How do we live in a world that’s at least half terrible, and that is a conservative estimate?

If you recognize that line, you already know Maggie Smith. This week on the show, we’re talking about writing, marriage, divorce, and why you didn’t need whatever happened to you in order to become who you’re meant to be: as Maggie says, “trauma does not give you a “glow up.”” 



If you’ve ever wanted to write the story of your life - including the messy, difficult parts like divorce, miscarriage, and the loss of identity - this episode is for you. 



In this episode we cover: 
Why it’s ok if your story doesn’t have a happy ending (or even a happy middle)
Do kids really need to learn about resilience? 
Does anything remain after devastating loss? 
What’s it like having your personal story out in the world for other people to talk about? 
Divorce, miscarriage, and why sometimes the lemonade isn’t worth the lemons



Get the best selling Writing Your Grief course and join over 15,000 people who’ve explored their grief - and their identity - through writing. All the details here. 



Related episodes: 

Kate Bowler on the difference between transactional hope and functional hope

Aubrey Hirsch on the power of storytelling 

David Ambroz on “A Place Called Home” 



About our guest:

Maggie Smith is the award-winning author of You Could Make This Place Beautiful, Good Bones, The Well Speaks of Its Own Poison, Lamp of the Body, and the national bestsellers Goldenrod and Keep Moving: Notes on Loss, Creativity, and Change. A 2011 recipient of a Creative Writing Fellowship from the National Endowment for the Arts, Smith has also received several Individual Excellence Awards from the Ohio Arts Council, two Academy of American Poets Prizes, a Pushcart Prize, and fellowships from the Sustainable Arts Foundation and the Virginia Center for the Creative Arts. She has been widely published, appearing in The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Paris Review, The Nation, The Best American Poetry, and more. You can follow her on social media @MaggieSmithPoet.





About Megan: 

Psychotherapist and bestselling author Megan Devine is recognized as one of today’s most insightful and original voices on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. She helms a consulting practice in Los Angeles and serves as an organizational consultant for the healthcare and human resources industries. 



The best-selling book on grief in over a decade, Megan’s It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, is a global phenomenon that has been translated into more than 25 languages. Her celebrated animations and explainers have garnered over 75 million views and are used in training programs around the world.



Additional resources:

Get the best selling Writing Your Grief course and join over 15,000 people who’ve explored their grief - and their identity - through writing. All the details here.



Maggie Smith’s website

Maggie’s memoir - You Could Make This Place Beautiful



“What would happen if one woman told the truth about her life? / The world would split open.” - feminist poet Muriel Rukeyser



Want to talk with Megan directly? Two options: apply for one of her 1:1 sessions through the contact form at megandevine.co, or join our Patreon community for live monthly Q&A sessions. Either way, it’s your questions, answered.



Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed



Books and resources may contain affiliate links.



Get in touch:

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of It’s OK that You’re Not OK. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, tag us on social with your thoughts, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 



Follow the show on TikTok @itsokpod and use the hashtag #ItsOkPod on all social platforms



For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok, and follow Megan on LinkedIn



For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at megandevine.co

How do we live in a world that’s at least half terrible, and that is a conservative estimate? If you recognize that line, you already know Maggie Smith. This week on the show, we’re talking about writing, marriage, divorce, and why you didn’t need whatever happened to you in order to become who you’re meant to be: as Maggie says, “trauma does not give you a “glow up.”” 
 
If you’ve ever wanted to write the story of your life - including the messy, difficult parts like divorce, miscarriage, and the loss of identity - this episode is for you. 
 
In this episode we cover: 
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">Why it’s ok if your story doesn’t have a happy ending (or even a happy middle)</li>
<li aria-level="1">Do kids really need to learn about resilience? </li>
<li aria-level="1">Does anything remain after devastating loss? </li>
<li aria-level="1">What’s it like having your personal story out in the world for other people to talk about? </li>
<li aria-level="1">Divorce, miscarriage, and why sometimes the lemonade isn’t worth the lemons</li>
</ul>
 
Get the best selling Writing Your Grief course and join over 15,000 people who’ve explored their grief - and their identity - through writing. <a href="http://refugeingrief.com/wyg">All the details here. </a>
 
Related episodes: 
<a href="https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-its-ok-that-youre-not-ok-89497701/episode/new-year-same-old-feelings-106440212/">Kate Bowler on the difference between transactional hope and functional hope</a>
<a href="mailto:aubrey.hirsch@gmail.com">Aubrey Hirsch</a> on the power of storytelling 
<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/here-after-with-megan-devine/id1595914505?i=1000580612306">David Ambroz on “A Place Called Home” </a>
 
About our guest:
Maggie Smith is the award-winning author of <a href="https://amzn.to/3NxQh30">You Could Make This Place Beautiful</a>, <a href="https://amzn.to/3NzrBXI">Good Bones</a>, <a href="https://amzn.to/3NBTjU2">The Well Speaks of Its Own Poison</a>, <a href="https://amzn.to/43K8yQp">Lamp of the Body</a>, and the national bestsellers <a href="https://amzn.to/3NzKAkV">Goldenrod</a> and <a href="https://amzn.to/3Xfy8dF">Keep Moving: Notes on Loss, Creativity, and Change</a>. A 2011 recipient of a Creative Writing Fellowship from the National Endowment for the Arts, Smith has also received several Individual Excellence Awards from the Ohio Arts Council, two Academy of American Poets Prizes, a Pushcart Prize, and fellowships from the Sustainable Arts Foundation and the Virginia Center for the Creative Arts. She has been widely published, appearing in The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Paris Review, The Nation, The Best American Poetry, and more. You can follow her on social media @MaggieSmithPoet.
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist and bestselling author Megan Devine is recognized as one of today’s most insightful and original voices on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. She helms a consulting practice in Los Angeles and serves as an organizational consultant for the healthcare and human resources industries. 
 
The best-selling book on grief in over a decade, Megan’s <a href="https://amzn.to/3GbAd2N">It’s Ok that You’re Not OK</a>, is a global phenomenon that has been translated into more than 25 languages. Her celebrated <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2zLCCRT-nE">animations and explainers</a> have garnered over 75 million views and are used in training programs around the world.
 
Additional resources:
Get the best selling Writing Your Grief course and join over 15,000 people who’ve explored their grief - and their identity - through writing. <a href="http://refugeingrief.com/wyg">All the details here</a>.
 
<a href="https://maggiesmithpoet.com/">Maggie Smith’s website</a>
Maggie’s memoir - <a href="https://amzn.to/3NxQh30">You Could Make This Place Beautiful</a>
 
“What would happen if one woman told the truth about her life? / The world would split open.” - <a href="https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/history-of-twentiethcentury-american-womens-poetry/world-split-open-feminism-poetry-and-social-critique/B0AA4A809D84F1F9EA8A7175B0872F1E#">feminist poet Muriel Rukeyser</a>
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? Two options: <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd0EjlSBXpJCil0TqCMp1sC-1SlWfBpC_jcVPOmrH5eJTMSFw/viewform">apply for one of her 1:1 sessions through the contact form at megandevine.co</a>, or <a href="https://www.patreon.com/megandevine">join our Patreon community</a> for live monthly Q&amp;A sessions. Either way, it’s your questions, answered.
 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books - <a href="https://amzn.to/3zBWvXJ">It’s OK That You're Not OK</a> and <a href="https://amzn.to/43eXGda">How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed</a> 
 
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
 
Get in touch:
Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of It’s OK that You’re Not OK. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, tag us on social with your thoughts, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 
 
Follow the show on TikTok <a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@itsokpod">@itsokpod</a> and use the hashtag #ItsOkPod on all social platforms
 
For grief support &amp; education, follow us at @refugeingrief on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/refugeingrief/">Instagram</a>, <a href="https://www.facebook.com/refugeingrief/">Facebook</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/refugeingrief">Twitter</a>, and <a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@refugeingrief">TikTok</a>, and follow <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/megan-devine-719344141/">Megan on LinkedIn</a>
 
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at <a href="https://www.megandevine.co/">megandevine.co</a>

Life is full of difficult things, from tiny everyday disappointments to life-altering events. Everyone’s at least a little bit Not OK, something grief expert and psychotherapist Megan Devine knows from the inside out. In wide ranging, insightful, deep conversations, Megan talks with people about their often invisible losses - and what they’ve learned about being seen and supported in difficult times. 

With guests pulled from the front lines of entertainment, medicine, education, and activism, the conversations in It’s OK that You’re Not OK are funny, complex, emotional, and hopeful - maybe not your typical dinner party topics, but none of us are entirely OK, and it’s time we start talking about that.

New episodes each and every Monday, from the author of the best-selling book, It’s OK That You’re Not OK, and iHeartMedia. Find Megan online at @refugeingrief & follow the show @ItsOKPod

Life is full of difficult things, from tiny everyday disappointments to life-altering events. Everyone’s at least a little bit Not OK, something grief expert and psychotherapist Megan Devine knows from the inside out. In wide ranging, insightful, deep conversations, Megan talks with people about their often invisible losses - and what they’ve learned about being seen and supported in difficult times. 
With guests pulled from the front lines of entertainment, medicine, education, and activism, the conversations in It’s OK that You’re Not OK are funny, complex, emotional, and hopeful - maybe not your typical dinner party topics, but none of us are entirely OK, and it’s time we start talking about that.
New episodes each and every Monday, from the author of the best-selling book, It’s OK That You’re Not OK, and iHeartMedia. Find Megan online at @refugeingrief &amp; follow the show @ItsOKPod

It’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan Devine

Can We Make This Place Beautiful? with Maggie Smith

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/c6c259cd-57c4-47b8-94ac-b028018b6fa4/transcript

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