Filling in for Joan Esposito, William Muck talks to Thomas Countryman, former acting undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security. 

Countryman discussed the historical pattern of authoritarian regimes and the so-called authoritarian playbook, which he said, "has developed over decades, from the 1920s in Italy, the 1930s in Germany, through the Soviet Union, through China, up into modern-day regimes in Russia or Hungary. And it's had several similar elements in each case.

"First, you need to dominate a legislature that will rubber-stamp all the decisions of the boss. Second, you need to either control the courts or be ready to ignore them. Third, you have to control who votes and, more importantly, who counts the votes. Fourth, you need to have a national police state that is totally obedient, a national police force totally obedient to the 'supreme leader.' Fifth, you need to create an enemy class, whether you define your enemies in ethnic or religious or social terms, somebody who can be the target of government power. And six, you need to build a personality cult around a supreme leader who is not only a strong man but virtually infallible. And there's a seventh element that we'll talk about here in particular, which is to control the way people think and to make them incapable of thoughts that resist the leader. 

"Now, all of these elements have been adopted by different leaders with different emphasis, and have used the kind of language and emotional appeal that will get them where they want to be. And in each case, we have seen a democratic society turn into an authoritarian state through the steps that are outlined in this authoritarian playbook. Clearly, few have done it better than Mr. Trump and the fascist-leaning 'brain trust' at the Heritage Foundation."

He added: "The U.S. will experience the same kind of brain drain that Russia and Hungary and other places have experienced for the last several years. So this is going to be something that sets us back. It is something that causes other governments that are seriously interested in economic strength to salivate at the opportunity to get the best American minds, and it's something that makes people in China simply laugh at the stupidity of the self-destruction of the U.S. system."

Countryman also criticized the U.S.'s current foreign policy, which he believes is undermining global alliances and respect for American leadership.

Catch "Joan Esposito: Live, Local and Progressive" weekdays from 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. Central on WCPT (heartlandsignal.com/programs/live-local-progressive).

And find the Joan Esposito (Full Episodes) podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, TuneIn, iHeartRadio, YouTube, and Amazon.

Filling in for Joan Esposito, William Muck talks to Thomas Countryman, former acting undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security.&nbsp;
Countryman discussed the historical pattern of authoritarian regimes and the so-called authoritarian playbook, which he said, "has developed over decades, from the 1920s in Italy, the 1930s in Germany, through the Soviet Union, through China, up into modern-day regimes in Russia or Hungary. And it's had several similar elements in each case.
"First, you need to dominate a legislature that will rubber-stamp all the decisions of the boss. Second, you need to either control the courts or be ready to ignore them. Third, you have to control who votes and, more importantly, who counts the votes. Fourth, you need to have a national police state that is totally obedient, a national police force totally obedient to the 'supreme leader.' Fifth, you need to create an enemy class, whether you define your enemies in ethnic or religious or social terms, somebody who can be the target of government power. And six, you need to build a personality cult around a supreme leader who is not only a strong man but virtually infallible. And there's a seventh element that we'll talk about here in particular, which is to control the way people think and to make them incapable of thoughts that resist the leader.&nbsp;
"Now, all of these elements have been adopted by different leaders with different emphasis, and have used the kind of language and emotional appeal that will get them where they want to be. And in each case, we have seen a democratic society turn into an authoritarian state through the steps that are outlined in this authoritarian playbook. Clearly, few have done it better than Mr. Trump and the fascist-leaning 'brain trust' at the Heritage Foundation." He added: "The U.S. will experience the same kind of brain drain that Russia and Hungary and other places have experienced for the last several years. So this is going to be something that sets us back. It is something that causes other governments that are seriously interested in economic strength to salivate at the opportunity to get the best American minds, and it's something that makes people in China simply laugh at the stupidity of the self-destruction of the U.S. system." Countryman also criticized the U.S.'s current foreign policy, which he believes is undermining global alliances and respect for American leadership.
Catch "Joan Esposito: Live, Local and Progressive" weekdays from 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. Central on WCPT (<a href="http://heartlandsignal.com/programs/live-local-progressive">heartlandsignal.com/programs/live-local-progressive</a>).
And find the Joan Esposito (Full Episodes) podcast on&nbsp;<a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/2yqdk3eg4GZzkuV3dxkrce">Spotify</a>, <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/driving-it-home-full-episodes/id1772728749">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://tunein.com/podcasts/Joan-Esposito-(Full-Episodes)-p4553843/">TuneIn</a>, <a href="https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1300-joan-esposito-full-episod-224680480/">iHeartRadio</a>, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLquOHBYhhrLPSPl6zwW-_zH6q0Tng18S3">YouTube</a>, and <a href="https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/3511174e-20b7-400f-badb-40862505c17a/joan-esposito-full-episodes">Amazon</a>.

Here are full episodes of "Joan Esposito: Live, Local and Progressive" (weekdays from 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. Central on WCPT Chicago), a topical and interactive talk show from Chicago that focuses on national, state and city politics.  

A veteran Chicago broadcaster, Joan talks to politicians and professors, activists and authors, candidates and correspondents, as well as listeners who call in to share their views on the news of the day. Her goal is to Edify, Entertain and Elect — Democrats, of course.    

Joan Esposito has hosted WCPT's afternoon show since 2019. Prior to that she spent 20 years as a Chicago television anchor and reporter for WGN Channel 9, ABC7 and NBC5, and had a stint as managing partner at media trainer J2SC.  Joan is a long-time member of the Screen Actors Guild and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (SAG-AFTRA). 

Here are full episodes of "Joan Esposito: Live, Local and Progressive" (weekdays from 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. Central on <a href="https://heartlandsignal.com/wcpt820/">WCPT Chicago</a>), a topical and interactive talk show from Chicago that focuses on national, state and city politics.  
A veteran Chicago broadcaster, Joan talks to politicians and professors, activists and authors, candidates and correspondents, as well as listeners who call in to share their views on the news of the day. Her goal is to Edify, Entertain and Elect — Democrats, of course.    
Joan Esposito has hosted WCPT's afternoon show since 2019. Prior to that she spent 20 years as a Chicago television anchor and reporter for WGN Channel 9, ABC7 and NBC5, and had a stint as managing partner at media trainer J2SC.  Joan is a long-time member of the Screen Actors Guild and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (SAG-AFTRA).

Joan Esposito (Full Episodes)

"Joan Esposito: Live, Local and Progressive" (weekdays from 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. Central on WCPT Chicago) is a topical and interactive talk show from Chicago that focuses on national, state and city politics. A veteran Chicago broadcaster, Joan talks to politicians and professors, activists and authors, candidates and correspondents, as well as listeners who call in to share their views on the news of the day. Her goal is to Edify, Entertain and Elect — Democrats, of course.    

Joan Esposito has hosted WCPT's afternoon show since 2019. Prior to that she spent 20 years as a Chicago television anchor and reporter for WGN Channel 9, ABC7 and NBC5, and had a stint as managing partner at media trainer J2SC.  Joan is a long-time member of the Screen Actors Guild and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (SAG-AFTRA). 

"Joan Esposito: Live, Local and Progressive" (weekdays from 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. Central on <a href="https://heartlandsignal.com/wcpt820/">WCPT Chicago</a>) is a topical and interactive talk show from Chicago that focuses on national, state and city politics. A veteran Chicago broadcaster, Joan talks to politicians and professors, activists and authors, candidates and correspondents, as well as listeners who call in to share their views on the news of the day. Her goal is to Edify, Entertain and Elect — Democrats, of course.    
Joan Esposito has hosted WCPT's afternoon show since 2019. Prior to that she spent 20 years as a Chicago television anchor and reporter for WGN Channel 9, ABC7 and NBC5, and had a stint as managing partner at media trainer J2SC.  Joan is a long-time member of the Screen Actors Guild and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (SAG-AFTRA).

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