All anybody talks about is cancel culture. Everybody talks about it. It's Judge. Judy did a whole thing on how it's the devil that you can't really speak your mind anymore, you can't really say anything anymore. So then people are being watered down versions of themselves. Now people are being you know, sanitized versions of themselves. Where is the line Christie Tagan got? You know, all of these bullying tactics have been unearthed with her, from Avril Levine to Courtney's stought in Lindsay Lohan, this nine year old girl endless, so you know, and everyone's sitting here waiting for is this person canceled? And is there like a jury? Is there like a supreme court of cancelation? When do you know you're canceled? So well, I'd like to speak to a supervisor and I want to know your cancelation policy. I want to understand what is the cancelation policy. When you book a trip going somewhere, you know what the cancelation policy is. Whenever I tell my assistance book the air fair book, the plane book, the hotel, but please let me know that there's a cancelation policy. Make sure there's a cancelation policy. Can I get my money back? I want to know the cancelation policy. So I want to know the cancelation policy for the entertainment industry and for Hollywood. Let's make some terms. Is saying something outwardly blatantly racist like Roseanne Barr did? That means just instant cancelation. Was Matt Lower canceled? Is he going to be uncancelled because of something he'll do? Because Brian Williams had that issue where he uh like embellished a new story, but he's been uncancelled. He has the Eleventh Hour at night? Is Bill O'Reilly totally canceled? It's over, We're never seeing him again. Is Donald Trump canceled? Because some people don't feel that he's canceled, but some people feel that he is canceled. So who's canceled? Who's not canceled? Who decides? When? Do we know? Officially? Is Nick Cannon canceled or did he get uncanceled? Did he get Is there a loophole in the cancelation policy? So is there a maya copa? Is there are pennance? Can you do community service to get uncanceled? Michael Vick years ago, I think was like dogs were killing each other in dog fights and he was canceled. But because he's a good football player, I believe he was uncancelled. And I believe he still plays football, maybe not at the same level. Professional athletes have been accused of terrible things Tiger Woods years ago. Memory, remember he lost so many endorsement deals. Was he uncanceled? Because he's now like sort of is he back? Does he have endorsement deals again? So, because Christy Tikam was taken out of Target, Bloomingdale's and mazes, is she canceled or is she just like on a time out? And I'd like to know. Can people come in and be like, Hi, do you have a cancelation because I'd like to fill out fill in that slot. I'm a dealist, celebrity, and I'd like to move myself up to a seat. Call me if there's a cancelation, because you might have some room, you know what I mean. If there's a reservation and you're trying to get it, we'll call you there's a cancelation. So just let us know when someone's canceled and if someone else can fill in their cancelation reservation. So Okay, I need you audience for this. I really do we need to message me. I need to hear about this. I would like you to tell me. Ay, if there should be a cancelation board, a very varied people of different sexual orientation, gender, race, socioeconomic status, age, and the this board should determine cancelation be what is the cancelation policy? What is the criteria for cancelation? See? Can someone else fill in a slot? If somebody is canceled, like in restaurants, if there's a cancelation, they call you this cancelation. Come on in cancelation, we can have you. We couldn't have you before. You're not quite entertaining, funny, or relevant enough. But we have a cancelation, so now you can move up the list. My guests today are Carly Zaken and Daniel Weissberg, co founders and co c e O s of The Skim, a media company that makes it easier for millennial women to live smarter. The former news producers launched the Skim from their couch in two thousand twelve, and it built a brand continues to be a trusted source for more than seven million people. Today, we talk about why you need to bet on yourself, how romantic relationships can be affected by money and success, the importance of knowing what you know and knowing what you don't and asking for help in those areas without embarrassment, and while you always need to know the value of a dollar. I think you're gonna love this episode. Hi, Hi, Hi, So how did the two of you meet? We met? We have a very glamorous beginning. We met in Rome, uh, in Italy. You know, it's it's very random, and then it went down. Hell, we did a study abroad program and college we had to separate schools, but met in Italy randomly. Um, and you know, we're friendly, like we're you know, kids abroad having a fun time and definitely not talking about our career plans. And uh, then we reconnected. Um. After school, we were both working at NBC and reconnected there. But what's funny is in the summers we both intern every summer at NBC, and we would intern for the same people, but never at the same time. So we were like ships in the night, and we didn't figure that out till later. What kind of upbringings financially did you both have? So? I grew up in Chicago. I grew up and I went to private schools. My parents, you know, my dad worked and then my mom created her own business, and my family got really hit by the recession in two in that era, and um, it definitely changed a lot of the dynamics in my family. And my mom, I watched her, you know, have to to step in and build her own business from scrap such in a brand. She was, tried a lot of things. She was a realtor and built that up like a name for herself. UM. While my dad, who had always been an entrepreneur, like he started businesses, he worked in different things, and I saw really firsthand how Um it's an amazing way to work through curiosity and creativity. UM, but it's also not the most secure way to bring in a living, especially when you have a family, and especially when the economy tanks. So I think a lot of that to me growing up in it, UM and going to college in it It's meant that I always had to make sure that I was making my own money because that's how I could pay for things that I wanted. Um. And also, you know, it went from my parents being like you should always know the value of the dollar you should always be working, whether that was babysitting or scooping ice cream to being a camp counselor. I did it at all, but it went from them pushing me towards that as as a life skill to then me juggling you know, different jobs in college because I actually really needed the money. Um And I think that that gave me a hustle. Did you so that gave me a hustle? Did you have money? Noise because you saw yourself have more and then less, etcetera. Was money and motivator. I think security was a motivator. Um And I mean that from I'm meaning like security as an independence that I knew, no matter what was going on with my family, no matter what relationship that I would be in in the future or not, that I would have my own way to support myself. And that meant, you know, uh, at that time, it wasn't like a full time job. It was I know that I can waitress. I know that I can go to a town I've never been in and have no fear approaching someone and asking for a job. Um. And I think that part came from my mom, who always said, you've got to find a way to make your own money. That's huge, that's good, that's great advice. That's just I like how you just said that, and just like walking into it. There is And it's funny because both Mark Cuban grant card don't. I've spoken to different people that said when I've said, if you lost it all, could you do it again? And if I gave you five thousand dollars to do it, and Marks like I don't need to five thousand dollars and just go get a job. You gotta work, So what about you, Carle. Danielle and I grew up really similarly with like similar values and advice from our mom's in particular, where when I like to think about, like what did your what of my mom and particularly teach me growing up, it was always like I hear it in my head. I was like a kid. She would take me to the bank with her. She would like bring coins. She would like teach me how to like roll the coins and bring them to the teller because she's like, no matter what you do in life, have your own money. You have a bank account on your name, and like have your own money. And like as we got older, like Danielle and I always talked about this like the few fund, and it's like, no matter what your relationship status is, like this is yours, like your runaway fund, Like you can do what you want to do with it. You know. I grew up in New York City, So I also grew up in a city and in a really expensive city. That uh, my parents both worked really hard and we're like harder than anyone I know, And having been doing this now for nine years, like I can say they work harder than us. Like they worked so hard. And my mom like built her business from literally nothing where out of our apartment when I was growing up because she wanted to give me access to private school and to the best schools and killed herself to do that. And so I grew up with money as like very much a stressor and like very aware of like financial pressure and financial stressors, also with access to a lot of things. So like an interesting dichotomy who I was always very very hyper aware of, like working hard to make my own money. That money was a stress and like how do I work to make it not a stress in my life? Got it? That's so both of you are women and can you within reason buy and do whatever you want. Has this been a very successful financial venture. We're still in it. You know, we're not at the point where we can buy anything that we want. I think for me, you know, it's also it's not just about me, it's about supporting my family. There's a difference between like can I as an individual buy things between in like in reason yeah, um, if I budget and think about it. Because I asked this question because your women who have financial means, and when you are a woman who makes money, if you're a woman who's been sort of around society and other girls talking and women talking, they often want to be in relationships because a man is supposed to take care of you. I mean that was what we were. The traditional thing was like the man takes care of you. So as we get older and more successful and you don't quote unquote need a man. There are differences in relationships and relationship dynamics. So I want to ask about both of your relationship dynam you're both in a relationship. Are you're both married? I'm married, So Carl, you're not married. You just said now I'm not married. Now I'm engaged. So you have a relationship dynamic going on with a man. So Oh, it's so Danielle tell me about the dynamic with gender, with money, with success, with balance and the household with responsibilities, that sort of thing. You know, it's it's really interesting because, um, I am a planner like I That's how I feel a sense of control, like can I plan out my year? And Carly is nodding because this drives are nuts that I have to think about what I'm doing next April. And I think with that and with our relationship, we take on different roles and that like my husband is not a planner in terms of like this week, next week or a year, but he is very much like retirement long term, how do we make long term investments? And I think about it much. Moore is like can I afford to buy this dress that I would really like? And He's like, let's think about it much bigger. And I think that that has been a good yin and yang for us. But I think in general, you know, when we got married, I was at the point where we were getting a nice paycheck, like it it wasn't you know, amazing, It wasn't life changing, but it was very different from where I was a few years before that. And you know, my husband was always in finance and went to business school, and when you think about that contrasted with media, it's it's very very different. And so you know, with that, I think we had different tolerances with risk. And I think that that's something that Curly and I talk a lot about is Carly and I have done a few investments together, and when we think about things, we I think kind of fall into some of the stereotypes that we see, like you look at every aspect of an investment. We won't just jump in. And I think, you know, I see my husband make investments and he's he's much a risk tolerant. So interesting. I thought you were going to say the opposite, I'm risky, till i'm I'm more like your husband, I'm risky interesting, And I think you know, currently and I both think about starting the scam is like the riskiest thing we've ever done. So it's kind of like for us, that is where all the risk is, and it is where you know, there's so much hopefully liquidity tied up, so we're very very careful about anything else. I see that too. I used to say that more about my business, where it's so risky, what I do every did because from an optics end of putting yourself out their standpoint, one thing can can screw everything up, you know what I mean. So but by that, by the same token, that's a reason why you may need to diverse with risk because if all, you can't buy five houses in in Granwich, Connecticut, because if the bomb goes off in Granwich, Connecticut, all your houses are in Granwich, Connecticut. So there's a there's something to be said for the other side, and that you. I don't want to say hide behind it, because I don't think it was hiding. But I used to say just what you just said, because what I do. I put all my risk and effort into that. Just think about that, because somehow, just slowly but surely, I've moved a little bit away from that and diversified and it's important to balance that up. So Carly, and what about you with regards to that, with relationships and business and partnerships at home, And it sounds like you both have to partnerships and then you are a partner your partnership too, which is interesting definitely. Um, that is very true about our dynamic. I think that you know what's interesting for me and my relationship at home is that I've been with this person um since before the skin So I think he's watched me like go from you know, literally putting everything on my credit card and me like hope this works out, like I've released stressed to you know, watching like how that has changed over time and like when I paid off my credit card and all of that. I think I definitely and I think it's hartily just like how I grew up, Like I think about money all the time, Like I'm thinking about the stress around money all the time, and I'm thinking about, Okay, like how do I eliminate stressors in my life? A lot of my stressors still are financially related. So it's noise. It's noise exactly. It will quit, it will turn turn into a voice, which is very liberating. I have had it for so many years. It just somehow dissolved once you get really collected about it takes a long time, not very yet your goal. But I think just we gravitate towards like different stressors in different ways, and that's just like not a stressor for him in the same way. So I just I think about it a lot um and I think that You're right, like noise is the perfect way to describe it. So I, Danielle and I think are very similar in terms of risk tolerance. Like we both are like we took the big risk, like leave us alone. We did it, but uh, and I have to push myself to like to think about other types of risks. And I remember I was trying to make a decision on something last year and right before the pandemic, And remember Danielle said to me. She was like, like, take a bet on yourself. And I was like, oh my gosh, like like yes, of course, Like I believe, you know, I really believe in myself. But when it comes to money, I immediately like cower. And it's because it's like, so you know, there's a gender aspect to it. It's like why you know, I'm sure we'll talk about skin money, but like partially why we're so passionate about skin money, it's because, like we literally are the gender stereotypes that so many women, you know, get get associated with. And it's because when you talk like I'm a very confident person, and when you talk about finances with me, like I cour I don't like my heart literally starts racing like this morning, we were on a call about crypto and I texted Danielle is like, I don't understand it. So it's totally fun. I don't understand it at all. Know what you know, know what you don't know. And I have no problem in any other scenario being like I don't get it, Like anyone on our team will tell you. I'll interrupted meeting and be like, I'm so confused. But when you're talking about like money, like I have to catch myself and be like, it's okay to say I don't understand it. It's okay to say this stresses me. And I'm still learning the muscles around like how to work through that, and it's it's a very real thing. And so you know, I think I live with that every day. I understand that it is important to know what you know and know what you don't know. It's okay to ask questions. For the first year I was the accountant for the skim by the way on the on the Apprentice, when I had to be the account I hid from it every week and then one week one time I had to do and I actually was okay with it. So but yeah, it's nerve wracking. But you literally what you do for a living with the two of you created with the Skim. That's what it's about. It's about we know everybody doesn't know what's going on the news every day, and there'll be days and I mean there'd be days sometimes weeks where I won't have even looked and anything going on the news. I don't read that much. I write NonStop. I read the Skim every day and along with Katie Kuris, you know, newsletter and everybody else's. But I'm saying, um, it is actually great because when it comes through on your phone, you're just like, Okay, why would I not read even why wouldn't I skim the Skim. It's it's a very smart thing, and we're getting into it. If you're creating and you're doing, and you're mothering, and you're working and you're organizing, and you're resting and you're meditating and you're putting makeup on and your shower, it's hard to know everything. Sometimes not knowing things is helpful because you aren't two in the weeds. Two of you created something about people that really I don't want to know everything. They just want to know something. You know what I mean, they want to like know some of what's going on just to have an opinion. Like you said too, I read the paperwork on you to have an opinion, to be somewhat educated. So let me ask you a question. So the skim you created, would it be to create digestible news for people? That's what it's digestible and easily digestible news. So we wanted to create something that spoke to what you just want for, which is real people have real pressures that have nothing to do with and the necessarily like the ins and outs of what's going on in Washington or following the ups and downs of the stock market every day. Um. And yet we're all citizens of this world and to make good decisions about our health, our family, who we want to vote for, you have to be informed. But it shouldn't be the getting informed is a full time job, or that when you're reading something you need to stop to look it up. And we were news producers, and yet I would feel like if I was reading, you know, the Financial Times or the Wall Street Journal, and I had to stop to actually like google what they're talking about. There was an issue. I'm college educated, I worked in the news. It was my job to be informed, and yet I didn't even have like the time necessarily or the confidence to get up to speed on those things that weren't in my day to day wheelhouse. What we wanted to create with something that actually wasn't personalized that it wasn't about giving you the news that you're already interested in, because that's just feeding what you already know. We wanted to say, like, there's stuff that you just need to know because it's going to make you feel empowered, it's going to push you, and those are the moments that you want to hide under like the pillows, right, Like no one wants to to be put out of their comfort zone. But that's when you learn. And that's what we saw, and we wanted to create something where you know, just because you're not an expert or you're not even interested in what's going on in the world on it from like an economic level, that stuff is still going to affect you down the road. So there have been so many people that have tried to do things like this. Some people succeeded, but I remember I had a friend years ago who was doing this, and everything is a remix in life, So everybody's had every idea, it's about the execution of the idea. So a what really sets this apart? How much of this was luck, how much was timing, how much was smart? And then I've read that you hit seven million mostly women every day. You have a specific demographic, which is good because you want to please if you try to please everybody, into pleasing nobody, I have a specific demographic. Also, what about the luck, the smart, the timing, And then taken the ship to the end zone, what's that going to look like? So a few things. I think One, we reached actually over twelve million across platform every day, and what's amazing about that is actually how we've how we've done it, like how we've grown where we didn't we had followed a playbook of like what came before us. So there's obviously so much learning lessons that we've had from mentors and people who have had companies um that have inspired us. But if we had listened to all advice, we would never have had an email, We never would have focused on a specific demographic. We would have built our company on Facebook. We would have you know, run to snap discover uh, we we would have done so many things differently, and when then you ask us, like, well, what separates us, It's the relationship we have with our audience. It's the trust that we've built with her where we're not the biggest thing out there, but we never wanted to be, or never tried to be. What we wanted to do was to have like an actual relationship with our audience where we inform her every day and through our different products, and we curate different choices she has in different areas of her life, which today have now expanded to her health, her money, her rights, and her her life choices and her what she's purchasing. And then we activate her like she actually transacts or shows up because of the skin and through the skin. So that became such a powerful relationship with our audience, and it's obviously such a differentiator for us in the marketplace. But an answer to your question when we think about like what what got us this far? You know, do I think that we started at the right time? Yes, Like for sure, Like I think you know, we got pressed and meet at least I think it was a slow newsweek like it was it was crazy, Like I think we took off like at the right time in the right place and July um and July eighteenth, it's our birthday. You can send the gifts. Uh, but uh, we we worked so damn hard. It is hard work. It is like what like there was just no stopping us, Like I think there has just been an adrenaline behind what we do. That it was like we had tunnel vision, like you have you talk to our families, They were like there was literally no talking to you too about anything else. And that propelled us to a certain level. Like that got us, like we say, like from the couch to like raise capital, to like get scale. Everything else from that has been like really really methodically and surgically thought out, which is like how who we've hired, like who we brought around the table as investors, how we worked with our team to figure out like where products to invest in, how to scale. So I think that it's been a mid sure, a lot of different things. But like when I think back to the earliest years, like I don't think that was luck. Like that was that was just working so hard and just being so just driven with a singular goal to like get this company to work. Okay, So that's you said a couple of things. I'm really interested in so Number one, I tell people that are listening, there are so many phony bologny shortcut tricks now. And social media is like it's like a mirage because it's about how great everything looks. And I always talk about the filters and this is my fake life and this is what I you know, I'm presenting this thing. And in this show The Big Shot with Bethany, there are all these people that really think they can razzle it, dazzle it, dress it up, and you know, social media and it's it's hard work. And it's so comforting to be able to tell people because I'm from a different generation. I'm older than you guys, to be able to tell people even at twenty four or sixty four, it's never going to happen. You're never gonna hit the big leagues and you're never going to be successful in any area of anything if you don't work so hard, if you're not driven and passionate and working smart. It's not just working just meeting. I gotta meet somebody. I got another meeting. I got a call, I have a zoom call, I have a well I think also like I'll tell you, like why I'm not just saying this is on your show, Like we talked about you all the time in a good way, like we of like how you inspired us, which is like we talked about you and that car that you would drive around stand out in my mind a real housewives and like we talked about that the shrink rat skinny shameless, shameless, necessary promotion and I had. We talked about this and I'll tell you how it inspired us. As we mentioned, we both grew up in a city. Neither of us Therefore, because we grew up in a city to learn to drive, well, we both had licenses, but like they should have been taken away and we when we first started, we were like roommates in Manhattan, were like, how do we get this off the ground, and we like wrote down people that inspired us. You were one of those people. You're like, she got that car, and we're like, but we don't drop. So we we took a road trip and went across the country like two different schools, and it really went across the Northeast to different schools. Um in the Northeast. I drove, Danielle was the navigator. We could only do like quick stuff because I can't parallel park, so we could only do like where I could like just drop her off and she could run out. But that was like we called it like our Bethany car because we wore like our skim gear. We had like, you know, all the skim stuff in it, and then Danielle would run out while I like sat off front with like the car stole running. Drop off flyers like in the student unions, drop off like like T shirts, and drop off all this stuff. And we just kind of started building a movement at all these campuses. And I think it's like, to your point, what well you thought you were? You don't even know. You probably so exhausted, you're like, is this working? We had no idea, but we felt like we were doing something me you know, now you know you are building a movement. But I used to have a five hundred dollar green Bronco. It cost me five hundred dollars, a cracked windshield. I would bake all night from because the bakery would only let me use it when they were closed from ten o'clock at night to five o'clock in the morning. Shrink wrap all the cookies, take them in the cracked windshield, drive them to Delis, pick up the MOULDI cookies from last week because the packaging was so shitty because I had to do it myself with a blow dryer. I'm like, what the is this even working? That's those stories though, These are these entrepreneurial stories that like they're part of your group. And I think it's like, it's not just having a good idea, like a lot of people are really smart and have good ideas. It's like how do you market it? And I think that's the thing that we learned and like I think you obviously are the best at it, Like you have to be able to market your own idea. It's also about how shameless are you willing to be right? So to me, like the first of all, I never thought it was shameless. I always thought the cart was just like a very good idea. But also you know that same time and when I would say I would think about that moment was when we were getting kicked out of Equal Knox bath rooms because we would sneak in because we weren't members. But the about us on our skin bio page was that we are shamelessly always trying to get free members to Equinox. And if you're reading this, please sponsor us UM and that never worked. But um, we're getting kicked out because we were leaving flyers in the bathrooms and we were like, where is our audience? We got kicked out of Starbucks. It was kind of like a joke, like how many places can we get kicked out of each week? That's amazing, But you're taking people through the journey. It's transparent. The thing for people at home that listen. That's why I say this is because it's sheer force draw determination that light in the beginning. When you have that light, you've got to really go with it, and it's there are no shortcuts. So it's scary because if you think there's some hotshot meeting network zooming, douche corporate running up the flagpole language it's to get you successful, it's not going to happen. But if you know how to work hard, it's it's like a blanket around you because you'll always have that. If you're one of those people who is driven and is willing to work hard and you know how to shift when you're not working smart, you will be successful. So that's the thing. It's like working out or being fit or anything you want. Black circles out of your eyes, go to take a go to sleep, get more sleep, I mean stuff like except for sometimes it's genetic and I think it might be that with me. But so you took money, I don't you probably aren't allowed to say. It doesn't really necessarily matter unless you think it adds color. But you took money in exchange for a percentage of the businesses at a large percentage you regret any of this? Was this a good decision? Has this been great? We've done like over the last nine years three round four runs of funding, including like our Steve money. So over the last however nine years, we've raised um about twenty nine million, like in total um and that's all public and like we you know, each round of money like you're giving something up, but you're you're putting more money into the business to fuel its growth, to go bigger, to go back. And has that happened? Have you seen that directly happen? And when are you afraid each time to let go of more? Like what's the threshold? I mean, talk about it? You know, we one hundred percent have taken term sheets for less money because we like try, we trusted the partner more of course, Uh sorry, less valuation because we're like this, you know, it's not a there's a reason, like cliches exist and people always say, you know when you're going, you know, working with a business partner, like it's a marriage, Like would you want to get into bed with this person? And like you really need to think do you trust this person? As can they create someone could not provide as much monetary value, but they could provide more sweat equity value, more media value, more street credit value. Are many It's not really always about the money. People people make a joke it's not about the money. It's about the money. It really, I guess it eventually is about the money, because you could choose. We've had different filters at different times. You know, are aast round of funding. We Google Ventures let our are around UM a few years ago, and we could have closed that deal like the next day, like we were oversubscribed, like we could have closed it was done, but we had next to no women on the cap table, and as female founders, that really bothered us. And so we basically took an extra three months to make sure that the rest of the cab table was filled with all of our list of ownership basically like how the how the pie is broken out? And so we killed ourselves to make sure that we had the right representation around the company from an investor standpoint, because we were in a position where we could have choices, whereas like first first days, we're very lucky Homered Ventures ended up being such a great partner, but we didn't have a lot of choices. Uh, like we we really didn't. And so over time as the company continued to do well, we ended up having more and more choices. And there's different factors that you have in making decisions, and so it's not just about the money. It's around to your points at equity. It's around like how will this person help help us leverage the company to its fullest potential? And there is no way we could have gotten here without the path that we chose, like we had no choice, but there was We didn't We couldn't self fund it. Two venture was really it was like venture or somehow if we could, you know, get some sort of grant, which we looked into from some types of programs um but they would only have gotten us so far. And no one was going to give to year olds that didn't own anything the line of credit. So I think that you know, we could ask this question a lot. And I always say, like venture should be one path that you look at, but there are a lot of others you can explore. And I think because of things like you know, Facebook and who painted the walls at Facebook and um Silicon Valley and now with Shark Tank, that people sometimes think that like that it is the only path, or that path means more than others. And we always encourage people to look at like for that first year, at least for the first two years, if you can afford to get it off the ground without taking outside money, do that create more value? So it's interesting, So it's good for people. Sometimes you just go on a path and you're not really sure how it's going to go. We don't have all these big plans. You can ask these questions. You learn these words along the way. UM. But and I bring up Mark Human a lot because I speak to him when I have a like a money business question. I call him. He's great. So, um, I own one percent of Skinny Girl, which it's pretty for ten years old, a ten year brand. I never think about that. I mean without any debt. I think that's pretty remarkable to be a pristine Knockwood brand. But I um aside from the cocktail, and part of the reason that I sold the cocktail was not for money. It was for the marketing value. I wouldn't sell them all of the I P because they were only a liquor company. I said, you don't need the rest. That was something just totally in my mind, creative. No lawyer told me that. I thought of that myself. I said, I just why would you need lip glass, genes, shapewear, salardizing when you don't do that? Okay, what does your end zone look like? What is the end zone to the two of you? So when it comes to the skim, the north Star for us has always been to be the most impactful brand for this generation of women as we go through like real ship. So it is about, you know, how you handle the real things in your life, and that's what people trust us for and that's what they come to us for. And if we do that, then we can buy what's in the miniguar. And that is really how we think about what what's the scorecards say? It's hard because we are so goal oriented and so when we started it was like, if we do this, then we can raise a seed round. If we raise a seed round, then we have to get to a million subscribe over as an x amount of time in order to raise the money again. Because then you're on that track and it became this, and then you prove this and then yeah, and now it's not about that. It's about we have the money to run the company. We need to be really fucking good managers so that everyone knows what their role is and that we are continuing to build value day after day after day. Because it's not now about we need to raise another round of funding. Um, it's much more about the economics and making this business as big as it can be while also at the same time, you know, knowing the trade offs. Does that involve more uh investment? Are we willing to give up that equity? And those are all the things that we think through, you know, on a on a yearly basis. We check in, we have conversations about our our partnership. What are the lines for us? And you know, it's very clear we've gone through a lot together, we've gone through a lot as a team, and and we know that we want to have this work payoff for us, and we also know what we're work. Do not underestimate the managing of people, the choosing the right people, the having to go through ten bad apples to get to one good one. And it's a time suck. You have to stop down the machine and it feels like it's going to break because you have the wrong people. That is why I did the show The Big Shot, because I needed to stop down machine. I will die if I do this all myself. And so it's very important that you all are very selective and not pennywise and dollar foolish when hiring, surrounding, when partnering, take care of people, reward them. This all has to come full circle because it's just you need the people beneath you in your machine. Okay, the final question I have is about it just jumped off the page because of be strong. My relief work is bipartisan and everybody. We've gotten millions of dollars from Republicans, from Democrats. We have people blaming the president when we're in Puerto Rico blaming this one here complaining, and I aways say, like I don't care. We're the money to the people, like we don't want to be in this complained blame game. We want to be able to just have a conversation about what's going on in a communication, and you are very much in the business of communicating. And not only is every news network pushing their own goddamn opinion, not even the agenda, their own opinion and their own eye rolls on everything on CNN, on Fox News, doesn't matter where you are, MSNBC, everybody is eye rolling given their own opinion. It doesn't feel neutral at all. And you cannot have a real conversation because you couldn't say you couldn't say you were voting for Hillary Clinton. People would came you. You couldn't say you were voting for Donald Trump, people would came you. Everybody went into their own hole and has voted their own way in secret because they're scared to have the conversation because you get told you're fucking moron, you don't know anything, badgered, and it's become this mean, mean, terrible hostile place where people can no longer commune to kate at dinner table. This is my opinion. Here is why, and I respectfully disagree with yours. That is gone, so people like you have to have to break through and massage that. You know, I think it just goes back to what is our business model. And at the end of the day, the business model was not to build towards how a specific audience feels, and I think that that's been done. You know, we saw that with Fox, we saw that with MSNBC. They're great businesses in some ways, right, like they cater to their audience. Especially we studied Fox News not because we necessarily agree with it. Because you want to build an audience company like Wow, that is one to study, but you don't get to listen to everybody's opinion in those situations. And I've learned that through different posts that I've done that have pissed people up. I like going into comments and hearing what they have to say becomes this sort of discussion board, and that you get to do that because you're bipartisans. You get to really see when maybe it's something you personally thought, maybe you're wrong, and you have to see someone else's perspective. It was also for us about catering to our business model was catering to a demographic, right, that's millennial women. It wasn't too conservative a millennial women or too liberal millennial women, and we saw that there was so much competition already in that space, like a uh female focused brand for women in New York in l A like that's been done, that wasn't new. So for us, it was not only something that we thought was right if you're going to record on the news in a way that we get people to trust us, but it was also the smarter business play, right. Well, I like that you're saying that and being honest about it. By the way, it's smarter business plan philanthropy too, So it's interesting. Well, um, you girls are wonderful. I'm impressed. I'm proud of you. But I like the way you let each other speak and you just have the confidence of each other's knowledge and and um, it's very admirable and it's admirable to have such a strong partnership of working relationship for this long. It's as admirable as uh a marriage. To be honest with you, and it's it's very impressive. I think it's wonderful what you're doing, and I feel like you will take this into your end zone. Thank you very much. It's very surreal to hear that from me, So thank you. What a lovely, lovely experience that was to speak to the two young women who founded the SKIM went through financial fundraising, didn't know exactly what they were doing, but knew what they were saying, knew what they wanted, had an idea ultimately attribute their success to hard work, drive, passion, and determination. The more people we speak to who are true undeniable successes, the more we're hearing very similar things. We're hearing singular focus, goal oriented, hard work, no one's gonna tell me no, asking other people around you, but ultimately making the decision, going with your gut. Many roads to rome, but but they all seemed to have a certain number of similarities. So I'm proud of these women. It was great and I continue to learn every day on this podcast. So thank you for listening. Remember to rate, review and subscribe. Just b is hosted an executive produced by me Bethany Frankel. Just Be as a production of Be Real Productions and I Heart Radio. Our Managing producer is Fiona Smith and our producer is Stephanie Stender. Our EP is Morgan Levoy. To catch more moments from the show, follow us on Instagram at Just Be with Bethany