Hey, guys, it's me Matt speaking to you and the reason I'm doing so so you know that for all you Los Angeles people, we are coming to you on Wednesday, December five at the Regent for him. I don't think so, honey live It's going to be very fun. So all you Los Angeles people December five, okay, by forever? Look mad oh I see you? Why and look over there? How is that culture? Yes? Goodness, let's calling Matt. What are you reading these days? Oh? Fuck you stop? I know I'm not reading a Okay. The last book I read was The War of Art, All the Ward of Art, and you gave me loved it, opened up the doors. It's great, right, I can't. I'm surprised you didn't read it before it I had so warned you had read it. And then I was like when when I was like, have you read it? The Word of Art? And you're like no, It's like, oh, but then you must. Can I ask you a questions just around about way so you can talk about what you reading? No, you just want to textify. I wanted a conversation, sure, and I do want to encourage reading any more. You have this very anti intellectualism about you that you're like, I don't read books, and like, I think it's an issue and it's not what we need in this time. I read online articles. Yeah, it's not about important things like politics. Okay, I think you need to. I mean with books, are are windows into other worlds. Right, you're reading a book right now, I think you should read. I think you should read um like Role Models by John Waters, or I'm reading I'm finishing Joy Luck Club. You should, you should read, you should finish Roylub. I would like to read Joy Luck Club. Does Crazy Rich Asans count as a book? And did you read it? Yeah? Absolutely, it is a book. But I know the story and it's like, isn't a kind of like oh, but it's I feel like the movie. I haven't read it myself, which is I'll admit, but I hear that the movie departs it takes many liberty. I did read Big Little Lies, the novel after I watched that. You did, and you read Gone Girl before you watched the movie. I was very proud. Um these like these like these like Gillian Flynn adjacent things you've you've you've done. Yeah, I think I don't know, I really like to read autobiographies of comedy women. Yeah, and that's great, which is one of the I guess top five most basic times about me competing with some heavy Ellie Kemper just came out. I saw that Busy Phillips comedy. Queen Busy Philip comedy, Queen Busy Phillips. Who knew we all knew. Oh my god. Well we'll talk about this with with the boy with the boys. Now, who are the boys? The boys are I mean, true prolific queens, I mean shared credits among them, they're I mean, they're like a wonderful The first of all, they're a couple. Let's just get that off. Let's just get that off the time so we don't have to talk about it. They also I mean, I mean, I mean they're doing such good stuff. I mean, between the two of them, you have called your father, which I fucking love. Men don't whisper starring TERRYO Terry. You gotta love sharing a little culture at number seventeen. You gotta love Sharry uh and search Party. I mean, And and we'll let them take it away and talk about what stuff they're working on now where things kind of drinks the crew was going to get up to on this next season of Search Party. I mean, I don't think it's many. I think it's a lot of like drinks. Well, no, it's um it's like it's trial drinks. It's a lot of like, oh they're they're in court because you can get up to hid drinks in court. Have you seen the OJ trial? Um, sure it was. It's not as you know, it's it's it's not like them running around. It's them like having to sit down and be like definition of hi drinks is really if you guys have you guys have killed people? You know, it's it's it's not. It's not fun. I mean they'll make it fun, but it's not. It's it's not the same thing of them, like you know, it's just you know, I did read some pages of the script. Oh my god, because you were you're you shot a thing of Search Party, didn't you. I won't confirmers enough. Oh that's mostly because like what I mean gets cut. You've already confirmed it on Jeffrey Seft's episode of Um well anyway went in it. We're so excited to have them unless you're cut. Were so excited, Um, it's not up to him, I haven't cut you yet. Oh um, we're so excited to have them give a warm ear. Welcome to Charles Rogers and m I wanted to chime in, so your feelings, I wanted to I liked um were Art of War were different Chinese Chinese. I did read that in college. I had no idea Ellie Kemper has a book. I wanted to talk about Ellie Kemper, okay, because we had we had like a year where we would just tag her in everything before. That's how we courted each other, was just tagging. Is this real? Yeah? That's what. But it was like a different Ellie Kemper. It was like a Swedish woman. Yeah, okay, I do want to get into the courtship later, okay. And then what else did you want to chime in on? I forget. I was just gonna be like I want to I never read like Matt, but I am reading right now. I'm like trying to read more. So I wanted to chime in about that. Can you speak for the people that don't read, because I feel like we got a bad rap. It is just so boring. Yeah, but then but then when it's not, it's so fun. I agree. Yeah, it's like when you're in it, you're like, this is amazing, and then three weeks go by, four weeks you're like, I'm never finishing that. Do you feel like I read? I don't read, and I feel like I'm a reader. Here's the thing, Charles and I are the same, Like I'm a reader. You read. I read so much more than you. You do. You very busy, baby, Well when you're writing, you can't be reading. You can't be reading. Wait, so wait, what were you trying to say? It taints your work? It taints your work? He doesn't. He Actually what pisces me off about his not that exact sentiment. He can't watch TV, oh, because I just I don't want to sit down at the end of the day and like what, especially when you live in l A And every party you go to is it's like, so it's a dragon and a mermaid, Like it's just what you're like, I don't live in the real world. I agree with that. I mean, like they always said, like when we were learning like the screenwriting in college, they were like and be watching everything. I was like, you want to do that? I don't like until you're not yourself at all, but to not be able to experience and with your lover, to have to watch Atlanta and have to be so moved by it and then have to like explain these weird moments that don't actually make sense and you're like, he's like, yeah, it's a magical real it's everyone's done that. I don't political point or something. So he just doesn't want to, but like he will. He'll never understand Teddy Perkins. Yeah, I know enough to know I respect that okaying is okay, but that this is a very interesting approach because I am curious about you. And Sarah the same way where she won't watched She's one of these people who have fall Yeah, she watches tons of night moves and she will fall asleep to something every night. I don't identify without either. Yeah, it's on me. I fall asleep like the Office or thirty Rock, like comforting things like from when we were coming up, and that's when I used to when we were coming up, and that was really the Well maybe that's maybe that's a lie. Like in college, I did watch TV and I'll get into a show, but I'm not like an active TV watcher all the time. Like I I can't list off five or six shows that I am watching frequently. What happens to me is I'll get very obsessed with something for one or two seasons that I binge, and then the third season will come out and for some reason, I'll have no fucking interest. Yeah, Like I love the first season in West World. I actually loved it, and then the second season came back and I was like, oh, I don't care about this at all. Yeah, it's impossible. Well now it's impossible because then it's like within three weeks eight shows have come out and you're like, so by a year from then, you're like, I don't remember it, I don't care about it, and everything has come out. So I know this is bad. This is bad to say on this podcast, but I felt that way about Drag Race this season. I was like, I've been watching this show for like almost a year. Yeah, like it's gonna it's getting pathological if you like have something in your life felt even though I still love the show, yeah, same, and you you can't ever not watch it because now it's like, what do we talk about then? But I do? I did, Okay, So I'm so glad you're saying this, Charles, thank you, because I for a long time thought that, like in order to just sort of be like you, like that you can't create in this vacuum or whatever. I mean, not not that. Yeah, it's that's happening. Well, I wish I watched more stuff, and I missed the days when I was like so fresh and like wanted to consume and like beate and be molded, you know, like I don't have that inspiration anymore. But I think it's just like feeling tired. I think it's just being tired and also wanting to do other things. Like I'd rather listen to music. You said you like podcasts, Yeah, I can't. I want constant chatter. I never want silence. He has a hard time listening to music too, though I do. Yeah, I feel like he like works and then he's just like staring And then it's true. It's true. At night I'll just look through Instagram and jerk off and stare at the scene to him the entire time, and he says a word driking off a huge part of my life as well, that I think, And that's no, that's as noble as reading. And of course I challenge you to to really give us our generations first or just the world's first Instagram masturbation scene. I feel like we haven't that has That's true, and that's a very you mean just drinking up to other people's Instagrams, but specifically with a phone in your hand, and like, that's right, Yeah, I have Twitter jerked off before. But because there's actually like the tweets to Nikki Glazers tweets, yeah, yeah, we you follow each other, so I can't say anything. Love your girl. We recently met her and she recognized Bowen and not me. It was a great moment and she did recognize you. By the end she was like, no, I think I do know you and I was like maybe. And it was a week you spent a week with it. It was only the three of us up stay in the cabin and then speaking when you tell us that, we were saying, yeah it was so. I think we were there for the best week leaf weekend of the because was that the week after us? That was the week after us because you guys start started to see them turn, but they weren't like it. I will say that it was a really good week class week. Okay, Okay, I actually think we got the tail, and we got the tail yesterday. It was like I've never seen gorgeous. Yeah, I was. I slept over at David Ariols last night and I woke up in Harlem. The sky was orange, bitch, the sky every leaf and this guy. I woke up at a cool noon okay, and I was walking down area when I really and I went for luncheon. I was just like, can you look at this guy? And I think, post acid trip, I'm really noticing that we didn't likely like we we made try to do it once a day and where no one's touched us. Well, you know, we see we see beauty and we see ugly. Did you guys do it up state? Now? It's the perfect like straight. It was really interesting. So were my friend good friends Sarah married the owner of Italy no one who is not Mario. They're like, there's like three partners. He's one of them, and he's a really he's a good guy. They're very in love. And we went to there like Italy blowout wedding and like over the summer. So it was like some gay guys and then like some very like broy like business guys and it was weird. It was interesting with them, yes and no. It was like kind of we were like wigs and costumes a lot, and like at first they were like no, and then by the end like they thought we were funny. But then but there was a moment where like one of the strikers just staring at I, just like I don't even understand what you're joking. It was like, what's the joke? Really good? They're watching football and we just started making this stupid joke. We were like, the leaves are turning at it's football season, grow the Jack Lanard's in the trash, it's yeah, we were just doing like an impression of like a football announce What is the joke of that? It was like the joke, the joke is that this football announcer cares its autumn season. I don't know, it doesn't matter, Like it's a funny voice. We think. I think it is so funny to make people explain what's funny about your jokes? Just imagine not having an ear for like, yeah, I know, no, it's interesting, but his friends have that ear it he has. He doesn't know, he doesn't know that he's wrong, And I will, I will this reminds me. There is someone on search Party who I won't name that like her, like one thing, her one joke was like her one line and she was like, why is blah blah blah blah. Basically she didn't get the line. And I was like, if you have to ask why, that's funny, Like you won't understand a single line of this show. Oh my god, I don't know who you're talking Patty Angel. I don't get it. It's lost on me. Yeah, what is going on with Like how do they keep rising? It's so they're victims, that's their brand. I mean, Joel will be the first to tell you that he's not doing well, and that is a valid Yeah, it's true. It's true. I mean he doesn't book, doesn't never see him on screen. Um, you know he's really he's passed his prime. Now. I did something weird yesterday, which is I watched Joel stand up online just as a fan. I love him. This is this is the real me, a Joel fan. He's a good person, very very good person. Friend. Okay, my friend, Okay, so fine? Were colleagues more more, that's true, professional colleague. Everyone in the storst professional colleagues except for both for me, well, you and I are do you guys make money doing this? We make a little bit. We've been on we've been on the same check. What's the exact amount? Um? So like, for example, we just um did Everlyne sponsorships. And then and I'm I'm even joking where this is just true. This is amazing. They were like, okay, now pick ten any ten things you want from the website, and well, oh my god, and we'll send it to you. That that's good, right, that's hello, thousands of dollars. That's better than money for you. But oh my god, it is kind of is I think it is because it's like, here's just you know, you're going to use it to shop anywhere or do whatever the fun. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's not money you could spend wrong exactly. It wasn't budgeted. It was just like pick tonight. That is actually I would love it if my checks were like clothing money, like ecasion money you needed ac countant. That just sounds like you need an assistant. I want to know. Hey, I want to know about this courtship. So same, just give us, give us whatever sordid things I'm going to get there before you. He says one thing always when people ask that embarrasses me so much. So I'm gonna like, basically, he's going to say that I reached out. That's the word nothing linked in. No, no, okay, So here's I'm gonna I'm gonna explain it from the beginning because Charles wasn't there for the beginning of it, right, Yeah, I was in a coma for seven years, so basically three seven years. We'll take you back to the New Orleans Film Festival to how they say, Yeah, Charles had to film festivals that weekend, first Feature four until then he they I think they were like flying him and putting up at a nicer hotel in Chicago. So he was like, I'm going to choose Chicago. I went to New Orleans and I was like expecting to see him, didn't know. I had vaguely hurt, but didn't like anything. He was at a Q and A for a movie he had like three lines in, and he like kind of like took over the Q because it was like failing eleven lines. Yeah, and I was like who. I was like, yeah, it was like, well, there are a lot of awkward people on stage. You definitely like made the Q and I feel more live. But I was also like what gives him the right? Like it was this person that, like I was very unstable. I needed attention, so I didn't then. And so I got to the festival and it was my It was my first like not gay film festival, like my first short to like all these gay film festivals. And I was like, when, well the Straits accept me? So still asking and so New Orleans was the first film festival that accepted me. And I was like, what program man? And then I was like, you're playing before a future And I was kind of pissed because I wanted to be in like a short program. And then it was I was playing before his future, which I which the first time you and I met was you did monologues at Magnet for the All Queer Yeah that's crazy, that's crazy. Anyway, Wow, that's so interesting when everyone used to do that. Okay, so sorry, keep going. So well, both of our movies were like two handers about like terrible people, and I like watched that movie and it fucking like yeah, Like I was like this is like I was like I need to know this person. I need to like I will like be involved in some way with this person, like married her for one to two years. Yeah, But I was like I was so in love with the movie. I was like, this is like the sensibility I'm going for and the sensibility I want to be. What's weird about? Okay? And then you messaged me on Facebook and we had like a good rapport. But I was like, I can't tell if this is like somebody I've got a crush on or just a friend or what, because I was like, he's really cute from his pictures. And then we made a plan to go to dinner, and then the night before we ended up at John and Kate show and we sat, they sat because it was really packed. They set us on stage facing each other each other, like we was like yeah. They put up like a row of chairs on either side of the stage and we just and we had to like and it was like, oh, it's you, Like we're gonna meet tomorrow, and like we were just cry and I remember like we glanced over at each other a bunch of times throughout that Then we had dinner the next night and it was like nice, but it felt like a general little bit like a little bit and then we got drunk and made out at the end of the night. Then didn't speak for like three months. I had just I had just like something was just started, something that was like very intense, and so I remember I remember going, this is like I don't even know if we've ever like rehashed all of this, but I went home to my roommate and I was like Bish or Charles, and then she was like it's Charles, and I was like it's and so I was like it's Bish did my thing like God did for a few months, We've all done. But I remember Kristen was like it just Charles is such a no brainer. Like she's not in your life anymore, and she's not acts communicated. Wait where's this now? Can we talk about you know what? We're just getting in a place like it was such a bad, a bad experience, and like now like three years later, like I'm comfortable with my relationship and like he's kind of still fingering stuff out, but like we can like text and be like how's it going for tex? But he lives here right now, he lives in Yeah, he just got a job at a they're buying him a house. They do that they literally if you get a good good job there, they like everyone who with what money? Bit Because n y U, John Sexton got in a whole dick load of trouble. The president of NYU, like it turns out, was like using the university's money to like him for the professors with homes and stuff like we had I was in a show and like he had invited us out to his fire Island home and we found out allegedly it was like weird. Allegedly, wow, that had been paid for and he got into so much trouble and n YU was already a fucking has a fire island. He had a fire island home and that it was like it was like the whole school like had this really disarming persona of being like did you ever see me on campus? Give me a hug, because this thing was the John Sexton hugs and he would hug every student. It was truly the right. Yeah, it was a weird fund up like PREMI too thing of like wait, there's something wrong about that. He was also like very like we're going to build a global universe universe, take over the entire universe universe title and in the show in the show I did. He kept it was like a Welcome Week show where it's like welcome here, you have a room that's weird, like to deal with each other but love. And also it was like really about like what to do if you were having like dark thoughts, because that was you guys were like in the era people jumping off the library when the or whatever. When they raised the Welcome Week freshman to senior year of high school, I would go and pretend I was sane, and I would like with my stage or I was like I knew a stage or person coming in every year, so I would just like saying there dorm and be like I'm a freshman, and then I would I would imagine if you did that now imagine. But then people the next year would be like, I can't believe I haven't seen you in a whole I haven't seen you since last Welcome Week a year ago. And I'm like, yeah, I've just been busy. But you were like fifteen, like like fucking anyone who had kid. Wow, I love that. That's the that's a screenplay. Oh my god. But they wanted us to make like the global University thing like part of it, and I was like wait, hold on a set, like and even me like one, I was like, where the fund is this money going? Like what is this a crazy front for the fact that there's a campus problem is the fact that there's a campus in Abudhani's like we fathom how where sixty thousand dollars per year per person goes like, I don't even get food. It's I can tell you from eating there the food I liked that you liked it. I love that you're a palette is not sophisticated. Um, I I need to I feel like Jordan's okay, let's let's just let's we're on Jordan And so we were you guys started into the last part, the last part fast Fish was Fish was fading out. I was so stressed, so anxious. I came to a brunch wet. Um. So that's what I told months later, I was like, you looked soaking wet the next time I saw you, know when you're dry, but you're a really bad emotional place that you're just we two ladies and you are like you've just you just you've just got a lot of like active follicles. That that's probably what I was just letting stressed all the time, so you were sweat well okay, So anyway, like we we hung out like every day. After that that we started hang out like every day. We became like best friends. And then when when Search Party was like green lit, I wanted him to write on the show. But then we had to put our feelings away because Jordan was like, I don't want to have any like weird, but these feelings came up literally the Saturday before the first Monday of the Room, I think there was we were like literally or at least like mutual adoration, you know, like yeah, yeah, like the Saturday before yeah, before the Room started. And then it was like, well, this is very confusing, like what are we doing? Know, the Saturday before was the Halloween. That's a whole I can't tell that story as far as humiliating. It just involves me on Molly begging to be a part of a three way and taking an uber that car as Charles Manson and not to Jordan's story, we had been making out with some guy, the three of us like all night, and then they went home together, and I was like, that's not how this night was gonna go. And then and then I literally on the way home. I asked the uber driver I was alone with her. I was like, have you ever been in left? What did she say? I don't remember that. I was also crazy because Vish was at that part took Charles aside and said, I give him to you. Yeah, he cut his karmick ties with you and was like you can have Jordan's and blessed like the courts. Yeah. But I was like, funk that, like, I'm not like you very much, but you've never been in control of your destiny. That is true, either Vish or I have. The Room started. The Room started, and we took like like two weeks. Like the first week, he was just like mad at me all the time. I couldn't handle it. I could not handle that three way rejection and Molly. I should not have done Molly like two days before the Room first half. It was a mistake. And it was my first writing TV writing job, So I was like sparentually depleted, and I would like couldn't look at Jordan's for like a week, and I was like, oh, like I'm going to get fired, like he hates my job. So then when did it? When did the up swing happen again? With like two months into the room, and then and then we were like good and happy again and like becoming best friends again. And then like two months into the room, we went to Palm Springs just to like figure out what we are and it was the weirdest, like it was such a weird thing, just the two of us, and we like hooked up again and then like but it felt like sad or empty or something. And then we watched The Intern and just made fun of the Internal Night, which it was so joyful forth, like we bondaged so hard, making like dissecting Nancy Myers movie. That that was the first time I was like, oh, ship, like I probably should be with this person. It was just so confused. It was so confused. I never had more confusion about like a person in my life. And then long story short, the room ended. And then then on Valentine, the night before Valentine's Day, Jordan had a party and then we hooked up again that night, and then we both texted a week later that we had wanted to say I love you when we had hooked up. And then and it was like do you know when like you're like in bed with someone and you're like thinking it over and over and over, but you like you can't say. I was like, I'm so like, I'm such a loser. And then I found out he was doing the exact same thing, and it was a big relief. Yeah, wow, that is a that is a crazy thing. Yeah yeah. And then two weeks later we were like, we're going to be a boyfriend, but then started like long distance because I was in New York and he was. It's hard to have that exciting moment and then be like and then let's be separate. There's so much there's so much texture to that. I love that it was such as a saga, so good and continues to be It's true. I I feel like I have to address this thing. I think it's about time. It's about okay. I think I feel like you all know except me. I so hearing dooran to talk about like like posing as a freshman or just posing as a student, like and like and like all the stage or stuff, like there is a part of me and this and this is just me, this out there and there's there's no like there's no good or bad way to take this. But like I feel like Jordan's was living this life that I had always sort of secretly wanted but was like pigeonholed by my parents into being like you're gonna make your in science, You're gonna do this, like like I would like growing up, Jordan would have been someone who I would have been like, oh my god, I want and um I feel like that's still true now. It's like, wow, these things follow us into adulthood. Right, are you saying relationship what I'm saying? No, No, No, I'm saying like Jordan's like is there but I've I mean like I've lost that a lot of that part of my Okay, Okay, so this is what I'm trying to get out, Like, yes, are do you like is that person still? Like I miss I miss being like I don't feel free as free really and like I miss I do miss like the like more adventurous. And it's not because of anything. It's just like you grow up and then you're like you want to be successful, and then you're working all the time, and then when you're working you're like, oh, like I can't just go to like Berlin for a month and people and like you can't do the things that like but I'm I really did do them. Like I did them, like from from like fifteen to twenty two. You started young. I started really young, and so like I don't feel like regrets and like I don't really want it anymore, but I do sometimes like miss just being like wild, but you had it. I had it, but I did do it. I feel that way with like silliness, like I miss being like free and silly and like people used to think of me as like the silly one, and now it's not. I don't know. I think well because Charles is the boss and so like, and it just stresses you out and then you stop being like fun. I don't know. It's like I miss like being like almost like everyone's little brother, Like I used to have that thing in high school, but I'm not that anymore. It's weird, But that's not exactly what you're saying. It's a similar thing though. It's like things that you you missed about yourself. But I also think if you're like into your thirties fucking people in Berlin, like it's that was my Yeah, I wouldn't. I had a terrible leading into that. I'm so sorry that I directed it at like Jordan's past or like upbringing but this is a thing you apologize, but it's it's this Okay, it's this life stick. Okay, you know what you guys know Matt Porter right, No, he's he's great. He um. The only reason I mentioned him is because I feel like he's like in that sort of same. He was like something, well, yeah, he wrote this thing about turning thirty that is basically just being like girls, girls, girls. It's about girls is ultimately, if you think about it, class it really is. It's she wrote this thing where it's like, Okay, you have all the structure up until you know you're late twenty, and then you just have to get used to like your thrusters turning off and you're just sort of floating in space for a while, and you just have to be used to the stillness of being like basically a somewhat finalized version of who you're going to be. And I feel like I am. I feel like you and I are in this place where we're like contending with that. You're like, is this, well what I was going to say to what Jordan's what what Charles was saying was like, you say, used to have this thing where people thought of you as silly and like almost didn't take you as seriously. I feel like people don't take me seriously enough. I want to be like that's my my kind of thing is it's like how much longer am I going to be looked at? Is? Like? I feel like you can't have both. Yeah, I don't think you can be with somebody that's like I take you seriously, but I love you and I want to like I don't know, it's not that doesn't work. Are afraid for you or want to be You're afraid of you or one of your best friends and you can't have It's weird because I feel like there's like and tell me if you guys identify with this. It's like what people think they're going to get from you and what people actually get from you. It's like are sometimes two different things, and they can't reconcile when they get something they're not expecting. So it's like the second you try to change it up, they're like, no, that's not you. I know you, or they see how you relate to another person to be like, oh I can relate to them the way that they relate to that person. Oh I'll act like that. Yes, I always constant I have the same thing though, like especially in like in the Search Party Room more the first two seasons, but like I'd say a pitch seriously and people would like laugh at it, and then like two minutes to go by and they're like, oh wait, that's real and good and like it would like come back to it, but they just assumed I was joking because like I just like have a face that it seems like I'm joking about everything. But i think it's my face a little bit. But I'm like, no, bitch, Like I'm I'm dead seriously, And is there a part of you that thinks like because you are in the room and everyone knows that you guys are together that they think of like maybe it's is there a part of you that projects that No, it's these these are facts. It was the first season too, we weren't together than either. Yeah, I know, but it's something I've dealt with my entire life of like people not like understanding that I'm serious. But now I'm I'm at a place now where like I know how serious I am, and so if I don't see it, I'm like it doesn't matter, Like I know, I know it can be weird. Though, Like I feel that way because my voice is kind of dead, Like I kind of have just like a dead energy sometimes, and so like if I'm joking, it's like sometimes the same voices when I'm serious, and then I'll like say something that's a joke and people be like oh yeah, yeah, and I'm like, oh my god, you don't know me at all. Like if you think I'm capable of that, it's it's like, oh my god, our friendships are shamp The way I am is I'm so big that it's like when I'm joking, you know, when it's borderline too much, and then when I'm serious, it's like, okay, yeah, we're here. But that's it's always extremes. You guys both have like the big, big thing, and that I do envy that. It's like, wait, what do you mean you do have the big thing? What do you talking about? Yeah? But you guys like can like be just like fun at the drop of you know what I mean. Like watching you guys do, I don't think there any live and it's like, oh, like they just know how to like even if it's mental illness, really mentally are you ever just like in a really bad mood and then you're like you turn it on. You're like, oh my god, I just did that. Yeah. I find that I can always turn it on. And also oftentimes I'm just on all the time and people it's too much for people, like kind of like I always remember like when Bow and Me, Sudie and Dave all went to Disney World like Orlando, I could feel that they were like, Wow, this is really this is a problem. You're here and I was like, and I was like, come on, we have to go because have to do this other ride. And They're like, we're in our late twenties and don't we have to rush? And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, same, we can. We can sit down. I'm not manic, and I'm like I see myself sometimes and actually one of the things that I realize one of my lessons quote unquote from the Acid Trip is I am like a man child, and like I that's been hard about becoming almost thirty years old and like at this point now where it's like, and this is maybe weird to say, but like I think people know who I am in the comedy community, but I don't have like a staffed job under my name, Like everything I've done, is that it's something I've created or you know, something that I've I've got done myself. And it's kind of like, huh, like this thing of like people not taking me seriously. I know it's coming from my own brain, but it's something that's like matches this thing about my personality, which is like a child, you're your Yeah, your best qualities are your worst qualities and like and like you couldn't be you without being a child, so part of your thing. But then it's also going to be like your downfall. Yeah, probably more in like personal relations said that I will die by my own hand. You like, it'll be like me just like what you're going to You're gonna tie masturbating to an Instagram feed. Yeah. I think it's good to be a child, like people love like Tiffany Hattish people, the people who are the sparkliest are like children don't hard and like I'm jealous of that because it's that sounds so free. You know, if you can harness it so that everyone is just doing something for you all the time, it's like you gotta get you have assistance, you people doing all the adult things for you. Yeah, you need childish while having assistance. That is, that's that's the children. Yeah, oh bow, and you need to brush your teeth. Yes, I wasn't saying that to you. I was just saying like you as in like the the universal, the royal you. You have beautiful, gorgeous teeth. Thank you. And I think that's because you use QUIP. 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Jordan direct but great, And then like I can't imagine how just involved that would be and to have that beat in some way not emotionally fraught, but just like there's this like, oh, you're working with like you're speaking another like I don't know, I mean this sounds that was really easy. The we're making a feature out of it, and that was we I feel like we delved into more of our real problems, and the feature is more like really about our problems. Like the short was like here's gay masculinity problems, and then the future is like here's that, and then here's also I have this problem, you have this problem. We just put him into the moment and now is a little harder to write because like you almost like writing a movie, you like literally have to agree what's right and wrong, like morally and like and we're having like different ideas about how we like bring ourselves into the relationship, like we have to come to a consensus to me to write this right. So like that was just like moments when like our characters need to be equally bad and you're like I agree, and I'm like okay, but your character and my character is worse than your character, Like I don't agree, Like, okay, this is a problem because now we have to talk about how just and then it's like I'm not saying this because I need to look good. Turn into a problem where like I'm not as bad as him in the relationship and no, hell, that's so interesting, Like I don't know, not that it's the same thing at all, but like if you and I were to like you and I have constant disagreements all the time about things that I basically boiled down to like morality ship, and like I don't know. That's like, well, I mean they get they they have to figure it out because the movie is being made. We just let it sit. You just keep working on it. Then it didn't like fix it didn't fix the problem. It's it's just kind of like no, it fixed us. Yeah we're yeah right, But eventually you do get down to like the product is something that you're both like yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel like we understand because it became like it was like super micro when we started, and then like kind of the way we like ended the movie is so macro. That's like, oh, we can blame all of our problems on society. I was kind of the time. Therefore, I said to say I'm sorry, and then the movies over that. But I do want to get to the question, Oh, this is the question we go to trials first. So this is the culture that made you say culture was for me, the pop culture that was defining it was either you know, it doesn't have to be like a specific film or musical artists or whatever, but that thing that that made you like you your touchstone pop culturally. I feel like for me, that's the earliest stuff. Like it's like all this stuff that was like handed to me at the beginning. And my dad, my dad for being like as much of a straight guy as he is, like for some reason, like loves like Blake Edwards and like loved like the Pink Panther, and like like it's a mad, mad, mad mad world, and like all those like goofy sixties comedies that like in mel Brooks that were just like so like there's such a queer perspective in the sixties. It's like so zany, and like they weren't afraid of it because they were like, well, of course it's not gay. We don't need and say gay yeah, and like it was the gayest thing that's ever been made, like lots of like champagne bubbles and like weird like you knowhere, yeah, and so like that stuff is still like I love camp deep, I mean we all do, but like I just feel like Broad in camp or such like dirty words today and it's like it's such a I mean camp less so because we're like taking it back, but like the broad straight people are taking it straight people. It's totally or like American Hustle where it's like straight people in wigs and it's like, oh god, it feels horrible. It just doesn't work when you do it a little bit. Yeah, that was straight for sure. I did like it, but it was it was it was like it's like igive he had a crowbar in his hand. Yeah, but it's crazy music. Yeah yeah talking to camera. Yeah, I don't know. I just love like I think broad is. I want to bring broad because it's you can still say lots of smart things and be broad like it's and people are broad as hell are cartoons like nobody is? Can I ask because my criticism of A Star is Born was that that fucking manager broad asked cartoon British manager ruined the movie. He haven't seen it yet, but I think every moment ruined that movie. You didn't like, Like I hated so much it's not even worth going into. Yeah, I mean, I was just considering the fact that like there was in this a movie that felt specific and then this broad ass character came in and ruined it, whereas like maybe the movie, if it really wanted to be, should have just been broad from the beginning, which yeah, we won't, we don't have to get I know it was. I felt like it was everything was so broad that like his existence made total sense to me. I will say, and you like shot me a dirty ass look in the theater and the first fucking shot at the film where he's just like unscrewing a fucking thing of whiskey or whatever. I was just or he did he medicates in some way, and I just laughed. I was like, already like this is this is like, so I shot you because I was like I knew this would happen, like I knew you wouldn't give it to know I was. I was just laughing at how thickly everything was being laid out. I was like, and I hear that, and then he was performing to like a Trump supporting crowd and then they're like we're nowhere in New York. Yeah, yeah, yeah, or whatever it is. It's like I remember, I remember Jordan's I think I remember seeing it on Jordan's story like a few days later he was like, just like ships on the movie, and I was like, okay, cool, Like I'm not the only person, like I don't know what I call it the blue and black dress. It's like, yeah, you either see it or you don't. Wow. I think I was swept away by it at first. And I do still like the movie, like watching it, I don't think it and I think that that's I mean, it's Lady Got in a movie. It's like that's still what it is. But you know, I do get yeah, but broad, Okay, maybe I'm just like thinking in terms of like the man te Venus of it all. But broad for some reason is equating in my brain as like not know as as like offensive or like not well because it was because because in in like a non woke time when we did World Comedy, of course it was offensive. Because we can still get away with that. I think it's like big characters where everyone has like a hat or something and it's like power. Right, So I would love Austin Powers totally comedy, and I swear I was not like virtue signaling in anyway. But but you're right. But I was like, but I'm imagine if like Murder on The Oriented Express had been funny people like well, like like in the day, they would even make dramas really broad and like that. Like now I feel like they have to be so real and round or boring or boring. Everything is boring now, I know, because everything is so like trying to Like on Netflix, it's just like all those titles are like fake movie titles from inside a movie and it's just like a copy of something. And it's crazy because the OSCARS is so obsessed with boring movies like Spotlight One. I was like, I mean, I get that this is well made and about something quote unquote important, but dear God, but it's it's a procedural TV show. It's like it's like literally the beat by beat Law and Order. I had such a feeling of like, oh my god, like when you've been in an office feeling you're like, I can't have more fluorescent lights like when I love that movie, I was like, I'm so glad I'm outside. Would say Michael Cyril Craton was amazing and he and his stuff was all outdoors with Rachel's they managed to light the outdoors. Really right, well done movie. Everyone in it is great. But it was fucking but subject matter why execution wise it was not. I mean it was just very prestigiing, you know what, at least like doubt, Like it was stage that was fucking violent, streep and the fucking monologues to God, Viola, Davis, Fish Finches, ordinary people, Amy Edwards, Edwards Adams ards as Amy Adams part I would have got, oh my god, James James sister James. Yeah, like that doubt and now it's like imitation, like those kind of movies people can get through those. There's such a distance I never feel close to. And I think that's why I'm like, fucking gun to my head when the when the ballot arrives in my hand, like I am, you're just I love it, Oscar about who has a gun to there? Make make it? Make the movie three minutes short that goes to Sunday, that's gone to my head. Oscar voting and there's two choices. No Lions, No lion make a movie about a bunch of faggots who hold an Oscar voter hostage. I had an idea, yes, about a woman who goes into a coma and wakes up at like she's like fifty five years old and she has an Emmy and she has no idea how she got it. Idea like, wow, don't see a guy, I'm giving it. The I P is like a lock for Jordan, Thank god. Wait, what were you gonna say? I was gonna say, like, I will if I ever do become someone that votes on that ship or makes any decisions, I will vote. I will vote for the fun ship. It's never going to vote for the boring ships. And if Star is Born is nominated for Best Picture and everything else is boring, you're gonna you will know what I will vote for, honey, and it will not be fucking whatever the fuck? Green Book is what. It's a movie that everyone's talking about. Likeschel Ali and right. It's a weird reverse driving this daisy thing right where it's like he's like this like vegos playing this like fast talking, somewhat racist dude. And then Herschel is just like rolling his eyes in the backseat. It's crazy. I'll tell you what I saw a first man, No thank you, thanks, and the thing is like it's really well done, but I don't care. And then you know what's fascinating about it is the movie fucking knows the most interesting parts. And then the movie comes to life when it's about her. And there's this one scene spoiler for anyone that hasn't seen it. I don't think you guys care, but one of the one of the astronauts that is, yes, he does make it um um, but one of the astronauts passes away and Apollo one's prep mission and his wife, his wife is standing out in the passes on. His wife is like standing in the street one day, just like staring at it, staring at and Clarifloy goes out and it's like, what's going on and she just kind of looks at her like she doesn't know why she's in the street, And I'm like, here's an interesting movie about these wives that had Bally like even even like the space of the thing of the supportive wife and the only woman in the cast is so annoying. But there was this interesting story there about like the grief that comes along with and this daily trudging along like my husband will probably die. That was an interesting thing in the movie which they couldn't explore because god forbid, they make a movie about the Armstrongs and it's not about something that used to something I feel so strongly like well made things pissed me off so much because it's like anything you can like learn how to do. I don't care, like you know, it's like math. I'm like, I'm not going to be impressed by someone who gets math in the wrong hand and yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but like no if it's well made and has the soul. But it's like it can't just be well man, I'll tell you something. Do you speak about doing math? Fucking I loved Hidden Figures. I love got to scream and give me Taraji screaming in my mind. Like the Hidden Figures poster is them walking away from the rocket ship, but then they're in like an indoor plaza, like they're walking like unto like tiles, but it's just like where is this rocket ship? That also connects the truly the most like action packed moment in that movie is Taraji getting on the phone to call buzz Aldrin that like as he's walking into the rocket, like that's that's like the most well high octane. It was about something we hadn't seen before and it but it's still like tripped like straight white America into going because it was about space and you learned about people that you had never heard about, and it was can't be moments like her running to the bathroom because she had to use the segregato bathroom and it's like she almost lost her job because she had to run half an hour. Aren't you so over trying like having to trick straight people into watching just like yeah, it's like so I'm gonna say what I need to say, but like it's also murder murderer container of all. We had like a very long conversation last night with a straight guy that like it was just like well, agree to disagree, like because and we were trying to be like as like no, but like you know, minorities have had a really hard time for years, and like it's okay to feel victimized and like be vocal about it, like yeah, but you have to like you know, like want the other side to hear you in order to have progress, and I was like, no, that's so embarrassing, Like aren't you embarrassing? And it's it does it does feel like it's like now some some minorities over others. Like I'm it's a long story I won't get into, but like I've gotten some very like homophobic feedback in the last month from from from me, from from Charles M. But like the like the common one that like I just heard on Friday, it's like, why can't this be a show about people who happen to be gay, not a gay show, And it's like someone who happens to be gay? This is a big I don't think so, honey. I have is people saying, well, being gay is just one part of me. No, being gay is like a huge part of Remember after after t R Night came out or was forced to come out of the closet, the thing that he said was, but being gay is not the most interesting thing about me, and already absolutely right, and there's not much more but like his gayness is not at the forefront. But whatever, I mean, what if it was, like who cares? It's just such a stupid thing that we've learned to say because straight people need to hear it, and that is wrong progressive to them, it's the right thing to say. Still it's crazy. They're like, I think I had like aunts be like you know what, Matthew, when when they first found out I was gay, they were like, you know, we don't even care, like and we would love anyone that you brought over here. And it's like, yeah, this is like the thing that you're supposed to say. But like say saying because I don't need this, or just like great, great, I like saying I don't care to someone who comes out. It's not you're literally being like I don't care. It's been there, so I have to say I don't care. It's it's yeah, it's more like this thing of like you know what, it's nobody's business and we support you, but we're telling you it's nobody's business. It's like, well, everyone else's sexual proclivities are my whole fucking ye. The way they sell everything, the way that everything is marketed to us, everything everything else that I said this literally to that Shrike guy last night. I was like, you have to understand that, like every structure that your people has built is the world we live in. Like literally the words we speak were created by right, right, So like how could you not see that? Like, well that a disadvantage And he's like, well, what he was saying, I know because he was saying I had I said everyone is homophobic, and he was like that's not true, and I was like no, but everyone is, like we are all participating in America, which is a homophobic institution, so by proxy, everyone is homophobic, everyone, every single person. And he was like, but that means like everyone hates gay people and I was like no, no, it literally doesn't. It means like even growing up, if you said like that's gay, you're a homophobic person. And he could not accept that. That was like he's like anything incidental isn't an act of aggression, and it's like it is like it just is like everything that participates in badness is he's not and it doesn't mean you can not be a good person like and just like exercise self awareness and want to be better. Totally. It's that thing where it's like someone can't accept whatever implicit bias they have in terms of races, then this this disqualifies me as a good personal Like I can't It's like no, just my personhood when you say I might have prigs and that is not It's like what we have to start telling straight people is like, don't worry, this isn't about you, and you're actually that's the that's the worst thing that you can hear that, But that's what they're asking. That's literally what they're asking for their like, I will join your effort as long as I'm not burdened by my own experience, as long as you tell me I'm doing a good job. They're also freaking out that word like not talking about them as much like they're like used to being talked about all the time. It's like with First Man, the controversy around it being like they didn't show the American flag being put into the Moon's surface and they're saying it actually it kind of flapped, and they're saying like a big reason why, um is because Ted Cruise fucking rang the bell on it and he said to conservatives, don't spend your money on this because it's anti American, And that's all people need to hear. Even make you for them, it makes you. I was I had to drink with Ruby Ruby the world just meet her recently? Yes, And is the most I have never and I love herself, but she we were talking about like how all of this ship happening and all the like this this stuff I'm going through with like my projects being too gay for people, and it like it makes you want to go underground, like you're just like okay, then like then you don't want it? Yeah, Like then like I'm never going to impress you, so like I just like have to figure out how to like make my stuff. Who wanted the underground now? Though I guess it's just for the internet then, But I don't think there isn't. I think there needs to be a research and I think there is. And it's so funny because we before we have this podcast, we would go in and pitch the people and they would tell us every single time two niche two n two. Now we're succeeding with the most niche fucking thing ever, and it's like, well, you never gave it a chance. And then to hear from those same people that they want to be a part of it, it's it's it's safe. And John actually talked about it too early. He was like, when you call me niche, you might as well just call me a faggot, Like, we know what you are saying. Do you know what you're saying? Um? Do we call them out? Like? Do you like when I was too young too and to experience? Now I would and now I would say, Okay, here's the thing you asked to meet with, Matt Rogers. You know what I mean? Like you brought us in the room because you liked us. This is us and we know what us is. You don't, And I get that that's hard to and you guys must deal with it all the time, getting network notes. I mean, I know I speak to our close friends about the notes that they get on their projects and stuff like that. It's frustrating to hear from people who think they know you better than than you. And yes they are negotiating a lot um, but still it's like, take a fucking chance to be brave about the stuff that you like or otherwise, just get some fucking C C plus talent in here and they'll do whatever you say and don't ask to me with me. Yeah, if you're not going to make what I want to make. Yeah, when you were we were having this conversation, you guys were talking about all the ship that's going on like in the industry or just in the world in general. Both both. It's like, what what I'm experiencing with the thing I'm going through right now is people being like it's too risky, so it limits the audience. And they're right because like it is so divided that like some the people who aren't going to like it are going to hate it and they're not gonna watch it. So it's like, if the goal is to have everyone in the universe like yourself, like you're gonna be a shitty art now, yeah, it's gonna be the worst. Yeah, And so like right now, I feel like everyone is like they're not like they're not on the right side, they're not on the right whatever, but they're trying to find things so close to the middle that they can pretend to be liberal and still make shitty Stiff already have the liberal peak and TV like, and I feel like now it's going down. I would agree because and I like the show, but marvelous Mrs Mason, but the first party is baseline marvelous, Mrs masl I think is you saw it one that comedy, I mean, sweep the Emmys, it does well, and we have all agreed it exists or something. It is a pitch on the paper that everyone said. This is something that the most people will like because it's going to satisfy people who want female stories, who want stories about you know, women in comedy, specific stories because it is a specific story. It's also like takes place in an era of time when we were nostalgic for it looks good. You know, um, it's a chance, and you know what, Like I get why it is successful. I also think it is emblematic of what you were saying, which is not it's not a risk, no, not at all. Yeah, it just sucks that like we we again came up and in generation that it's like, oh my god, like maybe we can do this. It's in a real way, and like maybe we can like get real money to make our stuff and not do it John Waters style and not spend like a thousand dollars on a movie. And so like now if it turns back, that's like such like oh my god, like I have to rethink everything that I've worked and you think I am like experiencing it so hard right now. So like i I'm who knows though, like in two years, it's like everything is gonna be like, there's five Netflix is that you have to sign up for, and like each one is going to have seven thousand pieces of content and no one will ever remember a single artist in history, and like, I don't know what it's gonna do. I mean, I'll just the fact that John and Kate couldn't get there exact and with so many platforms out there, not one of them would buy that show. We saw, we saw it. It was great, it was them, and there is an audience for that, and it's just like, seriously, these are two of the most talented people coming in the world, in the world. Can I see one thing about marvelous Mrs Basel, Yes, I can't believe that font that I dream like cocktail font with sparkles is because like to see that on a billboard and be like, that's a great show. You know. I like the show and Rachel Brown Anna is a friend, and I think she's so talented and she's amazing on the show. But the title of the show drives me insane, and I just think it's not a risk show, you know what I mean. It looks like Nanny McPhee, Like from the n McPhee. It looks like she must be a witch. Rights like like she's marvelous. She's gonna a pretty little witch. Got up to some tricks in this shows. In this show, there's gonna be some tricks happening. Yeah, now you know what I love to do sometimes? What do you love to do sometimes? Is to just lounge in my room? Go on Everlyn Jane and truly shop till it's not cute, but it is cute because it's from Everline. It's always cute. I mean, ever Lyne is the cutest. And here's the thing. Um, let's just imagine a scenario. 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She is in this new movie called Destroyer, and she plays like a woman who's going to kill everyone. It's like a d glam thing. But it's so funny that woman puts on a wig and she is a wig actress. Yeah, she is boy e rased. She like it's like, oh, these people don't go together like Lucas Hedges wrestle. This new version of Rustle Crow that we didn't know he was slowly dying in a trailer somewhere and now and and the goal given in like full Dallas. It's like, wait, wait, wait, this is not an American family I have ever seen. Everyone is in a different drag in that movie. I mean, that might be the closest thing we're gonna get this year to a broad drama. Boy race, is that fair to say? Well? The thing is, did you see actually the Bible up? And he's like, do I throw it? Like in it be in box lux might bee like, is glam glam drags? Have you seen this trailer for this movie Natalie Portman in box Box. It's essentially she's playing Lady Gaga And I know what, do you know what the movie is about? It? Well, she's not the main character. It's Jude Laws the main well sort of, so Natalie Portman takes over the second half of the movie or half of the movie. And if it's non linear, I don't know. But the movie is about a girl who survives a school shooting and during a tribute to her classmates that have died, she does a performance and they sign her to a records and Lady Gaga pop star, and it's about the trauma of that being the reality of her success. I love that. I feel like, well, I had such concerns for Ama Gonzalez. I'm like, you're too famous. You don't like she's she's like, she's a oh my god, she's the new doctor who God, But that you're famous now you don't know how to deal with its show or and the other one and the other one to David and you want to know why, It's because they're both attractive kids. And the thing is like you want you worry about what they're gonna do with someone like that that and you have to think me. Media, they look at you and they don't think message. They think money. Yeah, that's that's true. You Bowen, that's me. They will get you and they say money message. No, Bowe has no message. Absolutely yes, sex message. He's not a message. I think Fox Loox looks really good. But don't the fact that that's what it's about make you want to see it more because it But don't the fact that that's what it's about. Yeah, that's me, that's what it's about. This is mckensas mckensis. This is a call back to mckensas my characters. I saw this character that you worked with, right, just marry the ketchups. Oh my god, somebody you work with that like a restaurant, Oh my god, who was married? I don't remember this. She was like, just go marry the Yeah yeah yeah. I think I got an altercation with someone at work and the way she ended the conversation was to go marry the catch. That was the end of that. Whether I did it or not, I was bad at my sidework. So I don't know, But are we like um part of like your crew, do you feel like like on the periphery on look at you too? And I'm just like I'm a little bit like inspirational. Yeah, I'm like they're doing something. I feel like you guys are having we look I want to be part of that New York I think, what can I say? What this is? This isn't New York and l a thing because I think I think the way I see like, oh, you guys in Los Angeles and like you guys are like working, and I think you guys see us in New York and we're like performing. And Sudi says this sometimes where she says, like study at like at like four, got her job at U S and now and so she sometimes I say to her, like, God, you have like this job. You have this like boss ass job is like all this cool stuff. And she says, but you guys are out there, and I was like, you know you're the grass is always. But I look at you guys and I think doing a cool fucking show that everyone loves that you guys like must be to stand by because it's such a good show. I mean, come on, what's better than Search Party? John should be up for an Emmy. You should be up for a perennially and should be and and the show should be up for writing Emmies and directing amazing, and you know it should be. And I think people do think of it as a prestige thing. But it's this weird thing because I do watch these awards races and it's like this attitude about knowing that something is better than everything else, but saying we have to count out because of the network. It's the same story with crazy ex girlfriend. You know, well both of them have like a queer perspective. And even though like Search Pretty is an overtly gay, I mean it's gotten like it it entered the door not gay, and it's gotten gay and especially this season. But like I think just like queer perspective is like, oh well that's good and that should go over here and we should adore it that we shouldn't like let it in all the way. And it's like you kind of have to be and this isn't this is disagreeing with what you're saying. It's different, but like you kind of have to be like boy or race or something, you know, like where it's like here's gay and like the most obvious for in order, it is like it's that like it is niche, like no matter what, like, but these things that are there are so many things that are nominated that are also niche. I think it genuinely comes down to like the politics of the hole. You don't see a representation of the best off. You see a representation of the best or it slips through the cracks because it's like at Homes with Amy Sierris, where it's like, but there's no competition. It's like, yeah, comedy is a big competition that Schmidt. Yeah, and as as long as it's as long as it's a thing, it will be up there. And I love Kimmy Schmidt is the only funny comedy up there because Atlanta is great comedy. Marvel's Mail is good. It's well made, but it's not imagine imagine like laughing out loud. I left out, I left my fucking ass off the Unbreakable because there's jokes. These other shows don't have the jokes. When she's like I left the tuna in the fridge to long. Yeah, it's set up and that show is broad that is brought Tina Fey gets brought. Yeah, she does. Yeah, she really does braces camp. She does. Should we move on to Jordan? Jordan? I was like, I really was thinking so hard about this and answer answer going to say it's so pretentious. But I felt like the first thing I fell head over heels in love with was Sondheim. And that's that's the moment I realized that I wasn't ever going to be in real culture because like I would like try to introduce Sondheim to like my high school friends and they wouldn't get it. At still, did you take all your friends to Todd? I took us all. I said. I knew I had a premonition that like this wasn't the thing I was going to sell down. I like, but I brought friends over to watch Into the Wood, like the whole thing into the Woods, like people left the recording of Burne. They don't get it. Yeah, And I was like, if you if, like if the thing that is like making my heart star more than anything, like that's making me think in a different way than had isn't being understood, like this is just what I have to Like that just speaks to you sort of having a more advanced taste brain, brain, What did you saying that night at the Duke Pus that you came in with Clarry Owens. You say, he says, Sunday in the park and then you said, you know, you might have saying ladies who want great? Oh yeah I remember, yeah, yeah, yeah, yo, oh my god. That was that was that was a wonderful moment. And that was the first time we met in person. I think so because we had been internet friends. I don't even think we were internet friends. I don't think the first night I thought you weren't like wanted me gone, No, oh my god. Something. That was always a weird negotiating thing for me because I was the first lady of the duke Pus at that time, because Henry was my betrothed. Yeah yeah, and so people coming in you were like a little like not even people coming in. I was always just kind of like negotiating, like I wanted to make sure everyone's having was having fun. Yeah that is actually, now that you think about, that's what I sensed. It was like there, like I felt like I was hosting. Yeah exactly. And honestly, I would love to to sing again. So I don't get That's like one part of me that like I have completely lost and I miss singing. Can I tell you something? I hate that that's the impression I gave off because not the first time. Don't don't worry. But like my manager Karat told me that the first time she met me, she still thought I was being c U n T y to her and I was like, I hope, I don't like give off this her words. Um, but it's just like I don't. I hope that's not the impression I give up. Well maybe maybe like maybe there was like a few months where you were doing that and like now you're overhead? Was it as terrible plague? And don't the fact that you were struggling mean that you do you do that to him? Don't you feel that? Don't like? Um, that's that's a great answer. So the best best show for you? But yeah, what do you love? I mean the one the first one that, yeah, I mean like Sunday was so huge for but then Comedy was also really huge for me. Those I would say, those are my two and I have very soft spot for. We're going to see Company. We're seeing Company in London. Well, yes, Jeffrey was telling us, you guys are all going to the Christmas. Yes, he did tell us that that sounds Wait can everyone say there sometimes? Yeah, I mean Mine is Mine is basically I think it's like a masterpiece. Mine is Sweeney. I mean I just think it's talk about specific and blowing it out and just music, the performances. I love that you can still argue about character motivations. I loved the way that it can be interpreted so many different ways. I just watch watching that comedy as an adult, I'm like, that is Sanheim is such the artists you look up to because you knew where he was at in his life every show and it's like you watched Sween and you're like, oh, like he really had a darkness about what life was like. That show is so about how humanity is bad. And so I've been in those places and like to make pieces of art like reflecting everything you feel in a certain time period. And it's like companies all about being single. Merrily is all about dreams, like like you see like at what he was feeling at every stage. It's just it's Shakespearean, I feel, I mean, the characters are I just at any time there's a performance of it, I always seek it out, whether on any level, because I'm just like, I just love this and that some of the music is so truly beautiful. I mean it's startling, and I love that it's scary. It is scary. It is very scary. I mean the music is shocking everyone everyone's filthy, and everyone's like a beggar. The movie bothered me so much, But even the movie, I'm like, I'll still watch it because it's Sweeney and I still think there's good things. Then it wasn't shot for a musical either, just it was. It was a total mist but the world want to be in it no matter what. There's things about it I love, like like I like, I think that Helen and Bottom Carter shouldn't have been cast in the part. But there's elements of her performance I like. I like her team being like really racked about the things she's doing. I love that how obviously in love with him she was. Sometimes the way Angela Lansbury plays it, it's like so wacky that I missed her motivations and I know that's kind of like I think, don't you feel like she was like like, instead of singing to like you, she was singing to the back of her head. Yes, like she was like trying to bo Yeah, don't you feel like, I mean you couldn't understand the words, which is at least bite then and if you can't understand the words in a Sondheim thing, yeah, yeah, every song is just there's a whole world in every song. I love that. Don't you feel Like with the Helen and Bottom Carter, You're always like she's like your friend. That's like up there at the talent show and you're like, please win, Like you are like please please, like they kind of miss the mark and you're like, but I do know her, and like yeah, I mean, and you know what. The thing about her is just like do something different. You know, I think her best performances Beltrick's strange, it is, that's her freest. Yeah, that's not even do something different, it's like do what you do well as well as as well as you can. I agree with you. I send what I said oceans Ate like exposed like her, what's like crazy about her as an actor? It was just like every it was like she had nineteen reactions to one sense and they would keep all of the name and you're like, oh my god, cut away from her, away from her she was like, no, she was just giving you options to all the are you crazy? You can do not batty, she can do grounded like big Fish was her just Oh my god, I should hope everything what happens that Then I recently said on this pod that makes me cry every time. I used to watch it if I needed to cry, and then I watch Yes still to this day. Well I still haven't seen Company, and I still haven't seen Assassins, but Assassins and there's probably something else I still haven't seen. But I would say, I mean because like I always, I knew Into the Woods really well before we started dating. Then Jordan's we went to go see a few more son and things, and I would say it's between Merrily and um sending the partner George, like I can't like Merrily. I was like we saw in l A. It was a pretty good production and overall and I was Wayne Brady, Wayne Brady. It was next resented, resented every moment of doing got Lyne. I think he was on pills, Like I really think he's like gone, no he in oh sorry. I was like wait, but like he has yesterday own like that whole Like Fran he literally was for foreting. It's such a gift to have that be given that song. Yeah, God, Um, but I don't know. I just love the like all this stuff about success and like the sadness of like friendships part and like I don't know, I feel like I felt that now and like just like harnessing that energy of like hope, Like don't you are you so nostalgic for being so young and hopeful? Like when I first move so genius that the most positive song is this last song and when you first moved to New York and you're like looking up at that, like you saw the light on the buildings and you were just like fuck my future and it was so like powerful. And now I'm like I'm late. It's like nothing, It's like I'm so hungry. That's like that's my thoughts now. And then you welcome around for thirty minutes because you can't decide what to eat and that's this morning. I'm not. I'm just sad about our time, I know. Or what's the other one though? Um? I mean the song where they're all like putting on the play together up door? That was that? The show in Ladybird too, was that? Yeah? Which yeah, yeah, it's such a happiness March blind Mark, Yes, yeah, this is boring, but I feel like Sunday Too or Into the Ones was the first thing I saw, just like the Tap, like Sumter because it says everything about every every single thing, and like, um, and I thought that movie was a lot closer. I actually didn't. There's a few things that I was like, I don't want to see James Cordon in my life ever, and likely Blunt was fine, but I just thought like it like she was good. I just really like to til and too fake. At the same time, I get that like the look of it was not music. They're all They're all well, I have a theory. I have a theory about why musical movies don't work now, just because like for musical to work, it has to look fake enough that you could suspend your dis believe that people are singing, and like when they look real, you're like, wait, my brain doesn't understand, Like it just seems that why why like old movie musicals work and like New Ones, it's the same problems like Trassic World or any of these movies. It's like I can't tell what c G I like, I just just stopped my eyes hurt book. I'm like, this is like I'm not impressed. Like after two minutes, I'm not impressed, and it looks wrong. They're going to suck up my kid, aren't they. They're going to suck up Lion King. I mean, Wicked is like if it gets funked up, it's kind of fun to suck it up, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know. To me, I don't need it to be the best, but I know other people have that. Like, No, Arianna is doing it. She's going to be She's going to be. She could be Glenda. She would be a better, would be a better Linda. I can't have any of the comic personality. No, you do not have to be an actress to play Alpha, to be an actress to Glenda? Righty funny. I'm sew in my head about this. Who's gonna play Linda? Joel said, this actress Dove Cameron, Who's who is in Very Good? Who's in Hair Spray Live? Yes, she played Tussle and that was a very were like enough did we like her? Mean? I wanted this is annoying, but I wanted Anne Hathaway and Kristin Bell. But now they're too old, right, I mean, yeah, yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't want to see Kristen Bell do that. I don't think she's right for it, but I just I don't. I don't think I know every choice. Yeah, I like I could probably do every choice that she would be. I don't agree. I think I think she's like a dark, bitchy energy that I think that good place, A good place which I didn't see from her before. Can Margot Robbie saying she'd be good? We were like she cannot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I like too much of like a I'm a huge fan. Yeah, I don't really know her besides Titania, She's she's you know, who would be a fucking amazing Linda is Vanessa Bear Like yeah, like it would be so genuinely funny and like but like Glenda has like a weird, froggy voice as like she needs that. Yeah, Like I don't know, especially like young people. I don't know how Nicky Cameron or whatever. I'm like, oh she sucks, like just because I don't like any young person. I don't know. I'm like author a shoe store, I don't I don't know there's store Dove Cameron's Instagram is Instave Cameron. I just remember one time, like Jennifer Hudson, who I follow on Instagram, posted Dove Cameron singing and you're just hearing the background Jennifer Hudson and going. She just looks like she's one of those people who like is She's like she's the female Zaccaffron, where she's so good at this thing, and then like she puts on like gender drag, like aggressive dragged to be like I'm a woman or I'm a mask. Dude. It's like, wait, this is Dove Dove camera cameras. Where is that? Zac eFront is like right right right, right, right right right, Um, okay is it time? It's time? Okay, we're gonna do it. I don't think so, and I don't think so. Sorry for did we have to come with stuff for the podcast? You know what do you mean? Like we don't really have I I thought I had one, and then I found out that John Early has been doing like a whole set about it for like years. Well why you just go off the cuff, go off the wet. A couple of times like the one I'm going to do to night is like not, so then we're gonna go first and then and then you guys go, I think, but it's not like you don't have a trouball situation, so we should have something. Yes, yes, yes, um, is there anything in this bag? Muffin? Okay, muffin? Yeah? Sure, they're mostly dry. Yeah. I mean there's a good part and it's the top and the rest of it is a fucking night. You have something. I have something, right, this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so on the time starts now. I don't think so honey barbecue like barbecue food. I don't think because you're sucking sticky, you really like you fill me up immediately. I don't think so honey or sweetie or a sweetheart food that the second I've taken two bites of you, I'm full. Because I like to enjoy everything. I don't think so honey barbecue. Whenever you are in front of me, I ate the mac and cheese and then mashed first, watch I go to you last. I don't think so honey barbecue. There's a lot other foods I'd rather eat. Here are some Japanese food. Here's another one. Fast. Honestly, any sort of fast food. I would rather ingest it than you barbecue bitch. I don't think so, honey. Also, every single barbecue restaurant there's a long ass line because a lot of these other motherfucker's like barbecue, and that's good for those honies, but for me, I don't think so, honey. I'd rather go to let's list, uh southern restaurant, which is never mind. I went to Timberlakes Restaurant UM in New York and it was trash. It was not good, and don't go there. It's a barbecue joint. And I don't think so, honey. That is I tell you the feeling full thing, and you're right like three by immediately you really with barbecue, with ribs, with like barbecue anything. You start eating it and you're like something about the like hearty smell of it or something, but you're always and you get tricked by barbecue because you think you want to eat it because barbecue sauce is good aroma. And then you're hungry and you said there and you're like, oh wow, I I'm so full. And also like ordinarily you'll have like a beer with barbecue and then you're filled full with that chips are pretty good. The barbecue chips. I think you think that's the same thing. Yeah, no, I don't think. I think it's an exception. And I want to say something. I am all about barbecues, the events, the events they bring people together, the people together, it's the it's the actual cuisine. It's not of barbe don't know he's never never had a burger, You've never done so many things. You never watched television? Do you ever watched TV? Andy barbecue at the same time, No, honey, because I'm famously very much of Charles Rogers, I don't watch television or clearly I'm on the record, I don't think so, honey. Barbecue. Wow, we're family. Probably we were. We probably are. And then Jordan and I related. That's why when he was He's like, why am I not in New York? Welcome be there. We leave it with different like we came in like you guys aren't dating. I'm just kidding. Um. That was that was a miss of thank you. I just felt I felt I needed to say it. Thank you. And now it's Bowen Yank's time because I've done this before. Tell me what you know when I if you have done it before I will stop tap me. This is I don't think so, honey, and it's time starts now. I don't think so, honey, me not getting a sucking. I voted stick in my absent and I've done this. Stop the clock, Stop the clock. How many times did you vote it? This week? This week you did this? I got I got two ballots in the mail. It's it's that that that is a trap for fraud for the man by the way that has to stay in. That'll stay in. That's fine, that's fine. Um okay, I've got something. And this is the second attempt at this. I don't think so, honey. Time starts out. I don't think so, honey. Sacks Fifth Avenue, bitch. These Gucci shoes that I just bought us my present to myself for my birthday were too expensive, but I made an exception. But honey, we it just opened up my eyes to this whole new world and thinking, shouldn't everyone be afforded the privilege of wearing a deconstructed uh Kenzo sweater? I mean god, I mean, like, who these are? These? These are? These are bullshit markers of status that I think, um should just be completely democratized. And for the price point to be so egregiously high is truly a travesty, you know what. I think Sacks is the next to fall and with with the Lord and Taylor's of the world, I think, or I think we're I will mourn the day that Sacks, you know, leaves all of our lives. But I mean we're ELSEI whatever. What I'm trying to say is these shoes that I a bought were too expensive. And I also do want to just tell everyone that I bought my Scucci shoes for for my birthday and um, you know what, like that's like me just like becoming more self actualized as a person as I move into my thirties. Um, and I hope everyone knows that I have it figured out. And that's one minute, you know, you bow and yang he she do love to spend a dollar or two on the clothing items. It's important. It's important if it makes you feel fat, absolutely, and like that's that's I'm capping it. I think that's I think, like I buy thousands of articles of clothing for cheap, and like I think it is nice to buy like a fewer things but expensive. I have discovered this too. I feel better about the quality of the stuff I'm wearing. I'd rather pay fifty dollars for one good shirt than each two advantage kick though, like I found my places in l A and I'm like, I can't stop. That's okay, But sometimes is also like quality. I feel like, if you don't keep buying clothes, it's like you can't like grow your personality is And that's why America's falling. It's a close thing. It's a close thing. All right, let's go in the same order we asked culture questions. Solder Charles First, this is impt and this is Charles Rodgers. Is I don't think so, honey, And this time starts now, I don't think so honey. Eye contact psychotic. It is a rule by God. It doesn't make sense. It puts you in your head. It's the most natural and most easy thing that you're ever supposed to do, and somehow it has started wars. It is true. What I fucking really hate is during a comedy and someone like there's like on screen, something's funny happening, the whole audience last, and then somebody turns to you and tries to share a laugh. Evil psychotic behavior you're not going to enter your soul. And the second you say eye contact, all bets are off. Nobody can look each other in the eyes. It starts normal eye contact. We can't even relate. It's crazy. We should gauge your eyes out, we should replace them. I don't know, honey, I contact. Let's see what else I hate about eye contact. I hate. I hate that when I can see how people think of me when they look at me, and I said, the micro microaggressions. Even looking at you right now, I can see, I see, I see a guardedness. I seem do the thing where when I am laughing at something in a large movement, will turn and do it. So scary to receive that. Usually that means you're my favorite person there. That's so sweet. Sweet. I didn't do that in my best friend, my best my best friend, Allison, I wrote in her yearbook. UM, I know you don't say cute things like this, but I just want to tell you that whenever we're watching something and I think some things funny, I always look at you first to see if you think it's funny too. That's really so. It's like a dependency. It's like a dependence coach, it's let's enjoy it together. I like, yeah, I feel that. I feel that. That's I always grab you and look at you. Yeah, I've never had a laugh to myself. When we see something, you guys laugh together. That's nice. We always laugh together. I'm doing more like strange like people you don't know. It's more like friends friends. Yes, yes, but that happens, and it's wild. There's somebody I went in what you with who was like that horse like it was like, honestly, sometimes I use eye contact, like at bars and stuff like, I use eye contact as like a thing of like just so you know, I do want to suck you. One time, one time it really almost not it works a lot, but one time it worked with this guy I really liked where I was like, I get I grilled them eye contact and he was like we should hang out, and I'm like, yeah, we didn't. And sometimes it's a trap, like when both people just can't stop looking at each other's eye and it's like I don't know how to even speak a word. But you you like, you use eye contact for evil and not good, Like we said we were going to fire. But he'll like he'll like the way he likes to his eye contact is like, remember when you were on the subway, you had this thing you were doing a lot where he would just pick when a star at me, just like just and not break eye contact. Yeah, like the caricature of me is evil. Though you should say, yeah, I like too many podcasts. We were like, I'm a socio bat. It's not good for bragging about how many podcasts. Oh my god. Alright, Okay, I don't know if I have a minute of material for this. You don't realize and Jordan's firstmans, I don't think so, honey, time starts now. I don't think so, honey. Portrait mode is it looks so fucking shitty. It looks like someone used a fucking eraser and then erase everything outside of you and erase the trees. There's no depth of field. It is a trick and it and even even on the new iPhones when there are two cameras, Sorry you have it, but I'm sorry. It looks fucking cheap. And if you use portrait at all, like you are showing the world that you're old and you think you're like, oh, blurry background, that's what young people do. I have to do that, and you know what, you know what. On top of that, I'm fucking tired of death of field in general. I want a clean, sharp image, flat flat. I want everything insane to be seen. It's like we've done that. We we saw the birth of DSLRs and they have died. We don't need them anymore. We don't need you to adjust your focus. I want a flat image. I want to see the trees in the background, and I want to see your and your outfit in the foreground. And that's what young people should be doing. It. Believe in yourself. I think you know, I mean that was salient. I have to agree. I'm also I've taken a couple of portrait moons where trees are the trap. If it's against like a wall or you know, a brick wall or something, then the branches like sometimes dissolve and then they come back and turn into branches, and then they dissolve again, and it's like and then when they meet, like the outline of your face, it's just like there's a halo. I'm sorry, but front facing portrait mode, that's crazy. See treatment treatment. I don't think so, honey, Big war more more that Jok and booster started, Yeah, it's like you WTF. Yeah, what's the team like Baldwin Baldwin. Um. Yeah, it's really it's really all all out war. Before we wrap this up, I said I was going to do something, and I can't leave without doing it, which is I have to out Charles as being a listener of podcast the Ride of I Am. I Am, but I could never compete on the level that you can. But you don't know that because I have shame. I have at you don't have shame. But that's it's totally everyone. You know. Theme parks are inherently the gayest they are gay. There's that saying that, like Disneyland is more real than Vegas or whatever Disneyland tells you it's it's fake, but Vegas doesn't. Disneyland is the only real straight guys. I have just a great. Theme parks are so straight. They're people ruin it. People wanted little children and girls, especially to stay young forever and then fuck them, and so they created this world where they can fun. People have arrested development that it's the same as musical theater. They have a resident, they stay in a candy land, and other people are like, it's not so bad there. I hear what you're saying, but I feel that roller coaster parks are for the Straits six, you know, but I feel there's nothing more disgusting than be like, let's just kids be kids, you know what. I want to see? Why I say no kids in the Magic Kingdom. It should be for me, That's true. It should be gays only. Adult games should be it should be out on the mountain every day. It should be circum it should be fucking And I heard that, like literally, I my friends that have been to the Gay Days that Disney World say that there's like, come on the goddamn Haunted mansion, like people are hooking up there. That's what if you Okay, just think about if they opened up a theme park in Palm Spring, Like the people would go crazy right there, you go. Yeah, it's it's truly. I I have no ill well, I just don't. I don't know. You would never go with I have, and like I it's the same part of you that's like America's stupid. Europe is good, you know what I mean, it's me when when we go together, that's me. I am very much like you, but I do, But then I do come around because my theory can't be proven because you're you're pretty middle class, right, grew up middle class, so like I feel like growing up middle class like anything that is like a little bit gross. You're like, I'm civilized, I'm get it. That's below me. Whereas like you grew up thinking you were rich so you can do poor people things. I grew up upone was up for middle class. I grew up in the poorest part of America. So my theory, my theory doesn't doesn't hold well interesting, But I do think I think theme parks are gay, Like Disneyland is very gay. It's all about escapism. Escape that works. There is gay. Yeah, and they have a lot of gay benefits. Yeah, there's there's no reason to escape. Everyone gets free prep at Disneyland. Shut up. I really bought it. I thought it very gullible. All up, I've been very gulliable. We have. We've both been like the whole LinkedIn thing. It was like, this is what I need that people think. Everyone's like, oh, Charles, I would have said that joke, like, yeah, they got free p on the way here. We also like coming into this energy. We were both so tired, like you guys really did lift coming coming here. Charles like, I just don't know if I'm like gay enough. If you're like, I don't know that I can't talk fast enough. You guys are gay enough. Recently someone was asking to I think we were upstateing and like maybe she was talking to mo or Dave or something, and she was talking about a gay person and the question of how gay they were arrived and she goes, I mean they're not gay like, which is like what we do, but they're gay. But she literally used the barometer for day. Yeah, what's the one. What's what of your catchphrases that I like so much? I don't like, I don't know word my heart. No, it's like, yeah, like sort and there's a new one. You feel this one? You feel this When someone says something like eating, it's like, are you serious? Yeah? Yeah, you feel you the letter you Yeah, capital F E E, capital T H I S, capital W A Y. It's all past. You have to actually say that when you do. If you feel this, I feel this way you feel you get to confirm it. Wait, I feel you feel this way? You made um? This is this was a fantastic capital cover. The whole spectrum. We're like, yeah, yeah, wait, what were you listening to these four handers? Baby? I love the four hands well, I love anytime there's four days in a room. Yeah, five five Emma our new permanent producer producer. That's the highest producer title. We should, we should, we should definitely break to the listeners. HPJ is moving to I won't be in the room for us to harass anymore. So now we have HPE producer Emma, who is always who always has just very tasteful fashions, always always wears sharp, smart, smart clothes, sharp right like her outfit. I think that's true and queer, which is important to me. Essent matters and producership and producership absolutely permanent producership. Well, you have a hard out, like a half hour ago. Okay, we gotta go, We gotta go listen quick heave of the things you say. This has been a Forever Dog production executive produced by Brett Boham, Joe Cilio, and Alex Ramsey. 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