My guest today is Eliza Schlessinger, comedian and writer. You've probably seen Eliza as hilarious stand up specials on Netflix or her movie Good on Paper that came out last year that my fiance Paul happened to produce. So I was really excited to have a conversation with Eliza and see what she's like offstage. Today we talked about comedy in the era of cancel culture, the ups and downs being a comedian, and so much more. Enjoy Um, did I meet you in a comedy club ever? Or no? No? And you starting Good on Paper which did really well on Netflix. Yeah, I wrote it all came from a general meeting with Paul in Boston several years ago. And you know, you don't get very many yeses, like concrete yeses in this business. And even when he gave me yes, I was like okay, and then flow and behold we made it happen. It's amazing, I know. And he's a real estate developer by trade, but only he's produced twelve movies as a side hustle, which is funny, and he's doing more now. So does it count as a side hustle if you've done twelve like on the side. I mean, I am a beauty influencer on the side, now, you know, and it's really on the side, like I have another whole business that's not that because I don't wear makeup. As you could see at this time, I wrestle with that. I was like, am I putting on makeup for a podcast and I've been not doing it because chances are you and I were both doing something before this. Also, like I just keep I was connected, like what are we doing here? Like my trying to convince the world that I have like a flawless Instagram tune face, like I don't care who see me. I have no Yeah, I mean I want to look fresh, and you know, I'll I might this might get posted on social but I'm out here. I don't care either. I'm the same exactly. I was just saying in a rant that I am not a vain person, and I would like to be slightly more vain. So then when Chico sideways, I could at least look at my face and tell myself what's wrong because no one else is going to tell me. But no one else will ever say, especially in l A, no one also ever tell you what's wrong. I called my agent. I'm like, am I weird looking? Is that what? I didn't get it? They're like, no, they love you. I'm like, oh, but I've seen your on TikTok or is it Instagram reels? You're like, You're like, I'm calling them like six second beauty or views. You're like, I got this walgraen crap. Next thing, I got this all may I have a billion dollars. This is a dollar. I love it. Next thing like it's super low five. I'm not. I'm sure people are sitting there like writing down. I know. No, everyone's like not me at CBS dot dot dot. It's really fun. I enjoy it. I don't. I didn't know how to do my makeup before January one. I decided to learn about it and I just did this weird thing and now it's a thing. It's like a thing thing. Um Okay, So you're in Marthrew's vineyard, you live in l A and you know and look reading about you and I know who you are. I don't know how much I know who you are because of Paul and then you now being on my radar and then be following you on Instagram because you know It's funny. I was talking to Toe for Grace the other day about like levels of fame. He's the best levels of fame where you're famous, but like you still can have a life and you can go out and you're like, you know, are you niche? I'm niche? Like, so I was wondering if um, like, how famous are you? What is your life in l A? I love, Let's do l A and then let's do the like the rest of the country, Like how on a one to ten if Madonna's at ten or if Tom Cruise is a ten or Kim Kardashians a ten and you're, you know, high school gym teachers a zero? How famous are you? In your mind? Like with reality like people coming down their time saying or I was saying, I saw your Netflix special or all that stuff. I think if you have to ask how famous are you, it kind of answers the question. And I also think there's famous within certain groups. You know, like you were on Real Housewives. But you're a businesswoman, so that tends to permeate other circles that a woman with like a ship fashion line may not. Well you also, but yeah, you're you've been in movies, you're in a Netflix special, you're so I'm asking you like a food fair. If you go to a mall, are you going to be bothered or you can have it? Bothered isn't the word, but you know people come up to you. I mean, I'm not gonna list off like in the past twenty four hours too all. But it's usually like it's usually a girl will just be like are you and I'll be like, it's me and then they get excited or a dude will be like, oh do you know these three other male comics. Awesome, it happens, but you have to be at a serious level of fame for it to actually be a hassle, like right, and and people there are people that call like paparazzo themselves. It's never been a bother. Has it been creepy at time, sure, but it's never like please my family and I just want to eat at all of garden and privacy. So it's a nice level. So you have a nice like it's a little sizzle, but you could have your own life with your husband and having not be annoyed. If you're walking through an airport, Yeah, there's no annoyance because all so I don't know. I think people forget in this day and age, like especially as a stand up as a performer, like you have nothing without your fans. This is it based on anything else. This isn't like you put money in the market and that's what did it? Like you should be respectful the fact that these people take time and money out of their lives to support your selfish art. You know, so I always you always give me the time to day. Absolutely. Why did you say selfish aren't? Because stand up is this is your if you're a performer, you know this comes from a place of like, hey, I need you to look at me and hear what I'm saying. It's not like I'm a doctor or I'm doing humanitarian like at the end of the night, it's it's stand up. So do you feel like you're a comedian first and foremost and that was what you wanted to be or you wanted you saw the whole board and you wanted to do that, and you wanted to write and you wanted to be in movies, Like what was the trajectory in your mind? Ah, I was always gonna be funny for a living. And when you grow up somewhere like Dallas, Texas. Like there's no trajectory because there's no path. It's like, oh, I'll just be on Saturday Night Live like everybody right, unaware of all the avenues, you know. And of course the Internet didn't exist back then, which is so I'm loath to say. Um. And so when I started doing stand up that I got the most energy from doing it that way. And then you know, you auditioned for stuff, but there are people who put in ten thousand hours and really work at auditioning, and I'm putting in that time and stand up and it's leading to its own thing. So I always wanted to be funny for a living. And sometimes that's in stand up, sometimes it's in a movie. Sometimes it's in writing. You know, as an artist, you just want to keep creating and affecting people. And I don't I don't know that our world allows for that understanding sometimes. But yeah, And your trajectory was getting up on stage in Dallas and like open mic nights. And I went to school in Boston and I went to film school like everybody else, like every intern in your office, and I got to l A. I started doing it there and I started like two five with it, like with a real job, like I had an office job. I was someone's terrible assistant. But this is something you know, you talk about side hustles that I would go and do at night. And then one day I called my mom and I said, I need to borrow one thousand dollars so I can purchase a computer and I'm gonna try this full time. And it worked out, and so here we are at thirty nine. So you got that, you got the hit, you liked it, and you started doing it like every just going to every night and then traveling and then doing that whole circuit. Yeah, I mean there is no people always ask advice like it's you got to just do it. It's not like unlike being an entrepreneur like you have to or being a bodybuilder, like you have to just do it. It's being a it's being somebody who's in a kitchen actually because you have to make a recipe, screw it up and again, like you have to keep going. It's repetition and keep going through and trying different ways. It's interesting. Is a chef and it's and you know, so there is there's been a chef, so we initially bonded over the fact that we both you know, work at night, but there is I don't think people understand when you're building something like it is something that it wakes you up at night. You love it so much even when it's the most painful, and you just keep going. And it's not even about if people encourage you or they're shitty to you. It's only what matters is the voice in your head and uh, just going and taking every opportunity and and then when you get rejected writing a movie in your off time. Well it's funny because I don't know if everybody listening realizes how insanely competitive and crowded it is, because I've met so many successful comedians, um, whether it's Kim Whitley or Sharad Small's or you know a lot of people who have popped off, but not like you know to like Robin Williams level. I mean, I know Kevin Neil and I know Chris Rock For some reason, I know a lot of the comedy people I'm attracted to that I took classes and groundlings. I know Amy Schumer like I don't know why I've always gravitated towards the Comedy Space. I mean probably because as a kid, I was watching you know, Eddie Murphy and um, like watching Rich Prior and like I watched all of it, the old school Bill Cosby, so I'm aware of it, but it's so competitive, and um, I did it one time. I don't Paul got a camera crew because we were thinking of doing what would I do for an n f T that like no one would ever be able to see? And I said I'll go up and do stand up, which was like why did I just say that out loud? And I did it at New York Comedy Club ten days later, after calling some of these people that I told you about, like Bridget Ever, calling Kathy Griffin, I called every ellen to ask like what tips everybody had, and each person had very different tips, like no two were the same, and it was like I was crowdsourcing to figure out how I would do it. Um, I think it was Kim Whitley or Kevin. I think it was Kim Whitley who decided or asked me, like what was my style? Like she was like, or Kevin might have asked that, but she said, you're you rant, like you just are aggravated about something you need to say it. And then and we were talking. I was talking to Kevin Neil and about how he it is more like it's a long story that just keeps going on and it builds up, and so I had never thought of that. I wanted to say, like, ay, what is your style? And second of all, I didn't get I did fairly like people laughed. It wasn't a bomb at all, like it was on a one to time. It was probably six, you know, like zero being no one laughing to tend like being caught like crazy raucous laughter. But I didn't get any sort of like wow, I'd survived that and that was good, and I would want to I need to do that again. I didn't have that. For some reason. I felt that it was like that's a lot obviously to be sitting there and like your goal is to get fed from these people and if they don't feed you, like you're hungry or like you didn't get what you needed. And I found that to be really interesting. I want to know what you think about that, and that like that thought that I still felt. I mean, there's what you're talking. I mean, these are these are themes, but it's also you know, I'm I've been doing it almost twenty years. So I just shot my sixth Netflix special and that comes out on October eleventh, the same day as my book. We did do it on purpose. So what's it? What are they called? First of all, well, the special is called Hot Forever, and the book is called All Things Aside, Uh, All Things Aside, the collection of personal essays. It's my second book, and I just figured at thirty nine, I just had a baby. The books not about having a baby, but it's a collection of essay is just sort of life as I see it now, just as a woman, just my my own lens. And Hot Forever is not unlike that, you know, but it's stand up and uh at this level, it's there's a couple of things. You know, you built up a reputation, you have a brand. I want to make sure that everybody who's comes who comes to my show, they're always leading uplifted, even though we're calling out some major, uh inconvenient truth about our society and things like that. And you know, I also like to get into the idea that we tend to get angry when women have a very strong opinion. We only call women bossy or opinionated, you know, and I reject all of that. I'm like, you've got something to say, you back it up with intelligence and comedy, and men will want to listen to that as well. Um, and so that's what my my stand up is. You know, there are rants at times, there's it comes from a very specific point of view. I think it's its own unique thing. Uh, And it's hyper energetic. But the feedback that I get is it's less about how I see it, more about people say it. People leave feeling seen, and I think I do stand up to feel seen and feel heard. And I always kind of want to take up for people who maybe don't feel they have the license to say something. You always have to wrap your agenda with humor, any lessons, any morals, because I think the stakes are too high in our society to not be saying something. When you have a microphone and say people and an arena in Ottawa, you've got to say something. So that does it feel strange to you? Like it's funny because I saw Amy Schumer in the Hampton's at this bizarre event that I was texting her about afterwards because it was crazy and I can't believe some of the situations you guys get yourselves into where you have to perform. She's performing effectively on an airstrip, like sure air like at an airport in the wood in the woods, so she probably got so much money. I do a lot of shows for our troops, so like I've done a lot of USO. So that is it's three in the afternoon, you're playing for a hundred troops plus the Afghan troops um on a deck at a fob, and the sun is hot. You are playing. I shot Elder Millennial one of my specials on an aircraft carrier and end up in Cathy Hilton's backyard recently, like the check players, we go no, no, no exactly, and I just I texted, I can't imagine there has to be if you didn't get paid x, I said, it wasn't worth it. They were moving pieces of large pieces of furniture in front of me while she's performing liket away. They put us so far from her that if I was on fire, Amy Schumer wouldn't have been able to see me so much less hear my laughter. Like let's put the comedian on an island there they can't hear us laugh or engage and in a respect given to stay end up. It's basically like at an event, they're like, we'll do the eulogy and then we'll put up the comedian. Like it doesn't even matter how famous you are or if your man or woman. I did a corporate event one time. I don't remember the name of the company. It was some company that you've never heard of. It was in Vegas, and it was so much money, and it was all the different branch of the company from all over the world. And I'm up there and I start talking and a band just starts playing over me, and I was like, you know what, it's your time and whatever you guys want, let's get the show started. Like you can't control these things. You're just like, I mean you, there's some gigs, it's just you kind of go on autopilot. You're like, I'm gonna hit my marks, I'm gonna finish these jokes. I might do some crowd work, and time is up. I will see you at the bank and thick skin piece out. Don't give a good fuck. Even if these five thought you sucked because you set up so for failure, they I guarantee it's not even that you suck, it's that they didn't even know you were there or you always have to remember to never negay the fact that there are people who can hear you, who are having fun, and so what you don't want to do is be like this sucks. You guys are listening because the twenty people in front are like, don't we can we count? You? Know? So again, it's all about user experience. I want the audience to have from the playlists I put together till the last meet and greet, like I want people to know that I respect their money and their time and that we're putting on a real show. I put on like I don't ever drink before a show. I come out there. I do my full time. A lot of comics, don't you know, or it's a hassle. I never want people to feel that I don't respect that they've made that effort, you know, Yeah, and are you able to turn it off? Or all day? Anything that's funny gets written down in that book. Anything all day that's it's funny that you think about, you have to write it down because it's part yeah, but it's it's not this like compulsory thing where you're just like, I'm sorry, Mr President, please, I need to write this thing down about right now. You haven't. You know, you've got a little bits of paper, You've got thoughts, and sometimes it goes in the iPhone um and then there are weeks that go by where nothing gets written down. Like, I'm a big believer in like periods of intake. Sometimes you just have to exist as an entity on this planet. And just if it it's you, yeah, let it breathe or just be a person. It's gonna. I mean, I go up enough that like you're always working on something. I do all my writing on stage. I don't sit at a computer and write it out. So what does that mean? Like I write jokes, I write them as I say them. I go on stage and I just talk about a thing, or I'll think of a tag or all improvise off of that, and then I'll remember what I said and that becomes the act. I don't sit at a computer and think like what would be funny and write it out right right right? That makes sense? That makes sense. You're like free associating and improvising and then you structure it afterwards. Yeah, I mean, you have jokes and you know. But that's like I was saying, like every joke is a little different each time, and sometimes an audience give you something, sometimes they don't, and I believe what works always sticks. So it's all completely memorized. Nothing, nothing's written down. That's what I think is interesting is when I was doing this that one time, and it's something I've always wanted to do, Like it was just something that bothered me because I'm not the person that wants to do something and then is afraid to do it. So that was part of the reason that I did it. And everyone said, oh, I'd be great at that, or I want to do that like every person. It's really and it's that that would be irritating if I were you know what I mean. Because my Matt Clarburg and Barry Clarberg, my business managers at the time, we're like, oh, yeah, no, I'd be great. Every one says I'd be great because I when I teach my class, I'm like, okay, so get up and do it too. Like that week, it's always always met yeah, because you did about mits for speech that was good last year and frankly only four of the jokes were good. But and that week I had a week of being you, because that one week I was like, well, I'm the one who's gonna get up in the real comedy club in a pandemic when people are six ft away in masks and they're only were allowed to be fifteen people the first day they opened up at the New York Comedy Club, and so get up to make me feel better, because then I'll feel like because I made it, Like what I was doing that week wasn't a thing. So I thought that was interesting but more important than my stupid experience that everyone thinks they could do it, and um, forget whether someone could be good enough. But why is everyone afraid to stand up? And like why is it so scary? What is so scary? What makes fools themselves every day? Like why is that so scary? Why is it? Dying is easy? Comedy is hard. Public speaking, obviously everyone knows, is like the number one fear. Nobody wants to be ridiculed, nobody wants to be judged, nobody wants to be laughed at in a bad way, nobody wants to be embarrassed, and nobody wants to be vulnerable. It is an incredibly vulnerable thing and so that's like laying all of your fears and insecurities bear, and the beauty of it is saying please laugh at me, because when they're laughing with you. I always say that people laugh at something for two reasons. Either they totally get it and they feel you or they're like, that's so weird, what are you talking about? And I always I believe that the comedy God's reward vulnerability. The more honest you are about your experience without trying to look cute or clever, like, the more just gut wrenchingly honest you are. That's what people women in particular, like, that's what people resonate with. That's when someone says, oh my god, because stand up is meant to be consumed in the dark with alcohol, because it's this like delicious, revealing sort of sadistic thing. And when someone gets up there and they come into the light, there's a reason the audience is in the dark, and they bear their soul. They say something like I'm getting ready for a date. I have to shave my big toe because I'm wearing sandals. Every woman in that audience is like, oh my god, I do it too, especially and I talked about this a lot in my New Hour especially, there's so much shame around being a woman, and so much we don't tell each other, not because we're mean, but because we've been taught to be embarrassed. So when another girl gets up there and says something honest, you get to feel seen as a woman. When you know that someone else has gone what you've gone through, what you've gone through, it is incredibly uplifting. And we all look for reflections of ourselves in media in other people, and some people it's the most impactful with a comic, But what you said translates so much further than just in comedy that if you're just vulnerable and honest, you know, without it being canned. And I think a lot of times now on social media people are trying to be so honest in a way that is designed for people to feel like sorry for them. And I think that's different than what you're saying. You're saying just truly truly authenticity, you know exactly. I also think and commitment like I remember or seeing you know, when you see kids do a talent show or something like wait a second, I gotta start again, like let me started again, Like I wasn't ready like it's that it's Cameron Diaz in that movie My best Friend's Wedding when she was the worst that the karaoke but she just committed. I think commitment gets you a really I think it also helps to look like Cameron Diaz. Like people are like, oh, you accidentally ran me over. It's okay, you're stunning, right, No, but no to look Amy Schumer is beautiful. But Cameron Diaz was a model. But Amy Schumer committed in the movie that movie it was it, what was I feel pretty? When she got up in that Striptisia committed she was a disaster, but she committed. I'm saying I think commitment and comedy and a life goes a long way being just like dedicated to what you're doing, what people are being. So people are being similar to that on social media though, which is why I find it interesting, like people, oh is it being so that people it's so immediate, so raw, like because you're saying right, then you're exposed and it's so vulnerable. Um and other places people will just say something and then walk away from it because it's not so like the person is not right in front of you, not laughing, That's what I'm saying. Like, it's so just, it's so like there's no middleman. You're not just putting it up somewhere, you're not posting it. It's not in a movie. It's you and the audience. There's literally no filter, like there's literally And you know that's why there's different social media too, Like Instagram is very different than TikTok, which is hyper raw, hyper honest, and they want that experience that generation does because I just obsessively watch both. But that's why, you know, people are very brave in a comment section, people are very brave. It's very easy to come out and call someone a name or say they did something wrong. It's very easy to do that behind the end and remity of a handle. So that's why you can't really argue with the comment section, because who the fund is that person? And for better for worst, stand up comics have the guts to say what they want to say and stand there in front of strangers, and and you take that risk because you know that what you have to say, at least for me, there's an honesty and a beauty behind it, and and you're coming from a good place. Well, let's talk about comedy that lands and doesn't, and that could be the difference between cancelation and not. I mean, by many other people's definitions, Dave Chappelle would have been canceled ten times because of the things that he is capable of saying, because he's such a word smith and a craftsman and just like probably that to me is probably the best ever. He's like amazing male comedian, uh even rivaling Eddie Murphy and and Richard Dreyfus. But other people, you know, Michael Richards will be in you know, in a comedy club and say something and be canceled forever. These are two very different things. I mean, just in case your audience doesn't know, referring to when Michael Richards, who played Kramer couldn't handle a heckle, was at the laugh Factory, so I know what that crowd is, and he just went on a racist rand. He just kept saying in word over and over. You can say things that are un pc, but make sure it's funny. He wasn't saying a joke like you may as well just be on the street. So that's and that happens like that was just pure You lost your cool. I understand what you're saying. It wasn't part of an act that bombed, It wasn't part of a it was a just a criticism. That's a great that's a great note. So Dave Chappelle is saying things within a context and crafting a story, and look, he gets faulted for saying things to people get outraged. People are very protective over what they are everybody. Nobody has a problem laughing at everyone else. But when it's about you, oh it's about women, or it's about my ethnic group, for my religion, then people get very barked. And I understand that without getting into specifically what Dave said. You know, I have my own thoughts about trans jokes, and I put them up there with oven jokes like I don't like them. I don't do them. I don't think they're funny. That being said, if you've got a good one, okay, um, But I always look at intention and context, you know, And I think we go around getting very upset without watching, without understanding those things, and people getting canceled upon. Right. The market dictates the market. It's exactly I've I've said things right now that a year ago I would have gotten destroyed, for I did get destroyed and then said the same thing a year later. Timing the tides where people are, I think we're coming out of a time of hyper hyper sensitivity and entering a time of truth right now. I feel like there's a lot of truth telling right now, and people would rather see warts and all and unfiltered than sack or in fear based bullshit. I think it's in then I gotta be like I believe in and overcorrect. So I'm okay with what has happened, because for so long it was just so unacceptable the way women were treated conversation about people of color, things like that gig, like certain words and slurs. I'm oh, I like that these people that we have a voice. It was heard. But now as we come back to something in the middle, you know, this outrage culture, you always have to look at who is outraged. And I always joked because I was gonna make a TikTok about this, and I talked about this, I did a Netflix taping. White people are always trying to outwoke each other, hoping that like a black person be like, wow, she gets it. They're not gonna You're not gonna get a gold start. So you, as a white woman flipping the funk out about being anti racist on another white woman, It's just do the work, do the real voting, have the real conversations. But a lot of it I call it performative ethics. And this is not just white women. I'm just giving an example. The it's rarely about correct action and education, and it's always about burning someone and canceling someone. It would be delicious one of your followers to find you and be like Jeffany Frankel said this about so and so, let's watch her burn versus privately damning you, like, hey, Bethany said this one thing. I just want to let you know this affects these people. But nobody does that. Just say sorry, even say I'm sorry, I sucked up, I did something wrong, tell me wrong. But also, by the way, you notice, none of this is happening in a real space. This is all happening on like Web three, Like this is all happening in the comment section of an app. Nobody has the balls to see this person and say something to them in person. Because people are gutless and bored and on the toilet. That's what this is. It's easy to try to cancel someone because while I didn't like her and she offended me this one time, so she should burn because people are unhappy. It's shot and fried. I agree if i'm I want to be doing that? Yeah, I agree, And they went and it's like a host and and parasites that fun when something you do something wrong, all the parasites like flee to the host to like suck off the blood. And literally all you have to do is either give it no oxygen or post something else, and the angry mob will pick up their pitchforks and they will go try to eat each other. Yes, there's a timing to it, because you can poke the bear, but there is. It's like, yeah, yeah, you have to, you have to let a breathe for a second to it's it's insane what happens, and you think it's real and it's usually not real, and brands are scared and it gets to be this crazy as you thing. But so how much what percentage of your life in creativity are you a little afraid? Like how much do you have to hold back? There's no way I can't speak for you. You're saying every single thing that comes to your mind. You say it, but I think it's not even about I'm not good at math, So it's not about quantifying as much as when I have a thought, like what's the kernel of that thought? And then how do we contextualize it so that what I'm saying can have can misconstrued the least you know, what's the right way to do this? Who do we talk to in this joke? What words do we choose? And that is when we get to the craft of stand up and of comedy, whether it's comedy writing too versus just being the funny friend, because I'm not a fan of like, oh, I have no filter. I just say whatever. It's like, No, this is a crap, Like there's a reason you laugh at a joke and it's not an accident. It was the words chosen, the numbers chosen, Like there is an alchemy to this. Noah, of course. And so when you're making these points, you know, you can make a sloppy political point where you can really hone in like the bad pitches what I was talking about with the woke stuff, I'm like, it's a woke off. It's about being scared that you will be called racist sometimes it's not even about doing the work. It's just nobody wants to look bad, you know. So just being specific with your words, well that's by the way, in every business meeting and every deal, the truth is I have said things that could easily be said in another way. You just didn't catch it. You just it's you can get the same exact point across, and not everything needs to be said. Sometimes something's just bugging me, and I know the I'm gonna get slapped a little for it, but I want to say it. But how am I going to say it? You know? So I think that's important too. It's also you know, you're a woman, so whatever you say or don't say, Kennon will be used against you. And so look, you've taken all this stuff. I write about this endlessly. You can't let it drive you crazy. You know, people could look at this conversation and be like, there are two women. They're talking too fast. You know. At the end of the day, we all just do our best, and we all forget that other people are doing their best when we're judging them. And so it really is like, how do you just like feel okay about yourself when you're not being told by others you're doing a good job. I don't have that answer. I feel bad a lot of times, but you just do it your best, you know. Well, yeah, in the words of Kathy Griffin, you can't be who you're not um but social media, you're nodded when I said it's not for therapy. Have you noticed what I've noticed? We see people really emoting and I'm going through a really hard time right now, Like this is the worst it's ever been. This is my low. And I'm like, why are you, Like we're you're calling me when this is your low. We don't know each other that I think there is that vulnerability and like i can't talk to the people around me, so I'm just gonna share with strangers because there is that lighter side where like strangers will give you that positivity. Your mother's gonna that's dangerous. That's a dangerous game. What's dangerous also is and I talked about this. I have a chapter in my book called everything is a Scam. Oh my God, I say all the time, everything is a scam. That's that's always say all day. It's a scam. It's you're a New Yorker and I'm from New York. But I'm really but I was raised in Dallas, Texas, but I have that very East Coast everything is a scamp. I just had to talk to assistant who bought me travel insurance. I'm like, what is this and she was like I didn't know. I'm like, you're just a baby. It's a scam. You know, we all want to help. I actually donate a lot to your charity because you were doing a lot of like boots on the groundwork in Ukraine. So I reposted your charity because like, I don't know you, but I like, I know her, I trust her, I knowall thank you. So I did, but I was like, I know that's not a scam. But a lot of times people post and like your heart, your heart hurts, and you're like, I want to help, And then you're like, how do I know this person is real? How do I know this is going to the right thing? How do I know this is not a bullshit charity? And so people are constantly reaching out and you're like, it's not that I don't want to help you, is that I think you might be lying to me And you're saying that because I love that you're saying that because in in philanthropy it is the most scam ridden place ever and it's a lot of celebrities posting links directing to other people that are controlling the entire charity and they just post the link because it looks like the cute picture of a koala with oil on it, you know, from a spill. Then you get dings. You know, you get dinged for how you participate and how you don't. So I post something, I'm like, you know, help the people of let's say you praying, Oh my god, so you don't care about these and these people, Oh you didn't do this, and you're just like or then you do still have a business. I have a platform to talk about this because of comedy, So we do have to get back to that to post postposed in the next day, it's like, where's your posting about that? By the way, beyond like it makes us all have to be doing what we think we're supposed to be doing versus what we're actually passionate about doing. Like I on the same day, let's say a week, I can raise a million dollars in a week with Ukraine, but also put on hair and make up an eyelash and sit down and do this podcast and also do something bank some superficial content. Now I mean not post the superficient content that I'm banking, because I know that that's like quote unquote tone deaf. But why, I'm a mother and I work, I am, I have air Mes bags and I send relief to Ukraine. Right, it's not like it's not like you're live streaming yourself from a funeral. Like you have a sense of decorum and you are a multifascinated person. To moreover, this is what is required of us in order to have the platform so that we can be judged. And so I was taking with a grain of salt, you know, And I usually it's ignore those people. But I even talk about in my book Help, It's why you can't live for other people now facts, because the truth is I talked about the luxury giveaway scams with and it was the week that the Ukraine war broke out, and for me, I was looking at Ukraine. So when I saw the Kim Kardashian million dollars and air mes and Gucci boxes, I was like, what the funk? But she's doing what she does. She got paid probably a million dollars or twenty million dollars and she's doing what she doesn't Ukraine not to pile on. I do think that family could stand to do a little bit more public facing. But they could then it's the reason that it's bullshit. That's like, by the way, I don't know, they could be donating millions of dollars to help the sea turtles, and I have no idea. I doubt you tend to know those things. I don't know. People who have a lot of money tend to be very quiet about how they donate these things because then everyone wants their money. I am here and Martha's vineyard, I am seeing that everywhere. So I guess at the end of the day, the lesson is, if you want to hate someone, do it privately from a burner and your Graham account and just watch them at night gnawing on your knuckles like I do. But at the end of the day, you just don't know if someone's evil or you just you don't know what they're doing. But I think it goes back to that whole theme of you figuring out how to say things, and in order to do what you do and still have a career, you have to figure out how the delivery is going to be. I also think, you know, there's the way that you say it, and then our audiences are very afraid now, So there's certain buzzwords that you say, Like I said Israel. I don't remember what I was talking about. I said Israel in the crowd went silent, and I called them out. I was like, oh, so we can't even say the word Israel because you've been if you say black, oh my god, I'm like, so we can't say the color black. There is a beauty in calling it out and people realize, oh my god, my spincer was clenched, and then we can all come together. So there there are levels to it. You know, it's not about you're walking into a landline. Sometimes you don't know. For example, i'm i'm. I talked very publicly about the Kardashians. I wanted to for a long time. I will even use the word. I was afraid to do it. I was cautious about doing it. And the pinata opened up and the candy came out, and I was shocked. You'll be shocked with no backlash. Think about the reach, think about the followers, and a lot of them are bought. I was shocked that not a single no one came in one out of ten thousand comments would be like, oh, women not supporting women? But but nobody was having a problem with it. And if if I said anything about when I've said anything about anybody else, people comm I thought that was interesting. Right. What always bothers me about the women not supporting women comment is it reduces us down to a simple gender, and it it takes away our complexity. And so yeah, a lot of times it is you know you should. I don't believe in blindly supporting someone based on their chromosomes. But I also said don't believe. Yeah, I agree with you, but I also I don't believe on hurting them because of it. I'm a competitive person. I want to I want to do better than that man and that woman. I've never seen that as gender. So when someone's like, you didn't support a woman, I'm like, what was she funny? Why would I support a person? But what if you don't support that? We like, literally, I have spent more time on Kelly Ripper's book this week than my own book. I did it because I really care about her, Like we have a good relationship, and I support that woman, of course, but yeah, do not support all women, and we support all people. That's dogs, you're not. It's some summer two wiring. But I know, I think you know. I was actually thinking about this the other day. My friend Rebecca Searle is like a New York Times belt best selling author. She um right, sort of like young young adult, like romantic, not even not younger, just like romantic fiction. It's it's really fun and she does really well. And I always see her books because I'm always in an airport. I always see her books, and I actually get very proud and excited. There is nothing like when you're a woman and you have a friend that you genuinely only want to see succeed and you actually are their cheerleader versus. And I talked about this in my New Hour. This glitterized, uh, pro girl, girl girl, but I was like, I'm not a girl, But what does that even mean? I don't like that, Like it's all it's all this like weak hand job, like look empowering women. No, you know what empowers women, equal pay, education, pay gap closing, and so there is something too, you know, we are called upon to like blindly just like love all of our MoMA's sister bears. And it's like we all have those women in our lives that we love and and just cannot wait to see thrive. And it's so fun to watch that. And that's what real strength feels like. And you don't have a ton of that, and that has nothing to do with who you are. It's just not everybody is quality, and not everybody is worth championing, and you can't spend days times. Yeah, I'm lad, I'm fine saying I do not. I support the women and men that I support, and that's my own body of male comics asked me for help, and I'm like, I can't do it. I don't believe in your comedy. No, I agree, and you and I very much would go on for days about this, but we both are the same. Whatever. Someone says, what's it been like being in business as a woman, And I'm not saying I and I know I'm I'm white, and I know I'm privileged. I'm saying that I've had to deconstructed thinking about how men have man splained me. But I never knew that word, and I never even knew what it meant. But I had to recently, since I'm asked the question a thousand times, I thought to myself, what And then when a guy talks to me like I'm a junior player, even though we're in the same position, it's something we've been trained to just accept and don't realize that like that's been happening forever, even if it's not so overt. But when I asked that question, I was like, I never thought about writing a woman or a man. I just plowed through, and I don't I'm a strong woman, like I'm a I'm a strong person. I'm a strong business person, and I can take on any man in any arena. I don't care if I'm a woman or a man. That's just me. Doesn't mean that, No, I don't think it's just I think I think this is something. I mean, I feel the exact same way, which is what I've been trying to be friends with you for a very long time. Fine, um, And I was talking to my mom about it. You know, there is this premium we place now on the female struggle. Like my mom was a single mom and she and I'll tell you what, my mom was a single mom for a period, and I never and I'm a very strong minded individual. We never the word feminism has never come up, had never come up my entire It just wasn't talked about in the nineties. But moreover, I never heard my mother say anything like any of this, like raw raw feminism, go girl, any of that stuff. She just did because when you're actually working and surviving and doing things, you don't have time to talk about exactly. And so she's just like she's a New Yorker. She's very blunt, you know, she's very like, not in like a rude way, just she's just tough. She just gets it. And that's how I am a It's only when I got into comedy, and it's only in l A and it is a show business that you have to answer for the way that you always were. How did you get into comedy? Were you a funny woman woman in comedy? I'm like, I just did it because no one said I couldn't and no one said I could, and I didn't think about it and I just went. And now I have to contextualize it like I'm some fierce diva. That's exactly, that's exactly that some genius. Because I entered into cocktails, I didn't know anything. I walked into a store and saw a thousand. I was like, why am I doing this now? I didn't know. There was no locality. I didn't know, there was no nothing. I didn't know liquor was run by men. I never know you didn't know what you didn't know, which is a gift. Like I never mattered enough to anyone for anyone to tell me I sucked, and I never mattered enough for anyone to say, go do it. My mom was super cool. But like, and I think when that it's just me you're born with think, you're like, I'm just gonna go. I'm just gonna work. It's gonna do it. Yes, But also it's funny that you just said you didn't matter enough, right, Did you have a mentor's are I didn't know what then tour was. I would know to look for a mentor. No one want to mentor me. It was like, that's lingo that we make up to frame what's happened. That's exactly what you just said. That's exactly like anally to come up with the best idea, best thing to say about female work life balance. I don't fucking know. I do well everything I do wear very well. That's all I know. Not only that, I mean that's the skill in of itself, Like stand up is, it's a solo sport if you're a writer, Like if you're on a TV show, you're gonna be with people if you're an actor. But like, it is you in the delta lounge, if you're lucky, it is you on a regional flight. It is you in a hotel and you you know, and you have a community, You've got the friends. But when I started there, I didn't know anyone. No, And I'm not saying this out of bitterness. There was no woman who like reached out to me to be like, I want to help you. It is a competitive we say no way, I mean it happens. But you're on your own on a regional flight and Regina, Saskatchewan. How is someone going to reach you like your no, you're doing it, no, and you're a line. And when you bomb alone, you bomb, you bomb alone, you die, you die alone. Yeah No, but it's true when I when you sign, I say, when you sign the paper, it's your name. There's all these other people around here, and they have all these decisions they want to make. But I'm always like, it's my fucking ass. I'm alone, and you're alone on a plane and on the stage. It's funny you say that. Like I was talking with with my team. You know, we're talking about a show and there was an issue with ticketing and it was not my fault, but people don't see that. They see it as your fault. Like lies in the South working, I'm like, we pay a heavy fee, you do too for this link. And I was explaining to them there was a show I wanted to cancel. I was like, we've moved this now twice. I look bad, not my team, not anyone. I as the artist. People get angry at me. I can't have that. People don't think about this is your blood, sweat, tears of reputation. And you know, if if people don't expect a quality product, then what do you have. You have to know it's it's yours, I'm saying, And I give him a lot of ship. But Kylie Jenner had this like bathing suit where someone's whole entire vagina was sticking up high doubt. She was in China sewing the bathing suits. So as a nineteen year right girl, you know she's responsible because it's her name on it, but you know it's her. It's her name, and it's her vagina on the line, but it's not technically her. That's so the bathing suits for sure. But wouldn't it be delicious to watch someone like that crumble? I mean, that's the whole ethos of our society exactly. You know, people would love to see you knock down, people would love I mean, I look, I have not watched Real Housewives uh in over a decade, but when I did watch it, even before you were at the height you're right now, I remember thinking, I remember thinking this woman doesn't belong here. I remember watching you and thinking she's a legitimate business mind like you happen to be on the show, which is I get the pr but I was just like, this is a real person with a real brain, not your husband's money making a lotion company, not a fake fashion show. And I always and then you'd say, stuff, I don't this is when we ever go and I feel weird to bring up, but there was something. You were on a trip, one of those like forced work trips they make you go on with these other women, and everyone wears drills and someone was tired, and you just went like, then go to sleep. Oh the Kelly go to sleep. That's an iconic scene as a New York hearted person, It's like that thing where you're like, you don't like something then affects it, like making it up identity. And I was reminded of go to sleep. When I had my baby. We weren't giving her I don't know. She's in the other room, she's with the nanny and she's crying, and my mom comes out of the guest room. She goes give her a path of buyer, and I'm like, dude, we I don't know, that's really funny. Well, you're very interesting and really nice to talk to, like funny and then you said interesting, no, because we know you're funny. And that's how I started saying to like Angela and Jolie, you're pretty like we know, like you know what I mean, we are. You're not just a funny face. Thank you funny face, but you know you are. You haven't you know, you don't have a strang long perspective. And I did not know we'd agree on so many things and things all right, okay, I know, all right, Well, I say it's a fucking scam every day, all day, and I'm gonna send you scams because it's a scam. Um. But hopefully you don't think this podcast is a scam because it's literally a garage band that for the first year I was I didn't make a dollar. I didn't even know understand that the medium. But I love doing this so you were really fun. Thank you for having me, and I will send you a copy of all things aside. Yeah, I was gonna there's only one question that I ask everyone. What's your rose and your thorn of your career? Oh my god, there's more roses than thorns, and even the thorns, like like travel, you learn to appreciate because it's good to get your blood circulating when it pricks you. I think rose is of the many roses. I will say this one being able from your brain to come up with something that turns into a currency, like we have a house. I have had houses because of a joke about a goblin that I thought out of you know, like it's not I didn't make something physically like it was just a funny thought. I had a funny turn that I polished. Um and taking that and being able to travel the world like I'm about to go on my second Asia tour. So walking into the room and like Kuala Lumpur and all these Asians and hidge Abs are looking at you and they are laughing at your jokes and we are not from the same world. It is the most gratifying thing. And so within that, having a context for my country, because we are so divided and it is so easy where you live to right off the rest of the country is fully insane. To get to see the country, have an understanding of what people go through, and to realize there are good people everywhere and not everybody looks the same and we all it's not as simple as the news would make it. So I I still do love America, even though we are a little bettered and beaten. And so getting that working context for my country and an actual knowledge versus just the bubble that I live. I love that. And the thorn is having to the fact that somebody had a liquid bomb twenty years ago and we still have to we still can't take liquids on planes. The thorn is other people. That's hilarious. And my roses that you have a sea horse, You'll always have a sea horse. Behind you on this podcast, at this rental property, in this awesome awesome, all right, well, thank you Eliza. Do we got we got your book, we got it all in. But I appreciate it. Thanks. This was great, appreciate, amazing. I have a good day.