On what women want (from clothes) and building a happy brand.
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Let's talk about TikTok Okay, TikTok is blatant copycatting. So I like TikTok and I feel awkward when someone's like to do this. It's trending, do a duet Lizzo e berries on ice coconut water, which is called nature cereal, and now we're also as to copy it. And so my social media girl was like, do something with your coffee and say just fucking try it, because I guess somebody had said just sucking try it. I think it might have been Lizzo also, So I don't I don't know. I just I don't have a copy. I don't like copying. And I said it before about Molly since who I love and she's so sweet. I've laughed so hard at some of the things she's done, and she's been copying someone else. But when you go to do stand up, for example, you would never use someone else's jokes. So I'm sort of confused by it. And it's just so funny because TikTok, it's just it feels a little disingenuous, like I just feel weird there. I was like, Hi, take some blueberry cereal cyanide eyelashes and Mscara mix it in a blender and you have COVID cocktail. Like it's just I don't understand. Everyone's just making like mash oreos. Mix them in a mug, blow up your microwave and it's a mud kick. Like it's just very over the top, like Saccarin e sweet and I like couples dancing together. But it's started become this place of like dorky mom comedy, which I love. It's every teenager rolling their eyes and every mom like playing you know, rappers delight on ten and music and embarrassing their kid or scrubbing the kitchen. I like it because it's a release from COVID and that's nice. But it's just I guess I'm just old. I guess I'm just old. I don't know, it's just weird for me. Like today, the girl who was doing my social I did this thing in the backyard with the song these Joset Loyal, and I just was in a dress because I was made up already, and so I started swing in the hose of this hose Loyal, which I thought was funny, Like that's clever, it's original, it's dumb. I thought of it outside and then the social person said to me, so good morning. We can post this today on TikTok with something like loyalty is everything. I guess because the hose, this hose isn't loyal. But like okay, or hosing down the place or thirsty Thursday, that makes me uncomfortable, Like I don't like anything of hosing down the place. I'm so literal. Like the point is, it feels so kitchy. It's like back in my day when I used to produce events and it was like, let's do my teeny bar and have a cigar roller person, but like let's do a sacateini and let's do a Pinka tini and let's do everything a teeny. I just like O cringe worthy. Everyone's like copying teeny and I know it sounds crazy, but I just don't like like things. I like original things. I don't like things that are things. Oh no, it's a thing right now. I'll say once in a while, mood, But if it's the dog like drooling, and I cringe when I even do it. But what are those things like woke or mood or work or lurk or luke or luke Luke and Elida Luke. What's a word a vibe? But like things can be a vibe, like that's yes, But if you say dope, that's dope. Like what I know someone like very waspy and white who wears Valentino, Who's like, no, it's dope. I'm like, what the fuck do you know? Whoever first said dope was not wearing Valentino. That can promise you that I like original things. You make it a fun like yas quinn, yas honey. We had a hysterical photographer that came to shoot me last week and she was really funny and we did enjoy her. For some reason. She up going yes, yes, girl, yes, like two seconds away from saying work it, you better work it girl. Gucci cover girl fashion, and I was like, I am not a cover girl. I don't look like somebody in the Guccia and I find myself fairly attractive in makeup. I could look good. I could definitely like lock it down. But like once, I was like, girl, you are professional. Like everyone is like a character of themselves now with all this stuff that they're saying, right, what are other ones? Um? Pre nups? Pre nups is what Hi, are you. You're engaged, so maybe this is a personal matter you want to discuss it another time. That was your inside voice. This is outside, we're outside now, we're outside now, so I guess, yeah, so you're getting married and we will talk about prenups an other day. Let's talk about prenups. But I didn't know that. The kids were saying that's dope and pre nups. Like, I don't know, am I missing something? I feel like anybody else have any issues they want to talk about in their personal life. That was really funny. She's like prenups. I'm like, okay, while we're at it, menopause. I just walked into the wrong room. I'm sorry, this is the wrong classroom. I'm sorry. I think you just opened the road. Yeah, this is this is at cohome economics. You're supposed to be in algebra two doors to the left. Okay, we're talking about lingo. That is derivative. But you have a personal matter that we should discuss. And I have a name of a good therapist also who helps me along the way. That was hysterical. That made me laugh. I was since a prenups. I'm like, m mmm, hi, we're in a different class at this time. UM, well, anyone, I know I don't make sense, but I think I do make sense. But it doesn't really matter. What's the difference. It's a rant. Let me know what you think, please, because you guys have been loving these rants, so you know, I just keep freewheeling. My guest today is Doug Wood, CEO of Tommy Bahama, famous for casual men's wear but also women's clothing and restaurants. He joined the company in two thousand one, is chief operating officer CEOO before becoming the president during the two thousand eight recession, and then became the chief executive officer CEO just a few years later. Today we talk about the challenges of running a company need during a crisis, the importance of pivoting your company with the times while staying true to your brand, and how gut instincts sometimes trump data. It's a great episode that I think you're going to love. I think the part about him having to deal with a recession being in the retail apparel and restaurant business is really valuable. I think the fact that it's a pandemic and he's also dealing in a retail hospitality space it's just someone to listen to who had to decide how to turn a whole ship. You know, it's more than a billion dollar business. He had to shift. So we've had to do that in our smaller businesses, startups or just at home businesses or at work, and it's good to hear someone who's done it in a major way with a lot of people watching, with a lot of pressure. That can help even uh small entrepreneurs. How are you great? So are you in Florida? I see a palm tree? Is that? Where are your office is? This is the worldwide headquarters of Tommy Bahama is in Seattle, Washington. Is that fair that you don't get to be in Naples or like drinking a pina colada on the beach of the Gulf Coast. It's actually probably the best thing for us because it allows you to dream of warm, sunny places as you're in the rain. It really inspires great creative because we can't be there, so boy do we dream about being there? Wait, so it really inspires the fantasy life that Tommy Bahama is the threat of tom Bahamas. Okay, yeah, because you really can't go outside most of the time because it's cold and wet, and so we think about it a lot. You know, Uh, when it's not COVID, we do get out in the field a lot. So how many people does the brand Tommy Bahama employ I don't mean, you know, people actually manufacturing clothes, etcetera. But the internal brand, our employee base has fluctuated a little bit because of two thousand twenty in total right now, and say we were about probably somewhere we're between hundred or three thousand employees, which is down from where we were like a year ago. Um, but you know, it has a lot to do with having a hundred and sixty stores and fifteen restaurants and now seven Marlin bars, so a lot of people in the field, and we're all over the United States, and here in Seattle, I think we employed probably somewhere close to probably people. So in corporate it's but you're talking about restaurants and stores, etcetera. Okay, so the Tommy Bahama brand is effectively relax. It's like relax, casual, don't take yourself too seriously, just chill. Is that what it is? Yeah? I mean, we tried to create an exceptional island lifestyle that inspires you to relax and that is our mission, especially today as people are a lot more casual. We actually feel like we're in such a great spot. People are coming to us. And also we're a happy brand. We try to lean into the idea that hey, let's have some fun and let's not take each other so seriously. Well, it's a fun environment and fun place to work. Who has been the target audience? How is that shifting? Who makes up most of your customer? I've been with the company now twenty years. Company has been a business for twenty eight years, and when I came to the company, we were a very min centric brand that was targeted at basically our wholesale customers. And really, you know, this idea of hey, we're at this guest who's probably forty and up, and that has fundamentally changed, and it's something that we have done consciously. I'm absolutely have retooled the company so that we're trying to appeal to her and start to become her brand. And that's in everything that we do, and it's you know, retooling our women's apparel, swimwear, food and beverage. We still believe our target is forty enough, but I want to Halo down to thirty five. You've been there for twenty years of time in Bahama. You've taken it from what I guess was two hundred million dollars a year when you got there, and what is it now two thousand and nineteen. I think we have a six eighty million dollar number. Okay, you know we're like one point three billion dollars as a brand. Wow. So some of the things that you've talked about are sort of who are you targeting and how are you targeting them? And you know, you could say you want to have twenty year olds in the brand and seventy year olds, but you have a target and why do we have a target? Because if you try to please everybody, you end up pleasing nobody. You have to know who you're talking to and how you're talking to them. So you were describing that you're forty plus brand, and you know, I'm pretty much I've been like eighteen to forty nine. Obviously I skew older and I have people's kids and daughters, but but I haven't educated, you know, successful customer. And people have said to me, why don't you do skinny guy? Which is because I'm talking to women doesn't mean that I don't have their husbands. And I've I've been on the cover of Forbes, so I have a lot of business people and like I said, women's husband. But I am a brand that is about practical solutions for women. My new brand, Bethany is about elevated solutions for women, and I'm talking to women. You've been talking to men living that leisurely Tommy Bahama lifestyle. Now you're bringing in women because obviously women are the purchasers of the household, and you even have a language for that. You know, when we're on HS and we talked about her, what does she want, what is she wearing, what is she like? And you talked about her, and you also talked about your customer as a guest. So for people building brands like you have to figure out who you're talking to, you, how you're talking to them, what the language is. And there's a whole language and a culture in a business, even if it's the smallest business of three people, you still have to understand what the language is. So you, Douglas, you have on the average of forty year old plus customer you want to get to thirty five. Do you talk about her, and you talk about your customer as guests. So how do you make that shift? How are you speaking to people? How are you making these changes a as a result of the pandemic, but not really just that, just as a business person? How do you make these big decisions that small business owners can really respond to and learn from. I'll break it down in a couple of ways, and i'll answer the guest question. First, we got into restaurants really early when the brand started. Our first restaurant open in nine in Naples, Florida. But it had such a profound impact on our culture because you know, with customers, you're trying to sell something to people. When you have a guest, you invite your guests into your failing and you describe a culture. Every business needs a culture, culture, and we have a super strong culture around. Let's figure out what our guests needs, how they want to interact with us, and then let's make that happen, and how can we exceed their expectation When you have a brand like Tommy Bahama, you said it, most people know us for men's Hawaiian shirts, a very thin awareness of the brand. I know and everybody knows me as skinny Girl, which I don't own the cocktail portion anymore. I own the rest of the entire brand. But everyone knows me for the margarita and for being a train wreck on the housewife. So when you guys are building brands or business is important. How you start is sort of how you end up. And it's hard to get away from that. You know, Kentucky Fried Chicken is KFC. It's hard to get away from Kentucky Fried Chicken, which is still how I see it. You could do ten billion dollars in LAMB shares and you're known for the Hawaiian shirts and you're known for men, and you know what percentage of your customers women now about of our product, right, So he's still known as the man's company and you're trying to break out. Yeah, and I don't run away from the Hawaiian shirt thing. It's crazy from a pr standpoint, Brutal marks can walk off a plane wearing a Hawaiian shirt and the cat will say, Bruno Mars were in time, Bahama, And I'll look at this, that's not time Obama. You know if that happened every single day, And so I love that. I mean, think about the number of companies that aren't known for anything, and that's actually been part of our strategy. Hey, I'm always going to have really wonderful tropical inspired where However, that is such a small part of our business. So when you come to us, I'm gonna have the best damn Hawaiian shirt you've ever seen in the selection you want, that's just part of our DNA. This is a great question in relationships and in business. What do women want? And how do you target women? Right now? In the world, so many things are changing, conversations are changing, social consciousness is real. What do women want right now? Overall? We did focus groups probably five years ago, all over the country and I would sit in on these groups of men, women, men that bought our products, men who didn't buy our product, women who bought our women who didn't buy a product, and what came at which just astonished me with on the on the female side was age groups thirty five to sixty five. Every woman wanted to basically be appropriate for their age. They want to be sexy, They definitely want to be on trend in style, very fashionable. But they also had this awareness of Hey, I'm I'm forty and I need to start dressing like this. And for us, that right away centered us on this idea that, Okay, if we're really targeting a forty year old, we better have a fit model that's a forty year old and not a twenty year old, okay, because a six is not a six. And so we really focused it on fit and and wanted to make sure that she knows that when she comes to us, not only do we have great quality, we have great fit. But the third thing we had to do is you better be on trend. You better be focused on what you have in the store is what's going on out there in the market a place. So it's still got to be easy, breezy Timmy Bahama, but you better see those elements that you see on trend in the marketplace. That's like an HSN customer to hs N has a similar demo to you. If you ever want to learn something, learn about hs N. It's a world we can I've sold twenty five thou pairs of sunglasses in a few hours recently. I mean, think about that, it's crazy, and they think about what she wants and focus groups also, and that brings me to ask you about data versus gut instant because we all have done so many focus groups and research that still don't tell the true picture. When we realized that the women's business was going to have to be, you know, our biggest shift, we completely reorganized and change the complexity of our business. So, in other words, I brought women in to run the business and run the product side of our business. And so from a gut standpoint, I had to get you know, it's opposed to way the company started with really three really smart men'swear guys. We are really driven from women right now. So I will say that I've got lots of access to data and sometimes it affects what we're doing. And then it's just basically really smart product and marketing people that see, wow, we have a green field here of opportunity. Yeah, I know, I can go get data. Let's not ignore what's right in front of us right now. Sometimes people don't know what they want until they see it. Like relationships too, Sometimes people don't know that they would want that type of person until they meet that type of person who's not their quote unquote type. So if you're an entrepreneur, you need to go with your gut. In addition to listening, to research and listening to smart people around you who know what they're talking about. I completely agree. You know, the world is trying to tell you that it's only about data, and big data is a huge part analytics of driving a lot of decisions now, especially in the world of passion and food. Uh, it's really just having talent surrounding you and listen to them and once again you know what your brand stands for and say, hey, you know, that's a really great idea with somebody else, but for us, we're going to keep it right here. Brands have to adhere to the line. You could color outside the lines sometimes, but to take some chances, I don't mean doing two chances. But you have to know your brand. You have to be able to say it in a sentence, in an elevator pitch, and you have to adhere to it because sometimes the shiny objects look good and the money looks good and opportunities look good, but then you're kind of getting off the road and you get so lost and you have to stick to your brand. I've seen designers that I know and I know what their brand DNA is, and then they've just taken the money, the change off the floor and doing different licenses and it looks cheap, and you can tell that it's just like an aberration from what they normally do. So after the pandemic, Well, first of all, if you didn't have e commerce, you'd be in big trouble, right, yeah, I mean uh. I was president of the company during the eight o nine recession, and we watched our business just get hammered overnight after Lehman went down. Our businesses down and co sale is contracting. It was so scary during that time period. But we had just launched e commerce in October of oh seven, and so as I'm watching this business contract down, I'm watching e commerce take off like a rocket ship. At that point, we were about setale selling the North Stroom's and specially stores, and we're about direct, but we were watching the commerce. Today we're direct and about hotel. You mean that yourself is are a customer buying directly from you versus buying from Nordstrom that you've sold to Nordstrom? Right? And if I go online and I google my name, other brands have taken up my Google search words because they want you to buy it through them. So I have been screwing myself because I haven't had my online marketplace and I'm just you know, I'm a small business. We're doing a hundred million dollars in business, but I'm still a small business and still relatively new, and I have to shift this way because you want people buying directly from you. You capture their data, you know who they are, even if it's on a small scale. And I don't want people taking my Google Search terms of buying from somewhere else. You want that as a support system, but you want to get people direct and it's so impactful, especially at a time where stores are shut, restaurants are shut, and the only way people are able to interact with you is online, and so you better be crystal clear on your messaging during that time period so that people can still see, hey, uh, we're relevant. And there was a huge shift that during COVID, where we have a terrific women's dress business, a terrific women's swimwear business, but not during COVID. During COVID those two categories, but you know who's buying new swimwear because you can't go anywhere but your backyard. What's booming right now is cover ups and we're locked and loaded from cover ups because we talked about it last summer. It's like, hey, we come out of this, every woman in America is going to be buying swimwear. I mean, and this is the truth of COVID. We either got bigger or smaller. Nobody says the same, okay, and so everybody's gonna be buying clothes to go somewhere. Business has had to decide and still have to decide. Now you're still in a holding pattern. So what do you do? Do you get stunned, do you have anxiety, do you become stunted, or do you you know, pick yourself up from your bootstraps and figure it out, which is what big companies do. And that's the responsibility was on you. I mean, you have to delegate to everybody else what the hell is going to go on? I mean, I'm sure you're stressed out beyond belief in the beginning, and so now you're still shifting right If anything, During COVID, you know, all business were the same. We were faced with the biggest business problems all at once. We had personnel problems, we had loss of sales. All of a sudden, you're forced with trying to predict not just what's going to happen today, but what's going to happen in nine to twelve months. Because a company like ours, we plan our inventories six to nine months in the future. We have to get it on order. And so you're you've got hundreds of millions of dollars that you're having to bet what's going to happen project, and everyone knows. Nobody could tell you. And so when you were asking the question about, hey, trust your gut, you know, this is where experience came in huge because of what I saw happen in O eight o nine, because this was a giant recession in my opinion, that you had to shift, you had to change the way you were going to be doing things, and we made huge beads that are going to pay off just because, like I said, I'm very bullish. On the other side, I think that our guests, especially still has money. I think that they're going to come out of this not just in a good place. They're hungry for their lives back, and they're going to travel and people are going to get together. People are going to be busting out. So plan your businesses accordingly, and also your saying, See, I always say that the mistakes that I made back then, and when you started there, you were still running a major company. So you don't want to make a lot of mistakes in oh eight and oh nine. But the mistakes that you make when you're starting out are helpful and really guide you and educate you on when the stakes are bigger later. So because of all this institutional knowledge, and that's why I always say, whatever job you have, it could have nothing to do with what you're doing. Now. You've had many you were boeing, you've been and sell your company that you've been in very many different businesses. The point is you never know where that's going to take you, and have the knowledge from a path business is going to help you. When younger kids are saying, oh, we're never gonna need this, I don't need to learn that we're never gonna need this, or people are in some weird job where they don't feel like they should be there. I always say everything is your business. Do everything to the best of your ability, because the mistakes, the learning, uh experiences you have will pay off later when you really bulls eye where you need to be. Because right now, Douglas is talking about billions of dollars of business like you have major decisions to make, and all of the knowledge from Boeing and from your childhood and from businesses, and from your life and your marriage come into play now in a pandemic when people are trying to bet on what's going to happen, And the overall rule and advice is to take a minute, collect yourself, be stuck for a second, and then decide how are you going to take that football into the end zone? Absolutely? You know. The other thing, Bethany, that I can't say this enough is look, Tai Bahama is owned by a very strong holding company, Oxford. It into the trees. First day that this happened, we sat down and we talked about, Hey, this is a cash game. We got to make sure that we have the money to get through to the other side, and we got to conserve cash just as important, Hey, you better have a brand on the other side. So how you treat your brand during the pandemic. You have to protect the realm when it's good, when it's bad. It's like a relationship. It goes through ebbs and flows. It gets stressful, and that if you're true entrepreneur whether you work within a corporate structure or you're running your own business, you have to understand that number one is hard work. Number one is hard work. Look at the board, be strategic, Cooler minds prevail. I swept the small stuff, but when the big stuff happened, I'm organized, collected, And when a crisis happens, I can you know rally. And that's really important if you're thinking about running a brand, or getting into business or having a serious, high pressure job. And well, what is the most challenging part of running a business for you? If I know what mine is, but I'll tell you mine after. It's people. I mean, it's actually making sure that you have the best people and managing people. Now, isn't it to pay? Managing people is challenging to me. Yeah, I actually I love teams. I mean that's probably how I got in doing this in the first place. I love assembling a team knowing that people come with strengths, people come with weaknesses. Do you run a company like Tommy Bahama. You've got a lot of plates that are spinning, and you can't keep them spinning yourself, and so you better damn well go out and get the very best people that hey, we're all on the same page. So making sure that you have a clear mission, the clear vision values that we all make decisions by. Once the rocket ship starts to fly, you're building a while it's flying, and it's hard to stop down, like okay, right now, I have to get my team together and assemble one because you're already in motion. So it's hard to stop down. And I've found that I like find people along the way, which is not the best easiest way to do it, Like you have to sort of take the breath to get it all together, otherwise you're sort of piecemealing it. And then you need to understand how to delegate to these people so they can exitu. You need to be organized. So managing people and running a business is challenging in that regard because if you're a true entrepreneur like I am, and you work within a corporate structure, I'm more like, let's go do that, let's do this, let's do that. It's hard to stop down and be like, Okay, how do I be corporate about this? You know, and things are always moving, Like I was going to ask you how you're how you're keeping up with the young kids you know TikTok, the younger generation. You're right, there's a huge divide with what's going on right now. And I won't say that I'm keeping up with TikTok. I'm trying to learn about TikTok. And you know, a really smart person about three years said something to me and I it's just stuck. And it's like, hey, Doug, you may be talking to forty in uh, but they're living in the eighteen the thirty year old world. But young Tiktoker's reach out to me because their mothers are big fans of mine and say to them, do what she did. So I have this weird universe where I'm speaking to eighteen year olds and fifty year olds. So it matters, and it matters in your stores, I guess in restaurants because they're coming in with their moms and dad. So it's like an interesting world where you have to just be aware that's not your target audience. But you have to be aware in whatever business and understand that change is happening whether you want it or not, and so you better be adapting your business practices. And right now that's really getting your business focused on digital and social. But making sure that you're putting those checkpoints in place so that, as you said earlier, hey, you don't lose control of your brand. And I'll tell you that's one of the hardest things to do right now, because people want to be involved with your brand every second of the day a and at the same time, you're trying to keep it within some level of hey, this is what we're about, but they're making it their own, and you've got to allow that creativity and allow people to make it their own. But as their brand message, you're basically putting out, hey, we're keeping it here. It's wonderful some of them, Bethany. I mean the videos that are made about your your brand that you have nothing to do with, you know, songs or songs about Tommy bohamma, I have nothing to do with those. All of a sudden, somebody saying, if you've heard this song, it's it's out the internet right now. Oh my god, here you kidne me and you have to listen to that. People have to listen to that because you will shift and pivot according to the temperature and the weather outside. You can't be too stuck to your own idea where you're not flexible. You want to know what the core nucleus of your brand is, but you have to look at what's going on outside and decide whether you know that could be a great idea. I mean, Stacy's pea Chips, I talk about it all the time, was a sandwich store and there left over bread was what became the pea chips. So you had to shift and go where the sharre because that was where they ended up making their money. You can't just say, no, we're just sandwiches. We don't care about the fact that we're selling more peda chips. You have to go, you know, go with that flow. Well, the last question I want to ask you is, um, what is the most lucrative part of your business? Well, right now it's still the men's and women's apparel. Apparel the core of our businesses fashion, and then it goes into channels of how do we get that message out? And now it's e commerce And we had this new concept methony because we did restaurants and we did big restaurant and they're successful and they do a great job from not just elevating the brand but also selling the product in the store. Well, even if you don't make as much money on that. It's a flagship store advertising the lifestyle, and people need to understand that it's not always about making the most money. Like I made sure that I took less money on house Wets one season, but was allowed to do Shark Tank because Shark Tank allows me to broaden my brand. So that's an example of looking at the bigger picture. The first season of Housewives, I took basically no money in exchange for them not taking any of my future earnings. Meaning you make small decisions to affect the larger picture. So your restaurants are commercials. Also in addition to selling, you're not just selling food and beverage, just selling a lifestyle and experience, which is what reflects the wh for for us, the restaurants do three things. First of all, people come in expecting it to be Margaritaville and they find out it's much better, and so I have executive chef and every one of our restaurants. Second thing, uh, you know online someone's been six minutes with me and a retail store, they might spend fourteen minutes. When I have a restaurant with a retail store, I get them for an hour and a half and so I'm able to basically show them the entire brand. And then I have restaurants in really great locations Florida, Arizona, California, Hawaii, and you know, when you are in our restaurant, it takes you to an emotional place and usually you're with many loved ones and that hey, that's a special night. It's also the number one place where I'm able to gather names so I can market to you later, which is also a big piece of what we do. Know. That's that's a big note for people to be collecting data. You want to capture people. I've made not this mistake, but I haven't been so savvy about that. And you have to know what you know don't know, and that's not my greatest strength. And you have to be capturing data. Basically, you have to be looking at the whole board. And I guess the takeaway is that there are many different ways to do business and many different reasons to do business, and you have to sort of let it live and breathe. And truthfully, your whole brand is about relaxing. And I do feel that the best ideas come when you're a little bit relaxed, not in such a high pressure cooker. Sometimes you have to sit back and look at the whole board. Well, you've done an amazing job. You've built a great brand that keeps thriving. Wish you the best with the brand. Thank you every day. Fine. So that was the CEO of Tommy Bahama, which is undeniably a strong, strong brand that has been known for the relaxed man. And to have to shift and pivot to be marketed to women is no small feet. And I have different types of people on here to illustrate how different businesses function and operate, and how business leaders make decisions during times of stress, but also how not everything is about money, how sometimes you have to make difficult decisions and take chances and shift your business based on the times. And you can find inspiration and practical solution tactics in so many different places. So just listen to these entrepreneurs. They may not have businesses like you, they may not have had a background like you, and they may not be dealing with anything that's similar to what you're dealing with, but all business is really the same, and all these decisions can work on a small or a larger scale, and I try to kind of give you as much takeaway as possible and bring it all back to you because it doesn't matter someone selling Hawaiian shirt or toothpaste. It's still about business and it still could affect you and your business and your personal life. So that's sort of why I have many different types of people on here, with many different stories of institutional knowledge. And you could have started working at a T and T and at Boeing and end up at a relaxed lifestyle brand and still have a lot of important information to impart. Just Be is hosted an executive produced by me Bethany Frankel. Just Be as a production of The Real Productions and I Heart Radio. Our managing producer is Fiona Smith and our DO Stephanie Stender. Our EP is Morgen Levoy. To catch more moments from the show, follow us on Instagram and just Be with Bethani