The hooha over the efficacy of the boot camps hasn't gone away anytime soon, although over the weekend we did hear supporters of the scheme, along with the critics. I frightened the horses on Friday morning when I suggested that this iteration of the boot camps - and there have been many, as you know, had got off to a very bad start with one young man dying in a car accident and then two young people fleeing from their community placements. 

Good news, the two youths have since been found. Bad news, the two were reportedly among four people taken into custody in Hamilton on Saturday night after a stolen Toyota Corolla was spotted on Cobham Drive in Hamilton. 

The driver allegedly fled after being signaled to stop until the car hit road spikes. Then wielding a machete, tried to carjack another vehicle which drove away. They were then arrested along with two others, the fourth being found about 5 minutes later by a dog unit. 

In a statement, Karen Chhour said the circumstances were disappointing, but she was relieved the pair had been found. She said the military style academy pilot programme is just that, a pilot programme. It consists of a three month in residence stay, then another nine months back out in the community with mentor support. Oranga Tamariki does not have the ability to restrict the movement of these young people or the choices they make once they're back in the community. The young people have been in either family or community placements where they're trusted to comply with their legal orders. End of statement. 

And as we all agreed on Friday, nobody is expecting there to be a 100% success rate. These kids are extremely troubled, that's why they're there. The key will be the successful execution of the support they've been promised out in the community.

And over the weekend, as I say, we did hear from supporters of the scheme, along with the critics. Of those supporters was Phil O'Reilly, for Business NZ Chief Executive, but spoke to Heather du Plessis-Allan this morning as former welfare expert advisory group member. He says we should stick with the boot camps -they work. 

I was on one not as a participant, but as a sponsor of one in the John Key government, that version of it. I was not necessarily an advocate turning up to see this thing work, but boy, at the end of it, these kids had their lives changed for the better and the only issue was afterwards they just went back to their old ways and then this new one I'm told attempts to solve that issue. 

But now these are troubled kids, and they've had tough upbringings, so who knew sometimes they might abscond and do bad things. I know that's a terrible thing that’s happened, but you can't blame the whole system just on that issue. And I think we need to see it through now because I can tell you from personal experience of seeing one of these things in action, these kids walk out better, sober, you know together more team building and so on and they just need support to reintegrate back into a better life ahead.

The Chief Children’s Commissioner, Dr. Claire Achmad, also came out in support of them and I must admit I was surprised. Which is my own stereotyping, my own prejudice about what the Chief Children's Commissioner might think or not think. I would have thought she’d be dead against them - not at all. 

She said, and I quote - “I don't think we could say that the programme is a failure. The key here is that we must not give up on these mokopuna. I've been to the military style academy pilot. I spent a few hours there while the rangatahi were there.  I saw how hard the staff there were working to put in place that multi-discipline support around these young people.  She says she saw how active and willing the boot camp participants from both sides were and hopes to see it continue with some finding employment and furthering their education. 

If somebody had said to you, do you believe the Chief Children's Commissioner is for or against the boot camps? I bet there are a few of you, like me, who would have said, oh, she'd be dead against them. Not all. Been there, seen it, likes what she’s seen.

There's an amendment bill before Parliament that creates a framework. For the government's new attempt at military style academies and looking at extending them. But people who have worked on the boot camps, who I spoke to, who can't go on the record, say it's not the length of time that you spend on the boot camps. 

While you're on the boot camps you're safe, insulated from all these stresses, from all the temptations, from all the lure of your old. You're protected. People care about you. They give a damn about you. You're important while you're there. It's all about you and what you need. And the kids do respond to that. They want to be good; they want to be sober. They want to get off the drugs, they want to get away from the gangs. And then they go home. 

Now the difference between previous boot camps and this one is that there has been the promise of wrap around care, community support, that the young people will get what they need to make the right choices. 

And let's face it, sending them to prison is not going to help. There are only two young adult units in prison and none for young women, so I guess we’ve got to try everything because there's nowhere else for these young people to go. There has been the promise of support for these young people to help them make the right decisions. 

Most of us made really stupid decisions when we were the age of these young ones. We just weren't involved in crime. So, making dumb decisions, multiplied by crime, equals trouble. 

I said on Friday that it got off to the worst possible start. That didn't mean I don't believe in them. I just said it wasn't a great look. The bad starts happened, but at least we've seen prominent supporters come out and say why they believe in it and what needs to happen for it to be a success. And that success does not mean a 100% strike rate and turning all of these young lives around. Hell, you'd take 20% and it would still be worth it.

<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">The hooha over the efficacy of the boot camps hasn't gone away anytime soon, although over the weekend we did hear supporters of the scheme, along with the critics. I frightened the horses on Friday morning when I suggested that this iteration of the boot camps - and there have been many, as you know, had got off to a very bad start with one young man dying in a car accident and then two young people fleeing from their community placements. 
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">Good news, the two youths have since been found. Bad news, the two were reportedly among four people taken into custody in Hamilton on Saturday night after a stolen Toyota Corolla was spotted on Cobham Drive in Hamilton. 
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">The driver allegedly fled after being signaled to stop until the car hit road spikes. Then wielding a machete, tried to carjack another vehicle which drove away. They were then arrested along with two others, the fourth being found about 5 minutes later by a dog unit. 
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">In a statement, Karen Chhour said the circumstances were disappointing, but she was relieved the pair had been found. She said the military style academy pilot programme is just that, a pilot programme. It consists of a three month in residence stay, then another nine months back out in the community with mentor support. Oranga Tamariki does not have the ability to restrict the movement of these young people or the choices they make once they're back in the community. The young people have been in either family or community placements where they're trusted to comply with their legal orders. End of statement. 
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">And as we all agreed on Friday, nobody is expecting there to be a 100% success rate. These kids are extremely troubled, that's why they're there. The key will be the successful execution of the support they've been promised out in the community.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">And over the weekend, as I say, we did hear from supporters of the scheme, along with the critics. Of those supporters was Phil O'Reilly, for Business NZ Chief Executive, but spoke to Heather du Plessis-Allan this morning as former welfare expert advisory group member. He says we should stick with the boot camps -they work.&nbsp;
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">I was on one not as a participant, but as a sponsor of one in the John Key government, that version of it. I was not necessarily an advocate turning up to see this thing work, but boy, at the end of it, these kids had their lives changed for the better and the only issue was afterwards they just went back to their old ways and then this new one I'm told attempts to solve that issue. 
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">But now these are troubled kids, and they've had tough upbringings, so who knew sometimes they might abscond and do bad things. I know that's a terrible thing that’s happened, but you can't blame the whole system just on that issue. And I think we need to see it through now because I can tell you from personal experience of seeing one of these things in action, these kids walk out better, sober, you know together more team building and so on and they just need support to reintegrate back into a better life ahead.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">The Chief Children’s Commissioner, Dr. Claire Achmad, also came out in support of them and I must admit I was surprised. Which is my own stereotyping, my own prejudice about what the Chief Children's Commissioner might think or not think. I would have thought she’d be dead against them - not at all. 
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">She said, and I quote - “I don't think we could say that the programme is a failure. The key here is that we must not give up on these mokopuna. I've been to the military style academy pilot. I spent a few hours there while the rangatahi were there. &nbsp;I saw how hard the staff there were working to put in place that multi-discipline support around these young people. &nbsp;She says she saw how active and willing the boot camp participants from both sides were and hopes to see it continue with some finding employment and furthering their education. 
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">If somebody had said to you, do you believe the Chief Children's Commissioner is for or against the boot camps? I bet there are a few of you, like me, who would have said, oh, she'd be dead against them. Not all. Been there, seen it, likes what she’s seen.
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">There's an amendment bill before Parliament that creates a framework. For the government's new attempt at military style academies and looking at extending them. But people who have worked on the boot camps, who I spoke to, who can't go on the record, say it's not the length of time that you spend on the boot camps. 
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">While you're on the boot camps you're safe, insulated from all these stresses, from all the temptations, from all the lure of your old. You're protected. People care about you. They give a damn about you. You're important while you're there. It's all about you and what you need. And the kids do respond to that. They want to be good; they want to be sober. They want to get off the drugs, they want to get away from the gangs. And then they go home. 
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">Now the difference between previous boot camps and this one is that there has been the promise of wrap around care, community support, that the young people will get what they need to make the right choices. 
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">And let's face it, sending them to prison is not going to help. There are only two young adult units in prison and none for young women, so I guess we’ve got to try everything because there's nowhere else for these young people to go. There has been the promise of support for these young people to help them make the right decisions.&nbsp;
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">Most of us made really stupid decisions when we were the age of these young ones. We just weren't involved in crime. So, making dumb decisions, multiplied by crime, equals trouble. 
<p style="-webkit-user-drag: none; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: transparent; margin: 0px 0px 10.6667px; padding: 0px; user-select: text; overflow-wrap: break-word; white-space: pre-wrap; vertical-align: baseline; font-kerning: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); color: windowtext; text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;">I said on Friday that it got off to the worst possible start. That didn't mean I don't believe in them. I just said it wasn't a great look. The bad starts happened, but at least we've seen prominent supporters come out and say why they believe in it and what needs to happen for it to be a success. And that success does not mean a 100% strike rate and turning all of these young lives around. Hell, you'd take 20% and it would still be worth it.

Join Kerre Woodham one of New Zealand’s best loved personalities as she dishes up a bold, sharp and energetic show Monday to Friday 9am-12md on Newstalk ZB. News, opinion, analysis, lifestyle and entertainment – we’ve got your morning listening covered.

Kerre Woodham Mornings Podcast

Kerre Woodham: On where the bootcamps stand now

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/c46c6df1-7bb3-4dd1-918a-b2410005ca3b/transcript

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