Queer Zapatista network activist Eme Flores gives Mia an update about the current status of Mexico's terf movement and how they fueled the campaign against Olympic boxer Imane Khelif.
Follow Emi: @EmeAquiFlores
https://pendulo.com/libro/fulgor-de-la-noche-el_337884
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When therefore a man is told you your inner being are so and so because your skull bone is so constituted, this means nothing else than that we regard a bone as the man's reality. To retort upon such a statement, the retort here would properly speaking, have to go to the link, so breaking the skull of the person who makes a statement like that, in order to demonstrate to him in a manner as palpable as his own wisdom, that a bone is nothing of an inherent nature at all for a man still less his true reality. Welcome tock da here, I'm your host, Bia Wong. That was the man himself, George Wilhelm Frederick Hegel from the Phenomenology of Mind.
I'm gonna go full Ceesar shape post here like that's not Hegel?
Lovely and with the iss as as you have just heard. Is Emmie Flores, a queer socialist in Mexico City who's we've had on the show before to talk about Mexican turfs, has worked with Zappotisea Networks, and we are once again, I think, delving into the terrifying, extremely well organized worlds of Mexican turfs, and I guess this is kind of a they're eating a bit of shit episode.
Oh yeah, which is good.
We have good news in this show.
Whoo very rare occurrence we have. We have a little bit of good news. Yeah. Also, welcome to the show. Excited to have you back.
I love it.
I love the show, and I'm happy to update because last time we left on a real sour note and this time, I mean, it's not exactly fantastic news, but things are looking up in this specific part, and I think you're going to introduce us to a massive double we just got worldwide.
Yeah, so we ended up not doing a full episode on this, but one of the big sort of stories for the last few weeks.
And I don't know.
When this episode is gonna be coming out, so maybe this is gonna be ancient news by that point. But the day we're recording this is like one day after the Aegerian boxer in mon khalif U I won the gold medal of the Olympics. She has been I mean, this story has been sort of beaten to death, but like she's been like accused of being a man and being like transgender, and like all of this shit from a whole bunch of like I mean, everyone from like Elon Musk to like jk Rowling to Meggan. Kelly's losing her mind about it. I forgot she even existed until this, but she's apparently around and doing.
This, you know.
So so I think people sort of know the basics of this story, but there's a part of the story about sort of you know, I will, I guess we'll probably get into a little bit of this about how a lot of this is sort of manufactured by a bunch of incredibly sore losers and like weird transphobes in a incredibly corrupt like Russian ran boxing association, right right. But the other side of this, it has gotten absolutely zero coverage anywhere. Is that a huge amount of the attacks against against her were started by the Mexican Turf Network.
Yeah, and so.
Presently one of the few coverages I've seen has been in Mexican like feminist news, which is like part of the things that have changed since then, like Mexican and Latin American feminists have realized, oh, we fucked up, and we're trying to fix our mistakes. But sadly, I think the world suffered one of our latest mistakes.
Yeah, so can you tell us about sort of how this whole thing started, which I think is like several years earlier than most people seem to really like understand.
I think the corruption angle that we might expand a little bit more, that is the beginning of it. And I think it was a little bit and then it was like in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Let's be real, she won gold.
I was not bidding on her winning gold. Like, she's really good, but she's not like the buffest out there. It's pure racism and convenience that she's been labeled and targeted the way the way she is because like you see her opponents and there are the buffiest girls I've ever seen in my life. They're incredible, Like every single athlete up there is amazing. And took pictures of her and say, you're telling me this is not a man Like she's like a little bit skinny, honestly, Like she's really tall, so she has to be skinny to be competing that way.
It's like have you have people ever seen a boxer before, Like it's just bad, Like one of.
The boxers that defended her, like she was offended, Like you're telling me that I've been in many before and like I didn't even qualify for these years Olympics. Like she's not invincible, even if this is probably her best best performance. Yeah, she really shown on the spotlight. I love her, but like she's not extremely muscular or anything. Not that being muscular is masculine, but like this was really just both racism and convenience. But part of that is uh. One of the first people who started complaining about this after the corrupt Russian Russian oliger Glad bucks in Federation that got disqualified from the Olympics.
Yeah, like again I want to I want to pause here, and everyone like take note of this. Do you understand how corrupt of an organization do you have to be for the fucking Olympics to stop working with you? Like you have to make the Chicago fucking machine look squeaky clean for for the Olympics to not work.
Like we're talking about every single other sport is also wing ship like this, Like they just went to greedy like they like it some Russian oligarch that got into fights with people during the war in Ukraine and then they didn't stop doing corruption, Like they couldn't just take a year break, they.
Had to push. Yeah, they had to play two dirty.
So at the end of the day, Imanicat disqualified with like, trust me, pro levels of citations for her. No one knew for a while what was the thing that disqualified her. What was it hormones or chromosomes, vibes? It turns out it's mostly vibes. Yeah, And so when when she got disqualified from a not an Olympic event, but uh corrupt Russian arclead event, a former boxer who lost against her, who's from Mexico, who sucks ass like she's really dog shit. She started posting pictures of her ruses after the match, and honestly, she reminds me of the Italian boxer that also got her ship rocks. Yeah, because they keep She did perform very well in many at the at the end when when she got gold, but the very first like matches she got were against like how did these people get here?
Yeah, like that that Italian boxer, Like this is the only time I will ever say this about something that happened in the Olympics.
It's like the Italian boxer threw the.
Worst punch I've ever seen and then instantly got punched by like the most obvious punch of the entire world in the face.
It's like, wait, what are you doing? How did you get here?
Like and like I won't go deep into why why Brianda Tamara sucks so much as because that would have been the episode we ended up not doing, but suffice it to say, like she's just not in that level. She didn't qualify for a reason this time. But and also I noticed that she was waiting to do her pro deview right now, like something fill planned about all of this. Yeah, Like she she announced that she retired from amateur boxing, which you know, not honestly is the more legit boxing, don't at me. And she she's going bro which means she's now charging for tickets. And she announced her pro deview the same day that this whole like bundles started for international people watching the Olympics, Like she very much knew that the people were gonna try something.
Yeah, so she so she's using this just like boxing promoting, yeah, pretty much, which is like the shady shit, Yeah, boxing.
Promoting in Cinela, which like if you know anything about Mexico, that's that's gonna.
Be a couple of red less oh boy. But so the thing is, why did she knew that she was gonna happen? Really says a lot about how international terms.
Are operating nowadays, right like I don't want to get all fucking Russia Gate and like like have my fucking prosecure body pillow like some leaves have. But terms are trying to get money and influence anywhere they can, and some of them are trying to get in from Russia, right like yeah, it's if they're already putting people in concretion camps in China, like they say, hell, yeah, I want me some of that. And you know the Brits are something too focused on Britain. You need something international to make them. Money flowed down to Latin America, especially out of Spain. Spain kind of hawks it all for themselves. The first news site that took the years ago translated it to English is called Redox Magazine. Like that, I think it's a Canadian joint Redos. It's the only side I've seen in all of like the turf landscape that only publishes in English and Spanish. Like it's very clearly a fulcrum for like terf organizing in Latin America and in the anglosphere. And I don't think it's a coincidence that this story broke quote unquote, like the first people who commented on this and like renewed the accusations of Imani being trans was Redocs and then other like transphobic boxing coaches from Italy and England and the United States started picking up the story. But that was after like the more diplomatically minded Mexican term and Spanish TERFs that usually don't work together.
Again, they don't like to share.
Listen, Mexico doesn't have the best relationship with Spain for allvious reasons. Yeah, but even then, like ass spaces for TERFs in Mexico had been closing, they're looking for funding from other places. Right, the turf gambit didn't work quite well in Mexico, so they're trying to look for international sponsor sponsorships, and they thought they had hit a big one here. They had the attention of the entire world. People were sharing Brianda's photos because like again Brianda doesn't have it's not a good boxer, so she looks like a young short prelated like beer barista, and put her against like someone who's like a head taller that beat her ass because she she sucks.
They couldn't ask for a very propaganda.
Yeah, but it really backfired when the entire world went, what what are you talking about? Yeah, but I think it worked for Mexican TERFs. I think that they might get like a couple of grants here and there they're back in the railar at least internationally.
And that's why I.
Think coming here is really important because we didn't win precisely, and we'll get to that, but at least we're in a stalemate, and I think they're trying to look for either allies or honestly job s elsewhere.
They might just want a spot in Riddos.
Magazine, like to get into like be able to move to Britain or shit like that.
Yeah.
I think it is just something that is important about the Mexican TERFs, which is like unlike in the US, where there's just this like unbelievably large pot of money that you can tap into from like the Heritry Foundation and like all of these sort of like right wing think tanks. It's like the funding is a lot harder to come by.
We all have troubles getting funding.
Yeah, any type of small grant that would be a nothing burger in America goes a long way here, right, And so the far right has been really smart pushing.
Stuff, but it hasn't really paid diviends.
And uh, it's all gonna write up for a while, honestly, especially with like how the economy is going.
I think in the age of infinite.
Money of twenty twenty, like they were willing to throw more money at like a long shot that in Brasila or Mexico right now. They got to bring something to the table, and they tried to bring in money, and they I think they fucking ate shit.
Hell yeah, So okay, you know what else brings something to the table? It is the products and services that I put food on my table. I guess God all the other pars.
Of this.
Here are these ads and we are back.
So I wanted to kind of move to talking about what's been happening in this sort of Mexican feminist scene in in terms of sort of what's what's been going on with turf since the election of the new Mexican president, Claudia Shamebomb. Who's I don't know, Like I think a lot of Americans, I think the conception of her is that she's like significantly further left and she actually is.
Oh yeah, like I you know what, I felt so much Scott and Freud when like people started talking about Kamala like she was gonna end aparthype and and the general.
Side, and I was like, how does see it? Fucking feel sorry?
I got really angry at every single article no one talked her correctly, like both the far right and the left thought she was significantly to the left, like everyone said, like, oh, finally a feminist Jewish woman, and like the Jewish Party is gonna play a part because like I do feel we're gonna see a rise in anti Semitism in Mexico, a big one. Like I feel like a Birther style movement from when Obama was lifted coming up and it's gonna play again. I see Claudia shamebamb She's not just an extension of Amla, and she is I would say, not further to the left then, and there's whatever, but she has less right wing things, right, It's not like she's better than anload, she's just less worse.
She's she because like almost.
Like an old Christian guy, like and I do mean Christian like this is a Catholic country, Anamlod is like I think it's he's like Pentecostal or something like he's never needed like what his relatives said, but he did do like weird right wing things, especially culturally, well I mean not everywhere right, Like we got hell of militarized, like half our infrastructure is owned by the military now, which is like just Jack Carton metoying ourselves like for free. And he goes on brands about how drugs are caused by buying video games and like like he like for for a week, try to like say we should ban Fortnite. That didn't know anywhere, and I think it was just because his son didn't stop playing it.
Maybe he he overspent on the family credit. But like yeah, he's very like he.
Has a very Christian morality and it's a weird fit with Mexicans Catholic one in the weirdest way. Like his very like work will like very Protestant ethics guy, and people didn't talk about that and now they think Claudia is gonna bring like Jewish ethics and no, she's like just like a Mexican scientist, like professional, like she's very much a scientist at least that that's her self conception and how she operates. And she I think a lot of people underestimated her, like they just saw her as an appendage of Handlow, like with no real political document or skill of herself. She doesn't really have a base of voters. Again, she's like an academic, like her base of voters are college graduates left lining college garrets, but not too left learning because otherwise you'll see, like, hey, please stop.
Militaries in our country.
And so we didn't expect her to to who win with like the margins that she did. She won with historic margins, more votes than a logout. It's just she's so fucking.
Shrud And this ties to the TERFs because like four years we were really worried because.
Like we thought she was a turf, Like we straight up thought she was a turf, even though she passed some of the largest like trans positive legislations in Mexico City that was more like momentum from Mexico City being like this progressive center of Mexican politics. And like, I know, I participated in getting that law pass like like she wasn't happy about that. She basically was trying to get some Heritage Foundation funded folks to sit in a table and like have a big discussion, like a very very centrist thing of like let's listen to both sides. And it's because she had like some of the og turfs from Mexico, like from some of them, like that started in the seventies, Like people who knew Jennys Raymond when she was young were literally in Morena structure, like during twenty twenty, like the Women's Agenda for Morena was set by turfs, by some of the the worst turfs, like some of the most internationally well connected turfs too, right, and that was a huge problem. We managed to push back against that with protests, with like talking to politicians, like not really begging, we just you know, that's a nice wind you have there.
That would be a shame thing happened too.
And also that by like my my collective, like we started focusing on like oh god, I don't want to say anymore becaus like since since Ukraine, like saying, oh, since it's so Crain. But like we started like investigating and like tracking, like these people start showing up in like government positions.
That was really worrying.
Some of them were like very clearly affiliated with the far right, but some of them were they came from like union jobs on and she like that, or they were like they were the anarchists throwing bricks that walls like a year ago, and we started seeing them get co opted slowly, and we were really scared. But then I think we underestimated that Claudia was playing us, but she was also playing them, like she is.
A really shrewd political operator, and she.
Gave TERFs enough to get them to do what TERFs do best, which is break up feminist organizing. Yeah, so whatever Cloudy I could not directly co opt to like get like leaders, there were some like black Blocks in Mexico whose leaders like literally had in their linkedins that they were like doing.
Like black blood shit.
Oh my god, I know, it's incredible, And.
It just gave everything away because the same person who did that had in her LinkedIn like a year previously that she was like an eighty for a Morena congress woman.
Oh my god.
And yeah, I.
Think what Morena did was infiltrate a lot of black Blocks to neutralize because during twenty twenty two years after Amlo got elected, like Mexican feminists were I would say the biggest fire in social movements in Mexico, like with the Sapatistas getting surrounded by state sponsored narco cartels and stuff, like they were really paralyzed and with COVID and everything like that, like a lot of other organizing got real damaged. But feminists were like they were trying to get abortion passed, and they succeeded for most of it. But like institutional feminists succeeded banning abortion and more independent or street anarchists, socialist based feminists, they suddenly didn't have anything to demand, so they either got kushi government jobs, or they got arrested, or they helped the police arrest people, like by being like clearly just like you know the classic like eight people get arrested and one of them gets out in like a week, and it's like ah yeah. And so like feminists got are road awakening, and before they were more permissive like cool feminists like real leftists, socialists and queer feminists were more permissive of turfs during like the twenty sixteen two twenty twenty two because they thought, like we need unity within feminism, we need to like get a version passed, we need to like combat both the far right and anulost conservatism, and well they won, and a bunch of their leaders got go up to we have an epidemic of like feminist activists passing laws.
With their names.
Like the one movement that got defeated the worst is anti car solo feminism. Like forget about abolitionism in the carcal sense. It's no one gave a shit about that. Even anarchists were trying to pass laws to like lay Olivia to scalp thats who haven't paid child support. Like they really bet everything on punitivism. And that's the thing that united like every single segment of feminism, including ratference centers, Like they love.
Putting people in jail. It's their whole entire deal.
And so, but the thing is, that's the way you get You co opt someone, You just tell her okay, instead of like being an archopunk like doing tagging government buildings.
What if I just give you a shit a lot of money and I pay for.
You to go to fancy hotels in every state and like talk about how important it is that we throw your x into a.
Into a meat processing machine for like breaking up with you.
Yeah, and I mean I'm being believed, like there's horrible shit, like we have to pass a lot to like give more time to people who through asset at women's faces, right, but like.
That's already legal. It's already legal.
I don't know if it's gonna work that well, especially because like I think one of the most biggest cases of like a literal trafficker just got off jail this week and he literally tortured one of Mexico's biggest rod films, And it's like, what did he you did? Did this all for nothing? Like you're just gonna like lock up more poor people and like rich assholes are gonna walk free. Yeah, and so yeah, that was twenty twenty. Then it got co opted and just like Claudia gave us some loss for trans people.
She put turfs in government positions.
We protested that, and then she dropped them, like she really did a andy with.
Woody, like I don't want to play with you anymore.
Like once she neutralized the feminist movement, once there were like there was no threat of escalation, she really didn't need the black the fake black blocks, She just you know dropped them.
Yeah, And speaking of fake black blocks, you too could buy a fake flack flock from.
These products and services, and we are back.
Yeah, so let's get into what's been happening in kind of present day. The thing that's really interesting to me about like about the way that sort of Mexican turf stuff works is that they in a way that's kind I don't know, American TERFs kind of work like this, Like they really function in a very similar way to like left social movements, right, except that they're like newer world social movement for evil. But it's like like they have a lot of the same kind of like strengths and weaknesses that that like conventional like social movements have, which I think ties into a lot of what's going to happen to them and the fact that you can you know, and in the same way that you can co opt to social movement, like they're also vulnerable to that.
Yeah.
Well when money d I saw and like the options are stop organizing. As a feminist, like I cannot tell you how many lesbian services turfs are married and pregnant.
Now, it's like.
They just dropped that shit like shame and dropped them like Shama didn't do it of the kindness of her heart. I think she realized that this was a vulnerability. She needed to convince like the Jacobins of the world that she was this socialist president like Amblo but even better now in feminist form, and she really couldn't do that if there was like these huge like people who didn't even pay attention to Mexican politics but just jk rowling, Like this was just a huge vulnerability.
She also didn't want this mostly to be a debate.
I heard rumors and I buy them completely, Like that she pushed for no trans women being legislators in our congress. Ye, because we had we had two before. One of them stopped ass and the other one was kind of fine, like just normal lefty centrist woman.
The other one was just horrible. So it's honestly, I'm going with it.
Yeah, that's the situation we're about to have here, where like we're gonna get our first trapser of a congress. Bitch is absolutely dog shit like terrible Zietists.
Like, yeah, they were to work with they consistently.
I think they were just there to like waste her fucking time that you would have a meeting with them. It should so should we like pass this legislation saying that you can have like no gender on your voter ready, and.
That took the whole six years Jesus Christ, and I didn't even want.
It, like I haven't even changed my legal things, so like it's not my priority. But it was a lot of people's priorities, and they kind of wasted our whole communities time.
But even that was not enough.
I think Shama just didn't want headlines, Like she was content for other other people.
To handle the quote unquote debate.
She didn't want anything to do with it because she it only cost her. Like the reason she defended some terms is that some of them were like loyal to her, and that's what she wanted. She wanted loyalty because she needed party loyalty to like have a tight grip on Monna because what she knew, she could win pretty easily. She didn't need to appeal to the right or the center right, and good for her, Like I'm an antil electoralist, but like electoralists should not fucking listen to suburban moms, Like.
Who gives a shit.
Yeah, going more to the left is, to a certain extent, is better electorally, Like just look at the numbers between Paris and buy them. And it's just vibes. It's not even like real policy, but just the vibes. Like you don't need you don't need to listen to pan voters because they're Pan voters.
They're not gonna vote for Monna.
And like the right here in Mexico is really weird because like they have this really like neo liberal view, but their culture is so aristocratic.
It's kind of like what if thems were like very.
Stories, like because they hate hate for people, not like Republicans hate for people, like because they also pretend to be for people. Panistas don't. They lost half because Shane Bawn really took hold of moderna structure and mobilized it to vote in a way that was unprecedented, even more than Anlo's vote. And because like Panisa just couldn't shut up about how racist they are. They were just constantly saying the most horrible shit about Morena voters. And there were campaigns by pant saying go vote because they thought that like Amlo is like a dictator, because they really think that everyone is addicted. Everyone that's to the left of Mussolini is a dictator and almost a dictator, So go out and vote. They thought, like citizen participation is gonna destroy the Anblo regime from We're gonna be back to Mexico instead of being not and.
So.
But the thing is, when you send most of the population to vote, they're not gonna vote for like the most repugnant, classiest people ever. And the candidate they chose was not a foreign candidate like such a Galvez was an indigenous woman. Like they thought they were gonna outflank shame and with that, but they didn't like she success such a tool.
She's not far right.
She used to be in Perde, which was also an un lost party, but she was part of like when when Pang got into power in two thousand, she was the one in charge of the negotiation with the Elena and she betrayed the Sapatistas.
Jesus Christ.
She was not gonna get any indigenous vote, like so this is the first time the right does this, right, like pun did the fucking classic damn thing of like offering a wired down version of the the other candidate, and they lost enormously and a lot of turfs. To get back to the topic, a lot of ters bet on both of them, they were really hedging. They wanted to be especially more institutional terms. They said, as long as we get a women president, we're gonna be cool.
Yeah. That like backfired on them.
Yeah, oh yeah, Like Shamba, like I said, what she cares about is loyalty. She didn't care about brad films because she believed in them, just like she didn't care about trans people because she believed in us. She wanted loyal like loyal dogs. And if you are hedging your beds, yeah you and she wins with sixty percent, you're not gonna see a single cent from the arms.
Yeah.
She kind of Okay, this is like this is an absolutely deranged comparison, but she kind of reminds me of Jin Ping in the way that, like the way the way that Chijinping does politics is by.
Every single more ina geopolitics, not just fainted.
When you say that, she's to say no, because like Chijin Ping's like political style is sort of you know, he's been he's been very very good at like like centralizing the bureaucracy around him and sort of like neutralizing social moves.
And this has been a classic.
Like a sort of long range like post culture revolution like Chinese comedies party, think of like we need to make sure there's not treat movements we need to sort of neutralize.
Yeah, it's also aims, you know.
Yeah, but it's also like you know, Jiji Ping sort of very much is also like a loyalty guy, right, He's like, you know, he he will he will sort of set up anti corruption things to like per people who are like aren't loyal to him, because that's you know, that's that's the way that this kind of like centralizing politics works, and it's it's traspa is really interesting that like we're seeing this with we're saying this with the TERFs. Route was like, well, you guys, like I'm sorry, you guys weren't fucking loyal enough. So like each ship you're gonna get get ed coruption campaigned.
There's people that we proted that are super close to Shamebelnd that we were really scared would get government positions and were TERFs. They didn't get shipped. There's no like trans legislature, but there's also no terf legislators. Yeah, there's a world where that could have happened that we would have been fucked. I think without our protests, like not just the ones we organized from my collective, the d Decids kind of know that we were focused on some of the closest to Shamebeln but like every transperson knew that, like this was something real lad and we kind of put a stop to it. But and it'll been a stalemate because again, what Shame did was defend her loyal terms and she moved them to positions outside of the spotlight honestly more suited to their to their Italians, Like her terms were not really charismatic. She was trying to set them up like as influencers and like they just had.
There's no juice at all.
That is a classics like just being the most juiceless motherfuckers and the planet.
Absolutely and like really in concuring politics. Yeah, because like they again they were they were kind of like they're more like lefty in discourse.
They were very nationalists obviously, but also like they were.
Hyping how feminist she was and like, oh, we're gonna confront American imperialism and while at the same time like being obsessed with like British TERFs.
So like it was really contradictory.
So Morena calls their movement, like the forty the fourth Transformation, which is like just I won't even get into it. It's just such a fucking bizarre thing.
Did have a transformation or something? Was he also doing the fourth Transformation?
It's like no, no, it's like the Independence when we kicked Francis ass and then revolution. Those are the three and then and then the fourth is him right, like he's saying like I'm I'm Benita quaas reborn and uh yeah.
Cringe, but like it's stuck.
Honestly, I use it because like it's such a good shorthand because morena is so large, such such a big word, and its salts.
Cringe because like.
Morena, which means morena means like brown skin. So and also like bon morena, which is like Mexico's virgin mary, so very queen. Even for quarter is even less cringe. So yeah, sure, whatever, But like one of the most famous Mexican Mexican feminists started calling them the quarter.
Oh my god, and that stocks.
It's really fucking look like it, so that stock.
But basically quarter is not out of power like the most ambitious ones and the most purely turfs got quick kicked out and the loyal dogs got sent to do like other jobs. Like they're now talking to academics about like green progressive socialism and shit, like they're just doing talks in like with like eighty year old tenured professors and like that is still riskin and there's we're still watching them closely. But I think Simon told them, like I'm gonna protect you, but you need to shut the fuck up.
You better not.
Say the word rands for six years, go go knots afterwards. But you're gonna have a job and you're gonna have a possibility of returning and that I'm not gonna help you. That's on you, and like, honestly, at least that's a fair playing field.
I'll take it. I'll fucking take it.
So yeah, I guess like the state of things seems to be that the deal is we're just gonna take like trans people as a political issue off the table for yeah, whatever many years.
Well, I think we're we're gonna she's gonna let like states handle it, like if a trans law assess in a state, she's gonna let it. And I don't think anti translats are gonna have a.
Good time interesting trying to pass because the Right Age ship.
Yeah, they really thought they were gonna at least have a competitive edge, and no one voted. And again like there's a lot of Turfs that were more aligned with the far right, but they were not acting like it. The rhetoric didn't look until a couple of months ago, like the rhetoric that Britain or the US turfs have both types of US turf that I think there's we have every single type of irf here in Mexico. If you can think of a type of nerf, we have it. I think Britain is mostly wine moms and the US is both angio freaks and like hippie where those like ex anarchists, they bring resistance types right, like.
Yeah, well I need to draw the light here, damnit. But the decree resistance people were never anarchists. They were always they were always weird primitivist. But like vang like Vanguard is primitivists.
Yeah, I know, I love that our recalled by Julie who accompanied me in the least episode about someone fing a hot dog and it fucking rules. But yeah, right, like we had that, like we even have like a deep rear system to Mexico thing going on for like a couple of years. So Mexican terms here that align themselves with the far right are gonna see both less resources because the far right is healing some Bruce Eagles, So the Writing Front gonna have to go full fascist, which oh they.
Will, Yeah many such cases.
Yeah, they can.
No longer get money from like your center right, like respectable democracy people who are basically are just right. They don't they They spend most of their time like just complaining how like Maduro and Amlow and like treating like everyone's the same thing because the only thing they want is like just they want new liberalism, and I'm tired of telling them we have new liberalism, ye, Like why am I just new realism with a little bit of just enough like welfare state to like keep everything from blowing up. So yeah, this that's the case here. They ate shit, They don't have money, so they either have to find local fascists with which they have or they have to appeal to Brits with things like the boxing scandal.
Yeah, and that sort of brings us full circle to like I guess literally the present day, as in like the time this is being recorded, where their big attempts to like generate a bunch of revenue for themselves and like bring themselves back in the spotlight has kind of blown up with their faces.
Yeah and listen.
One of the few good parts of like modernask co option of feminism is that some previously, like I don't want to say controversial, but like, there were really a lot of campaigns to try to remove prestige from any any prominent trans inclusive feminists in Mexico. Mexican academia and Mexican like high feminism really started to go full Wratham in twenty sixteen, and it started by trying to attack any single prestigious feminist that was not a TERRF. Chief amongst them is Marta Lamas, who I love her. She's extremely live, but like, I still love her because she she comes from a history of like not quite radical but not quite radical Mexican academia that like says she like reformist in method radical in objectives.
Sure, sure, but she at least.
Thinks it's true and lives by it. And she is if you want to read stuff by her. She has one of the best accounts of the history of sex work in Mexico. Full water and Anache, a fantastic book, fully recommended.
Yeah, we'll put a link to that in the description.
Yeah, so she got into like the mayor of Mexico City's team. She is now in Clara Brugala's team, and Clara is like the front runner for the next presidential candidate. She is not Chambain's friend. So my suspicion is that Shaban is keeping her terfsunreserved to push.
Back against Clara.
Oh interesting to.
Find another female candidate and proper up as the feminist successor to Claudia or a male candidate like she needs like feminists on her side on reserve to combat like Clara. Who Clara again, it's further to live than Chamblaine, and she doesn't.
Come from an academic background.
She comes from a grassroots urban movement background in the like thehood of Mexico City. In turn, Brugada needs more institutional and like legit support. And Marta Lamas while she was controversial because of TERFs smearing her, but she is Marta fucking Lamas and she is white as hell. So Clara got her in her team and now she gets to be the chief leftist feminist in Mexico because like, if Kadia starts sucking so much about feminism, well she's a Google search away from.
Like turf scandals.
Yeah yeah, and.
Nata really pushed back against turf influence in Mona, which I'm really frank like, if you're gonna be co opted this, that's the least amount of like allyship you need to do.
All right?
Yeah yeah, even push the turfs out from your like fucking mansion.
We can push X to the to the left, Well, then do it.
I people love saying they want to push politicians to the left, and then don't push push politicians.
To the left. They just want to lose the critic power.
Yeah. Yeah, is there anything else that you want to make sure we get you before we wrap up?
I think wrapping up to the Readogs magazine. Keep an eye on like those kinds of places that are trying to connect things, because we already saw that this can spill over from Mexico or Brazil or Korea.
Yeah.
I think Korea is gonna be bad.
Yeah. Yeah.
So the thing about Korea I haven't done much about. We probably will at some point cover this stuff in Korea. Korea is having a really really sort of unbelievable sort of anti feminist backlash. But this has also had the impact of like really empowering the rat femmes. Yeah, and it's it's a complete catastrophe.
Yeah, I would really advise against idealizing feminist movements.
Ealesworth. Yeah, do your research.
Don't just accept on face value that like a face you know from a third word country is gonna.
Be like the voice of the Global South. That's just not fucking true.
Like, if you hear a face of the Global South, it's probably because there's.
Money behind it.
Like, yeah, unless you're really deep and know your shit, the first thing that's gonna show up is gonna have money behind it.
So be really careful.
With other feminist ones. I saw how people idealized Mexican feminism not knowing just how deep both infiltrated by the government and.
Paid by fire red groups, and that really backfire.
Like one of the only survivors of right leaning but left presenting feminists that's called Brujas Mara. Yeah, they're probably the only europe that's going to survive during the Shamebane presidence.
Yeah, big turf group.
Yeah, they never tried.
To get close to Shamba, but also they never dropped the mask fully and they're one of the biggest pushers of name imanything. Not the originators, those are the more internationally connected, but they were the biggest pushers of it.
They have the most followers. They really prison narrative.
They were featured in Times one hundred, like AARUSIONDA was Times one hundred from Mexico. So be really careful of who you think are supporting. Yeah, because this is going to be happening. I think it's it might be over for now in Mexico and we I think we didn't win, but maybe we can stop them from researching in five years or so, and then I think that would really steal the deal. But this is going to be happening everywhere where. You're gonna see it a lot in like African feminist movements, in South Southeast Asian feminist movements. You're gonna see it pop up all over the world. Take a lesson from Mexico and look for trans folks over there, ask them, hey, is this person cool?
Yeah, just the minimum.
Do diligence before, like sharing gofundsman ship, like please, for the love of.
God, we again. A toler goes a long way here.
So if if feel like you give something that would barely cover rent for someone in the United States, that's enough to set up an organization here, yeah, and really fuck local politics for years to come.
So I don't know, Please be careful.
Yeah.
So if people want to find you and the stuff that you do that is not ship, where can they find you?
Well, I'm on x everything apps as a flores and also i have a podcast called Fatista Knkrema. It's a really good point in Spanish, trust me. And I'm also trying to launch a project that's gonna be like a sort of media watchdoggy thing. Again, we were working with like sense here, so it's gonna.
Take a while.
Yeah, I keep an eye out if I don't know, if you if you wanna learn more stuff about Mexican like what's going on beyond, like either far right news like that saw Shambane in a photograph with a trans flag and friked out, or just like people who take everything at face value and believe that Chamber One is the second coming of Marx.
So I don't know. I'll try to keep folks posted because it's.
Complicated, Like, yeah, it took us an hour to talk about even just one topic.
Yeah, things complicated? Who who?
Who could possibly have guessed that? You know, it's it's difficult to understand, very complue to political configurations.
Yeah.
So yeah, for now I'm only on xicus and YouTube again for Conkrema I do I stream on Twitch. Honestly, this is gonna sound maybe you're gonna gonna call this, but I really admire y'all. Like, honestly, I both that and not a little bit of envy. I wish there's not a really an ecosystem of like content creation or news from a leftist perspective here.
Like most of the people again, a lot of them also got co opted.
A lot of friends I had in like independent leftists publishing and news in Mexico are now like full on like just modern spokespeople. Or they went insane and anti vax and like now they're far right. Well yeah, many such cases. Yeah, so this is where they could app here.
You can find us in the places and until then, I defeat your local TERFs.
Yeah, and don't become.
Jimidor back to.
It could happen here as a production of coulsone Media for more podcasts, Cool Zone media. Visit our website coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can find sources for It could happen here, Updated monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.