more than what it is in Australia. It's fifteen to twenty thousand to have one round of IVF.

It is more there, and they don't get any form of rebates or government help where there are forms of rebates in Australia.

Which I think the most devastating part of this whole thing is that families who can't conceive naturally are so penalized.

I haven't spoken about this on the podcast yet, but now seems like a.

Very very perfect time.

I did speak about this at one live show at the Sydney Live Show, very briefly, but last year. You guys know you've been on my fertility journey for a very long time. You know this has been years now. I'm thirty six years old, i'll be thirty seventy in August, and I've been freezing my eggs a few times, and then I realized that I probably need to freeze embryos if I do want to have a child, and that is just not my own realization.

This is from many discussions with my.

IVF doctor and just the research that's available for my fertility and my results. I don't have great fertility. I never got a huge number of eggs, and every time I went.

Back they got less and less and less. So I made the decision.

I should say, we made the decision Ben and I to freeze embryos last year, which was a pretty big decision and I didn't take it lightly. And it might seem like to a lot of people that that came really quickly in our relationship, But I think relationships develop at different times the older you get, and sometimes when there's an external pressure, like a biological clock and like the extra fertility stress, you do make decisions.

Why and I know the reason to this, but I think for the context of people listening who have because like everyone who is a lifer has followed along so much around the egg freezing conversations that we've had. But why didn't you want to share sooner that you had frozen embryos, because that is such a big monumental thing from like a relationship perspective, but also from a fertility conversation that you left out at the original talks that we had.

It's funny because I do share everything on the podcast and well most things, and we've always said we don't share everything. But I always had this feeling because Laura and I had these discussions, are you going to talk about this that you're doing it?

Yeah, And I said, that's kind of what made the last round of egg freezing such a big deal.

And I said, no, I don't think I'm going to. I think, and I.

Guess in a way, I I told a bit of a fib to you guys.

What wasn't a fib, but it was a bend of a trick of the truth.

I said, I was just doing another egg freezing round, which it is right, it takes out the eggs. But I didn't tell you that I was making those eggs into an embryo because it felt highly personal and it was very personal to Ben as well.

And I didn't want to talk about it.

Because I was worried about the result and I didn't want to be going through if it didn't work or something went wrong. I didn't want everyone to know that I was going through it and then have to talk about the fact that it didn't work.

And this was just a preconceived.

Idea, right, Like everybody that I know in my life that has done embryos, I didn't know many people that hadn't ever gotten them. I never assumed that I wouldn't get embryos, but I was just worried that something could go wrong. And then I had already laid all the information out there and you guys knew, and then I would have to talk about it whilst I was going through something. So I was like, let's just see what happens and then I'll talk about it after the fact, Like I just want to get through this as stress freeze possible, because the number one thing is you don't stress. That's what you fertility it on just says, which it's so funny in hindsight, because you're like, this is very stressful.

Do you okay, this is a very personal question and you don't have to answer this if you don't want to, do you or have you thought about And I'm relating it back to this conversation with Alabama, Right, what if something happens where you and Ben don't work out in the way that you plan, you know, whatever that is, and you have embryos that are frozen what do you do?

That's the other pressure.

So Ben and I we only made this decision because we at this point in time we know and I feel even bad saying that we want to marry each other, we want to be together. And I always say this point in time because I almost feel like I'm buffering it for myself in case I go take of course south in the future. Because we all know relationships are a funny thing. But it is a pressure. You do think about it because it is in a way a child. It's not alive, but is your DNA and his DNA, and you've made it and it's ready to become a child. So it's really it's such a funny thing. And this is why I relate with this conversation so much.

But you do.

You go through so many conversations with the clinic and with each other about what that looks like, whether you can donate them or if one of you dies, do you give permission for the other person to use it? Do you want nobody to use it? Do you want science to have it? Do you donate it to a friend? Like? There are so many and so you go through and I won't tell you exactly I did say that my sister could use them if my eggs, sorry, my sister can use my eggs. And then I said, if I die, my sister can use my embryos with Ben's permission. So you fill out so many different scenarios, which sounds crazy but makes sense.

But when I went through.

It, so I did it twice last year, and when I went through it the first time, when I said I didn't want to talk about it in case something went wrong, I feel like that was the best decision for me, because something did go wrong, and I I had it in my head that I was definitely going to come out with an embryo, because why wouldn't you, you know, you paid so much money, and it's science, and I'm such a science woman. So I'm like, Okay, I'm doing every single thing I can possibly do to get an embryo, so it's going to be fine. And I got I did get a few embryos, and what happens is they develop the embryo and then over a six day period.

It's pretty amazing. It's like CCTV footage.

They put these little embryos in the little petri dish and there's literally a camera that monitors them. These are microscopic, right, and you can log on at any time and see it developing. It's amazing, and it develops over six days. And over the six days things can go wrong. Sometimes they don't develop, sometimes they develop too slowly. But you need them to make it to the six day mark. When they get to the six day mark. If any get there, you can do genetic testing if you choose to.

You don't have to.

I decided to do the genetic testing so that when the time comes, I have the best chance of falling pregnant. I know that there's nothing wrong that might miscarry or whatever. I just wanted to say, I'll pay the extra just to check that I have the best possible chance. So I only got one that made it to the six days. Sorry, I got one to make it to the six days, and then one didn't survive properly the genetic testing, it was two unstable. And they told me that they were like, it's not great because they can tell.

They grade them as well.

They're like, these are good ones, these are meeting ones, these are bad ones.

So I had one embryo and I felt really good about it.

I was like, you know, Ben was like, baby, that's great, we only need one, which I know you don't because one embryo doesn't equate to one live.

Birth like a fort chance oft taking.

But I did want to take that from him too. I was like, you're right, like, you know, it's fine. One's fine. Then they do the genetic testing and then it's like, I think another eight days or something later you get the results.

But I thought, what are the odds of something being wrong with that? So I was telling everyone. I was We've got an embryo. It's amazing.

And then I remember getting I was over in Scotland and I remember getting the call from the geneticist and my clinic and they said, we're so sorry.

Your embryo has a really really rare abnormality.

And I'm talking like I think there were like twelve live births recorded of what this embryo had, and essentially it's non viable. So even if it survived the pregnancy, it wouldn't survive life.

It's not compatible with life. It's not compatible with life.

So I didn't have to make a decision of what to do with that embryo because here in Australia you're not allowed to go any further, the clinic won't inject you with that embryo because they know it's not going to go anywhere. Yeah, but that was devastating. Like, you go through so much, and I know there are so many women out there that going to be listening to this. You go through so much, and you have all of science, and you've paid so much money, and your hormones have gone through everything, and you have so much hope that you're going to get what you want, and then you get nothing. And I was like, how did I just go through that? How did I just go through all of that alone too and get nothing? I was like, yeah, and then you, just like you said before, you feel so much shame. I don't feel shame, but I feel really guilty. Yeah, because it's that cliche like you feel broken and Ben wants a child, but he.

Wants me more. But you're like, what's wrong with my body?

Like, even with science, why can't I It doesn't make sense anyway. Also, there's another aspect if you like even just getting one and having something so rare, I'm.

Like, what are the actual odds of that?

Like, So I just took a breathe for a little while, and I decided to do it again because my fidelity specialist was like, look the odds of that happening. She's like, I will guarantee you basically that that will not happen again.

She's like, we can go again.

It can't happen again because Ben and I as individuals were genetically tested and this is what's so fascinating. Individually, you're genetically tested as the parents and we were fine. So that's why they test the embryos again because it's something in the formation. It's not coming from your DNA, it's the development.

Yeah, like everything, so many things have to go right for it to go right, you know, on a DNA level, but also just in terms of like how it progresses.

Yeah.

So took a few months off because I just needed to get myself ready emotionally again. Did it again, and that was when you guys might have seen Ben flew over just for that week. We sort of had a joke about it, but he flew in for like three or four days. He literally flew in for my collection and he did a live donation. So last time we used frozen sperm, but this time we were like, okay, let's try fresh. So he flew in, and he also just wanted to be there. If I got none again, he thought that I would be a mess, and I would have been.

So it was really beautiful.

So he flew in, did his sperm donation, we did the whole thing again, and long story short, we ended up with five, which is great, and then three good ones.

So three so I free that are viable.

So yeah, I now have very happy to report I have three genetically tested embryos frozen, which was like, yeah, which was really exciting. And they're graded, which is also interesting because they're like, this is.

The best one.

Then they're like this is also good, and then they're like this is like we'll use that if the other.

Ones don't work.

Like they actually put them in a grade, which is really cool.

But you know, the big thing about this, brit and like, not that I want to link your personal story back to this, but imagine if you were in a situation where that first round of embryo creation, where an embryo was created that was completely non viable with life, but could not be destroyed and could not be implanted, so you were also then left with the financial implications of keeping it on ice indefinitely because nobody knows what to do with it for fear of criminal negligence, or for fear of being punished for quote unquote killing a child or unlawful harm to a child. Like it's unfathomable. The pain that some of these families will go through and the lack of support that they have because of these changes in rulings.

Well, that's what made me so emotionally charged about this.

When I saw this come out last week, I was speaking to my sister Sherry about it, and I was like, you realize, there's a high chance if I was in Alabama in that situation that I, you know, I could.

Go to prison. It could be wrongful death first of all, or be sued.

First of all, I would have embryos that I might not ever be able to use. Second of all, I had one that had to be terminated because it was non viable. But they would see it in Alabama as viable. They would see that it is still it has still been made alife, and they would have still said you need to give it the best chance of living, even though science says it won't. Yeah, I could not imagine what those women were going through. But then there's a part of me that also relates to those three families that lost their embryo. I understand and in a way what they must be feeling, because I know how unlikely it is that I'll probably get any more.

So imagine if someone had smashed the.

Someone after what I have just been through. And people are going through it a lot more than me. They know in ten, fifteen, twenty like, there are people doing multiple unsuccessful embryo collections and IDA frowns, So I can't imagine how much worse it is for them. But if someone if I only had those three and some dickhead for whatever reason, just knocked them off and they smashed, and I cannot imagine how upset and angry and furious you would be that a chance to have a family that so many people think about their whole life and hold on to has literally just been snatched from their hands.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why these three families brought this as a civil suit and then fought it hard. I understand why they did it. But what I don't agree with is I don't agree with how the state has taken such an emotionally charged case that is such a unique case that has never happened before, and use that as the basis to change the legislation, which will affect everybody, and it affects people who now have embryos, who have gone through breakups, divorces who can't use them, who have gone through deaths, who have gone through whatever the situation is. Imagine if you are married and your wife dies and you have embryos on ice, what do you do with them? Now You've got the financial implications of having to manage the fact that you have at your widowed, but also manage the financial implications that you have embryos on ice that you can never use or you have to donate them to someone to use. And then that's another conversation around whether you morally personally can do it.

I don't know.

I just think for someone who fucking loved The Handmaid's Tale, I see some of this stuff playing out in the States, and I'm like, that is exactly where this is headed. And I know that this conversation will be very emotionally charged for a lot of people. Whether it's because you have been through the IVF journey yourself, or maybe it is because you are somebody who is deeply religious and you hold these views. I understand that you feel the way that you feel, and I know that we will receive messages from people who may be angry that we don't agree with it, But ultimately this affects so many more people beyond your personal beliefs. And I guess one of the reasons why I get so angry about this, and I think we all should be angry about this, is that when you really boil it down, the whole purpose behind this is to try and preserve and protect children. Ultimately, that's what they're trying to say. But I just think that is so dressed up, like it's such a farce when the biggest killer of children in the United States is gun violence and nobody is doing anything, well, I mean in terms of when it comes to the political powers, it be nobody is doing anything because it's a constitutional right to bear arms. And so ultimately, if you care so much about kids, do something about gun more one hundred percent.

And the last thing I want to say is to be clear, I didn't agree that this should be a cause for wrongful death. I don't agree that this legislation should be in place, But what I do say, I understand is the feeling that those families must have, the feeling that they're may be their one chance of a family has been taken away from them. But this is very evidently something that needs to be I mean, it's such a peculiar particular case that we haven't seen before. It is a situation that will have to be taken day by day, case by case. And what does the benchmark, Well, not as a benchmark, And what I mean by that is we don't know the exact surroundings of what this patient did when they came in and these embryos were destroyed. If this patient planned and maliciously broke in to open the freezer with the sole intention of destroying these embryos, then one hundred percent that person should be held accountable. But if there has been some sort of a mistake or somebody has decided they no longer want to use the embryo, how are those two things related? How are those two things connected? But now they are exactly This is why it should be a case by case situation. Well, it's time for accidentally unfiltered your most embarrassing story out favorite. I have one today that relates very much to you, Laura.

Perfect has it got something to do with feet? I actually think wrote it in it sounds like you're read it.

I feel like I'm gonna be offended now now that you've said that, I will be offended.

I recently had some delightful hemorrhoids mom life, and when getting ready forfended.

Scene and when getting ready for work one day, I took a close up photo of my anus so I could look at them properly. I then went about my day and was at a lovely work lunch catching up with an old colleague who asked to see a photo of my daughter because it had been a while. Happily, I opened my camera role when she sat next to me, staring at my screen, right in all its glory, at a close photo of my hemorrhoids on my asshole.

I quickly quickly scrolled past it. I know she saw my asshole. She didn't say anything, but you know that moment where you're like.

We all know, you all know that, we just I saw what's on the screen, But you know how you like, let's just pretend that didn't happen.

N I think in that moment, you admit it. Sorry, Sorry, that is that a hemorrhoid. No, were we going to say, no, you don't.

I mean the person who sees it doesn't the person who goes, oh my god, I'm so sorry.

I take your photos of my hemorrhoids. Scroll on, scroll on. No, No, you don't need to sit in that. That was my doughnut. Sorry about that.

I don't need to sit That's I don't know what you say, but I don't think you do an explanation of the artwork.

That you just showed her. Do you know why?

Because I feel like, now that I've unleashed my my Yeah, now that I've unleashed the conversation about my labor, I feel like these the types of accilent filters we're going to get.

Okay, all right, I have one more Today.

It was my birthday, so while I was at the local shopping center having a copy with my sister, I decided to treat myself to a chicky little massage. Unfortunately for me and my masseuse, this was a spur of the moment decision, and that morning I had put on my oldest, rattiest G string with very minimal support if you know what I mean.

Well, I'm wearing one right now I know.

As we are about halfway through the massage, the massuf moves down and massages my legs and as she goes to pop my knee out to the side, well, something.

Else popped out too. It was my right laber.

The next twenty minutes were the most awkward of my entire life, as I'm sure that she saw more than she bargained for.

Ah, Okay, I have a question. It's fine, no, but this is my question.

And I really mean it.

Why do all our boundaries and sensibilities go out the window when you're getting a massage?

And what I mean by that is, I mean she didn't know it on purpose.

No, But what I mean by that is, if you went to the beach, listen, because I do it. I do this when you go to the beach or something. If you whatever, if you cross your legs and your labyer came out, you're gonna put it back in.

When you get a massage.

There's this feeling that happens where you feel like you can't like correct yourself.

So like you know, when you're getting a message and I'm gonna have to help you. If my laby is laying out on the table, I'm gonna pop it back in.

No listen, you know when you get a message, I'm laying on my back now for those that can't see, you know how. And then they'll put your leg into like a frog position, and sometimes like I'll do your thigh if your flat pops out for some reason, Like you know it's.

A little bit there right, Like you know it's a little bit. You don't want to attention to it, but you don't. You just like, but well, nothing I can do, no there is, but you choose not to. You choose just to let it. Why do we do that instead of just being like, oh sorry, I'll just put put that back in, Like why do we just sit there and feel like we can't because you don't want to do attention to it. It's there, the flaps out, like the attention is drawn to it.

But it's the same thing as like you just showed a photo of your hemorrhoids to a person and you didn't want to draw attention to it, so you scrolled on past and pretending like it's the pretending like nothing happened.

Yeah, anyway, let's.

Talk about suck and sweet before we get our asses out of here. My suck for this week? Is that Matt this morning hasn't happened yet. Well, I mean it kind of has happened, but the effects of it hasn't happened yet.

Matt has gone to Vegas. Oh, really must be nice. He's gone to Vegas for ten days.

He's working with KO, which is a sporting channel, and he's over there for the footy.

So must be real nice. How do you guys do this division?

And you know what I found out? I found this out on Sunday just by accident. He mentioned it in front of me. So he's been employed to go over there as part of Two Doting Dads. Right, so the podcast Two Doting Dads, two dads who are doting on their children.

You know that's the whole premise of it. Right.

So Ko said, come to Vegas. You can bring your kids, and he said, Nah, they don't want to come to Vegas. That yes, they do, Matt, they want to go to Vegas.

Have you seen Miley on a blackjack table? That girl knows what's up? Made me some money? Mom, the kids want to go to Vegas.

Mama wants the kids to go to Vegas anyway. No, I actually don't want them to go to Vegas, but it do. It was an option.

Vegas is where dreams are made. In Vegas. Mommy could have been on our own for ten days. Well, he conveniently left that little piece of information. Yeah, but he is. So he comes back.

He goes to Vegas for ten days, comes back for five, and then he is taking the kids around holidays.

He's taking them away on p and O Cruz with his mum. And you don't get that either. I don't get to go on that one. I was like, can you draw the short raw.

That's my suck and my sweet for the week is that the weekend, once again, it was fucking great. Tailor switched on Friday night was a real high, leaning into the cringe, embracing all the things that are dorky and lame, and normally people would laugh at you because you're like, oh, I'm gonna put my red lipstick on my cowboy boots and glitter in my hair and I'm a thirty seven year old mum and I don't care. It was so dorky and fantastic that I loved every second of it.

My suck is so I stayed at a hotel over the weekend, as I mentioned with my friend Shannon, but I get my hallow Fresh delivered on a Sunday. That's when it comes, and that's my food for the entire week. And I had just bought all of Delilah's food, like she has really fresh meats and stuff like that. Salmon, Yeah, producer Keisha had Delilah because I was at the hotel. So I went back to my house to get the Hallowfresh from the hotel and put it in my fridge because I was like, I can't leave Hallefresh on the street for two days eight It'll be gone or it'll be off if someone doesn't take it. So I went home from the hotel, got the Halo Fresh, put in the fridge, and then went back to the hotel. And then Keisha dropped a Lilah home this morning and she's actually it was the funniest message. Hey, Bridge, did you mean to leave your fridge open and off? No, Keisha, I did not mean to leave my fridge to open and the power off as a full fridge.

And I'm like, no, Kisha, I didn't mean that. Why she goes, well, it's opening.

Off and anyway, my entire fridge and freezer is off and I'm talking.

I've never had a fridge so full of food. How full is it?

Produced kiture, It's so full. Everything everything is off.

That's really sad. It's the biggest suck.

And my sweet day Swift, you really need to wash the glitter off your face.

I think that's highlighter. I might have gone too heavy.

Heyway, guys, that is it from us. We hope you love the episode. If you did it, you can always jump on and follow us wherever you listen to your podcast, because it means that every episode will fall into your feed. And you can follow us on Instagram, lip one Cup podcast or on TikTok. And then we also have the discussion group where you can join in the conversations.

And that's it from us.

Guys.

You know the trip to yourmum, tay dad, to your dog day friends and share I love because we love love

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