On insecurity and Costco favorites.
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And I think, get out of your head. I think, look at the people. Be curious. You know, it's not about what you have to do, it's about it's more about what's going on around you. How does that work within your job or whatever. But most people don't take that way. So I had a decent amount of experience in the dieting space. It's a multibillion dollar industry. In my book, Naturally Thin was on the New York Times bestseller list for twenty seven weeks um. And it was interesting because when I was trying to sell the book, nobody wanted to buy it. That's always my story. That was the same thing with the skinny Ball cocktail. Nobody wanted to do this idea. No one wanted to buy my book because they said that it needed to be six weeks to expound. That was back in the day where it was you would see seven day diet and you would know exactly that on next Thursday, you're supposed to eat an egg white omelet and next Tuesday oatmeal or oapran and a couple of berries. And the truth is maybe next Thursday you would be PMS and you would want chocolate or not want eggs or whatever the reason is. Maybe you're hungover, maybe you want something more hearty. And the word diet had the word die in it, and I despise the word. I really hate when you hear, particularly a mother. It's usually a mother say in front of their child, and particularly a daughter, Um, oh my god, my jeans don't fit. I'm fat, I was bad, I was good. I've got a diet. I've got to lose weight. Because kids, the younger generation, they absorb everything we say. They want to be like us. They imitate what we say and do. Uh. Whether they like it or not, it still just becomes part of them. And so this vernacular and this world of diet has evolved and changed in different aren't ways. So when I was selling that book, no one wanted it to just be the emotionality of food. I call it food noise, the relationship that you have with food. They wanted it to be prescriptive and I'm gonna guarantee you that you do this for six weeks and you lose this many pounds, or five days and you lose this many pounds, because that's what people want to hear. So some book says you're gonna lose twelve pounds in six days. You know you're not really going to and you know it's not going to be real if you did. It's just making you feel better about it. Growing up in a house with eating disorders, I've been through seeing the magazines. You'd rip out Cosmopolitan or Mademoiselle or any of the magazines and you'd rip it out because it would tell you exactly what to eat. And ripping out that page was hope. Okay, I'm gonna go buy everything. I'm getting excited. I'm starting tomorrow, gonna have a half a cup of Brands Cereal with a corner cup of skin Muk. I'm gonna measure everything I eat. I'm so excited. Then you have to go out to dinner or have lunch of someone or you're not in the mood for that, and you cook for your kids or you see your kids chicken finger, and like you get all messed up. So that's why diets really don't work. And when I had my Wheat, Egg and Dairy Free Cookie Company, they were low fat wheat egg and dairy free cookies and some brownies and blondies. They were delicious. I was a natural food chef long before that was in a local seasonal you know, plant based chef. This was back in two thousand one before it was cool and hip and everybody said it and being vegan was an alien thing. Um. Back then, no one had any of the ship. It was just like we have regular milk and we have skim milk, and we have sweet and low and we have uh, you know, was equal. And then later came splenda. Okay, So when I had this wheat egg in Dairy Free Cookie Company, it was amazing, but the timing wasn't great because everybody was into low car. It was all low card and it was everything was Atkins. Everything was these fake protein bars. Everybody, you know, eating a piece of watermelon was bad. Eating a fake manufactured bar that tastes like chalk and chemicals and has this protein processed garbage powder was right, and it was so annoying. Everything was just like kind of like it is now with the cheese crisps and but it was like these manufactured space food protein copycats of everything, and we kind of moved away from that a little bit years ago. Long before that, it was the exact opposite. Everybody every night in a bowl pasta with tomato sauce, but you couldn't have any oil anywhere near it because carbs could go with other carbs, which was tomato sauce. It was effectively food combining. But carbs couldn't go with oil. So steak could go with oil, Chicken go with oil, vegetables go go with oil, Salad go with oil. But carbs bread could go with bread, Pasta could only go with pasta. And and this is post Atkins diet, Like Atkins would never allowed any of this, but this woman's Susan Powder who at short, bleached blonde haircut, go on talk shows and pile up faked potatoes and pile up pasta, and say, as you can pile up pretzels, you can have as much of this is you want, as much you get a fifty baked potatoes, as long as you have no fat with it. Carbs are great, all carbs. It was fat that was the devil. That was the devil. Carbs are now the devil. So now the pendulum has swung again, and we're in some weird keto universe, which I think is effectively saying like Atkins meet South Beach, except but they're kind of allowing you to have maybe probably like healthier carbs, like brown rice or something. I'm not even sure, but I know that ketos the whole new thing now and everybody is obsessed, and I just want to say, this is all crazy. This is all crazy, Okay. None of this is moderation. None of this is a good relationship with food, None of this is balanced. Some people get mad because they have glucose issues. I understand that if if you have to be in a state of katosis, great that a consiety used to have you peeing on a stick to see if your body went into katosis, which was good, and your breath would be bad and you'd be constipated, and that was good. Don't ask me why. But um, with keto, I think there are some medical reasons for some people. So let me just disclaim that. And I'm also not a doctor and just comment thing. But I do know that just being afraid of carbs is absolutely moronic. I don't care what anyone says. We could go throw it down, we can have a fight. I don't give a ship, but it's moronic, Like you have to eat some things in moderation, I bagels. People think I'm doing something revolutionary, like, I'm literally this crazy, reckless evil kin evil because I bagels like bagels, I would say to Bagel twenty minutes ago. So that's what I have to say. So what do you all think of this? What do you think about low carb versus carbs, versus keto, versus South Beach, versus Atkins versus ah natural vegan. Another day, we're gonna do a whole thing on vegan because just because you're eating vegan doesn't mean it's healthy. There's a lot of garbage and some of the frozen, fake wings, fake burgers, fake cheese, eight pizza, fake ship that's garbage. Okay, So when if you're really being serious and legitimout being vegan, it's not that easy and it can be a little harsh on your stomach. So there's got to be a balanced all of this, I have to say. My guest today is Chris Birch, founder and CEO of Birch Creative Capital. He has been an entrepreneur and active investor across a wide range of industries for nearly thirty years. He has contributed to the rise of multiple technology and luxury brands, including Fina Hotel Plus Universe, Jaw Bone, Tory Birch, Poppin, and Voss Water, among many others. Today we talked about why you need to start your brand correctly from the beginning, how insecurity shouldn't hold you back but be an aid to your success, the important difference between a business and a brand, and why you need to ride the waves of life. Chris really understands the behavior of consumers, and I think you're really going to learn a lot from this interview. Chris is awesome. He's pasted in it. He's crazy, he's fun, he's vulnerable, he's honest, he's driven, he's so successful. He's in everything. You cannot imagine how many businesses and brands he's invested in, started up his partners in, and he's just a really charismatic, successful person who you can learn so many things about. So you're Chris Birch and you've been in branding for how many years? Do you feel like? I mean, I think you're a brand builder? Okay, So just a little history. So, Um, the first brand I built was eagles Ie. We sold sweaters to girls in college storms um preppy clothing. We did monograms, we did um farrell sweaters, and we took the company my brother and I from actually zero to a hundred million dollars in a twenty your period. And during that period we literally created by design, by style. In other words, what's a cool looking sweater? What's a cool this? And we had a brand name and everyone knew it, but they do it by the color and design. And back then Ralph was starting UM and Tommy Hill figure we're starting and they really understood the brand building. It wasn't until maybe ten years in that I understood how critical it is to build a brand and how critical it is to be disruptive. You're saying you were selling clothing and style, you weren't really branding. You weren't intentionally branding, so you were just doing a volume numbers business and you made a lot of money. So that's interesting that don't take this the wrong way. You were being a garmental. You were set moving as many units as you could, but you weren't building the lifestyle and the brant. And the difference between us and I think and everyone else and the reason we were so successful was we were really good at understanding our girl. Right. We understood that she wanted a little strawberries on her turtleneck. W They wanted a sweater with a with their initials on it. But we were not building You're a hundred percent. People don't know this, but I built Googenheim, the ousset management company. We we literally went in and that's in the banking where all we borrowed the Googenheim name from the family and I put the capital up and we built one of the biggest financial services companies in the world, and we used the name and that was a circular brand. And I think it's critical today. There's two ways to go. And there is the way that if you have and and the Costco or at Walmart or anyone else, and you want to be the cheapest and the whatever you can get yourself in, you can sell big volume there, but they would be much more interested if you build a brand. So I am all about everything is about building a brand right now and building three new brands. One's a fast food brand. But we're focused a hundred percent on the full circle of a brand. I agree, So for those listening, I agree with Chris. It's like building a house. You have to start from the bottom and it's tedious, but if you build it wrong, later things will crumble, So you have to sort of start in a methodical way. And I call it the realm. The brand is the realm. You protect the realm, and anything that is off the brand can pull the whole house down. So I feel that you have to be very careful. I think you know as what you're doing and you really understand it, and it's you know, it's taken me a long time, but I would say I'm probably every brand that I build comes from the heart of one human, Okay, and your brand, this is about you. It's what you want, it's what you know the customers want. It's knowing how to put it together. And you're lucky because you have an instinct. And I think when women are building a brand or men, what we do and I love to do is I focus really deep. And so I'm building a fast food brand, which I'm very excited about it in a salad category, which is a drive through. So who's my girl? Right what? And it's a you know, more woman than mailt So who is she? She's actually the brand down building. She's extraordinarily frugal. And when I say frugal, I love that quality. Right. She shops at Costco she's you know, has a household income of ten thousand dollars a year. She cares about how she looks. She doesn't want to go to McDonald's and and eat all the time, but she doesn't want to spend eighteen dollars for sealing. So I get into the character of one person. You are so fortunate that you build brands from one person, and that person is a core group. So I always always think about who's the specific customer, how do I what do I do to police sir? And what you said is so right. Everything has to be full circle m hm. And you take her with you. By the way, I was thirty something when I started skinny Girl. I'm now fIF year old woman who's interested in different things and home design, and so you take her with you. You you evolve. Bethany is a brand that's different den skinny Girl and a different woman. I've accomplish different things, so it's very interesting. And what you said, I just don't remind everyone. When you mentioned googen Haim, he's talking about not just branding as we know it in products and services and clothes. He took a name that's got street cred in the financial world and created a brand in financial services. I mean that it could be anything. It doesn't matter if it's travel, straws, makeup, pressius, you know, home design. But about you, So, what was your relationship to money and business growing up? So? I was an upper middle class kid. You know, I was about as literally as banned in school as any person's ever been. I was in the one percent bottom of the class, straight apt straight these uh did so many issues. I'm, you know, a bedwetter and was insecure, and I was struggling like you can't even imagine. And I had no self esteem and I was the for the first sixth grades of my life. I was like, so I had a lot of time to like focus internally, I guess. And then I went to a prep school in New England and I was the best athlete. That helped my self esteem. So I always think it's really good for your mom's listening if you have that kid that's got a d D or it's got a lot of learning disabilities, you know, it's kind of a gift, right And and Bethany, I don't know if you were a good student, but you have this personality and this this incredible charisma and curiosity, and a lot of times the kids that aren't the best students are listening to other things, listening as they should be focused on school, but what's going on around them. So for me money, I always wanted to be enormously successful. I always was very creative and and I'm very fortunate in that perspective. Did you derive self esteem from success? Do you derive self esteem from? Says I do? I mean, I think it's something you know you've got, It's something you know you are. You can speak with authority on many things and know what you're talking about. People listen when you say something, even if you're wrong, which you probably often are, but people listen because you have a point of view and you're sharing it because of all the success you've had. By the way, good point, um. I think that when I hit prep squads, you know, the first time I was a great athlete or not great athlete, good athlete, and then played in college that gave me self this team. When I started in the world, you know, I've never had a job. So when I started selling door to door in college campuses, I had two things. One was fear, okay every day and I know you Bethany up until I was fifty. Actually, I had the worst fear. I thought I'd go bankrupt, I thought I would be successful. I had fear I was finding my way. And I think a lot of young people when they started business, you're gonna feel fear. You're gonna like have nightmares and you're gonna feel fear. Um And by the way, I still think I'm insecure. You know, I still think that I'm a guy that um probably needs too much attention or it doesn't feel that great about himself. And I've been fortunate to be involved in hundreds of brands of people don't know about, whether it's Boss Water or a hotel or niehe hotel or jam Box or Popping, all of these brands I created. But I think it's very important to stay curious, to stay whatever. And I think being insecure is okay. I think it's okay. I think, yes, do I When I get in the room and I talked to people, people listen to me. Yes? And am I ignored? Um? No? But I feel that I want to feel that feeling of being because I want to feel empathetic. M H. Are you addicted to the idea that's what a good question. Thank you. I love that question. Um, I never look back. I built so many great companies, work with so many great people. I never looked back. I only look forward with the next I EA. But very important, I need permission. With the success of an idea, I have to do another idea. So I can't wait. I have five seven concepts I want to launch. I can't I'm so excited. But unless I actually finished the three or four I'm working on and I win, then I don't really feel that I have the personal permission to start again. But so I was once by the CMO of Being Global, called an idea hamster because I get the idea and I go off on it. But if it's um this podcast or my cherry Juice or something that is launched just launching, those are babies. So you can't have ten babies at the same time. But you could have a baby when you have a college student because you're kind of you have a balance in the new idea and something that's already moving. So I think that's what you're explaining without it being that exact way. And the other good thing which I get very excited about, is I think in the world I of and I'm known to doing startups, but about what I do is invest in other extraordinary humans. So whether it's Stad or Solid and Stripe, or whether I have a mind in in Mos and Beak and we're doing beautiful jewelry. I also love to be the investor and be the partner alongside of the entrepreneur. I agree. So what was your biggest hit and what was your biggest failure? And have you had more hits or more failures? Because you could have had a massive hit and ten failures in the massive hit out least the failures. No, So I've been really lucky, and um, I've had so many hits and I don't know why. I think I'm a good listener and I think so you know, whether it's popping off the supplies was a hit, whether it's a hotel is a hit, whether it was a boss water jaw Bone and jam Box which I got off on obviously, Tory Birch has been one of my biggest hits where Tory and I created the brand from scratch and built that brand to you know, it's an extraordinary large brand today worldwide. Um, I would say nine percent of what I've done fortunately has been hit and let me tell you why I think, and then I'll tell you the failure. And it was a hard failure. Um. I believe that unfortunate is because I had a long time running one business, and I spent twenty years running one specific business, and that business was a hit from day one. Did I know how to build the brand big enough? No? Did I know how to do this? But I worked at it day in and day out. You know you then you couldn't start a brand as easy. And then I've had the one big failure of my life, which is actually I always look back at it is C Wonder. Um. C Wonder still exists today. It was by far the biggest brand I've ever built. It was a massive success. Initially I was fortunate enough to do fun and happy product, whether it was clothing, whether it was home product, whether it was everything. And I take full responsibility. Um. You know, it was a difficult period. There was some some conflicts with my ex wife which made it more difficult, and I made some bad real estate decisions where I got a little ahead of myself. But I feel very blessed that when I get an involved in the project, it tends to do well. But you know, when you have those big, real blowout flame outs, you feel really bad, you do, but but not just that. It humbles you. It lets you know that the wolves are sometimes just sitting at the end of the bed, and when you've got it going good, sometimes they're just gonna come and it's gonna be like the waves. The waves are great when you have a good set. Sometimes you walk in and you just can't get sucking two feet you get pummeled, pummeled, pummeled, and then you just wave and then it's calm and then you get a good set. But I think that's part of the whole thing. And you know, you had already had money. If that condom stake had happened early in your career could have completely destroyed you know, you want to have your bigger failures in the beginning because will learn from them later and they could be way more expensive and damaging later. So you and I agree. I actually it's so funny it said wolves at the bottom of the bed. It's like, whenever I'm doing well, I go under the bed. I go under the bed because I want to be humble. It's all right, it's a bad set. Yeah, Well, there's a couple of things that you made me think of. So you brought up the difference in a business and a brand. So there's an expression that I say that this guy Breck, who's a life coach, told me years ago. He said, you can create a lifestyle out of a life, but you can't create a life out of a lifestyle. So if you have a good life and you're happy, you can go out and be superficial, buyonised cars, all that crap, But you can't make a good life out of the bullshit lifestyle. Stup right. So you cannot create a brand without a business. I couldn't agree with you more. You knew how to run a business because so many people could have a brand, but that could be just bells and whistles if you don't know how to manage people, find the right people around you and run an actual operational business with intellectual property and contracts and law and all the ship that bombs you down. That's all the weeks, that's what sucks you in. That's what I don't like the most, managing people finding people the week. So you knew how to run a business. So if you're starting a brand, understand the business of the brand. If you're starting just a business, just understand the business of the business. Couldn't be more right. You know, I actually think about that. I think the things in shapes right, So I think I think what's good with you is take of it as a circle. And let's just say you and I want to start a business. And let's just say we we know the home business is really hot right now, and you know, we know that women and men and they're all redecorating their apartments or houses. And the first thing they do is they buy a house. The next thing they do is they buy furniture, and the third thing they do is they buy the accessories of the house. And we we have a market. So if we're going to create a brand from scratch, and let's just free flow it, let's just call it um be home, be home, to be Home or this or the spotted Zebra or be Home, which is great. Um. We need to have five aspects of it. And I think it's really important for people to understand the first thing we do, you and I do together Bethany and pick. Let's say we don't have as much here as we have as we get to Ali Baba, and we use ali Baba to look at products and what's the cost of those products on Ali Baba, And then we go out and we do some shopping. We go to all the department stores and all especially towards. We want to know what product is available, what price points. So then we decide we have to manufacture this product at the right price correct. So let's just say we want to do We love the idea. Our first product is we know that people love minerals and crystals. As you can see Bryany, we're gonna make fake crystal lamps and we're gonna be the best lamp supplier in the world for every house. And now we know how to manufacture it, we know how to price it. We want to price it so it's effective. We want to name it like a great name, like the Home. And then we want to build a team around it to build it. But you can do the small step by step, but you're right, you need to have every piece of that business build out. It's not just an idea, it's actually get it done execution on your pcent execution right, So that's where we both we both understand that we both execute that. Do you consider yourself more lucky than smart. What percentage of each um I would say a combination of bout. I would say, I position myself to be lucky, and I don't think that I'm not smart, but I really always position myself and that can be as easy as going out. And literally, the best thing I ever do is I have a wide open to humans. One of my best investments of company called a lead Body Sculpture. It's unbelievable bowl. It's in New York, It's in all the cities. I met the guy at a karaoke bar. He's six ft eight arrant, unbelievable person. And they do a liposuction, but they don't put you under. They do a new life but it's unbelievable. It's the most unbelievable thing ever. I met him at a karaoke bar. I become his large as investor and as partners. I think I've been helpful in building the brand with them. And it's an amazing business. And how did I get that opportunity. I was at a karaoke bar, was talking to a guy. Was that was my positioning for Look? No, but I was open, Yeah, I understand, I was wide open. I didn't judge anyone. I want to learn. So the most important thing for me when you asks curiosity. That's interesting because people have said they set themselves up for when the luck, like when all the fish come, that you have a net right there ready for if the fish happen to come. You're taking it to the next level. You are prepared it and you have the net. But you're saying like you were, you're open, you're just breathing, you're enjoying the sunshine, and you're allowing for the fish to come. It's interesting. It's a little more spiritual, which which I like very important to have that chrismatic openness and don't be so many people are negative, right, like, oh, that's just stupid idea, now don't Yeah, it's true. You know, I talk a lot about old school hard work here, like it's almost an obsession because with Instagram, with filtering, with publicists, with bullshit, with media, with gimmicks. It's my job. It's just something I feel inside. It's my job to let people know none of this stuff is going to happen without the old school hard work. People want to cut corners, people want a fast track, and you're on TV and all of a sudden you're gonna be a billionaire and none of this stuff happens. It's really hard work. It is. You could be any of those the Kardashians on that show. There's no way they became billionaires by not working hard. The most important thing is how do you tell people what to do by being kind and warm enthusiastic. So for me, the most important thing is I think you need to work with people to make them better and better and give them the credit and give them emotional support. If you have someone working around your house and helping you, you just say you're incredible. And one of the mistakes in leadership I think that we all make is we get in our own head. And I think that teaching people and then letting them know how good they are and how much you appreciate it and doing the things when they need it the most is really good too. So I think there's and I think it's really you know, I don't know if you've found this, but people that I interview, I s them, what are you thinking about when you walked over here at the interview, and I don't tell me about talking with me? What were you really thinking about? And they all think about what they personally have to do today, and I think, get out of your head. I think, look at the people. Be curious. You know, it's not about what you have to do, it's about it's more about what's going on around you. How does that work within your job or whatever. But most people don't take that way. Yeah, I like it's true what you're saying. We we I just did like a big move and I know it's moving fast and it's a grind, and you kind of want to let people know if it's giving them, you know, a bonus or a massage or something, you want to let them know that you realize it was a crazy week and you just want to do something to let them know that you appreciate it because at the game moves really quickly and you've got so much going on. So that's excellent advice. Um, so you've built so many other people's brands, is that by no pun intended design, by intention? You know, it seems like you've craved a engine in your own way because you've gotten some of your self esteem through this success. So have you ever wanted it to be? Was see wonder your own thing? And that bothers you that it's other people's brands, or it's about money and success in the idea, you don't care who gets the credit. Do you care that people don't know that you own part of the Fina? I would care. No. I mean I created, you know, let's be honest. I created the Alan was Alan was an artist, and so he and I got together and I put him in front Fina. For anybody who doesn't know, the Fina is a totally a brand, and it's an amazing hotel and residents in Miami, and they own a lot of other things, and it's beautiful, and it's got the signature red and the signature sent. An amazing lounge called the living Room, has amazing music, and it's got a sexy vibe and a big Jeff Kun's massive. Jeff Counts was at a Dinosaur. Yeah. Well so everything I've done like um, so I went to find I went to Argentina and we bought my brother and I bought the biggest property in Argentina, and then we took Allen, who was an artist who had a vision to do this, and we put him in front. And then I sold the company. So the one in Miami I'm not involved with, but Popping is the same way. No one even knows that Popp in the office supply company I created. It's it's fun. And there's so many other businesses like me. He which I finally put my name on, which is was named the best hotel in the world and we're rolling out. I've always been so interested in what I'm going to build in the future that I don't need to take credit for the past. But you know, I am glad you asked because there's so many business I'm involved with. So there's a business called stad s t a u D. It's going to be one of the biggest brands in the world in female apparel. And I met Sarah when she was doing two d and fifty thousand dollars in sale, just had two items. I came in and really, I think she'll tell you helped her build out the company. The company is going to do forty million dollars this year in sales. It will be a massive brand around the world. And I brought our team in and the president, John Siders, and the whole team. And you know what she did, which was and she called me up and she said, I want to thank you because you have been such a good friend and good mentor. And I know it's my brand, but you've done such a wonderful job behind the scenes. And I'm a you know, major stakeholder like the brand, but it's her design, her merchandizing. But it's nice to be appreciated. And sometimes when I create new brands like the new fast food chain, you know it's Um. This is what's so interesting, Bethany. I get so much pride aut of all the people that have made money with me. And the only reason I would want to be out in front is to do what you're doing, is to be able to teach young people with credibility how to build a business, how to be great, how to great life. I've had depression twice in my life with anxiety. So my voice becomes much bigger when they know how successful I am in a bigger, larger way. So to make my voice bigger for the last chapters in my life, the last quarter, I want people to know. But for my own ego, I don't really cared. You know Tory, I'll tell you right now if you have Tory that she and I built the business together. Um, we're very very close. She took that business after I left with her husband. Now who's the CEO, And it's extraordinary. It makes me so proud to have created that business from Scratuate Tory, working on the merchandise and design, building the business with her in the first seven or I guess was nine years, and then she taking it from there. But we were a team and we built a great brand. And that brand is a worldwide brand. And you know, her team has now made it much better that that I love. So, you know, we talked about money noise and how you grew up before. So when we were growing up there were millionaires. There weren't billionaires like Bill you know. You know now there are. You know, it's sort of this benchmark. So what does that mean to you? That word? Is it like if you were just shy, we didn't annoy you because it is just a mark. Like, for example, I'm not a billionaire. I don't really I don't have a lot of money noise anymore, and I'm successful, but it would be nice to be that only because it's like it says like fuck you, I did it. You know. Being on the cover of Forbes magazine for me was like that that was like the not in my belt. So it's not necessarily for people about the money, but it's about the meaning. And I wonder what that means now. And it can be douche now too in this world, so it has different meanings. I wonder what that word means. I like the fact, you know that I'm over a billion dollars and I'm like, I would like long term to make much more. But I'm not driven at all by money. And that sounds I mean, that sounds kind of what. It sounds like bullshit, but it's true and I get it. It's it's like, trust me. When I was twenty to forty, I was very driven by success in money, and I was very driven by buying beautiful houses and and everything else. And I was very driven by not failing. And as I've gotten older, I'm really in This sounds hokey, but it's true, and anyone that knows me, I am much much more excited about other people's success in mind. Wow, Well, did you feel like the emperor totally has closed or or do you feel like you've overshot the mark? I overshot the mark from like the first year of my business. You know, I didn't have any reverse in my cards, and my parents you know, didn't give me any money. And I was successful almost in two years. And I and by the way, I didn't spend any of the money. Right, that was a generation where And this is a really good point of view with I think a lot of the people listening to show with your advice is gonna be enormously successful. And I think you're giving them such great sound advice. And I can tell you one thing, tell him it's much more fun to look at something you can buy and not buy it, but no, you have the money to do it than to buy it. And my daughter Izzy, who idore I have six children, one time we were she wanted a pair of roller skates so bad, and my first wife and I were really strict, and finally I get her a pair of roller skates and she roller skates around the driveways. It comes back and she goes Dad. I have to be honest. One team was better than getting And I think I think of all those entrepreneurs out there that if you can say I can buy a Mercedes, or I can buy something I want, I have it and use that money to actually invest back in yourself is better than going on and buying something. I don't know if you feel the same way. There's certain things I collect. I'm a watch collector, but I'm like a heat seeking missile. I don't just go buy everything on the buffet. I wait until there's something I really do want. And but you are right, the covety is interesting, and if you're collecting things, then things can be interesting. But otherwise, I like when a car gets older. I like buying older use cars. Everybody has everything, and everybody's competing with everything. So what's the worst is you could go want something and then you get it and you just see five people with it, so it sort of ruins it. You almost rather have some beater car that nobody has, then some fancy thing that you wanted so badly and you've got and you're like, ship, somebody else has it, So I don't like, uh, something that somebody else has. I do. UM. I love this home space. We should talk about it. I can't tell you how much I love it. And what's going on right now and home tocre and design in the affordable space is extraordinary. What you can buy bet some you can buy things that literally have like three thousand dollars for one hundred dollars. And I'm not kidding, like things that are in my home that I will not tell people where I get them. People come over and be like, oh, wow, what's that real major designers, And I say, I found it because I'm a hunter. But you know, it's like, um, I don't know if you know this, but when I did Tori, because I'm obsessed over supply chain, so i spent so much time in China and Indonesia and all over the world, and I was, you know, being a hunter in China is really exhausting. So this was back about nine years ago, and I had a vision for very chic stuff, beautiful stuff made in Asia with great quality and everything. And when I started out looking, I literally was in a band and and it's hard for people and the show to understand the size and scope of China, but imagine a thousand New York cities. I mean, it's it's that massive. And then I would go to the Canton Fair and I'd see this stuff and they go, oh, they can make something very cheat And I'd say, over the last eight years, the design to cheatness and the beautiful ability of stuff is unbelievable and in the beginning and I couldn't find it. And now I think there's you can find the most chic of stuff and the stuff that you may have seen in a beautiful house outside of London that was like ten tho dollars and now it's eighty dollars. Yeah, And that's a piece of advice for people. If you're building a house and renovating, it matters the materials you use within the structure of the house. But I'll say the designers that I'm working with a collaborative, I'll say I'll spend on the walls, the floors, the cock I will not spend a lot of money on the furniture. Maybe little pieces. But I'm just saying it's just a side note. Because this is Christmas business. It's very interesting where and how you decide to spend, which is well you You and I actually are very similar interesting, like it's kind of interesting. We haven't spent that much time together, but we're both hunters, we're both curious, we both love value. Right. Yes, yes, we have a lot of in common because everything you're saying is what I stand for. Nothing makes me happier in the world. To find beautiful things for less money. It just makes me happy. And when I get a little down i'm tired, exhausted, I'll drive to a Costco. I'll look in the food, I'll look at that stripped steak, I'll look at the value of some of the great quality items, and it just makes me happy. And no one wants me to go to Costco. Uh, no one that works around me or whatever, because I will get my credit card out and I'll spend two thousand dollars. So I've been banned from Costco because I find it to be extraordinarily great in the food and cat Now, would I like to help Costco on their taste level of some of the furnishings went in there or their clothing, Yes, and could they get better and what they do? But when it comes to certain quality products, that's my place. And by the way, the free samples aren't bad either, but you know you have to get them one weekend. Well, it's so funny you say that, because I once got to an argument with somebody over the last roast chicken. Costco has an incredible roast chicken that on. I think it's only on for some reason. It's on Fridays, like you can't get one. There's some whole thing. But I was once doing a book signing and Costco and no one showed up, and I was so excited cause I was running up and down the aisles and I was thrilled by like just hearts of palm and the dried blueberries and they oh it's incredible, and and and their roast chicken they sell at a loss and I always have um. Now, I went to Trader Joe's for the first time, which people love. No you don't, don't say it, don't love it, don't say it, don't love it, don't Okay, do you want me? Do you like honesty or do you so? Let me tell you. I went to Trader Joe's. I will blown away. I could not believe how inexpensive it was. I walked down there, I'm like, this is insane. And then I got it. And so I just had the pizza, which is the most unbelievable pizza I've ever eaten. And I'm like, why am I ordering pizza takeout when it comes in soggy and I want my pizza Christie. So I'm now a big fan of that. I happen to like the two flavors my youth. But I feel like I'm cheating on Costco. I've actually had a lot of guilt because it's, you know, I don't want to go for the younger, cooler woman with the with the right and so there's a little bit of like not feeling so good. So um, the only thing reason Costco has got a little more selection and um. But I was blown away. And the fact that I hadn't gone shows you when I'm a dude, and I'm not like necessarily, but I was blown away. My entire cart was like eighty nine dollars. It would have been at a normal supermarket like two hifty dollars. And but they've done a really effective job from a branding perspective, great for people to listen to. Thought a lot about it. They literally took the details, so they took the big picture. They made you want to eat it. They understood that you have to be able to see a product if it's in a brown paper bath and where Costco uses Kirkland and they really haven't, you know. They it stands for quality their approaches. A bag is a bag, and you get it. But I was blown away. I thought it was great, and you know so to me and for all, quality and taste and value and and value are what the world wants. Is what you can create good business, lawyer, and whether you know and then brand it. I think my favorite thing I told all my sons, I told them two things in life, only two things. Do as you say, say as you do. Don't bullshit. If you say you're going to go do something, do it. Like if you commit to someone for a dinner party and there's someone a better dinner party, I would only go to them commitment. And then the other one is rejections, your best friend rejection. If you get rejected, you go, thank you very much to go to the next person. You're amazing. This was an incredible conversation, as I imagine, But I always learned so much more about people that I already know. I mean, I've learned so much. You are just a visionary and you deserve your success and you're gonna help a lot of people. So I'm so excited. I'm grateful that you gave me the time. Well, what I find so fascinating is that philosophically you and I are are have the ribbons of the same feeling so it's really great to know you. I've heard so many great things from my friends about you, and I wish I could spend more time with you. In congratulations, I'm really happy for you have a great thing. Well, that was excellent. Chris Birch is really business branding, and most people don't know that. So it always gives me great pleasure to have these conversations here that even most of the information I don't know, even though I know him. So I just feel like you were opening up presents every conversation and figuring out different ways to be successful, different ways to do it. Please go back and listen to all the podcasts, great review and subscribe. We're learning something different every day about a different type of business person, entrepreneur, brand builder, philanthropist, you name it. So that was amazing and I just thought was such a great conversation. I'm so grateful. Yeah. Just Be is hosted an executive produced by me Bethany Frankel. Just Be as a production of Be Real Productions and I Heart Radio. Our managing producer is Fiona Smith and our producer is Stephanie Stender. Our EP is Morgan Levoy. To catch more moments from the show, follow us on Instagram, and just be with Bethany