On facing your fears and realizing your potential
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Shows I forgot I was watching. I've been saying this for years. Someone's gonna make a billion dollars off of this idea of just and I know that when you get on your Netflix, it tells you what you've been watching, but if you're in another house and it's not set up on the same account, you don't know what you've been watching. If you're watching on cable and you're on demand, it'll tell you what you're watching, but you don't know what you're watching. On Hulu. Seventy five years ago, I was watching Madman and I just never knew where I left off, so I didn't know how to get jumped back in. It's like double Dutch. And honestly, even with all these different channels, like I don't I don't know. I text Paul these lists of shows that I want to watch, and I think they do have it on there where you could save something. I don't know if you say what you might want to watch. But I keep texting Paul, like these shows that I want to have in the queue, and I have to remind myself of, um, what the hell I was watching, Like I'll forget okay, oh god, Brina, and I were watching Manifest, right, okay, watching Revenge. We're watching Manifest. Um, what else we're watching? And then there was another Mom show we were watching. She'll remember, I gotta remember to write that down. The Mom show. There's like a bad Mom, so it wasn't bad Mom, so effort. Just remember that show that we were watching. But then and then with with myself, I was watching Nine Perfect Strangers. Loved it, by the way. Then I was watching Dope Sick, loved it. But then a couple of years ago, I watched The Fall and everyone told me that's a great thriller show. So I started. I forgot that I watched it. So I started watching it and I was like, wait a second, I saw this, and I'm like, what episode? Did I watch this up too? And did I watch the second? And the third season happened to be with The Sinner, The Killing, broad Church, All these shows started to sound the same. So I have no idea what the hell I did. And there needs to be one app that's separate that you just like put into it. I need a notebook you put into it what you started watching and where you were, because what if you do it on a play sane like on a plane I and then I went back in with mad Men. I'm you know what, I'm writing it down. I'm gonna go back to mad Men. So I have no idea what this TV has gotten so insane that I don't even know what's going on. I'm watching seven shows at the same time, and that's not my personality. I read one book at a time, like I can't be reading. I don't read a lot, but I can't be reading multiple books. So I want to finish the book. And what happens is now I'm watching American Rust also, which I really like. Now, um, I'm watching American Rust and Dope Sick and only up to the episode where it's aired. So that's how you get jammed up because you didn't watch the whole season. So you leave it. You're like, all right, we were done now, you know the Monica Lensky thing. We're done now, and then all of a sudden, a couple of weeks later, you're like, wait, I gotta go back in. I forgot they were not done yet. It happened with um Billions because Billions stopped shooting in the middle of the pandemic, so I forgot that. I hadn't finished. So I don't know someone's gonna do this. I think I have to all the head of Comcast or Ted Serrandos or whatever. But but someone Apple has to have the centralized TV assistant that's gonna help us know where the funk we are at all times. What do you think? Do you having this problem where you're gonna tell me this some dumb, dumb thing that I don't know about where everybody's doing it and I'm not. But nobody I know has anything that's doing that every day. And I was like, wait, I thought, Oh I forgot I was watching that. Oh I gotta go back to that. Oh yeah. Today my guest is comedian, actor, TV personality and game show host Howie Mandel. Fascinating man, amazing person. What an incredible conversation he shares with me how a friend's dare at a comedy show led him to his stand up career after struggling and dropping out of school. Comedy clubs gave him a sense of community and helped him find his passion. He's a person who always says yes, but the one time he said no, it changed his entire life and literally revitalized a career that he wasn't sure he wanted to continue. His career has been defined by taking big risks to get big rewards, including a wild story about the audition he almost didn't go on that led to the mega hit show Deal or No Deal. Howie Mandel has had an amazing career, but it's his definition of success that resonated with me most. I cannot wait for you to listen. So where did you Where did you grow up? I'm from Toronto, Canada, from the normal middle class um upbringing, nothing exciting, no show business, no real nothing that would Uh wasn't that interesting? And did you when you say middle class, like you didn't want or anything, but you definitely weren't rich, like you had to work for what you had. No, I you know, we had everything we wanted and I sadmitted cly. I grew up in an apartment. I shared a bedroom with my brother. Um we did you know? We would drive down the Florida every year. That was our big vacation. And um, I went to the pub. I was in public school. We didn't have I had no there were no frills, but I didn't we we never went hungry. I had whatever I wanted. I didn't know the difference. I didn't aspire to be anything more than what I had. I was. I had a happy childhood, got it. So what did you think about money, What did you care about success? What was the work ethic relationship in your house? Well, you know, the truth is that for for me, money was independent. So I started working really young just because it just gave me an opportunity. You know. It wasn't something I didn't come for money. And I realized that even if I wanted to buy gum more than my mom wanted to give me gum, I needed my own money. So at a leven I got my first job and I had a paper route. And in that paper route, we lived in apartment complex, so I ended up getting um all the building. You know. I grew up in Toronto, so there's winter, you know, and I didn't want to be out on a bike in the middle of winter delivering. So I got the I waited and got the route and bought the route um from I brought a little bit of money from my mom and and and and dad and and I uh, I got I delivered three papers, which is an incredible undertaking. But the truth is that I did it in apartment buildings, so you know these I would get up before school and then dumped the papers out in well not before school, but you know around I didn't attend that much school. But I uh, the hardest part of the paper route was collecting because he wouldn't make the money unless you collect. And I didn't make a lot of money. It was probably with all those papers. You know, I was probably making you know, five cents the paper or whatever. So you know, I don't know you do the mass, but there was a discipline to it in a system to figure out how how the whole program works. It's about the efficiency. Well I just had you know, if I had at that time, at eleven and twelve years old, if I had fifteen dollars in my pocket, that was a lot of money. And with fifteen dollars, I could uh take myself to a movie, I could go buy whatever garbage or pizza or whatever I wanted. I can And that's so I I learned really early that for me, you know, money gave me a little bit of freedom and independence. I was also and I've talked about this openly many times. You know, I had mental and still have mental health issues. And didn't realize that they were mental health issues. They were just the quirkiness and the whatever, the originality that made me myself. But it also precluded me from you know, being able to finish school. I I kind of enjoyed school, but I I I don't have a G E. D. And I was constantly being disciplined and admonished for my behavior, which not until in my forties was I diagnosed with so I couldn't. Yeah, well, I'm you know, I'm sixty six this year, and uh no, I just mean, if your kid was exhibiting any sort of resistant behavior in school, even public school, now, someone would find a way to diagnose it. So that's a big gap between but not in the fifties. No, I know. That's why I'm saying, it's crazy to think about. You know, it's really funny because they you know, not only mental health issues. I'm color blind and in in uh kindergarten. My mom tells a story about how she came to visit me when they in kindergarten and the teachers to put me behind the piano because they thought I was being um a bit of a troublemaker at five years old, because I kept They kept telling me how to paint. They had these watercolors and they wanted me to paint something. I don't remember what it was, but I would always used the wrong I couldn't identify colors, and they thought I was just trying to so they put me behind the piano. He did it again, told him to use the green paint, and he's using the brown paint or the red paint. And you won't, you know, Howard won't listen to us. So, you know, in those days, instead of saying, hey, maybe there's something up, like maybe he's not identifying colors. Everything that I did, whether it was the inability to sit down because I have a d H D or H so I would be um up in fidgety and H create a disturbance, you know, was kind of attributed to bad behavior rather than a mental health issue. Well, how have any of these How has any of this been an attribute? Like your creator, You're you're about expressing yourself and not being in a box. So you literally did not grate. I think the only attribute, listen, mental health is my I'm an advocate for and UH, and I believe that it's imperative to kind of I don't think there's anybody alive. You know, I've talked about being diagnosed with those c D and d h D, and I don't think that's you know, which doesn't make it easy for me to kind of uh send the message that I want, and that is that I believe that, you know, mental health should be taken care of like our dental health. You know, you will go. It's part of our curriculum, you know, dental health. As a as a mom, you you you take your child to the dentist, even if the kid isn't saying anything hurts. And you know, there used to be commercials where you say, look, mom, no cavities, Well how do you know? You you went and got X rays. But there's really nothing in place. There's more in place today, but there's nothing in place for people to identify and and figure this out. So it's not a good thing. If it is a gift, then I'd love to return it. But the point is that, um, if anything, UM, I don't have the capacity why I kind of do now, but I don't have the capacity to think of ramifications, So I would blurt things out or do things without thinking like oh my god, if I do this, this is gonna happen. So, you know, even my whole career, somebody said to me once I went to UH in the mid seventies. I went to a comedy club just as an audience member and with no aspiration to be in show business or comedy or make a living or being famous or anything. And the in Toronto and the m C had got up and said, you know, if anybody has aspires to do stand up comedy, and there's any amateur nights after midnight, you can do a five minute set if you want to, on on Monday. So if anybody wants, that's just there. And somebody at the table said how you should go up? And I said okay, and with no no thought and consistently I I say okay. Um I learned now I'm disciplined myself into you know not um my knee joke. Re action is to say yes. Controlling yourself is to say yes to everything. But I said yes, and there was no thought, there was no preparation, there was nothing. I just thought, if I if I had to look back on it now. The joke was that somebody was gonna say, ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel and and and there's no reason for how A Mandel to be on stage. There's no reason. I'm not a comedian. I didn't try to be a comedian. I didn't write any material. And if that was the joke, then that was the joke, just that I would appear so but I'll just tell you how that so, so I did it, and and they went, ladies and gentlemen, Howie Mandel, and I walked out and without any thought and and I was presented on stage. And then what happened was I had never been on stage before. The lights were blaring, and you know, the spotlight, I couldn't see anything. And the applause, the you know, the which you get for just being introduced. You don't have to be anything or do anything if you go. Ladies and gentlemen died down. And then I looked down and I could see in the in the front row that there was like a row of strangers just looking up at me, like okay, funny boy, what do you got? And and and I didn't have anything. And in that moment I got terrified, you know, just because it became humiliating, you know, because I had nothing. And I realized I didn't think I should have come up with a joke. I should have come up with an opening. I should have come up with an ending. I should have had a plan, I should have done my homework, and I didn't. And in that moment, in that terror, I started panicking in in public and I started going okay, okay, al right, okay. And if you look at my old YouTube videos, that was the the persona that I had then was it was I was, but it was just it was just terror. So I go okay, okay, all right, okay, okay, and they'd started giggling at my uh, nervous energy, and then they'd giggle and I'd go what what what? And that more, and you know, I was flailing with my hands because I was as nervous. But that became people started coping or you're the what guy? And then you know, I just put my hands in my pocket. And because I've always been a germophobe and and and O c D. I didn't know it at the time, but whenever I went out, I took rubber gloves because if I had to go to a public restroom, I wouldn't want to touch anything. And this is in the seventies and I just my hands were in my pocket when I pulled it out that the rubber glove was there. And I didn't know what to do. And I took the rubber glove and I pulled it over my head and to my nose. When I was breathing, the fingers were going up. The audience started laughing, and then I I didn't know what to do, and I grabbed the lubber glove and I inflated it with my nose and it popped and the audience roared, and I went good night, and I walked off, and Mark Breslin, who was the owner of the clubs yuck X in Toronto, said that was amazing. Come back tomorrow. And I go, why, what what do I do? And he said, do the same thing? And I go, what the fund did I do? I don't know what? And I started going back and and doing it and again, still without any aspiration of making it in show business. I finally found a place where there were near to wells by myself, like people who had UH for all intensive purposes, behavioral problems off. That's what it was. So and and if I went there, and I promise you even today if I was a custodian at a school and I had like one you know, I don't play, I don't gamble, I'm not I'm not good at sports. So I didn't have like a basketball game to get together, you know, once a week. I didn't have a poker game. In the seventies, disco was all the rage, Studio fifty four. I'm not a dancer. I don't go to clubs. I don't drink, so there was nothing for me. This is the only place. And I had been thrown out of school at this time. I don't have a g D. I was in high school. I had no place, So this is the place I went. You know, I got a free soft drink and French fries, and for twice a week I could show up and there was all these this land of misfit toys, and I did it. And then you know, I was always, you know, just looking to distract myself and stay busy. You know, I was working in a at the time, in the carpet business. I started a retail business, and when I was going on school, I got a job in a carpet warehouse. And then I met the guy and became friendly with the guy who sold the carpet to the carpet UH the supplier, and I said, like, how does this work? And he gave me. I talked to him to giving me some samples and then I went door to door and started selling carpet. And I and I made a deal with a finance company that you know, you could have this carpet this rug for you know, five dollars a month for fifteen years. And and they said if they have credit for five dollars a month, and I signed that and they'll supply me with the carpet. And I had my mom had a big car. I had her lend me the car so I could deliver the carpet. Eventually that turned into two locations and twelve salesman. So you're a business You are a business person for sure. I mean that's become clear by the paper route and this. But what the reason I asked earlier about has there been and you said, it's a gift. I'd like to give it back. The thing that you found in your whole life have propelled your success, your outlet, etcetera. Seems to have been a result of UH drawbacks that you were born with. Well, I would I would actually, uh, you know, shade. Whatever success that I've had in life, and what I've learned is that the most success that I've had in life are the things that I have said. Yes, do I believe from this perspective at this point, Um, you know we as thinking is not good. Well, it's not good for me, But I don't think think. I think that as a humanity. I think that we are built and created with this amazing instinct. And then what happens is, you know, everybody goes through life. There's sugar could have would have I agreed, or what that person says, or you think you're supposed to be doing. I agree, the gut is so great, but it gets cluttered by the mind and the heart and emotions and other people. I agree, right, And there's every reason if somebody it to me. Um, aside from the business of it, you know, do you want to go try to be a stand up comic? You know, as this kid in an apartment building with no connections. I mean, what are the chances of having any success? But this is what I'm getting to. That's your takeaway for these people. Because I had no idea what the liquor business. Oh, I didn't know that. So that's exactly what it is, what the liquor business was like, I created the first ever ready to drink low calorie cocktail. I didn't know that. I didn't know what I didn't know. So what you're saying is the same. We are so different in many and although we're very similar in many many ways. I am fastidious and obsessive and organizing, erotic and create, I don't want to say crazy, but very very I literally recognized myself and a lot of what you're saying which I wouldn't have realized. But the yes is the same thing, like go, like Nike said, it best, just do it, Just do it. So I that's what I live that's what I live by, and I tell people. You know, if anybody says, let's do this, or you have a thought of let's do this, that the normal. The norm for most people is that's a good idea. But but this could happen, This could happen, This could happen, and we talk ourselves out of it, and you end up leading yourself to know. And if you think of the word nothing, the first two letters are no, and out of no comes nothing. If you're like me, you're an idea hamster and you want to do all of it and excute all of it. But then you have a family and time and being present. So how do you control that? Because it seems like you get activated a lot as I do. So you're activated and you want to do it. How do you Because because I figure, because you know, just as you know, I always seem too. And it's not because I look for it, but time management is inherent in me in the sense that I always find the shortcut. You know, if I say I don't have the and and maybe this is my A D H D. I don't have the the capacity for minutia, you know, I I don't. You don't do weeds in no, no, no, how how can what is the what is the shortest distance from A to B? Even when you think about it, you know, even being a successful comedian, that the thing is that you know, I didn't sit and write material. And I'm not knocking the fact that you do your homework. Brilliant people like like Jerry Seinfeld and and other people that I know will sit for hours like a job and kind of work out what they're going to do. And I can't sit. I couldn't sit in school. I can't do it. So if I have an idea, you know, it's just I'm not really cluttered with all the negatives and all the details, your your lean and you're fishing it sounds that do you stack in your schedule like I'm there, so I'm gonna do this, this, this, this and and that's one. That's one. Well, that's one of the things that's helped you too. Being so obsessive means you're efficient and linear and like boom boom boom boom boom, get it done. You know. I also I also have a podcast, and yesterday I had robbed Dear Dick gun. I don't you should talk to him because this is this is a perfect You know, he's worth about four hundred million dollars now. He talks about he talks about how and and and we connected a lot in the same thing. You know, you you've probably know him from Ridiculousness, which is anytime you turn on MTV. They ordered five episodes. His TV career is a side hustle. He said, he's worked it out and he's writing a book about it. That's three per cent of his time. You would think that being the star of a TV show and be and being worth you know, at least renowned here in the United States. That would take up more time. And that's how I feel. How many different things can I get? First of all, I don't have the capacity to just be stationary in one project for any amount of fun. What I love about what I do, and I have been lucky enough to be afforded these opportunities that have allowed me to you know, whether I'm doing uh deal or no deal where we would tape you know, ten shows and one day so the season is over. I mean a g T is under twenty America's got talent is under twenty days of work for the entire year. That's what shark tech. It's not a part of nine pot of six. I get you producing a movie to you must be like four years from now, the thing's coming out like that. I used to like get the cameras and then like it's already being produced and edited. I really do get that. Well, you know that that's the truth. You know, when when I got launched, you know, in the public eye in the eight that started doing HBO specials, and then I went over to st Elsewhere, which was good for me because St. Elsewhere was an ensemble show with twelve people, so I only had three days a week. But when when that started launching in the early eighties, I started getting offered movies, and I started doing movies in the early eighties, and I did about ten movies and then I said to my wife, I can't, I can't. I don't want to do this anymore. The TEDI it's tedious this shot, this shot from the other angle, the shop from the other angle. It's tedious for you, I would imagine, you know they do. If they're they're you're lucky. If you do two pages of work a day, I get it. There's nothing for me. There was nothing creative about it. Was the writers and the director's medium. You know. It was just so slow, and I didn't have any control over it. And I just said, I don't want to. I don't want to go away for three months and live in a place that I wouldn't want to live in, and and be away from my family and my kids. I just like to live my life. To take away for this audience with what you're saying is as being a kid trapped in classes being told everything's wrong with you. When all you want to do is bust out. You know, people have to find what works for them. Like, don't try to suppress who you think you love, are connected to, or what you think you love doing. It's not it's not you, it's them. Like you found your If if someone just jammed you into making movies, you'd be very you'd be a failure overall. I don't mean that. I just mean if you started out no, but you know that. The truth is I have no You know, I didn't have an aspiration to be a comedian. I didn't have an aspiration to be a movie starter. You know, maybe if I were to stay, I ended up turning down movies that went on too huge success. I have no regrets about that because for me, success, I'll tell you in my definition of success is contentment. And when I found success was April nine, nineteen seventy seven, is the day that I got up on stage and did that stand up comedy. You know, I know that date because that's being true to who you are. That's interesting to me. That's being true to who you are and to to your your mental issues that you've had. So that's what that's what I find to be interesting, like it's it has given you. If the thing that you love the most and that was your success, then that's the thing that you were born that way. I mean you weren't if you had been in that box. What is success? It's success, notoriety, success, money. What is success? Feeling inside? Like you're fulfilled? Just what you said, contentment. So you found something that fed you who you really are? Like that? You you just something. You know these people and I say, these people in the world don't like what they're doing each and every day. You know. In fact, it's become synonymous with even in advertising they talk about hump day. You know, hump day is Wednesday, when when you're halfway through the to the of the week so you can get to the weekend, so you don't have to do the ship that you're doing that just pays the rent. So the point is, I don't like that. So that's life, especially now from this perspective at sixty six years old, you just spend most of your life. You hate going to school, you hate going to work. You're just trying to pay the rent. You're just then I always say, you've got to find one thing in like, it's not the thing that may make you the living one thing and like that you're passionate about. I would imagine that when you came up with the Skinny Girl drink, it was just like you wanted something that's enjoyable, that you wanted to drink, that would you didn't have to worry about you're putting on weight. You just it's for you, that's what you wanted, not because you thought that's what every It just turns out there's a lot of people like you that want the same thing. But but but the point is that I just wanted to find something. I was excited when I started Yuck Yucks every time that I would call in on on Sundays to go get time spots on the stage. I couldn't and he said, I can go on Tuesday night, and I can go on Thursday night. All I thought about in my other work was Tuesday night. I can't wait for Tuesday night. One more day for Tuesday night and then Thursday night. That kind of excitement, that's this for me, that's this right now for me, Like, that's this for me. Your friend has said three percent of the TV show, I'm doing this. I've just gotten another podcast and there'll be a third like I'm I'm loving this because I'm getting to talk to you and you're feeding me and we're connecting. And I didn't know anything about you, and I read about you and I don't read about people, but I do because I want to connect. So that's this for me, well even for me, you know, even my I do a podcast now, I do a podcast with my daughter. And originally I was approached by a company that said, let's do the let's do a podcast. And you know, I've only done We've only been on for a few months. And in the second month I left that company because I said, listen, I don't want you know, there are certain I need to do it. I need to sit in a room with my daughter and my friends. I have no um at this point, I have no sponsors. I don't want any You want to just express yourself and I don't want to be behoven to anybody or anything. And I've at a point, right I got you. I get you, I really get you. Passion is the key finding something you're passionate about, and it doesn't mean one thing, many thing, And at this point in my life, you know, time management is even more uh, prevalent because when you're in your sixties, you know, yeah, you want to do things that you're passionate about during that time. Yeah, so comedy now, I want to really talk about comedy. So you said, that's when you're true to yourself, that's when you're alive. Are you? Is it just because there's all this pent up and it's so nice to express because that's the only thing I miss about train Wrecked television was me being able to be the Greek course and and and the comedy of it. Or is it that you really are just connecting and feeding off this audience. Is it what you're giving what isn't? No, it's more about it's more about being a panacea to for survival. I uh in that. My best analogy of that is, you know, I stand up comedy in front of a live audience in the moment is the equivalent for me? I I during COVID I'm not doing it. But even at this age, I still love thrill rides and I love roller coasters, and you know whatever, you scare the ship out of me. Nothing keeps me in the moment. And because of all my mental health issues and and you don't have to have my mental health issues. You know that we are trained um to um worry about what's happening next and constantly considering what happened before. And very few of us live in the now. And there is nothing cleaner and clearer than living in the now, especially when you have something like I have O C D. O C D is the fear if I shake your hand, I'm going to be sick. I'm not sick now, I'm going to be sick. And last year I had the flu and I don't want to get that again. When I'm on stage in that moment like I was, you know, April nineteen seventy seven, when that fear struck. That same fear as like going over that first hill in the in the on the roller coaster. You know, in the moment, I was just grasping and pulling things, and I can't think of anything outside of this moment, and any time you could as a human being living in the moment. That is the most pure essence of who you are, what you do, how you can be productive. But but yes, but the only reason you're scared is because of them. If you were standing alone in the room, you wouldn't be scared. So you're scared because what if they don't laugh? Like that's the definition of success in that moment. I later, I'll tell you if we have time. I did stand up comedy one time. I decided, and ten days later I went to the store, the comedy store in New York City. Um, during the pandemic, the first date comedy clubs opened up again. I didn't consider the fact that there would be people sitting six ft apart with masks on, and like, that's not that the pandemic isn't that funny? Um, But I did it. And I talked to Chris Rock and Ellen and Kathy Griffin in a bunch of different comedity Kevin Nealon to learn about the craft of it right, and UM, I was together as much as I could be with ten days to prepare, meaning the day before I started to prepare what I was going to say, I'm like you, I am not going to do this for six months, Like it just went up. But I felt good because I felt organized, like you, Like I felt organized in my mind, like just some general idea of what I was going to do. I I didn't have anything really written down, but I just had to so that felt comfortable. Even if they didn't laugh, I would have felt okay because I went out and I played my best game. But but that wasn't a roller coaster. So I'm interested in you for you. It's so like So I don't want to be prepared. I want to be comfortable. I'm incredibly comfortable with discomfort because discomfort is what keeps me in the moment. Discomfort doesn't allow my you know, I'm comfortable lying in my bed at night with no responsibilities. It's the word. It's a nightmare for me. Oh well, I wasn't that comfortable. I mean believe I was walking up to do it. But I get what you're saying. You really walk in and you stand up and you have no idea what you're going to talk about whatsoever. No, no, no, I do now. Listen, I've been in it for forty years, and I you know, obviously a plethora of material, But the best moments and the best nights for me are when you can take me off that beaten path. So if I go out now, and obviously there's people who have expectations of what they're going to see, especially if it's my own concerts, in my own shows, but if there is a technical problem or something happens in the room or something, those are the joy those are and I don't mind even in the moment tanking and then spend my my life just trying to dig myself out of my little hole. Those are the moments that are that seemed to be the most productive for me. I like that kind of Kevin Nelon said to me, because I said, how does I was asking, and I found it fascinating the different style, like each person as their own style. I didn't never thought of that, Like somebody could be super quirky or you know, Richard Lewis and like or um mine was like ranting minds, like something I'm aggravated about. I didn't know that someone told me that because I didn't know anything about this. I love the craft of what you do, Like there's such an interesting respect for this craft. Well, comedy only works, and I think most things work, even business with authenticity. You know, if you're going to act like something, then I think that the public can see through that. So you know, just being yourself, but that's how you can fail. I didn't get how. I didn't get how Jerry Seifel could ever tank and you just said you could tank, And Kevin neal AND's like, it's just when you're taking chances is when you could tank. Like if you're not taking risk, you could be funny, but you're not taking risks. So it's sort of what you're describing. But for me, you know, I have no problem saying to the audience, you know, I just won't fucking blank or or or something happened in the moment and then you get out of that moment. You know. I told a story in my book. I was playing um Radio City Music Hall and and the audience was roaring. So there was one guy. There's seven thousand people in the room, and there's one guy that's not making any kind of contact with me. He looks kind of often at distance, he's not and he's in the front row. And you know, when you get on a roll, it's kind of magic because you you kind of have to work less. It's like pressing the gas and then you can coast for a couple of minutes. Yeah, so everybody's everybody's going in this. The room is electric. But for whatever reason, that one negative Twitter comment or whatever, I'm looking at the guy and I in the moment, because I didn't think like why would you stop the rhythm? Why would you do? But in the moment, I just said, Hey, it's one fucking guy, the guy in the blue sweater. What is it with you? You don't look at me, You're not responding like everybody else. What have I done? What have I done? And the lady beside him when he's blind, and I and I and I, without even thinking, I responded like the whole room didn't hear that. But I said he's blind, and you could hear the air going at the room, you know, and not like, oh my god, and my heart into my stomach, and it was silent. I went from the fucking top of the roller coaster to the bottom and totally this derailed. And I was just standing there in the moment, and I could feel the sweat from within just coming out. You could see the sheen on my face in front of the whole audience. Go. But in that moment, and and then just in that moment, I'm just digging and digging and digging. And then I just said what I thought and and it came out without any thought. I went, can I ask one more question? I'd probably room comedy for the night. But let me let me just ask one question. The man is blind, Why the funk would you spend money on front row tickets? You could put him in the balcony. This is a risk. But they roared, they ended up roaring, and I got them back. Oh my god. But that's that's what Kevin Nilans was talking about. You took the sickest risk ever though. That's my point, like that's the that's a risk. In the moment, it wasn't a risk. It just was real, you know what I mean. That was my real question. That's where I went, well, that's the true thing. But that's fearlessness. Because when I was doing the prep before I got really controlled in that syndicated talk show, I was doing the one that you came on, and it was produced by Ellen and it was like it was did very well in all these different places. It was good. And the EP said to me, if you think it's saying, if you feel it now maybe sometimes if I think it, I'm going to write it in my book. I might think about it if I'm saying something I'm gonna be canceled for because but but if you think it's say it, but that's a crazy, crazy story. I know I had not heard that story, but that's sort of But that's back to what you were saying at the beginning of Nike says, just do it, you know, and then and then deal with the ramis ramifications, Like even if you're in a show edited, you know, as a comedian. That's a lot scarier now because a lot of my friends have been canceled or lost big accounts. And but I kind of just do that. Like even in investing, you know what I mean, if something just looks good, I boom. You know, you may If you have five investments, three can go sell. Two could end up just being, you know, tenfold what the other three would have been if they were. It's that unadulterated thought that you you you need and I really do get that. What part of you is is good at business? Is an entrepreneur? Is a brander? Or are you just living what you're doing and you have good people around you helping you know? I have, Uh, First of all, I don't have a big team, and I have an entrepreneurial spirit, which is probably equal to whatever my creative spirit is. I've been very um active for as long as I've been in in show business, and you know, my fear was, I've been aware of money. I've always been aware of money. From eleven years old I had that was my fifteen dollars that i've So it scared me when I started making money in this business. Um to not have you And also it's not you don't I'm lucky now, I've got a career that's going along. But you know, I didn't know that I would make any money next week. Every job feels like your last job. You know, I can, I can do a g T and maybe they don't call me back next year and whatever money is coming in. So I was very concerned about, you know, being able to I've been married for forty two years, I have three kids, I have two grandchildren. I I felt responsible for not only taking care of myself but my family. So you had money noise. I call that money noise. It's just not a calm space for you. Maybe it is now, but for a time when you first or successful, you don't know if you can buy a pair of seekers you are you actually don't understand even though it's irrational. No, but the first time I've talked about this, I got the first time just from comedy. When I got like in the bank at that time in the in the eighties, I got a c D, a term deposit, you know, that was paying off twelve cent and you had to lock it in for ten years. So now I had two hundred dollars in the bank and I've taken five thousand dollars and locked it away for twelve years. But that's what But that was worth the seven thousand dollars that was throwing off your guarantee for the next It makes you feel safe, That's that's right. And also any time I ever invested, it was what you know, I realized that, I say this now, everything everything we do in business is fourth grade maths. After fourth grade, as long as you can add and subtract, you know, the biggest investments I've done just made sense to me. You know when when um, when Vegas was the biggest, you know, I started getting jobs, and so what happened was people were saying that, you know, Vegas was the biggest growing city in the world. You know, at the time I was playing Vegas, and they was saying, like it was really hard to even get a plumber in l A or a tile guy or even there because everything you know, Steve Winden was building the mirage and they were building all this. So, you know, because I used to be in the carpet business, my buddy and I we ended up buying this is a good business. We ended up buying for nothing all the dirt around the airport and we built these, um we called them commercial conducts, but we built these these little warehouses where I said, if you're a tile guy or you're a plumber, you're looking. I saw that they were storing. My friend was that guy was doing property management, and they had all these warehouses and they were being rented out to all the different trades. And I said, well, why don't we just sell them those with the way to sell them, just to say instead of the rent you're paying your mortgage, that's a rite off. You can be here for much less money and you have an asset. He said, that's a good idea. These a little tilt ups cost nothing. So we bought all the land around the airport. And I couldn't build them faster than I could sell them. And then when I was in Vegas, I like KB homes and all these UH home people. I was reading about they were doing. There was lineups for people auctioning the homes right they were selling. All people were retiring there, and they would build. They would go out into the desert and they'd line up a track of homes with two thousand homes that were gonna build, and all these people were buying homes. And I said, well, if all these people are buying homes, because I would drive out just as I was fascinated. I didn't want a home there. I didn't want to buy one of these homes, but I would drive out. I would say, how do these people like, they're all gonna live here? Where are they gonna like? I got an idea, So I would buy an acre of dirt leading into the communities, and when the communities were built up, I would build a little strip mall with a car wash and UH and uh and and a gas station because I knew that all these people who weren't going to work or have to drive somewhere, this is the place that they would get gas. And I built those on every corner and I ended up selling, But it just made sense to me. It was like when I was a kid and I was playing the knop so and I've done that more than more than show business. But it's not something I I promote. It's just fun for me. I'm playing real live monopoly. Well, what has been your greatest business success? I don't mean what you get what you love the most? Is what has been your greatest financial business project? Probably those you know I ended up selling. We ended up having, you know, eight little strip malls and gas stations, and I sold all of them. Interesting, So it's never it's often not. Stacy's Peter Chips was not the sandwiches that they the sandwich business that they were set out to build. It ended up being the leftoverbread they needed to have. So they never ran out of sandwiches and they made Peter out of that, and that's what she ended up selling for hundreds and hundreds of millions dollars twenty years ago. It's always amazing. It's never going to be in the form that you think it's going to take. Well, but that's again to be open to, like you got to see it, just do it. That's why I said, exactly, what do you think is funny? Like what do you laugh at as a comedian? Anything real? You know a lot of people one of the reasons I do I'm known for pranks and doing hidden camera stuff is because, um, I've told this story a lot, but my my parents were really in the comedy and on any given night, that Tonight show was on in the other room, and I would hear them both like laughing hysterically. My dad would bring home an album, comedy album, and they played and they laugh hysterically. I was maybe four or five years old, and when I heard the laughter, that was kind of like a magnetic drive. Go into the living room and I'd see what was on the TV and there'd be a stand up comic, you know, talking about his mother in law and that, and I didn't and my parents were laughing, and I don't know what the mother in law was. I don't even know what that term is at four years old, but I wanted to be part of the laughter. And my first recollection of being part of the left there was on a Sunday night there was a show called Candid Camera, which was the first hidden camera show, and I was sitting there watching it with my parents and Alan Fund, who was the host, was this nice old man who came out and explained to us that, um, what he's to do is he's gonna pretend that he's the boss of an office. He's gonna hire these women to be receptionists. Uh, they don't know that they're on a TV show. And the one instruction to his one instruction to them is going to be you must answer every single phone call, don't miss one phone call, and take a message. And at the same time, he showed us that he tied a rope to the leg of the desk, which was drilled through a hole in the wall. And what was gonna happen was every time he'd leave the office, but when the phone would ring and she went to reach for the phone, somebody would pull the rope and the whole desk in the phone would just slide across the room and she missed when each places. So you just giggled without even seeing it. And I remember my parents laughed and I turned to them, I understand, I understand what he was doing. And this was like the biggest, the first connection. It was like a guttural laugh. We were all in on it. He pulled us in on it. It wasn't a joke. It was like so relatable, like, oh my god, if I was in an office and the desk flew away. I'd be so fucking scared. It was like being at a surprise party when they go she's coming up the driveway, she's coming up the driver, just this guttural feeling. And then the first time when the first woman sat down and that phone rang and she went to reach board and it went across the room, I had such a visceral, guttural laugh, like almost a scream. All three of us, my parents and me, just laughed. And from that day on, I continually tried to recapture that feeling. And the feeling is, you know, I don't like jokes. I don't like if you say, here's something really funny. First of all, I should be the judge of whether I think it's funny. You shouldn't tell me it's really funny. But number two, when you tell me two guys walked into a bar, uh, they didn't, you know, So I can't. I can't really imagine you're just making up a story. But when you when you show me somebody that I can relate to that is in an uncomfortable, awkward situation, saying, by the way, exactly so I'm so literal. You're a very little. I'm the same exactly. I don't love sci fi because it wouldn't really happen like in my life, Like I don't see Martians or people in a spaceship. I like, that's so funny. I like the same thing. I like things that are real, true, things that could actually happen. And so people say it's mean to do, but I don't think it's mean. I think we're all. You know, we all, whether you're as neurotic as I am. You know, everybody talks about that dream where you show up at a party and you're in your underwear. You know, ultimately it's like, we feel we don't belong, we feel we don't and and anytime you can replicate that or control that feeling, and then you know, pull back the curtain and go, don't don't be uncomfortable. It's just the joke. It's us and that and then you see the relief and everything. There's something really nice and you know, and and and there's some closure to it, and that's something very human. And that's what I relate to the most. Well. Making people laugh is amazing, and laughing is amazing, But the best is when it all happens at the same time when you make someone laugh and then you're laughing because you know it's so funny that, like, that's got to be a high. Do what what has been? What's been your rose and your thorn of this career? The high and the low, like just like the thing that was amazing and maybe that date in nineteen seventy nine or something else, and when no one knows about and the low the lows are, the lows are really really um I love living in the moment and I love doing it for myself, you know, In in nineteen in in in two thousand and five, I was about to leave the career, and I wanted to leave the career because it's just a fucking kick in the nuts. Every day I liked, I liked, and and I'm sincere when I say this. I love that feeling that I got in April, you know, in nineteen seventy seven, April nineteen nine seventy seven, of not worrying about ratings, not being competitive, just doing something I love that made me feel good. It really made me feel good. And and the what happens is with more success comes more responsibility and and and more outside um powers. That kind of whether they review you, whether they cancel you, whether they tell you, whether you have to now have a team. Like you said when you were doing it with Ellen, it was good, and then maybe you've got I did a talk show. It was one of the toughest things I ever did, in the sense that it's what I wanted to do. And then they told me that I had to hire an executive producer because I didn't understand daytime. I had done so good filling in for Regius, they hired me, and then they I had a friend that I wanted to produce the show another person produce, and I listened you know that as soon as well, that's a whole different Ki, that's a that's a that's literally being in a factory. And let me come back and up next and back at nine. You're like in corporate America on television, you know, and you can't be yourself. Well, there's these you know. The authenticity of who you are, which got you to that point is now taken over. Everybody's got a responsibility to create your authenticity, which is the exact opposite of authenticity. And that's why I still always go back to go back to stand up because I'm in control. There's no editing, there's no marks to hit, there's nothing to throw. To reality television in the right way at the right time, produced by the right people feels like that too. It's gotten manufactured now where they're actors, But it used to be where you were just not wearing makeup and you look like I do right now, just living your life. And it really had a sense of comedy to it because it was just being honest and reacting. And is nothing appropriate about it or that has to be it could be, but it was really pure when it was pure. And I just talked about that recently because people begged me to go back to this reality show, and I said, if I could get it back to what it was in April nine, when you felt where it was just purity, I would do what. I U still laugh so hard and love just commenting, but it being something about hair, makeup, lashes, editing and getting pressed is not my cup of tea. So I get what you're saying, is that, Well, that's the ironic part. It's not reality or else, not really pity show. And when I was gonna leave and when I was discouraged and I was okay, financially, you know, in in two thousand and five, you know, as we talked about I had real estate and things like that. I just said, you know, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna do whatever I do behind the scenes, and I will drop into the comedy store at the last factory to three times a week and that will suffice I don't want to work anything. And then I got a call from Ropenberg, from Michael Rodenberg, who is my manager and my best friend, to say, you know, NBC wants you to do a game show. They say that you're perfect for it, and I went, are you fucking nuts? And I hung up the phone because at that time, if you take your self back to see this is the one time where I didn't use my philosophy and it's kind of a good story. He uh, nobody, nobody in comedy had ever done game show, not since Drugtcha Marx did you bet your life? And when your currency is? And now it's all we think about. But that was like a new concept. That's interesting. You were host You were hosting, right, And also because you know at that time, you know, if you're a movie star, you didn't do TV if you were a TV star, you didn't do commercials. Really, when I started reality TV, they would never have an actress on real it's just re reality. Your person, you're not you don't have paparazzi phone, you're nobody. You're just being covered. So it's funny. And then all of a sudden, now it's all actresses. So you're talking about a different time too. I didn't remember that. Yeah, it used to be host host host. Yeah. So so so I said, no way, and I said, listen, my career is in the toilet right now. I went from playing like Arenas and you know, fifteen thousand people and ten thousand people. At two thousand and five, I was there's an ark to every business. I was playing clubs that were half full. I had done a series Saying Elsewhere, which launched Denzel Washington and myself, and now I was in m auditioning for five lines and under. So I just, you know, I don't need this. This is a lot of pressure and a lot of you know, angst for nothing. So I'm not enjoying it. I'll just go to the club a couple of times a week and I'll continue in my real estate. So, um, and Michael called and I thought it was a joke. He calls back. He goes, listen, they've never done something like this before. Apparently there's a show that is huge all over the world. NBC says, you're perfect for this, and they're gonna air it. They've never done this. They're gonna give you five primetime hours in one week, Monday to Friday. And I said, Michael, even more of a I thought being a game show host is gonna put the nail in the coffin of my career. But five nights a week now, you put in five fucking nails. No, he calls me back one more time. He goes, they say that you're the only person that can do this. Will you at least meet so so so he he um. I said, you know what, this sounds horrible. I'm at Jerry's Delhi in the valley, uh, having some soup. If the guy wants to join me, I'm not going to any meetings. But if the guy wants to join me from soup all here, I don't want to get in my car. I don't want to even spend gas money on going for this. He goes, He'll be there in a half an hour, this guy Rob Smith, who was from a company called End Them All shows up. He shows up at the at the restaurant. He moves my super side. He goes, look at this, just look at this. And he had made a card. He didn't even go to Kinko's. He made it. He didn't have rulers or anything. He cut out twenty six little squares by hand. He which, I have all these papers and all this ship on my wall in my office, and it's it's it's really you go, this is the beginning of what dealer? No deal kind But anyway, he goes, pick one of the don't look at it, but pick one of these squares you're looking for the one with a million dollars. And we sit at the table and he goes, you think you got the million dollars? I don't know. He goes, well, open open another, turn over another five of these and he shows me the game without any and it's nothing. It's nothing. There's no fucking game. I said, five hours, there's just people opening cases, like where is the game? And he goes, well, that's the game. So I go home and I also I suffered from depression and anxiety and I went home and my wife said, what did you What did you think of it? I said, I think, and I swear to you, I think I'm unpunked. I think somebody just showed me a it's not a game and Michael's in on it, and I think this is like it's it's the sign feld of game shows, which is not really a great model. Nothing happens about nothing, right. So so then she goes, you know what, you're really depressed. Maybe it's not pun you really just need to distract yourself. Say yes, and I go, do you think? So this is the first time I didn't react with it. Yes, the very first time in my life on anything. She said, do it. My wife's a lot smarter than I am. So I called back and I said, I'll do it. And this is like on a Friday, and the guy said, oh my god, you are so perfect for this. We couldn't have thought of anybody better than you. You you We are so excited. And I said, when does the tape and they said Monday. I go to Friday. They go Monday. I go, don't you have to build a set? They go, it's built. I go, well, you said, there's twenty six models. Don't you have to hire people two months they're all there. So I realized how far down the list was. I how many fucking people had said no, That's why they couldn't do about me. I was the last one on the line. I was the last anyway, And then I got really scared. And then I called him back on the Friday night, calling was decent money? It was, It was okay, but it wasn't. That deal wasn't made for money. That deal was really get my wife to get me out of the house. But but so my So I called them back and I said, uh, you know what, I don't know what I'm doing here, but can I have a budget for a couple of comedy writers? So at least this is like Friday, I'm Monday, I'm gonna be on NBC. I got nothing, and from what he showed me at Jerry's Deli, there is not I can't just spend an hour going open the case deal or no, open the case deal or no, that's not a show. I'm embarrassed with else that I've taken this job and now you're giving me nothing. So they said, okay, hired comedy writers. So they gave me some writers and I sat all weekend and we wrote some really funny, good stuff. I said, if nothing else, this show is a piece of ship. But at least I'm gonna be on network television. Maybe I've decided to leave this career, but maybe I'll invigorate. Maybe I'll be able to fill club or or something. And then what happened was and all this comedy. Monday morning, I show up at the show and and um, I did five hundred episodes, but I remember this like it is now. Clearly. They go, ladies and gentlemen, welcome, Howie Mandel and I walk out in the audience is roaring, and it's in three sixty degrees. There's twelve cameras, and I introduced the very first contestant. Her name is Karen Van and I say, Karen, tell me about yourself. And Karen is this nice young lady who says, I have three boys. And she points to these young men and these kids in the audience. They're really there, and I'm looking at them. She goes, I've never owned a home, we have no health in arrants. I lived someplace in the Midwest. She was in New York or l A. So like you know, the cost of living is nothing, you know, and I've never had anything, and I just want to put a roof over their head, or at least by health insurance. And and uh, I said, okay. And it kind of hit me because I've never been involved in anything. Everything I've done is pretend, whether it's a comedy act, whether it was with the script. And I saw a real person and I'm standing not like here, not like I'm zoom, and I'm talking to a real person. And and what hit me is, you know, first and foremost, I'm a human, you know. And I'm a father, and I'm a husband, and uh, you know, I am empathetic, you know. And and what happened was I was looking at her and she had I don't know if you've been on the set of television set where somebody who has no experience in television, it has never been anywhere. She's never been to Hollywood. I think it was the first time on a plane and the lights around this thre hundred people, I could see that there's a glaze, you know, she's not really focusing. She's just amazed that she's in this amazing situation and this amazing opportunity. I did a couple of jokes, and I could see that she's like just having a good time and doing the jokes, but it's it's distracting. And she opens the first couple of cases and I say to her, it's the first time I've taken a call from the banker who offers her ten thousand dollars. And I say, uh, Karen, the banker offers you ten thousand dollars. And before I can say deal or no deal, she goes no deal. And I'm thinking, you know, I wanted to say to her, you know, ten thousand dollars cash right now. I know for a fact where you live. Number one, you can get health insurance. Number two, you could probably get it down at this time. You know, we're talking about two thousand and five. You could probably put a down payment on a house, and you can you can put a roof. I'm looking at the children right here, and you're not focusing. And I started to think, you know what, maybe it's me, maybe because I'm being so distracting, and that I wanted to focus, and I changed my cadence, which ended up being made fun of on SNL. But I talked to her like I would talk to the five year old, and on the next offer, I would go, Karen, the offer is sixty dollars. You were so invested and so present to bring back your word, right. But the point about the point was I just the whole, my whole being. I forgot about every joke I ever did, my whole, my well, not even the money that that. I wanted you, the contestant, to leave in a better position than you came in. And I wanted and I if you didn't, I don't want it to be on my you know, when people left and it didn't do good. I really left that set every day feeling horrible if they if they didn't do well. And I just wanted you to do better, and I wanted you to make decisions. And you know that million dollars. Oh but if she, if she had that, the next one was a million dollars, you would have freaked out too, though I'm sure that happened. Yeah, But I'm not a gambler, you know, even in Vegas gambler. I don't know if you should take that if you need it right now, there's three children sitting there, and you could take sixty dollars right now. I would take sixty because they used to get mad at me because I go, listen, sixty dollars is you're right right now. But if you don't, if you do not take the sixty dollars that goes away, you're going for a chance. Hear me the word chance at one million dollars. So do you want the guaranteed six? You are? You in a position? Wow, you were good at this. That's why you were good at this. Because I'm feeling it now. Well, so, so here's what happened. So I take those five shows. I have never been more depressed in my life. I went home and I said to my wife that this is not only depressing, it's humiliating. This is the first time I was on five hours of television. I told no jokes. I didn't I didn't play a character, I didn't have any lines. I just was like, I am at home with my with my kids. This is gonna be so fucking embarrassing. By a ticket right now, let's go to the Caribbean. We flew to Tortola. I wanted a place that didn't have TVs, that didn't have anything. I didn't want to watch my I didn't want to watch my career. Just you know, I was so humiliated. On that Tuesday morning, I get a call from Rob Smith's from endem All say, you're not gonna believe it, like twenty million people watched last night. No. Yeah, so so he went, he went that's then the next day he calls me. It's twenty two million. The next day he calls me and he goes, this is a phenomenal. Deal or No Deal is probably one of the like that show quiz Show in the seventies, right, well, push show is the reason that that you know, they didn't do talk shows for a long time because that's the they cheated. Yes, it was the big prime time Anyway, what happened was on Friday, I flew back, I landed in Miami and within three seconds, the first person that caught the look just looked at me went deal or no Deal. That was the biggest success of my career and off the on, the biggest risk and the one thing I said no to. And not only that, I mean, I'm not I'm twoting my own horn here, but it's not my horn because they thought of hiring me. But but the thing is that within weeks, you know, Fox called Jeff Foxworthy and said, are you smarter than a fifth grade? Um family feud called Louis Anderson now became Steve Harvey, and now there isn't a game show alive that isn't headed by uh comedian. I was. I was the first. I get that. I was the first one to really make celebrity alcohol connection and a public way people and no one knows that, no one cares. But I didn't know that about you. I wouldn't know that. I know you, Howie Mandel, I know you're hilarious. I wouldn't know that, So thank you for telling me. Because I like people. People should be reminded and you should get the street credit for it, or Rob Smithson, Well, I don't need any credit for it, but it's just what happened. But it's the one thing. And then based on that success, I ended up the mark it can Our, our mutual friend and agent at the time, um Uh negotiated a production deal, so I became a production company. I don't know that other people know this, but I love I actually love behind the scenes more than in front of it. And I ended up producing a bunch of shows. And then I was at Universal for seven years and then I left Universal and him off on my own and we bought I have my own studio and we produce and develop everything from apps to games to a lot of digital and television shows we we put on the air and formats. So you know, that started my business in the show business. And it's the one thing that was the most embarrassing thing that I said no to, but that kind of enforced there's no more knows I don't do no anymore, right right? Okay? Well, I love that there's only two more questions because I didn't want to keep you too long. Is that I have three more answers? Good? I bet you to wait. So work ethic. We talked about that a lot. We're in the lands of gimmicks and filters and Instagram and and and and fools gold, and you know, you work so hard that you're reinfit's not even really a question. It's kind of a commentary and you'll have something, hopefully to say about it, but just that it's really about old school hard work. It sounds like every single thing that you do, you do to the fullest. You execute, you deliver to the best your ability and and your present in whatever you're doing. That sounds like, well, that could be right now. And that's what the key to success is that for young people listening, it really is just about going for it, executing and you know, figuring it out all all roads eventually to Rome. But you know, you use that, you're using the term work. You know, I don't feel like I work. I feel like I do a lot of stuff. I feel like, but you worked at carpets, the carpets, you're working, you know what? Not Really I enjoyed. I have so many stories, you know, it was really funny. I got a job at the warehouse and the carpet warehouse. When I met the guy who sold the carpet to the warehouse, I said, how can I do it? And I was going door to door selling, and I don't think I was doing it. First of all, I'm incredibly color blind. I don't think I'm not a good but I'm a good salesman. But sales is I just had an audience of one or a family. So it's not work. You're saying, it's something you're just executing something that you love or that you're scared to do, or that it's taking risks and and and I mean there's some maybe the risks, I don't think that. You know, afterwards, I think there was a risk, But in the moment, there's no risk. I'm just doing and I do these things and and they end up being incredibly productive, and there is some and even at the things that I work really hard at and you're talking about, or the things that I do a lot, and then they don't create something or there's nothing coming out of it. Then what I've created is knowledge. I've created a knowledge of a path to not go down. Oh. Of course failures are successes because you learn the skill set to resolve those issues, the practical solutions and work through it and you don't make the mistake again. You know, people may think this is work. You know what we're on. We're on a podcast right now, you're on a podcast. It doesn't feel like I'm working. It feels like I can't believe this is my job, you know, talking to somebody about things that I'm interested in. But I am. I mean, this is time that I can't do something else. No, thank you for saying that's my I'm so grateful too, And I know you didn't say it for that reason, but like I can't believe that people give me their time to have these conversations. But I love it so much because I feel like most people don't know these granular aspects about you and the threads you know of of of who you are. You know, and if you read Steve, if you read Steve Jobs book, you know he was in that right. So he was in the garage doing things that you know, he wanted to do that he was passionate about that he was It wasn't about the billion dollar changing to what it did change the one world. It did make a billion dollars, but that's not why he was doing it. Everybody who's really six has fawn here. Well. I mean, I bring up Cheryl Sanmdberg, who really was an you know, academic, like she just she just loved what she was doing. That's really the key to success. It's it's so it's been so tried and true. People don't really believe it's so many people are motivated by money and all the cars and all the flash and cash on social media, and that's not the key to success, Like it really is loving what you're doing, passion. The drive is because of the passion and the truth and the purity of what you talked about earlier. Of all the people I know in my life, UM, the most miserable people are probably rich, you know. And I know a lot of really I know, really content people that don't have what maybe most people would think is a lot of money, but they are rich in the sense that they are excited about getting up today and doing whatever it is that they've chosen to do in their life or in that week. And that's what I say. Just find a passion and that is success. That's an amazing Okay's last thing is you've been married for a long time, and um, no relationship is perfect, but I call it successful relationships or two successful people. Uh, you know, maintain a partnership for such a long period of time. And what have been tenants that that? What are things that you rely on or that you have relied on that have always been tried and true, connecting in every day, giving each other space, really accepting who you are, what you know, if if it's important to them, it's important to me. No, everybody has different but I'm giving you what other people have said. Well, I think that the one thing that works in any relationship and and and that goes for your spouse, your children, that your coworkers, um everybody. The one main thing is respect, you know, just respect. Just you know, I believe that that's it, that that you can't be. I respect humanity, I respect everybody. I respect you know, you have to look somebody in the eye and feel that everybody and every person about who they are are worthy of respect. And I don't care. I respect when my child about my grandchildren now are seven years old. I have as much respect for my seven year old granddaughter as I do for my wife. Beautiful. No one has said that answer, by the way, So like that's why I said a bunch just because it's been different from everyone. But that is so simple, that's amazing. No one has said that answer, which is so true, just such a basic principle to live by. But it really could guide your entire life. Not that I there are people that I don't respect, but just to say that in your relationships sometimes you're snippy, sometimes you don't do what the other person wants, and just your moody respect really goes a long way overall. It's not I like that a lot, does it? Does? You have to give people? I mean, first of all, we're all original. We're all this one great, you know, crystal. You know, I don't know if you collect crystals, but every good. No, two crystals are exactly like. No, two humans are exactly alike. Nobody's the same age, nobody looks the same. You gotta respect it. You don't look at a two crystals and go, this one's well. You can't say this one's better than the other. But you have as much respect for these two little rocks. That's human that's humanity. It's weird. You just mentioned that I got the first crystal I've ever gotten in my entire life yesterday, my assistant standing. Yeah, thank you for respecting it. I respect the crystal. I bought a crystal. I just wanted a crystal in my house. I felt like it just should be in the center of my house. Is so weird you just brought up yesterday at camp um Howie. I respect you so much. I am so grateful that you took this time to talk to me. What an amazing conversation, and it like I will be thinking about it for days to come. I appreciate it so much. All right, well, I appreciate you continued success in health. All the best to you you too, and loved your family. Howie Mandel is electric, smart, interesting, kind, respectful, funny, open, honest, and it was really interesting station where Um. You know, in the beginning, I think people may not know what to expect. They probably think it's just going to be a normal interview and they're gonna just you know, tell me sort of the sound bites of their life story, and we end up getting into a really unique conversation and a trajectory that none of us knew where it would go. And I just love that, you know, finding commonalities between myself and Howie Mandel is something I would never have thought of, um, and yet there were so many and it was really really interesting. And I continue to be grateful for the time that people give me the wisdom, the sort of you know, intimate secrets of their lives just to help you. And you can hear as we talk them wanting to give you take away for your career and your path. So uh grateful as ever, and thanks to you for everything, and remember to rate, review and subscribe. Thank you two