On how he went from his iconic F boy anthem, “It Wasn’t Me” to happily married with kids.
What do Bethenny and Shaggy have in common? As it turns out, a lot. The Grammy-award winner, Mr. Boombastic is also a pro at long-distance relationships and had an unconventional path to success...this is the collab you didn’t know you needed.
Plus, B’s rant of the week takes aim at the resurgence of the fanny pack. Sexy? Practical? Has it ever been okay or does it need to just go away?
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Yeah, okay, our cross body bags going out. I was just at like a suburban housewife spa where everybody was in like groups of women trips, you know that type, drinking their weight in alcohol. Like a bartender had to cut off these women we were at a spa because they would just waste it. Which was weird because we're at a spa. Everybody had a fucking cross body am I like? Am I wearing mom jeans? If I'm wearing a cross body is that not okay? And then also the fanny pack thing, I don't I bring those on a vacation just because I think they're functional if you go on a hike or if you just want to go run and get coffee. I wear them as a fannie pack. I wear them on my actual fanny. This new thing is like a cross body fannie like wearing the same fanny across your chest, like like you have bullets on your that fucking like sash that military people where, you know what I mean, Like that thing across your chest like massive artillery. Why are people wearing fannie packs across their chests? They're not chest packs my out. I'm never doing it. I don't understand it. I find it offensive. I just wanted to know how Mom, Jean, I am right now. My guest today is Grammy winning reggae stars Shaggy and known for his international hits like It Wasn't Me and Angel. Born in Kingston, Jamaica, Shaggy was discovered while jamming on the street with friends. He's soon enrolled in the U. S. Marines, where he developed his signature voice and eventually became the highly acclaimed artist we know today. He's gathered seven Grammy nominations and two wins. He started the Shaggy Make a Difference Foundation and held Shaggy and Friends concert to raise money for busta Monte Hospital for children. On and off stage, Shaggy is a beloved artist. I know you're all excited for this one as am. I enjoy So where are you? Where do you live? And at my home here in Miami and we're in my recording studio, so uh, it's the best place I could could be for sound. It's amazing trying to kind of create these spaces in our homes that we never knew existed. It's like using garages and basements and kids play rooms in just different ways of making it work for ourselves. It's been a very interesting aspect, like home renovation for this purpose. Yes, having some sort of you know, transformation to make us feel like we're at work. Exactly where is work usually? Though? You have you lived in Miami for a long time. No, I just moved here a year ago. And I used to live in New York and I got out of New York. And it's it's closely here because my I have two elder sons that are here and they live in Miami also, and I live in Jamaica. You know, wife, kids and dogs are in Jamaica, and it's it's like an hour flight. It's an hour and a flight from from Miami to Jamaica. So it just it just made sense. Everything just made sense, and it's fallen into place. So your family is in Jamaica, So you, like myself, are in a long distance relationship. And how does that work? How do how do you I'm sure in the beginning it seems scary and there's a bunch of justifications and rationalizations for it. I've been with my wife like for about twenty five years. I've been married for about fighting five or six years. Uh, so you know, it has worked. You know, when I tour a lot, so she's used to me going away and being gone. You know, she comes and joins me on tour. Now in some some cases the kids join us on tour on on certain long runs. Um, So you know, it just kind of works with a very tight knit family. Might. I have two sons from a previous relationship, and you know they're very tight, uh, with my my previous wife and with our daughters, and so we really want to be vacation a lot. We do a lot of vacations. Were always in Jamaica a lot. Um. My son's mom is also very tight with all of us. So it seemed to have worked out well. I asked that because it's right after Valentine's Day and people think about relationships. I usually ask this question to someone like yourself at the end of the conversation about quote unquote successful relationships, which I do define by longevity. That and I found through this show there's so many non traditional ways to make it work. And we have this ideal about what it's supposed to be like. And then you're in your forties, in your fifties, you're divorced, you're blending um, and you can meet someone that you love or evolved into a place where you don't live in the same place as them, Meaning I met someone that lives in another state and we had to make it work. But it's made me reframe relationships and what works for you versus our our expectations, get into relationships with the other person's expectations, and then you are actually in the relationship and it becomes the reality and making that reality work. So that's why you're saying that it jumps off the page to me that you've evolved into it. But I guess it just keeps reshifting and resettling. Well, I think relationships come with a lot of compromising and and the minute you find that out, it's the easier your journey is going to be. It's like having two two rocks and they're all shaped differently and they go at each other enough till they just become round and smooth. Yes, that's amazing, but the journey is going to be a very uh, it can be a rocky journey. Relationships are hard, But I think if two people are dedicated to each other and really uh, you know, appreciate each other and really want those each other to be in each other's lives. You'll sacrifice all of it. You'll go through the ups and down. You're gonna make mistakes. You're gonna be a lot of mistakes. You can't be that person that's going to be like, okay, uh, this is me. And if you do that, that's that. You know what I mean? Things changes, and I you know, I've gone through journeys where I want At a certain age, I used to think like that, and then at a certain age I was like, well, maybe I wouldn't do that. And then you know, because the person you are now is not the same person you are five years ago, and so on and so forth. We we've all we change and exact life changes us. Life changes us. True, But I love that part about aging, the reframing of relationships and how to make things working, compromise, and the valuing time. Uh, where we used to just waste it and now we really seem to appreciate it. So you grew up in Jamaica. You're born and bred in Jamaica. What part I'm born and raised in Kingston. Um I came to the United States. Um, I would say probably around eighteen, and I went to Erasmus Hall High school in Brooklyn. I was a Flatbush guy uh in Brooklyn. I UM and then I went into the military and joined the Marines at about UM and did four years in the Marine, and I think it was I think I joined and UM did the First Gulf War and it came out and I was doing music throughout all of that. And then maybe a year after I was discharged from the US Marines, one of the songs that I was recording while I was going back and forth from New York to North Carolina, where I was stationed, happened to be a song called Old Carolina that caught the year of that was licensed to a small company called Green Sleeve Records out of England, and that company had made a distribution through BMG, and I had I was in the middle of a bidding war, and I I took a very large deal at the time for reggae music UM from a company called Virgin and a gentleman by the name of ken Berry. And you know, I was off to the races after that. Well, that was defined. But you're defining a side hustle. I mean, you're describing a side hustle. You're in the military and you have a side passion. What percentage of your life and your mind and your body were you focusing on that side hustle? And how do you I was not. I was never a model marine. It's funny enough they actually have me up and and I think in the museum at the Marine base uh in Paras Island. But I'm I was never a model marine. I drove from North Carolina to New York every weekend that would be out. You would be out of bounds at that time. It's it's your a wall. So I was a wall every weekend just to go do a music in New York. I didn't get paid for it, so it wasn't a hustle, you know. It was just something that I was passionate about and I loved it. And at a me being stationed in North Carolina where there was um nothing culturally um for me, a lot not many West Indians there at all. You know, you didn't hear dance all our reggae music. Um. It's a different kind of culture that was there living on that, you know, on that base culturally starving. So I had to go home every weekend and I took a thing called Swoop Circle. And whereas you know, a bunch of Marines jump in these vans and drive down and sometimes I would rent a car and and I went. It's nine hours to nine hours right every weekend, just to just to be on a weekend and doing music and come right back. Well. Ay, well is a good name for an album. Yeah, it's a good name for an album. So what did you go into the Marines? For security? For education? For just wanting the next step? What was the reason for that. I just got into the Marines because I was in Clint doing everything that I shouldn't be doing. And uh, I see all my friends getting locked up or just it just wasn't turning out good for anybody around me. So I was like, Okay, I needed I need to be out. That was you intervening? You yourself or your family? Oh? Me myself. My mother didn't know that I left in the Marine. She actually, when she found out, try to go there to stop it, but I already signed in, you know. And uh, and I kind of wanted to get out of her house too, because I wasn't very happy there, and we were I was at that age where we were bumping heads a lot. So it was just the right thing to do at the time, but I didn't know. You know. The funny enough, the Marines is where I did all my growing up. I became a neat freak. I became driven, I became I had attention to detail. By being in the military. It taught me to balance my checkbook. It taught me. It prepared me for music where I would get up early in the morning and do interviews, go straight to the night, do a do a road show, and then get up and jump on a plane and be on another continent and it over again. So interesting, what a trajectory. No one would really have never heard that. Even even vocally. We used to run and sing cadences and we was be like, I don't know, but I've been told my CEO wears panty holes. And I would sing like the drilling instructures because they would talk like, boy, you're a better dropper and give it twenty blah blah blah blah blah. And I would actually sing like that in that voice. And then the minute I did Carolina in the same voice, I'm this double bostick, it became a massive record. Now I was like, wow, that was voice training. I didn't know that was vocal drain because I was singing from my gut up. That's amazing. That's also very interesting. Wow. Well, so as a child, was business discussed described work ethic? Uh? Did you fall into it? And because being a musician is, you have to be a business person too, And many people don't know the difference. So some creatives end up blowing away all their money and not knowing how to handle the business side. So what is that whole relationship like between them? Yeah, well, you know there's two things. There's a music business, in the business of music. You got to figure it out. Um no I I you know, I no one in my family did music. Um. I don't even know how I ended up being musical because none of my family is musical, no one at all. Um. So that's that's the first weird thing in the house. I mean, like to be successful, Yeah, the work ethic. I was always a dreamer. I dream of of being. I never hung out with the kids in my neighborhood. I always hung out with the kids that are better than me, you know. And I always am in the room with people who I admire, who are better than me at some time, you know what I mean. So if there's a guy in class that if we're doing sports and he's the best sports guy, that's the guy that's my friend. I never hang out with people that are the same as me. I always hang on people. To this day, I like you up pretty much. But I was fascinated by those people because I got I got to learn so much about them, and I think that that has always been something UM that has helped me UM throughout the years. But I never knew anything about the business side. I had a harsh UM lesson and in the business of music. UM. I had sold a lot of records and I had trusted a lot of trusted a particular person, uh, my manager at that time. And you know, one day got up into checks and balances and wasn't UM realized that, you know, he just didn't love me as much as he claimed he did. Wow, And what do you do about that? What do you do? How do you well, you cut ties and pick up and start over. Does nothing you can do to go back and get it. It's gone. It's in in in the in the situation that I'm in. You know that we're in. You know this is you know, this is treat This is treat situation you're not gonna you know, you leave it at that and then let it be and leave it to leave it to the universe. And so in that situation when I left, I was like, Okay, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it again. And I just kept doing it and kept writing and kept doing and I kept making records and get more hits and get more things. And but now I was in charge of me, right, so it was it could be a gift. I mean a gift many times. I mean, I've been screwed too. We've all been. I mean, if you've been really successful, you've probably been screwed. And it's not great because it makes you alert and slightly bitter. It makes you a little paranoid. You know, you're hypersensitive but hyper parentive. But to learn the mistakes earlier in the career is really saves you a lot in emotion and in money literally because and heartache, because the mistakes we make in the beginning seems so big, but as you grow more successful it could be so much bigger. You've got to be careful. You just mentioned bitter. Um, that's a part that you have to really control. I try not to be bitter. I have a lot to be bitter about, but I try not to be bitter because that will actually weigh you down, and that will stop your your projection, um, and whatever your goals are, if you if you buy into the bitterness and and and and keep yourself busy, because the more time you have on the hand your hand is the more and the more alone time you have is the more you think about the bad things people do to you and the things and where, especially if you're somewhere where you're not yet, if you're not at your goal yet, you start to think about all of these things. Um. The pandemic was bad for me. I got into a really bad place of you know, just being bitter and uh, and so I just kept myself busy. It's well they say, the idle mind is the devil's playground. Absolutely, and also and also the bitter you know, you take a minute to be pissed, and but you use that to either help other people to be smarter, to channel it. That's my big thing right now. Every young artist that I have, that I that I meet, I sit down and I have these lectures, these uh, these vibe conversations, and they're so open to it too. They're like wow, because a lot of them, Jim just never knew. They look at me and see me successful, and you know, I'm you know, especially in my genre of of of dance, all and reggae, I'm you know, I'm at the top of the food chain of it, you know what I mean. And they see everything that I've built and everything that's around me and where I am, and and once I start to explain my journey to them, they're like, wow, I wouldn't ever thought. And it's it made them look at things a little bit more, a little bit more alert of the people that are around you. And I told him, I said, Hey, the guy over there that's your to me is not the guy you fear. It's the guy that's your friend. Keep your keep your friends close. Yeah, I have a tight circle. I think it's important to keep your circle real tight. I am real tight. Yeah, it's just the rest is filler and fluff. You know who your people are. So and I really really stand by that keep your circle tight. You cannot have fifty friends that are all good you just it's not possible. You have to keep your circle tight. So I want to talk about the success in this business, um, being criticized for sort of crossing over it and being in two different worlds of music, because many times in marketing, if you try to please everybody, you please nobody. So that's definitely a dance to figure out how to make that choice, um, and then how to keep yourself as relevant as you need to while also staying true to who you are, you know, not wanting to be too commercial and selling out, but wanting to be relevant. We're getting older, but you know, we both popped at a top I'm where it was crazy, you know, for different things. Like for me it was the Housewives and and other and and the skinny Girl margharita. For you, it's specific hit songs. So what's that whole relationship? Like, to success and relevance, you have to create your You've got to create your own legitimacy, um, and it you got to create you know, your own authenticity so to speak, because let's let's look at at at authenticity and and and everything is a hybrid. Everything that has been successful is at one point a hybrid, you know. And I came to realize that that if you you mean, like Steve Jobs saying, everything is a remix. You have to have to, but you have do Remy. We're not inventing it here. It's been there, you know. I mean, it's really your feel and and that culture that you put into it and you're and how you see it. I might be a Jamaican. I come from a Jamaican culture and I've was raised seeing what my parents went through culturally, but this is my generation and my culture is different from theirs. We're from the same place. It's the same culture. It's just a remix of what they have done. It's not the same. Well, it's your own influence. Nobu is not only doing Japanese food, He's doing peruvi in Japanese. The experiences he's had in his life. Okay, that's a great point, and that is what will will spin off the success and it will also create the longevity by you coming up with something that is unique to you. You know. The great Bob Marley was criticized in his early days. Uh and I used music because I'm in music, Uh, for for being somewhat of a sellout because he made what was known as wardadown reggae. But he was just ahead of his time. He figured out that there was a global market out there, and you know, they brought in British session musicians to overdub on these original Whaler's music, you know, and to create what was a hybrid sound that eventually became the blueprint of what reggae is to this day. That those hybrid sound. So that's what I say. You have to make your own. Um uh, you know, your own. It's a new recipe. Every time you're adding one or two ingredients, a different step and it becomes a new recipe. Yeah it's not. I'm sure the original truffle pasta was made one way, but now people are adding all these different things. So yeah, that that that's that's very smart and it keeps you relevant because you're always looking at things. I am allergic to boredom, so I continuously trying to do things outside the box. If it's in the box, on board, if it's in the box. It's funny you use the word board because I just heard at a spa that boredom is actually anxiety. Probably did not the boredom is anxiety. And so people have a hard time sitting with what you know, and and I just found that very interesting. When you feel bored you're actually experiencing anxiety to sort of look to to look at that, um what about you know? So like athletes, I mean musicians can be musicians forever, not like athletes, but athletes have to think about what if this is only a certain number of years? What else am I doing? What am I investing in? What's my next step to secure for my family and future? So have you and have you invested a lot in other things? What other businesses are you in? How do you diversify your career and your business? You have to first thing I think you should do is create a brand. You know. The minute that you create a brand and create a lifestyle with that brand, Uh, then all the opportunities come at you. You know. There are the things that I invested here. There are a couple of companies and stuff that you know, but those things came through me and me being who I am and my brand, and those opportunities came. And then with those opportunities you invest you know, some of them you're doing through brand equity, some of them you put a little bit of money in. Some of them, you know, if you find out what works for you, you know, But the main thing you gotta do is try to find things that you could make money in your sleep and it doesn't take away from the thing that you love the most. Because you could go into a business and it might be a lucrative business, in a smart business, but you don't really enjoy it, but it makes you a lot of money. Yes, I'm not here the buckets I call it the buckets method, where like you only have a certain number of buckets, would you rather have six they're a half full or three that are full? And the r o I for each could be emotional, spiritual, financial, but they better turn they but I have a good return. And maybe you have one that you do make a lot of money, but something better emotionally and spiritually feeds you to balance that out, otherwise you'll be imbalanced exactly. So for me, I try, you know, I try to do things that make me. I know, music really brings me a lot of joy and a lot of happiness, and I enjoyed and I'm very fulfilled. There's not a many there's not a lot of things else apart from hanging with my kids or or doing vacation with my family that really fulfilled me the same way. Um So for that whatever things that I invest in. Otherwise I invest in someone else's passion. You know. So if there's somebody that's, for instance, um, you know, they're making cushions, you know, but they're really passionated cushions and they make them really good. The stitching is perfectly, the embroideries right, and you could just see how passionate that person is. That's a success. You know. At this point you're gonna be like, Okay, maybe I invest in that person because I don't have to worry whether this is going to be really well done because that person is that's passionate about it. I could give a shit about cushions. But you're investing in the jockey, not necessarily exactly, you know what I mean. So these are these are things that I that I'll do. It all depends if I meet someone. And I could meet someone who would come in and pitch to me that they're doing guitars. You know, they're like, Okay, I'm gonna do guitars here, and I'm and we're gonna make our own line of guitars and he and he pitches me and you know, and I'm so okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna invest half a million dollars in it, you know, and you know, he shows me his business plan. I buy it. I think it's good. We shake hands and I'm like, okay, uh, you're going my way. It's like, let me jump in your car, get a ride down to the train because that's where I'm getting at him. And I go in his car and I see, you know, uh McDonald's boxes and fries everywhere and ship all fucked up in his car. And by the time I get to the train station, that deal is done. I understand it. I who you are in your life is who you are absolutely. Because you can't manage your car, how to fun you gonna manage my money. I couldn't agree the character of the person when you're investing and how it is, you know what I mean. But I still think to be in charge of your destiny. Even you might find somebody that's really good at cushion and very passionate of it. There's nothing like you knowing what you want and and I am. I am really really good at music. I suck at everything else. You don't want to see me kick a ball, you know, yeah? And I barely can. I barely could add I suck at math and I'm but what I'm smart enough to do is to hire really smart people to be around me. And and and it's no one person. There are many persons that all play their role and are in their lane and right and uh and it it makes good for accountability down the line also. And so the brand is Shaggy. What if you had to describe in a sentence what the brand means? And it is? What is the brand? When you think of Shaggy, it's it's it's cultural. Like you're not going to think about the Caribbean and not think of Shaggy. You're not gonna be on vacation and not think of Shaggy. You know what I mean, You're not you know you're gonna hear it. I don't think there is one resort that you're going to go into Caribbean that you're not gonna hear angel or wasn't me on one of these records being played? So I embody the Caribbean life. I am body that. I embody my culture, you know what I mean? I sell it every single day because I think it's greatest culture of all time. If you look at Jamaica, an island with three million people and what it has done on popular culture. Everything that is Lady Gaga right, everything that you see that Lady Gaga or um what I could say, Doja Cator or Katy Perry? Are any of these people do? That's Grace Jones. When you look at you know, we were now in the Olympics with or Bob Slip team for the second time. They made a movie. On the first one. We don't even have snow. You know. That's that's how much of an overchieving set of people we are in Jamaica, you know. And so I sell that because you look at Chris Blackwell that created an Island Records that you know, I used to work for him, right exactly. I worked for Mark Berg. You go at him. How funny is that? Yeah? I used to plant parties. Was with Chris this uh, this past weekend in Jamaica. And when you sit there and think about this man signed you too, you know, the biggest rock one of the biggest rock bands in the world, you know, out of out of Jamaica. It's it's when you think about the magic that it is. You know, you think of my you look at my brother Sting, who have who has written you know, uh created the police, Uh you know from a hybrid sound of Jamaica, you know, and and it's it's it's magical. How can I not export that? How can I not embody that? You know? I somebody said to me that day, it's not whether you're Jamaican. Is can you imagine not being Jamaican? That's how I feel. And so I think a shaggy embodied that. You know, this is what I do. I love that, that's azing. I do it in a in a different way because there are stereotypical ways that people view Jamaicans. I'm not that stereotypic cool way. And I'm you know, I'm I'm all of that, you know. But I'm letting you know that there's a whole lot more to us. It's an energy, it's love, it's a spirit, it's a solid spirit vibe. We're open, you know, we're we're you know, it's not that thing, that one particular thing that you see us. We're that too, but not just that alone. I understand. It's not a it's not a caricature. Uh So what percentage are you lucky? And what percentage smart? I don't think I'm very lucky. Likewise, you're the only person besides myself who's really said that. And I just don't attribute it to luck either. It's funny, but most people say I don't gamble, I don't like gambling. I don't. I'm not attracted to anything called gambling or betting or anything like that. I attribute a lot of things to hard work and great ideas. I think. I don't. My mind is shut off. I think of things and I find what is known as cool factor. You cannot sell anything unless you have a cool factor. The cool is the greatest thing. Everybody wants to be cool. All these guys who are billionaires that you see, you know, they want to be around the cool person. In two minutes, they'll give their lips. All the dads with the cool sneakers and trying to be sweatshirt. Look, if you can create the cool, you're a success, you know. And I've created the cool on many occasions, many times. Well, it's funny that you said you created it, because if you are actually cool, that would be lucky, if you'd be lucky. Oh no, I'm not cool. I create the cool. But I'll sit down. I think of an idea, and I said oh, you know what that will be appealing and what is cool? Something that is relatable to people, right, but the exactly and so you got to sit down and think of that thing that trend, that thing that's gonna grab people's attention to be like, wow, that's that's kind of hot. You got to meet my daughter. My daughter is born. She's just cool. She's that girl that just seems like she was born in Malibu, natural relax. Everybody gravitates towards her. Everything she puts on looks good. She just it really starts from up from a charisma that you're blessed with. You have to have agree, you have to do. You see that person might be very wealthy or might be very talented by being they walk in, but they just don't light a room up. Yeah, you got the lighter you don't. You know? So people say today, oh, you could be a great singer, but you if you can't light a room up, nobody gives a ship what you sing. And you could be somebody who could just barely hold a note energy. But you walk in there and you you're shaking hands, kissing babies. Everybody's loving you. You walk in there and people turn around that who is that? That's energy? To me, It's funny because I'm going to be talking to Deepak Chopra and I want I want to talk about energy. A lot of people just spell that. I believe that energy that's like a real just like an spiritual energy that you have and you could let your light shine or you could kill it personally. I mean, it's up to you, but I do think that. You know, so many people are focused on their looks in a superficiality versus just how they feel, and it isn't looks. To be honest with you, it like, for instance, I realized years ago because I was in reggae music that it wasn't a level playing field for us. I'm from a small island. I'm in the music that's a minority music. You know. Uh, My Heart, which you're on is a is a station that is a company that has probably around nine hundred stations. Zero of them are reggae stations. So how do a guy like me get to be on mainstream? I realized a long time ago that I had to do. I had to not just be a star, but become a superstar, a star with superhero like presence, talents, and work ethic, you know. So I realized that I had to work ten times harder than the average person, make music ten times more appealing and unique, right and hotter, because it wasn't a level playing field. And the minute you learned that, then you start to create it. But that comes with your you having this charisma, you having I overdo all of it just to be on the playing field because you're it's not left. I'm not privileged. And once you realize you're not privileged, you're gonna put that work in. You know, being being privileged is probably the worst thing that could ever happen to anyone because they don't really work for it because they get bits handed to them. I said that to my children these days, and I was like, you know, there's certain amount of privilege is going to reach them because of the success that I have. But I try very hard to let to tell them that, Okay, you do not want to be that privileged person. You're gonna go through life and not be uh and not appreciate the things that you get, and you're gonna lose it because anything you don't appreciate you will lose very quickly. The last question, it's such a nice conversation. I'm really enjoying this, Um, thank you. My last question is rose and thorn of your career. Oh, I've had some thorns. It's like taking the l. You're gonna take the l, but if you turn it the other way, you move it from losing to lesson. You know. That's Matthew McConaughey's green Light book. He said green light. Red lights that stop you are actually green lights. So you're looking at it from both sides. The thorns have been some incredible lessons for me, Um, and I just don't think you could have such a beautiful flower without those thorns. And for me to become the flower that I'm going that I've become and I'm continuing to bloom, I need those thorns, you know, so I look get it like that, you know, and and every nod and listen. If you're a good person, there's a moral compass. Do not sway from your moral compass. You feel it when you're doing something fucked up. If you feel something that you're doing is fucked up, is fucked up, and Mama, how you try to convince yourself that it isn't. That's your moral compass. I I stay focused to my moral compass and put my my my finger on the pulse. And you gotta learn to read the room. No when to take yourself away, no when to exit, no one to interject yourself, No when to talk, no one not to talk, no when to just listen. It's reading a room. If you can't read a room, my god, I don't care how educated you are. You can't read the room. You're life is going to be hard for you. It's someone said to if you don't know who the fish is in the room, the fishes you and I guess they mean like the schmucker whatever, the fishes like the schmuck in the room as you. If you don't, you can't figure out who the schmuck is in the room is. You got to read the room. You got to read the room and figure out who these people are and worry and where do you fit in the room. Sometimes you may be in a room that it's just you just don't fit in the room. That's cool too, I'm like, Okay, this ain't for me. Don't be scared to take yourself away from things that just you're just not you're not comfortable with. It's so true Well, there's been so many albums, tight as a wall, a book for you, read the room. It's been such a pleasure talking to you. Honestly, I really and I did not know enough about you. And I've found this to be such a great place to really meet people and learn about them. And I've gotten so much perspective in my own life from people that I would have never met. So I'm so grateful. Well, thank you, Bethany. I know a lot about you because i've I've kind of seen your journey and and and uh and and I'm very um you know, I got the congratulation. You've come from a place and you've made yourself up, and you've become very successful and and and you steadfast because there was a lot coming at you at times and you're like, Okay, this is me and I'm going to do my things. So congratulations. Well, likewise, it's the rose and the pedal and the thorns, so it's true. Well, I can't wait till we get to meet one day in person and give my love to your family. Well that was Shaggy, What a great conversation, what a nice, solid, honest man. I really enjoyed it. I have just really gone deeper and deeper in reading about people and learning. And even my assistant will say to me, she said, I read about this person. Wow, They're so interesting. So it's like getting an education, and it's it's just I'm loving the people that are coming on and getting to hear their story sharing it with you. And it's often someone that we you probably know so little about, and there's so much to make up a person and their success. Uh, and I'm just adoring it. So thank you so much. Remember to rate, review and subscribe and keep listening. Thank you. H