Linked to metabolism and even menopause, weight gain for many over 50s seems inevitable, but is it really? We ask celebrity GP Dr Brad McKay for his take, and speak to author Jacqui Hodder about how she overcame an expanding waistline to embark on a trip of a lifetime. 

About the episode - brought to you by Australian Seniors. 

Join James Valentine as he explores the incredible stories of Aussie characters, from the adventurous to the love-struck. Across 30 inspirational episodes, Life’s Booming explores life, health, love, travel, and everything in between.

Our bodies surprise us in ways we never thought possible as we age, so in series five of the Life’s Booming podcast – Is This Normal? – we’re settling in for honest chats with famous guests and noted experts about the ways our bodies behave as they age, discussing the issues and awkward questions you may be too embarrassed to ask yourself.

Jacqui Hodder is a Melbourne-based writer and teacher who embarked on a once-in-a-lifetime trip to track turtles in Costa Rica, documenting her journey in Turtling in Tortuguero. Overweight and prediabetic, she underwent a health and fitness overhaul to help her prepare, and keep up, on the month-long adventure. 

Sydney-based GP Dr Brad McKay is an experienced TV and radio broadcaster, podcaster, columnist and author of Fake Medicine. He appears regularly on The Today Show, The Drum, ABC Radio, triple j, Triple M, has presented Catalyst on the ABC and hosts several medical podcasts for health professionals. He's also on the editorial board of The Medical Republic.

If you have any thoughts or questions and want to share your story to Life’s Booming, send us a voice note - lifesbooming@seniors.com.au

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For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast.

Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency, with Ampel Sonic Experience Agency

Transcript: 

James Valentine: Hello and welcome to Life's Booming series five of this most excellent and award-winning podcast. I'm James Valentine and in this series, we're going to ask the question, Is This Normal? I mean as we age stuff happens to us, our bodies change, things fall off, we get crook, stuff doesn't work as well as it used to.

There's nothing we can do about it, we're getting older, we're ageing. But which bits are normal? Which bits do we have no control over? Which bits can we do something about? That's the kind of questions that we're going to be asking in this series, Is This Normal? of Life's Booming. Now, of course, if you enjoy this series, leave us a review, tell all your families and friends about it.

And we want to hear from you as well. You can contribute to this. If you've got questions about things in particular that you want to know, perhaps there's some particular wear and tear happening to you. Let us know. We'd love to see if we can answer that question in the series. We're gonna look at things like menopause, gut health, mental health, lots of other burning questions.

So, think about those areas and if there's something in there that's specific to you that you'd like us to cover, let us know. And now, on to this episode of Life's Booming, Middle age spread. 

Weight gain weighs you down. Both literally, it's gonna weigh you down, slow your body down, and also mentally. You don't feel as good, you're sluggish. You probably don't like the way you look. Whether it's sitting there around your gut, or it's sitting there on your bottom, or it's making your legs fat, or wherever it's gathering.

The gaining of weight is something that we all have to face as we get older. And it's not, often not pretty. And not really what we're hoping for. So, how do you lose weight? What do you have to do? Do you have to go off to the 6am bootcamp? Do you have to just eat beans for the rest of your life?

What are you going to have to do about it? We've got two good people to talk to about this today. A regular on Australian television programs such as Today and The Project. Kiwi born, now Sydney based GP Dr Brad McKay is going to answer some of these questions and bring his medical knowledge and experience to this.

But we've also got someone who's going to tell their story, and it's a very powerful tale. A few years ago, Melbourne author and teacher, Jacqui Hodder, was planning to go on a life changing trip. She wanted to head to Costa Rica, and she wanted to volunteer to help the turtle population there, to survive and to deal with all the threats that are happening to all the wildlife around the world.

This was going to take a month. She was going to go there for a month. But it was going to be a physically demanding trip. So, she realised she was going to have to get fit and deal with this. But she'd also just had some big health news as well. It's a great story and inspiring. 

James Valentine: Hello, Jacqui. 

Jacqui: Hi, James. How are you?

James Valentine: Yeah, good, good. Now, what do you usually do? What kind of work do you do?

Jacqui: I'm a high school teacher. I teach English and I teach vocational education. And I also look after the careers in the school. 

James Valentine: Okay. Oh, you're the career counsellor.

Jacqui: I'm the career counsellor. That's right. 

James Valentine: Okay, so we come to you, and you tell us, look, you really should be a physiotherapist and then we turn out to be astrophysicists, is that it?

Jacqui: Well, the theory is these days, five different careers, not jobs, but careers in your lifetime. 

James Valentine: Well, that's kind of you. You've got whole other careers as well, right?

Jacqui: Absolutely. Yes. Done many different things over the years, for sure. 

James Valentine: And tell me, you write as well. 

Jacqui: I do. Yes. I've always wanted to write.

I've written a little book about this journey, but also written some short stories and things like that as well. So yes, quite a lovely passion of mine for sure. 

James Valentine: And it was, it was part of a writing project that led you to have to deal with some health issues. 

Jacqui: Um, the way it came about, if you're happy for me to go on with the story, I was teaching a year nine civics education class, and we had a guest speaker come in who'd been to Costa Rica, and she had worked with a jaguar project in the jungles of Costa Rica, and she was putting all these images up on the board of armadillos and toucans and turtles that she'd worked with.

This was at the end of the first year in lockdown in Melbourne, and it was via zoom. And I think something just spoke to me. I think that want for adventure, that, that exciting allure of something different than my house and being somewhere else really grabbed me. It just spoke to me. I thought that's really what I want to do.

But obviously because we're on this program, I was quite overweight. I had some health issues. So the first challenge was, would I be able to do it? I had to be able to, according to the program I wanted to go and volunteer with, I had to be able to walk four to five hours on soft sand every night in the tropical humidity, plus, work with the turtles as well at night.

So it was quite a physical program I was setting myself up for. So, I just turned 60, this was the beginning of January 2022, and I wanted to go for long service leave in the September. And so I set myself a goal of trying to get fit, fit enough to be able to walk those distances for that length of time.

I had to also be able to walk eight to 12 kilometres on the soft sand as well, that was what the guidelines were. So I started off, and I remember my first session was down near where I live, walking down to the beach, along the beach, and then back up this set of stairs and panting quite remarkably as I got to the top, not sure if I'd make it. And that was the beginning. 

James Valentine: It sounds like a big aim to me. It's like you've gone from sort of zero to a hundred. You're sort of, you're not going, ‘might just walk around the block’. It's like, I need to be able to rescue wildlife in Costa Rica. It sounds big.

Jacqui: Exactly. Right. I just, I don't know. I don't know if you have those moments in your life where things just speak to you. And I was just like, I want to do this. That's something that was very clear in my mind, but I knew I had to get to a certain level of fitness to be able to do it, and I was quite overweight.

I was probably about, probably reaching almost 100 kilos and I'm quite a small person. I was five, I'm five foot two and a half. Not was, but I am. So it was quite a challenge. Yes. So, I started with the fitness. I just knew I had that goal of making that distance for that length of time on the soft sand. That was the kind of significant part. 

James Valentine: And nothing else up until then, nothing else had prompted you to want to lose weight, right? 

Jacqui: Not quite true. I mean, I've been overweight. I've struggled with weight my whole life and I have tried various diets and I've lost weight, but it's always crept back on and that's the significant part for me.

How do I keep it off? So, I knew I could lose weight if I really put my mind to it. At that stage, the goal wasn't so much to lose weight. It was to get fit enough to do the program. But when it got closer, I started to worry about keeping up with the young people because I knew there'd be young people on this experience.

I knew I was going to be someone who, you know, was the oldest probably. So, I wanted to be able to keep up with the young people at night. 

James Valentine: Don't we all?

Jacqui: So, I got to April. And I was on holiday, and I was standing up from taking a photo of this family on the beach and I felt something go twang and it was my intercostals. So, I went to the physio and the physio said, she just laid it out for me, which was actually great for me. I didn't know I'd be able to take it so well.

She said, Jacqui, you're going to have to go to the gym three to four times a week and do weight training and resistance for the rest of your life. 

James Valentine: Wow. 

Jacqui: Okay. That's what I need to do, super clear. So, I started going to the gym as well as walking. I still really wasn't losing the weight.

James Valentine: Let's go back to, also just go back to that sort of first walk, you know, we left you, you were sort of panting up the stairs back to your house, right? So, that was in that first walk, did you also go, oh, I've got a long way to go?  

Jacqui: I’ve got a long way to go, but I knew if I could dedicate a regular routine to walking, I knew I'd be able to get, it was the distance I was worried about and the time. 

I couldn't ever quite make three and a half hours totally on the soft sand and I had to be able to do four to five hours. 

James Valentine: Wow.

Jacqui: It's really hard walking on soft sand. In fact, when I came back, I swore I'd never walk on a beach ever again. 

James Valentine: I don't like having to get back to my towel, quite frankly. So, you know, to do five hours just sounds impossible. 

Jacqui: And as it turns out, it was probably overkill, but I can explain that. A little bit later. 

James Valentine: Yeah, right. 

Jacqui: But yes, I was gradually building up. So, I was going pretty much Mondays after school, I was going Wednesdays, Fridays and on the weekend I'd try and do a long walk, walk on the weekend as well.

James Valentine: And you were maintaining that, so that discipline was staying with you, you can see the aim, you can see the turtles on the beach, you can see where you're going. 

Jacqui: The motivation was so clear. And that's partly also the challenge because when I came back, I knew the trick would be how to maintain that weight because I wouldn't have that clear motivation anymore.

So yes, going to the gym and walking, my routine was getting quite busy at this point because I was going three times.  

James Valentine: How many months out from the trip did the intercostals go?  

Jacqui: That was April, and I was going in September. 

James Valentine: Yeah. So, during that period you then start to do what, do daily gym routine you were saying, daily gym weight routine and walking.

Jacqui: I was going to the gym three to four times, so Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, and then walking as much as I could on those days, but also the in between days as well. But obviously I'm working full time. So, the long walks I could really only do on the weekend.  

James Valentine: So, what was happening to your weight?

Jacqui: The weight, actually, to be honest, wasn't really changing. I was feeling like I wasn't panting up the stairs anymore. So, I could tell I was getting fitter, but I wasn't actually losing weight. So, when it got to June, I thought, I actually need to take an extra step here, because again, I guess I would be a little bit embarrassed.

If I was going to be going to Costa Rica and working with young people, and there I was a very overweight, older person. So in June, I went on a program that I've been on before I knew it worked, which is the CSIRO Wellbeing, Total Wellbeing Diet. And I actually picked up a new book, which is the low carb one, because actually that was the other thing I hadn't mentioned was I had been diagnosed as pre diabetes in April as well. 

I've also been on high blood pressure medication and high cholesterol medication for a long time as well. 

James Valentine: Right. You've got it all going on at this point. So, you've got to deal with pre diabetes, you've got the intercostals have gone, you've got to get to the gym, you're trying to lose the weight.

Jacqui: Yeah. 

James Valentine: This is a lot to encompass, isn't it? Prediabetes, what does that suggest is going on? 

Jacqui: High blood sugar, so basically, it's a precursor to type 2 diabetes, which is a very serious health issue, as you know. 

James Valentine: But at that point it can be dealt with, with diet, right? 

Jacqui: It can be, yes.

And the doctor was very good. He explained everything to me of what I could do to change my lifestyle, which I was happy to say I've tried, I've already started doing. I've already started the walking, not to lose the weight. I don't think I've ever found, like in terms of the psychological part of losing weight, the kind of fear of health issues has never, unfortunately, been a motivation for me.

I'm not sure why, but the motivation to work with turtles was working. 

James Valentine: Isn’t it funny what it'll take to get us to do some stuff? So by April, May, June, you're at the gym. You're dealing with the diet, you're trying to lose the weight. You're walking, you're slogging yourself through the sand.

It's a, it's a brutal routine you've really got onto. What the CSIRO diet, just tell us a little bit more about that. I mean, part of my general understanding is in some ways it's quite straightforward. It's a sort of, you know, meat and salad and you'll be good. 

Jacqui: Well, the low carb one actually does, they're not so meat focused because originally that was kind of what we knew about the diet was how much meat or protein was involved. 

But the low carb one substitutes a lot of nuts and fish and not much bread or pasta or obviously the carbs. And what I love about the Total Wellbeing Diet, I think, is they have a 12-week program and it really clearly outlines what you need to eat at breakfast and the quantities, lunch, dinner, and it has recipes in there, and it's 12 weeks.

And 12 weeks feels manageable. It's a chunked-up amount of time. So, I knew if I could go on the 12-week diet, well, I hoped I'd be able to lose the weight because I had before being on that diet and I succeeded. I lost probably about half of what I've totally lost by the time I was in Costa Rica, so it did work.

James Valentine: Okay. Okay. Well, we might leave a cliff-hanger there and we'll, you know, be able to build towards what happened in Costa Rica. Did the turtles attack? We’ll get to that part of the story. But I might bring in our very helpful doctor here, Dr. Brad McKay is with us. Hello. 

Brad: Hello. Hopefully I can be helpful. 

James Valentine: Yes. Excellent. Well, what kind of things are you hearing in that story? I mean, one of the things that struck me is, the exercise wasn't working. We all think we'll be able to burn that fat off. Not necessarily. 

Brad: Yeah, it's, it's a very common presentation. So, very commonly, people like Jacqui will be wanting to lose the weight, they'll increase their exercise, they'll change their diet, and the evidence sort of shows that you might be able to lose about two percent of your body weight doing that.

If you're really giving it a red-hot go, you might be able to get to five percent of your body weight being lowered, but it's really, really hard to push past that. And if you stop doing what you're doing, so if you stop starving yourself, then you tend to go back to that pre-existing weight.

Your body loves to sabotage you and it loves to get back to your highest weight that you've ever been. 

James Valentine: Right. So why, I mean, we see all those lean swimmers and football players and they run around all the time and they, you know, they eat a good diet to try and be great athletes. Why are they so skinny and I'm so fat?

Brad: Well, they may be younger than you, so that's one thing. But also often those athletes haven't been overweight before. They haven't gone into an obese category, so they've maintained their weight. 

Their body isn't trying to sabotage them. It's not trying to get to that heavier weight because they haven't been at that weight before. 

James Valentine: Right. And so this has a lot to do with ageing, does it? When we get to a certain age, the weight is going to stay there?

Brad: Yeah, so as time goes on, then we generally sort of like waver, we go up and down with our weight, and so every time you're in that flux of change, your body's trying to get to that highest level.

So, just with a graph, if you're looking along this wavering line, it just slowly tends up all the time, because that's what your body is trying to do, it's trying to store energy. Evolutionarily, we have designed, our body has sort of evolved to be like that. 

James Valentine: So, we're always, so as we age, we always, our body wants to put on more weight.

Brad: So, our body wants to store energy to keep us alive for longer in case we can't kill that Saber-toothed tiger next week. We've got to have that energy on board. 

But when we have lots of food around, when we have fast food, when fast food is cheap, when we're not exercising as much, if we're not racing around, and competing in Olympic sports, then yeah, we tend to put on that weight. And so that's a very common story. 

James Valentine: And so, does that just keep on going? At 50 it'll be X and at 60 it's X and a half? Is it that sort of thing? 

Brad: So it's not guaranteed. So, a lot of people do increase their weight and they're able to maintain, increase their exercise and they're able to maintain their weight at that level.

Some people get really sick, and they lose lots of weight as well. There's also metabolic factors. There are hormone factors involved too. So, there's lots of variation. It's not inevitable. 

James Valentine: So, when Jackie was just exercising, that wasn't doing it. What's the difference when you add diet?

Brad: Well, if you're exercising to improve your health, you need to be exercising for about 150 minutes per week. And that's getting to a really high level where you're feeling puffed, where you may be able to have a brief conversation with somebody, but you're not able to sing. That's a great description in medicine for that.

James Valentine: But I can't sing anyways. 

Brad: You're screwed, yeah. So, the other part of it is if you're wanting to then lose further weight, then you need to be doing about 300 minutes every week at that level. 

James Valentine: Right. 

Brad: So, if you're wanting to then gain that further, then you've got to be really strict with your diet as well, and certainly a lot of the evidence does just look at the energy in versus energy out.

So yeah, if you're not exercising and not using up that energy, then your body is going to store it somewhere. 

James Valentine: Right. And so by diet, do we just mean eat less? 

Brad: That’s also the type of food that you're eating as well. So, if you're eating lots of saturated fats, lots of fat, meaty products, if you're eating lots of white bread and carbohydrates, then yeah, like you're going to be, yeah, maintaining that and your body is going to love that and want to hold on to it.

James Valentine: Oh, so different foods are held onto more resolutely by the body. 

Brad: There's a lot more energy that's in certain foods compared to others. So, for example, if you're eating lots of vegetables, then you can feel full, if your stomach is full of beans, for example. But you've also got lots of fiber. It takes a long time for your body to digest that fiber.

So, you'll have a little bit more energy for longer, rather than just bread that dissolves in your hands. before you're even able to put it in your mouth. So, your whole gut is sort of activated and it takes energy as well to break down that food too. So, the more rough your food is, the more whole greens you have, the more nuts you have, then yeah, it takes longer for your body to break it down.

And also, it's not packed full of sugar, which is easily getting into your bloodstream and spreading around. 

James Valentine: Now Jacqui, were you, did you know this sort of stuff when you went onto the CSIRO diet? Did you learn it as you went through? 

Jacqui: Yeah, the thing about always struggling with my weight is I tried many, many different diets.

Kind of know the facts and figures. I'm not sure I knew exactly why there were so many nuts in this particular diet, but it makes sense hearing what Brad's talking about for sure. 

James Valentine: What are the things that struck you about the CSIRO diet? What was different? 

Jacqui: I like the structure and I really like how each week is, like, it's a 12-week program and each day is pretty much designed for you in terms of quantities, in terms of what you need to eat, in terms of recipes. 

So, I find that in a busy life, very straightforward to follow. The trick is what you do afterwards. Once it finishes. 

James Valentine: What do you mean by that? Oh, once it finishes.

Yeah. So, you mean after the 12 weeks, it doesn't say week 13 Mars Bar? 

Jacqui: Well, I actually, I've got some little tips that have helped me, but one of them I think is for me having a day off every week. I hope that's not too naughty, but you know, just because I mean, it's very hard to stick to the same thing day in, day out.

So, I give myself like a little treat one day a week where I just think I am going to have some hot chips for lunch, or I'm going to have pizza for dinner or something like that. And then I go back onto it again the next day. 

James Valentine: Yeah. What do you think, Brad?

Brad: Yeah. So, Jacqui’s exactly right. So, what you're wanting isn't just a 12-week program.

You're wanting to be able to follow that eating habit for the longer term. And so often you do need a day off because if you don't, you will just fall over at the end of that 12 weeks. You'll go back to your previous eating habits. So yeah, I think it's crafty and it's helpful to do what Jacqui’s been talking about.

So having those days off and being okay with you, giving yourself a break, giving yourself a bit of leniency. Because you're needing that, to do that in the longer term. 

James Valentine: Why don't most diets work? I mean diets usually fail, don't they?  

Brad: A lot of diets fail. A lot of people are going along this whole dietary cycle where they are trying everything under the sun.

And not one diet works for everyone. Everyone has different metabolisms. So, what may work for Jacqui may not work for you. So yeah, you will have lots of Instagram influences and people online telling you that their green smoothie is going to be helpful for you losing weight. 

James Valentine: But it's also, diets will often be around a fad, which will be, you know, one particular food, or one particular activity, or one particular way of thinking.

Now again, that's hard to maintain, isn't it? 

Brad: Yeah, if you're on a grapefruit diet, then you're probably not going to be doing that forever.

James Valentine: Yeah, yeah. What's different about the CSIRO one? 

Brad: So, it's a bit more about healthy eating, and having healthy habits, and being able to continue it in the longer term.

Also, the variety is really important because you're needing to not get bored by that grapefruit that you're having every day. You're needing that variety, that spice of life. 

James Valentine: Yeah. The other thing I was struck by Jacqui, and let's, I asked you this sort of a little earlier, but you know, let's talk about it a little bit more.

The motivation was, is so curious in a way, it is quite an extreme thing that it's like you suddenly went, I wouldn't mind white water rafting, you know, kayaking or something. It's like you took quite a big step. It took a motivation that was a big step out of your normal life. Why had motivation failed before?

What, what, why doesn't the motivation of just, I want to lose weight, I know that's important. Why isn't that enough? 

Jacqui: It's interesting, isn't it? I mean, if I knew the answer, maybe I wouldn't have waited till I was 60 to finally lose some weight. And also, I do feel it's a very fragile truce I have at the moment.

I feel like I have to trick myself. I have to check. So little tricks I have is to check what's for breakfast the next day in the program, the night, the day before, just so that I can, every day I'm making that decision. Today I'm going to follow it. If I don't, I can fall back into old habits, but Brad, I had the doctor say to me it can take two years for the body to stop wanting to sabotage yourself.

And so that really helped me as well because I thought, okay, if I can get up to two years, I've still got to remain vigilant. I had a mantra, be vigilant because losing that weight was my last chance. I felt if I put the weight back on this time, I'd never take it back off again. 

James Valentine: That's interesting, isn't it?

Like that I wouldn't have really known that because I think most of us think I'll lose 10kg and then I'll be fine. 

Brad: Yeah. I suppose the thing is there's no magic number as well. So, I'm not sure whether that doctor's coming up with two years for it is often like a longer term sort of like hunger and a drive for food.

It's a very primitive reaction. There is some sort of changes. So, if you have been eating a lot and then you have been eating less, then your stomach will shrink a little bit over time. And so, if you're having food, your stomach will stretch earlier and so you'll feel fuller quicker. So that may be what they were talking about.

But yeah, your body wants to sabotage you forever. Sorry, Jacqui. It wants to sabotage all of us. 

James Valentine: But does your appetite sort of change? I mean, like I want pizza. I want chips. I want pies. I want cake. If you change it, does it just take a few years for you to start to, I want salad. I want tomatoes. 

Brad: So, a lot of my patients will find that, yeah, if they're, if they're on a diet, if they change their diet, they will often continue to have this voice, this hunger, telling them to go to the fridge and telling them about the foods that their body is craving for.

So and I think that that voice diminishes a little bit over time, but it's still going to be there. 

James Valentine: Jacqui’s superpower is she changed her whole appetite? 

Jacqui: Well, gosh, like I said, it's quite, I know it's fragile. I know I can, I just went into the fridge the other night and had a little binge. Just the stress, you know, but I have to think, no, go back on it the next day, back on it the next day.

James Valentine: Yeah, it's a beautiful description. You've used a fragile truce, isn't it? And I'm sure a lot of people with addiction would feel a similar sort of thing. And there'd be lots of aspects of our life where we have a fragile truce. 

Jacqui: Yeah, I do feel like it's been a little bit of an addiction over the years, the eating, you know, it has been that thing I've used, I think, to comfort myself, not very healthily.

So, yeah, I'm definitely, I've got that vigilant, be vigilant in my head for sure. That's what I do. 

James Valentine: Yeah. And let's go back, Brad, to the motivation, the fact that this, you know, Jacqui conceived of this Everest, climbing Everest-type desire. That's powerful, isn't it? 

Brad: Yeah. So, I suppose one thing that I'd be wanting to mention is that people can be motivated, they can be driven, and they have every aspiration of reaching their goals.

And then often, they aren't able to do that. Their metabolism works against them, their hormones work against them, their body. works against them. And they will often feel like a failure. And I think this is just this horrible sort of occurrence that just permeates throughout the world. We often have a stigma towards obesity and people being overweight.

And we often blame people for just putting things in their mouth. But it's not people's fault that they're gaining weight. And it's not their fault if they can't lose weight. There are just so many other factors involved with it. And we try to simplify this as people and our understanding of it. We try to put it in a box.

And so, yeah, it's just a reminder that if Jacqui has got the motivation and drive and has some tools in her belt that she can use to get to that level, and she's happy with her weight and where things are at, that is amazing. That is fantastic. But yeah, some people aren't that lucky. They aren't that fortunate and there are, and it's not their fault if they can't reach it.

James Valentine: Yeah. Did you feel those kinds of things that Brad was describing there, Jacqui? And, and I'm wondering, do you necessarily feel a victory or an elation now? 

Jacqui: No, I mean, certainly sometimes when I put some clothes on and I am pleased, you know, that I'm thinner than I was, but one of the things I think, absolutely what Brad said. 

My message would never be to shame someone. I never wanted like a before and after photo, for instance, because I've seen them all. I've seen those photos on TV or the magazines. 

Brad: They just changed the lighting, Jacqui. 

Jacqui: Because I've, you know, inverted commas here, but I feel like I've failed so many times because and that's, I guess, part of the fragile truce.

Now, you know, I feel like I could, I don't know how to word it properly, but I suppose go backwards and, I never want anyone to feel that, you know, I've got it sorted because I'd be the last person to say that. If I had it sorted, I would have 40 years ago. 

James Valentine: Yeah. Well, I almost wonder where there's a sort of like an almost reverse thing if you, if you're feeling great now and everyone's complimenting you now, it almost sort of, it doubles, the shame of the past. 

Jacqui: Or the pressure to, to keep it off. 

James Valentine: Or the pressure of it. Or sort of like, oh, so that's, it is, everybody is just sort of incredibly admiring of skinny. There is only skinny, you know, that sort of, that sort of thing is wrong too, isn't it? 

Brad: It's a great way to force an eating disorder.

James Valentine: Yeah. A great way to force an eating disorder. Let's consider age as a factor in here, Jacqui’s done this at 60, which is pretty impressive, you know, I've barely got the motivation to do anything anymore, really. So the, is it, is it harder, is it physically harder to be losing weight, and I suppose a big factor of that will be a psychological thing.

Mate, why am I bothering? This is me now. You know, come on, you know, let me enjoy myself. Really? What have I got to gain? You know. 

Brad: I think it's, it's also mobility. And so over time we accumulate problems, we develop injuries. And so, it gets harder and harder to move. Our heart doesn't work as well as what it did when we were a teenager.

So, we can't quite get to that level of exercise, yeah, that endurance, that ability to go all of the yards that we're needing to, to exercise enough to bring down our weight. 

James Valentine: But we can do diet. 

Brad: We can do diet. But again, it can be very, very restrictive. 

James Valentine: Yeah. Do we talk about it incorrectly, really?

We should be talking about how hard it is, not, we've got this easy one fix. Try this diet. Come to my bootcamp. We'll be able to, able to fix everything. 

Brad: I think in medicine we are trying to change that narrative for decades. So, trying to talk about like healthy eating habits and, yeah. 

Trying to teach teenagers, uh, which foods to eat so they won't end up overweight or obese over their, over their life.

So, I think our way of changing with television, with the media, and trying not to stigmatise people for their weight as well. This is sort of like a weird conversation that's going on right at the moment. 

Not fat shaming people, and people are talking about like being fat fit where they may be overweight, but they're actually like healthier than what I am at the moment.They can run a marathon. I couldn't do that at the moment. 

James Valentine: Yeah. It's worth underlying that, isn't it? Because that's a reasonably recent change. We've gone from a sort of sense that we've got to point out to these fat people that they need to lose that weight because it's no good for them. You know, your heart's struggling, you'll get diabetes.

We've changed, we've changed, that attitude's changed considerably.

Brad: I think it's a real interesting time at the moment. We've gone from fat shaming to now being like fat fit and body positive. And now with the introductions of a range of different medications that are all coming around the world, which are enabling people to lose more than that five percent that they could do under their own steam, getting down to 10, 15%.

Some of the medications that are coming around the corner could get even up to 25% loss of your body mass. This is sort of like disconnecting people's relationship with food. It's allowing them to change their body type. And I'm really sort of intrigued to see what happens with the social discourse and social understanding of that as we've gone from body acceptance, and this is how it is, to oh well, they're a skinny bitch because they've been using this drug.

James Valentine: Yeah. Are you supportive of the Ozempic Revolution? I guess it's one of the brands that people might be more aware of than others. 

Does that seem like a good thing to you? 

Brad: Overwhelmingly, it's positive. So having one injection a week is suitable for a lot of people. But it's not just about the weight loss.

Like, some people look better and that's what they're going for, fine. But if you're losing like 10 percent of your body mass, then it's going to decrease your risk of high blood pressure, decrease your risk of diabetes, decrease your risk of heart attacks, other heart disease. Decrease strokes, also decreases your risk of getting a whole bunch of cancers that are related to obesity and being overweight too.

So, it's overwhelmingly, this is, yeah, a good, a good thing around the world. 

James Valentine: Yeah. Jacqui, if that sort of thing had been available through the years or now, do you subscribe to that? Would you be happy with that? 

Jacqui: Very tricky. I'm not, I'm not actually sure. I mean, I was so reluctant to go on medication of any kind.

I always wanted to try, if I was going to lose weight to try and do it, I suppose, inverted commas again, naturally. Because I, but I mean, Brad's absolutely right. I mean, I don't know everyone's metabolism, like everyone struggles in their own way with these things. 

But certainly in terms of what Brad was saying, I think for me, I was so pleased to come back from Costa Rica and the doctor ran the blood tests again and I was not prediabetic anymore. So certainly, in terms of losing weight, it certainly helped my health prognosis, I would say. My heart blood pressure, high blood pressure medication went down by half as well.

I'm still on those tablets just because we have a history of family heart disease, heart disease in the family. But, in terms of losing weight, it did actually have some health benefits, absolutely. 

James Valentine: Well, when we left Jacqui, she was about to embark on a flight to Costa Rica to save the turtle population of the beach there.

Jacqui, pick us up with the adventure. What happened? What happened when you got there? Could you do the walk? 

Jacqui: So, yes, for all their kind of, you know, you need to be able to walk four to five hours every night, 10 to 12 kilometres on soft sand on the black beaches of Costa Rica on the Caribbean coast. 

Yeah, we didn't actually go out every single night, so I could get some rest time in between. And most of the nights, we would walk for a while, for sure, there was a lot of walking, but then we'd stop and work a turtle, which means we'd get in the pit with the turtle, we'd measure it, we'd body check it, we'd go under the turtles to catch the eggs and count them. 

So, the physicality was the walking, but also getting in the nest with this very big base, trying not to get sand flipped everywhere by their very strong flippers.

James Valentine: So, you were the Steve Irwin of turtles at this point. You're Crikey! Look at this, look at this fella. Describe the turtles. What species are they and what do they look like?

Jacqui: So, this is the second largest in the world, Australia has the largest, but, largest in the Western Hemisphere of endangered green sea turtles. This is their nesting beach, so peak season they were coming up onto the beach and laying their eggs. They're quite fascinating creatures. 

James Valentine: And how many, like in the thousands?

Jacqui: Oh yes, could be in a whole season, even tens of thousands, yes. But obviously they have their perils, I mean they are endangered, and human predation has a lot to do with that. 

James Valentine: And so, is that what the task was, was mainly to protect them from things like that or? 

Jacqui: So, it's collecting data for Sea Turtle Conservancy in Costa Rica. That was the organization I went with. 

James Valentine: And did you turn out to be, was it a bunch of sort of slim young gap-year type people who were running around doing this and you? 

Jacqui: Yes, yeah. But there was one lady who, accidentally, I didn't know, and it was just random that she was there at the same time who was about my age.

So, I was very fortunate how that worked out, but the young people were wonderful. They took me under their wing, and they made me feel like I was their mama for sure. They were lovely. 

James Valentine: And as like you were so motivated to go and do this, this obviously turned into sort of like, this is a journey that I really want to make. This is my dream sort of adventure to go and do this. 

Jacqui: It was life changing in so many ways. I think just, I mean, the young people were so inspiring, their love of conservation, their love of nature, the willingness to kind of be involved in something like that for months at a time. But obviously in terms of my weight and my fitness and my breadth of understanding about the world, I never, didn't even really know where Costa Rica was before I went.

James Valentine: What's next? Because having conquered that, it sort of feels like, well, what can I take on now? 

Jacqui: Well, yes, that's right. We did spend a little bit of time in Spain and discovered hill walking, which is very good for the fitness as well. And then, hopefully maybe India at the end of this year, but we'll see how we go.

James Valentine: Fantastic. Brad, I'm inspired. You know, like I sort of feel a little bit ashamed. I sort of think, oh, I wouldn't mind a house down the South coast for a while. That could be good. 

Brad: Are you training for cheetah conservation? 

James Valentine: Yeah, cheetah conservation. You need to chase down a cheetah and just inject it for a moment.

James Valentine: Just measure its fore paw and then, you know. 

Brad: Work it up. Count its eggs. 

James Valentine: Yeah. Have you got anything like that? Or do you have a sort of dream journey or something like that that you'd love to do?

Brad: I'm a bit of a veteran at Burning Man, so I often, yeah, like, pack up my stuff and then go into the middle of the desert and try to make sure that I'm fit enough to survive in Nevada with very little resources.

James Valentine: Were you there for the big muddy one this year? 

Brad: I was trapped in the mud. 

James Valentine: Really? 

Brad: For quite a few days, yes.

James Valentine: Oh, that's a very good annual adventure. And I think your weight might be a little crucial there too. 

Brad: You lose a few kilograms, yeah. When you're struggling through, through muddy sand.

James Valentine: Well look, fantastic. Great conversation. Thank you so much for, you know, Jacqui, thank you so much for sharing so much there. That's a very personal story that you've revealed for us. And thank you so much. 

Jacqui: Thank you very much indeed, for the honour. 

James Valentine: Brad, thanks for your expertise.

Brad: Thanks for having me.

James Valentine: For more about Jacqui Hodder and her weight loss journey, you can read her book. It's called Turtling in Tortuguero. And Dr Brad McKay’s got a book out as well, it's called Fake Medicine. You'll see the links in the show notes, you'll find them in bookstores and libraries right now. I think you'll agree, great story from Jackie and terrific information from Brad. 

You've been listening to Life's Booming, Is This Normal? Please leave a review or tell somebody all about the show. If you want to know more, head to seniors. com.au/podcast. You'll get our earlier series there and more episodes. I'm James Valentine. I'll see you next time for another Life's Booming. 

Tortuguero! Turtling in Tortuguerro! I love just dropping into accent for one word, it's always very powerful. Okay.