Look, there are some things in life - a LOT of things in life - that just can’t be fixed or made better, you have to figure out how you’re going to live with them.



Sarah Ramey spent DECADES trying to find answers for why her body was falling apart. Her book, The Lady’s Handbook for Her Mysterious Illness, describes the complex, convoluted path through conventional and alternative medicines, her frustrations with being deemed a liar and hypochondriac, and the overlapping issues of misogyny, ableism, and well meaning but unhelpful support. 



If you’ve ever felt othered and invisible because of an illness or disability - this episode is for you. If you’ve ever loved someone with a chronic illness, or you’re a medical provider in any capacity, this episode is 3000% for you. 



And if you’re grieving some other loss or hardship, you’ll recognize so much of yourself in this conversation: that human desire to be seen, loved, and supported, exactly as you are. 





In this episode we cover:  


What it’s really like having a chronic, invisible illness (and if you have one, you’ll feel seen!)
How truly messed up the medical system is: Sarah’s years’ long efforts to be believed by doctors, and at a minimum: not be overtly harmed while seeking care
How does being in a female body shift your odds of being believed - for ANYTHING, but especially mysterious, chronic illnesses? 
Sarah’s music was featured in the hit show Wednesday, on Netflix. Can you be a successful musician and have a disability? 
Why hope is a complex concept when your life is constrained by illness or disability (and why hope is still REALLY important)



We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons.



Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.



Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses





About our guest:

Sarah Ramey is a writer and musician (known as Wolf Larsen). Her work has been featured in The Paris Review, NPR, The Atlantic, The Washington Post, Ms. Magazine, and the Netflix show, Wednesday. Her book, The Lady’s Handbook for Her Mysterious Illness was a starred selection for Publisher’s Weekly, Kirkus Reviews, and Booklist. Learn more at sarahmarieramey.com and wolflarsenmusic.com.

Sarah has been living with serious chronic pain and illness for seventeen years. 



About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief



Additional resources:

To join the next embodied writing course mentioned in the show, sign up at roottherapymaine.com



Read Sarah’s memoir: The Lady’s Handbook for Her Mysterious Illness



Listen to Sarah’s solo album: Quiet at the Kitchen Door



Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 



Check out Megan’s best-selling books -It’s OK That You're Not OK andHow to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed



Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

Look, there are some things in life - a LOT of things in life - that just can’t be fixed or made better, you have to figure out how you’re going to live with them.
 
Sarah Ramey spent DECADES trying to find answers for why her body was falling apart. Her book, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9780307741943">The Lady’s Handbook for Her Mysterious Illness</a>, describes the complex, convoluted path through conventional and alternative medicines, her frustrations with being deemed a liar and hypochondriac, and the overlapping issues of misogyny, ableism, and well meaning but unhelpful support. 
 
If you’ve ever felt othered and invisible because of an illness or disability - this episode is for you. If you’ve ever loved someone with a chronic illness, or you’re a medical provider in any capacity, this episode is 3000% for you. 
 
And if you’re grieving some other loss or hardship, you’ll recognize so much of yourself in this conversation: that human desire to be seen, loved, and supported, exactly as you are. 
 
In this episode we cover:  
 
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">What it’s really like having a chronic, invisible illness (and if you have one, you’ll feel seen!)</li>
<li aria-level="1">How truly messed up the medical system is: Sarah’s years’ long efforts to be believed by doctors, and at a minimum: not be overtly harmed while seeking care</li>
<li aria-level="1">How does being in a female body shift your odds of being believed - for ANYTHING, but especially mysterious, chronic illnesses? </li>
<li aria-level="1">Sarah’s music was featured in the hit show Wednesday, on Netflix. Can you be a successful musician and have a disability? </li>
<li aria-level="1">Why hope is a complex concept when your life is constrained by illness or disability (and why hope is still REALLY important)</li>
</ul>
 
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief <a href="http://refugeingrief.com/wyg">course here</a>.
 
Follow our show on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/refugeingrief/">Instagram</a>, <a href="https://www.facebook.com/refugeingrief/">Facebook</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/refugeingrief">Twitter</a>, and <a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@refugeingrief">TikTok</a> @refugeingrief and <a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@itsokpod">@itsokpod</a> on TikTok. Visit <a href="https://refugeingrief.com/">refugeingrief.com</a> for resources &amp; courses
 
About our guest:
Sarah Ramey is a writer and musician (known as<a href="https://www.wolflarsenmusic.com/"> Wolf Larsen</a>). Her work has been featured in The Paris Review, NPR, The Atlantic, The Washington Post, Ms. Magazine, and the Netflix show, Wednesday. Her book, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9780307741943">The Lady’s Handbook for Her Mysterious Illness</a> was a starred selection for Publisher’s Weekly, Kirkus Reviews, and Booklist. Learn more at <a href="https://www.sarahmarieramey.com/">sarahmarieramey.com</a> and <a href="https://www.wolflarsenmusic.com/">wolflarsenmusic.com</a>.
Sarah has been living with serious chronic pain and illness for seventeen years. 
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074">It’s Ok that You’re Not OK</a>, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional resources:
To join the next embodied writing course mentioned in the show, sign up at <a href="https://www.roottherapymaine.com/reverence">roottherapymaine.com</a>
 
Read Sarah’s memoir: <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9780307741943">The Lady’s Handbook for Her Mysterious Illness</a> 
 
Listen to Sarah’s solo album: <a href="https://wolflarsen.bandcamp.com/releases">Quiet at the Kitchen Door</a> 
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? <a href="https://www.patreon.com/megandevine">Join our patreon community</a> for live monthly Q&amp;A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd0EjlSBXpJCil0TqCMp1sC-1SlWfBpC_jcVPOmrH5eJTMSFw/viewform">Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here</a>. 
 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books -<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074"> It’s OK That You're Not OK</a> and<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781683643708"> How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed</a>
 
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

Life is full of difficult things, from tiny everyday disappointments to life-altering events. Everyone’s at least a little bit Not OK, something grief expert and psychotherapist Megan Devine knows from the inside out. In wide ranging, insightful, deep conversations, Megan talks with people about their often invisible losses - and what they’ve learned about being seen and supported in difficult times. 

With guests pulled from the front lines of entertainment, medicine, education, and activism, the conversations in It’s OK that You’re Not OK are funny, complex, emotional, and hopeful - maybe not your typical dinner party topics, but none of us are entirely OK, and it’s time we start talking about that.

New episodes each and every Monday, from the author of the best-selling book, It’s OK That You’re Not OK, and iHeartMedia. Find Megan online at @refugeingrief & follow the show @ItsOKPod

Life is full of difficult things, from tiny everyday disappointments to life-altering events. Everyone’s at least a little bit Not OK, something grief expert and psychotherapist Megan Devine knows from the inside out. In wide ranging, insightful, deep conversations, Megan talks with people about their often invisible losses - and what they’ve learned about being seen and supported in difficult times. 
With guests pulled from the front lines of entertainment, medicine, education, and activism, the conversations in It’s OK that You’re Not OK are funny, complex, emotional, and hopeful - maybe not your typical dinner party topics, but none of us are entirely OK, and it’s time we start talking about that.
New episodes each and every Monday, from the author of the best-selling book, It’s OK That You’re Not OK, and iHeartMedia. Find Megan online at @refugeingrief &amp; follow the show @ItsOKPod

It’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan Devine

Life is full of difficult things, from tiny everyday disappointments to life-altering events. Everyone’s at least a little bit Not OK, something grief expert and psychotherapist Megan Devine knows from the inside out. In wide ranging, insightful, deep conversations, Megan talks with people about their often invisible losses - and what they’ve learned about being seen and supported in difficult times. 
With guests pulled from the front lines of entertainment, medicine, education, and activism, the conversations in It’s OK that You’re Not OK are funny, complex, emotional, and hopeful - maybe not your typical dinner party topics, but none of us are entirely OK, and it’s time we start talking about that.
New episodes each and every Monday, from the author of the best-selling book, It’s OK That You’re Not OK, and iHeartMedia. Find Megan online at @refugeingrief &amp; follow the show @ItsOKPod

Living with Chronic Illness: A Conversation For Everyone with a Body, with Sarah Ramey

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/1a3ae9be-dda6-4da9-9f68-b0c9017c5f70/transcript