Huma Abedin

Published Feb 22, 2022, 2:20 PM

On being bigger than heartbreak and working in the White House. 

You may know Huma Abedin as the loyal political aide to Hillary Clinton and from her marriage to Congressmen Anthony Weiner that fell apart on national television; but Bethenny discovers so much more as only Bethenny can.  

Plus, B's Rant: Being a bad tipper is the biggest turnoff ever. Don't let that be you. The tricks of tipping and how it gets you want! Bethenny explains.

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Yeah, can we all just tip really well in the pandemic. So now you see when you order food in they'll they'll say, that's what really only happens when you're in a restaurant and someone brings food to your table, they're actually working this. Usually a delivery person isn't getting the same as a server who served your whole meal. Guess what you gotta dig deep. Now's the time to tip. I have been tipping forty and I know I'm wealthy. I know it. It means it means more to them than it does to me. So whatever you can do. But some people are still going through that, you know, fift mentality of tipping. Everybody's been through it. It's terrible to get good staff now in restaurants and stores, it's impossible, and everyone's just everyone's been through it. Just tip really really well. Just understand that that's part of the whole program. If you're leaving the house, if you're ordering food, no matter where you are, what you're doing, if you're being serviced in any way, grabbing your bag, getting your car, helping you out, bringing something to a hotel room, bringing you know, shoveling your snow, doing your landscaping. Whatever it is, tip really really well, it's the time for it, and people really do notice it, and some people really forget it. Today's guest is Huma Aberdeen. She is a high profile politician, most known for her role as vice chair for Hillary Clinton's two thousand sixteen presidential campaign. She is a Muslim American woman who spent much of her life in Saudi Arabia. Her road to becoming a well known political staff or has not been easy, from starting out with an internship at the White House to becoming Hillary Clinton's right hand woman, Whoma is a force to be reckoned with in the political field. She is here to talk about it, go there and explain her life and journey on her own terms. She recently authored and published her memoir titled Both and A Life in Many Worlds, a New York Times bestseller. This book explores her personal and political life very intertwined. Though she's been faced with hardship over the years, Huma is able to rise through it all. Whoma's tale of triumph is sure to inspire you all. So, um, you've had an incredibly interesting life. I One of the first things that jumped off the page is just growing up and if you felt I spoke to um Bosama St. John who was saying that she felt so different being in this country and that her family ate different food and that she always just felt a little bit different and had to find a way to really shine and be herself. And she walks in to Netflix meetings in full sequence, and you know, she's totally owned who she is. But I just wonder if being quote unquote culturally different, how that has affected your life, your childhood, the way you see things, the way you've acted, had to be strong, that kind of thing, you know? For me, And first of all, I love Bosama, She's a dear friend. And I could totally I was nodding as you were describing her that way because I have been in a meeting and seeing her walk in and some beautiful, spectacular outfit which she's always in and then has something brilliant to say in every meeting. But you know, for me, I think it's the way I was raised. My parents, both you know, immigrants, raised us to come to this country. And when they did this themselves, when they came to this country, they kept their cultural traditions that were important to them, but they really did believe in assimilating. They did believe in reaching out to the local, the community and feeling. And they raised us as Americans even though I grew up in Saudi Arabia. The one identity my parents that are primary identity was to be an American. And so I had that confidence, um in me. And I do think also a great gift I received from my parents was traveling all over the world, just being a little girl and going into other culture. As you know, my son is now ten, and he brought me on his iPad the other day, um uh, this story about a tsunami in Asia, and and I was thinking, you know, when I was your age, I was walking the streets of Bangkok, I went to Jakarta, I went to Tokyo. It was this, you know, in some ways where a much more connected world, but in other ways we are, you know, so so separated and far apart. I think my parents exposing me to so many different cultures meant that when I walked in to both University George Washington University nine and then the White House in n I kind of had a confidence. I liked the fact that I was different. I had a different perspective. I knew I was different. I kind of liked it. Um, that's nice leaning into a hundred percent and leaned into it. I embraced it, and in some ways I still do. I'm just still in many ways often the only me in the room, the only person who has that kind of background and experience and cultural and language experience. And so I've never it's never been negative, except for when things got ugly, you know, during the kid Oh well, then people go for the low hanging insult. So I think it's great for us to be able to really show our children how to be confident and lean into whatever it is, you know, being just beautiful, being who you are. It's easier said than done, but by leading by example, you know, because your name alone is different, you know, and probably was as a child. So I just like that for the younger generation. But there are some things the point that you just made about my name, Like my little boy, his name is Jordan's and I picked that name aside from the name of significance I named after, you know, or he's named after the Jordan River. But one of the reasons I chose that name is that it's a simple name. I don't have to explain to people what it means. And I am that person who spent her entire life saying no h u m A. And it's like Uma Thurman, but with an age and you pronounced the age right. There are certain things I mean you actually pick you're picking up on something very uh I thought, very specific and right is that there are certain things that you you know, you do negotiate on, but other things that you know he I raised him to be proud of his faith and cultural traditions. But there there's some things we accommodate change on. Not yeah, and but it has the meaning. So it's still the meaning still there. Um. So you've managed many people and had to interface. You're constantly interfacing with different types of people, being very diplomatic, having to be that sort of hub switchboard connector. Um, what's your work? What is your work style? Your organizational style? You're getting things done style? What? What? What is that? Well, well, it's my book. I have a little booklet and I put a little square, empty square and with whatever the to do is, and that's my bible. That's how I get That's how I get things done. Because you often are juggling a million things at least I am and I have been for a long time, and so my lists. I live by my lists and staying completely organized. And I've also felt like as I've gotten older, I've gotten more O c D. Like just everything in my my apartment needs to be organized and my closet needs to be clean, and I can't function. It's the only way to get so much, like your condiments are organized and you you don't have a junk drawer. And it's in my book that says I don't have a junk drawer, like because I get your your produce drawer. I know, because I think it's probably because you've seen so much and had to organize so many things in your life professionally that it just you start to see it closer to home and with the pandemic, but in your desk in the order means you can get more things done. You're not like muddling through what's in front of you. And I also feel like so much of my life for many years I was out of my control. Just things were happening to me. Though that the things I can control and that I can organize. I never thought we would have so much in common that my childhood is why I'm so organized now because I was moving everywhere and had none of my pictures from my childhood. We just I just never knew where anything was and I couldn't control that. But and the same thing with work, that's amazing, Wow, that's wild. So what um your parents? What was what was work in your house? What was the What did the word work or career or money mean as a child? Like what what did what did you go into the world wanting to do or thinking that that meant? I think from my parents, you know, my from my far earliest memories, I had to work in my dad's office. Both my parents were academics. My mother was a sociology professor at a girls college and my father was a political scientist. And um and started a foundation and that produced an academic journal twice a year that researched the Muslim minority situation around the world. And so ever since I was six seven eight, we the work ethic in our house was such that it was you had to do the work and then you could play. So it was it was balanced, and it was a good balance. I would sharpen the pencils in my dad's office, or I typed up little index cards or help him with mailing. So there was a sense of purpose, a sense of doing something, and then we could still go out and play and do things. It's just like the way we ate, you know. Balance to me I was I could have ice cream, but I always had to have my fruits and vegetables first. And so my parents were always working. I felt as though even at dinner, after dinner, i'd walk into the kitchen, my mother would be grading papers, my dad would be writing or reading. It was a very academically centered thing. My parents traveled a lot for conferences, so I always wanted to do something I thought was contributing to something. I never thought very much about money. We were comfortable, middle class family. We were growing. We lived in Saudi Arabia, where you know the average You know, you could live well because so many of your expenses were paid for you because they wanted to have experts for an experts come at the time, the country was really just newly flushed for the oil money. So we had a good life. I never worried about money, which is very funny because I worry about money all the time now. Noise I call it money noise. I have it too. It's this constant concern that it's not gonna be enough. I'm not being able to make enough and how do I do it? And it's amazing because I did not grow up feeling and secure about money at all. And I don't know if it's a age thing, it's a cultural thing, if it's something you know that uh happens as we get older. But that's why when I saw Christian I'm on pour on my TV and you know, uh two, I thought I want to be her. She was out in the world. It was the middle of the first was the first Skulf four. She was reporting on the war in Rock and I thought, she's a truth teller, She's powerful, she's fearless. I want to be her. I had to see it, and I had to see it to understand I could be it. But do you feel like you have? I mean, you've achieved so much, but in a different package. Yes, And I still think I might want to become Christian I'm on poor. I mean, you know, I was gonna say, what do you want to be when you grow up? I was going to ask you is one of my questions. I say it all the time, Like what do I want to be when I grew up. I was, actually, that's so weird. I had that as a question. So I've never asked that to anybody. I was gonna ask you, of all people, because you're pretty grown up, what do you want to be when you grow up? No. I I was talking to my friend Mike just before I got on with you, and I said, I have to figure out. He's like, how's it going, And I said, I'm having the best time. I'm loving being on the book tour. I love the interviews. But guess what, I now have to figure out what I want to be when I grow up. Because I have found, and you've read the book, Bethany, that my entire professional life, somebody has offered me something and I have said yes in terms of a job. I have never asked for something. I have never been ambitious about something. And in fact, one of the stories that got cut from the book was actually maybe I did leave it in. There was being offered a position when I worked in the Obama administration, and they asked if I wanted uh to be considered for a position me or this other man. And we're sitting in the same room and I said, oh, no, you should hire him. The first thing I said was hire him, because I just assumed he was going to be better than me and smarter than me and more qualified than me. And he didn't get the job, and he was an amazing, huge job and he did do a great job. And I think now me at forty six, I have to shift the way I think and go out into the world and say I want this and I could do it really well, and I have to figure out what that is. I mean, this is my year of saying yes. I've stolen that from Shonda Rhymes, but saying yes also meet I have to ask, and I think that's something I've really only learned the last couple of weeks, Like this book tour has just blown my mind in terms of how intense it's been for my schedule. But I have to make that shift, and so I'm beginning to think through that and figuring out what it is I want to do. And it might be something in the media space, but I know it's not going to be, you know, public office. But I gotta do that. And you know it's not going to just come right because you got too off on the most incredible, magical, crazy track but you didn't go exactly to where you said you wanted to go, so maybe you'll end up there. Now. That's very interesting. It's at Maria Schweverer had said to me because it sounds like your childhood that her family what was expected of her was that you were going to have purpose like you would you would be contributing to the world. And I don't know that that many people talk in that way to their kids. Were also worried about our kids being emotionally, uh, you know, use your inside voice, and how are you feeling? And everybody needs to get in a medal and whatever, but we don't talk that much about like, no, you're you're here to contribute something to the world. No one ever told me that. No one ever told me that. It's just so I think that that's something that a lot of the people who have been on the show, who are very successful and kind have really had compelling lives, have had families that instilled that into them. You you're you know, some people have said use me, meaning how how can I be used of use? It sounds like you've definitely done that, but how to really contribute It's such a simple thing, absolutely, you know, I opened the book with a letter. I found that my dad had written this sort of diary page. I found it after he'd passed away. He died when I was seventeen, and I found it twenty years later. Twenty six years later, I found this letter and a bas sickly said, you know, let others say what they will or do what they will. You are responsible in the first instance, to yourself, your principles and values, and ultimately to your higher power, following whatever it is that makes you feel as though you were doing good purpose in the world. My parents showed us by example. They didn't often say you have to do this, you have to do that. All they said was we require you to be educated. What you do with that education is your choice, but it should be used, you know, you should be used for good. And when I walked into the White House, you know, I wasn't even a Democrat when I went to go work in the Clinton administration. It wasn't about that. It was feeling, to use the word you use, feeling purposeful, feeling like you were helping people, and it does something here And even now I find it very hard to explain to people that feeling of walking into a gymnasium during a campaign, into somebody's living room, into into a you know, a hospital when you're on a mission, and you know that if this mission is successful, you are carrying this person's hopes, dreams, fears, aspirations. That's your responsibility, and if your candidate wins or your mission wins, you can maybe help that person. There is nothing as good as that feeling. Yes, that's so true. It's funny because I learned something today. I want we all say I just want my kids to be happy, and I say to my dad, I want you to be happy, and we do. But I don't say I want you to be purposeful, probably because I'm so intentional about everything that I don't think about drilling that into her. And she's also eleven. But I just like that as a thread for us all to sort of think about, because that's a good just change, a little shift in the way we think about how we're messaging them because I tell her I wanted to help people, and we do charity and you don't know what it's like x because she hasn't seen all these people that live in peril. But that's just a nice way to to frame it. I want to know what it was like just every day working at the White House. Does it feel like every other workplace environment or is there a sense of pride? And does it feel elevated and more important every day? You know, workplace antics, water cooler conversation, does everybody just sort of you know, is the game just moving a little more quickly? And does it seem a little more elevated day to day? Working in the White House was nothing less than inspiring. I write in the book and detail about what it felt like walking up to those black wrought iron gates, walking down the driveway into these historic buildings, the White House, the residents, the White Building everyone's familiar with. But I worked in the old Executive office building now called the Eisenhower Building, which is this French Empire style, very large, grand structure that I described as looking very much like a wedding cake in an old wedding cake. Um. But it was nothing less than just thrilling, and you were grounded in that sense of history walking down those marble hallways, walking down that red carpet and up those steps, you know, bent by years of people walking up and down them, and this sort of hushed silence that you felt when you walked through the State floor and the residents. It felt almost otherworldly. It felt um in some ways sacred because it was a space that not a lot of people had an opportunity to live, work and operate in. So every day, you know, that was my first job, and so I had nothing really to compare it to. Um. It felt a lot more elevated than your average experience. And you saw it in the daily work. You saw it in the people coming in from around the world. You saw it in the press conferences and the ribbon cuttings and the signing ceremonies and the announcements that there was important work happening every day that affected not just our country and the people in it, but around the world. And because it was an administration so actively involved in both, you know, domestic policy and foreign policy, it wasn't overwhelming experience, and and and the number of pinch me moments I had I cannot even count. So it felt like a tremendous privilege to be, in some small way a representation, a representative of this administration as it tried to do the work. And there's nothing like it. I bet everybody remembers their very first job. So for me at one for this to be the experience, um, I couldn't even you know, write a better fictional story. It was really amazing. So how do you navigate all of these treacherous waters, like how it seems like has it all been worth it? All the craziness, like that you've been through the mud, all of it. I mean, it sounds like it's can't the good can't outweigh it by a mile. I mean, it sounds like it's been pretty brutal. And you also wanted to talk about it in this book. Did you when you finished did you forget anything? Did you say damn, I should have talked about that, or did you get it all out? And then in thinking about it, how did you do it? And was it worth it? It It was absolutely worth it? And for me writing it was therapy. And actually one of the things that I've learned since the book has been out is that you know, to process it is one thing, but I'm going to be working on myself and working on, you know, all the things I went through for the rest of my life. It's like a it's a it's a journey, it's not. But I'm glad to have closed that chapter of my life, you know, in terms of my marriage, which did fall apart on national TV. And in one of the reasons it was so hard because I was in this what I believed was a perfect relationship. I had a man who loved me. I thought I was living a fairy tale. I opened a chapter in my book about waking up a bucking and palace, you know, finding out you know, I knew I was pregnant. I was carrying the secret pregnancy. I was thirty six, he was forty seven. No one ever thought, you know, back then, at least they would say, and you're a You're never gonna get pregnant, You're you know, you're both old. And so we just had this gift. I mean, I cherished that year and a half of just, you know, absolute happiness that I had with him, and I would I can't even say that I regret being with him, because he gave me my son, He gave me the thing I live for now and um And if I did not believe that Hillary Clinton would not have been an incredible president, it would have been a little bit different. But the mission was worth it. The mission in two thousand and eight was worth it. To me, the mission in two thousand and sixteen is worth it to me, so I can't look back on any of it and say that I regretted it. I also want to know something that I'm sure so many people have thought about and asked and reflected on in their own relationships, and it is what what exactly if you could? It's probably not just one thing, but what made you stay and what made you for Unless you just stayed but you didn't forgive. So did you stay and then learn to forgive? Did you stay for other people and factors besides yourself, and you regret staying to choose to stay and to choose to forgive? For me, we're actually not the same thing and didn't happen at the same time. I've stayed after Anthony's first revelation, uh in large part because I was a newlywed. I loved my husband. I had made a commitment um to be in a relationship with him for the rest of my life. I was madly in love. I thought I was living a fairy tale, and I was carrying his child. I was not even twelve weeks pregnant when the story broke of his betrayal, and so I was, you know, just living in shock and anger, and and you know, slowly, over time a fair amount of bitterness and resentment towards him. But it it wasn't It was a choice I made, and with a choice I made was to stay UM. And the fiveness took a while, I have. The forgiveness came after a period of time where we went, we had to go into therapy, we had to work on our marriage. He had to show that UM, he had you know, learned something from his transgression and and frankly, it felt as though to meet it was two different people. The person I read about in the paper, I had heard about in the paper was not the person I was married to in my mind and my experience that I had, And I had a very hard time reconciling that over periods of time. It's just a very different, two different, you know people. And the forgiveness came over a long period of time. And then to truly forgive, we had to actually go through an even harder time in our marriage several times, two more times, and I had to learn that the marriage was not salvageable. We just couldn't survive as a married couple. And we had to go through this very painful process called a disc closure process, which we did and came out on the other side and are better for it. But it's work, and it's something you work on when you're in a relationship with somebody who you share a child with, whether you're married or not, you have to work on that relationship for the rest of your lives. And we will continue to do that. And some days are easier than others, some days are hard, some days are impossible, and some days are great. Um, But to forgive it was really a gift I gave myself because otherwise I was suffering with all of the anger and the bitterness and the resentment and the confusion. And I'm glad I did, and I'm glad I had helped getting there. Well, it's come to me in therapy and different people who have what I call quote unquote successful relationships. It doesn't mean they're perfect. It just means that if they've sustained and they have tools. Is that we don't work on the other person. We work on ourselves. So whoever your partner is and whatever you went through like, you can't quote unquote fixed another person. You can't work on the other person, you can just work on yourself. And it's funny because I guess it's it's so obvious to everyone and they're been documentaries, but I didn't really think about it until today, about what support you and Hillary must have been for each other, and what a mentor and advice and as women supporting men publicly for their own reasons. I mean, I said to her, like a whole however, many years they've been married isn't defined by headlines. But you know, just like every everybody's relationship isn't defined by Valentine's Day, it's define fined by a million stories that no one ever hears. I don't think your entire relationship is what we read about in the paper. So because my assistant, I said, I don't. I don't know if they're still together. I know they are good co parents about you, And she said, well, that that's good night. I like that that she supports you know, she supports him, meaning that you're It seems to me from the very little that I know, that you're a support system for your ex regardless of what you've been through, and you're working on yourself and you're hoping that he's working on himself doing your own journey. Well, you know, Bethany, that is something that I had to learn the hard way. I mean, at the beginning, when our marriage first fell apart, all I could think of was I have to fix it. I have to fix my family. And so for me it was, let's we went to therapy in Texas and then you know it had obviously it happened again and again with him. I didn't understand addiction. I didn't understand the mental health challenges. I mean, as somebody and you and I talked earlier about control, and I was somebody was so controlled my whole life. I could manage everything. And so for me, I thought, my god, we're doing the most important work in the world. You're doing this destroy deeply destructive, ridiculous, juvenile behavior. Just knock it off, just stop. And so I did think I could fix him. And if I could fix him, that fixed our marriage, and that fixed our relationship. It took me a few years to understand that I could not. And then meanwhile, here I was enduring suffering from PTSD, suffering from the betrayal that I mean, even now as I'm approaching new relationships, I realized that there is something that's very tender and vulnerable of like am I am I really ready to have my heartbroken again because it was shattered in a million pieces in front of the entire world. And that's the point I was making it. We're constantly, you know, working on ourselves, but we're you know, we're not together as a couple, but we will be cool parents forever. And I realized I share a story in the book about when he was away in prison and my son. You know, I was so angry. I had so much bitterness towards him for so long, for everything he lost because of his behavior, and realized that my son was actually suffering by not seeing his dad. And so for me, it's I mean, my my the father of my child, to be strong and healthy mentally and emotionally and physically so we can be a good dad, because ultimately it's all about the next generation in my opinion. I was talking about it recently with people um in divorces and custody struggles. Judge said to me, a custody battle is watching your child drowning on the end of the dock, swimming begging for help and you can't rescue them. Like and I almost cry. It's it's it's about then, it's whatever's best for them, and having a positive relationship with the other parents is what's best for them. It definess future relationships in every area. Um, so how much do you what percentage of anger do you still have? If any? Because they say holding onto anger is drinking poison and hoping the other person dies. So how much. The last chapter of my book is called suffering as optional, And it is because I do think I lived for many years a lot of anger and a lot of interests, particularly towards Anthony and generally at the world. And why is I did a lot of why is this happening? And why is this happening to me? And it was only when I realized that, And that's the you know, that's saying, which is whatever a lot of credit to a lot of people, including Roomy, that pain might be necessary, but suffering as optional that I had been in pain. I had suffered pain, but I was suffering. It was I was suffering, and it was only hurting me. It wasn't hurting any of the external exact it was actually slowly killing me. And I, you know, I had to get the lowest, lowest point you know I got. I had very frankly, just suicidal thoughts and uh. And as somebody who has faith and had family and you talked about my relationship with Hillary has a incredibly supportive group of female friendships. I will tell you even when I'm struggling now, I will always go back to those core places. I go to my faith, I go to my boss, I go to who is my mentor as well. But I go to my girlfriends also and realize that that's where um I got a lot of strength. But we had to go get professional help when I realized I started having very bad thoughts about doing something to myself. I needed help. I needed help getting out of this hole. I could not do it alone. It was brutal the process we went through. It was so hard. But what I learned, and this is what I get up every single day that I feel sorry for myself. We were in Paris over the weekend for work and I was having really rough time and and but I still get up every single day and think, if I have it bad, somebody has it worse. And for me, that is always what gets me to the other side. And I went through an almost ten year divorce process on a two year marriage and a custody battle. And I thought of it like golf, I'm at the first hole, I'm at the fourth, and then I went back to the second because I thought I was at the twelfth and I was really at the ninth. Like you know when you drag back, you thought you were out and you're on the way out and you were really only half. Okay, you've been there. Um. And that helped me, but also probably you know, you know, having a public voice, knowing that I would be able to eventually hopefully I didn't know I would survive thing and then have a story to tell, which is what you're doing in this book like that you at least it's not for you to just tell one girlfriend. You get to tell millions of people your story that on the other side and how to deal with it, um, And how when you're going through such personal pain that's not even all of it's not even rational, you know, you're having very negative, artful, harmful thoughts. How do you do that for people going through that with a son? How do you compartmentalize? How did you manage that? Because I've done that too, What was your coping mechanism? To compartmentalize, you're suffering, and then your son. I was lucky that I managed to show up for him. I mean, you know, and he was five at the time. So I think when you have an especially have a child who needs literally needs you to to be fed and to be bathed and all that, it was a number one. It was a great distraction from thinking I've always been very good at compartmentalizing. Um, I think it's how I made it through. I mean, even you know, when everything fell apart in my marriage, I was working at the stage department. So the idea of feeling sorry for myself and then going to you know, the Middle East or Asia and Africa working on these really important diplomatic missions, I immediately turned on the switch, saying, okay, I have to do my work. With Jordan, it was very similar. I would come home and just wrapping him in a hug just made me feel like that was therapy for me under yeah, needed it just And there were nights and I write about this, I would just crawl into his bed with him and just cuddle because I needed that for me and I got something. I get that so much. It's like feeding. It's so good it's so true. So, um, I spoke to Cheryl Sandberg here, who is the number two to Mark Zuckerberg, as you know, and she described the job description and yours is more of an evolution. But when she was talking to him about she said, I want to do everything you don't want to do. That's my job to do what you don't want to do. Not not like she has a terrible job, she's a pretty great job. But um, being the number two, I wonder what exactly, how do you describe what your job and your purpose is and was for Hillary? And do you ever feel like you're in the shadows and like you you have you know, not not for anyone's fault, but when you're constantly trying to support and take care of someone else, where does that leave you? Where's your own identity separate from hers? Well, the mental I mentally was in the shadows for a long time. I liked it. I was not, you know, I didn't. I didn't like being the center of attention. I share a story in the book that even on my wedding day when I walked, when I started walking down the aisle, I realized, oh my god, everyone's looking at me and I hated it. I actually did not like so and maybe that's just my genetic makeup. I was fine being in the shadows. But it's funny that you talk about Cheryl because I do think I had a very similar The role that I had and have with my boss is I often am a bad guy. I mean, people come with all kinds of crazy ideas we should do this, and we should launch this, and we've got this project, we should explore that, and I, you know, I I would say sometimes my office is often where dreams come to die. I'm the no person and it is that you need somebody, and especially when you're at that operating at that level, as you know, the job that Cheryl has are the job that you know Hillary has had over the years. You need that person who can be the bad guy, the person who's managing, Okay, how do we actually use our time, What is the way to help more people? What is the smart thing to do? And a lot of it's managing. A lot of it's just you know, as you said, I think we meant this earlier, is just the diplomacy and figuring out how to talk to people and deal with people and to be able to look forward, not to be so in the nitty gritty, but to think about the chess board, not checkers. Are you? Um? So you say are a workaholic, And I want to know what the definition of a workaholic is because I knee down time I take it. I stack and stack, so it's so crazy, so I then can take it. But then maybe it's two feast or famine. So I'm curious what your definition of workaholic is. So my dad always told me when I was growing up that a good life is a balanced life, but I did not follow that advice at all. I, in fact, you know, recounts so clearly being at a family wedding and getting a call from the White House saying do you want to go to Argentina for the first lady? And I left the wedding, I immediately said yes. Like I called that my fork in the road moment, where on the one hand, right in front of me was one path getting married, family, community, just having this wonderful weekend, and the other was jumping on a plane to Buenos Aires. I jumped on the while married. No, No, this is when I when I was a twenty two year old young staff person. Oh, because I was going to ask about that personality in a relationship. Well, let me that that had to Okay, let me tell you what I'm now realizing. One of the things about what was unique about my relationship with Anthony was that he had the same job that Hillary had and that he was a member of He got it, and that is hard. It's hard in relationships. It was hard when I was dating before I married Anthony. It's hard now when people are like, wait, you're going off to what where? What? You know? I'm sure you've you know, we can be intimidating women for uh, you know, somebody who's ask out or do something, you know, ask God on a date. And I get all that. But I chose going to work. And for me it was constantly. My days would start five six am and they would go till midnight. I never stopped. I would I would fall asleep responding to emails. I'd get up in the middle of the night responding to emails. I mean that is how I functioned. I didn't. I get it. Nobody functions like that anymore. By the way, It's not the Lord life balance and does it's not. I know, it's it's really a breed and you would love many of the people I speak to here Ian Traeger, He's like, it's in me, it's in my blood. It's twenty four a day. It's very It's like this is like a support group of people like us to understand each other. Because I get it. I've done it all from the bottom to the top. I fully get it. But I'm wondering as you get into the dating pool and date just because Anthony got it, doesn't mean that's good for a relationship. Just because you're both talking about the thing the whole time in the business, you could be sucking the life out of the relationship without even realizing it. There has to be a balance there, so so so true. I mean I did find that, you know that certain people it was hard. You know. I would be at events too late at nights, and I said, you want to just come to the dinner? Do you want to just come to the fundraiser? Do you want to just come to the cocktail party? And the first couple of times, the guys that always say sure, and then after a few times they say, why don't you call me when you're done? And we could yeah, like it's a and I would and I write about this in the book that my male colleagues never seemed to have this problem. Like the women who were their dates at the hot amorous parties in New York back in the nineties and the two thousand's, they loved being at these receptions, and I felt like it was a very guy girl thing. And maybe that's just me, but that was certainly my experience that it was. It was. It was much harder for me to date just you know, somebody who didn't understand um, understand that world. And I'm trying to figure it out. I have found balance, though, I mean now, and my millennial staff remind me of it all the time. I'll say, let's do a call on Saturday, and they'll say, we're not doing a call on Saturday. You know that's hilarious. Well, the guys, the guys who would want to be there, that's red flags because sometimes you I bet, don't you have to know, don't let everybody, don't give up any the keys to the kingdom until they've earned them, because you're gonna bring him into these events. These people you know, you know by their first names to them would be their millennium, you know what I mean, so you have to be careful because you don't want to give them the keys of the kingdom until they deserve that's a trust, well said, you know. Um, uh, so is there anything good about Hillary not winning? Has there anything been positive overall for both of you? For her, for the whole experience? Uh? In learning, it's such a about her not winning. You know. I get up every and it's not an exaggeration. Every day I think about how I believe the world would have been a better place if she had won. In um, I think the only good thing about her not winning is that she's been able to spend quality time with her family, in particularly her grandchildren, and she seems to really not scenes she revels in it. I mean, just to see the joy on her face when we were traveling, uh and one of her grandchildren or her daughter facetimes her. It's just lights up her life. And if she were president right now, she just would not have had that time and capacity to be doing all these things with them, to plant a garden with them, to go on these long walks and hikes and family vacations. So if you're asking me, which no one's asked me, by the way, the one thing that's it for her. And I say that for her, I think that is something that you know she's gotten. I still think, you know, she had so much to offer the world in the country. Um, but you know she she is a glass half full person. I'm often the glass half empty, but I'm trying to try to be better about it. Um. I would say, that's what it is. And what about for you? Um wow, working on yourself writing the book? Yeah, I think I think working on a Look. If she'd want I obviously would not have written the book. I wasn't sure what I was gonna do if she'd won. I had was sort of agnostic about going back to Washington, had been I'd worked in the White House, I'd sort of to some extent, been there, done that. I didn't know what my job. All these people who thought, oh my god, you must have been for yourself, your ambitions, it's like, actually, wasn't my ambition. I I did that for her. I did that campaign because she asked me to work on it. I didn't know what I would have done if she had won. Um, but I guess if it allowed me to become emotionally and mentally healthy, you're right, I don't. I don't know what I would have done. Maybe Anthony and I would have never you know, I don't know. It's such an I don't know what I maybe the book, Yes, the book, for sure. It's been good therapy. And and every time I get a message, you know, I'm not big on social media, but I've had to be on because of the book tour. And when I get messages from people, especially women, talking about what the story has done for them or you know, meant to them. I mean, I ran into a woman the other day. It just happens constantly where they just you know, either break down in tears or say I've gone through this, and when I read your story helps me get through mine, I thought, all right, that's a little service. Oh my god, you needed to go. You can't be half pregnant. Yes, you needed to go all the way to help other people, not just for the sake of being salacious and just to you know, but you sometimes you need to say something to to help somebody. You know, you really need to explain the story and how you feel in the truth. And uh, it's obviously easier with wisdom and hindsight, you know, and looking at looking behind you, Um, what do you can have? What percentage lucky? What percentage smart are you? I would say fifty fifty. I would say it's a combination of fate, luck, hard work. UM. I never believed I was the smart even when I started to the White House. I was not the smartest. I was not the prettiest. I was not any of this. However, I was prepared to outwork everybody, and that is one of the reasons I got um I and I was open to different things. Even now when I go to college campuses and young people say, how did you How did you know you're gonna be so successful? I didn't know. I know you didn't. I had no idea. What I did know was that I was prepared to put in the work. I was prepared to do the work, and I was prepared to try different things. I mean, I was at a university the other day and this young man says, I'm setting engineering, but I, you know, I really liked theater. I said, we'll take a theater class. You know, I didn't just do journalism. I did other things, and look where I ended up. And so I applied for a White House internship, even when I never thought I'd get it, and I got it. Yeah, but yes, but it's funny you say that. So people asking they think that you sort of or I knew we'd be successful, like what And you knew that you'd work hard, but you didn't know how much other people don't work hard, so you didn't know even then. So for people, listen, there are a lot of people that work really hard and are smart. There are a lot of people that don't work really hard, and there's so for the people that are willing to work hard, you have no shot if you're not willing to really go all the way in. So if deciding whether to have a business or not or go for it, you've got to know what you're made of and if you're going to, you know, go through pain, not suffering, but you really it's if you gotta it shows you what you're made of being successful. Well, look, you're you're a look of the inspiration you are to so many people. I mean, what you have done with your life and that is a good model for the rest of us. And you can't just expect things are going to happen to you, no way to not even help and get it. And even now you asked me earlier about what I want to do when I grew up. I've been wandering around for two months saying, this is an amazing opportunity, and I'm, you know, open to all kinds of okay, but now I gotta go and do something about it now, and they might not see you in that space. You're gonna have to recreate yourself. I walked into philanthropy a nobody that couldn't get flip flops. I swear and rain boots for Hurricane Harvey in Texas. Nothing And I was a nobody after I had been successful in other things. But what the hell are they gonna give me their money? In another world of philanthropy, I had to start from the beginning, and now it's like several hundred million dollars. It's crazy. So yeah, you got it just but that's the same thing as that marathon one ft in front. Do the best you can in the moment, do it to the best of your ability, or don't do it at all. What is your rose and your thorn of your career? I wrote a book called Businesses Personal. Your business is very personal too. They've been very unintentionally intertwined. I just thought about a lot of blend there. So what's your rose in your thorn of your career? Well, my rose and my thorn of my career, and I will start with the rose. And it's not talked about very often, but it really was that um January night in New Hampshire in two thousand and eight when Hillary Clinton won the New Hampshire primary after several days of people telling us it could not be done, and her being down on the polls, and she had lost Iowa to Barack Obama and everyone had expected her to win. And it was a time when and I would I argue that things have not changed very much, but it was very hard for women in politics and the sex of them, and the blatant people making comments like, oh, Hillary Clinton comes on TV. I want to involuntarily cross my legs and everyone would laugh. And you know, no one called out the comments. No one said, don't comment on her clothes or you know how she talks. But to have lost and then in there's three days and I remind people and I just tell the story in the book of you know that was the experience where men were holding up sign saying iron my shirt, iron my shirt. And we lived in this cauldron of negativity and everyone thinking that we were about the whole campaign was about to fall apart, and here was this one woman who made history for your daughter, for women girls in this country. And so I write about that moment looking at her and thinking wow, you know, and and the reason I mentioned it is because it's talked about so little. No one has done since then what she's done. That was a long time ago, Bethany. No one has, not a single woman has won a presidential primary or a caucus in this country. And it's two And what does that say to me? That was a wow? Was that a rose? That was your dude, you're my hero moment? That was a dude, you here, and that we've achieved something together, that this was worth it. And then obviously my thorn was the election night in sixteen and the comey letter and and that and the experience of having to carry that with me every day, feeling some sense of responsibility in her loss in And that's been very hard. Yeah, that the phrase the emails must make you like shut well, but not any more now I'm all in. It's like, bring it on, because I feel that when you then see what happened afterwards, when you then realize there was another investigation going on at the same time about the other side that was kept private. Then when you realize that we were you know, there's oh, there's nothing to see here, that it really was the story. You could just use the word emails, and that was the bad word, and it was an effective tool and it worked against her. Um even you know, when you have somebody every day saying multiple times a day, lock her up, lock her uplocker up, even if you're somebody who knows nothing. Yeah, it's in the middle. You know, maybe huh, maybe she did something. I don't know what, but you don't even know what you're talking exactly. It's just programming. It's so true. Do you um are you teflon now? Do you even care what people think anymore? You must have cared so much and you had to live it every day and pulls and you being part of it. And you don't like attention. You don't like a good or bad. You're at least one of these people that doesn't want to relish in the positive but then hate the negative. You don't want it either way. So you had it. But do you now just feel like, who gives a shit, like what they think. I've been through everything. I've been through the mud. Here we go. I'm teflon now, yes, yes, I don't you know even I've I've even found it at dinner parties. Uh in the well pre COVID obviously, um, but post and before, you know, even when I was a diplomat, and you know, people would say, oh, well, if only Hilary had done this, So only if you guys did this, if you do that, And I would say, very politely, like just sit and listen. And now I just go right at it and say, all right, let's unpack this. What's your argument why I have No, I don't care about the negative I I um, I think that my boss could wander around and say, I told you said a lot of people these days and she'd be right. Um, So it doesn't bother me at all. I think, you know, I think I still have a little bit of of trauma over my personal sort of you know, I'm trepidacious on the personal front a little bit. I meant that too, No, I meant in general. Yeah, I meant just like if you're written about do you care? Does it still hurt your feelings or you've been through the war at that, I thought I would imagine it's because I I not to that level. But I know what that feels like, and it's a good feeling. I know you don't care. The first time you read your name in print, you what do they? And then you just get who cares? Keep going? You know it's nothing, it's it's day ending and why So I was just wondering how that was with you. Yes, one of the things that is for a mental hell, I don't I don't read the tabloids. I just don't. You know, I'm not thankfully in the in the in them anymore. But although it was a regular occurrence, and and I would you know, I immediately tense up with me. I know, you get an email from a publicist and like, what someone's been through my purse? I have a keylo of cocaine and I've never done like You're just like, what's wrong with me? Something's in my trunk. There were always for the and the book at one point was called racing. I spelt so much in my life racing for what you know, white knuckling the whole thing. Yes, all right, so tell the listeners give the name of your book and just simply why you wrote it, which I think is clear already. But my memoirs called both and A Life in Many Worlds, And I wrote it because I wanted to share my story. I was tired of everyone else to the point we we were just having a conversation about people telling our truths, and I wanted to tell my own truth, reclaim my story. And and it's a It's been an amazing experience to be able to share with the world. And it's got everything from faith to family, to friendship, to love and heartbreak and how to make it in this world. And it's a coming of age story in a way that I'm so proud to be able to share with the readers. Well, I am so honored to have met you. I was such a great conversation. I'm so surprised at the commonalities that I'm a little you know, I just didn't think i'd have anything in common with you necessarily. I'm you're a strong woman, smart, But this is amazing. Wow, Thank you so much. I really appreciate the conversation. I feel exactly the same way. I've been such a fan and admirer of yours from Afar. I was thrilled to be asked to be on this podcast, and I would love to maybe have a chance to, you know, have another conversation with you sometimes I've loved We'll get together, have a great day, and good luck and congratulations, and I'm happy for you. That was whom I avidan. She's amazing, she was interesting. I love the conversation. She's telling us her story and her own words without just being judged by headlines. And you're just trying to trigger her and get her to say things that can be picked up in the press. It's just not what we do. I just told her, it's not a gotcha conversation. I just want to talk and hear who she is, because she's an interesting, fascinating person who's seen a lot, and I think you'll enjoy the conversation, regardless of your political views or mine. I have everyone on this show, and I don't care if someone is a Republican or a Democrat or who they work for. I care about what they have to say and what they've been through. So remember to rate, review, and subscribe, and have a wonderful day.

Just B with Bethenny Frankel

If you can’t handle the truth you can’t handle this podcast. Just B with Bethenny Frankel is the bes 
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