The man behind the failed Fyre Festival and the drama that surrounded it joins Bethenny to expose all the details! The fraud, the festival, prison, the effects it had on his family and the details on Fyre Festival 2. This episode is absolute fire…but for real.
Hi, how are you good?
How's it gone?
It's going? Well? Do you mind if I asked how old you are?
Thirty two?
You're thirty two? Okay, So.
People, I wondered if people that are listening in my fans will be like, wait, why would you have that guy on? You know, like I'm about female empowerment and a lot of women listen and moms, and you know, I have a responsibility to them. And I was thinking as I was walking that you have an intriguing story, even if it's a cautionary tale for someone who could end up being smarter by realizing some of the things that you were accused of or you know. Also, I believe in like letting someone come here and tell their story and not like setting up a trap like I've been on shows where I walk in and they act like they're excited to have me, and then I come on and then they're like, just like it's a booby trap and it's just to make me look like, look, you know, bad, And it's just not either of those things.
You're a guest.
I respect that, but I want you to be really honest and I want us to really get into this because I think it's an interesting story.
So are you cool with that? Yeah?
Love, how straight to the point you are. Thanks for having me, So let's have some fun and see what we can do.
Okay. So you're thirty two, are you close with your parents?
Kind of grew up in New Jersey outside the city, but lived in New York since I was eighteen, except for my four year jail vacation.
So you had a jail vacation. Where was that all over?
I kept getting in trouble, but mostly outside of Detroit, Michigan, so a little bit of ways away from New York.
So were you a kid that was always getting in trouble? Like at school we always sort of like getting disciplined and sent to the principal.
Always an entrepreneur. I started my first business in seventh grade and had three full time employees and got in trouble when one of them sent me an invitation for his wedding, and my parents like, why is this grown man? Because se him get married?
So I think, go, oh wow, okay, And were you did you come from a wealthy family, like.
Middle middle upper class like New Jersey suburbs, So.
Again you didn't want for anything, but like you weren't rich, right, Your parent parents weren't driving ferraris.
Yeah, it wasn't crazy, got it?
Okay?
But you went on vacations. You had a decent, normal childhood for sure.
Yeah. So try to obviously push the boundaries a little bit myself past.
That, right. And so where did you go to Did you go to college?
I went to a school called Bucknell for almost one year. During my freshman year of college, I became one of the youngest people to raise venture capital. So left college to embark in that tech venture journey and moved to New York trying to make that happen.
You were you knew what VC was in college? You were reading about this stuff. How did you know about all this stuff?
There was an alumni day and someone told me the word venture capital. And I recently found my notebook from that day, right right, venture capital question mark. So started researching it and trying to figure out what it was and trying to understand who these people were that would back eighteen years like me to kind of give us a chance to build her own business on a much larger scale than I was doing for my bedroom as a kid.
It's interesting, and we'll get into it, But like I think about I remember being at a party at Jordan Balfar's house in the Hampton's years ago, and now he's like famous going out and talking, which to me is like I'm mixed about it, because he is smart and he probably could have made money doing anything. But now it's this person who's a criminal who's out there talking and like speaking and getting you know, news events, I mean news shows. And so I think about the fact that it sounds like you were smart, you were motivated, You're an entrepreneur. You could have like gone one way, and it sounds like you want another. So your parents pay for your college for a year, and then you're out, and then what are you doing then? And where are you living and how are you supporting yourself?
So raised money for this, tried to build a social networking website for my college drum Room. Raised money for this social networking app, and moved to New York City and was eighteen nineteen. My friends were now sophomores in college, kind of all alone, and I, you know, snuck into a nightclub one night and saw you there. I thought I was the coolest person in the world, and obviously say hi, because it's in the same time there. Yeah, it was PhD when it first opened at the Dream Hotel. So funny, how yeah fast So I.
Remember going there and I've only ever been there once. That was the one up on the roof.
Yeah.
I think it was like New Year's the year when you were with your then husband at the time, and being a nineteen year old and all my friends were in college.
I thought I was the man, because that's really weird.
I feel like I almost remember that. It was like towards the back and you were with your friends. There was a group of guys there, and I looked good that night. I know it sounds crazy, I would looked great.
I think I looked good that okay, So wow, okay.
Crazy time flies to fast, right, it's insane life.
Insurance, it's insane. You were nineteen, Did you have money? Were you making money then?
A little bit? You know, I had a small salary. I was taking from my company and did a lot of like you know, fun consulting work and was a hustler, right, and I was nineteen with no responsibilities. So I think it's easier when you're a kid with no family, no spouse, no children to kind of have fun and make your own path.
But did you feel like you were finagling a little bit, like in that time when you were coming up, like moving a little too fast and loose, or you were too young and stupid to know.
I think I was just hanging out with people who are much older than me. Most of my friends were in school, and I started hanging out with my investors who are fifty sixty year old, and like they're, you know, peers.
So I was the young guy, almost.
Like the toy in the room where you know, they would take me to the gallows with the dinners and I'd be this like, you know, fun, weird nineteen year old who you know, could provide conversations for ten minutes at the meals. So it's kind of this weird world where I was almost subducted from my childhood or my late childhood years and put into like New York society because I was like weird kid with a tech startup.
So it was kind of like, do you think you were hot shit? Did you think you were hot shit? Did you have a fancy car? Were you like getting girls? Were you getting bottles? Did you think you were like a hot stepper?
I think it took a couple of years. I definitely thought I was lame for a couple of years. And by the time I was on one or twenty two and you know, had some revenue coming in and making some money, I've definitely embraced that lifestyle that I probably wasn't ready for.
And they all liked the marketing of making you this young wonder kin, like you're just like small star athlete that they all know, Like they like, this kid's going to be that a billionaire. Is that the type of thing that was going on with the older guys.
Yeah, And I felt like I had to grow into it right and like in the beginning I was awkward and didn't really know how to talk or hold conversation, and a couple of years later embrace that to try to grow into it and like almost fill those shoes.
Do you speak to any of those people now? Uh? Some yes?
And I think, like skipping ahead, I went to jail for wire fraud, which basically was lying to a aud these investors to raise money for the fire festival.
Yeah, so some of those guys with a fire festival investors.
Correct, It's like that trust that I violated. I think was the worst part of all of it. I know we'll get there, but that's what kind of hurts me the most.
Known and so you actually cared about these people.
They were like and and some of them do speak to you, they have a soft spot for you.
Yeah, it's very like, very black and white. Some are like, fuck off, and some are like, we totally get it and what you did was wrong, but we'll give you another chance. So it's it's kind of there's no one, no one's in the middle. It's very it's very visceral.
Okay, And I'm sure some of them were hurt. They feel stupid, they're embarrassed for sure. What about your parents? What would they think about you hanging with all these older people, And did they think you were over your skis?
Did they say slow down?
It's too much like the way the movie Wall Street, Charlie Sheen's father, Martin, yeah, he's Martin Sheen, is like, it's too much fast and loose over here.
For sure, you're going too fast. You're taking too many risks, whether that's adrenaline seeking, physical risks, or financial risks. And they like, go to college, you go to school. So I think they just took the complete opposite approach, where it's like, hey, totally pull back, and obviously that kind of propelled me to keep going faster and trying to fight as much rope as I could.
And in watching the documentary, which was years ago, I remember, like I'm you seemed like you thought you were the shit, and you are seemed more humbled now, like you definitely have had your ass handed to you for sure.
Right, I don't know, never have seen the docks. I think it all just went so fast. The Fire Festival was literally a four month period of announcing this trailer video with the viral social campaign to the actual date of the festival. So I definitely think it's fair to say I was actually like the total asshole for those four months. But in reality, it was like this whirlwind of this craziness and such a period of time that defined my life.
Right, it's kind of wild that defines that's your identity now, right, I.
Maybe four months as a twenty four year old, which is crazy.
So you were twenty four years old, And for those of you who are too young to remember or live under our rock, fire Festival was from my perspective because I'm just going to talk about, like from the outside and something you were just seeing through social media, all these famous people. The Kylie Jenner is the models. Everyone going to this island excited. It's the Fomo. It's the Tart Dubai trip times ten million, It's Coachella, It's all that Revolve festival. It's all that stuff of like douchey people bragging Fomo better than like it's supposed to be aspirational. Look at my outfits, like you know, we're so fabulous and you're not.
We're on a boat, we're rich.
All that shit piled into one And I read the stat today that it was more viral than Coachella with more impressions, And then you said, then it said, like and there's no third is like way dropped down?
Is that? What?
Is that accurate?
Yeah, it's been the most talked about festival in the world since twenty sixteen and it's never happened, which is kind of wild, right, Like literally the most talked about Thesic festival ever without it ever taking place.
And you were partners with jaw Rule and it fucked him up too.
We were partners. Yes, I was the only one he went to jail so I think I was the only one.
Yeah, But so how did you? But he was probably scared he was going to jail.
I don't know. I think he had gone to jail already, so he knew what he had to do, I think at that point.
And were you close with him?
Yeah? We were very close friends for maybe three or four year years prior to Fire and Fire Festival, and always knew we'd work together in some capacity and that was the that was the attempt.
So how did you meet him?
I had a company called Magnesis prior to Fire, and I basically built a events company on top of your credit card. So I bought this black strip of metal from China and would copy people's like shitty Chase debit cards onto this black hunk of metal and then built different benefits you would get on top of the card. And one of the benefits was a lot of these small private concerts we did throughout New York and he was one of the two dozen artists that we booked for these concerts. Just kind of connected through that and became friends.
Meaning it was just like a branding vehicle. You were like putting the blush in a better compact and adding some marketing assets too, Is that what you're saying exactly?
And then we had twenty five twenty five year olds running around New York with these cards who loved it and then booked a lot of music artists a way just like kind of have fun and get back to them.
And why was it so criticized?
Because I saw on the dock that it was criticized as if like I forgot exactly what the criticism was, but it was like that there was some fraud there too. There was some perception of fraud there too. There was the social media network that you made. There's a perception that it was just like something else, which to me, a lot of things are like something else, So like, is that the only problem that people had with that that was like something else?
I think it was amazing for three years, and then I got distracted by this new shiny thing which is Fire for four months, and then you know, once Fire collapsed, it took it all down. We sold bang uses for basically pennies after the Fire festival because I was the brand and my ability to create these experiences were destroyed at that point. But I think it was more about it.
It was I'm saying. No, I'm saying, wasn't there something before? You said there was a social network? So someone criticized that as being like something else. Was there any other legal problem with that? Was there any investigation into that social network? That just was whatever and it dissolved. It wasn't exactly did that business in and of itself have any taint to it?
It was just the taint was me, and like you know, I was ruined, right, and so if oh that's Billy's product, therefore it must be terrible.
So I think that was kind of right.
But no one but so whatever they were digging up, they were just digging up whatever they could on.
Yeah, there was no criminal auity or like the legal aspect of the business. It was a great business that I didn't know how to see through because I got distracted by like what's next in this bigger opportunity? And that was my That was my fault and like my issue.
But in order to believe you, I want to know that you you you admit that there was criminal aspect of Firefest completely.
It was totally blocked.
By Okay, so you're acknowledging because I mean you you deserved to go to jail in your opinion, you acknowledge your wrongdoing completely.
I met a lot of very good people in jail, but I didn't meet one person who deserve to be there in some capacity. So I think everybody, like I think it's very rare they're going to find a random person and prosecute them. I think you have done something wrong, and you make it over prosecuted or under prosecuted. But I was certainly guilty and deserve to go.
To jail fifty shades of how much there's a disparity and someone belongs to be there for longer.
It's not I got a longer set.
But okay, you did something wrong, you get there.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, you were in the mix and something's wrong. Okay. Do you feel that you were lucky with your sentence or your sentence was longer or was exactly what it should be based on you know, other people, or what's right or what you've heard read whatever.
The answer literally changed by the day I started in the jail in New York, where there were a lot of other financial crime people, and there I felt like my sentence was super long because I would meet guys who had dollar figures or victim amounts that were ten times mine who had less time. And then I got in trouble in prison a couple of times and was transferred further west, first to Ohio and then to Detroit, where I met people who had, you know, a couple of dollars and twenty year sentences, So I kind of felt lucky. So I think it really depends on where you are. But in the day, I think my six year sentence was fair. That's probably right.
Did you have terrifying experiences in there?
I did ten months in solitary confinement, seven of it which was for trying to do a podcast from the prison payphone, So I think that really sucked. And like the biggest takeaway from that is I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but knowing that there was someone who had that power to snap their fingers and literally put me into a concrete box for seven months was wild.
Wait a minute, you were in solitary confine? What you said ten seven or ten.
Ten months total? I did one seventh month stint just for the podcast, Like, as punishment for that.
What is solitary confinement?
Like?
Does it? Hell?
It's bad? You're supposed to be able to go outside for one hour a day, but it was during COVID, so ironically that was an excuse where I couldn't leave. So I was literally in a cage for seven months, and that was really really crazy.
Wait a minute, You eat in there, you do everything in there, you can you read it.
They put your food through like a doggy tray. So there's no like contact with anybody. And you're allowed to have two books a week, which sounds like a lot, but when you have nothing else to do, it's it's you know, you do that in a day and a half or two days, even if you're like an average reader. So a lot of push ups, a lot of meditating, and a lot of longing for relationships like you know, physical, emotional, just wanted to be around people. I think it's the biggest thing you start creating after a couple of weeks.
Did it fuck with your head big time? Did it mess you? Like?
Are you very fucked up from being in solitary confinement for that period of time like we see in the movies.
That sounds yeah.
I think like nightmares literally maybe stopped two months ago, so it it took a few years afterwards to kind of go away. And once again, I think the biggest fear was knowing that like, oh wow, there was some prison official who literally could say, okay, I want Billy, you know in here for seven months and it happened, and that was just crazy for me.
Are you in therapy?
I have been, Yes.
What did your parents, whether you have a good relationship with them or not. You have some relationship with your siblings.
Younger sister thirties, slives in the city.
Are you close with her? Not really?
I think it's hard hard for her. She was twenty one or twenty two when it all happens, So I think, like you know, as a young woman in New York, it's kind of tough when your brothers it's me.
At that point, she was in the demo.
She was in that yeah, Target demo exactly.
And what about your mom, Like, what was your mom saying when you were going into solitary confinement?
Was she hysterical?
I think the hardest part for the family is not known, at least when you're going through it, like you have real time updates, like it's you, it's happening. You know what's happening every second when your family's not there, like they might hear oh in the news or from a letter, like you're in solidary confinement, but what does that mean? Like what's actually happening? So it's like not knowing made them think the worst. I think that was the most messed up part and hardest to kind of come to terms with.
So you traumatize your entire family.
Like for yeah, it's terrible. Yeah, parents, for sure.
Have you cost them a lot of money?
Some I think the emotional damage is probably the worst part of it. Like you know, money can always be solved in some capacity, and like I will do that through the rest of my life. I think the emotional damage to trust, like that's where really hurts the most.
Are you spending the rest of your life trying to repair the emotional trust too?
Absolutely? I think like my dream is to be able to go and shake the hands people that I wronged and where they're like, okay, like we got paid back, but that's one thing more importantly, like we can trust you now, and not saying they're going to be investors or business partners again, more of that like human level where hey, like I trust you as a person. I think that's kind of I crave that and that would make me feel fulfilled.
So why is someone from jail suing you for six hundred thousand dollars?
Yeah, So ironically, my crime was far from the worst of people in prison, and as I was transferred to higher level prisons and worse prisons, you know, I was essentially it wasn't that bad day to day, but I was a target for people with hainous crimes. So there was someone who ended up being a child predator who basically met me when I was first released to a half way house from jail, started showering me with gifts and found out when I was still in that halfway house that he was a child predator and basically severed ties with him. And you know, that's that story. So it was a hard transition from like leaving jail.
Oh wait, what does it have to do with the six hundred thousand I'm saying, why would someone sue you? What was the six hundred thousand dollar claim about? And where is that now?
Yeah, he was trying to give me gifts.
You admit that firefest was completely illegal and you did criminals to hear you're saying you did not do anything.
You're saying this is wrong.
Yeah, someone like trying to pull me down a little bit to bring themselves up, whether it's you know, fifteen seconds of press or whatever it may be.
Okay, Okay, that's hard.
Yeah, Okay, I'm gonna choose to believe you because I'm you're being accountable about some things.
Like I'm trying to wade through this, but it's put you're pretty clear.
Okay, So you were in jail and you were still fucking around trying to make money, trying to do something like what So what is that is that?
Like you still hadn't learned your lesson? Like what was that about?
Like why didn't you just like put your head down. I'm gonna fucking pay attention, do what I'm told, listen, and get the fuck out of here.
Oh maybe I need you as my mom my mom at that point, but it's like I didn't know how to sit down and shut up basically, and like it might not have broken the rules per se with the podcast, but it was against like the theme with the rules, right, the point of jail is to you're in time out. It's not to just provide a different platform for you to continue your business. And I didn't get that, and it took time, and I kept thinking, oh, it's like it's on me. I can prove that I'm not as bad as it might have been portrayed. But that was beyond the point. Like the point was I was wrong, I was guilty, and because of that it is now time to you know, be quiet. So it took a minute to get there.
Ellen Degenerous once said to me, you will keep making the mistake until you learn the lesson, like in relationships and in your case, in your your antics and your shortcuts. And Lauren Michaels once said to me, you have to make an exit to make an entrance, meaning like it wasn't even about me, he was talking about one of the people on Saturday Night Live. But I take that as like your day will come to be able to like so sit down, shut up, and then like later you know, I love that, not that it's not that it's going to be good for you. I mean, it's not great for you by any means, and you don't deserve it to be. But I but I you know, I want to talk through it, okay, So.
I love that the day will come and it's like you have to go through the punished metas there first before you have that chance, And I couldn't couldn't grasp that, So I agree, right, awesome.
You've thought about people who have done really bad things, have you like looked into those more closer than others?
Absolutely? And I think it's like it's yeah, it's it's funny for my perspective to be like, you know, why is he or she doing that?
Or like, oh, that's so amazing what they did do.
So yeah, it's it's.
Cool to see who do you look at? Who are you looking at?
Thinking like they fucked up but like eventually were able to like redeem themselves.
Who are those people? Besides Michael Vick?
I think Ian Schrager had a really cool comebackstory and obviously now is an incredible hotel brand and hotel line. So someone who took it there able to be good at find a good partner to kind of help them and you know, provide parameters and be successful. That's pretty cool.
You mean because he went to jail because what was going on with Studio fifty four?
Yeah, and like came back and said, Okay, I'm great at this like two or three things, and I need help in these other areas and found a great partner and you know, built a successful brand for himself.
So interesting.
I would I had him on this podcast, and I would never have thought of that because I forgot to the point of marketing and branding.
I forgot.
And I know that story because I know I know somebody who did all the lighting and the wiring for Studio fifty four. Do you think that Ian Schrager's crimes were on par with yours? Or like worse or better or just similar? Is Jordan Belfire the Wolf of All Street? Is it on par the crimes? Is it similar?
Yeah?
I think my crime is worse and Ian triggers. Uh. Yeah. I think I probably caused more emotional damage than he did to people, So I think, like that's worse.
Oh okay, his is like just general like their taste skimming, but it's not like hurting direct people.
Yes, I think what I did is worse than him. But he's still, you know, found a way where someone like you would even forget because he's become you know, respectful person, a member of society. So I think that's that's motivating.
But about Jordan, I don't know.
I don't know him personally, so I think this story is like it's hard to understand, like what's real and what isn't real, right, because everything is just sensationalized so much so.
And marketing has been a movie and all that stuff.
Yees, So I don't really know like who he heard or didn't hurt and maybe it's bad, maybe it's not so bad.
It's it's kind of hard to hard to say without knowing the details.
Got it, Okay, So let's get into firefest.
All right? So you're a hotshot.
You got this credit card, you've got this like buzz, and you're running around the city going to clubs. And I think and that you had a girlfriend that was on the road with you, right like doing this?
No, yeah, a little bit, Yeah to speak to her anymore? Have a new one?
Now? Who I met after fire?
But you met a girl after fire before prison?
Correct? Yes?
And she stayed with you for some time.
We broke up for a little bit and you know, an how we're back together. So she she's tough?
Interesting does she? Does she trust you?
I hope? So? So I think she she was not there for the for the fun time. So that was kind of ironic, right, like didn't get to experience the quick rise.
She's only been there for the ship, only only been.
There for the ship, So I think I owe it to make things work.
What kind of person is she like? What is she like? Conservative is she like? What is she like? What does she do for a living in marketing?
I don't have to like get into her fully, but I'm just curious what kind of woman you're in a relationship with.
Super like strong willed, strong personality. Yeah, she's far and moved here when she was fifteen or sixteen, which is kind of like tough.
And what was her family? Said? You have you met a family?
I have. It's it's weird because I think people who kind of met me after didn't didn't get to experience like the good and the bad that came with the chaos of fire and Fire Festival. So I think to them, it's like here's a character, and like here's like you know, current Billy for all of us good and all is bad. So I think for them it's kind of hard to put it all together and like understand what's what okay?
So you are doing this credit card, you're a hot shot, you have a girlfriend, walk me through what goes on? So now you go to some of these investors that you were doing VC with and you've talken a jar rule, you brought it, you packaged it with Jar roles, so people wanted to invest because you had him already right like stuff like that.
Yes, like it was kind of crazy. We had this townhouse in the West Village where all of our cardholders could come. It was almost like a so house, you know, twelve years ago for young people in Manhattan. And this guy walked in who was a programmer at Google and a self taught pilot, and he said, I just bought a plane. I want a flyabillity to the Bahamas. So you know, of course, she said, he asked one of this guy's plane. We ran out of gas and landed on this remote island in this small chain of the Bahamas, and turned out the island had crazy history as like a Blackbeard and a Pablo Escobars, like you know, teams, drug running island and whatever. Like now we were there and I just totally fell in love with this place. I fell in love with the ocean. I fell in love with literally the four people who actually lived there. And I kept bringing my friends and customers and music talent all to this island, and these trips kept growing and growing.
Who was paying for the trips to go to the island.
Initially we were selling spots to our Magnesis cardholders, so they would basically pay a fee and we'd take them from Teeterborough and these like small crappy nineteen sixties planes and fly to the island for the weekend.
Where would they stay.
We would there were a couple of small houses or villas there. We would get a boat and like we kind of like it started with four people and they became two hundred people trips. And on one of these trips I had a childhood friend who said, you should totally do a music festival here for all of your Magnesist cardholders.
So what does that friend say? Now?
I know right, Like it's funny because like twenty people have since said, oh, it's my idea. But it was like, really, this guy who wasn't involved at all, who had the idea for fire and.
Fire festival And is he still your friend?
Haven't spoken to him? Actually? No? Okay, but that's where it started.
So are you are you ripping these two hundred people off while this is happening or no, this is just normal like you're making some money.
No, these trips are great and like they're awesome. And what started with your average twenty two year old became big music artists, comedians, some of the biggest models in the world. And we started filming some of these trips and bits.
Who was paying for this? Your business is paying for it.
You're making so much money that you're just like you're spending this or who's paying for all this stuff?
Initially the customers are paying for it themselves? Then eventually he.
Was paying for the filming it.
Now our business are going to pay for the trips are getting big, we have brand sponsors, we're making more money, Like you know, things are going well now that business is paying for it. At that point where it's like, all right, let's do a festival. Now it's time to raise some money. Like we've proved we can have you know, three or four days where you escape reality in New York City, you're diving for your own fish or cooking in the beach, and all these people who might not spend time together at home are now becoming great friends or they're starting companies together. And wanted to kind of like formulate and package these experiences and sell it as a music festival?
You raise how much money with how many people.
Ended up raising around like twenty seven or twenty eight million for Fire Festival over this four month period from maybe three or four dozen investors.
So at the number that's the number of what you owe back is twenty seven million plus seven million in taxes, so you right correct, exactly thirty four million in the hole. And all these people invested, And what went sideways? And how fast did it go sideways? And how much did you know? And what we you trying to do? And how did you get yourself in deeper? And how did you get yourself to jail?
Like?
What now goes on? So you're there? What goes on?
There are two big issues? So the first thing is that even if Fire Festival was perfect, it was as luxurious adventurous as we advertised, I still would have gone to jail because I lied to the investors to try to get more money, Like so that was the crime. The crime was like a.
Mini made off crime, Like you're saying, let me get more so I can, and then I'm going to end up paying them back. You thought you had you could go, you could handle it.
Yeah, I just I lied and said, hey, we are doing better than we are. I have more money than I actually have, or the company is more money that actually has and just like gave very basic, almost like childlike exaggerations to help raise money, which actually think hurt me.
But it's a separate story. And then the second part was, wait, what do you mean that's a separate start? What do you mean say that go through that? Let's just do it.
I think people were investing in me initially because they had worked with me for five or six years. They've seen all the little failures, they had seen some of the little wins, and they believe that if Fire was done right, it would have been bigger than the previous acts, which shit right, we all agree with. So they were investing because of that, and almost despite my exaggerations for how well Fire was doing. I think when it got to a certain point where we needed even more money, I probably scared away people who would have actually invested more because it was too good to be true. So ironically, the lying probably pushed away a lot more capital and probably people who could have helped make it a reality, because like it was obvious.
You're saying, you could have said I'm in a little bit of trouble.
We can do this, but this is what's going on, and let me get some advisors and crowdsource some information so you can help me get I'm fucked right now and I need help.
I was so scared to show Kings in the Armor, where in the reality was like, these people already trusted me. I'd built that trust.
It's almost endearing for people to hear what's wrong. So I was part.
I was one of the people to start the model. Now I was the person to really start the model for monetizing reality television, like before the Kardashians, and we had the same agent who ended up using my model.
For them later.
Like in other words, I was util the Housewives to promote Skinny Girl, and I was using this vehicle that no one else was using in that way. They were using it to show how rich they were and buying diamonds, and I was using it because I was poor as this vehicle. So this agent then ended up bringing this model over to the Kardashians, who were bigger, and they weren't bigger yet, but they were still bigger, and like was doing deals through the shows for them, a series deal, that ended up failing, Like he kind of used a quick trim he put into their show. He was using my model. But one of the things I experienced, and we were great and we made money together, is that he would always like act like he knew everything. And I was freaked out by that because a couple of times we got really jammed up in things that I ended up having.
To get us out of.
Like it was a situation where I did a brand deal with a partner in Skinny Girl for another category and I wasn't allowed to use that category, meaning he could have said I'm suing you because you're not allowed to use this this in genes, let's say, or I was shapewear. But what I did was went to the original Skinny Girl partner and said, listen, I have to go to you to ask my lit I have to ask my liquor partner you if I can use the intellectual property and these other categories. But the agent did a deal with them already and made a mistake because he didn't know that. So I said, I'll figure it out, and I went to the partner and asked his permission, and he didn't love it, but he said no, problem, like kind of like I'll do this for you, and I probably offered to do something for him. So I'm sorry for that long story, but it just is like, if you get entangled and you're doing something that you're over your skis, you have to go come, you have to come correct. So that's what I think you're talking about as a business takeaway for people.
And most smart people understand that nothing is going to be perfect. So if you're saying everything is perfect, and they'd been there ten times themselves, they're like, this is bullshit, right, it's impossible things.
Are going this well, and I think it scared them away, so they started getting nervous.
They're now in the pyramid scheme, they're not at the top, they don't know if they're getting outetting their money out. They're all freaking up, but they don't want to give more because they're freaking out.
Yeah, so they would they would give more to try to make it work. I think ultimately we were all aligned that making the festival itself work was the best chance at a financial win, at a social win, at a business win. So we legitimately tried, literally up until the last second, to make Fire Festival happen. Then the other side of the problem was just my inability to build a city in the middle of nowhere in four months. It is having no like real estate development experience to that scale.
So yeah, before you got there, you knew the shit was going sideways before this, like how long before.
I didn't know. After the first one thousand guests arrived, I had basically my number two come up to me and say, three people got killed. This wasn't true at all. Yeah, no one was even, no one was slightly hurt. Like, no, there was zero physical issues. But I don't know if he did that on purpose or if he's telling the truth, if he's lying, But like that kind of snapped me out of it, like, oh shit, we are not ready. And we literally turned like seven to thirty sevens around in the air and got everybody off the island. But up until that last second of a thousand guests actually arriving, I thought that, you know, fire Festival one was going to happen, And.
So where's the true crime.
Like we saw the cheese sandwich, We've seen the people freaking out.
There was it was terrible conditions. We know the story.
I mean, many people if you don't know the story. It was this shit show that never happened, with a piece of cheese that went viral in a styrofoam box and people freaking out and crying, but sort of also like a camaraderie between them and like it being the worst disaster and getting attention for it. But it was a disaster. So where was the true crime? You owe twenty seven million dollars to how many people?
So I owed twenty seven million dollars to the three dozen or so investors. So the crime were simply the people who invested money into fire festival.
Because you kept because you told them, you lied to them that it was going well, and got more money.
Like what specifically is the crime? Wire fraud? What was the crime?
So like example, okay, you know this sponsor is going to pay us five million, but in reality, the sponsor is only paying us a million, So like lies like that that tried to entice them to make the deal look better than actually was, to get more money. Yeah, more money exactly. The actual the festival itself wasn't the crime. I think most people get that wrong, Like the people who bought tickets whatever, Like we legitimately tried to make that happen. So the festival didn't matter how it turned out, how good or how bad it was. I committed the same crime and would have gone to jail for the same period of time even if it was the best festival of all time.
So okay, so is your plan? So how do you make money? Now? Do you have any money? How much money?
Doing all right? Doing a lot of marketing, consulting work, so realizing like what I suck at and what I'm good at. So helping a lot of venture capital back startups for their marketing.
Who's hiring you? Like? What person is hiring you? Like?
How do you because you already know them, because they're intrigued by the story, because they think you're smart and you did stupid things, like who's you know? You seem sound to me, you seem culpable, you seem accountable.
I'm surprised.
I thought you were going to come on here and be like trying to convince me of all the ways it wasn't your fault.
I'm surprised. I'm glad I had you on. I have you on. Thank you. Who's hiring you? And what are they paying you? Are they paying you at a massive discount, Like, how is this working?
Ironically, you know, probably doing pretty well income wise compared to where he was before, but the you know, the debts owed are so high, so such a large. I joke that I have like the world's worst agent, like in restitution. Right, no matter what I make, the agent gets paid first, and they take a pretty significant piece off the top. So do marketing work. And actually a lot of it is former investors of mine who have invested in let's say thirty tech companies, right, they might recommend to some of their investments like this guy's good at marketing and he's bad at this, so if you can kind of keep him in this box, he's great.
And that makes sense.
So you are actually where people are working with you again that have worked with you in the past, anyone that invested with you.
Not directly, but the companies they've invested in have hired me. So they might call, like the founder of a company they invested in, say hey, like, I know you guys are having this marketing problem. I think you know, Billy can help with this issue, but like, don't let him do this. They'll let him do that.
So how much money are you making a year of approximately can you say close range?
Is it six figures? Is it seven figures? Yeah? In that range? Okay, okay, I mean it's not amazing good enough.
But do you go out to a restaurant, you're eating at a sushi restaurant, You're wearing decent clothes, and people are looking at you.
Like what the fuck?
These people lost their money and you're in a restaurant, Like, how do you live your life? If you go on a vacation, if you step but on an airplane, You're doing something wrong? Because so how does how do you live? But yet you are going to hopefully pay these people back? How do you live your everyday life? If you belong to a gym? How did you pay for the gym membership?
Like?
How do you operate? What kind of car do you drive? Like? How do you justify all that? Yeah?
So I think I'm really good at paying restitution. So every month, like literally every month, I write a check back to the investors that I owe, and I'm super transparent about like what I made that month. So I'm making this up. Let's say, man, one hundred dollars last month, Like all right, here's how I made it. And you know here's where it went, and here's how much.
You guys, I'm just giving them like a newsletter. It's almost like it's almost like a newsletter.
So it is what it is, right if I make ten million dollars or ten thousand dollars, like, here's how much they made, and like I just disclose it.
So are you doing this because you're doing this or because you would leave required to do it.
I'm legally required to pay a certain percentage, but I'm trying to go above and beyond that and do more. So like, for example, we are doing Fire Festival two again, and by we, there is a third party festival company who's in charge and not me, who's actually doing fire too, and they're going to give.
I think it's such a viable brand.
Yeah, like if like people will come to Fire Festival too just to see what happens, like it to be part of that cultural moment, right exactly if they can do it and it's not me and I can like talk some shit and do some marketing and like maybe do something wild like at the event and like do like ability fire thing. That's cool. But they're actually in charge and they're giving a percentage of their business back to restitution. And that's like in addition to whatever I personally have to pay. So trying to find ways like that that are a viable way to you.
Didn't have to do that. In other words, you own who owns the intellectual property for Fire? I do one percent of it?
Yeah, so I license it to this festival company essentially to do the festival.
And so are you so very interesting? Can you?
Can you do Fire festival merchandise like you own Fire Festival and everything you could do and you're going to right.
Yeah. Another licensing deal we did was with the Broadway Musical Company, So a company is producing a Fire Broadway musical.
Similar deal of like what about a movie? What about scripted movie?
I haven't done that yet. Hopefully after Fire to is successful, I think the redemption is probably a more interesting story. So knock on wood.
But and will you will you vow here on this show that every project you ever do with Fire you will give those investors back a piece of it?
Yeah, absolutely, hundred percent. So it's in their interest to make Fire to work. There's no ask from them. But it's like, you know, cheers silently from the sideline, and you know when it works, it benefits everybody.
That will be interesting if one day you pay them back with it, you're paying more than you took, right, you're going to.
Make you want to make them money?
Yeah, absolutely, there's like, right, there's mandatory interest at it on top.
I'm not sure if you exactly interest you.
Want that, Like you should do a poet like a kid, Okay, so you you should have it. Be if you make over fifty million and you're gonna give them a kicker, like there's a kicker a bonus, you should really do that. And then so your honest personal goal is that you pay them all back plus a bonus, and that you're then able to go like personally apologize and say I made good, I recognize my actions, et cetera, and never'll.
Take more than one festival. Let's say in five years after five fire Festival is a movie, a musical, whatever, like it might get there right like that.
About twenty seven million with the right merch brand for fire Festival. Believe it or not, I would invest in that.
Yeah, it's not absurd, it's it's possible.
No, I don't think it's I don't think I don't think it's five years I think if you did, if you had a merch brand and the festival and certain things like I don't know, like it's very like edgy, like BMX stuff, skateboard stuff, people that take chances and do stupid things like I'm a marketer too.
But I think lean in, like lean into the recklessness of it, like you know fire.
Represents, Yeah, but don't.
You shouldn't lean into loving it and gloating it. You should be the conservative guy. But it works for brands like that type of shit, let's ski off of cliffs and stuff like that, in my opinion.
Agreed.
Well, I have to say, this is an unexpected interesting conversation and now I'm invested and I want to see what happens.
Thank you, Yeah, thank you very much.
Yeah.
Is there anything else you wanted to say? Talk about market?
Get out there.
I think I think it's cool that you know, I my start was seeing you to nightclub and thinking I was the coolest nineteen year old in the world being in the same room and come full circle now many years later and many many flaws and mistakes later, but it's wild to see this right of life and hopefully in thirteen more years we can have a different conversation than this one.
Yeah, and is the right that you want to say to all these people?
I think too. I'm sure some of my investors are listening. Like, I've apologized to all you guys and I'm sorry, and uh, we're doing our best to pay you guys back and hopefully these entities pay off, so we're.
To actually speak loud of the words.
Right, Yeah, exactly, and that's it. Takes time, takes actions, and apologies are meaningless at this point. It's more about showing you guys the results.
And what about your parents and your sister? Yeah, hopefully there listening, but I think they might be. So what do you want to say?
Might be I think recognizing that the people who are punished the most were actually family and who were punished harder than me, harder than investors, harder than attendees or our family. They you know, have the emotional attachment and they ultimately got a worse punishment that I did.
So yeah, and you weren't solitary confinement in ten years and you still think they got.
A worse punishment for sure, for sure for ten months.
Sorry, Okay, thank you so much, very interesting and thanks be. I can't wait till you get the thirty four million back plus plus thank you