TV Personality, author, and advocate Catt Sadler may not have known Shannen personally, but they have a lot in common.Like Shannen, Catt wasn't afraid to confront career injustices and advocate for equal pay.Today, she hosts the CATT SADLER NOW podcast and continues empowering women to face their fears and find their strength.
This is Let's be clear with Shannon Dorney. Hi, everybody, welcome, Welcome, What an honor to be here. I am Kat Sadler and I'll be hosting Let's be Clear this week. And as so many of you know, this platform, this space is so sacred, was so important to Shannon, so just to be invited here, I have to say, I just I'm so so touched. I have to believe that knowing Shannon, even from the other side, she's probably moving things around. She's still such a force, and so in a weird way, I feel like she even chose me to be here today. So for that, Thank you, Shannon, thank you for her whole team. I'm so so grateful to be here. For those of you who may not know me and know my career as an entertainment host and a TV host, a journalist, I like so many of you, was very invested in Shannon's life and her career, and I knew her from AFAR and admired her for countless reasons, countless reasons for her bravery, for just how honest she was, how she fought for what she believed in, and that is not easy to do. People like Shannon make it look easy, but it's it's not. I had to learn that the hard way. Has taken me many, many years to figure that out as I've gotten older. But again, because this space, this podcast was Shannon's way of sharing her truth in her own words, I'm honored to help continue with that mission and talk a little bit about truth today. That's kind of I think going to be my theme. In fact, a little fun fact. I even have the word truth tattooed right here on my forearm. I was after a real nasty breakup, which I'm happy to tell you about because Shannon would, she'd tell it like it is, She'd tell you everything. But I thought first it might be fun to kind of tell you how Shannon and my worlds collided or intersected over the years before I get into that, because to frame this a little for you guys, I long before I was a TV host on E and spent decades, you know, reporting from all over the world for the Entertainment Network. I always dreamt of being a journalist, but I was from a very very small town in Indiana, and I, like so many other teenagers in the nineties, was obsessed with Beverly Hills nine o two and zero and would watch religiously. It was appointment television and Shannon was an icon then, I mean to me, I mean that cast was obviously, you know, so impactful to so many and shaped pop culture in so many ways at the time. But Shannon was just she had this strength, she had this aura, she had this just super such a magnetic energy around her you could tell, even as an actress on that show. So I grew up just kind of idolizing her like so many people did. And Hollywood for me, I mean forgetting I know two and oh, I mean Hollywood as a whole was a pipe dream for a kid like me. I didn't know anyone in the business. I didn't have family in the business, but I would watch shows like Hers or movies on the screen and did dream about one day coming to Hollywood. And you got to remember that, y'all, this is a long time ago. This was before people had phones, before we all felt far more connected, before the world felt smaller. I mean, it was huge. It would have been like going to Mars to go to Hollywood. But I ended up studying journalism in college in Indiana also, but would eventually land my first ever TV reporting entertainment job in San Francisco. So if you are old enough, and I know you Charmed bands will know this. But Charmed was on the WB network. I was hired. My first TV job was the WB twenty, which was the affiliate of the WB in San Francisco. So here I was twenty one years old. Also another pinch me dream job that the fact I landed was just crazy looking back, but I was hired to be on this ten PM newscast in San Francisco as a twenty one year old as the entertainment reporter. And I even brought you a little keepsake because I thought you WB fans, Charmed fans would appreciate this. I still have my WB twenty mug from my very first TV job back in nineteen ninety seven, the WB twenty News of ten. Yep, that was me. So what that meant was here I was this young reporter trying to exude confidence, trying to be brave, trying to you know, emit this strength, often faking it till we make it when we're young. Right, But I landed this job, and I remember it wasn't long after that they were like, Kat, we're going to send you to Los Angeles on assignment. Did you not to the set of Charmed? Yes? True story, And what I'll continue to do here is like wow, looking back, connecting all the dots and then just sitting here in front of you guys today. It's just wild. But I was so nervous, I was so green, I was so inexperienced, and I just I remember that trip like it was yesterday because it was the first time I'd ever come to Hollywood been on the set of a massive production of that scale. I remember it was a night shoot. It wasn't on a stage or anything. Was actually somewhere set. I think it was in the home that Charmed was filmed in, and it was in the mountains somewhere in this beautiful, like California picturesque setting. I remember it was dusk, it was getting dark, and I was so nervous because I knew I was going to come face to face with Shannon Freakin Doherty. I mean, I remember this like it was yesterday. And the exciting part about that is I was able to have that front row seat to watch them do their scenes. And it was Shannon, it was Alissa, it was Holly, it was the director, it was. You know, it was this massive production, and I remember just being in awe of the immense amount of work they were doing and thinking, you know, she's not that much older than me, and thinking like, look at how incredibly dedicated to her craft she is. She's such a star, she is such a legend, and you could feel her aura just by being in the same room with her. Now, the bummer to this story is that I must have waited hours to get the interview with the girls that night, and I never got this dinking interview. I never got the interview, and it was because I think they were running late and they were behind on their scenes, and you know, these these productions have to you know, it's all about you know, money and schedules and the union and all this stuff. So for whatever reason, they could not take a break and they never did do the interviews, which was totally heartbreak for me. But on the other hand, it was still so fulfilling because I was just there. I just felt like a giddy little guest, not really a twenty two year old journalist trying to get the interview. So I was a little bummed. But of course, fast forwarding to my time then on E and crossing Paso Shannon and being able to cover her over the years and always admiring her and respecting the stance she would take no matter what until the very end, which is so admirable, her vulnerability through her painstaking illness. I just sat over here like so many of you and just you know, my heart, my heart was just so touched by her sharing of her journey and her illness and still until the very end showing us her courage and the way that she would stare down everything that she was going through and be so honest with all of us about every step of the way. And then one other just again, interesting connection is you all know Chris Cortazo, who is one of her very very best friends and dear friends. As fate would have it, I have become friends with Chris in the last couple of years because he actually sold our home out here in Malibu to my partner Gregan and me, So he sold our house for us so that we could move to where we are now. So anyway, just so many little interesting, interconnected beats to our lives and the fact that I'm going to say it again, she and her team asked me to take up a little space here today is really really cool and very special to me. And to bring it back to truth a little bit, I mean, I suppose the way that my career evolved, and having been in this industry and being on a massive television network for more than a decade or twelve years up until that point, I had really operated like so many, so many women unlike Shannon do, so many women who don't feel like they have the permission, like Shannon do, so many of us who have been taught to stay in a straight line, to keep things tidy, to not complain, to seek the approval of others, to be liked by everybody. In many ways, I was that girl. I was that girl from a small town in the Midwest who just wanted to be liked and didn't want to rock the boat. And that is a very limiting self belief, and it is It is not the way I would recommend any of you live your lives. I mean, I had to learn, and I've had my own journey. But I was that employee in my company that you know, I guess I'd say I was a yes girl. You know, yeah, sure, all work extra hours, all work a longer weekend. I'm a team player. I never I never really challenged the powers or the authority, and in many ways, on me, I muszled my own creativity and muzzled my own needs, often as a working mother. On top of that, to just be liked, to stay in my sweet little spot that probably somewhere in my subconscious I was always afraid of losing. Because we are also taught as women that were just lucky to be there, right Like I was a lucky to have a dream job. On me, I was lucky to do the work and be in the position to interview celebrities, aless celebrities and these iconic figures that I should just keep quiet and shut up and keep it moving and never really a voice and a grievances about anything to do with that. Right, And by the way, take the pay we give you, because there's a lot of people that would do this job for free, you know what I'm saying. So if some of you know my name, maybe it's because you didn't watch E, but maybe you know of my story that eventually the kind of quiet, more submissive, go with the flow girl cat that I once was. It took learning of a massive pay disparity at my job for me to finally use my voice and understand my power and understand what I could do, what I needed to do, what I had to do to be truthful to my own soul and my own spirit and to stand up for what was right. And so it's people like Shannon who had been in the news, or people like Rose McGowan who had been in the news who I had been covering, these other remarkable women like Jennifer Lawrence speaking out and talking about pay disperity or injustices in the workplace. It took me reporting on them to see them as these old characters, these bold people, these bold voices that did it anyway because it was the right thing to do. Then my own story became, you know, right paralleled alongside many of those stories. I found out about pay disparity with my co host, and I went through a myriad of emotions because of that. It was about a year long process. You know, I get asked about this a lot. It wasn't like I learned the news and then I quit my job and it was over. I mean, it was a really quite a season, have a lot of soul searching and figuring out what to do about it, you know, I first learned that I was underpaid, severely, severely underpaid, and I was embarrassed, and I was angry, and I was frustrated. And how Hollywood works, you know, I had an old team of agents, and so then of course I bring this information to them. Whether they knew or not, of course they had to have some idea of what the disparity is. That's another whole part of the network here in Hollywood. But I had a decision to make. It's like, let's ask for what I believe that I am worth, and then if I don't get that, what am I going to do about it? And so my story is such that we did. You know, I asked for what I believed was reasonable pay what I thought was fair ballpark pay to what my counterpart had been making. By the way, for those of you who don't know the story very well, you know, we started at the network the same year. This was really an apples to Apple's situation. We had a very similar public profile like this for me felt very very much like an injustice and a huge, huge, you know, evidential reality that this was in fact an injustice and was wrong and by the way, illegal. So we tried to negotiate getting my pay to where it needed to be, and at the end of the day, that network decided that they weren't going to meet me there, not even close by the way. So I always tell people this, you know, again, back to the good girl culture that so many of us were raised to be or to how to behave in this very polite society as women, You know, how it used to be. I got angry, and I always was taught that angry anger itself was maybe a bad emotion or a negative emotion, and it wasn't. It wasn't a it wasn't a pretty way to behave. And it actually took the anger from the situation to propel me forward to do what I did. Like anger in that situation, it was the emotion that I needed to awaken my voice in many ways, to use my reach and my power and take a stand against what I knew to be right. So I also just want to say that for any of you, regardless of what you do, or if you're working in corporate America or have your own business or whatever it is, or whether or not you don't work at all, there's something I think inside of all of us, which is our own moral compass, and I just think it's so incredibly important that we listen to that guttural instinct. And for me, my decision became easier because I was able to walk away and quit that job because I knew, I knew that if I were to stay, that would have been a disservice to me and my spirit and my core, because I would have been living a lie. Again, it's back to truth and the opposite, which is essentially living a lie. I would have gone air on air every day, day after day. I would have settled for what I knew was below me. I knew my worth was greater than what they were offering, and I would have It would have just been an act of self Deceit really the opposite of loving oneself. It would have been settling, and therefore I wouldn't have been able to do even the job that I wanted to do, that I love to do. So eventually the decision became easy for me. I guess nothing was really easy about it, but it was at least clear. Let's be clear, Okay, the decision was clear that I would walk away and I would exit, and that departure for me taught me so so much about all of the many virtues that Shannon talks about and believes in and acted upon, which is be brave. You know, even when your voice shakes, you've got to be brave if that is your truth, and and share your truth. And I have to say, as scary as it is, guys, like it's so incredibly rewarding to do it, I believe that the universe on the other side of these scary moments, these moments we were fearful, the moments where we feel like we have everything to lose and real life is on the line. I mean, I was a single mom with two kids. Money mattered in my household, and so to take that leap was a massive risk. But because I did it, and I know this now, I can sit here on the other side and say, I know that I did that because I've been rewarded by the universe. I have been rewarded in so many ways. To see the women in Hollywood rally around me after making that decision and leading again, not something I'd ever done. I didn't love conflict. I disdain conflict in fact, But because I had the courage to do that, I mean to see the support I received from doing that. I don't know if y'all know about the Golden Globes. You know, event months after my departure in the thick of Times UP, I mean so many women that again I love and revere Sarah Jiska Parker and Eva Longoria and Deborah Messing and Jennifer Lawrence and all these women taking a stand on my behalf saying we stand with Kat because women should be paid fairly in the workplace. Like I was just astounded by the response that I received from other women and maybe perhaps even more importantly, the young girls around the world who would reach out to me after that, after that act of mine, after that stand of mine, young girls doing like school reports in their classes, and then there would be college courses on equal pay and just we've definitely, I don't want to say a long way, but we've definitely made progress in recent years. And so that was just so fulfilling for me and unexpected for me that my move would make any kind of impact. I didn't do it for the impact. I didn't do it for any kind of notoriety. In fact, I was suddenly like thrust into being this poster child for at the Times UP movement. Which I didn't ask to be. But I'll also just say that it's so interesting if you're open to being used enough service in your lifetime. I remember being at E and I remember watching a lot of the other TV hosts come and then they'd go, or a reporter would come, and then they'd leave, and we'd be at their goodbye parties and we'd be wishing them well and we'd be toasting, you know, their career, their contributions to the network and everything they did in entertainment. And I remember always sitting there thinking, Hmm, I wonder what my exit's going to look like. I wonder what my goodbye is going to look like. I wonder what my farewell party, what people are going to and I wonder when that would be and how that would look. And I never would have dreamed that my exit, after twelve years, five days a week being with this company and a dream job, that I absolutely changed my life for the better in every way, that my departure would look like that number one, and to just affect so many others and so ever since that post in that position, I have felt a real obligation to continue to tell that story and to continue to shine light on the disparities in the workplace for women and the inequalities that are so so real still to this day, not just for me and for white women, but for women of color in particular. The disparity is horrific, and I hope that we continue to shine a light on this issue. And it does take a certain skin. It takes a certain skin to keep speaking up and to walk into your boss's room and to say no, I want the promotion, or no, this is unfair, or how come I keep getting this assignment. He keeps getting this assignment, and he keeps getting promoted, and he keeps getting the better jobs, or he keeps getting the praise or the accolades. So I feel you, women, I feel you. I know what you are up against. But keep going, keep going. And I always like to give the advice to keep records of your achievements and what you do, because it's one thing to say I believe in myself, I know my value, but there really is some added value if you can just show your wins, have records of your wins. Whatever job you're in again, whatever industry you're in, whatever life situation you're in. The proof is in the pudding. You know, if your clients are loving your work, or write that down, or if you got this you know, thank you, or nice email from another somebody else, you know, write it down. Keep these things, collect these things, and don't be afraid to ask proactively for what you want. I think that's another thing I never really did growing up, is even in school, even in work, I would never just I was never that person just knocking on the door and asking for what I want or asking for the assignment I wanted, or as you know, raising my hand and challenging anything like don't be afraid like that. Is what I've learned through this whole process is just how liberating it is and how much freedom there is when you speak up. It's not even just speaking out, it's just speaking up because again, as a society culturally over hundreds of years, and this is just look at where we used to be. I mean, my mom loves to tell the story that you know, she had to ask my dad to get a credit card because women weren't even allowed to get their own credit card in our lifetime. Guys. So you know, we have a lot of way to go, but we have come a long way and let's keep it going, is what I would say. For certain that in many ways is kind of my my et story and how that all came to be, and how again I believe in truth in every aspect. In fact, my podcast Kat Sadler now has morphed into you know, it used to be more interviews with celebrities, kind of my background, my experience of a conversation, for sure, but it is morphed into let's talk about it. Let's take off the masks, because let's get real. Let's be vulnerable. Can I be transparent with you? Can I let it all hang out again the way Shannon All always has. She was a pioneer at this. But what happens when we do this with each other is that we give one another permission to be ourselves. We give one another permission to be okay and understand that I don't care what you do, what your zip code is, if it's nine O two one Oho or if it's four six two five six. In Danapolis and Niana where I'm from, we all bleed red. We all have problems, we all have highs, we all have lows, and there is just such great value when we share our similar stories we're all so much more like than we are different because it makes us feel us alone, It makes us feel comforted in these similarities, and hopefully it inspires all of us to keep going, keep going, keep sharing. I mean, on a very superficial note, and any of you again who listened to my weekly podcast, know that I do share so much of my life, and I often talk about the healing that I've done. I mean, one of the beautiful things having left my five day a week career and now working for myself and having my own production company is I'm really in the driver's seat of what I get to talk about, on what I get to do. But it also opened up the space for me to do a lot of my own healing. In recent years, I had been in a series of failed relationships. I have been divorced twice, although I will say I'm friends with both my exes. But I was getting into some relationships and one in particular that really almost took me out. Took me out three or four years ago, and I went on a real deep, deep dive into self healing and learning to love myself again, learning to once again trust that gut of mine, trust me myself, and trust my own power, and I talk about that a lot on my podcast. So I've done so much internal work. I'm literally that friend. I'm always sending like the book recommendation or the podcast recommendation or a catformation, like lifting people up and trying to remind women of what they can have and manifest in their life to live optimally. But on the flip side of that is, I'm still very much a girl's girl, and all the girls I know in my life still love to shop, and still love great clothes, and still love want to share and exchange beauty secrets. And so as I was turning fifty last month, the year before turning fifty, I started, you know, having those conversations about midlife, and a lot about midlife has to do with our interior, our physical health, changing, our hormones, sleeping differently, growing different weighing differently, like our moods changed. So much changes at this time of life. And I was really, as a journalist, interested in really exploring how that impacts women. But I'd be lying if I didn't talk about the very vain or superficial maybe not vain, but certainly the more surface concern of what it means to age on the outside. So I explored this whole what's available to me. I didn't like my jowels so much. I started looking sad all the time. I looked angry when I wasn't in photos. And so I did what any good journalist does, and I interviewed my plastic surgeon about do I need a facelift or would that mean for me? And what would that be like? And how could I experience this? And should I or shouldn't I? And while I do this, here's an idea, why don't I take my truth to the people. And I am so glad that I did, because I kid you not sitting here about seventeen months post facelift, I hear from women every single day. I literally joke with my doctor, Kim my plastic surgeon who did my facelift necklift and I lift. I'm like, I have become a liaison. I'm now the like consultant for facelifts everywhere. It's like first it was I was like the equal pay poster child. Now I'm the facelift poster child. But anyway, I'll do the job because I'm happy to talk about it because again, it is my truth. I am incapable of telling a lie. People said to me like, why are you Why are you telling the world about it? Couldn't you just go do it? I'm like, I'm doing it because that is who I am, that is how I operate. And again the it's like, why gatekeep on this stuff? Number One, I can't lie. I would never lie. I would never be that person who's like, I had three months vacation, don't I look rested. It's I just I'm allergic to lies. I don't want them from anybody else, So why would I tell a lie? But also the Sisterhood of Women were just like, let me let me share with you what was how painful was it? What was the recovery? Like how scared was I? You know? Did they? You know? There are so many technical aspects of this type of surgery and is a very serious surgery and not to be taken lightly. But I've been able to connect with so many different women literally you guys from around the world who want to know about this stuff. And in fact, doctor Kim is very happy because he keeps saying, I just booked another one of your friends from Dubai or somebody from Australia, it's wild. But anyway, that's just been another way, again not strategically as far as my career goes, to just another very natural, organic, authentic truth that I've been able to share that through doing that, I think is providing value to other women that makes them feel more okay in their own bodies and minds when they start to feel similarly. I'm not saying everybody go out and get a facelift. What I am saying is, do your homework, get information, take this seriously. Here are the risks involved. And then the other advice I was giving every single person I speak with on this is for me. It felt like the right time because this wasn't about let me fix my face and all of a sudden I will be happy now. This was I've done the interior work. I've done so much introspection on self. I'm good with who I am. I love the person I've become. I stand here confidently with self, love knowing who I am. So this is just icing on the cake. The facelift was the cherry on top to other work that I'd been doing on myself, a real, real gift to self. And so I've always said, you can get all the botox you want to get in the world, but that's not going to make your problems go away, and that's not going to give you the real joy that I think all of us want in our lives. Joy. It really is simple. And so I have to tell you one more thing before I let you go, and that is again, I believe so much in energy and coincidences. I feel like there is this really a more masterful universal plan for all of our lives. So I encourage you all to pay attention to that and look around. If your eyes are up and you can not be on your phone all day, They're just there's so much beauty in the mundane and all these things that each day like develop right in front of our eyes if you are again awake enough to see them. I know that Shannon loved horses, and that is another love of mine are horses. It is my spirit animal. And I have been really deep diving into the power of the quantum field and metifestation and neuroscience and how our brains work and how we kind of try and someone in really beautiful things into our lives. And I have had horses on my vision board for like three years now, and again for anyone who follows my story through my show, they know that I moved to where I'm sitting today, which is Little Gem Ranch. It's a ranch in the Santa Monica Mountains. It's a dream come true and we're on all this acreage and it's just been a wild ride so far. But this home where I'm living used to be home to horses. There are about eight horses that lived here. There's still some corrals here and I keep telling everybody like that's like phase five. One day I'll get a horse. One day I'll get a horse. And I've been manifesting one day to have my dream horse. And it's just too cute that we have too much going on. We're redoing our house, we're redoing our land, and we've got six kids between us, so our lives are very full and very busy. But the people adjacent to our property, by the way, there are probably five different homes within the vicinity, none of which have horses. Right, but the neighbors right adjacent to our house moved in in July and as of literally last night, as the sun is going down, unload their first of two horses. And so when I say that this property is like adjacent, like we share a fence, and when we're sitting by our pool, twenty feet away is what is now our neighbors horse Coral. And so last night I was so excited. I was sitting on my couch and I heard me like I'm sitting on the couch. I'm like, oh, there's a horse. There's a horse. Where's there a horse? And I like throw my uggs on and I run outside and there was many And while she's not my horse, she's our neighbor's horse, but we became friends really fast. And she's so gorgeous and she looks like this frosted Graham cracker, beige, nude, freckled, kind of stunning horse. And I was just going to bed last night and I was just like, I have had horses on my manifestation board for three years and I have no business owning a horse right now. I don't have the time, you know, we don't have the resources. We have so many other things to do. I was like, but what are the chances that I'm looking at a horse. There's a horse we have a friend. It's not my horse. Again, it's not my horse, but I get to look and enjoy and befriend this creature without even leaving my house every single day moving forward. And that's many. And apparently they're moving in Zoro next week. So two horses that I'll get to love on and even ride. We were talking about that last night. So I just I thought of Shannon because as I was coming to the microer today, I was like another horse lover. Maybe she's up there just winking at me. Because what a gift, What an expected gift, A manifestation of I suppose my thoughts and emotions focusing on all things beautiful, all things beautiful. So one more thing before before I let you go. I actually I do this sometimes you heard about catfirmations are kind of my way of sharing affirmations with people and ways to lift them up or inspire them or just give them a bit, a bit of a read or a notion that brings them comfort in some way. And I found this book as I was prepping to come here into Shannon space today. It's called How Far You Have Come. It's by Morgan Harper Nichols. Do you know this? She's an artist and poet. She's all of our Instagram. Her artwork's amazing If you don't know Morgan Harper Nichols, go check her out. But she wrote in this poetry book one passage that I just thought was so so pretty, and it reminded me of Shannon a little bit. So I'll read it with you guys. It says, when all of this is over, I'll take shelter under the orange tree that sits in the shadow of the old oak tree, cloaked under the sky, wide and black. I can trust and believe despite the sorrows stored in my skin, joy is a steady stream in the depths of my soul, and the midnight sky a balm for my sun dried arms. I am not who I was. I do not have to run anymore. I have hope. This day is still brimming with a thousand stories, and my story is one of many. Under the orange tree, under the oak tree, my words unassembled within me. I peel back this orange layer by layer to tell its story, and then I peel another one and another. I taste their sweetness, each piece of fruit in its own season. Leaning against the brown tree trunk, I weep. Finally, under all these shredded layers, I am finally free to rest. So I love you, Shannon, I love everything you stood for. I'm sorry we didn't get to share a human hug in your lifetime, but I'm so grateful to know of you and to now be a vehicle here today on your space Let's Be Clear. So thank you everybody for just letting me connect in this way with you, and tune in next week for another episode of Let's Be Clear, Let's Love Hi,