Just B with Bethenny FrankelA Bethenny Podcasts Special Edition: Jill Zarin and Bethenny Frankel Reunited
Bethenny and Jill.
Together!
They’ve had their ups and downs. You’ve seen their drama play out on TV… But, right here, right now, they are reuniting. Unedited. Anything can happen.
Bethenny mentions it all and so does Jill.
We are getting the details behind every single thing that has been unanswered these past 13 years.
So I have something up my sleeve tonight for you guys. This has been a really great podcast experience overall, and it's been amazing to connect with new people. And something crazy happened this weekend. I'm just going to tell you something crazy happened this weekend. And my fiance and I were in the car and he had an idea and he said to me, I have a terrible idea. You're going to hate it. And he told me the idea and I don't know why. I will figure out later why, but I just said, let's go, and it escalated into a full scale production. It started with like a see it of an idea two o'clock fifty two hours ago, and here we are, for the first time ever, I am having a housewife on my podcast tonight, all of my podcasts. I've never had somebody on all of my podcasts in one night. This is an extravaganza explosion. So drum roll, please welcome Jill Zarn.
Wow, thank you for having me.
I almost just start crying because I just it all just like it's been a thing, honestly thirteen years, thirteen years, and this weekend was something else. Just this like it's just been manic and thinking about this and now we're doing it. So we're gonna like slowly go through it. So first of all, Ali's here, Gary's here, Jill is here with I mean, they're here with Jill, and thank you for being here. You are all hearing. We've had some small talk and like just wardrobe changes and stuff, because within four minutes Joe was in my bedroom changing into another outfit. So we haven't spoken, but we I've seen her nude, so that's good. Look good that you looked at Yes, you look amazing.
Talk about that.
So but first, thank thank you for doing this, for trusting me. And let's we're going to get into all of it. So we're going through. We're mentioning it all. We both need to get a hobby, and we are mentioning it all. So this is Bethany and Jill reunited for the first time since twenty ten Barack Obama was president, and I remembered.
How crazy is that?
How crazy is that?
And I remembered the you and I were together at Sylvia's Harlem when he won the election and Harlem went crazy.
And I have pictures of us there. I should do. I'll give him to post.
Give him to me. Okay, all right, So Friday, I just want to set you up because I still Jill doesn't know the story.
She just came.
We have not spoken at all since she got this.
Deliberately don't let you knew.
We were speaking like without speaking, like your mind what you I wasn't calling you, and I first thought like should I call her because it seems insulting, But like I just stayed quiet and you stayed quiet, and we'll hear my comment.
I talked about that in the pre interview in the other room. I actually mentioned something a little bit something about me.
We were like quietly dancing and like without any you know what I'm saying, Like we weren't talking.
No, but there's a history there that you don't know about, like for me, Oh okay, we'll.
Get into it. Okay, Well, we'll get there. If you want take notes, if there's something you might miss. You know what I'm saying, Like is that a real pen? It feels like not a real pen? Okay, okay, So it's like there's something you want to say, just write it down.
We'll get there.
There's no this is oh hi, everyone, this is live and unedited Okay, So there's a history with live and being edited and you're not wanting someone to like mince your words or mix things together, which can happen on reality TV. So I've also never done a live and unedited. I've never had a housewife. I've never had someone be on all the podcasts. I've never had someone too much.
What do you mean? But I'm confused, and maybe I'm the only one confused when you say all the podcasts and so I.
Have I have a Housewives University where I talk to the person if we get to it, about their business and like give them a grade. You're here, So I'll be like on Zaren Fabrics, I think it was this, like it's Housewives University. Is that a separate podcast only it's all on the same feed and it's all part of my podcast, But it's like marketed is like a different in a different way.
I didn't know that. Yes, So I want to definitely be in that school with Allison.
Yes, okay, Allison could be in that school. So and Re rants we can just talk about the state of what we think the Housewives and how it's changed. Rewives We're going to talk about the new show and then this is you know, but it's gonna be available. This is just me and this is our reunion. So that's like how I just but I've never had someone to my house before to do the podcast. I've never done this, so I've never had guest. So there's a lot of first tonight and I've never done a live and unedited a podcast. But we're all going with God and trusting it. So Friday, Paul and I were doing a lobster roll, a lobster salad crawl for YouTube. So we went to like five places, and you know, Paul's very level and I'm very like activated, and I don't need more activation and I don't need more projects and more work, and you know, when we're together, it's kind of we want to try to like be calm and brings on here this weekend. So it's just gonna be like a relaxing weekend, jump in the ocean, lay around, watch TV like nothing of the weekend, maybe go out to one meal. So Friday, and Paul's the one who had the idea to do rewives to begin with. He kept not the name and not the concept that it is now, but he kept saying, you gotta do it. You gotta do a podcast about everyone's doing that. And it took me six months to decide. So Paul was saying to me in the car, he said, I have a He said to me at two o'clock on Friday, I have a terrible idea. And he hasn't two o'clock Friday day, Monday. It's Monday.
So when did you call me? Saturday?
Amy from my heart called you Friday. And we were supposed to do this Sunday yesterday, but there was a torrential storm that blew my house up like it was really so Friday, Paul said, let's I have a terrible idea. You're gonna hate it. And he doesn't know much about you. He only knows what I've told him. He's never seen one half of an episode. And I said what he said? He said, he's here, but he said, you should rewatch the new show with Jill Zarin and wow, and people have asked a million things for me to do. He looked at me in the car, were sitting in the car and the King Colin parking lot, and I looked at him and.
I said, let's fucking go.
And I said, and we have a YouTube series that we produced that we literally pay to do. It's a joke or like paint. It's like the movie. The producers like, we're paying for this fluff. Yes, and and we're and and we have the muppets that they're all here that shoot it and we go and do these crawls and these things that it has definitely not been monetized.
That Bethany Frankel just admitted she's got actually like a boss. There's somebody in Who's the boss? No, No, like Paul like not in. I was like, what I mean, is someone you actually respect and listen to? That's what I mean.
Not I mean like you like.
Paul thought this, and I agreed, and Paul thought that I've never heard well I haven't seen him in a long time, but there's never been someone that I knew in your life that you will like, would respect enough.
And I respect him and he compliments me, and we're good at very different things. And it was a new for me. It was a superb idea and it then escalated into a snowball of us shooting it for YouTube so I won't be able to see everything. I knew that we would have to give it to them. And there are questions about is this authentic? Am I really doing this because of me? Am I only doing like because of the show? Am I only doing it because of that show? We can get into all of that, mention it all, but and there is some part of that because otherwise, why are there camry our cameras here and why and why are we doing it for my podcast? We could do it in the backyard. So it's a whole mixed bag, and we're going to get into all of it. And we are both here to be open books. You agreed to be honest, honest, so that's setting you up to get here to my house, and I want to know you're going to be one hundred.
Percent honest, honest.
Okay, So what was going through your mind when you got the phone call to do this? Uh?
I was surprised, but I wasn't going to be impulsive, maybe because I'm medicated now and I wasn't thirteen years ago in a good way because I I have you know, not OCD. I was gonna say, oh, I don't have OCD, I have anxiety. I definitely had an anxiety disorder when you knew me for sure, I mean you could tell just the way I couldn't and manic.
Also you get manic too, what.
It was, but you see, how have you been with me now for two hours? Have you seen that?
Yes, like there's little spurts of it. But I'm more like that than you. I always was like that, So the two of us together.
Was like but not now now I can actually balance that interesting, Yes, at least I think I can.
Maybe I'm delusion on myself.
So you look great, and Jill showed up in a sweatsuit because I'm wearing a dress that's thirty dollars from Express, and neither of us did our hair and makeup. I thought you would show up in full glam and like.
No, I had my makeup done but light, oh okay.
Not like and then and then you didn't like your outfit because you were wearing something you would probably wearing, like a very a private plane, because it was.
A right no no, But I thought we were sitting here doing this, only I didn't realize that they were other things. And so when we were taking photos, because I didn't think it through. Honestly, I didn't as much because you've been in it for forty eight hours, fifty two hours thinking, thinking, thinking, I've been just thinking to myself, go with the flow, just be there, be present, that's all I'm I.
Didn't want that was intentional. And also I wasn't gonna put on a ball gown at my house because that's everything I don't like about housewives now. And I also wasn't going to ambush you with interesting word in full hair makeup and look like, oh hi, you know it's.
Just not But I also should know that you'll always look beautiful because you are beautiful, and you wore a pretty dress. Whether it's thirty dollars or three thousand dollars doesn't matter. You look beautiful. So I felt a little underdressed, underdressed, especially since we're putting out a nice photo. I wanted to look pretty and it was so nice and opened your closet. No, of course I wanted to like level it. The last thing I want is you distracted about your outfit. You know what I'm saying, So okay, So you agree to do that, and I knew, wait, let me ask the question. So you asked me what I thought of when you call exactly? So one of the things that went through my mind fast, and this is what I did write it down.
Was you had a talk show years ago. We were in a different place.
It was still not right after what happened, but within five something years or whatever, and I got a call from one of your producers to do your show, and I was excited about it. But I said to me, you know what, I really want to hear from Bethany, because at that point I hadn't spoken to you for one time, not even it was before Bobby passed, so I had not seen.
You for a big, long run. It's been now. Really, I say that this is now.
I don't feel like that any Like I saw you on a plane and it was comfortable.
But this is the first time we've been alone since twenty ten. We were at Bobby's funeral. Yes, we were like, it's only shatter, this is like real talk, you know, it's different.
Well, was still not alone because it's still them full of people.
But fair But that's fair, right, Like if you and I were Candy Kitchen without a camera or mic that and no phones.
That's fair. That's fair.
The last time I felt like I was alone with you was when you came to my house when Bobby died. When you came to my apartment, Brinn and Ali right exact. I still felt like you and I were alone in my own head. Anyway, it doesn't matter.
That's a distraction, so no, that should be changed on the post.
So anyway, So no.
So the first thing that I thought of was that somebody called me on your behalf and I said, if Bethany calls me, then I'll do it.
And he never called me back.
Interesting, So that went through my head and I said, yeah, it's timing two days time. Yes, So I went through my head, is okay? Do I said to myself, do I say to that person if Bethany called, I repeat that? And I said, no, why set myself up to fail. There's a reason why she didn't call. But she called that she.
Wanted me to come on. So she was giving me an olive branch.
And that's okay, And that's something maybe wouldn't it been okay ten years ago. I think I'm in a different I'm more mature, I'm not jaded. I there's nothing for me to win or lose. It's just a.
Different Nobody has anything you want, I say, Paul, is no one has anything right.
That I can't get myself. If I want it, and I don't do anything I don't want to do like you do. I'm at a point in my life age, money, success, I don't do anything I want to do anyway.
I was open.
To it, but I said, but instead of being impulsive saying yes or no, I say, can I call you back? I want to talk to Ali because now that I have a thirty year old daughter instead of a thirteen year old daughter, I used to be her boss. Now she's my boss, right, But she's always been the one to look at things from a different point of view. And her first reaction was, of course you should do it.
And she knows me, and we saw I saw her with Brannet's surflage and absolutely absolutely, but.
She said, of course you should do it, and that's it. That's all it took.
Well, I wasn't even entire when Paul said it. I just was instantly thought. I just thought it was a good idea. And also, you have a husband, you have a thirty year old daughter. I can't even believe you just said that sentence, like, I have a fiance, I have a daughter. That's you told me that.
Alerson was thirteen when we became close friends. Not when we met, because we probably met when you she was ten or something. But when we became close friends, Ali was thirteen. It was after her Bot mits for though, because that wasn't on the show, so she was between thirteen and fourteen.
So how do you recall us meeting? I My first recollection is you coming up to me in a movie theater after I'd been on The Apprentice and you were with a friend.
That's what I remember, okay, But then you told me that we met at Nobu with Elise Slaine.
That was later. We all went together after that movie theater. Then we all had dinner at Nobu with Elise Slain. Housewives inside, which is also weird because she came on the show not because of you, right, no, no, and not because of me. Oh right, interesting and shewife she was a housewife. And then I don't know, I've never I've written it in books, but we were never speaking. And I'm sure you've heard what I wrote about the day that I was in the outfit at Polo when I got cast on the show. So let me tell you my election, he said. She said. My recollection is I was in the Hampton's in my little white juicy terry cloth romper and I was in a relationship and I was hawking my Bethany bakes cookies and I was running from Super Saturday coming over to Polo. I don't know how I got in because I don't know anybody then.
And that was a big deal back then. Now, tool, you couldn't pay me to go because we're older and wiser.
But they gave me a bracelet like to get and I guess you could get a gift back exactly.
That was a big deal.
And you came in and I later and you came in and you saw me, and you said, literally, it was just foreshadowing to my cocktail. You said, where'd you get that? Where'd you get the VIP bracelet? You skinny bitch? Okay, you said where'd you get the vipace? And I was like, I don't know, and I really don't know if I remember, and I remember Lance Bass was there that day and there was a tent and then you said, like, we're doing a reality show that about moms who can't get their kids into private school or something like that. And you said, and the producers are here, and Bobby's here, and we want you to meet them, and I was like, I don't even I'm not even in a very serious relationship, like I'm gonna be on a show about women getting their kids into private school like And then you said it because you have always these big ideas. And then I don't you like, set it and forget it. And then Bobby brought Kira Brings over to me and we all had a conversation about it, and I.
Don't remember the beginning everything you said. I don't remember any of it. The only thing I remember is Bobby saying to me beth Andy would be great on the show.
And I said, yeah, but she's not married.
She's it's like it's for moms, and he goes like it doesn't matter. And then I went for the hard cell with you. I was literally selling you doing the show right then and there, saying it do You said to me, I don't have I'm not married, you know, but it doesn't matter. You want to be married, you want to have kids like that. I want to remember you said, but I said that right.
Also, it's more crazy because you brought a producer. I did rolls Royce Tipolo because Bravo was going to shut the show down. They didn't want they wanted a fifth wife. They didn't want you guys were ready filming, but they were like, we need a fifth wife. They weren't filming already. You were ready filming. You did before me. There was like they had to cut me back in at the tennis match and put me in it because I was there like a month later. They'd been filming, but it wasn't a real show and they spent no money.
So I'll fix that one. So we filmed the Fourth of July party. I know you were there. I had a Fourth of July party and.
I was at the first party. You had a first party, and you guys, you're right.
I had a first that was thought of July where we were dancing in the house at night, and Ramona was like, I was later, came in the.
Kitchen with your aunt or sister someone a friend and we were talking later. It doesn't that's the man. I just know that Bravo wanted the fifth wife, but they wanted a wife who was a wealthier looked wealthier.
And I remember talking to Andy and convincing him and you know what's so funny, and it kind of bothered me a little bit.
Later on you know later later on.
Somebody once asked Andy in an interview, which housewife calls you the most? And by the way, this wasn't like after I was on the show. This was many, many years later, after he's had many many other shows, many many other wives. Like I'm a housewife number six. That's what I call myself, because they were five Orange County and then I was like, number six, okay, and you can literally number them all.
You were probably number seven.
Oh, I like that. That's fine, right.
So I would say this one hundred housewives already, and.
Someone said to him one hundred and eighty I think or something.
So someone said to Andy, asked Andy, who who calls you the who's called you the most in whatever? And he said, Jill's Aaron. And I'm thinking to myself, first of all, that cannot possibly be true. I was on the show for four years. There's been a thousand housewived.
It might have been at that time, at that moment, but at that time, that's what I'm saying.
But there was so many.
And then the other thing what I said to myself, and yeah, you know why I was calling you so much because I was trying to get Bethany on the fucking show.
Oh that's back. Oh that was a long time.
Do you remember how many calls I'm like trying to sell you and I'm trying to sell this one. Yes, I was on the phone with him and lean on my own self.
But you didn't want. You wanted the show to happen so badly because they were not they were not sure they were going to continue. And you took a producer in the rolls Ars and you go, let's go to Polo and the Hamptons. We'll find a housewife.
No, that's what she said. Well this is what happened.
Well this one, Bravo wanted to get another housewife, and they wanted They sent Cure to the Hamptons to do it. Okay, they put her in a motel out in Montalk because on a map, you know where I lived, and Water was very close to Montalk. It's like an hour and a half in traffic. So I said to her, listen, don't tell Bravo stay in my house.
I have.
Staying in her house because I was being nice. Bravo never knew that I put her in my house because they wouldn't like it, or in your trunk exactly. No, So I said to her, well, I'll introduce you to everybody. Let's go, and I took her to Paulo, I took her wherever I could to find people. I networked the whole post. I know, obviously, but that's how she got to my head.
Money, get me a housewife, have to get the plane to take Ali. Yeah, so that is why. So it is Jill and Bobby why I was on the house if that is the true story. And Kira Brings deserves a shout out because she I didn't want to do the show. How about I said no. Oh, that's why there was another couple of weeks or months because I said no right after she came and shot me. And then I said no because I was in a relationship with the guy. Didn't want to be were worried about him, Yes, he was whatever, And so I said no, And you guys kept shooting, and I was I keep forgetting. I was intrigued by it, so I kept thinking about it.
And I'm not selling you to do it. It's gonna be good for your brand. It's going to be good for you. And I'm telling Andy you got it. Have Bethany it doesn't matter that she was on the Apprentice. That's you know, it doesn't matter. It's a different network, it's a different day, and she's so funny.
There's only one b Well, I appreciate it.
No, And by the way, since then, there's never been anyone who that kind of sense of humor. Oky, Okay, So I want this is why you'd be really honest. So knowing that you were very largely responsible for me being on the show, I mean beyond like I'm saying, very largely because Bobby and Kira were also part of it, you know, like absolutely very largely your your little pod plus Kira was entirely responsible for me being on the show. Did you later resent my success and like what I made out of it?
Did you feel okay?
Not only did I not resent your success, what I resented was that you didn't want to share anything with me.
I was happy for you.
But do you know this one thing I remember that I don't want to say hold on too, because I don't hold onto, but I'll tell you it's something I remember. I want to see if you remember this. I remember when you were starting out, and you know, I'm obsessed with private plans. I don't have to tell you that.
I know.
I was just talking about the big PP on the show.
Right.
You said to me that if I do two million dollars, If I make two million dollars, I'm going to take you on a private plane. And I remembered it, and I was like, is she going to remember?
Well, now I'm going to do it because I didn't have two million dollars when we were still friends.
No, that is true. No, No, but I'm saying, I wonder if she'll remember that it.
No, but I remember we were talking in Darren Fabrics about the PP and the private plane and.
All that obsessed obsessed.
Well that's that's honest, and that's honest. Especially you did.
You've done things that I've wanted to do. Like right after we, you know, had our fight and you had your own show, you did you took an r V trip.
Do you remember that on your show?
Oh?
On the bus you did this RV? Yeah, al, the tour bus.
Is that my dream? My dream is an RV. So I'm like, oh my god, she's like living my dream.
But we weren't friends then.
No, But you know what I I I felt so bad that I missed your wedding, like I never thought that I wouldn't be there for your wedding, Like, no matter.
What, I always was so happy for you.
And I know I think it was hard for you to believe that someone could really be happy for you.
And act believe it. I believe. What I believe is I believe that I validate and acknowledge gatekeeping certain things. You made it very challenging to share certain things because if I told you, if I told you, if you said to me, what's that and I said, schlepimental sent it to me, you'd call them in five minutes and they might not have wanted me to like you, you were grabby. I'm gonna be honest.
I want you to be honest.
You were very grabby and like you, I did a show, and let's not be like, I don't know, it's okay because these are things. I'm glad I was hosting it and I was the first one to ever do that. And they were like Joe's Aaron wasn't very happy about this. She was like, why not you said that?
And never I don't know who said that, But I mean, I I'll own my ship and I do own my all my shit I never happened. I never there was never a show. First of all, I don't remember what the show was, but I remember you did say it on like the Today Show. Is something about that that there was that you had heard that I told somebody that I don't want you to have something that it should have been me. Never happens. Well, let's scar to you it is.
But let's just the fact that you that if there are two housewives over on whatever show right now and they're best friends, they leave the show, their friendship changes. It's just a very top sick environment that you are the first person I said think that ever said that word. But like, friendships are real, but it's terrible for a relationship. It's terrible for a friendship and all, it's terrible for a marriage. But also like you're a thoroughbred horse and you come out of that fucking gate and it's it's a zero sum game. It's someone's winning and someone's losing. If you are looking amazing, someone else in that fucking scene is looking like shit. You don't know that until watching the show. My point is everybody on that's having these different experiences, especially in the beginning. It's like the fucking running of the bulls. So whatever I'm getting everybody's worried about.
Get you were.
Panicked going into one season. I don't have a thing. What's my thing to close?
Closed?
No, meant like a thing. You were felt like the race had started. I understand this by the way I would feel the same way the race had started. I knew what I wanted to do. I knew what I wanted my business to be. And at that point in that show, you were aware because you were watching what was happening. You were aware that, like you wanted to be monetizing it too. In some way. I don't mean this is.
Jealous, for sure. I mean I could, I could write a book about fomo. No, totally have fomo. But this is the difference, okay.
No, I mean you wanted to utilize the experience because the clock had started. We were an entrepreneur, absolutely saying, and you couldn't find the thing, and I needed help figuring out what that thing was. It took me like ten years, but it's just not easy in the moment someone has a gun to your head to say what the thing is.
Carol Rads, your thing really started after we were friends.
Nobody evolved. I was a chef, cook in your kitchen, and then the low calorie thing, and I was It's just.
There's no question, and I there's no question that I wanted. I like to learn from other people and I do get fomo. But the one thing about the show, I never wanted my own show. I loved being an ensemble. And I think that you might have thought that I wanted like my own thing, and I was jealous that you got your own show.
I was never just I.
You never wanted to the powers that be in a way that was problematic, and it might have been about something else, and I don't want to do that, he said, she's because I just like you.
Though, unless it comes from me, from in life, unless you hear it from the horse's mouth. And I think you know now with life experience, it's not always well, I don't know.
I mean, I guess because I'm thinking of it. We have to mention it all because the real breakdown happened, and often this happens on housewives, and I haven't said this has happened with Carroll and myself. The real breakdown. Now, keep in mind, audience that you're this is not now when people can go to literally Housewives University and study everything to wear and to do and become a professional housewife by the time they get on This is years. We were in a brand new thing, doing a brand new eye. You were making the rule book. I I don't know what you made. I made. I think we made hundred and fifty dollars. I was the first contract. Yep, okay. For the first season, I was wearing my me down turquoise used Ralph Laurence sweater in my living room, doing my own makeup. It was not what it is today. So we all weren't a new thing and it exploded, and Ramona knew it was gonna get Remember I did too. I remember, I did not.
I didn't even know what we did that New York Times I think was The York magazine. We did some photo shoot and I just remember Harper's Bizarre. Harper's Bizarre was the biggest one. You were freaking That was season two. Oh okay, no, But there was a point I don't know before we got on TV. I just remember looking at all of us saying, you know this is going to be this is going to be big.
I think this is going to be really big. And I didn't think it would be twenty years big, No going to be fair, Ramona. Not only did she call the ratings, but the way there was something else. I just lost my thoughts. But it was she thought the ratings were gonna be huge, but there was something else about you didn't think it was. Okay, I'll get there.
I have a question.
I don't mean to be out of order, but you brought up you brought up Carol's name. Do you think that Carol would do you think you could do this with Carol based on your friendship with her?
I don't want to do I mean, respectfully, I don't. I don't want to do this with Carol. It's just different. There's not it's not it didn't go as deep, Okay, I was just it was just and it got dirty or oddly. So it's it's not.
I'm just curious because you brought her name up. That's right.
No, I brought her name up because what I was trying to say to the audience is that, like, you get into this thing, you don't know what it is. You're experiencing fame for the first time. Oh, I said to somebody, this could be a cultural phenomenon. Claire Mercury, who was Billy Joel's publicism, she said, it's not stop. It's not going to be a cultural phenomenon anymore than the guy from the liquor company that I said skinny Girl could be a fuck you brand. He's like, shut up, I don't know what you're talking about. But it became a cultural phenomenon. But we were in the beginning of it. And oh, Ramona was right about New York did. She doesn't have good messaging, as Paul often says, I don't, but she said that New York really put the house was on the map, not Orange County was first. But we were in im Media City, the show was being filmed in the.
Press was on us.
We got the Harpers bizarre, I know it was different. So she but no, shame on them. I mean they they broke you know, they they started.
It, no question. I'm just saying she stumbled on our words. But because you don't need to and not everything needs to do else.
I remember from that first season this. I told this to Gary today. Do you remember Linda Stossi from the New York Post. She used to write their reviews. Okay, so when the first the show first came out, and the ratings came out, and people writing reviews. I opened up because I used to read that every day, and I'd opened it up and it had four things right, and I was so excited. And I remember calling someone up saying, oh my god, we got four stars on page on, you know, in the New York Post. And they looked like, Jill, she's not four stars, it's four garbage can she trashed.
You couldn't even have more.
So there's four stars and then there's one garbage can. I'll pay one thousand dollars for Jill to say garbage. We had four Paul's laughing, like Paul's faces read. Paul and Garrett are sitting next to each other, like I need a picture of that. Okay, that's beyond They're They're sitting next to another, laughing.
Cover the belly, Honey, cover the belly.
Okay, Paul. If I ever said that's to Paul, he would be in a therapist's office for ten years.
He just SATs kidding me.
Okay, so so no. But what I was gonna say to you was the off season. It happened with Carol too. The off season is when your mind gets crazy, you're still living in all the garbage that lived in the last season. You're ready to go the next season. And Bobby had had a health scare. Sorry Gary talking about Bobby. It's just nory.
Gary talks about it more than Bobby because we He has utmost respect for Bobby's am right, and I compare him all the time.
So Bobby had had a health scare, but it felt like it was all being teed up for next season, and I respect that as much as I respect today. I was teeing everything up for this. I didn't like talk to you that much before. I wanted it to be here. And when you're doing this sport, your mind gets fucked, no more no less than Kyle and Mauricio getting the cameras up the Sandovals. Your mind gets fucked and you don't know the difference between what you should be doing private life.
I always had a problem with that betening what was real what was fake? When we had that thing with was what.
Was real, what was content? I don't mean fake y.
So when I went to Ramona's house, and I call it being ambushed because I had no clue.
First of all, I didn't know your father was sick.
I didn't know any of that because you know, there was no social media then, so it wasn't like I could open up a book and you know, And of course I know what Bethany is because she tells everybody.
That's also that part, isn't it to be on. I'm gonna be as honest as I can possibly be in the same way that you used the Bobby card a little bit. That was a card my father's sick. Like I didn't really like my father.
I'm not gonna say that.
But the whole group, that's what happens on the housewise, what happens on that father just died, And so I'm like, of course it's a thing, your fucking killer be killed. So it's like, yeah, I didn't say, but I mean by that I wanted to have a real That's not entirely true. My father dying was a thing in my life because it was a complicated relationship. It wasn't like I was having a Mardi Gras party. It was upsetting, But certainly I know the fact that you came over and we weren't in a good place. It's it's it's like, it's it's layering it on and I you let you used the she didn't visit Bobby, and like then I was like having to calculate the flowers I sent and all that shit. That's the fucking house.
Wise because you know why bethaned it because I couldn't tell the real truth, the real truth of why I was mad at you, because they were the reason I was mad at you, because you know, I know you said get a hobby or whatever. The reason I was mad at you is because I was hurt, and maybe I didn't, you know, I didn't express it.
I didn't. I was hurt that I was losing you and I was being left out of everything.
And I know you say it in it's a different way, but like I remember when you went on vacation, you got invited for a free trip, and I wanted not for the free trip.
I wanted to like be with you, you know what I mean.
And then I was on your bed and I was broke, and you did take me into your home.
And I never counted that.
I never did.
I never cared about that Bobby fed me or whatever, but I never said that just you know, I never said I don't even care. It was true, I had no plan. I don't know, but I never said it.
It wasn't that's not something.
What I cared about is that I felt I lost you, and I couldn't really say that I was hurt by things that you had said, like there was there was something you were on the Today Show.
I'll never forget it.
And I interviewed you, and maybe you were mad at me at the time, and they said, well, how did you get on the show, And you said a producer found me, And that was like a dagger to No.
That was the crux because I read about that in New York Magazine. That's when you were like, okay, all bets are off, and you mentioned it in New York Magazine, and I had said it many places, and to this day, I've said it in my book that you brought me on the show, and.
I know you have.
But that day, no, I believe that you felt left out. I believe that you were. I don't like the word jealous, let's use a better word. I believe you were slightly envious and confused by all that was.
I wanted to come along with me, and I believe I wasn't envy that I wanted it. I wanted to do it with you, not like being your partner.
I remember you.
Said to me, I wanted to do a talk show.
I said, well, I would never want to do a talk show talk show with you, but I would love to be a guest on once a week.
Do you remember that?
Like that, I don't want to be remembered. To my mind is going, I don't want to be equal. I just like wanted to be part of I know you wanted us to go and be Lucian Ethel the whole way, and I think I wanted to be a solo. Yes, yeah, and that's the crux. Say no, but that was the crux, right, and you also wanted the credit of that you got me on and like you didn't get it there and it just knocked it and then and then your face my opinion as a person that I said, Paul Paul's our camera guy was saying before, like what is this in sports?
Who is this?
And like meaning if I'm I'm if, I'm if I'm Todd Michael Jordan, if she Sky Pippen, And then he's like, is she a Hall of Fame player? I'm like she would have been in the Hall of fame. I think she fumbled the ball. She would have been, she is a Hall of Fame player. But I think she fumbled the ball because you would have been and you wouldn't have maybe wanted the whole go the whole way and your life became better. But I'm saying you, I think wanted.
There was a moment, right.
You know you are an excellent you are an excellent housewife. But I'm saying to you your fatal error was having all It's like a it's like a wave cresting through the off season. That's when the fucking mind goes crazy. And you came in hot at that fashion show, not talking to me all summer about you weren't there for Bobby, and you saved it and you brought it in, but I would it. But you know what would have resolved this show.
Let me say the biggest different of all where everything would have changed had you done season four and not gone on your own.
We would have made.
Up interesting the show.
That's why all the other shows, but.
It would have been We would have but it would have gotten dirty, and it would have been for the show because it's not your mind, because you can't be.
Real unless That's where I got fumed up because when I went to Ramona's that day and got ambushed. The reason why, and that was one like when people say, what would you do differently? Okay, Well number one is I would not I would have made up with you on that sofa, but I wanted to make up with that.
You wouldn't have made up with me for real, you really felt the way you felt based on it.
I did know everything I did was real, right, but I'm just saying that now that I know better. Right as a housewife, I would never have let that opportunity to go. But I also didn't know that there's no okay, your father passing away, you getting pregnant, and there was one other thing that happened, was it moving or whatever. It's like I could never come back out of that, like I.
Can never like you can't get in. I couldn't get it. As much as you want us to do things together now you're an outside, not just that.
And then when I went I remember when I found out you were engaged. We were at a party like a club or something. I remember too, and I wanted I didn't know I was waiting for Bobby because I was like again, but the ambush. Jill doesn't do well with surprises. That's what made me a great housewife because anytime you surprised me, I couldn't handle it.
Yeah, but we were in a sport also, and you had dropped the boat. No, I didn't. What do you mean I knew, but I didn't know.
I'm saying I know, I knew, an I was just waiting for Bobby to go over to congratulate you. But again it was too late, Like if I had done it ten minutes earlier, I would have been and then the next day I'm sending you flowers, I'm doing everything.
It was too late. But also, let's be honest too, Bravo was telling you, Bravo knew this was a bad idea, and Bravo was saying, you need to make up with her. This isn't gonna be good, bra But I tried to explaining to people have the sausage ie, like this is fucked up. This is why this is this White people.
By the way, that's not true. You know Andy says that I told you to make up with Bethany.
That's not true.
Well, Andy told me to marry Jason. Here we go, No, no, by the way, no, but that's not true.
I don't remember him ever saying to me until it was too late, like November. We started filming, by the way, like in August September, and we finished at the end of December, So mid November he said to me how to make up with Bethany. It was already too late. It was after the same time.
Just said no. But I think that no. I also think you were coming into the next season and you had no You were coming into the fashion show season with all this bubbling up about New York Magazine, and I didn't give you the credit, and you walked in. You came in hot, and they probably were like, just like me and Carol, this should get resolved before the season. They probably didn't want you to come in. They wanted Lucy and Ethel.
I think who they didn't.
But anyway, the point is is that I definitely made mistakes, and I wanted to be there for you when you, you know, got pregnant and all that stuff, and you just want to let me in like that was it?
Why didn't you want to let me back in?
Every time I every time I did something it became public. I sent a freaking gift basket for Bobby. It became public. Everything that happened you then would later leak if you didn't get the result you wanted, like if the next week we weren't friends or made a sound. I don't remind I know that, I know. I'm listening.
I'm not arguing.
It's fine. It's not hostile. You're not arguing. It's just arguing with you. But here's like, let's set the scene. Something happens, we see each other. There's a little olive branch. You said to me, I'm sorry that Dennis passed away, or congratulations on your baby. We start talking. Then I just kind of like, either blow you off or don't go to your gift bag party or something I don't want to do. And then it becomes you get a little hurt.
You go.
People get hurt, and they go and they retaliate and not intentionally, but someone asks you a question and you're always honest, You're unfiltered, so you tell them and then I'm like, fucking I gotta live the gift basket that I sent to Bobby and the thing I just didn't want. You know, Listen, this whole day is curated today here and it's orchestrated. But I'm not into like you tomorrow, and I know you wouldn't. There's no question. I am totally trust you. I know your revolt. I think we've changed. I know what we talked about on the plane, but back then it felt like everything was a little bit of converse, you know what.
I was a different person ten years ago.
Yeah, and I do.
That's why we're here now, absolutely, And I want you to know, like even the last couple when you came to my apartment with Bobby, you know, when Bobby died and I said I'm not going to say anything to anyone. I never did, and like that would have been something that, of course, you know, to tell someone. I never told anybody, only when it came out.
But there were a couple of things that you would say later. When it came out. You were like, I think she maybe just want no no. But that was after it came out on the show. I was so devastated. I had no idea that you were going, and I remember that I was going. You were wearing this gorgeous silver jacket, so I remember to the funeral. No, no, you came to my apartments to pace with Britain. Okay, I said to you, I'm not going to tell anybody you were here like this means so much to me, and my sister was there and now it was there. And by the way you can hear I'm telling my flaws. I'm telling you it meant a lot to me too, and I love Allan. We always had a close relationship, and I wanted her to see Britain. I was so excited when she started the Serfflage and I wanted to be there and we can we're going to go through that hole how that happened. But I wanted to be there, And but that doesn't mean that tomorrow I want to get married, like I'm a Paul and I were at a story.
No, we didn't know. What I'm saying is that I was shocked that it was on the show. I had no idea that you were leaving me to go film, that you were at my house. Oh god, I'm in the fucking sewer. I had, Oh.
Yeah, well but you can't, so you can't can't.
But what do you mean, But I've been off the show for years. I had no idea.
Hold on, hold on, you just didn't know.
I didn't know you were filming that just filmed the funeral.
I didn't know that.
Hold on a minute.
Can we talk about this? Yes, because I back up.
With them and give them in small bites there and she knows, hold on small bites. Small Bikey Cohen texts me, calls me. I'm in a nail salon in Aspen, says, Bobby passed away. I loved Bobby. That is a side like, not a side thing.
No, I believe it.
I know you did.
I quote him all the time, but Bobby one more.
That's it he was.
I loved Bobby, and he's here is a gentle soul.
Just be just be.
Oh my god, that's so funny. This is a sign behind me. Just piece just Bobby. So Andy says to me something about it, and I don't And and again this is me being a thousand percent.
I know when I heard you want to show kind of punt the ball to him when this came up, mh, Well, because you aren't gonna lie, and you just said listen and you answered the question Andy.
Oh, because he was trying to make it like the show, but I think he was making it like I knew what was going on. No, but you were you did. I think that we First of all, Bobby liked the show. It was part of our experience. It's good content. It doesn't have anything to do with you being a good person loving you.
Wanted a film too. No, okay, let me tell you what happened. Okay, Okay.
Someone who worked for me, I'm not gonna mention his name, Andy tells me she Jill.
Says Bobby would have loved when he was hold On, let's get real. Andy said to me that when Bobby was in the cat in the in the in the hospital, or when he was sick, that you said to him, he would love to you to cover this or to see this or something like that he loved the show and that you wanted there to be cover ridge of like not meeting him being very sick but him Yeah, okay.
And he tells me something that's right to do, something that is true.
Okay. He said that it was an overall thing.
Yes, okay, that you but me. I'm gonna just tell you this, okay, but then you know this is the truth.
Hold on. But then he said in the thing, I'm just telling you what he said.
Then you can go.
You and he said Jill said, you can bring the ca you could bring the cameras to the funeral. That's what he said to me.
Not you said, okay, if that was true?
Okay.
Would they need a release from me to forget my voice on camera?
No? I know I have heard you say this.
Would they need a release from me?
Yes?
Yes, do they have one?
I don't know. I will tell you they do not because Barry Bernstein also says the same story.
Andy and I had dinner with Barry. Barry, and you know what Barry said to me. I know the truth. When I asked her, I said, you know, they don't have a release on me. She goes, I know, I said, so why did they do it? You know what she said to me. They counted on you not suing. I believe you, but I so. I I tell you there's no release, then you have to know I didn't know. If I'm telling you there's no release, I don't have to know. But if you tell me that you didn't know, I'm gonna believe you. I don't care about it release, but I don't want you to know because I'm Allison.
We don't need Allison.
I love you.
She wasn't even going to be down here like no, but she was at.
The I don't need it. When I saw you, I saw you walking out of the funeral, in the funeral, in the procession. When I was walking out after we had the funeral, and I was oh, and I saw you.
I died.
I had no idea you were this Christ. That's brutal for me.
Hold on, let me tell you what happened. Because I saw you, my heart dropped. I couldn't believe you were there. And you looked drop dead with this black hat and this black suit like and I was so happy, and I said, oh my god, I didn't know you were an aspen.
I knew nothing right you were there, and I was so happy. Okay.
Then I come downstairs and someone who works me, I say who or actually he didn't work for me then, but he was a friend, says to me, Beth, and he wants to talk to you before she leaves, and he grabs me and I walk over.
Who does this? Somebody that works with the crew, someone.
A friend of mine, he used to work for me. It doesn't matter. I okay, I'm telling you the truth, and I've got okay. Okay, So my sister was with me. Psychic Jen Jen was there. Ali was with me, and he was with me, and he says, Bethany wants to talk to you before she leaves. And I was so happy that you were there, and I came over. Now I did see cameras. I right there was TMZ. I had no I no, I didn't.
Know who the cameras were. Oh, I wasn't on a mic. You want a mic? I didn't know that.
Fascinating.
So when we hugged and all that, and I'm wearing bug glasses. You have to know I'm a little vain. If I knew I was being filmed, I wouldn't have looked like that. I still would have had mad.
So I literally I need a minute. I had need a minute. You need to know.
I had no idea.
Okay, I literally, if if I believe you and I hand to hand to God, should Bobby give me a second? Because I first didn't want anything to do, and then I didn't want to do with it, and then yes, I thought, she wants them there, and I know you and I thought and by the way, you weren't upset that it not. I didn't sue them because I wasn't the way they handled it. I'm going to get to how I really feel about that, and it's going to be fairly explosive and it's going to be a fairly big statement in a second, because I got to process that, because if I were home, I'd be like on a couch thinking I was I had no idea, because I what you're saying is I fucking ambushed a funeral for reality television.
Sorry, that's what Ramona was saying. Is now, of course I had no idea the cameras were going to be there. Forget the other. Okay, I'm just saying.
That nobody knew.
I didn't know, right, Okay, sod By the way, you know when I found out when it aired, when the commercial started in January, and I saw myself and you on every single fucking commercial, but the entire season was me and you make.
It enough, And I have no idea.
It's disgusted. I love you. I don't need al. I love you. Stop. You need to know there hand to go. Stop with Ali. You're alone and with me, and that's it.
Okay.
So because you I'm gonna lose my train of thought. So so that's disgusting. It was disgusting Okay, that's disgusting. That's literally the most disgusting thing I've ever heard. Now, just know that I don't know if I would have gone to the funeral if we weren't shooting it. I don't know, Like I don't know what I was going to do enough, only because it was a spectacle and it would have been a thing and fair enough. I remember, I don't remember. No, I'm saying it's the same thing we're saying this whole time. I don't know what not real, Okay, so I'm saying the truth. I don't know. But once it got going, I knew that it would be like so compelling in an amazing interesting moment. And again like seeing Allie, it was totally real when I saw you. I mean, I loved Bobby and it was real. I don't know, Just like I don't know that I wouldn't go to someone else's like me going to a funeral that would have become a circus because I'm going there isn't necessarily what I do. I would have gone to the Shiva, no question.
I believe you when you think I would have thought, because I was okay with it. Had I known about it, I might have been okay, exactly, you might have done it, but they had no idea. And that's why there's no wa because nobody ever called me after. I didn't know about it till it aired, and Barras they counted on me not suing because that I'm, you know, as they say, thirsty to come back and this and that, which wasn't true. But I don't want to bite the hand that fed me. Brabo was good to me. I felt that they handled it respectfully. The fact that I didn't know or didn't know the audience saw something that was a beautiful moment.
I was definitely taking advantage of, you know how, But because that's an ambush on me. If I show up to a funeral in a black hat and glasses and a dress and get out of the car and you say, what the hell are you doing here? How that would be like they that would be like the worst thing that like it's it's just a it's just a disaster.
The whole thing is disgusting.
And that could have gone that way because I didn't know, and I could have been disgusting and it's embarrassing. And it's why when I got together with Paul and he could see with a clear mind. He was like, what the fuck are you doing here? And the sewer and it's it's really disgusting. It's absolutely disgusting. That's disgusting. And I apologized because it was a spectacle in a circus and yes you know, and yes there's the lines are blurred, But like, I want to.
Back to why. So now you came to the Shiva call right not knowing that the funeral was filmed.
So I'm thinking you wanted us at the funeral. Now you're making a big deal that I was filming after the Shiva exactly who cause.
I had no idea you filmed the thing.
So now I'm like, wow, this is off the record, right, like we're going to keep this quiet. And you didn't say anything otherwise. And then when I saw the show, you were wearing the same silver jacket and I'm like, oh my god, she left my house and went to film after we just had this like real moment.
So nothing's really I get where you're coming from one hundred percent, and it was where to do and I but now you understand what I'm saying, why.
And I'm happy that you know now what really happened That's what I'm saying. You don't always know.
Think you know.
I think you. I thought you wanted the funeral to be covered, and you did admit.
That you want the funeral covered, but not without me knowing about it.
Right, okay?
But did you ask for them to caysk We asked them if there was I think the shiva.
We wanted to have the girls come over. You're a shiver.
The person who worked for you called them and said she would be open to.
The doing shiving.
You know what happened. You want to know how horrible it is. Roddy fifty shades agree though a person saying you're welcome to the ship.
The part is knowing and not knowing. I didn't know that you were there to film. I had no idea. I thought you were there for real because I didn't know the cameras were there.
That is an ambush, right okay? Okay?
I mean is so crady, But let me talk about the shive. And this is what hurt me.
Also is that I invited the girls over whether and they wanted to film it. I didn't care if they filmed it or not. They wanted to film it. And I said, well, you can't really film the real Shiver. That's not okay. It has to be on Friday after when they faced when they found out. Listen, when the girls found out that you filmed, because they didn't know you filmed either, by the way, miss Okay, your co stars and they told you this. They didn't know that you were bringing cameras to Bobby's funeral.
When they found listen, who from them?
Hold on?
When they found out, you know what they said to Bravo, We're not going to Jills to shoot Shiv.
And I was hurt because I'm like, and that's also not real. It's more bullshit.
No, but it was okay when I said to Plavo, right, you're not on purpose. What I'm saying is so I wanted Bobby's funeral to be covered in some way that he passed, not the funeral. I wanted his passing to be recognized on the show, even though I was off the show and coming to pay their respects.
That a SHIV call was the way to do it.
Funeral life, and they told me they wouldn't do it, and they didn't tell me why. They just said that they didn't. They couldn't come on Friday period. That was it when it all happened and came out, and I called.
Okay, I.
Would have liked the girls to come over on that Friday afternoon after real Shiv.
It was a over to film.
Just coming to pay their respects, to say that Bobby passed, how great he was, talk about memories, show a little bit of footage and the end. I wouldn't get paid. I didn't ask for any money ever. I just asked, wanted that covered. When they called me back, the producers said, the girls can't come.
They're busy.
Wow, okay, this one can't come. Sonya can't come, Ramona can't come.
I was hurt.
It is what it is. Now fast forward I see the commercial of you and me and I'm like, what the fuck is this?
Oh my god?
Then I see I call up.
I don't remember the order, but somehow I got a hold of Ramona or Lawanne and they said, no, we weren't going to come because Bethany covered the funeral and we didn't know we would have. We were there, Jill, they were there, Ramona came, Lewanne came, Derenda came. They all came to the funeral. They weren't on the show at the funeral. They were mad that they didn't get recognized as showing up.
By the way at the funeral. Okay, that's funny to you hearing this, No, I'm hearing this. No, it connects because also the girls later were making it like, oh, you you go to a you you you exploit the funeral on camera.
They just were mad it wasn't there. They were mad they weren't there. So that's where they they.
Punished.
I don't want to say me, And they wouldn't come respect Bobby because they were mad that you did it by yourself and didn't ask.
But hold on, let me take them. Man. You believe all of this story and convoluted and confusing, and we don't want to get stay in the weeds too long. But I will say that I think it's the funniest that the girls got mad at me that they were playing a supporting role, not a leading role. That's the funeral.
They wanted to be stars of the ship. Not all of them were, by the way.
I'm not going to I didn't know because they all stood on a big soapbox about that. I went to the funeral on cameras. Some of them did not all of them, so a soapbox, right, Derenda and Ramona did, yeah, exactly. Okay, all right, let's take a breath, just for a true seconds. Okay, okay, that's a lot, right, so let's take a breath.
So what.
Do you think it's like to have a friendship on the Housewives?
You know what?
The New New Housewives aired last night, and then afterwards I watched Andy, I watch What Happens Live, and I could almost read Andy's mind. They're all together Kumbaya. And then at the very end, there was a little something between two of the girls. One gave the other one a little bit of a bite and she was like pissed. And I'm thinking I could read Andie's mind saying way to the reunion, like you're all friends today every week? And you know what he said? How much do I have to pay you? I don't remember what he said, something about that. You know that promised me you're not going to call me when you don't like the edit, you know what I mean, or when you don't like the way you look. And only one girl said she wouldn't call Jennally.
We're gonna do this on the other show.
I know but what my point? What was my point? My point is is can you be friends and be on the show. Well, we'll find out what the New New York Housewives. They're all best friends as of today. Let's see what happens.
But they're not real best friends. Their best friends because they're on a show together. That's right.
So that's what you're saying.
Well, no, can you sustain a friendship?
Yeah, well, a friendship that you make on the show or a friendship that you had before.
Either big difference. I think there's a difference.
You think you can. I think it'd be hard to sustain any friendship on in a deep, deep way.
I think if you're both willing, I think that you and I did for the first two years. I agree, and I think we could have done this. I think we could have done season three. But I think that a lot of things changed for you. Getting married.
Has a Housewives friendship that has lasted from the beginning. This is from the other show. But I just actually want to know if we let me think about that and get back you kind of write that down. So let's tell the story about I have a vivid memory in the Hamptons of me negotiating our contracts.
What was it you were a little bit wrong. Nope, I'm gonna tell you where it was. You're ready, you're gonna do now. I'm gonna bring you back. You're ready. In front of Sex with the have a new men's store on Main Street. Well, you were on the phone with Anti Cone literally negotiating for thousand dollars for the second season.
Second season.
No, we didn't get that much. A second. I'm gonna have been third. Yeah, you're right, because then okay.
Yep, second season, and and they offered us yes, and you and I said, you said whatever you say, and you were right. But you I heard you talk about this recently. You were right on Bethany do it. It's up to you. But where it was. It was in front of saxon Main Street.
I haven't had many I started in your closet.
But I'm just telling you. I remember you on the phone, and you were so proud of yourself when we went to Main Street for lunch.
That's hilarious because I got it done. You're saying, got it done right there? Got it?
Okay.
You were so proud of yourself, and I was so proud of you. Okay, let's talk about the Well, first of all, how many true friendships have you really established on the housewives so you don't have to say who they are? You can true friendships like lifelong, real friends that aren't like cluttered in some way or tainted in some way based on things that have happened.
I mean, I think anything, I think they're all fragile, okay, And I I think I've been able to sustain three or four five maybe, but at any point anything can break.
It's not like your friends you've had for your whole life's down.
But I think any friendship is fragile, even the ones you've had your whole life.
Interesting well especially I feel like post pandemic, it's and things have changed. We're all in our own minds, and I just think that I think exactly.
It's funny how it just happened to a friend of mine, you know, someone who's just had a really deep relationship with and it just took one bad day that they had and he went on the internet and said all these horrible things about her and like went public with it.
It wasn't a public person and just.
Really like there's no going back, Okay, So I think friendships are listen, marriages are fragile.
Marriages are fragile, most things, most.
Even parents and children that don't talk. I mean that wasn't about you. I'm thinking of someone else. Actually, yeah, I think relationships are fragile. I think the one with your child is the least fragile. I think that's the strongest bond. But it's also fragile.
Yes, I think it's fragile too. It's scary. Let's talk about the Legacy negotiation, because I I have what I think happened. I was, I know, and I love listening to your show and listening to what you say, so I want to hear how close I am. What I think happened is you were an original house Wife. You were on for several seasons. Some people were going to be on Legacy that came later and haven't been on since the very beginning, and everyone's at different paygrids. When Jill and I started, it was called favored Nations and everybody got paid the same right, and we fucked that up. I fucked that up for everybody because we were We went on our own. You're like, I'm going with you. Remember the three blode they were going together. Oh yeah, they were going together and I was like, you're like, I'm over here here.
I was with you all the way right.
So that so now there's it's a it's a Chinese a la carte. Men, you know what the salaries are. It's all over the place. Everybody gets different. So you were walking into what I perceive as a new show with a collection of people that are casting a great show. You wanted to be paid what everybody else wanted to be paid, and they so you didn't want to come in where you were because that was a long time ago before people started getting real money, and they wanted they wanted to be thinking that they weren't on a show that just got canceled and that they were still riding with the next season of the show and be where they were. And I think that everybody fucked it up because they should have met in the middle. So they should have come to the middle and you, you would have gotten probably more than you were even asking for. I think that they should have come down and you should have all met in the middle. And I think that's why it got fucked up, because you were blamed for it. But I don't think it was really you.
And you know what's so funny, it was my career. I was, well, not really, but like it's always it's very hypocritical, you know, the networks they are because you know they say that you know, you can't talk to the press, but then they do. You know, like who knew? Who blamed me for the negotiations breaking down? I think that come from didn't come from me?
What really happened that?
Who cares? Who know? But it does because then if I was like, if I talk to you about it right now, no no, But then if I told you about it now, it's like, oh, she's talking about it, Well, where did it start? They started talking about it? Not me?
No, but it could have been one of the girls that said you messed it up. I think it was one of the girls. Who care?
That's me?
It wasn't But it doesn't matter. Well, first of all, you know what was in my head. I'll tell you something when I saw you and we talked about me coming back on the show.
And remember what you said? What did I say? What are you thinking?
Don't do it?
Of course?
Would you say, do you remember what you said to me? I remember what you said to me.
I don't know. You don't need it. I don't know.
Tell me, don't do it. You don't need it. What do you need it for. It's not good for you.
It's not but you. It's like it's like that crack that's bad for you, but you like want to look.
But you know that's funny because there was one a housewife from another show called me thirsty, and that stuck with me in the sense of like, first of all, being thirsty in this certain way is not a bad thing, but the way, by the way, the way it was said, it was meant to be flattering. No, And it's like, I'm the least thirsty.
I know.
I've got to have had this reputation, like I want to get back on the show. I want to get back on the show. Does anybody know me? Like if you ask my family, they'll tell you. It's like when I I I know, I don't do things for money. I do things first because I want to do it. Then it's money, right, But when I did the Housewives, I always said, and maybe it was a mistake that I didn't do it for the money, because clearly I didn't. Right, it was day one and we made no money. I did it because I wanted to do it.
And you liked a little the fun. I did it because I wanted to do it.
I wanted to get famous. I wanted to promote my brand. I wanted to have a memory on footage of Bobby and look like he's gone now, but I still have him forever.
I mean, there were a lot of it when in your marriage, you've been married to you and.
I had the best time for the first two years exactly. I mean we were loosey ethol. We had the best time, right. But now it's a different day, you know, And if I'm going to go back on TV or do anything, it's not because I'm going to have fun, because clearly I have some issues with some of the housewives going into it. So it's got to be because I'm going to make money. You talk about precedence. So I had just on Ultimate Girl's Trip, and they paid me a certain amount per episode.
I was being offered less than half for per episode.
But that's different because it's a week to get a bang, and that's a little different.
I'll just say, well, just to the money was if you everything's always episodic, you know, with these networks, it is.
But they're they're cramming one week.
No, no, this is not about the legacy week. This is what we're talking about back in January.
Say we're going to do it.
You can't compare the per episode to what you're getting because they're getting a bigger bang for that one week. That's that's like explosive. It's a one week. It's not that I'm saying, we're not talking about that show. There's two legacies too. No, No, I know, I'm saying.
Oh you mean, okay, you can't go by that as the precedent per episode necessarily. So then if we go back to even season four of what I made right, which I can still less than what I got back then twenty years ago. This is what I'm saying. Okay, this is what I'll said. So you if they wanted me on the show, the offer would have been right, and I believe that they never I believe that they.
Didn't want absolutely not.
Oh so you didn't regret not doing it?
Yeah? No, okay, good.
Why would I regret it?
Because I thought maybe you overplayed your hand.
No, I know you said that now, because I could have had any time called them up and said I'll take it.
I mean, like, you know, until.
That, I didn't know that.
Oh no, no, no, no no, So let's and I was. All I wanted was them to ask me back, and they did.
Oh interesting, and you have that. Did you feel that it was punitive that you didn't go on this recent.
Yes, it's one hundred percent punitive. And the funny thing is is all I said was? And all I said was And first of all, I kept my mouth shut because I just kept my mouth shut. You know, everybody was talking about it. I was being blamed for it, and I didn't say a one fucking word.
Good for you.
Yeah, until.
It was already over and they canceled the show and they weren't doing it, and I was told to just stand by and wait and they were going to work on the offer, and they never did. And all I said publicly was I think it should be. Like I had told Luanne privately when we had dinner, I said, why don't they just do this as Ultimate Girl's Trip.
It's ridiculous, it should be.
We all have different lives, we're all in different places, we all live in different cities.
It's not realistic for us to be that was your idea.
Yeah, it was my idea, and then she took it to Andy because Andy told me Luanne told her him that idea.
It doesn't matter who took credit. That's irrelevant. The point is no.
But that hurtsal. You weren't invited o idea.
Listen.
Absolutely, I wouldn't do it. That happened on The Handmaid's Tale, by the way, Serena had the idea for the fertility thing and they didn't include her, and I don't like it. Wait. Wait, I watched The Handmaids at the end when Serena wanted to do the fertility clinic in Gilead and they went over and they stole her idea and they did it without her.
Watch it, okay, we watch.
So I was so when they came out and said that they were going to do Ultimate Girl's Trip legacy. I thought that was a great idea. But I have had and you know, I know you're friends with one of the girls. I'm not even going to mention her name, and I've had issues with her and it just wasn't worth it to me to It's okay for you to have disagreements and arguments with people, and you know, be able to clean it up. But I didn't feel that I could clean it up and I had too much to risk, I had too.
Much to create. So you do you feel that the arguments have changed significantly since when we were on the level of arguments and the way that people argue is different than when we were on.
Well, I think that jealousy comes into it. I think that some girls are in better places than others, and I think that people will just say and do anything to take someone else down because the jealousy.
And also you're on those trips where everybody's been fired, so they have to claw their way back in that one.
Yes, well, yes it could be. All I know is that. And my family really thought I was going to do legacy by the way. Everybody said You're going to do it, and I said, no, I'm not.
You know, I don't.
I don't want to do it. It's not good for me. I felt that on the place, smoking.
Overall as an energy, and this is I'm like in my mind thinking does she change, and like she kind of wants to do it because she misses the light a little and she wants the little hit. Yeah she's right, but she wants to hit. She's like enticed by it's you know, it's respectful. It's like an X that she like is like curious about, but like she doesn't really know if she wants to go back to that toxic relationship.
It's not good for me.
It's like, you want to go back to smoking, but you know you're gonna die exactly.
I know I'm gonna die. I feel like it's like it's not about the money.
No, But know what I'm saying is like, if you made me an offer that I can't refuse, Sure, I could be bought. I mean I could to a certain extent, so right now, but if I lose my whole brand, I lose it all.
No, but do you still have a little bit of the curiosity and you like and you watch it?
I'm totally over it.
Like you don't. I'll tell you why. I'm gonna tell you why. I just filmed a show called Goat on Amazon.
Do you know that?
No, it doesn't mean anything. No, No, it's called Goat. It's called Greatest of All by the way, it's funny. It's the acronym's greatest of All Time reality star, which doesn't exist. So it's like a comedy and Daniel Tosh is the host who's this hysterical comedian, and there's fourteen reality stars. It's kind of like Big Brother. We all sleep in one house, so you're getting your those curious projects. The best time of my life. I met all the I was the oldest by far. They were like all my kids. I'm trying to help everybody, you know me. I'm like, oh, I'm cooking every meal. I had the best time and the most. The biggest thing is I wanted to play the games. I don't know if you've ever watched Big Brother, but they have all these games, and I love games, and I love word games, and I play wordle every day.
I love that stuff.
And I'm like aging out of it, Like at some point I can I play tennis.
They played pickaball. This was like an opportunity for lifetime for me.
So and I had the best time. All the little things together that there is fun as doing it. You don't care if it's out. You just want to be in the action a little.
Yeah. I The Housewives for me has come and passed. I loved I loved it when I did it. I'm happy for the new cast and in the biggest and best way.
I mean, I had it all.
I mean I had it, and I'm like aged out, you know, And now there's a new crop. It's a good thing, not a bad thing. It just keeps the show going on longer. I don't know why they're trying to pit the old against the new. I think it's not good, but we're going to get into that. I know, I know, I know, But anyway, I'm happy. I did feel fomo about the one week legacy, the legacy on it, because I felt that I gave the idea, at least I told everybody in the audience. I told people, well, it should be Favored Nations and it should be just a week and we should just have a good time, and it is what it is. And then they did it and didn't invite me, and I definitely know it was for spite because because I said no, they were mad at me.
And it's okay.
I do believe that if they wanted me to do the show, the offer would have been there, and maybe I would have done it because I would have felt like they really wanted me. But when they gave me that terrible offer and I found it insulted, and they offered Kelly. First of all, they said that it was based on how many years you were on the show. And then I found out Kelly was offered more than me. Now she was on a year less than me, So how is that possible.
That's how you get into cattiness. That's what happens then.
And then also that's the other thing. If everybody's making different money, you have a different level of importance, feeling, and like, I shouldn't feel less than anybody else.
I helped start the show.
You didn't feel valued, You felt right, and I don't.
Need to do it for them. You know what I did say to someone to in the press, I said, how about this, if you pay every if everyone takes a dollar, I'll take a dollar.
To do it.
You just wanted to feel respected.
I just wanted to be unequal playing field because I am equal. And by the way, just because I haven't done Housewives for as many seasons doesn't mean I haven't done other television shows of the projects and made more money than all of them put together.
So but it's irrelevantly, it's irrelevant. That's really funny. It's not your training for the Olympics. You ran one mile than twenty. It's like you're the housewives.
I mean, it doesn't matter whether I did for now seasons, I've done other things, same thing for you. By the way you left and did this and did that when you came back, did they count that you weren't a housewives? The fact that you had a talk show and everything else doesn't count.
So that's now it is.
But I have hold absolutely no resentment at all. I'm in a good place until today. Probably with the no I'm kidding, I don't know they're going to be leave a mark.
But no, it's not okay.
Because I've said that. I said it when I just did got when I got into it with Derinda. She came after me when we were filming Ultimate Girl's Trip, how I you know, brought cameras to the funeral and blah blah blah blah. Came after me, and I literally got off from the table and said, I'm not coming back until someone tells me.
I'm going to be honest. I don't think anyone believed you, and I think they'll believe you after today. So it's probably good for you if you cared about anyone believing you. Don't I do care because you know why everybody said that I used Bobby.
You know that I used his death to promote myself, which is couldn't be complete opposite, Bethany.
You're allowed to want to memorialize it in the way they want it. Fine, Okay. I also think that people who didn't believe it, and I think they'll believe it. I really believe do you believe it? Don't matter if you believe it. I don't care about everyone else. I believe.
I'm looking at you.
I believe the story. I really believe the story. I really do. I want to get into Gary a little bit, but we're gonna. I want to know how we are in time. How how much time do you think we really have? So so we should go to an hour.
It's nine o'clock.
Go to an hour. Okay, so we need fifteen more minutes. This is the fifty used the bat. Gary has to use the bathroom. I know this is live and Ana. We will not listen. The bathroom's here, but you want to go, it's right here. You'll be pining the bush out. Go in the bushes, Gary, go on the bushes to them. Wait, you're not paying in the bushes. We're on live and we're live and okay go on. Yes, by the way, do you know I can I tell people this what talk about Garret for two minutes because I know you want to get it out? No?
No, I told Gary what you did, and now I do What did I do? Do you remember a story You told me that when you would go to the casino, you wanted to go so bad that you would literally like peeing a cup in the car.
No, that was in the car. Oh yeah, hold out, I do that with Gary. All right, talk Gary, audience. Listen. We have to stop sooner. I have to hold on. I just wanna make sure to miss anything. I know that your business. We'll talk about your business in house West University. We're gonna promote your business completely. It's all you know about that respect you you present wanted I do this. The poster or the strike, we did that. What is take of the new show? We're doing that later. We're doing that later. We're doing that later. Rose and Thorne? Who cares Rushmore blah blah blah. What did your parents say for what which about doing today? Yes, listen, Gloria is as and as my sister would saying. My sister is the grud told her in the family for me, and I am for her. But Lisa is kept texting me today how to go, how to go? And I said it didn't happen yet.
I think they not. I don't want to say nervous.
But what's the word cautiously optimistic?
Cautiously optimistic is a great.
Word, Okay, cautiously optimistic?
Do can we tell people like that?
You can actually, at some point in life resolva relationship.
I think that I want to get to me, that we're going to get into where do we go from? We're gonna I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something that I really wanted to ask, you know, because I gave it a lot. I wanted to ask about Gary. I wanted to ask about you were talking earlier about the other non Ezembic who cares, No one cares. Let's just talk about us so we can do that later.
Okay.
So one of my if I had a trepidation and after the plane, but this is all the reason. There's a lot going through my mind while we're talking, as I'm sure there is for you. It was a trepidation that like now, because we did that, we have to be best friends and I to go to the gift bag party and I have to be like where and I and I but I but I, but I feel differently than I'm not saying I want to go to the gift bag party. I don't want to go to the gift bag party.
But I don't take a person. Yeah, but I don't take that person.
But yeah, it's like because last time we were on the plane and then you're like, if you want to do this, and here's my party July twenty first, and.
I think, oh, yeah, I think it was too much.
It's just I watch so so how I feel that was the trepidation. But through today, I just do feel a different energy. I first of all, really just thank you for like for trusting me. And I wanted before saying that. I'm assuming that you came and it could have been partial trust, partial curiosity, partial that this is going to be good for you. It's going to get a lot of publicity for both of us. This is equally I'm.
Not being everything you're saying.
Yeah, yeah, so it's good for let's not be We're not both everything you said is true.
Okay, So do you trust do you trust me?
Always trusted you.
I said to Paul, I think she trust me, and do you believe me?
Trusted you then, trusted trust you now and do you believe me one hundred believe you?
And you fully put yourselves in my hand, myself and my hands to say, without one question you just.
I didn't question you. I didn't ask to talk to you. I didn't say she has to call and invite me herself. I did nothing that maybe I would have said fifteen years ago and in the and.
Listen, I'm saying this for myself too. We can sometimes be I madeenance and in the past people have said you wanted this, you wanted that we have right. You were the reputation that Jill has with the people that booked this, were like, she, Why I have the reputation that you have today with the people that booked this is that you were an absolute pleasure. You were so excited you didn't tell anybody you were happy, and like I wanted to rise to the occasion too. I wanted you to feel like a guest. I wanted you to feel important.
By the way, thank you for the beautiful flowers. Thank you you were gorgeous.
So I wanted you to feel safe and good and I want to resume a relationship like I want. I'm glad.
I'm glad.
I'm happy seeing Paul City next to Gary, like I you know, I will say that there was a relative of my father's the other day that wanted to like connect, and they will bring up the temple and and like I get overwhelmed. I am an caged animal that has come from a very abusive life. So like I don't I want We're gonna be texting each other, but I don't want to like be in the housewives world. I don't want to know, Like I want to like go easy easy, go, like baby steps. But this is I say to Chris that you have walls. Yeah, I have a lot of walls and a lot of like I have a hard exterior. But this is totally genuine as evolve and I want it like I want.
I'm not going to push it, and I think I did push in the past. I'm not going to push you.
Right, but I'm not fragile. And it's not like it's not we're on equal playing field. It's not like you're pushing me. I'm not gonna push it. Like this is like a very nice. I'm excited.
I smother. I definitely smothered.
You do you want to want to make it right and fix it in two days with a bow and wrap it up run away?
Because I have anxiety. You see that all comes from being anxious. Right, So now that I recognize it, I can I never put a word on it.
And you know what, high five because I'm so excited. We did We didn't go to a suit, we didn't go to a conference room. We didn't wait for someone to beg us with scraps to do this. We did it for nothing, you know, and for nothing and we're here talking on our terms. Yes, And like I said, I if I called me and said we'll give you a hundred thousand dollars for this, it would I wouldn't be the same, like I called them. And we the YouTube series. We haven't made a diamond. We will eventually we make. It's doing very well. No, I mean it's doing very well. But I'm saying I'm being transparent, like it would cost a million dollars to get me to do what I've done from Friday to today.
And you can see.
It like it's been by the way, like when I got here I mean there was like a gifting suite.
I'm not a get what's the wrong?
A green room, a green room with food and every It made me feel like so welcome. I didn't at first. I was like when he says that, well, you're gonna go in this house, I'm like, oh am, I not good enough to go in the main house. I thought I was coming in your kitchen to do a podcast.
I know that's amazing. Well, how so what do you think. Did you feel ambush? Do you feel good?
Oh no, I feel so good.
I feel like you really really put a lot of detail in it, attention into this and love into this.
Well, there was absolutely more than I expected. Well, no, there was a lot of conversation because a we were I was like, and Paul was very respectful. He's like, does she know she's coming to film? I'm like no. And Chris Chris who's here, was like, she'll She'll be totally down for it. And if you were filming, I didn't know because we said video and audio. We said video YouTube, right, but no, it feels like you're on a television show here. Well, because it's good quality YouTube exactly, So I'm saying exactly but I wanted to do that professionally. I don't do anything halfway news, Paul, We're doing it, We're doing it. So it kept leg So then I was like, Okay, my assistant's going to meet you at the car, and you're gonna take her. Because I've been on talk shows, I've been on talk show where the person doesn't even come say hello. I wouldn't have come to say hello to you if I didn't know it was the right thing to do, because I wanted to do this all fresh. I know that I wanted you. That's question the process, right. I wanted you to come in. I wanted you to be greeted. I wanted the food. We've obsessed with the food for two days. I've been talking about the food and the fucking sandwiches and the lobster rolls. I've been obsessing for two days. I renovated my bar to be a living space. Gorgeous.
Don't change it bad.
It has been a lunatic running around this house like a crazy person for three days. So and you're still engaged. Oh no, you you don't know which. We went to ocean, Tim. We had to take dives in the ocean right before the monsoonn you found He's amazing. That's like, what makes me happy is that you found you. That's say thank you to Paul. Without Paul, this would never have happened. Now, Pas would never have happened, by.
The way, everybody, he's even better in person. He's good looking on you on Instagram, but he's better in person.
Right.
Well.
He is self deprecating because he thinks he is a big nose weirdo.
That's what he says.
And he's hot and handsome, and he's his mother. I know his mother's amazing. Love you love his family, You love his father, Yes, his father's nice.
Family.
Have your family now, Yeah, they're amazing. You would love his mother because she's so elegant and nice. But his father is like a male broad like his father's like his father is abroad. So we're gonna get into all the housewise and talk about your business, and we'll get Gary because we got to talk about Gary. I love Gary. I liked Gary on the plane because Paul doesn't like a lot of people like he. He likes people be like.
He likes who he likes.
And I said, you like people who are authentic to who they are, and like this guy is funny, self deprecating, but I could tell he's authentic, like he's you know, imperfect and not everything's gonna be perfect, but like Paul likes authentic, so I was like, you're gonna like him. I just have this feeling it behind it. So anyway, so I want to I'm glad you found your person. We are both different places. Ali is thirty Gary and you were married.
I think that makes it different for a lot of people. You know, Ramona's got someone now and she said.
I didn't know that. We can't wait to we'll talk about that later.
Oh that's just a different person.
That's amazing. I'm happy for her.
And that was the difference.
And when I heard about hell yeah, I was happy for her too. My first instinct was being happy for he and I've met the guy in my past, and I was, yeah, yeah, I seem like I'm so happy fun I'm happy for her.
But that changes the women.
When the women are happy in their own life, they don't have to be so bitter and angry about everything. That's fair, it's totally but but they don't need You don't need a person.
You don't need a person. You just need to be settled and happy.
You don't need a person. But if you want a person and don't have that, that's what makes you bitter and angry.
That's fair. But Boss, he's here, Cookie and Ginger have passed away. Gary's here, Bobby has passed, Bobby and Dennis have have.
Have left us.
Dennis might still be here.
Dennis might still be here through Gary because they look a lot by Bobby.
Bobby Garry used to work in the same building that Tennis lives.
I know they left a lot of extreme tan is in the Blue Wood and Paul is here. It's a lot of changes. It's many years later, so I'm really happy. I want to took you and hi guys much
