On community service and overcoming financial anxiety and
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This may seem like this is for wealthy people, but champagne is at all different prices, and I don't know that many people that like champagne. Do you like champagne? No, okay, you get so hungover. I hear that from a lot of people. You on this podcast. Do you like champagne? Do you drink champagne? I can have the tiniest bit and then I get like immediately, it's like to bubble, and then I'm just like tired, and it's two drunk. So you're not a champagne person. So you're not a champagne and I'm not a champagne person. Paul is not a champagne person. I've never had a friend who's a champagne person. I never hear anybody order champagne anywhere. So I don't know who's drinking all this fucking champagne. I think people are just spraying it on each other, putting it in in rap gangster rapper videos. It's for nightclubs. I don't know who's drinking all the champ Paine. Okay, is tailor here in the house? Tall? Do you drink champagne? Okay? So nobody drinks champagne. Okay, did your mom text your mom, ask your mom drink champagne? Did you drink champagne? They're just gonna say, okay, So nobody drinks champagne and everybody thinks that makes them hung over. That's I've just done a focus group, okay, and most people don't drink champagne, and a lot of people can makes them hangover. So how come every time something fucking goes wrong somewhere they send you goddamn champagne. So you get to a hotel, welcome, here's a bottle champagne. Okay, thank you. What do I do now? Am I flying on a right fucking Gulf stream? So now it's gonna stay here. You're gonna give it to the next room. It's just just one. It's the same bottle of champagne going around the world, So that bottle is going to stay in that room. I'm gonna now have to charter a plane because I don't like to waste, so I'm gonna have to charter a plane for that cheap bottle champagne to put in my suitcase. So then something goes wrong a restaurant, something's wrong, We're just gonna send you over a bottle champagne. You sit down, Let's send them a bottle champagne. You got engage, Send them a bottle champagne. Something happened wrong. A Karen walks in and complains about the hotel. Just send a glass bottle champagne to their room. You did great welcome, you're doing speaking. Send the bottle champagne. Why we don't want the fucking champagne. Nobody wants a fucking champagne. Everybody gets to the champagne. Nobody's drinking the champagne. It's a scam. The champagne is a fucking scam. It's that same bottle going everywhere. I want the cash equivalent of the champagne for the mistake, or a gift card just to fucking a store that sells champagne, because I'm onto you and I understand the scam. I don't want the champagne and want whatever. If you are sorry or welcome me me or the gift or I don't want anything, make me a card, make me pot brownies or rice crispy treats or something and don't put razor blades in them, and I'll take that, or the gift card to old Navy or too Starbucks, or get me a manicure. I don't even get polished, so it doesn't matter to be ten minutes and it cost five dollars. But I don't want the fucking champagne because it's a scam. The bottle of wine is a and too. We get it. Everybody sends bottles to other people, put a ribbon on it, and bring it to somebody fucking else's house because the only reason you're giving it to me unless it's the specific wine that I like, which a lot of people like different kinds of wine, it's presumptuous. I like charde. Do I like chardon ay? Do I like uh san sair? Do I like Sauvignon blanc? Do I like Peanot noir or a Maubec or Cabernet? It's or do I like rose? It's presumptuous? You send me a bottle of red wine to my room? Same problem. Now what the funk am I doing this with this? I'm giving it to the housekeeper so she can, you know, get drunk while cleaning the room. I don't think she likes red wine either. She's a person everybody gives it to like the housekeeper or somebody. And that's also like looking down on like, don't give me the goddamn bottle. Save your money, hotels, don't give me the bottle of wine. Okay, give me some candy, Give me a Hershey's bar, give me a bag of fucking oreos. Give me something I can goddamn use. I don't want champagne. Give me a pencil case, give me anything. I don't want the champagne. I don't want the red wine. I don't want the white wine. You're not allowed to tell me the kind of wine that I want to drink. And I'm not well. I'm in a hotel. That's another scam. I'm at a hotel. You've done everything in this place to make it that I won't be in my room. You have a pool of water, slide a bar, you have a kid's club, you have a disco, you have all this stuff you have and all you can eat buffet, you have all you're all inclusive. You've given me a bottle of wine in my room. That's a scam. I don't want it. I want the money equivalent. If I am engaged, make a mistake, you want to say sorry. Something happens a welcome gift. I don't want them. I want no champagne, wine or anything. You would have to be something like a bottle of tequila that's clear, that's good quality, or that I could at least give to somebody as a gift. But I'm on a vacation, so I can't take it with me. I'm not on a private plane. So give me the cash equivalent. Give me a Starbucks card. Okay, give me something I can really fucking use. It aggravates me every fucking time. And if I bring it to somebody's house, they know I was staying in a hotel and they fucking no. I didn't buy that bottle wine either, so the scam continues. Some people like what's the other one? Like prosecco. I don't know what the funk that is. That's and I used to make it sparkling wine. That's okay, that's a sparkling wine. I don't want it, though, you know when I want that at brunch when I'm celebrating somebody else having a baby, which I never want to do either. So that's how much I want prosecco. Okay, we can go into baby showers and bridle showers too. Not a huge fan. So I want to know. I want to hear hard, cold, hard facts about champagne and who really wants it, and who wants a bottle of wine that you didn't choose red or white in a room, and wouldn't you rather just take they could take the shot, do some market research, give us a bottle of vodka. Someone drinks vodka, or give me a little flight of a cute, little miniature bottle of vodka and tequila or something. But I don't want that. We don't want that. We're gonna buy that. We're gonna buy that. We're gonna buy that a little store, we're in a hotel room. We're gonna save money. We're gonna buy that and make our drinks and the quantities that we want. That's a piss me off kind of move. I don't like. And then you're collecting something else happened tomorrow, some mistake. Now you have two bottles, and you know that's like a hundred dollars, it's focaliko, and you're leaving it there and you're waisted, what do we have to do? What are we gonna do with this? Oh my god, it's such a waste. What do we do with this champagne? Now? What do we do? Give it to the housekeeper? Do we give it to somebody else? Oh, the guy was driving us to the airport, Let's give it to him. What about the guy yesterday he took us on a shark diving adventure. He'd like it. Let's get his name. Let's spend fifty dollars on an uber getting to his fucking house to get it to him. Because I don't like to fucking waste. So who's gonna get taken? Give it to the valet parker, give it to somebody who works here. I'm not giving it back to the manager. He gets free champagne. He works here, he's the one who gives it out. He runs that scam. So who the funk are we giving it to? It's going back in there. It's bullshit. I'm gonna call it next time. Let's just say it. Hi. Google the price on on wine dot com. This champagne is. It's probably host sale. You can easily take it back and take it off my bill, Thank you very fucking much. Disclaimer and I've done it at Christmas time. If it's a very expensive bottle, a vove or dumb or something that someone gave me that's in like a box like they have like special boxes. I saw Paul's mom's house and I'm gonna steal it next year from her guest cottage fridge because it's been in there for three years and now we fucking know why. It's a bottle of click Co. But it's like wrapped. It almost looks like like a mesh cool like sports material. It's like almost like a little like champagne caddy. But it's been there for three years. I'm waiting what it's there for four years. I'm going in and be like, Okay, it's been here for three years. I'm taking it. I'm giving it to somebody as a Christmas gift. So I'll give like if it comes in one of those big elaborate boxes or like it's like a fancy box that like will be decorative on a bar, you know, then it's like a purse. Then it's like a statue. Now it's like a perfume model where it's a decorative. That's my disclaimer. Or if it's the most stunning bottle ever, that's my disclaimer for Christmas. So I'll put a fucking bow on it and give it to somebody else at Christmas. But that's the I'm in on the scam. That's the point. It's all a scam. I'm part of the scam. I'm just moving the ponds. And that's what a pyramid scam is. By the way, a pyramid scam is get people to come into the bottom and just move to try to get out at the top, so they pay fifty dollars and then that group of the bottom one that two goes to the next round and then goes to the top, and the person at the top takes all the money from all the layers. That's the champagne scam. We're just trying to get out of the scam. I just want to get rid of all of my bottles and get out, and I wanted more. I don't want to go back in, so I don't want more champagne bottles. I would like to hear from you if anybody drink champagne, and not because it was sent over to you, not because you want to pop something and make a toast. We can make a toast with anything we want make a toast. I'd rather make a toes a Cyanide Champagne. I hate Champagne and everybody hates Champagne. Today, my guest is Dr Drew, who you probably know from Love Line or Celebrity Rehab or his guest appearances on countless other shows. Did you know that he spent years doing his first radio show for free. He is a passionate man, a kind man, a family man, and somebody to learn from. It is incredible to hear how his instincts have literally shaped his career. I can't wait for you to hear this. Hi, Hey, how you been. I'm okay. Um. I talked to you, I think years ago on your show. I feel like we've been talking for many years, you know what I mean? I feel like we've been crossing paths over and over. How either came on or we're supposed to come onto your talk show back in the day. We're also old. How do you even remember anything? Don't even I just know that I know you? So, Um, where did you grow up? We're starting now, we've been starting. I grew up in Pasadena, California. And uh he actually I was born in Alhambra and lived there a couple of years. And um, I mean, go ahead and ask questions. I'm an open book, but there's a lot of interesting intrigue in my family of origin stuff. Well, I like to get a sense of someone's upbringing, their socioeconomic upbringing, the work ethic that their family did or didn't instill, the sitting down to dinner, what the deal was of your family. Yeah, so my father's parents were refugees from the Ukrainian genocide. Uh. My grandmother used to talk about the bandidos coming in and we never knew whether that was the czarist or the programs or we didn't know who who she was talking. She didn't know who she was talking about. But they knew to get out of there, and they went through Canada, got it, did the whole process of getting sponsors down here, came in through Hartford and up in Chicago, opened a restaurant in time for the depression, and my father was profoundly traumatized by the depression. He definitely depression, Eric kid? And what does that mean? How are those how? How what is a depression? Eric kid? How does that come out? What is that about? Being being penny wise? He would well beyond. So he and his father died when he was twenty one, by that point, he literally had finished medical school already by the age of twenty one. He was like, he felt like his his job to take care of the family and you know, support everybody. But they literally didn't know where their next meal was coming from. During the depression, they were nearly homeless, and that freaked him out. So he was very traumatized around finances. And then that was communicated to me in the following way. Obviously, there was a you know, an ethos about you know, security and getting a profession and you know, having having security blah blah blah blah blah. That was constant. But when I was about two or three years old, my father started uh traumatizing me. So he would literally go regale me with stories about how when he was a kid he had no shoes and had to walk in the snow and blah blah blah blah. And then you know, and so I would grow and need clothing, and his response to what that was, Oh, I see you need new clothes. Okay, all right, well you can get some new clothes, but when you do, tomorrow, I won't be here anymore because you're gonna have to come visit me in the poorhouse. I'll be in the poorhouse. A guilt and anxiety and but a huge elaborate story where I could stand outside and waved to him, but I couldn't talk to him through the window. I was three years old. I believed it completely. That's money noise. So you have money noise, you still have it no matter what, no matter what, I can't get rid of it. It's can't get rid of it. It always Tomorrow's the day. Catastrophe is coming. Catastrophe, catastrophe. Um So, so I have an anxiety disorder. So that says that's not the only stories of my anxiety disorder. But that was one of the things that I was anxious about growing up. And so when it came time to establish my own family, I became a severe workaholic. I mean severe, like I would get up, I would get up at five o'clock in the morning. I would struggle to get home by ten o'clock at night. A weekend off meant an eight hour work day on Saturday and Sunday. Those are my weekends off. Uh. And I did that for years and years and years and years, and it was in one respect wonderful because I took on responsibilities and had jobs that in turn is rarely get I saw everything there was to see on the on the medical and psychiatric landscape. I mean, I took care of and saw everything, and so it informed me medically and in my in terms of my judgment in a profound way. And so that was a very grateful for that. But man, it was brutal, and certainly it's it made everything else seem easy. Everything. I mean, I I can do a fourteen sixty hour day now, doesn't even even flinch't me at all. It's just that that was every day. How does somebody get ahold of it? Because a lot of us are constantly thinking about our bills and well, we owe what we're making. And you bought something and you want it, but then you bought it, and I have to figure out how to can fill the whole, like all that stuff. Any spending that even to this day, particularly about clothing of course that's where my dad really traumatized me, but any spending to this day, I feel not just regret but anxious and overwhelmed. And I have to I have to sort of go into a denial in order to in order to spend. And it's kind of weird. Um. But the main thing for me is I had to have a buffer. I had to have a savings. I had to have that. I could not live without that, the pile a savings. And yeah, yeah, enough enough that the catastrophe that I imagined every day, would you know cover that? And what about and your with your kids? You have triplets which sounds expensive, and your wife and all that, how does that work at home? It was? That was you know, that was incredible and very stressful and just amazing and um, and I think it's hard for me to tell exactly. It seems like they have three different um experiences. Yeah, my daughter seems very comfortable sort of just being making ends meet and you know, making sure she I mean, she's sensible, she's smart. Um. My other son, one of my sons, who went to law school, is becoming a workaholic right in front of my eyes. And the other one I think has lots of anxiety about these things, but doesn't worry about it so much. She does doesn't doesn't managing, isn't doesn't catastrophize, doesn't catachriphize. Why I did, being a quote unquote expert on so many matters, psychological and addiction and sex and relationships and all these things. What about the pressure for you to have a good relationship, for you to be a good parent, for your kids to not be doing you know, drugs and crazy like? What about that internal that noise? Like? You know, because a matchmaker, if they don't have a husband, they look like a loser, even though a lot of people don't have a husband, but there are matchmakers. Sore supposed to be an expert on that. There's let me tell you a longer story, but start with a shorter comment, which is I really didn't worry about that because I really I know that you're just for You're just a parent, no matter what you know. You're just reduced to parent, no matter what your expertise and everything else. And because I ran a drug treatment center for twenty years my um, I had some very strong sort of ideas about that that just were what they were good or bad. I mean, I I spent a lot of time telling parents of adolescent kids what they should do, and they rarely did it, and the kids died, and so that made me very very rigid and very very clear on things. And I when they are my kids about fourteen. I was like, look, you're gonna try stuff, but trust me, I will bring the hatchet down. I will bring you know if you if you develop a drug habit, I'll make sure you get arrested. I make sure you go to jail. I will create consequences because without the consequences, you will die. And I said, God forbid if you have this disease of addiction. Now, if you're using UM, I want you to know that every adverse event in adolescents, you find alcohol, whether it's fights or on one in pregnancy, or std S or eight on, what is sexual contact, whatever it is, you always found alcohol. So I know you're gonna try to drink, and Okay, good luck. I hope you hope you do well because you know I'll bring the acts down. But God help you if you go to a party where parents are serving you alcohol, because I will show up with the sheriff's I will drag those parents out. I'll be standing on the lawn laughing my ass off. So good luck. So that's what I so. That made them not popular to go to parties. So I had no alternative but to take that position. But but my own, because I really I saw the consequence of parents being friendly and not being being very very clear about substances. And of course my kids did you stuff and they continue to this day. Whatever they're adults, that's on them. But during adolescence, the the consequences are so profound I wasn't willing to take any risk about them. So my own adolescent story, though, it's kind of interesting. So you know, you you I've already talked about my anxiety sort and stuff. I actually don't have that right now because I went to therapy, and I want people to know the treatment works and my psychological health. I spent many years in therapy and my my psychiatric healthy mental health, my my anxiety sort all that is like in I want I would say cured, even not even in remission, to sort of cured. Uh. And I therapy works, treatment works. I encourage it in the in the strongest terms. It worked for me. I had a bad experience with it, however, when I was an adolescent. I was nineteen. I was at Damer's College in New England, and I developed panic attacks and I didn't know what was going on. I remember sort of wandering into the health clinics and I knew enough to think it was a psychological thing. So I went to the mental health services and they sent me back down to the health clinic. And at the time there was no adolescent health care. There was certainly woefully inadequate mental health services for adolescents. And the doctor at the the student health services for the college was sort of some retired almost farmer, it seemed like to me from the New England area. And I came in there and I was I was so miserable and so uncomfortable, and he looked at me like with disdain when you did take long walks in the woods, what's the matter with you? And I was like, I happ believe if that would work. I tried. It doesn't doesn't work in any event. Yeah, I was so poorly handled for a couple of years, frankly, that it made me interested in sort of providing information and services to ad lessons. It made me interest in mental health, you know, good mental health services. And I was on the road to be a cardiologist when I was a resident, but somebody offered me a job to moonlight in a psychiatric hospital and I found that so interesting, and that's what sent me down the road of spending most of my time in a psychiatric hospital after you. Oh so that's the beginning of the trajectory. Okay, So first of all, do you drink at all? Yeah? I do. I don't have the gene. I don't have the gene. I I you know it's not good for you, but I use it for sure. Do you do you think that it's actually not good for you at all? Like, and this sounds crazy, and you're a doctor, I don't. I don't believe sleep medication. I know it works, but it's I don't like it. I don't like the idea of it. I don't like the way I feel the next day. And I realized that's when I used to go to l A. If I took just vodka on the rocks, like not even that much, like four or five SIPs, I would fall asleep the flight. So so so if I can't sleep, I'll drink some vodka and alone, like not as if I'm drinking socially, just because it's better than sleeping. Problem with that anyway. So I drink alone. This is my therapist. So look, I have no issue with that whatsoever, especially if it works for you. However, I will say for other people listening. The problem with alcohol it is it doesn't do somnolence in some people. Actually, the people with the gene for alcoholism actually get stimulated by alcohol. They tend to go wake up, while the non alcoholic tends to go towards sleeps or somnolence. The problem is with alcohol after at four hours, it interferes with sleep latency. I agree, So you wake up four hours and can't go back to sleep, that's sort of what happens. So I agree, I I agree, that's so true. But yeah, but you don't feel like one drink a couple of times a week. You don't feel like that's a problem. I don't mean problematic, but not healthy. It's so hard to say. Look, I mean the the the the reason I say it's not healthy is all that data about one glass of wine a day is good for your cardiac health, blah blah blah. Yeah, but if you look at all cause mortality, the people are drinking wine every day die sooner and so. And we know that alcohol is a carcinogen, and so what's the threshold for a given individual. I I don't know. I'd sooner. I'd love to not drink alcohol just like it. If one thing that COVID has taught us, people should look very carefully at their philosophy of living. I feel very strongly people need to live and not freak out about their health all the time, and particularly end of life issues should be discussed at length. I hope COVID brings that to consciousness. In other words, do you ever want to be in a nursing home? Do you ever want to be on a breathing machine? And all these things should be discussed with your having. I never want to be in a nursing home. The average life expectancy after admission to a nursing home is six months from mail. I do not want to go in. Get me pailat of care. That's fine, it's all good. Don't string me out indefinitely in suspended animation with institutional support. That's insane. Not me. Well, it's funny that you say that, because I have a yoga teacher that I was saying, God, I just wish I would a lot of my friends stopped drinking. I wish I just didn't drink at all. And he said, I think people. As a yoga teacher, he said, I think people are underestimating joy in their life. Like everyone's talking about how rigid to be. Let's not do this make me I feel guilty. I'm like, oh god, you stop drinking, your skin, your eyes? What could I be doing? But then you get anxiety, which is worse than than just having a drink and not worry about it. Like, so it's a balance. I just got back from France and they are interested in living over there, God bless them. They are gathering and socializing and sell are they just into it and in good things in life? And we should all be thinking about not the duration of our life, but the quality of our life. And really, you know, when you get right down to it, it's other people that make life meaningful, and not just spending time with them. Of course it's very important, but what we can do for other people and engagement with other people, it's just we don't know what's the matter with us. We've got nuts and we've got we've totally gone nuts. Um. So your trajectory started in that regard. But how does fame come into it? And what does fame mean to you? Do you do you? Do you hate it? Do you secretly like it? Do you iss you had more. Do you wish you had less? What's your relationship to fame? I like it. It was an accident's complete accident. I started doing a weekly radio show in n four primarily because one Anthony Faucci. I was deep in the AIDS epidemic. I was taking care of AIDS patient's hand over fist and Anthony Faucci kept telling us young guys, we got to educate people who got to change the behavior of young people need to be reached the and I was asked to be on a radio show just by accident, and I was stunned that no one these these you know, there's one of those popular radio stations in Los Angeles. None of the audience seemed to have heard about this thing called AIDS or what it was, or it was unbelievable to me. So I to kind of keep coming back. And I came back one night a week from then on, thinking I was doing community service. And I did that for about ten years and then uh My, the the director of the station, decided to put it on five nights a week, which was very difficult for me at the time because that was a side hustle. Well, I wasn't making any money. It was it was completely free, and it was just it was just community service. And my wife got pregnant with triplets the same week they decided to do that non what's called non IVF not camp fertility campaign full on and we got pregny with triplets and she said, sorry, no more community service. If you're not doing diapers, you're out of the house. You're you're getting paid. So I went in hat in hand, like can I get us out? Can I please get paid? Started out of fifty dollars a show, and and that was that, and it's sort of one thing led to another. There's no blueprint, there was no intent. There was always just me kind of exploring things. And you know, all of a sudden, some TV producers came along and they're like, we're gonna do a TV show. Well, that's interesting, how do you do that? What does that even me? What you're talking about? But I'm willing to let's try that. And one thing, I do another and MTV and then uh, it's just it's just I just doors would open and I would try to figure out how to make them good, you know, how to make these worthwhile, how to make make sure the impact move things and what I thought was a good direction. So the collision of your father saying you need to make money your own work ethic, and then the curiosity and wanting to help people all just sort of came together converged, and I would even say there's another there's another component, which is always really enjoyed performing and speaking and being in front of all audiences. I like that. I enjoy that. I one of my favorite things now is to move an audience. I can like speaking in a room and taking a people and moving them and you know, helping them have an experience. That that's deeply meaningful to me too. Do you, um get recognized every day every time you're out? Is it is a lot. It is always delightful because I like people and I'm I'm an introvert, So for me to initiate a conversation with people is impossible. I can't do it. And so to have somebody walk up and initiate conversation, I'm grateful for it, um, But in terms of the intrusiveness of it, that that goes up and down depending on what I'm doing. But you can have you have a good relationship with it, you can go you can have a normal life. You're not like assaulted by it or anything. It's like, I frankly don't understand people that are resentful of it. I don't get it because people are always great, although I think these days with the with the weird world we live in now, and you know, they perceive you to be part of a team or not part of a team, which I am not. I'm completely independent, and so you'll get weird stuff that way now, which is a little bit a new thing. But other than that, no problem. You know, my day you didn't take a picture of yourself and be like, look how good I look. Look at me doing this, look at me doing that? Like forgetting even social media about posting your food. But I just mean, like, this is my great life. I'm so rich. I bought this thing, you know, and I I swear on everything I hope to be. I don't like doing social media. I find it to be a business necessary evil. But I still always feel when someone works on a social media team, oh, we'd love to see a picture of you in a bathing suit. You know, you skinny girl, and you're in good shape and your fifth and I just what about all this, what about how unhealthy? It is for young girls to see these unrealistic images. What about celebrities portraying their entire perfect life and then resenting the fact that we we get we get excited when they break up and we want all the details, and then they want privacy. What about all that to you? Pretty much everything about social media disgust me. I'm disgusted by it. I'm disgusted the exact same relationship with that you do, which is sort of a reality that if you're going to be doing things in the media, you require to do it, and I would rather not do it. I have I see on a regular basis how fake news is created out of things I say. I'll say one thing and it gets converted into something that's not even related to what I said, and then that becomes a story and then that's what people react to. It's disgusting, uh, In terms of projecting your life out into the world. I mean, Mozel took to the people that you know like doing that, and I'm when I was sick with covid, TikTok was my friend and I really enjoyed. I appreciated that people were making content that was interesting. That's different because that's expressing yourself in an entertaining way. If done probably I find that to be an outlet. I'm not on television now, and when I do a skit or that feels like you're acting or something because you're actually literally copying. So that feels a little different than look at how great my life is. So you and I feel the same way that there there is such a thing as content that is good and entertaining an informative, and I do believe that to be true. It's a hard it's a hard thing to navigate because you know, getting people to watch something and tweet, you know, make something viral usually is because it's outrageous or something, and necessarily that useful and informative. But be that as it may, there is a there is a piece of it that I feel good about, um, which is when people try to do something meaningful with it. I went down I went down rabbit holes when I was sick on you know, history and physics, and there's a lot of stuff there's kind of interesting, and I really I was really grateful for the people that created that stuff. But the average thing on Twitter, you know, when I read Twitter every morning with like my like half of my I need degreehead a version with one eye on to the side. I got what horror am I going to encounter today? And it really is not good for your soul. It's it's dirty. First all, with the exception of relief work, where I've literally done probably over a hundred I've done definitely over a hundred million dollars and really work worldwide and largely because of Twitter and Instagram. So for that reason, it's good. That's great. So cancelation is such a big topic, and I recently was saying that I feel that people who are I feel that the people who are falling the hardest are the people that are projecting perfection or goodness or I'm so rich. That's interesting. Those are the people that it's it's it's the worse for because they're just you just want to pull it down because you know that it's been such a bag of bullshit. So I wonder what you think about that. Well, I think that's a really interesting construct. I know, I have never had any other intent and media other than to do good and to make a difference in a positive direction. That is my Otherwise, I can't even imagine being in media if or just because it would Hey, it's me empty empty and you know, um so when I get canceled, I guess that's where it comes from. But I get it on a regular basis, and it's always it's always bewildering and astonishing to me. And it also it also um it when when people come after me, they always project sinister intent onto me, which is some of the most horrible feeling. Like one of the weird fantasies I had growing up was I hated the idea of being accused of something I hadn't committed. And now I'm getting used to that on a daily basis. That's that's all. They're always wrong. They're a million miles off who I am, what my intent is, and yet that goes down as the reality. But don't you think that when you are on the edge and almost in trouble, are like, you know, on the brink of cancelation for something, that that sort of makes you stronger because you're you figure out how to navigate things, and like you're not holding the steering wheel so tight that you're white knuckling, but you don't let go. You're kind of navigating the car and that makes you more strong and resilient as a business person, as a doctor. I think that's an interesting idea because I've been through so many ship storms and they've all been so far off. The truth is just amazing to me. Um It it still leaves a residual. Well, it teaches you how to keep going right, It teaches you how to keep going through adversity into you know, keep your clear on what your intent is and clear on your you know, we have to constantly update your priors. You have to make sure you're in the right zone and you're clear and what you're doing, and you're being honest. They're really honest and forthcoming. But it still leaves, uh, you know, leaves a residual that I don't like. And so maybe one day that kind of goes away with enough building and enough progress. I guess. Uh. So it does make you resilient. It does make you understand consistency and movement and pushing forward and uh, you know, knowing where your north stars are and being clear about who you are and what you what your intent is. So I guess that's good. I tell people, and I think it's very um comforting that my success is because of old school hard work. I mean, I'm I'm I'm smart, I'm nimble, I'm i'm I'm a chess player. But most of it's like I will work harder than anyone I you know, nothing can get me down. I get down, I get right back up. So I feel that that is hopeful in a world of filtering and bullshit for people to realize there is all of that. And that's all the shiny objects and the makeup, but the frosting, but the cake is the work. I'm a with you that that is a necessary requisite I I and not only is it requisite to moving forward and succeeding, it's an important part of it. You know, you have to. It's what makes some of the successes feel good. You know that you just you really worked. So, I mean, I my my work is I mean the amount of stuff I put in. My wife has just come to it. She's wanting around here right now. Just come to accept it because she just goes, oh yeah, Drew's alcoholic and filling them so and and believe me, I'm through therapy and whatnot. I'm a lot better than I was. But I do believe that that's a thing. However, people being critical of you and I saying that would say, well, you're two white people, you both came from a certain background, you had education, you're you're in a position to do that, which is true. However, lots of people are in that position and and don't do this and aren't success. You don't want to be um. But but that it is, that that piece is critical. It is a critical piece. And yeah, I'm grateful that for the things that set me up. I really am grateful. I don't take it for granted at all. But I could have very easily languished. I almost did. I would say, you know, when I was trying to decide what direction, it's very hard for me to make a choice. And I had lots of you know, I was contemplating becoming an opera singer at one point. I mean I had lots of things I would I was by choices when I was like night is Partable, I depressure and anxiety and stuff I was going through at that time. For me, one of the skill sets that I have found to be the most in addition to hard work and proper training and actually having a skill that's worthwhile and really developing that skill, but being able to synthesize your talents, you know what I mean, to pull in everything that you have and and deploy them in complex ways. I think that's something people don't talk about very much. You mean, the recipe putting it all all the ingredients together. I mean I mentioned I mentioned that I liked speaking to audiences. Well, that's what motivated me to kind of go, oh, radio, that'd be interesting. I kind of might enjoy that, and not going oh no, no, I'm a doctor. I won't do that, that's beneath me. I was willing to sort of integrate these things, and not only that, another piece that that for your audience they might appreciate. I was willing to go into environments that I shouldn't have been in in order to reach people. If I meant that I could do something good, like having a young doctor on a rock radio station that was outrageous. I was outrageous and and and I was twenty five years old, and I thought, that doesn't seem outrageous to me. And so as a result, you know, also, there's another piece in there for your audience, which is trust your instincts, particularly when you're young. I think young people have incredible instincts and they're constantly judged and sort of we we you know, think what they're doing is crazy or wrong or whatever. I'm one of those people, and I persevered, and it was wrong to judge my instincts at that time. Well, it's funny, you just said something that reminded me of something that happened to me recently. There was a girl working in my organization. And she's good. You just couldn't tell she's good. But she was working as an assistant and she sort of was crumbling, like she couldn't handle it. She wanted to leave. I wanted her to leave. I wanted her to quit and to fire her at the same time. But I liked her, and I thought she was loyal. And I was in between sleep and wake, and I said to myself, wait a second, let me just take that puzzle piece that keep trying to jam over here and create this new position for her where she really does just she's the person who interacts with people. She's the person who talks to you know, vendors or staff or clients and like process. And and I just switched up the formula and we literally I would have felt badly that she had to leave, and she would have felt like a failure and now she's thriving. It's about having people be in the best position to thrive. Someone could seem terrible and be amazing at something else, and just like us, I'm terrible at a talk show because I don't want to be confined. Yeah, this is free though, being like a talk show like coming up next and when we get back, I've done that. I know what that is. We're gonna as well. So sorry for my little monologue, but that just I want you reminded me of that. No, listen, there are two very important messages I think embedded in what you just said. One was a very important story about being a manager, about being a good boss. I mean, that was an amazing story, management story that I've never heard sort of crystallize that way, which is make sure you have create the right job for the right people. I mean, that's who I mean. Normally we're just I need this, I need that. I'm gonna cramming this. That's a brilliant insight. Number one. And then number two, and this is the more difficult part, which is if you're somebody who is struggling, there's and this is a this is a hard call, right do you just work harder and push through and learn resiliency and learn how to you know, thrive in an job that doesn't fit you, or do you taken an inventory of what you really want to do and go quickly look for that thing that fits better with who you are. I don't know the answer to that. Frankly, I I think each person should. Again, this is where the instincts come in. You have to really and instincts are hard to hear when you're anxious and you're overwhelmed and you've got different priorities in your life. Instincts are that that just that voice off in the distance that just goes that way, that's right, and just see if you can listen to that. But this is good for employers and employees because if they're communicating. As an employee, you can go say, Hi, how is this working? Am I doing that? You know? This is what I'm good at? This what I'm not great at. Be communicative as if you're getting into a relationship because you don't want to be at the wrong job and you don't want to hire someone that you know isn't going to go the distance. So to be able to have that back and forth communication, just like a relationship about what who I am, who I'm not. Everybody's not supposed to be good at everything and to be fair, but that I'm learning more and more about you as a manager and a boss. I mean not every boss wants that right, and so you have to kind of assess those things too. Fact true, it's challenging, man. And and I look, I feel bad for millennials right now. I mean, they are struggling, they're trying to find their way of trying to figure out their meaning and and there the noise that they live with is just unbelievable. It's unbelievable. It's a it's a lot of a lot of stimulation going, a lot of activation that is terrible. It's so much, it's too much activation. Um so what percentage do you think you're lucky or you've been lucky? You know that that's an interesting question. Luck always an opportunity, you know, luck slash opportunities that we're talking about, and uh, the only really lucky break I had. Let's see if there are other lucky things. I mean, I'm lucky to have been you know, raised when I was. I was lucky to have made a commitment to go into medical school sort of for that sort of fortunate more than lucky that that I made a good choice, lucky that the luck was I lived next to a radio station and somebody advised somebody brought my name up as something that could help with a community service show. That was lucky. Now I could have very easily gone, what do you taught? What? Feel me to do? What I don't? I can't do that. There's a million things that could have happened between me having that lucky break and and forget not having a radio career, not going up there that first night, and kind of exploring what's going on, So readiness, ability to explore instincts, all those things were on my side. And those are not locked, those are those are attributes. And so I was able to see this thing when I went up there the first night and go, oh my god, I need to keep coming back. This is important. These kids need to hear about this. Patients are dying hand over fist and they don't even know this. It was feeding me in terms of speaking to a large group, but also it was interesting. I was in this cultural environment where I was meeting rock stars every week, and it was just fascinating. It was like so different than everything else I was doing, and it sort of was a great outlet for me at the same time. Well, that sounds like luck because you're an introvert, but it doesn't mean you don't have a personality and you don't have a little bit of action and fun. People confuse those two because I'm in a relationship with an introvert, and believe it or not, I'm very insular. So even though I'm very opinionated and talk a lot, I don't ever go out like I literally it's it's it's almost a problem, Like I literally don't ever, I don't What is it? What is that I just don't. I don't. I make the plan and then I start to try to get out of the planet. I don't want to go. I'm never not in pajamas, I you know, shower before every podcast one of these because I just want to feel good. But I don't ever put makeup on or go out unless I'm being paid. I mean, like never, literally never. Is it? Is it just because you want to you just like being casual or you it's a hassle to interact or too much energy? What is it? I just don't. Yeah. Maybe I just don't understand, Like, what's the point I could be here? Yeah, unless it's with my daughter. Experiences with my daughter and being on for her, I could be here. I don't need to be there. Yeah, So there's no there there. So it's a big thing for me that I just was talking to Paul about, like, okay, should we we got invited on this trip? There fifteen year older than the ust if I just said this sentence, I said, if we can't like socially keep up with people that are fifteen years older than us, that we have a tra So you are a morcaholic? Will you keep you'll just keep going until the music stops? You'll, I mean, you don't. You don't seem to need to be relevant. You just liked to feed this machine. Yeah. I just like to do select to produce stuff. I like to make a difference. I I you know, I still practice medicine. I can't. I don't see an end in that. I think a lot about that all right now. By the way, uh So, when I was lying there sick with COVID, I had terrible COVID. I was six flex three months and I sat there thinking, well, First of all, I'm just I'm out, I'm checked out, I'm miserable, and the world is fine, So certainly I can check out and have fun and the world will be fine too. So I immediately thought, we need to travel, we need to go do stuff. And so that's sort of the mode I'm in right now. And as I get more and more into that, I think more and more about, well, how much more, how long? What? What's the relevance you know? And what the world the way it is? You know, old white male. They don't want you around. They really would like you to be gone, which is kind of which I have to sort of versions of that. One is what a that's harsh, and the other version is Jesus I have I have a society will lose something. I have an experience that is profound that really very few physicians even have anymore. I know a lot of things instinctively and clinically about the human experience that people don't know. They don't have that experience anymore, and I need to share that, and the world at large would lose something if I just stepped out. I like that. I like that. Do people ask about you in this way or it's always you talking about other people. Do you talk about yourself that often or not? Really? People do get interested in Yeah, sure, they get interested in what my background is and stuff. And I've got even more crazy stuff in my heritage. Um and I don't know. I I guess maybe now at this stage people get kind of interested in that because I had this happened to you with you know, who are you after all? So but I've never I've never withheld anything. I mean, I'm always wide open. Yeah, well you have. I guess you have to be to be able to have people to trust you to give their secrets. What about now? This is just two more questions. One is successful relationships. I talked to a lot of successful people in successful relationships, and I've heard from so many different people. The common ones that not common, the ones that jump up the page for me, is they give each other a long leash. They really very much have their own lives. They check in with each other during the day at one point, but not just like how is the day? Literally how are you? How's it going? Or whatever? What what do you say? What what are your what are your tools? That's all good and important, but there were long periods of time where I was so into my workaholism that that wasn't happening, and yet we survived it, right, Uh. And we're married thirty years together in warm farm or another thirty eight years, and still I wake up every day excited to be around this person. And there is I hope she feels the same way I think she does. Uh. And there is something about it. And people don't talk about this because it's almost impossible to talk about, which is bittedness of the people. You have to be Susan, You're still excited to be around me every day. She just laughed. So I don't know quite what that means. But but Susanne Summers said exactly what you just said. Suzanne Summer said the same thing you just said. It's about fit, and so did Ian Traeger. He said that say that we just started perfectly matched. And it reminds me of this is gonna sound weird, but it reminds me of recover free from addiction in the sense that it's one day at a time. It's like, I am just as happy and excited to be around this person as I was when we were in our twenties. And I'm assuming I'll feel that way. Tomorrow I may not, but it's today today, as we counts. So it's one day at a time, and you know, trying to be forever that that doesn't make sense to me. But today I'm excited today, I'm into it. Today. We have great process, we have great fun, and I would say that the biggest thing we have overcome somehow, uh is in you know, fighting so called, which we don't do very much of. We we know very clearly that if somebody wins, the relationship loses. So we see very we very quickly get off stuff We're not We're not interested in being right or wrong or better than that. It just just we both lose if our relationship loses if if somebody insists on being a certain way. So and then last question is of your career, not of your relationship, your rose and your thorn. Okay, So I'm just gonna go with my instincts on this because there I've had lots of really interesting high points. I mean, Celebrity Rehab was obviously an extraordinary experience, but but for me, the the biggest This is gonna sound weird, but um oh gosh, okay, I I had I have too high points. One was my residency. I loved being a resident. I loved the swashbuckling I was a chief resident. I taught general medicine. I love that. I love doing celebrity rehab. That was an extraordinary experience that we all shared together. That is just one of a kind. But in terms of sort of the highest, the most sort of the thing that jumps out for me was like season two of Love Line with me and Adam and Diane far where I felt like it was just joy every day and going in and doing this thing that it was so far removed from anything I imagine I would ever do. It was sort of this extraordinary like what the hell what am I doing? This is and and and I and I. It's funny. I felt connected to every member of our staff, every cameraman, every card holder, every makeup person, and when that ended, I was shocked like that, but that was our family. We were all, we were in love and it was you know, And that was my first experience with television that it's all just sort of it's here today, out tomorrow and everyone scatters and that's it. You ever see these people again. That was a shock to me. So that was high low uh, what comes to mind? You know, these ship storms of people pulled me into the most recent one where I was telling people to listen to the CDC and let Dr Faucci be or north Star and calm down and don't listen to the press. That was converted into fake news where I was somehow denying COVID and it just became this terrible ship storm that I'm still having trouble shaking. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry that sucks, but this too, sial pass I suppose. And then this was a just bonus question because I thought of it while you were talking. Should celebrities be with other celebrities or is it to peacocks in the relationship. It's too much because it's it's a great question, and it's it's certainly evidence suggests that that doesn't work great, you know. Uh, And the other thing I worry you can maybe comment about this. It seems like whenever reality cameras get into a relationship that the ship goes down. I don't know what it is. The only two couple I can point out is Assie and Sharon that survived reality cameras. You know, everybody else has real trouble. Well, There's two parts to it. One is that a lot of times they get into it because things are going bad, like Camille and Kelsey. Kelsey Grahamer kind of gave that to her as like a send off, and that happens sometimes, meaning, you know, I don't know that Yolanda and her husband weren't having some issues before. Like somebody needs to do that to feel something, because if somebody is successful and has some money, I cannot imagine why they would want to enter into that at that low pay grade just for relevance, because that's a nightmare. So I was broke. I had eight thousands to my name when I went on the house, so there was really my rent was, you know, in the two thousands makes sense, It makes yeah. So I don't know. I don't know which comes for us, the chicken of the e um. But this was so interesting. I'm so excited because I just know about all these people, but I just know the headline, and now to actually get to speak to you, it's fascinating and interesting and I'm really grateful for you given me your time, and I appreciate I really appreciate the interview and the time, and more importantly, I hope we by sharing our stories, we're helping other people. I if there's I'd be happy to buy the way if you have any if your world has any follow on questions or I'd actually be interested because I wonder how this is received and in a feedback or refinement of things we're saying. I'm open to it. I love that. Okay production, And there's one of the things I would say for people who I get interviewed occasionally by sort of in this kind of vein by you know, success in business and management stuff, and I and I always I got to a realization that there's one other feature we have not talked about here that I think it's a critical piece of all of this, which is you must care. You must care about what you are doing, whether you're a boss or a manager, or a doctor or going to media. The word care, for me has just developed a bigger meaning. It's interesting Heidegger had that is sort of a central feature. I know Hyder was a Nazi, I got it, but but but his philosophy was caring as a central feature, and it was sort of a technical term. But I have been thinking about it for years since I read his stuff, and I do think that that really caring deeply, and that's usually about other people and about the impact of what you're doing and the quality and all that stuff. I think that's an important word to keep top of mind. I like that, and it's so true. It's simple. It's the simplest things caring, and it makes you have more integrity and be doing things for the right reasons. That's right, exactly right. Oh well, Bethanie. One of the thing I was supposed promote my book, Oh promote, Oh yeah, thanks. I wrote it with my daughter. Was really fun. It's really cool. How old does she? So? What does it mean? It doesn't have to be awkward, it's it's how it's for fourteen to eighteen year old, fourteen to twenty year olds really and how to navigate difficult topics and relationships. It's for parents also to help young people sort of understand these things. We we you know, it sort of starts with sex and drugs and no kind of thing, but really we want we talked about relationships overall and how to make them healthy. Amazing, Have an incredible day and tell your wife, I said alone, thanks matting me talk to him. That was so great. What a great nice man, and I'm interested in his book. It doesn't have to be awkward that he wrote with his daughter. I just love. Can I just tell you the truth. I know Doctor Drew because I didn't show years ago, and obviously I know about love Line, and I know from Celebrity Rehab. I know Dr Drew. Last night, for some reason, I thought I was interviewing Dr phil and then when I started reading last night, I'm like, wait, this isn't Dr Philips Doctor Drew, And I got so excited just to like switch lanes in my mind and hear about Dr Drew. Maybe we will have Dr phill on. But uh, I just was so pleasantly surprised because I know him, but I don't know him. All these people we think we know because we read about them, we see pictures of them, were aware of them as media personalities, but you don't really get a sense of the fact that that person grew up in like a depression era type upbringing and worked so hard and is a legitimate doctor and wants to help people and it's so nice and I don't know. I just thought that was a really surprising, incredible conversation. Thank you so much for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Please ask questions because we're thinking about answering business questions at the beginning of this podcast, because I'm getting so many of them, um, and I want to start answering them. And just thank you, appreciate you. M