Everybody’s Divorce (with Denise Richards)

Published Dec 21, 2023, 5:29 AM

Denise shares the personal side of her very public divorce from Charlie Sheen.  She reveals the style in which she now communicates and why it works. 

Plus, Bethenny and Denise discuss the effect toxic exes, custody laws and paparazzi have on children.

Okay, so let's transition into what Denise and I talked about when I called her to say, I'm a little overwhelmed and there's just a lot going on and I want to do like my traditional Christmas holiday weekend with Brinn, and deniseaid I wouldn't ask you this on camera, but like, how did you handle the custody situation and the back and forth and when your daughter wouldn't be with you? When I was sitting there thinking, look who's asking me that? Like Denise Richards public divorce like myself, but yours was two public people, and it made me realize. And I've talked about divorce and breakups and custody and a lot of that stuff, and people are starving for it because everyone's going through something. And with the rate of divorce and with holidays and with custody challenges, I thought we would talk about, like both of our experiences of divorce, breakup, custody, that type of thing during the holidays, and I thought you definitely have a unique perspective on it as well.

It is it is so hard to go through, which is probably why a lot of people don't want to get divorced, is because of the kids. But when you are going through divorce and going through custody, the holidays I think are the hardest times with having to switch off.

You know, there was a year where.

One could have Christmas Eve, the other could have Christmas and then and it makes it really difficult for that and then one could wake up the next morning with the children.

One couldn't.

It was it became such a schedule and not about what the kids want. And that's and I think that is so hard, and it's something that so many parents go through and it's very, very difficult.

It was devastating for me.

So you're talking about what something I've experienced, which is that a custody agreement is a contract, but it's supposed to be the spirit of that contract is supposed to be in the best interest of the kids. And often you're getting divorced when these kids are young and you're talking to lawyers and thinking about numbers and pieces of paper, like meaning you're thinking about the out of a fourteen day period and you're gonna have Wednesdays, you're having every other this day, you having five and four, you having nine and twelve, Like you don't know what you're talking about. And you're trying to trust lawyers to tell you how it's going to go, and then you get on the road and then it's actually real, so it's not just like a word like, oh, I'll have them Christmas Eve, and you'll have them Christmas Day this year. Then next year you'll have them Christmas Day and I'll have it. But in reality, what about you as an adult and you get into another relationship, what if that whole vacation you maybe wanted to take a vacation, you might rather just have them the whole sweep and not have them, because then you have to stay you're landlocked right for a half a day, and then you're going to be alone the rest of the vacation. Or like in my mine, I never thought about the fact that on the weekends we go to the Hampton's and the traffic and the time that what you had to get my daughter back is so insane that she would get carsick and throw up in the car. And if the other person is holding you to the letter of the law, like every comma, it can be destraught exactly. And then you're getting into legal issues because of like a transfer or something that's not in the best interests of the child. So what Denise and I were talking about, if you have a good partner or a good ex, that's going to be really flexible because you're gonna communicate and always think about the best interest of the child. That's one thing. But if you have an ex who's gonna be ornery and rigorous, you have to think of everything ahead of time and really try to go through it because it will be different as the kid gets older and they have sports and obligations and just things you didn't think of. So Denise, how did you deal with that during the holidays? What was your schedule and then how did you navigate that?

Well, it was.

Very difficult because what you said, it should be in the best interest of kids, but it's the best interest of parents right when they're What worked for parents the schedule down to the minute. And like you just said, so in the beginning with Charlie and I and I'm sure he'll be fine that I'm talking about this, and he'll probably say it too, we were not getting along at all, and it was harder when he was with his his other acts Brook. When they got together, it was very difficult. I wasn't allowed to go to the house. I wasn't allowed to. I had to drop the kids off at a gate and have someone drive them through the gate to the house, which was very difficult for the kids because they're like then they feel insecure, like, how come come.

To the house? Yes, And I tried to get Charlie to understand it.

That's just we don't have to be best friends, but we can just bake it and be nice to each other and let me drop them off to the house and let them feel comfortable. Otherwise they would feel so insecure and right away like not safe because if mom can't come.

In, why we're going in there?

You know what I mean, right, No, I fully know what you mean, and but you and there are layers to this, meaning in my situation because of some legal stuff that went down, we.

Lay too, so I know what you're talking about.

Okay, So we'll get into the layers because people you'd be shocked at how many people need to hear this, because I got such a response when I talked about this stuff. So it will seem weeds ish, but I think we should get into the weeds because my relationship to what you just said was that for all of these years we.

Have not had any communication.

This person that always does all the emailing, so my assistance will email someone from my ex's world, yeah, for everything. So I'm there's never been any communication between the two of us, and many of you may think that's challenging, but I want you to know that it's possible. So if you're in a hostel situation, you can have an entire lifetime and a functional program by either using that wizard that people use, but.

Or emailing a proxy.

And often what gets really toxic for people in divorces and breakups because I don't want to I don't want to ignore people who just are broken up because that's hard to not just divorces. Text is toxic.

It does.

It's fast and it's not slow. It's not slowed down, and you can get mean text and want to react. And what you should do is if you're in a difficult situation, takes six hours to respond to a text, or just take it all to email and do the same thing. So that's one thing I wanted to say to what you said about the transfers, and for me, I found that transfers are better to happen at school, so it never seems like it's one parent for the other parent.

It's a neutral location.

Yeah, I agree with that. We didn't go very long where I had to do that schedule. Okay, he went very sideways and so and then.

You know, then I was.

Like trying to I would make excuses for the holidays why he wasn't showing up.

And that's a whole other layer of issues.

What is that layer, because that's not a layer that I understand, and except to know that in many situations, in the beginning, the child, the parents want the child to like hate the other parent. Like parental alienation really does happen, and I've experienced that where the parent really wants the kid to be alienated from the other parent, and it really does work. When kids get to a certain age, their eyes get wide open and all of a sudden, everything comes clear in the picture and they remember all the previous scenes that they were too young to really emotionally understand. But when they get older, it all comes together and it's very overwhelming for them because they realize, oh wait, that's what that meant when that happened. So A, it's not a good idea for parents to try to get the kid to not like the other parent. But well, I'll fantasize thinking like it'd be great if that other parent wasn't even you know, we didn't have to deal with that other parent. But it's so the kid. The child has to have a good, healthy relationship with both. And what you're about to talk about is interesting to me because it's painful for you to watch your child suffer when their parent doesn't show up on Christmas. And I haven't seen that, so I want to hear about that well.

First Also, I never wanted I truly, from the bottom of my heart, never wanted the girls to hate their dad. I want to have a good relationship because I have such an amazing relationship with my father and write with my mom.

So that's why I really.

Wanted us to work hard at keeping it healthy and positive and and not say anything bad about I didn't if anyone, I would tell everyone in my home, do not talk negatively about their dad, don't say a word. But I I went overboard, actually to the point where when things did go the way they did, they were shocked, like, how come they didn't know this right? As got older, But I that's what I wanted to do. I really do feel like there is no handbook for all of this. You have to do what's best for your situation. But I do really encourage because a lot of parents also asked me to how do I handle it and how did I handle it? And the best thing I think is to not say a thing negative. But if the kids came to me and asked me, I would validate their feelings. I understand why you feel that way, but let's try to make things better or this. So in the beginning, when we did the contract, which didn't last very long, that was painful, and it was hard for the whole holiday thing with the half a day.

What we just talked about.

And then when it got to a point where he was gonna come over for Christmas, then you know, he would come and see the kids, like at our house for dinner, and we were able to be together with the kids. That's when he was going through.

His other divorce, so that happens too.

Yeah, I found it harder when he was with someone and then when they split. Even though I have a good relationship with Brooke now, at the time when they were together, it was not good. And when they split then Charlie was wanting to it was okay for him to come around me and be with kids and have dinners and stuff like that. But then when he got deep in his addiction and wasn't able to show up for dinner or for Christmas, it was so painful for the kids, and I would have to lie to them, you know, and make up excuses why he wasn't there.

And I covered for him a lot. And I don't know if that was the right thing to do.

It sounds like it was the right thing to do for them, or just say he's going through something, he's having an emotional time. It's fascinating to me that you have a markedly more healthy relationship in co parenting than I do. But mine is functional, but there are there's no one size fits all, That's what we're trying to say, you know, And there are different dynamics.

Mine when mine has gone through many phases. You can down and up and down, and you just kind of ride the wave of whatever period you're in, whether it's what you're going through with your acts or what I went through to and you know, sometimes still go through even though our daughters are older.

Yes, in some cases the other person meets someone and ends up being better because they become happy, and that's so obsessed. And it's the one thing that you said about the child, never saying a bad thing about the other parent. It's critical because the first thing a judge ever said to me on the first day I ever met a judge, nine years before we get to you know, ten years before we ended up resolving at all, said, two parents fighting over the custody of a child is like watching your child drown off a doc and you're standing up there and they're begging for you to save them. Like it's a very damaging thing. So it seems like just the throwaway comments don't mean something. They're extremely confusing and extremely damaging. I'm going to give point blank advice that I think is true. You tell me what you think, because you just brought up the Christmas day or the Christmas morning, the Christmas night. I think it's terrible to divide the holidays. I think it's a terrible idea.

I think to have the child do like Christmas Eve sleepover and then leave Christmas Day it's jarring.

Yeah, it's a.

Lot, right, Okay, So any divorce lawyer that suggests that is a moron because they have to really strongly, strongly advise against. What works for kids the most is consistency. So what works for kids the most is like, Okay, this parent, parent A, has the children for Christmas.

As a whole holiday, eve end day.

Doesn't matter how Christian you are, it doesn't matter how important this is Christmas even day, and the other parent on that particular year has them for New Year's the next year. You both have the opposite experience. And my solution to that, so you don't have your kid, your kid, your three year old. You don't have your child on Christmas Day and the pajamas and the presents whatever.

I would do fake Christmas. So I would figure out.

And I did it for Thanksgiving too, same thing with Thanksgiving. It shouldn't be chop up the day. It's jarring for the kids. It's weird and it's just yeah, they're dragging their stuff. They can't relax. It's stressful. It should be that like on the twenty first or the nineteenth or whatever, I would do the whole thing, the Christmas tree.

We'd wake up. I would say we're gonna do it early. Like you just tell the truth.

You don't say you know, you just Sanna is coming here first, and we're going to do it early. This is and it was the best thing I ever decided to do, because otherwise you're just.

Crying and wallowing.

And it's good for you too, because then you get to go away and live your own life when you're miserable.

Well, you're also even though you pretend like everything's okay that day, the day they have to go to the other parents, you know, in the morning or whatever, obviously they're going to pick up on your emotions too. Yes, so that's all you know. They are very intuitive, more intuitive than we think. And yes, I definitely I agree with you one thousand percent. If I could have done it all over, I would do that where it was the fake holiday and then just let them be.

With the other parent for the whole holiday.

Yeah, And for some reason the schedule doesn't allow. It's after I've had it be where we go to the Hamptons after brings away and I haven't been with her on Christmas and Sanna came to the Hamptons and dropped all the gifts there. Like, you figure it out, but you don't make yourself and your child miserable, because both will, you know, feed off of each other, and that's why I think people are so that's why this season is so challenging, because the marketing of what it's supposed to be on this day and you know what, you know, if you do it on the twenty sixth, the twenty seventh, or whenever the kid gets back to you, you can get everything on sale, you know, like there are just ways to place of yes, this and the same same thing for Thanksgiving. I've done Thanksgiving on a Tuesday.

Right, No, that's what I think.

That is the healthiest and the best advice that you and I could give any parent going through, especially a toxic divorce where the parent you know, but there were some Christmases that Charlie and Thanksgiving where he was with us. If you have a healthy relationship with your ex and you guys can all be together, that's wonderful. But if you don't and you have to do these schedules, which by the way, the lawyers don't want you to get along because they make more money or your divorce goes on the more money they make, that's the healthiest I think too.

I agree, and I mean it doesn't mean it's not going to be hard in the beginning.

It's exasperating.

And I would say when you're going through a divorce, the idea is worse than the reality. The idea of being away from your children. You just can't even believe it. You feel like a terrible, disgusting person. You're a disgusting mother that is going to like get a divorce and not be with your kids. On certain days like what kind of person are you? And you beat yourself up. I once on Thanksgiving Day, I was alone. I went into the ocean.

It was a it was a.

Warm day, but it wasn't it was November obviously, and I was in the ocean and in the Hamptons. I just was hysterically crying and I just needed to like do something shocking for my body to like get myself out of the depressed, sad slumber.

I mean, it's it's hard.

But you've got to proactively predict the emotions because they're going to come. Like you've had you've done it enough that you know. If you have the type person who can be home and watch movies and do yoga and you're happy you're sleeping, that's great. But if you're not, and you're going to be in a deep depression. You have to figure out what the hell you're going to do with yourself. Go skiing, go walking, do something.

Absolutely, because the holidays were so important in my family and that was very, very hard for us.

So you know, it was hard.

It's hard, and I you and I agree with you one thousand percent that is the best advice is to do the alternating thing.

I think it's way harder splitting it.

It's funny because I'm thinking of also how like with schools, you have to be communicative because it happens in the summer, and it happens with camp and like you have to make things work. You know, there aren't camps don't have a divorce program. Like you want to sign up for a camp, but they're going to miss two of the days of the week because they're not going to be with you and you're paying for this camp. Like those are other times you have to make up creative situations or different types of ways to handle that.

Yeah, and if it's on your ex's week where they have certain activities and maybe he doesn't want to take them to those activities and then he's like, well they're missing those activities, And I think that's something that consistency is the most important thing with kids and that they stick with you know, what they're interested in and what they're doing and hopefully it's.

All in all though it is I mean, it is.

Really difficult going through a divorce when you have a toxic X or a toxic.

You know, divorce. It sucks, it's.

Nice, it's not easy.

And but you think about like I don't love traveling a ton because I like to be home and I'm a nester and I think you're a homebody too.

Right, Yeah, I like to stay home a lot too.

So think about your kids and the worries that they have about the stuff and like keep that here because that was expensive, and like you got like they're running back and forth with a backpack full of stuff, like they have to plan to travel every week. Think about that, Like you know, they're worried about their special lip gloss or their thing, you know, and they're going back and forth and it's really hard on them. You try to figure out how to make that easier. And you have to be very organized with the calendar months in advance to try to see the board, see what you're going to have, what's going to change. And try to figure out even if you see them a little less fewer transitions for them.

I agree.

And you know, a lot of people don't have the luxury of having the money to have the same thing in to different places, the same right to their stuff, and they.

Do have to travel with all their clothes and all their things.

They don't have the luxury of oh, okay, they've got closed there, they've closed here. That's not realistic for a lot of people. And a lot of people can't afford a lawyer to go through even a schedule, and they're trying to figure out, how do we do this with our divorce? Yeah, defensive, Yes, they can't pay to have someone continue to deal with the custody.

It's extremely expensive, that's true. And that's a business like. That's a good like. That's why I talk about this a lot because I to get you know, I got custody of my daughter after a ten year battle primary custody, and I had notebooks. I was very organized about everything because it's a very long and tedious process. And if you can't afford it, the one thing I will say is find a way in the beginning to get somebody that knows both of you to try and mediate, because in the beginning, if you start doing damage, that damage becomes rotten. It never goes away, and it keeps getting layered on, and then you're arguing more because of things that happened right before that, because of things that happen right before that thing, Like it's not even about the original thing or the reason you broke up. So that and try to not break too many eggs, because usually if you could agree upon something in the beginning or find someone else to be involved, you'll end up going back in circles and end up restarted. It's just hard to see that when you're seeing red.

It's very hard, though, to have someone that you both know, that you're probably friends with to help mediate, because eventually that person will side with one or the other and the other person will feel.

People only talk about the money with the prenup. The hardest part of a divorce is not the money. The money you can figure out with a calculator, and in the worst cases, like I had a forensic account, the custody and the children and the emotions is the worst thing, and that's not something agreed upon ahead of time. So it should be like I love you, honey, and we're in a great place. If we break up, let's come up with a fair situation that would go on with our kids.

There should be a custody prenup.

It's ridiculous, Okay, it's ridiculous that doesn't happen. There should be a custody prenup. And in addition, this is the person that is totally unbiased. It is a law is a lawyer that will do this for us for free, or an accountant or some business person that will just step in right away if this doesn't go well and they will help us.

Rationally want a prenup for custody.

I know, but nobody does that, and no one's ever said that. I've never heard anyone say it money, but no one's ever said that. So there should be some service that is provided. I should start this out yet, like you know what I mean, Like have it as like this is a custody prenup. This is what is suggested because in addition to the holidays all year round, there are so many things that people do that are stupid. Like I said, like a transition on a Sunday, a kid goes from one parents to the other parents house, then the next day they're getting up and going to school, so like it's jarring for the one parent that had the kid, Like they can't make any real plans. All day you're thinking about the transfer. Where transfers should flow. It should flow through the school. The kid gets dropped off at the school by one parent, gets picked up by another. Nobody knows anything happened, Nobody hates each other. It's all through the school or the camp or that kind of activity.

I'll never forget when my mom was in the hospital before she passed away. I was down in San Diego for three weeks and the first week, the Wednesday was missed and I was like, okay, Then it became two more weeks, and I'll never forget my lawyer at the time telling me you can't use the uh the dying card because I said my mom's passing away. He goes, wow, she could die three months from now, and I was like, are you fucking kidding me?

Right died.

A week later because it was like he had to get I'm like, I can't drive my kids up from San Diego to Los Angeles leave my mom if she passed away.

I will never.

Forgive myself Oh my god. They were going to send a driver, and I said, I'm not going to send a two and three year old with a strange man in a car for three hours.

No fucking way.

I had the same I had.

If he wants to see the kids, he can drive his ass down, pick them up, and drive back.

I'm not doing it.

Oh right, But you started to fear. I was threatened that I'd be arrested if I didn't transfer. I start to fear because it's not real.

Though. It's because if I didn't do Bill, then I would be fucked.

But it's not real, is what I'm trying to say. So I was afraid. It's not real.

I was afraid that I was going to be arrested because it was told to the courts that like, because my daughter did was traumatized during the pandemic and would not transfer. What I mean, I'm not going to get into the details, but it was it was traumatic details of her not willing to transfer. And I was biting my nails off because I my lawyers said, throw her in the just put her in the car. You just got decision making drag her. I don't care put her in the car. Aren't you the mother does it? You're eleven, I go, you fucking crazy. My daughter's brain has hives, hyperventilating, I cannot throw And but I was genuinely scared I was going to be like arrested at my house in the hand. It's like I and the judges are not like that, Like they're not thinking of every piece of minutia and drama, and it would have to be a lot to take me coming to get arrested.

But you still just don't know.

Somebody could call the cops on you and you could get around. So I was like exasperated the whole pandemic, which is what ended up leading up to this. I mean, she had a guardian ad LTAM, which is her own lawyer, to fight for herself, and it was insane. But things like that, you're not rational. You're listening to lawyers saying wait. So I would try to literally pull my daughter by the arm to put her on a cargo and transform like this cannot be right, Like this is.

Not me being a good parent.

But when something's to the letter of the law, you're scared of it, Like I know it's used to threaten you, and it's not the way that these contracts are designed. They're designed to aid the child, and for anyone going through this, I strongly suggest you get a therapist involved. And some of you might say that you have to have both parents to agree that a therapist can be involved, and this.

Is that's true.

Sometimes it is, but I've never said, I mean, I've never seen a judge be upset at a child talking to a mental health professional.

But something of the money to go to get to a judge.

That's no, that's true about a judge and.

Both signatures of both parents. And that's true too, to even go to a lawyer did.

But then use your school resources, use the school psychologists, use the school guidance counselor. A child has to have a place to use their voice. And as a parent, you it can't be what you're saying. It'st the other parent, because that's not a judge or any any being or society is interested in the child's needs. So have places for your child to speak freely, like if you can't afford it, like I said, a guidance counselor someone at school, like, we have to use our resources and it's not embarrassing, and there are people there to talk to even teachers or great advocates, like if kids are heard by an adult, that's better received from a judge then a parent saying something about the other parent a third party is a great idea.

No, I agree with you one thousand percent.

Yeah, it's funny because you said how you had the holidays as a kid, and I think that we get caught up in that too, because for me, like I have certain memories, it was the only really sane and like meaningful time in my childhood. And as an adult we're breathless, feeling like we're falling short or it didn't live up to the expectations of our childhoods, and it's like we were kids, so Christmas had a different meaning than being a responsible adult. But like you kind of want to have that with your child and give that to them, and it gets depressing when it's not like that.

It does. I'll never forget.

One of the best pieces of advice my mom gave me before she passed was she said, you have to let build the white pick at best.

Wow, your kids are.

Growing up very differently than you did. Because I so badly wanted to hang on to the small town, but I lived in la Wow.

Very different with pop Rozzi.

I was married to someone very famous and lived in a very big house and had.

A lot more money than we did when I was growing up.

And she's like, you've got to let go bit And that was like such good advice for me, because I wanted everything to be perfect, like the perfect family of how I grew up, and it was just very different.

That's so funny.

And yeah, that's where all that stuff, like the fake Christmas and the other things come through. And I try to make things meaningful, but it's a new meaning and it's new traditions.

You know.

I have my own traditions with my daughter that are different and something even as silly as like on you know, she doesn't want to ever miss Christmas morning in a place that like feels like cold to her, like that's a thing. And we were talking about going and driving out to Long Island to go to this our house, and she was like, Okay, mommy, can we just drive ourselves in the morning because we sometimes have someone drive us.

I mean I have a driver, that's the truth.

So that we would wake up in the morning and like can we go in our pajamas and can we go so there's a Starbucks open, and can we drive out there on our own? Like whatever this little thing is, it'll be a new tradition, like this us in pajamas getting in the car and this little road trip. Like she likes these kids especially, I think in divorces like to cling on to individual traditions and memories with their parents, and I think it's just important to create them, and it doesn't matter how small or big.

Like we have one.

Where we go to this special ornament store and we each pick out an ornament that reminds us of the other person, and like it's just an ornament store, it's just it, but it's a thing that we now do. And like so those small things do really have a lot of meaning.

They do.

Whenever the girls and I travel, I always will get an ornament from that place.

Mm hm same that, no, so that we.

Always have that for the tree when we you know, in each place we get something different that represents the place that where we were at.

And then when they were younger, we always would do cookies. Baking cookies was huge for us.

And when you decorate the tree, you see those ornaments, Yeah, can you remind it?

Yeah?

And it's nice and it's special for them, and you know, when they're older, they'll be able to take those with them, you know what I mean.

So it's nice.

And do you do how what will your Christmas and New Year's look like? Because when we talked on the phone, you were a little like, I don't know.

You know, you should go to Montana every Christmas and we love being in the snow, and my sister lives there with her boys.

But this year, I think we're going to stay in.

La And just who's going to be with you?

It's going to be just small.

It'll be my in laws are here and my dad will spend it with him, and you know, just be just us.

And where will the kids be this year? Like what happens with them as older kids?

Oh, they'll they'll be with with me.

Oh okay, they will be with you.

You know. Maybe their dad's will always welcome to come.

So it's it's a few weeks out, so for him it's years away.

We'll see, yeah, And what about the presence and the pressure of presents, like, how did you how did you deal with that? You know?

Okay, So they're the older girls are eighteen and nineteen, so it's different from them than Eloise. They go through a phase where you know they want, where you feel like you have to get them every single thing they want or try to or try to make things good. And now that they're older though, it's you know, one or two, just something special that they really want.

I don't go overboard with the presence.

And since you grew up in a small town with a normal pick of fence childhood when they were younger, how did you deal with the pressure of the Hollywood gifts and the expensive stuff?

And like, oh, I went nuts with Christmas?

You did.

My dad was like, you are doing what you wanted as a kid.

Interesting and you didn't feel bad about it, like you love doing it?

Yeah, And I you know, it was crazy. I went overboard. But I remember Sammy was the one that was starting to not believe in Santa much earlier than Lola. She's like, I just don't understand how he goes through that chimney. How does he fit And why why wouldn't you open the front door because that's just where he goes.

And actually, I think coming from a sleigh because I do believe in Santa Claus, it's easier to just like park the sleigh mid air and just jump down a chimney.

It makes sense to me about Santa and stuff on him.

No you can't, I mean you can't. I mean I believe in Santa. You can say whatever you want. You were saying somebody didn't believe in Santa. I realized earlier and then what so what was that?

So?

What happened after that? As a result, I.

Was able to show a picture of Santa like bent over dropping the presence off.

Oh okay, got it? Got it?

Well?

I would say that for me with the presence from me, and year round this happens. I really try to hold the reins because there's so many experiences that we do together, like you know, even it's going to the jingle Ball and meeting celebrities, or we're going to Australia because I'm doing an appearance or all that stuff. She has a life that I'm always like, your life is, it's ridiculous. So I try to be to I try to like limit the purchases, and she has to. If she wants something, she has a dude's get you know, earn it.

But also.

If she wants new things, she has to get rid of things, like it's like an in and out, so then things really have value. And I'm really diligent about that because I want to keep control of this program because you know, it's hard to I didn't grow up that way either.

Like my daughter.

You know, if there's like a breakout or something, she can get a facial to clean her face. People can't afford, you know, to do that, and they just get actne have to like cry and suffer emotionally. She just has access to a lot, which so I indulge that, or like a tutor. I find that being able to have a tutor or go to a dermatologist, those are luxuries, but like buying everything you want, I really try to control it because it's like she goes to a rich school with rich kids, and many of them have a lot more stuff. The do you or blush and all the makeup, and I'm just like, what the hell?

You know?

The Prada and I'm like, I'm not going down that road. I mean, and one day it will happen on her own, because that's they do what they want, I guess, but for now I try to really control that beast.

How old is she again?

She's thirteen?

Thirteen.

Oh boy, Yeah, it's when it starts.

Saw a couple of tough years.

Yeah.

And the other thing I'll do, which is a dirty secret that parents can listen to. If there is a gift that she's gotten in the past. Let's say it was a birthday or Christmas, and like, I see it still in the box that like she never touched it or used it. I'll wrap it up and give it to someone else. Or I'll wrap it up and give it to her again because she probably forgot about it. I'll wrap up the same game because I'm not like she it could be a year and she hasn't seen it. I'm like, what about this art set that we were so excited about and that we need. So it's like we'll give it. She won't even remember. I hope when don't listen to this podcast. But yeah, because I but your podcast. No, but some of her friends at school do some of her I seem to.

Still with that part of it, like the celebrity part with you and your daughter.

It's really sheltered in the sense that she hasn't watched She's watched like clips of the Housewise, they don't watch TV on TVs. They watch it on their phone, so she's seeing clips and she finds it. She finds it trashy and embarrassing. That's her right, not a judge. She's just like, I don't think it's I don't want you to do it. I find it trashy and embarrassing. So that's something just to note. So she finds it trashy and embarrassing. And then I don't really go out that much, so it's not like we're on carpets.

You know.

The jingle ball is a very rare, actually.

Very You're in the media a lot, and you're on social media a lot.

How does she deal with that part?

Yes, the TikTok she sees, and the Instagram she sees. The media she doesn't see because she doesn't have a Google alert. I mean, she doesn't look for it. She probably has looked for stuff about our divorce and read up on that, but she doesn't really like Google me because I know her, she's the type person to say, wait, what about that? But she sees the social media posts, and you know, I think, I don't really think about it that much. But I just having a daughter that's thirteen has informed my decisions as to what I talk about and say, I'm it's the way that I say it, which I could have used in my life anyway. So I've changed a lot the way that I say things like not everything needs to be said, and if something that you really want to talk about you think people will relate to, it's the way that you say it, definitely, you know, as a very outspoken person.

I think it gets fifteen sixteen.

It'll shift with that too, where she'll be more aware of the stuff with you, shifted with me with the older girls.

You're right, and now it's that line.

Of your career and being a mom and being in the public.

It's so strange. It's hard.

Yeah.

I mean, like she knows when we're at a restaurant, I mean we get stopped a lot, but it's so friendly and the people are so nice and it's not like crazy. But she got recognized without me. The other day She's like, Mom, I got recognized, and you know what to be properly.

I like like that little tiny.

Version of it for her because it's a little fun like she's not you know, Stock, she's not Northwest, you know, but it's sort of like a little bit of a light and the fact that people that she's known, you know, to be honest, I realized that she'll have she'll be a little bit of a nepple baby and have a little bit of a leg up. And you know, it's okay to have a leg up in life, like, but I don't want her to bask in it or live in it. It's just like she dips her toe in it. I don't know, what do you think about that? With the with the girls and like they do they are they famous? Are they sort of famous?

Uh?

I would say Sammy gets recognized more than Lola because Sammy's out there more than she is, right, but they they get uncomfortable with paparazzi recognizing them, you know, if they feel if they're in like a sweatshirt or something, or like, I don't look funny.

That age that.

Those few years of where they're you know, a teenager and want to look a certain way. Prior to that, when they were with their some of their girlfriends, their friends would be like crazy in front of paparazzi and jump up and down and do things and they would be like, oh my god, don't don't say anything or whatever. They they were so used to it because since they were babies, they've had been around paparazzi.

They grew up with it, but being more aware of.

It as they've gotten older and what their parents do, it's a little different.

But I think that.

They I would say, both of them. I could see them both be in front of the camera. Sammy ironically, she actually would love to do like directing or you know, something like that.

But it's it's strange.

I think it's a strange thing when they do get recognized on their own without a parent with.

The right and you know, it's funny because like Bryn last year said, oh, they took my picture alone mama, like on the you know, and it showed up somewhere and she loves when, you know. She said, they said, oh Brinn brought her mom to the party, you know, and I like that for her.

I think that makes them feel good.

Yes, it's all about you, It's all about Denise Richards.

Yes, that's I agree that that's the thing that I was going to ask too. And when your daughter gets to be around fifteen sixteen, it's a hard thing for daughters, especially with moms with kids wanting to get to know them because of who their mom is or boys.

Oh by the way, I see.

Oh, she had a friend that would be over here and always wanted to be in the room where I was and wanted to talk to me about the makeup and my hair, Like I felt like I was with the pier, like asking me about my clothes and my fashion. It felt uncomfortable because it's like, I don't think a kid should be talking about Dior and like we're on the same level, like, oh my god, I have pants like that, Like I'm fifty three years old, Like you know what I mean. I mus supposed to be wearing or buying or affording the same things you do. So yeah, it's a thing at their age, for sure, and it's what we do for a living. You can't apologize for that. But you want to be aware that you're the center of attention in many cases, so you want to balance that out, I think, but not be overcompensated about it. Sometimes it gets too crazy where it's like this is how we pay the bills around here, right, you know, this is how your kids you afforded their lifestyle, so exact, you got to ride that line.

I think it is a fine line, though it's hard it is hard.

Don't see it more when she gets a little bit older.

I know, I'm interested to see what that's going to be like.

Yeah, yeah, especially boys. Oh really oh with the book? Oh right, yeah yeah. I'm not looking for her to be used by anybody about this either.

No, but you know what I'm saying. It's like when it's weird for a boy to say something.

About oh the mom.

Yes, and it's like a little teenager weird.

Yes, that's funny.

Yeah, because some of her friend boyfriends like hanging out.

Yeah, I get exactly. I'd picking up what you're putting down. Amazing.

Wow, Well this was awesome. The last thing, the only thing I'll say is don't get caught up in the minutia. Meet people are very tempted to constantly be in the weeds about everything, and it's not important.

It just it takes away. It crushes your soul.

And if you are in a legal battle, the judge and the lawyers, nobody cares about the minutia. They'll take your money and your emails about it that you're paying for. But don't get caught up in every little thing that's some one did. Because there are kids that are really being abused in the world, and judges don't care about every little piece of information that we want to give them, or lawyers.

And it becomes about that, and you miss the moments. Yes, don't miss the moments with the kids.

Yeah, exactly. And it goes so quickly, so fast.

Yes, when they're little, you think that the time is the most important thing, when in fact they're emotional well being. The decisions, the religion, the school, the camps, the real medical those decisions are more important than the time. And when they get to be a certain age, they're spending all their time with their friends and at school. So you were worried and fighting about every hour and every day, and it's going to become less and less important.

Sad.

I think one of the best gifts you can give your kids is time. So the time you are spending together, don't spend that time fighting with the.

X exactly on your phone you're.

Doing all this shit, because that's the stuff that is it goes so fast beyond.

That's a great that's a great note. Try to be present, not be on the phone at the time. And it's true, it's true. And the last thing I'll just say is, like people fall into hating their ex more than they love their kids.

Do not fall in that trap the kids first.

I always say to Charlie, just pretend.

If the times were it was so hostile with us, I said, just pretend for them, Just do it for them. Nice, get us, it's about let's do this for them. They didn't ask me in a split family, right, you know, he didn't come from divorced parents. I didn't either, right, So I said, I couldn't imagine.

Having to go back and forth. We didn't grow up.

Oh my god, Yeah, you know. So, yeah, that's.

One of the things that I would always ask him to do.

Yeah.

Brooke Burke was the first person who ever told me about that. When she was with David Charvey. She used to say, the kids would come back from the other house and like they'd be like maybe like a transitional day. Everybody's was like, you messed up on that, And I didn't understand because I hadn't gone through it.

And not until you go through it do you realize.

It's tough times, but you can get through them and you can be present and it's something to survive.

But it's it's all about the kids, You're right, So Denise, I love you.

You're so amazing and I'm still waiting to have our time together where.

You interview me, I can interview you. And when I get a plane and then I'm going on vacation with you and Charlie. So I've got a lot to look forward to. I'm going on a family vacation.

Yes, we're going to go on a family vacation.

Amazing.

I will have the most beautiful holiday.

I had such a good time with you. It was great. I appreciate you so much.

Thank you you too.

Awesome. Tell Aaron, I said, Hills love bye you too.

Bye Hone

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