Cameron Diaz & Katherine Power

Published Oct 14, 2021, 7:30 AM

On new ventures and mixing business and friendship

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I want to know why famous women only date famous men. I've never dated a famous man. I don't even meet famous men. I don't. I mean, I know some, but I would think that there would be so how could there be enough oxygen for two famous people. I guess they say they know what they're going they know what they're going through, they understand the life, the business, et cetera. But that is so much oxygen being taken up. Meaning for example, so Kelly RiPP is a friend of mine, and she and Mark Consuls are both famous, but she says he's the peacock, and so she goes to her work every day. But it almost feels to her like a nine to five, even though it's not literally a nine to five, And he's more of like the colorful peacock in the relationship, so it ounces there, but they're both not out every you know, three days at a film festival, at movie premieres, at so it would seem hard and maybe that's why a lot of Hollywood relationships don't work out. But I also see that a lot of Hollywood women only go for major Hollywood men. So is that an ego thing or is that a thing where they understand each other's lives or is that sort of you need someone good enough for you, you you know, I like being I have never dated someone who had a real social media presence or interest. Um my fancy Paul has an account because he's produced movies, but he never post supposed a picture of me once a year or something. And I've always liked that. And you think about that in this day and age, and all the people that I've gone out with have not had it. And I do social media now a little bit of TikTok because it's a little fun and stupid and still and I found my way that it's idiotic, which is what I love in life. But I only do it for work. So, um, I would find it very annoying if I had, if I was in a relationship with a man who was wanting to always be photographed and take pictures and look at me and filters and all that I would find, I would I would actually hate that. So I just think it's interesting, Um, public people dating public people and what that is about. I think that people are afraid, right, you know, mere mortals, not not celebrities. People are afraid to negotiate while in a relationship about what is in the relationship. People will eventually talk about pre nups. People will talk about so many different things. We're going there, let's go here, We're going on this vacation, We're not going on vacation. You're Jewish, I'm Catholic, whatever. But people don't really negotiate about what they're doing. And I don't mean, like, what are we doing now? You know it's been three months? Are we exclusive or we're not exclusive? I understand that, and people do do that, But negotiating things that are your wants and your needs, things that you really just can't there will be a deal breaker because a good relationship means the other person will hear you, and, if not immediately, eventually really try and work hard to give you what you want. But when I say the negotiating, so there are certain things. Paul and I have a house in Massachusetts. Um, that's where his kids live, and we renovated it and made it nice, and he really well, even though when we first met, I was in New York and I always wanted to be in New York and that was just understood, Um, he needs me to be there and to come to Massachusetts. And I made it clear that in the summer. I really just the summer is where the Hampton's are, my home, my happy place, my daughter's home. You know, it's just a place. So those are needs, and those are things that were negotiated before. I hear a lot of relationships where people don't talk about these things that come up, meaning okay, how many times a month? Not that you have to stick to this. It doesn't mean it has to be like black, you know, and I am clad contract because obviously things happen. Paul's family is a place in Nantucket. We go to Nantucket, which is beautiful, Um, which you know, he needs to see his family, and that's a need and um it's it's amazing. And but I mean like saying, okay, well, how how often do you visit your parents? Like what is going to that going to be in this relationship. Some people want the other person to see their parents every Sunday for dinner or every other weekend, or that the parents stay with them. Like these things are often not negotiated beforehand, so you understand what's going on, because these are the cracks that can become creators where for me, I wouldn't be interested in my husband fiance boyfriend's parents coming to stay with me every two weeks. I think that would be that would be too much for me. I also don't come from a big family dynamic, and that might be I'm very private, and I don't you know, it might be a little invasive. As luck would have it, Paul's family is just like camp. Paul doesn't love to be again best like myself. He doesn't love to really have guests that often, and he sort of stands on ceremony, meaning he's not someone who would ever walk right into someone's house and expect something. And even with his family, there are just ways that things are planned. Everybody's different. None of this is right or wrong. It just means that it's something that we knew about each other. I'm not very social. I don't I'm not out every night with multiple groups of people and always people just stopping by. And my house is just always crowded with people, and neither as Paul. We're very insular people in that regard. We make plans and have a great time, but we're not just always activated. We both share that. So I think it's interesting and smart too negotiate in a relationship, not a pre nup. Not what are we doing and how serious are we and what are we getting married, but what your wants and needs are and if they line up, And that's sort of a negotiation. Okay, I'll come to Massachusetts often during the you know, around the year, but I really want to be in the Hampton's in the summer. So that's that's in agotiation. That's like a deal point, a relationship deal point. Um, you know, you love Nantucket and you grew up going there, so we're gonna go there a certain amount of periods, uh, during the summer. Like I said, you're a person who likes to go out late and I don't, So I'll do that with you every once in a while. Or you like to go to you know, fish concerts, but that's not who I am. So that's gonna be a rarity. So either you do that with your friends without me, or I'll come once in a while, but that's not who I am. You know, I don't love going to big, like crowded concerts and things like that, food festivals or things like that. Like so, so doesn't mean I'm not going to go. It just means you're letting someone know who you really are. So you can see if you can possibly make them happy. If I was somebody who wanted to go out to two o'clock in the morning once a week, or partied or did drugs or wanted to try molly or something like that, Paul would not be interested in that. You know, he's never tried to drug in his entire life. So what do you think about negotiating in your relationship? What do you think about terms and things and deal breakers and who you are and who you're not. It sounds ridiculous. You know. If you show someone who you are, they should believe you. But people think things are gonna change. And it happens with in laws, It happens with religion, It happens with family, It happens with sex, It happens with therapy. Are you someone who will go to therapy? If you're not, it's cute in the beginning when you when you hit a fucking robock and your partners is't wanna go to therapy, it's not cute anymore. Um, do you like the other person's in laws? Yeah, but if they're walking into your house unannounced, uh, every week, you might not like them that much. So is that you know, can you let the other person who you are, so at least you can go back and say, we agreed upon this. You know, we agreed upon this thing. I said that, I made that clear. Now, obviously things can change and someone can change about it, but you can't just blow up a whole deal. You can't later just retrade on a lot of things. So I just think it's great to establish the terms. And I know this from work. The more you lay out, the better the contract is. You don't want to get tedious and get caught up in it. But when you're at the end of a contract, that's when you really get into being creative about different things. Can get what you want because you could get jammed up on points, but if you're creative about other things, then it could work like things that you sometimes given a negotiation in business, making other the other partner so happy that they don't mind these other deal terms. And everybody has things they want to do and things they don't want to do in a deal, a good deal means both partners are happy and also slightly uncomfortable, and that's a relationship. That's a partnership. So tell me what you all think about that. Today, My guests are Captain Power and Cameron Diaz. They went into business together with one goal to make clean, delicious wine, and they did just that with the launch of Avelene Wine. Today we find out about how they went from friends to business partners and all of their highs and lows breaking into the wine industry. I love their story and even got some great advice. I can't wait for you to listen. I Hi, how are you? Hi? There? Hi both of you. I read that the two of you met um in a backyard. It was of one of your homes. Other people, Well, we've we've we've spent a lot of time in in our backyards. But we met through Cameron's sister in law, Nicole Ritchie, who has been one of my best friends for twenty years. And when Cameron started dating her now husband. We met because his twin brother is Nippole's husband. And where did you You both grew up in California? Correct? We did? Yeah, and in some of like not so far from each other, right, Like didn't you both grew up in near San Diego? World's apart? World apart geographically? Not really, yeah, relatively relatively close. It's not like you grew up on you know, I grew up on the East coast and you grew up on the West coast. Like we were within a vicinity of one another geographically that you know, we can call each other, we can say we're both Southern Californians. Yes, and both have later in life and both sort of found converged with wellness and health being sort of on the forefront, but both coming from two very different backgrounds. You sort of met at this vortex of wellness and are basically in an entirely new business. It seems like it's starting a whole new venture. Yeah, for both of us. You know. That's saying, find something you love to do and then figure out a way to get paid for it. And that's what we're doing here because we love wine and we you know, I'm an entrepreneur. I spend most of my time, um, you know, building brands in beauty and fashion for the mostly millennial and gen z um and Cameron, although she's a movie stars, is deep into wellness, having having written two books on the body that are essentially science books and former movie stall That's what I mean. This is an you business and people don't well are you sorry? Catherine Are you still in the beauty business. Are you're still working on those projects? Yes, very much. So okay, So and this sort of happened. You know, my my brands are all kind of they have similar themes, clean ingredients, sustainable supply chains, super accessible, whether it's through you know, distribution channel or price point. And we were just sitting there drinking wine, and we were talking about, you know, should we open another bottle, and we started to say to each other, you know, we just don't feel that great when we, you know, drink wine anymore, and I wonder what's in this? And we you know, we turned the bottle around and we were reminded that, you know, wine is one of the only consumables where you have no ingredient list and no nutrition facts. And we kind of said, like, it's just grapes, right, And that set us out on a journey to really learn the wine making process and understand what potentially goes in that bottle. Um. And then when we learned, you know, and and started on that journey, I think we were compelled to share it with more people and to kind of offer a solution um, you know, because we were trying to drink you know, cleaner wine wine with with organic grapes and low intervention and low additives, and it was really hard to find. So we felt like if it was hard to find here, it's hard you know, for for everybody throughout the US. The hard part about it was just transparency. You know. It wasn't that it wasn't on the shelf. It was just that we couldn't identify it on the shelf. We saw that in the wine industry in particular, because of that lack of you know, they don't have to put anything on the label. It's T t B, not f d A, so they don't there's no requirements to put anything ingredients on the label. So you know, you're walking down the aisle and there could be two under bottles surrounding you. And we just found that, you know, in this industry, it's it's not a practice, it's not what they the industry itself deems important to the drinker. Um, there's a whole other, you know, list of items that will be sort of discussed first before the ingredients of the bottle. You know, you know, it's effectively like creating a new category of transparent wine. I mean, in creating a new category is very difficult to do something different in the liquor industry. I don't own the that part of the brand anymore, but I was the first ever low calorie ready to drink cocktail. It's the same thing where um, sometimes things are so stupid they're smart, like a big deal, it's a low calorie margharita. I started with, this is making perfect sense to me. It's true like everything else, you read an ingredient list, and I wrote a book saying eat things with ingredients you can pronounce. So you, guys, really we're all shooting blind by drinking and not knowing what's in it. So I love that that is a game changer concept. Um Cameron, I read that you didn't grow up with a really a lot of healthy eating habits. So what was your socioeconomic background and what was your childhood like? And did you have drive? Did you want to be a business person like is now you're an entrepreneur? Yes? Um, you know, I think I grew up in Long Beach, California, which is pretty um expansive, it's pretty large area. But I grew up in a in an area that was sort of you know, um, very um urban and uh you know, I kind of well, I wouldn't say urban like the city, but it was very um, I guess there's a lot of concrete we were. I just kind of grew up in a sort of lower middle class area, other side of the tracks. Um, success to me was not staying in Long Beach. What was success for me? I left as soon as I graduated high school. I left Long Beach and you know, started traveling and that was something that that was all I really had ambition for was to to do that, and it's just sort of escalated, you know, my life kind of. I just kind of followed life as it took me. And that was just with inside of you, Like you were born that way, you had internal drive that you just wanted to go be something, do something. You thought you had it. Yeah, I mean no, I didn't think I had anything. I just knew I didn't. You know, Long Beach wasn't where I was going to be. I wasn't where I was going to stay. I mean, I love Long Beach. I go back to Long Beach. I think Long Beach is a great place. But for me, I just kind of knew that it was very limited there and I didn't have any you know, education. I didn't have any money. I didn't have you know, all the things that looked like how you got out of someplace or how you advanced your life. You know, Um, college was not an option. My parents didn't have money. I didn't you know, they didn't push me really to go after any one career. UM. I just sort of went, I want to see the world. I want to travel, and so I did. Now you are a female entrepreneur, which is different than your previous career, where that wouldn't have been something that someone would have said. And do you feel a greater sense of control? Do you feel that you're taking more seriously? Do you feel like you're perceived to be smarter? I mean, how does it feel to make that trajectory and monetize something that you're passionate about? You know. I this is something that I think started off for Catherine and I as I mean, look, Katherine's a serial entrepreneur, so she's going to she she knows how to build businesses. It's something that's very new to me. And I had, you know, sort of resigned from making movies. UM, and I felt that I was just you know, not really needing to do much more. It wasn't something that I was looking for, but when we sort of started off talking about it, it just we had so much fun about the possible what we thought the possibilities could be. And of course then we started dreaming, and then we as we started dreaming, we were doing and we found ourselves really just sort of like taking each step um forward and you know, really learning a language completely. As you know, Bethany, it's a complete it's a language and of itself. The industry is very specific to itself. Um, there's nothing you know that I think that Katherine and I could have taken from directly from the businesses that we were both in and applied to even I think in the financial models and all of the ways that you have to get that product to the shelf. Um is a completely different you know, it's a different language. If you knew that, if you knew what you didn't know, you wouldn't have done it. And also I've heard many people speak about and Katherine, you haven't left your other career, and we'll get into that now, but I've heard many people coming on here say that they leave one part of their career, not for anything bad, they just they did everything they needed to do there they didn't they could do with their eyes closed. They weren't inspired. They just they did. They checked all the boxes, and now they want something else. And now you're doing something you're passionate about. So people ask a lot about when to move, when to make a move, and it can be scary. I'm sure it was scary, but that's when you jump, when you fly. So I think that's inspiring. Yeah. I think having resolved about having resolve about anything, you know, whether it's resolved to stop something or resolve to start something. Like you know, I resolved to start stop something and then I decided very definitively to start something else, you know, but it happened. It happened. I wouldn't have done it without Catherine like that. That just there's no scenario where it happened without her. You know. She said to me, would you ever start a wine you know, uh, a wine brand? And I said, not without you? And literally the next day we were, you know, we were you know, in it starting you know, the process. You closed one door and Katherine was the next door. So Katherine, what about you? You are I guess a serial entrepreneur. I mean you just have been a CEO, You've worked at some major places. We have some things in common. I think your family was in the horse racing business, which my father was in the Hall of Fame. You know that, Yes, I do now remember that. Yes, how funny My father was a Hall of Fame horse trainer, Bobby Frankel. So was your family trainers or all night? They're still they're still in the horse business. They own my mom trains. Um, they have a horse transportation company. So very deep into that world. Okay, um, and so what has your trajectory been and what what about growing up? Did you what was success to you? And was it sort of drilled into you? And how did you find your way and and how did you come to this point? And I also actually really want to know how you can Are you running this business and you're running your other business? So this is one of your many businesses and you're the operations person. Yeah, it's a it's a it's a great question. So I, um, we have a fantastic CEO for aveline that we brought in. I run two companies currently in the beauty space, and I sit on the board of all four of my companies. Um, including aveline, but we you know, managed to find an outstanding CEO who comes from uh the wine industry, UM, but had a really you know, it was really hungry for innovation and kind of saw the opportunity that we saw not only in the better for you positioning, but I think in the way that we speak to consumers and in the way that we market the brand in a way that was just not existing in an alcohol UM. But you know, I really started, you know, as a entrepreneur. You know, from the day I was born, I was trying to make a buck, whether it was you know, selling uh tickets to my neighbors to come see a show I'd put on in my grandmother's garage, or you know, using my play kitchen to open a restaurant. I was always just looking to you know, transact and and make some money. So I had a very non traditional education path. I finished high school early because I was a very serious dancer, and then I just started working when I was about seventeen full time. Didn't go to college. UM, you know, started out in the film industry, actually working for a producer, UM. And that was my first I really wanted to produce. I loved the idea of putting the right people together and the right storytelling and creating a product. And it's a lot like what I do today. It's just I was going to say that, but I I got out of film because I was so frustrated that everything took so long. So I found the Internet and UM. I originally started as West Coast editor of L magazine and of L Girl, which was the team magazine at the time. And you know, I was in my early twenties and I was spending all my time on the Internet, UM and on these new social media platforms, and realizing I couldn't get the same kind of content I got in a print magazine on the Internet. So I I launched my first company called Who What Where, which is an online fashion magazine UM. I launched it fifteen years ago. We turned it into UH, an apparel business UM and so it's still, you know, running today as one of the most popular, you know, online fashion magazines and UM. And then I launched two beauty brands. One is called Verst. It's a skincare brand that's distributed through you know, drug store and mass retail channels. It's all clean. UM were the largest beauty brand to be carbon neutral, the most sustainable in the mass category. UM. And then just this year, I launched a brand called Merit, which is clean color cosmetics. UM. It's distributed primarily through Sephora. There's there's Cameron showing us a little blush. But all my brands are you know, digital first. They're born on social media. We sell direct to consumer as well as partner with amazing brick and mortar retailers like Target and Sephora to really bring the products and make them accessible to you know, two people everywhere. And that's always been my goal is to kind of bring the more aspirational and make it a bit more accessible. And I think, you know Aveline is a perfect example of that. And we you know, with our strategy and launching the brand. You know, usually when you when you create a wine label, you start at you know, restaurants and you you know, educate the similiaise and the in the customers and then you know, eventually, if you're lucky, you get to to retail. But we started with retail. I think we're in about four thousand doors now, but really just focusing on you know, everywhere this customer is already shopping so that we can be there to offer you know, a better fore you solution. Great concept. So we've put together an amazing team that that has really built it out. We're just over a year old, UM, and it was just perfect timing I think for for this offering. Well, what's the structure. I want to know about several women working together. I want to know how that dynamic is. I want to know how you make decisions, how management happens. All of that. I mean, I think people could learn from that. We talk a lot about culture, management, finding good people, struggles, that sort of thing. Yeah, I mean, there's so many different ways to build a business, and you know, I think we initially just set out to meet with anyone remotely connected to this industry because it is so different than what we're both familiar with based on our backgrounds. But UM, then there are fundamentals that are very similar. So you know, we we hired the right CEO, We basically put together the founding team. We you know, funded the business and UM just raised some outside capital at the end of last year. But really it's just starting with who's that leader UM at the top, and then you know, supporting them as they built the rest of the team. I um brought in a young woman who had worked with me for a number of years on the who What We're brand and incubating my skin care brand UM, and she now works over with with Abbott, who's our CEO. So it's kind of you know, old school and new school converging. And you know, we've been really incredibly lucky with the team that Abbott has helped us put together. But you know, Cameron and I sit on the board of Aveline and we're the co founders, so we participate in, you know, all of the product development. So really nothing UM goes in a bottle without us UM, you know, going through many iterations to get it just perfect. And Cameron and I source the original UH wine making partners ourselves before we even and brought the team on UM. You know this is this is definitely not UH you know, a sort of bulk wine project or a celebrity wine brand. We you know, we're pretty discerning you know, wine drinkers, and went out and scoured the globe for the perfect partners who could kind of nail the taste profile that we wanted. Super lucky to find them, and and now we you know, we participate in a lot of the activities from you know, our retailer partnerships to um Press of course, and and mainly product development is where we spend a lot of time. I swear to god, I woke up this morning thinking there's two SIPs of water in that bottle next to my bed, and camer Diaz has a bottle of water in her bathroom, so she wakes up to wash her face that she drinks the whole bottle, and it just I mean, I try, but tell me about the discipline for you, because you don't make it like it's easy. Use the way it's described, and I may have read everything wrong, is that like you you have one night and you cook your meals for the week, and this is a you're very regimented about it because it's important to you, and I want to hear the r o I on it, the return on your investment on this health showgram of yours. Well, I mean, look at consistency is key in anything that you do. If you're doing anything consistently bad, you're going to get bad, the results are not going to be in your favor. And if you do things consistently good, then you're likely to get more. I'm a new mom, so you know, I'm two years deep into caring for another human being other than myself where you know, I find those challenges myself as a mom, um and I you know, I love it and it's amazing, but it does switch up a little bit of your ability to um, you know, meal prep for yourself. So right now I'm on a you know, luckily, I feed everything the same to my child as I do myself. Sheets, everything I do so I can scrape off her meals doubled it exactly. Um. But yeah, I I feel like, you know, water though, is like that's just a you know, a no brainer for me. That's not even that doesn't take any effort, because I think that one of the main things for you know, um, just honoring yourself is listening to your body. And my body will always tell me when it needs water, and I try never to let it suffer too much without it. It's one of the main things that I, you know, I do. I happen to be able to manage to keep disciplined about And what about sleep? Sleep? The regimented nature about sleep. Sleep is important. I mean, it's more more than anything I think, you know, it's one of those things where you keep learning even more and more about what sleep. Um you know what it does for us, how important it is, and I'm fortunately able to get a pretty good night's sleep. Sleeping is about for me, like it is about a routine of shutting down my brain, you know, Like I have a very specific, you know, procedure of shut down that I never no matter what, I always do. Um so that no phones and you put the phone in another room, it stops at certain times. No, I don't do phones. I do know electronics in my room period. There's like not any rate, not not even a light. I don't cover up everything. The smoke detector as a you know, a piece of tape over it's so the light. I don't see the light like I know. Electronics, no television, no fans, no rick clocks plugged in, no anything. It is like, yeah, I love that. It's a very big part. It's I'm gonna I have to start then, I have to try that because I feel like we complain about our sleep, but then we don't really do enough about it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start that. The device is number one that's the worst. If you go to your health app. You have you ever checked out your house the sleep on your health app on your iPhone, but it's going to be bad. If you go to your sleep at app, you can look at you can set up like your what time your phone like basically will stop taking in calls or anything for like any calls will come in and it room. It comes up on your screen like this is your time for your shutdown forty five minutes before bedtime to you, and then you can set your hours that you your desired hours of sleep for at night. So if you want to get eight hours, it basically shuts you down forty five minutes before um, your your bedtime, so that you have that time. I love that because even if you don't sleep, you're laying resting sort of in a meditative state versus being I called activated. Yeah, it's also just to remind you, like it's time to put your phone down, Like I love forty five minutes on you're not getting any more phone calls, the color of the screen changes. Um. You can kind of go through all that. I've been using that for the last few months and it's been really helpful. I'm starting tonight. What mistakes have you made in this process? What mistakes can we learn from? Well, I think early on we had no idea how much wine we were going We were told we were told a lot. We we went to people asking them like how much wine should we buy? And you know, nobody really believed in what we were doing, so they gave us a really low ball, and so we kind of went in with, um, you know, kind of bottling a very minimal amount and found out as we started to get to market that you know, we had our plan actually was working like we had planned to get it into retailers and and we ended up having to sort of like you know, and in wine, the problem is is that you know, it's there's a finite amount of it. It grows so only so much grows on every vine every year, and it's produced in the regions that you're buying your grapes from that you're making your wine in. And you know, because we came in late even to that purchase for that vintage, we had um you know, they're half the most of the wine was bought, Our grapes were bought up and so being able to like find get get more our providers to make us more wine at this you know, late you can't just all of a sudden have more grapes, you know what I mean. So, um, yeah, I got it by the same token. It could have been the opposite and you could have ordered too much and then it would have been another different panic. Well that's what we're afraid of, you know. But we had also done all that before we even understood, like we were just getting our footing in the three tier system and what that meant, you know, and trying to find it an importer and trying to find you know, we hadn't even gotten our distributor yet. And once we got in with our distributor, um, you know, we had we started seeing really that we could be effective in the way that we wanted to. So Catherine, why, um, what mistakes did you make? Like things that you regret or that you did wrong or you would have done differently? Besides that, Yeah, you know, I don't think that anything has been a mistake yet. I think you know, listen, there will be lots of ups and downs like there are with any of the businesses. But um, you know, Cameron and I are just big problem solvers. That's what we love to do. So any time that you know, we would kind of hit a roadblock or hear no from someone, we just well, how do we you know, who's going to tell us? Yes, let's figure it out. So I think you know it's it's um, you know, sometimes even if things don't go exactly as you planned, I truly believe it all happens for a reason. And there's another you know, something around that next turn, and you'll you'll learn why. But we were not so far into this yet that we we can point at something other than you know, just um, you know, blowing through our goals so quickly. But um, I'm sure those times will come, as they always do. And what are you up against now? And was I mean people were drinking more during the pandemic? But did you I mean when you when exactly did you launch what we launched in um July of last year. So that was I mean, that was a challenge. You know, we were in a pandemic. Luckily, you know, for better or worse, alcohol consumption was up across the country in and so you know it worked out for us. We were able to provide at least um, you know, a cleaner option for everybody if they were going to be drinking more. But it's UM, you know, now it's just about keeping up the momentum. We're scaling incredibly fast, so it's again just you know, solidifying the supply chain and UM, you know, making sure that everything meets our quality standards and and getting it on shelves and you know, improving velocity as we go. And UM wasn't a time to sort of nest and nurture and realize how you can do things differently business wise, meaning streamlining. You don't need as many employees, as much travel, as much expenses, and we're able to streamline the business. Yeah, I mean just you know, for me, my, my all of my businesses, I think it was such a year of UM of reset and you know I am. I'm so grateful for some of the silver linings that came out of UM this experience. You know, like less travel and we would fly to I'd fly to Minnesota for one, you know, one hour meeting, or UM to San Francisco constantly for you know an hour meeting and now UM, you know, so many things can be done over zoom and listen. We would not have been able to meet with all of the retailers. If if we had you know, if this hadn't happened, We've been able to meet with every single one on Zoom. It's amazing and we just could not have done that with you know, our schedules as far as travel. So that was such a blessing. Um. And you know, I think it's it's just things like that, to being able to save money on on you know, office space and travel for these new companies. It's it's been it's been good. Now that is finding a silver lining. So you said that you didn't go to college. I don't know if you did, Cameron. But do you have kids, Catherine? I do. I have a four year old boy. Okay, So where do you both stand on college? I mean, obviously there's no right answer, but do you other college isn't for everyone? And what do you think about what do you both think about the benefit of getting into sort of the workforce and getting on the road if you know what you want to do, versus taking those minimal minimum four years for college. I'm actually curious to hear what you say, Kim. I personally believe that on the job training is the most valuable thing that you can do. I think that if you can immerse yourself into something, especially it's something that you love and or you even just think that you love and you immerse yourself and find out that you don't and you move on, um before you get it for your education and something, and then realize that the work that you have to do with that education isn't where you want to exist. You know. I think that there's obviously, you know, there's certain there are certain um you know, you can't be a lawyer without going to college. So if you're a doctor, so those educations are important. But I think that there's so many um you know, avenue is to um, you know, a career that does not require um a college degree that are very gratifying and have the same possibilities, if not more of success. Um you know it. I think also, you know, going into something like with Catherine and I did, into an industry that we knew nothing about and learning about it as we sort of pushed ourselves through. You know, there's the value of that is like your instinct you know, you get to really sort of use your instincts in a way rather than sort of thinking about just what you've learned in school, like you get to like trust your gut a little bit more and be a little bit more um you know, uh, I don't you know like exactly. You know, well that was in your former career. That was also probably very the way you literally, you know, navigated an entire career. So it's probably helped you being able to just like feel it and no one it feels right and what it doesn't feel right? You know, and go through college. I I'm terrible at school. I was terrible. I don't I don't even remember. I don't even know how I graduated. I literally think they just gave me my diploma because I shut up enough days at school. I have no It's funny. I don't like school either. I wanted to be on the road. I wanted to be in the game. I wanted to put me in coach. It's so funny. But and so don't waste the time. Yeah, And I think with the Internet and just all of the examples today of different types of entrepreneurs, you know, you can create your own body of work, right, You don't need the traditional kind of uh you know, education or work experience. Really you can kind of become your own you know, content creator becomes you know, florist and sell it online or whatever it is. It's true. All that said, All that said, I probably will encourage, you know, my kids to go to college because I think it's like if if that's something that they're if they're not as certain as I was, because I think it's it's it's a unique person that you know, has that much drive to or certainty around what they want to do, and that doesn't work out for everyone. So I certainly want to I think encourage it more than maybe I was encouraged, you know when I was young, because I think you get a lot of great life experience out of it. You know, it's a transitional period too in your life from being in the nest. Yeah. I mean it's not for it's not for everybody, and it's not for us to design. I was just curious what your stance was, and it depends upon the individual. I think that it totally depends on the person. Person. Yeah, I think it's individual. And it's also look, now, everybody can afford to go to college, and a lot of people take on debt because they can, exactly and they don't always do it because they really feel that they know what it is. They just they're told that they're supposed to have a college exactly. So you know, yeah, I feel like it's just I don't think that if it's if what if you're the person that you're talking about, Catherine, who's like really knows and wants to go for it and can you know, is willing to take on that debt. But I think it's just culturally, our country and our society has this idea that college is the is the path to success, and I don't I just don't think that that's necessarily true. So Cameron, what percentage do you think you're lucky? And what percentage do you think you're smart? Love? I mean, I really don't even know how to answer that question. I feel like I'm not dead, so I have to be smart enough to have not die doing everything that I've done in my life. So some whatever kind of smart that is, I've got a lot of that. Okay, that's smart, that's smart. But do you consider yourself lucky? Um? I definitely, I feel like, you know, I think that all of us are. You know, yes, I definitely think I'm lucky, But I also don't know how you quantify it luck, you know what I mean, I can't. I think that it goes back to you know, having um. You know, I think one thing that I definitely feel like is that the doors that open. Not everybody sees the doors that open and are know to walk through them right or are willing to push themselves through them or to do the work to keep them open long enough to where they you know, they can see the other side of them. Like I know that one thing that I've had my entire life since I was like I can remember is work ethic. And you know, I worked my ass off for you know, up until I stopped making movies. And now I'm pretty lazy, you know, but I used to do I used to have a really high you know, work drive and um and that I know pushed me through, like you know, my success in a lot of ways, you know, but certainly because of you know, there's a lot of there. There was a ton of luck involved, for sure. And then I'll ask uh, both of you, but kathn press your rose and thorn of your career, not of your not of your family life, but your rose and thorn of your whole career. Man um. I think the rose is always, you know, getting to see something that you've envisioned in your mind and have worked so hard to bring to fruition, like in the hands of a consumer. For me, that's very you know, very exciting, um just to see the reaction or the impact that you know as as uh you know, it's it's fashion and beauty, but like sometimes it can be so meaningful to help somebody you know, afford a new outfit that they then go to a job interview and get that job or have acne and feel like, you know, we've changed their life because their skin has cleared up. Like that just makes me so happy, you know, not only because I've spent so much time kind of creating this and it's in their hands, but just the response that has gotten I think is probably the rose for me and my thorn. I don't know if I don't know if if I see anything as a true thorn. I think, you know, I've had some really you know, uncomfortable times, but again, I've been doing this long enough to understand that everything happens for a reason, and I always end up in like a better place after having gone through something. That's the Matthew McConaughey green light, He says, his red lights were green lights. You don't know it at the time, but the things that are negative totally became green lights. So that's that's that's interesting to change in course, right, And what about you, Cameron, do you know you're Rose and Thorne. I think, you know, I really feel so grateful that I got to do what I did for so long. You know, I loved making movies. I loved um being able to I love the process of making movies. I loved every you know, the opportunity to be on set and work with all the people that I worked with, and to be able to tell stories and put them into the world and also affect people's lives, give them something to laugh about, something to think about. All the things that you know, films have done sort of you know, historically through our society of like really sort of being that camp fire that people gather around. I really feel so fortunate to be able to be a part of that, you know, and so, you know, and it's made my life in so many ways, you know, so incredible, you know, So I just I'm very grateful for it. I think that for me, you know, have sort of calling it when I did was the right thing for myself, even though I loved doing it. I sort of mountain next phase of life for me, which I'm really enjoying. That's nice. Thorn, Um, I think I like Catherine. It's sort of like, you know, it's it's hard to really um say that anything in my life is there's a thorn? You know what I mean, there's not. It's so blessed. I'm so lucky. There's so many aspects of my life that I just there's nothing that I could say. You know, I always say, if it's if I complain, you know, punch me in the face. That's so nice. And then and then in um, for both of you, what in your life is one thing that you could say that has just worked? In relationship? Do you either of you have any um pearls? We'll find a good therapist. Okay. I like that. Check something that that has really helped me as as sort of like a guiding principle in not uh you know, I exercise it in my romantic relations ship as well. But something I discovered with my my first co founder, UM my business who what where my partner Hillary? You know, we would the way we would kind of look at decision making or when we would kind of come to a place where we weren't seeing eye to eye, it was kind of like, whoever felt most strongly about their opinion, we went with it. And you know, there weren't a lot of you know, there weren't a lot of big dramatic moments by any means, but it just we got into this rhythm of that's kind of how we made decisions, and we would always support the other person if they felt more strongly and amazing. It's just a good practice for any relationship. I love that and also it but it's foundation is honesty because everybody can't be dramatic about like no, this is the thing. You can't cry wealth every time. So that's really a good one, like your battles, you know, yeah, I like that. Okay, great, and there the asked one Cameron, Um, it's very similar to that. I mean, just that's one of the things that is like is one to tend what is it for you? If it's a six for me and it's an eight for you, or if it's a you know, a nine for me and a tend for you, then we we sort of you know, give it to the person who feels the most strongly about it. But I also think, I think like honesty obviously is very important, but vulnerability is super important. You know, just being able to say how you feel regardless of how the other person is going to receive it, that you just are allow yourself to practice to you know, being um acknowledging your own feelings. I love that being present with that. Well, you were both very present with me, and I'm glad we got to talk about your business. But I get a sense of you as business women and as human beings. And UM, I am glad you trusted me with this time. I really appreciate the time, and UM excited about what you guys are doing. And I'm excited to have a glass of this right after this conversation. So thank you so much for this conversation. So great to meet you. Thank you, Bethany. Catherine and Cameron were interesting. I don't often do a two person interview, but their partners, and I believe that camera doesn't do very many interviews, and I wanted to respect the new path that she's on. Uh, this show isn't about gossip or gotcha as you know, and I wanted to have a real conversation about the brand, but also get a sense of who they are as people, as as two business women, as two mothers, uh, and as to two women very focused on health and wellness. So I'm so grateful, and you know, in me trying to be respectful of certain people's privacy and how to have a conversation but still get you and myself what I want me to hear and learn about their business. You know, it takes effort. And I loved the conversation. I loved the experience, and I'm really grateful to them for trusting me with the conversation. That's honestly one of the biggest parts of the takeaway. They were wonderful and really good nice people. So that was a pleasure, and I'm honored and humbled and remember to rate, review and subscribe. Thank you so much, and I'm loving it.

Just B with Bethenny Frankel

If you can’t handle the truth you can’t handle this podcast. Just B with Bethenny Frankel is the bes 
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