Oh my god, I'm one of these zoom people now. So a couple of times I've zoomed on the go because one time I wanted to take my daughter to go school shopping and I had to do this zoom. So I was in the car and then walking into a store, and you know, the mute, the camera on, camera off, It's like a whole I don't even know. I'm sure there are rules, and I'm sure within companies they have rules, and it's my company, so I don't know any of the rules and I don't know how it all works. But I was on a very very important zoom with uh four business men, and I walked into the Soho House. To be honest, out of the car. I was doing the zoom in the car. It's like a sprinter van, so I used it for business. So I was doing the zoom in the car, and then I had my next meeting, and this call was going so much longer. So the Soho House is a private club in New York and they don't allow cell phones. So I was on the elevator trying to sneak it. But they're really serious about and then you're ladd it's sort of in the bathroom and this hallway so and I also had to pee, to be honest, and so they were all still talking and I wanted to go as long as I possibly could, and so then I um walked down the hall and I was dragging it out. And then I went into the bathroom and Paul Paul, my fiance, who I did not see this text, he was on the call to and I saw him call and I didn't answer because I don't know why. I just didn't. I didn't think I realized who else was calling. And then I get this text that says you should go camera off and mute, and the phone was coming through on the other line. And then he said, are you in the bathroom? And I said because I knew I was in the bathroom because it was me who was in the bathroom. And I said, l O L. How bad? He said, not amazing. This is his tex I'm reading it. Not amazing, I said, L O L. Now in caps he said, no private parts, which is where the bar is, Like, oh, really, you mean I didn't show my labia to the fucking businessman that we were just talking to the good olds guys who are saying, like hit him straight, Dan, when you go fucking play golf, I mean no private parts. That's like, oh good, they didn't see my So no one saw my vagina today, that's amazing. What about my crack or my taint? Was that shown to the fucking corporate public company, billionaire business guys? Um so, I said, no private parts? He said, no private parts? And I said I had to pee, Like now pleading with Paul, like what the fund does he care? He's seen my vagina, he knows it didn't happen today. I go, I had to pee, can't use phone in Soho house? He said, usually that's a camera off event. I had to be Usually that's a camera off event. I mean, I'm dying, like it's just and the moment goes away quick. So it's okay, but like we really can't take away. These guys did see me in the bathroom peeing, but they didn't see private parts. So that's amazing. It's just a ship show. Everything is a ship show. Everything's different now, Like it's absolutely crazy. Who forgot? I got him a fucking called twenty minutes ago. I didn't even know anyone was like looking at me, you forget? There's so many people talking in that box comes up. I didn't know that, Like, I'm on like full tilt. What an idiot. I don't know what else I've done. Thank god Paul was there to tell me. I'd never know. There must be twenty soups I've done not knowing. It's so ridiculous. It's fucking pandemic, man. And also is it even the pandemic anymore? I don't know if anyone's ever going back to work again. My assistants think it's a punishment to come into work. They think it's like they're being punished for something like It's like, like, it's actually, you guys were bad, So now you have to go to work. You have to come to work. Yes, your bodies. You have to your physical bodies. Wait what yeah, not your yes, not on a computer. You have to bring your body store. I'm sorry, you were naughty. You're on the naughty list. It's started to come in not for too long. Don't worry, and I apologize. I'm like back in my day, when they didn't have avocado toast and kale. We used to go to work. We used to get in the car, we had to have an easy pass, we had to actually know back in my day, my real day, before they had Avocado coastick actually easy Pass was before Avocado coast, Avocado toast, Brussels sprouts, Slaw and Kale. We had quarters in the goddamn car and we had you used tokens, so we had to go on the subway with actual tokens. Or I think I was alive when it was fucking change pre token. Wasn't there pre token, pre fucking token man. So anyway, yeah, back when I the horse and carriage days. Pre Kale, that's gonna be the new thing. How old your daughter? She's pre k pre Oh she's three, No, pre Kale, she's she she was born four. Kale was born Okay, I was born way after pre k is different. That's like a schooling system. This is just like a sort of Greens cultural system. What are your funny zoom stories. I presented an I Heart Award with no pants. It's great. You're only like you're saving money, like half a wardrobe. Now we only have to have like half Actually we don't even have to have a half a wardrobe. We could wear half tops. Crop tops should be so fucking huge. They are because the TikTok. But also because a zoom you wear it, it's like half the fabric a crop top. No one's gonna see my middrifts. Great start wearing bathing suits. My guest today is legendary speed skater and the most decorated American winter olympian, Apollo oh No. He's won eight Olympic medals and was inducted into the US Olympic Hall of Fame. Apollo is also a New York Times bestselling author, writing many autobiographical novels about his vast experience, including up and coming book Hard Pivot. He's a Dancing with the Stars first place champion and now spends his time involved in motivational speaking, philanthropy, and travel. With a wildly successful career off and on the ice, you are sure to enjoy today's show. Please welcome our guest. So your story is very interesting. Obviously I've heard of you and know about you, but I have some really interesting people on here that have created businesses in a non traditional way, have definitely uh created a brand within a unique industry or a game changer. And I've had a couple of serious athletes on. But one of the things that really stuck out to me was that you're raised by a single father, and we often hear single mother the single mother's story, and I just I just thought that was compelling and and really interesting about your whole child childhood and your story. Yeah, it was. It was really different, and especially because my father, um, you know, being a but he's immigrant, not speaking a word of English, not really understanding basically how to raise me. Um, but had that very strong tiger father. Uh kind of call it like philosophical instruction so to speak. So like the way that he really approached like two things one. Um, anything in my life revolving around sport and academic was always like at the highest level. So he just like fundamentally so funny, like my dad fundamentally believed that I could do anything literally anything you know, a basketball, you know, by football, like whatever you want to do. Um. He thought that that was something that was easily accessible for me and there was like no limitations. And the same thing for school, right just enrolled me into the absolute hardest, um kind of curriculum in programs that were far beyond my comprehension at the time. But I think it helped push me at that same room but it sounds like it was more energetic than being militant and grinding you into doing something. It was sort of just that good enough isn't good enough, like a state of excellence, but it doesn't mean kill yourself and I'm forcing you to do this. Yeah, I think that well, early on my career there definitely was this like semblance of like this idea that he could push me in a direction that would I think it required me to be pushed um, and it wasn't militant, But I don't know, like I can tell your story about how like when I was twelve years old, my dad used to wake me up at like three thirty in the morning to go like skate and empty school and church parking lots because you know, there was no other time that he could take me go practice roller skating. So he like tape this miner's light to my helmet and then that's when he would just sit there with like a clipboard with our like Volkswagen Bug or Volkswagen Rabbit, like the diesel engine and the lights on in the parking lot and there's like no one there and this like empty church parking lot, and I'm just like skating around. Yeah, Well, sometimes I think that we're the product of our parents unresolved issues. So is that because your dad was just working NonStop and you think he wanted you to fulfill some sort of dream that he didn't get to fulfill, or it was just about I think it. Look, I think it was probably both, right. I don't think my dad had any aspirations in terms of like athletic achievement. I think that because he went against the grain. You know, my grandparents were pretty clear in terms of like saying to my dad, we don't want you to leave Japan, we want you to continue here and go to the you know, kind of the the atypical process of of kind of working for a company for like forty years and then and then retiring. UM. And he went against the grain and he came to the U S didn't speak a word of English, didn't have any money in his pocket. He just he had a struggle. And I think that that probably drove him to be like a survivor in many instances, especially because he probably wasn't welcome here at the time when he arrived. UM. And then when I was born, you know, everything flipped and he gave everything to me every ounce and energy that he had, UM, every dollar and never saw him actually ever purchased anything for himself other than that was like a necessity up here, necessity for like decades. Um and uh, just his like full commitment. He you know, I think everyone who as kids. I don't have kids yet, but um I can, I can. I can imagine like when people have kids, they believe their kids are just incredibly special, right, and they believe that the best and they only see the best in their kids. And my dad like really drilled that into my head. Like when I say that, he told me there was no limitations. This was every day in many different life lessons and he would tell me so like unresolved conflict. I don't know, maybe I think my dad definitely had something to prove. I think growing up, my father felt like I was at somewhat of a disadvantage because you know, I didn't come from money. Um, I didn't have time and the resources to buy the best equipment. UM I didn't, you know, Like it wasn't like my family was like highly intellectual or academics in any capacity. And so he like effectively told me that I had to work twice as hard like that was also drilled and drilled to my head that I was basically somewhat at a disadvantage, but that I could still achieve those things. How do I put in the time, effort and work and so you know, back then, obviously we didn't know anything about sports science and sleep and rest and recover. It was just all about this like hardcore belief of just continue, keep struggling, keep pushing, you'll figure it out. Well, there's two things I wanted to ask. One is about how much is too much for kids and the pressure. Um, then that's a sort of negative aspect that what is perceived to be negative, what looks like it could be negative. But then reading about your childhood, that being a law your father didn't want you to be a latch key kid and unrolling you in different sports programs, it's a great It is a great babysitter for kids, as I think about it, if you can't, if you have to work, and don't you know, want your kids just to be home eating cheetos, respectfully, the cheetos, watching uh, you know, garbage television. What a great thing for your kids to be sort of working towards something, and even if they don't become an Olympian, just the sucture and the discipline. And I want to know if that structure and discipline is all upside or you know, what are the sort of ramifications of that both sides of that equation. Well, look, every human that goes through life is going to have these conditioning mechanisms that create behavioral consistency and changed. Right, So psychologically, typically, most of the way that we act in our day to day lives today in your plus years on this planet, are typically derived from experiences or very few experiences that have occurred in your life that leads you to believe that you are biased towards a certain response and reaction, and so like how much pressure is too much pressure? I think pressure is incredible. I think it's incredibly insightful. I think it's absolutely critical. And the same thing with losing and failing and not hitting your dreams and not getting what you feel like you deserve and you desire the the insights derived from that is a really important part of growth. And anyone who has lived an incredible life at least extra only from our view, has never had an easy life. It's always been about struggle and strife and perseverance and going through those things. Now, I agree, as we go through life, right and as we have this progression around, how do we identify the new characters of strength in today's modern era? Right? So, and pressure not being cruel and not you know, just being mean and badgering even in the work a workplace, but being you can be strong and you can be kind at the same time. You can be strong, you can be kind, you can be incredibly resilient, and you can also be human. And I think that is that wholesomeness that I think we're seeing more transparency and open discussion about is very healthy. Now, the flip side of that is we go too much on one side of the spectrum where we don't allow for you know, more wind to make good timber so to speak. Right, Um, the stronger the wind, the stronger the trees, so to speak. So we need those types of callous environments in order to fortify not only physiologically but psychologically. Right. When you have pressure, that pressure allows the human experience to do extraordinary things and either by pure default and you have no choice for injury, some kind of tragic failure loss that you're facing and you have to bounce back, or it's because you deeply desire to win and you want to innovate or whatever that might be right. And so there's always these things, and I think it's very we have to be very careful today about there is this line that we don't want to cross. We don't want to push kids so much to say like, look, you need to be a machine and you need to just figure out everything on your own. But I think the kids can have that element, right that is there, that's a level that they can utilize, this obsessiveness that once they harness that in short spurts, is extremely powerful. But that if that becomes all encompassing and consuming, I'm speaking from experience here, it can be highly internally toxic, very self deprecating and of defeating. And oftentimes you live in this era where you actually start to limit your growth versus actually exude and be that person who you potentially to be. You're deteriorating. It's it's it's degenerating. What about who's the gymnast who who left the event? Her team was so mad it was such a big right, So what about that, Like, is that now that we're looking at that, you know, months later however long it's been later, I blacked out on time. But uh, is that too much pressure? Is that bailing on your team? Is that just knowing your body? Like? What about that? I think it's very complex, right, I think, first and foremost, um, when we look at Olympic athletes, and I think making this statements important, we tend to export our belief on what they should and what they represent right right now, Like, we have no idea what's going on in her head, the type of trauma. I mean, we kind of know because they were open about this in this entire scandal that existed that was horrific across those girls in gymnastics. UM, and these girls carry that weight with them, and they carry that trauma with them, And so we don't know the complexities and the texture of how this person is digesting and living in that moment. The the external pressure of America saying it doesn't matter that you went through those things, you still have to perform for us. I don't know if that's okay either, And so you've got this delicate balance of When I first watched, I think like full transparency. I was like, because I'm conditioned in a certain way, I saw I was like, hey, that doesn't seem fair to her teammates. But then I you know, I'm I'm, I'm I feel like i'm i'm hopefully growing and getting some maturity. And so I said, wait, wait a second, like what am I missing? Why do I believe that to be a truth. I actually don't know, Simone. Um, I respect her immensely, and I said, oh, I'm actually wrong in this belief of exporting what I think happens to be true. And this is like identity politics in a nutshell, right, what was happening in our country with the with the politicized nature of everything, also celebrity celebrity, what we think people are doing right and wrong. I was just talking about it before, about people flaunting their divorces, flaunting their relationships, like I was talking about that today, Like we think we know what somebody shouldn't shouldn't do. It's similar, it's similar, um, but uh business to me. So I I'm I'm athletic. I mean I snowboard, I you know, ice skate, not professionally obviously, I've hiked fifteen miles in my life and talked about it for fifteen years since. Uh, but I know that feeling when you just have to pull from within to finish something, to do something. I'm definitely not an athlete, I don't, but I know that feeling and that and I really know that feeling in business, like you just everything's wrong, it's going wrong, but you just you gotta collect yourself, get you can't go through the window. You've tried the door. You gotta go in another way. Like I do see a parallel there with business and and sports and just not sports, just being tremendously competitive as an athlete, where you just gotta like regroup, collect your self, take care of yourself, and attack it again for another day. And I read about you when you weren't doing so well. First of all, it sounds like as a kid you had a natural ability and didn't know necessarily what road you were on. And then you just we're winning. I mean, you're doing really well. It seems like it came fairly easy to you as a competitive person. But then you hit some roadbumps, like you weren't just winning the way that you were when you started, like not beginner's luck, but like you just hit it right in the beginning, and then later it caught up with you not either practicing or taking it seriously. So what what was that whole journey like a mustering you know it up and and and and regrouping and then going back in. Yeah. I mean, look, those those struggles and triumphs associated with sport are are kind of apparent across my career. Especially early on. I was this kind of thought about as like this phenomen athlete, this prodigy for the sport um and I didn't recognize it. I didn't have that self confidence and belief. Um I just was kind of having fun on the sport. And so when fun was moved at the age of fourteen and fifteen, after I had won my first trials and I was technically the number one athlete in the US, UM I now was doing this professionally and professionally as around grown men and women who dedicated their lives away from their family to pursue their Olympic dream and path, And so it was no longer fun. It's not excuse, right because I now I was training with the national team and I had earned that right. But I do think there was something there where um I now was put in this environment where I just kind of went through the motions because I didn't enjoy it anymore, and that was really really tough. I didn't understand resilience and hard work and discipline and all these things that compound over time could really really be in terms of a result. And my dad shown me some really tough love associated with that, right like basically after not making the Olympic team in n Um, finishing dead last those at those trials, to my dad then shipping me or you know, basically driving me to this remote cabin in the Pacific Northwest and leaving me there alone at the age of fifteen to figure it out on my own and basically give me the ultimatum of Paula, you need you to really identify with what you want to do in your life. I don't care if it's academics, it doesn't matter to me good sport, but your habituation that is being created, this behavior that I see can be potentially patternistic, and we don't want that to be something that you can normalize. So my dad had this vision overall, not of me being this great athlete, but he just wanted me to be able to figure out how life will slap you down or give you these challenges and if you shy away from them, or if you cower away, Um, that's going to create some type of conditioning that is in the opposite direction of what you actually ultimately want no matter what you do, right, it sounds like the game what happens with success Even in business, as we were talking about, the game moves pretty quick and then the game has changed. So you had the game had changed, you didn't even really realize it. It could be somebody at home bacon cookies and now all of a sudden they're professional and it they've opened a bakery and they're like, wait, this is not just the cute everybody thinks I'm so cute that I make cute cookies and likes them. Now I gotta deal with this. So the game changes and then you have to reshift, pivot, and you know, regroup and then it's a new game. So how did you make the new game fun? And by the way, it's not all fun like it could be. It's work. You're just a little young, but it's it is work, And so how did you make it that you wanted to do it? You know, if you're fourteen, the game changed, it's now sort of business a little bit, so how does that, you know, reshift. I think it's a part of that is just kind of mustering up this belief that even though you don't know what the outcome is going to be, you are still going to forge ahead, uh to be and show up fully as your best self. I get that it's process over prize, which is what you say. It's this process, and it's this marathon, and it's this one golf hole and you're just doing this one thing at a time, and and if you do everything to the best of your ability every day, whether it's sports or otherwise, it'll take you somewhere great. I think that's part of it, right, I mean for sure, I think like we in this country, like we love to celebrate champions and we never talked about the people who got second third. We just don't. That's been our conditioning that now so um so, that has been ingrained in all of our beliefs since we were very young, even in the way that cartoons and movies and film has been shown to us. And so we believe that, and so we have subscribed now to tie our happiness directly to a result, which is great for competition, which is great to keep track of score, um, it is not probably the most holistic and wholesome way to value or look at your own personal life. And so if we can look at our life as a series of chapters and understand that each chapter, no matter we feel like we deserve a different result or not, we have to surrender to that chapter after it has been completed, and then we have to move on to the next one. That's really hard to do because we're competitive. Like you know, if I don't get what I want, I'm angry, I'm upset, I'm confused, I'm frustrated. And that's good if you can harness that in terms of recalibrating for the next time, but if you stay dwelling itself. So that's totally my whole life. But it's great, it's very I find that the it that a failure when I've had a real failure, I didn't get something, or even back in the day when I came second on the Apprentice, right you you you get sad, you get bombed, you are depressed. But that regrouping and that like brushing yourself off, that's very empowering. And that's I think what you're talking about. That's when like all the good stuff happens. We screwed it up. It could be a business. We screwed the whole day up. Everything sucked. But you know what, let's get excited for tomorrow. And I like people around me that are like that because it's I know people who never get excited about something. They say, I'm not getting excited until I know it's for sure. I get excited about everything if it's if we if we ship the bet and it sucks, I still got excited. So now I got excited and it sucked, versus not being excited and it's sucking. It's better to be excited and it's sucking. Yeah, And I think, look, look, life is super short, right we we we've been given this gift of eighties six thousand, four or seconds in a day. I say this often we lose most of those two a spiraling down world kind of negative self talk mechanism that is so critical that we don't even allow ourselves to be present. We're thinking about some think in the future that we need to hit, and we're kind of operating based on those kind of traumas or micro traumas or failures that have happened in the past, and so we're like never really here and we're never really there, but we're living in the past. It's just like weird mechanism. And so what I have found is that there's nothing but during sports your present. During sports your present. But I also think that there's nothing wrong, by the way, with having that and knowing as long as you know that you're on the treadmill, so to speak, right, and you can get off the treadmill at times. Right a catalyst or a lever or an incident that happened in your life can be perhaps one of the most powerful emotional tools that supersedes anything else. Education, physical ability, good looks, whatever those things are, they mean nothing. When you see a man or woman on fire, you know what I mean? Like when they are, it's it's incredible. Yes, but you said something that made me think about meditation. People think that meditation is supposed to be absent of worry and stress. It's supposed to be sort of just identifying it. And they say, if you don't like people worry, Oh god, I was thinking about my list when I was trying to meditate, and then they they did it wrong. If you lean into what you were thinking about, usually it will dissipate versus if you run away from it, it will chase you. So I think it's kind of what you're saying, like it's okay to be not present then to be worried. But I guess if you identify that, then you're ultimately being more present. Yeah, it's um, you know, I mean like deeply rooted in Buddhist philosophy. Is this like belief of like if you seek happiness you'll never get it, right, Like exactly what we're saying, the same thing, right, That's what I'm saying, except what it is. And then you it's a lot less pressure. We're always thinking we're doing it wrong or this I should be relaxing more. I shouldn't be worrying about this right now. You know, you're at a spa and you're thinking about something and you're like, damn, I'm supposed to be relaxing. It's not relaxing to be thinking you're supposed to be relaxing. Um. So you're an entrepreneur, you're a business person. You uh talk about it, you write about it. So, um, was that is that part of your sort of striving for excellence? What what was your understanding of business and money as a child. I know you said you're father was certainly not someone who cared about money. You wrote you wrote that it's a tool. But how did you become someone too? I guess financially in business wise. Extend your minutes of athletic greatness. You know, not to say that you you were fifteen minutes. But we all have a moment when it's the biggest. So I'm asking about the extension plan. My moment was like twenty years ago. It's crazy, I didn't say that. And and that's a realization that like at some point in your life, what you did in the past is not the most happening thing anymore. And that's just that's life. You have to expect that, and you have to figure out, um, what is it gonna be fulfilling and important? That part of the reinvention, and you know, part of the reason why I wrote this book Hard Pivot is really deeply rude in this belief that we all were faced these types of changes, either by force, by nature or whatever it might be. And the more prepared that we can be to embrace those changes and those challenges, the better outcome that we will actually be able to experience. So from my first identity, which is the Olympic athlete, I had to kind of dissolve that, so to speak, and I didn't know how to do that, like twelve years ago, so I basically ran away and ran away, meaning like I went to the furthest place on the actual planet physically, which was in Asia, and I started pursuing businesses that I had no idea what I was doing, but I was ambitious and a part of this was this kind of deep rooted feeling that I had to keep moving that was really really important. I knew that I couldn't remain stagnant, and I also knew that my routine and what got me to be a great Olympic athlete was simply the attributes now the natural skill sets and talents that I was given um from the universe, from this, from whatever I have um they you know, wearing tights and going in circles in business means nothing like no one actually really cares and most people don't want to go in circles anyway. But that was that was what I perfected when I was in the sport, and so I moved from that into this arena of saying Okay, Like I have to stop saying no to everything else, which I did my entire life. I said no to everything that didn't involve me being the best in the Olympic path. And then I started saying yes to everything, and it didn't matter what it was. I wanted to curate these experiences because my natural curiosity became a superpower. I understood that I had advanced so much in my personal life and when in regards to my sport. But outside of that, I was a baby. I was a kid. I was I was like nine, you know, I was like whatever was going on? Fifteen? Like I literally was so stunted. And so you can imagine like no real collegiate or university experience in a dorm room setting, or learning, no internships in any capacity, not ever working for a company, not understanding business. And I'm starting but but I'm seven years older than anyone else potentially that would be in the same position, right, And so I've got these credible life experiences and I've got zero business experience, And so there's this emotional feeling of like I don't want to feel stupid in this room. Now I can get into any room that I want in the world. The problem is after the first kind of you know, hey, great to meet you. My son or daughter is a big fan, why are you here again? Like like what actually you? And so that chip on the shoulder became a really strong motivational tool. That's amazing, you know, and I read a little bit. We have similar principles. First of all, I wrote a book called The Place of Yes but um and talking about the pandemic and thinking about the pandemic. It's sort of I think I've read in some of your the press about you, just about the way that the world has shifted now and there are different things to grab onto. Like so many people are worried about the fact that, oh that change, and I see it that way, But I see that as a total opportunity in business like this the snowboots was shaken. Everything's upside down, and so there are so many new pockets for success, so many new ways to be successful and entrepreneurial. And um, how have you changed the way you're doing business or what what's happening that's different now based on this time? Yeah, So you know, I I spend most of my time now, um in venture, meaning like we find great company needs, analyze the data, and then we invest in those founders and support them along their journey UM throughout the investment life cycle of that company UM. And so what we've found is that many times when I meet young founders who are talking about a new particular niche, business, a sector, a vertical that I believe doesn't need to exist and is unimportant because I don't watch or subscribe or interact with those types of protocols or projects wherever the may be. And so an exercise that we've all done is like, what am I missing? Why am I missing this? And there's a very famous UM venture capitalist that's based in San Francisco that had passed I believe on pinterest UM at the at the earliest stage, and it would have like returned his whole fund, meaning like he would have had multiples and it was would have been a huge home run for him. And then you know, like a couple of months later after he comes back home from work and his wife is talking about this like new this website Pinterest, and he's like showing all these things and he's like, oh, I am not a fifty three year old woman at the time, this is the time and obviously the demographic has changed immensely, and so he's got this in the in the background of like his like his office. It basically reminds him. He's like, Hey, the reason why you don't get it is because this is not a part of your experiences, whether that's in video games, whether that's in you know, Web three, in crypto or n f T s are just a crazy and that could be scared because you have to learn it. Yeah, that could be Jessica's or turned down Uber. She was one of the people they asked in the beginning, the girl from Gossip Girl, Jessica's Or. They asked her in the beginning to be part of Uber. She was embarrassed to tell me. I'm like, it's part of your journey, but that I I want to cry thinking about it. There's a ton of those stories, right, Like we have stories like all across the board, and so many different investments that would have returned like ten thou ex returns right, but then it's neither here nor there, right. I think the only way that we learned from that is to remove ourselves. This is a part of the why the book is important, is that you go through lie if in this conditioning of your upbringing and your belief on how the world works and should work. And the more that you subscribe to that is powerful and strong, and it gives you identity to align with, it gives you the tribalism around. I missed the days and we didn't have cell phones and people went to concerts and they really experienced them, or in the Olympics and they really watched them and they weren't on their phones and tweeting and instagram and like, there's all that right, and and that's fine. But I think from a business perspective, the ones who are able to subscribe and have the foresight to say, Okay, I'm missing something, and maybe I don't believe in it, but I can understand how this new technology communication or way that people are are engaging with each other is going to be something spectacular and I need to buy into that or you lose an opportunity. So I have no idea what you're going to say about this, uh question, what percentage are you lucky and what percentage smart? I'm for sure not very smart, So I'm gonna say I'm heavily skewed on the lucky side. Look, I look I believe that I have been, like really gifted an incredible life amidst all the challenges and hardships and failures. Like I just I don't think that I was originally intended or supposed to be here, or maybe I was, but I just I feel like things have happened in my life that are incredible. The people that I have met, the individuals, the stories, just the a the access be, the actual experiences, the things that I have seen, the rooms that I have been in, the experiences, the Olympic Games, um, the chances that I've been given, whether I win or lose, whatever, but like the chance I've been given, like my life is incredible, and so I feel that's that's lucky. I fund to believe that, And I'm okay believing that. Do I believe that I have to do the hard work, and the work is the actual shortcut of course, like that's the standard metric for how I operate and live. But not for a second do I ever believe that, Um, it is because I was more intelligent or smarter than in your athlete. I think I was really lucky. I was lucky to be able to something was instigated in me to want to do more than other athletes. I don't know what that is. I don't know if that's my father. I'm lucky to have a I mean, like I have a dad singing about in household. But my dad was incredible, Like he's just like every day I can't believe like that, my this is my dad, And I hope that one day I could be the same father to my kids. He was to me like just a semblance of that. Well, it's funny because I was just thinking, you're you may be one of the people that just actually is very very lucky. But I mean, but what's funny is that somebody's very lucky if they're smart. I just thought of that for the first time. Like if you're if you happen to be really smart, then you happen to be really lucky. I mean, in sport, we used to have this saying where you know, short track speeds getting into sport where you need luck like you absolutely need it. Um. But then there's also a saying that says like make your own luck. You put yourself in the right and the best possible process and timing to where like you can actually get that's the preparation prep being prepared for when those fish calm, having your net and wait to be lucky like that is the wrong move. That is nothing. Thank you being prepared to be lucky, UM, Rose and thorn of your career. The Rose was my first ever Olympic final in sport. My first ever Olympic final in Salt Lake City about twenty years ago, UM in two thousand two, where I intended and I was in the lead to win this race. I was favored to win this race. I was like on the cover sports, like all these things. I was highly hyped as a as as an Olympic athlete. UM, and I didn't and I got silver. I had fallen. UM, I cut my leg. That was the rose because of the edible life lessons that it gave me later on life, and that was to get back up. I can't control the outcome. When you believe that you are deserving of a particular result and you don't get it, you have a choice to perceive that as I'm going to live the rest of my life angry and bitter, or I'm going to take this as a gift, like as I said, and I'm lucky enough and I'm grateful enough to have represented the US and have won this medal. Is it the color that I originally wanted to know? But that's okay. I actually I wouldn't change the color today. I wanted to be silver because of what it represented in so many ways. Um. And the thorn that could be called that could be a that could be called your silver rose. Yeah, my silver rose. Um. I like that, I would say, like because of my you know, I didn't grow up with a mom in my life, right, I had mother figures so to speak, like godmothers and people like that, but I didn't have I think that that tenderness and empathy I didn't get. I got no that did not have anything, um. And so I was raised in a way where I think it really affected. I think it still does affect the way that I approach relationships. And it's been really really hard, um, really really hard, and uh, I'm getting better at it. But I think that my not like the way that I naturally am in a relationship is it's tough. Um. And again like I'm super lucky because I have met incredible women in my life that have taught me so much, and one of them is is this. You know, my my current is is Bianca. Um, she's just she's been so incredible in so many ways. But UM, just like having someone to kind of basically re teach me this is the stuff that I should have been taught like thirty years ago. Well, allowing yourself to be loved is not that easy for certain people, especially you're on the you know, you're on the road, you're doing this and you're goal oriented, and it's hard to stop down and just be porous and allow yourself to be loved. So I really do understand that that makes perfect sense based on your background. So that's good. So that you're doing that now, that's amazing trying to do the work. Yeah, that's awesome. This was so wonderful to talk to you. I really and I really do love talking to athletes. I spoke to Maria Sharapova and Lindsey Vaughan and Gabrielle Reason. It's just like a yeah, there's it's a very interesting type of person, just like a very solid person. So I'm from my experience here. So I've enjoyed this very much. I appreciate you. Thank you, Yeah, thank you, I appreciate it. Good luck. The book is hard, pivot. I just realized the double entendres. So I love the name and I'm excited for you. So congratulations, and I hope this helps. But it was a great conversation. I loved talking to Apollo. What an interesting conversation. He is so strong, so solid, so sage uh. And I've really liked talking to the serious competitive athletes. I find that to be a gift, and I'm so honored and grateful that I've gotten to share with you some of their wisdom for really striving and battling the odds and still thriving and succeeding, because that's a real that's just a real challenging road. I mean, it's just you do it or you don't. There's no gray in sports. If you want or you lost. So I think it's been really interesting speaking to the competitive athletes. So I appreciate you, rate, review and subscribe. Another wonderful day, and I'm just so grateful, So thank you. Have a good day. Just b is hosted by me Bethany Frankel. Just be as a production of Be Real Productions, I Heart Radio and Blue Duck Media. Are EPs are Morgan Levois, Antonio Enriquez, and Kara hit to Catch more moments from the show, follow us on Instagram and just be with Bethany