Whether you’re interested in social justice or not, there’s no denying the grief simmering beneath the surface of daily life. It’s in our personal lives, it’s in the news, it’s in our communities. The thing is - we never really talk about it: just how much grief connects us. 



If we learn to lean into that grief together, we might really create the beautiful world we all long for. 



Malkia Devich-Cyril knows grief from the inside out. They grew up knowing their mom would die of her illness. They grew up immersed in the grief that is endemic to being Black in America. And they cared for their wife, comedian Alana Devich-Cyril through her death in 2018.



Malkia is a poet and media activist. They are the executive director of the MediaJustice, and a co-founder of the Media Action Grassroots Network. Their writings on media, race, justice, and grief frequently appear in national publications such as Politico, The Guardian, and The Atlantic, and in the Oscar nominated documentary film, 13th. 



This episode is STUNNING. It has gifts for everyone, whether you’re grieving a personal loss, or you’re an activist of any kind. 



If you ARE an activist or organizer, you need to hear what Malkia has to say about our narrative strategies, and what it really takes to make change happen. 

In this episode we cover: 
The difference between sorrow and grief
How “feelings aren’t facts” relates to grief
Is it normal to feel like you failed to keep someone alive? 
Why do narrative strategists (aka: activists) need to understand grief? 
Are book bans a form of grief? (spoiler: yes, but maybe not for the reasons you think)
Why death is “the ultimate boundary” - and how to find hope in that





Related episodes:

Rage Becomes Her (and by “her” I mean US) with Soraya Chemaly

Collective Grief and Communal Joy: with Baratunde Thurston

Wonder in an Age of Violence: Valarie Kaur & See No Stranger

For more on the shortage of compassion, see The Love Filled World: is there enough love to go around? 





Notable quotes:

“Sadness is a critical, crucial part of acknowledging the reality of our conditions. So I believe in sorrow. The point is not to exclude sorrow, it's to include joy. It's to include anger. It's to allow ourselves the full range of what acknowledging loss means.” - Malkia Devich-Cyril





“A hurting person wants to bond with other hurting people, but they're also not gonna stay in a movement that is only dealing with pain.” - Malkia Devich-Cyril

About our guest:

Malkia Devich-Cyril is an activist, writer and public speaker on issues of digital rights, narrative power, Black liberation and collective grief. They are also the founding and former Executive Director of MediaJustice — a national hub boldly advancing racial justice, rights and dignity in a digital age. Their writing has appeared in publications like Politico, Motherboard, Essence Magazine, and three documentary films including the Oscar nominated 13th. Find them @culturejedi on Twitter and @radical_loss on Instagram.

Read Grief Belongs in Social Movements: We Embrace it? 



About Megan: 

Psychotherapist and bestselling author Megan Devine is recognized as one of today’s most insightful and original voices on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. She helms a consulting practice in Los Angeles and serves as an organizational consultant for the healthcare and human resources industries. 

The best-selling book on grief in over a decade, Megan’s It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, is a global phenomenon that has been translated into more than 25 languages. Her celebrated animations and explainers have garnered over 75 million views and are used in training programs around the world.





Additional resources:

“The Antidote to Authoritarianism” by Malkia Devich-Cyril, The Atlantic

MediaJustice

Media Action Grassroots Network



Want to become a more grief-informed, human-centered therapist or provider? Registration is open now for Megan Devine’s 6 month online Grief Care Professional Certificate Program. Details at this link. 



Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A sessions: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 



Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed



Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

Get in touch:

Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of It’s OK that You’re Not OK. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, tag us on social with your thoughts, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 



Follow the show on TikTok @itsokpod and use the hashtag #ItsOkPod on all social platforms



For grief support & education, follow us at @refugeingrief on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok, and follow Megan on LinkedIn



For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at megandevine.co

Whether you’re interested in social justice or not, there’s no denying the grief simmering beneath the surface of daily life. It’s in our personal lives, it’s in the news, it’s in our communities. The thing is - we never really talk about it: just how much grief connects us. 
 
If we learn to lean into that grief together, we might really create the beautiful world we all long for. 
 
Malkia Devich-Cyril knows grief from the inside out. They grew up knowing their mom would die of her illness. They grew up immersed in the grief that is endemic to being Black in America. And they cared for their wife, comedian Alana Devich-Cyril through her death in 2018.
 
Malkia is a poet and media activist. They are the executive director of the <a href="https://mediajustice.org/">MediaJustice</a>, and a co-founder of the <a href="https://mediajustice.org/network/">Media Action Grassroots Network</a>. Their writings on media, race, justice, and grief frequently appear in national publications such as Politico, The Guardian, and The Atlantic, and in the Oscar nominated documentary film, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_(film)">13th</a>. 
 
This episode is STUNNING. It has gifts for everyone, whether you’re grieving a personal loss, or you’re an activist of any kind. 
 
If you ARE an activist or organizer, you need to hear what Malkia has to say about our narrative strategies, and what it really takes to make change happen. 
In this episode we cover: 
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">The difference between sorrow and grief</li>
<li aria-level="1">How “feelings aren’t facts” relates to grief</li>
<li aria-level="1">Is it normal to feel like you failed to keep someone alive? </li>
<li aria-level="1">Why do narrative strategists (aka: activists) need to understand grief? </li>
<li aria-level="1">Are book bans a form of grief? (spoiler: yes, but maybe not for the reasons you think)</li>
<li aria-level="1">Why death is “the ultimate boundary” - and how to find hope in that</li>
</ul>
 
Related episodes:
<a href="https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-its-ok-that-youre-not-ok-89497701/episode/rage-becomes-her-and-by-her-108030869/">Rage Becomes Her (and by “her” I mean US) with Soraya Chemaly</a>
<a href="https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-its-ok-that-youre-not-ok-89497701/episode/collective-grief-and-communal-joy-with-115122353/">Collective Grief and Communal Joy: with Baratunde Thurston</a>
<a href="https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-its-ok-that-youre-not-ok-89497701/episode/wonder-in-an-age-of-violence-117639477/">Wonder in an Age of Violence: Valarie Kaur &amp; See No Stranger</a>
For more on the shortage of compassion, see <a href="https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-its-ok-that-youre-not-ok-89497701/episode/the-love-filled-world-96943456/">The Love Filled World: is there enough love to go around</a>? 
 
Notable quotes:
“Sadness is a critical, crucial part of acknowledging the reality of our conditions. So I believe in sorrow. The point is not to exclude sorrow, it's to include joy. It's to include anger. It's to allow ourselves the full range of what acknowledging loss means.” - Malkia Devich-Cyril
 
“A hurting person wants to bond with other hurting people, but they're also not gonna stay in a movement that is only dealing with pain.” - Malkia Devich-Cyril
About our guest:
<a href="https://mediajustice.org/staff/malkia-devich-cyril/">Malkia Devich-Cyril</a> is an activist, writer and public speaker on issues of digital rights, narrative power, Black liberation and collective grief. They are also the founding and former Executive Director of <a href="https://mediajustice.org/">MediaJustice</a> — a national hub boldly advancing racial justice, rights and dignity in a digital age. Their writing has appeared in publications like Politico, Motherboard, Essence Magazine, and three documentary films including the Oscar nominated <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_(film)">13th</a>. Find them <a href="https://twitter.com/culturejedi">@culturejedi</a> on Twitter and <a href="https://www.instagram.com/radical_loss/">@radical_loss</a> on Instagram.
Read <a href="https://inthesetimes.com/article/freedom-grief-healing-death-liberation-movements">Grief Belongs in Social Movements: We Embrace it? </a>
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist and bestselling author Megan Devine is recognized as one of today’s most insightful and original voices on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. She helms a consulting practice in Los Angeles and serves as an organizational consultant for the healthcare and human resources industries. 
The best-selling book on grief in over a decade, Megan’s <a href="https://amzn.to/3GbAd2N">It’s Ok that You’re Not OK</a>, is a global phenomenon that has been translated into more than 25 languages. Her celebrated <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2zLCCRT-nE">animations and explainers</a> have garnered over 75 million views and are used in training programs around the world.
 
Additional resources:
<a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/05/the-antidote-to-authoritarianism/525438/">“The Antidote to Authoritarianism” by Malkia Devich-Cyril, The Atlantic</a>
<a href="https://mediajustice.org/">MediaJustice</a>
<a href="https://mediajustice.org/network/">Media Action Grassroots Network</a>
 
Want to become a more grief-informed, human-centered therapist or provider? Registration is open now for Megan Devine’s 6 month online Grief Care Professional Certificate Program. <a href="https://catalog.pesi.com/sales/bh_c_001791_megandevinegriefcarecert_0923_affiliate-668622">Details at this link</a>. 
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? <a href="https://www.patreon.com/megandevine">Join our patreon community</a> for live monthly Q&amp;A sessions: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd0EjlSBXpJCil0TqCMp1sC-1SlWfBpC_jcVPOmrH5eJTMSFw/viewform">Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here</a>. 
 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books - <a href="https://amzn.to/3zBWvXJ">It’s OK That You're Not OK</a> and <a href="https://amzn.to/43eXGda">How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed</a> 
 
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
Get in touch:
Thanks for listening to this week’s episode of It’s OK that You’re Not OK. Tune in, subscribe, leave a review, tag us on social with your thoughts, and share the show with everyone you know. Together, we can make things better, even when they can’t be made right. 
 
Follow the show on TikTok <a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@itsokpod">@itsokpod</a> and use the hashtag #ItsOkPod on all social platforms
 
For grief support &amp; education, follow us at @refugeingrief on <a href="https://www.instagram.com/refugeingrief/">Instagram</a>, <a href="https://www.facebook.com/refugeingrief/">Facebook</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/refugeingrief">Twitter</a>, and <a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@refugeingrief">TikTok</a>, and follow <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/megan-devine-719344141/">Megan on LinkedIn</a>
 
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at <a href="https://www.megandevine.co/">megandevine.co</a>

Life is full of difficult things, from tiny everyday disappointments to life-altering events. Everyone’s at least a little bit Not OK, something grief expert and psychotherapist Megan Devine knows from the inside out. In wide ranging, insightful, deep conversations, Megan talks with people about their often invisible losses - and what they’ve learned about being seen and supported in difficult times. 

With guests pulled from the front lines of entertainment, medicine, education, and activism, the conversations in It’s OK that You’re Not OK are funny, complex, emotional, and hopeful - maybe not your typical dinner party topics, but none of us are entirely OK, and it’s time we start talking about that.

New episodes each and every Monday, from the author of the best-selling book, It’s OK That You’re Not OK, and iHeartMedia. Find Megan online at @refugeingrief & follow the show @ItsOKPod

Life is full of difficult things, from tiny everyday disappointments to life-altering events. Everyone’s at least a little bit Not OK, something grief expert and psychotherapist Megan Devine knows from the inside out. In wide ranging, insightful, deep conversations, Megan talks with people about their often invisible losses - and what they’ve learned about being seen and supported in difficult times. 
With guests pulled from the front lines of entertainment, medicine, education, and activism, the conversations in It’s OK that You’re Not OK are funny, complex, emotional, and hopeful - maybe not your typical dinner party topics, but none of us are entirely OK, and it’s time we start talking about that.
New episodes each and every Monday, from the author of the best-selling book, It’s OK That You’re Not OK, and iHeartMedia. Find Megan online at @refugeingrief &amp; follow the show @ItsOKPod

It’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan Devine

Book Bans, Grief, and Love: What Do These Have to Do With Social Movements? with Malkia Devich-Cyril

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/54ef1aa2-f627-4b67-bb6a-b04401103888/transcript

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