New Zealand’s economic response to the Covid pandemic is under scrutiny. 

The second phase of the Covid Inquiry found New Zealand’s overall pandemic response effective, but some restrictions went too far, and the Government moved too slowly in some areas. 

It highlights our Covid increase on health spending was one of the OECD's largest. 

ANZ Chief Economist Sharon Zollner told Kerre Woodham that debt is likely going to be permanently higher, and we have a lot of medium-term fiscal challenges as a result.  

She says in broad terms, we’ve used up two crises worth of buffer for a single crisis.  

LISTEN ABOVE 

New Zealand’s economic response to the Covid pandemic is under scrutiny.&nbsp;
The second phase of the Covid Inquiry found New Zealand’s overall pandemic response effective, but some restrictions went too far, and the Government moved too slowly in some areas.&nbsp;
It highlights our Covid increase on health spending was one of the OECD's largest.&nbsp;
ANZ Chief Economist Sharon Zollner told Kerre Woodham that debt is likely going to be permanently higher, and we have a lot of medium-term fiscal challenges as a result. &nbsp;
She says in broad terms, we’ve used up two crises worth of buffer for a single crisis. &nbsp;
LISTEN ABOVE&nbsp;

Join Kerre Woodham one of New Zealand’s best loved personalities as she dishes up a bold, sharp and energetic show Monday to Friday 9am-12md on Newstalk ZB. News, opinion, analysis, lifestyle and entertainment – we’ve got your morning listening covered.

Kerre Woodham Mornings Podcast

Sharon Zollner: ANZ Chief Economist on New Zealand's economic response to the Covid pandemic

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/4872a942-bf06-4d94-a8d2-b40a000b481d/transcript

It will be the single biggest piece of infrastructure that New Zealand will build. Remember when Shane Jones' Northport was going to be the single biggest piece of infrastructure? Well, now that's gone the way of the dodo. So the single biggest piece of infrastructure that New Zealand will build in our lifetimes, will come when the Government makes the decision on what a new Auckland Harbour crossing will look like. The time for discussion and debate is over, there simply isn't that luxury. We've been faffing around another crossing for decades.  

New Zealand Transport Agency released two June 2025 reports relating to the current bridge's —the only bridge's— state of wear, and the documents show that many areas of the bridge are vulnerable and increasingly fraying under use. The annual maintenance and repair costs now surpass $25 million. And I suppose when you're 67 years old, you're not as strong as you used to be and you need a bit of extra work. You might have seen the images of the bridge wobbling and wavering. As someone who uses the bridge just about every single day and makes at least two crossings, I feel like I'm playing Russian roulette on wheels every time I drive over it. I think, well, here we go. She's been a good life. No one can say I was taken too soon. Hoots away and off we go. And then when you get to the other side, you think, well, we live another day.  

There are approximately 170–180,000 vehicles crossing that bridge daily, with some days having more than 200,000 crossings. It is considered the busiest section of State Highway in New Zealand, serving as a critical transport connection for more than 64 million vehicles annually. It's not just about Aucklanders; it affects far more New Zealanders than that. But from the day the Harbour Bridge opened in 1959 there have been calls for another alternate crossing. In 1987 and 1988, studies for tunnels and additional bridge structures were conducted. In 2008, Option 2C was developed – a major plan involving two new tunnels. In 2021, I remember that a $785 million walking and cycle bridge was announced, oh, and then cancelled within four months. But the consultants earned themselves a good whack. 2023, the Government revealed five new distinct options including tunnels, light rail, and bridges. And ‘24 to ‘26 continued debate over the bridge versus the tunnel options. And you had Mayor Wayne Brown's Meola Reef Bridge proposal, which seemed absolutely barking to me – none of the benefits of that were explained properly.  

So now it's been narrowed down to two options, and Transport Minister Chris Bishop is confident he can make it happen. And as he told Heather du Plessis Allan, he is engaging with all the other parties for their support. 

“I do not want to be the Transport Minister who announces, you know, a big pie in the sky plan and says we're going to do this and we're going to do that and it all turns to custard and it doesn't actually end up happening. I'm going about this in a very deliberate way. We're taking a very evidence-led approach. We've been engaging with the market. We've had a barge in the harbour doing geotech work. We've had extensive studies into it. So I'm just going about this in the right way and it's going to the NZTA board for a decision in terms of a preferred option next month, and then it'll come to Cabinet and we'll be engaging with other parties around it.” 

Right, so next month, what do you think? What's it going to be? A tunnel or another bridge? It would be great to see other options, like the cycling, like the walking. As a tourist attraction, it'd be fantastic to have the cycling and the walking options. But ultimately, we need to commit. This country, successive governments, and successive generations of voters, has put off doing the hard stuff for far too long. Next month will be about a decade too late, but at least there'll be an option on the table, and we have to act on it, and we have to ensure that there's cross party support. And hopefully, the other parties don't play silly buggers and play hard to get and want all sorts of baubles to get the support, because it is far too important for that. It's time to put on our big girls' and big boys' undies and commit to this sort of infrastructure, the sort of infrastructure we need to future proof New Zealand. 

It will be the single biggest piece of infrastructure that New Zealand will build. Remember when Shane Jones' Northport was going to be the single biggest piece of infrastructure? Well, now that's gone the way of the dodo. So the single biggest piece of infrastructure that New Zealand will build in our lifetimes, will come when the Government makes the decision on what a new Auckland Harbour crossing will look like. The time for discussion and debate is over, there simply isn't that luxury. We've been faffing around another crossing for decades. &nbsp;
New Zealand Transport Agency released two June 2025 reports relating to the current bridge's —the only bridge's— state of wear, and the documents show that many areas of the bridge are vulnerable and increasingly fraying under use. The annual maintenance and repair costs now surpass $25 million. And I suppose when you're 67 years old, you're not as strong as you used to be and you need a bit of extra work. You might have seen the images of the bridge wobbling and wavering. As someone who uses the bridge just about every single day and makes at least two crossings, I feel like I'm playing Russian roulette on wheels every time I drive over it. I think, well, here we go. She's been a good life. No one can say I was taken too soon. Hoots away and off we go. And then when you get to the other side, you think, well, we live another day. &nbsp;
There are approximately 170–180,000 vehicles crossing that bridge daily, with some days having more than 200,000 crossings. It is considered the busiest section of State Highway in New Zealand, serving as a critical transport connection for more than 64 million vehicles annually. It's not just about Aucklanders; it affects far more New Zealanders than that. But from the day the Harbour Bridge opened in 1959 there have been calls for another alternate crossing. In 1987 and 1988, studies for tunnels and additional bridge structures were conducted. In 2008, Option 2C was developed – a major plan involving two new tunnels. In 2021, I remember that a $785 million walking and cycle bridge was announced, oh, and then cancelled within four months. But the consultants earned themselves a good whack. 2023, the Government revealed five new distinct options including tunnels, light rail, and bridges. And ‘24 to ‘26 continued debate over the bridge versus the tunnel options. And you had Mayor Wayne Brown's Meola Reef Bridge proposal, which seemed absolutely barking to me – none of the benefits of that were explained properly. &nbsp;
So now it's been narrowed down to two options, and Transport Minister Chris Bishop is confident he can make it happen. And as he told Heather du Plessis Allan, he is engaging with all the other parties for their support.&nbsp;
“I do not want to be the Transport Minister who announces, you know, a big pie in the sky plan and says we're going to do this and we're going to do that and it all turns to custard and it doesn't actually end up happening. I'm going about this in a very deliberate way. We're taking a very evidence-led approach. We've been engaging with the market. We've had a barge in the harbour doing geotech work. We've had extensive studies into it. So I'm just going about this in the right way and it's going to the NZTA board for a decision in terms of a preferred option next month, and then it'll come to Cabinet and we'll be engaging with other parties around it.”&nbsp;
Right, so next month, what do you think? What's it going to be? A tunnel or another bridge? It would be great to see other options, like the cycling, like the walking. As a tourist attraction, it'd be fantastic to have the cycling and the walking options. But ultimately, we need to commit. This country, successive governments, and successive generations of voters, has put off doing the hard stuff for far too long. Next month will be about a decade too late, but at least there'll be an option on the table, and we have to act on it, and we have to ensure that there's cross party support. And hopefully, the other parties don't play silly buggers and play hard to get and want all sorts of baubles to get the support, because it is far too important for that. It's time to put on our big girls' and big boys' undies and commit to this sort of infrastructure, the sort of infrastructure we need to future proof New Zealand.&nbsp;

Kerre Woodham: It's time to commit to the infrastructure we need to future proof New Zealand

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/d82749d0-9fdb-4eb3-b33a-b44900115245/transcript

Judith Collins is bidding farewell to politics. 

The senior National MP has delivered her valedictory speech, saying goodbye after 24 years in Parliament, as she prepares to move on to heading the Law Commission. 

Collins held numerous ministerial portfolios in her time in politics and led National to the 2020 election. 

She told Kerre Woodham she feels as though she’s done everything in Parliament that she really wanted to. 

LISTEN ABOVE 

Judith Collins is bidding farewell to politics.&nbsp;
The senior National MP has delivered her valedictory speech, saying goodbye after 24 years in Parliament, as she prepares to move on to heading the Law Commission.&nbsp;
Collins held numerous ministerial portfolios in her time in politics and led National to the 2020 election.&nbsp;
She told Kerre Woodham she feels as though she’s done everything in Parliament that she really wanted to.&nbsp;
LISTEN ABOVE&nbsp;

Judith Collins: Retiring National MP reflects on her career in Parliament

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/48e90835-8c5f-4cfa-941a-b449000d4a92/transcript

We start this morning with something you already know: the number of New Zealanders moving to Australia is at its highest level in 12 years. And most of those moving are going to Australia – around 58% of those who are leaving say they're heading for Oz. Yet in the World Happiness Report, in terms of happiness, we rank ahead of Australia. We're 11th happiest, they come in at number 15 – the Nordic countries always take out the top spots. The report suggests New Zealand's more equal and less corrupt than Australia with greater freedom and social support, but these positives appear to be outweighed by per capita GDP.

And if you're looking for reasons why 58% of those leaving New Zealand are moving to Oz, follow the money, honey. When you feel like you're being ground down by life, that you're working every hour God sends but you're not getting anywhere, it would be very tempting to see the pot of gold at the end of a short three hour flight across the ditch as the answer to everything. And sometimes it is. But there are downsides. Jack Tame looked at the reasons why the people he interviewed had left for Australia, what the advantages were, what the disadvantages were, and found that despite the money and the sun, the grass isn't always greener. James Houston left Palmerston North and the New Zealand Police, one of those we were talking about yesterday, to join the Queensland Police Service. 

“I did about six years back home in New Zealand in Palmerston North before resigning and coming over here. You've got the lifestyle, you've got the sun, you've got better pay. I think I increased my salary coming over here by about 60% and that's without any overtime. I've got two other officers here at Ferny Grove from my actual station back in Palmerston North, so it's not only me coming over to do it, it's a lot of other people. Some of the challenges I'd say is, you know, you don't have your family support around, especially in a role like this. In all honesty, mate, if we were to get the same perks back home as what we have over here, like you get a better salary, you know, you're looked after a bit better, I'd give up the sunshine, I'd give up the lifestyle. There'd be no doubt in my mind, mate, I'd go home.” 

That was James Houston speaking on Jack Tame's 1News special, “You, Me and Aussie”. And that's the thing though, isn't it? Like 60% more in your salary, we're never ever going to be able to offer that sort of money. Australia's economy is so much bigger than ours, there are so many more people, and their money is based on things that we won't countenance in this country, like mining. So we're not going to be able to pay the sort of money and that's the sacrifice you make. You know, as James said, he would he would give it up in a heartbeat if he got the same money back home because of the family support he gets. But he's not going to get that money, so that's the trade off.  

My kids sacrificed money for lifestyle, friends, and family support. They were living in London, they always said they would come home when they started a family. And selfishly, I'm very, very glad they did, although they had to weigh it up. They were earning really good money in the UK, but once they had kids, they wanted to come home. Money's important, very, very important, but so too are family ties and friendship groups. I've never lived and worked in Australia or indeed any other country, but I have many friends and family members who have, and it's family and friends that brought them back. As Jack's show referenced, it can be really lonely moving to a new country, especially if you don't have children. If you've got the children, then you can tend to meet people through the school groups, but if you don't have children, all you've got is your healthy salary. You have to work for it too. You know, those who are working in the mines, it is not a doddle. You have to be strong and you have to have a strong relationship to be able to withstand that. If you have no one but each other to share the good times with, it can be really, really tough. 

You've got the story of the police officers moving to Australia and the interview with James on Jack Tame's show last night. You've got New Zealanders moving to Oz at the highest level it's been in more than a decade. For those who have family and friends over there, how are they finding it? If you are over there and listening in Oz, and I know there's a number who are, how are you finding it? And if you are young and you are grinding away, why aren't you there yet? Why haven't you made the leap across the ditch? If you can earn 60% more than you're earning in this country? There's no way you can compete on money. No way New Zealand can.  

So what is keeping you here? And for those who've been and gone and worked in Oz and come home, what brought you back? Those who have made the move to Oz, love to hear from you or your friends and family. Those who haven't gone, what is keeping you here? For me, when all my friends were heading overseas to live and work, do the big OE, I had a job on Fair Go. I was 20/21 had a great job in television, then at 23 I was pregnant, so I wasn't going anywhere. And then once you have a child, it's somewhat more difficult to move. So if you are still in New Zealand, you know, sort of transferring money between accounts as you wait for payday, what's keeping you here? 

We start this morning with something you already know: the number of New Zealanders moving to Australia is at its highest level in 12 years. And most of those moving are going to Australia – around 58% of those who are leaving say they're heading for Oz. Yet in the World Happiness Report, in terms of happiness, we rank ahead of Australia. We're 11th happiest, they come in at number 15 – the Nordic countries always take out the top spots. The report suggests New Zealand's more equal and less corrupt than Australia with greater freedom and social support, but these positives appear to be outweighed by per capita GDP.
And if you're looking for reasons why 58% of those leaving New Zealand are moving to Oz, follow the money, honey. When you feel like you're being ground down by life, that you're working every hour God sends but you're not getting anywhere, it would be very tempting to see the pot of gold at the end of a short three hour flight across the ditch as the answer to everything. And sometimes it is. But there are downsides. Jack Tame looked at the reasons why the people he interviewed had left for Australia, what the advantages were, what the disadvantages were, and found that despite the money and the sun, the grass isn't always greener. James Houston left Palmerston North and the New Zealand Police, one of those we were talking about yesterday, to join the Queensland Police Service.&nbsp;
“I did about six years back home in New Zealand in Palmerston North before resigning and coming over here. You've got the lifestyle, you've got the sun, you've got better pay. I think I increased my salary coming over here by about 60% and that's without any overtime. I've got two other officers here at Ferny Grove from my actual station back in Palmerston North, so it's not only me coming over to do it, it's a lot of other people. Some of the challenges I'd say is, you know, you don't have your family support around, especially in a role like this. In all honesty, mate, if we were to get the same perks back home as what we have over here, like you get a better salary, you know, you're looked after a bit better, I'd give up the sunshine, I'd give up the lifestyle. There'd be no doubt in my mind, mate, I'd go home.”&nbsp;
That was James Houston speaking on Jack Tame's 1News special, “You, Me and Aussie”. And that's the thing though, isn't it? Like 60% more in your salary, we're never ever going to be able to offer that sort of money. Australia's economy is so much bigger than ours, there are so many more people, and their money is based on things that we won't countenance in this country, like mining. So we're not going to be able to pay the sort of money and that's the sacrifice you make. You know, as James said, he would he would give it up in a heartbeat if he got the same money back home because of the family support he gets. But he's not going to get that money, so that's the trade off. &nbsp;
My kids sacrificed money for lifestyle, friends, and family support. They were living in London, they always said they would come home when they started a family. And selfishly, I'm very, very glad they did, although they had to weigh it up. They were earning really good money in the UK, but once they had kids, they wanted to come home. Money's important, very, very important, but so too are family ties and friendship groups. I've never lived and worked in Australia or indeed any other country, but I have many friends and family members who have, and it's family and friends that brought them back. As Jack's show referenced, it can be really lonely moving to a new country, especially if you don't have children. If you've got the children, then you can tend to meet people through the school groups, but if you don't have children, all you've got is your healthy salary. You have to work for it too. You know, those who are working in the mines, it is not a doddle. You have to be strong and you have to have a strong relationship to be able to withstand that. If you have no one but each other to share the good times with, it can be really, really tough.&nbsp;
You've got the story of the police officers moving to Australia and the interview with James on Jack Tame's show last night. You've got New Zealanders moving to Oz at the highest level it's been in more than a decade. For those who have family and friends over there, how are they finding it? If you are over there and listening in Oz, and I know there's a number who are, how are you finding it? And if you are young and you are grinding away, why aren't you there yet? Why haven't you made the leap across the ditch? If you can earn 60% more than you're earning in this country? There's no way you can compete on money. No way New Zealand can. &nbsp;
So what is keeping you here? And for those who've been and gone and worked in Oz and come home, what brought you back? Those who have made the move to Oz, love to hear from you or your friends and family. Those who haven't gone, what is keeping you here? For me, when all my friends were heading overseas to live and work, do the big OE, I had a job on Fair Go. I was 20/21 had a great job in television, then at 23 I was pregnant, so I wasn't going anywhere. And then once you have a child, it's somewhat more difficult to move. So if you are still in New Zealand, you know, sort of transferring money between accounts as you wait for payday, what's keeping you here?&nbsp;

Kerre Woodham: What is keeping you from moving to Australia?

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/30e610d8-7f8c-4674-9126-b4480001ed40/transcript

Sharon Zollner: ANZ Chief Economist on New Zealand's economic response to the Covid pandemic

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