The Australian Disability Network do some wonderful work and they've got a very big week happening literally as we speak with their impact 2025 conference. I think we can say one of the stars of the conference is Rosie Lane, who's on the line. Rosie. Lovely to meet you. Thank you for your time.

The Australian Disability Network do some wonderful work and they've got a very big week happening literally as we speak with their impact 2025 conference. I think we can say one of the stars of the conference is Rosie Lane, who's on the line. Rosie. Lovely to meet you. Thank you for your time.

Hi, Peter. Lovely to meet you. Thank you for the generous introduction. One of many, many stars.

Hi, Peter. Lovely to meet you. Thank you for the generous introduction. One of many, many stars.

That's the nice, nice of you to be sharing the limelight. Now what? You've been with Australian Disability Network for about six years or so, but fairly recently you've taken on the role that you're in at the moment.

That's the nice, nice of you to be sharing the limelight. Now what? You've been with Australian Disability Network for about six years or so, but fairly recently you've taken on the role that you're in at the moment.

Yes. That's right. So nearly six years, um, all up and have just stepped in to, uh, head of training and advisory role in the last couple of months.

Yes. That's right. So nearly six years, um, all up and have just stepped in to, uh, head of training and advisory role in the last couple of months.

Tell us what that kind of involves. I'll get this reasonably self-explanatory, but, uh, give us a bit more of a flesh it out a bit.

Tell us what that kind of involves. I'll get this reasonably self-explanatory, but, uh, give us a bit more of a flesh it out a bit.

Yes. Of course. So, um, that involves leading a wonderful team of consultants who deliver work ranging from our dignified access reviews. So looking at physical accessibility of premises. Training. Disability Confident Recruiter Program which supports employers to remove barriers to employment for people with disability, and the Access and Inclusion Index, which is what I've been leading for the last two and a half years or so.

Yes. Of course. So, um, that involves leading a wonderful team of consultants who deliver work ranging from our dignified access reviews. So looking at physical accessibility of premises. Training. Disability Confident Recruiter Program which supports employers to remove barriers to employment for people with disability, and the Access and Inclusion Index, which is what I've been leading for the last two and a half years or so.

Yeah, we talk about the index in a moment, but that's obviously quite interesting as far as just the title itself goes. We'd like to dig into that a little bit more. What about in the training area? I guess there's kind of two sides to it. Someone like the Australian Disability Network have to say, well, we've got Rosie here who can be very important in that area, but then you've got to get people who want to hear you. I'm sure after today, even more people want to hear. But you know what I mean. You've got to have kind of two sides of the equation for it to to work.

Yeah, we talk about the index in a moment, but that's obviously quite interesting as far as just the title itself goes. We'd like to dig into that a little bit more. What about in the training area? I guess there's kind of two sides to it. Someone like the Australian Disability Network have to say, well, we've got Rosie here who can be very important in that area, but then you've got to get people who want to hear you. I'm sure after today, even more people want to hear. But you know what I mean. You've got to have kind of two sides of the equation for it to to work.

Yes, of course, it's very much about that demand, that employer demand, which is what we're all about. Um, and we're lucky to have a wonderful network of Australian employers who are that audience and who want to hear from us.

Yes, of course, it's very much about that demand, that employer demand, which is what we're all about. Um, and we're lucky to have a wonderful network of Australian employers who are that audience and who want to hear from us.

How's that going? I mean, how do you get your message out there? And I guess from their point of view and also your point of view. It's kind of word of mouth. If you know one employer has a good experience, they'll tell another. And on we go.

How's that going? I mean, how do you get your message out there? And I guess from their point of view and also your point of view. It's kind of word of mouth. If you know one employer has a good experience, they'll tell another. And on we go.

Yeah, absolutely. That is a big part of how we get the word out. Uh, our conference, of course, impact is another flagship event that tends to draw a lot of eyes and ears and attention. But certainly we always say, you know, we're a network for a reason for so many of our wonderful organizations that we work with have been referred by another, which is really excellent.

Yeah, absolutely. That is a big part of how we get the word out. Uh, our conference, of course, impact is another flagship event that tends to draw a lot of eyes and ears and attention. But certainly we always say, you know, we're a network for a reason for so many of our wonderful organizations that we work with have been referred by another, which is really excellent.

Yeah. Word of mouth is very, very powerful. So is there kind of a key message or can you kind of boil it down? I mean, I guess you also kind of individualize it if you like. There's not sort of one size fits all in terms of the message trying to get out there.

Yeah. Word of mouth is very, very powerful. So is there kind of a key message or can you kind of boil it down? I mean, I guess you also kind of individualize it if you like. There's not sort of one size fits all in terms of the message trying to get out there.

Absolutely. But I think our key message is and always has been to work towards our vision. The disability confident Australia and the message for employers is that access and inclusion for people with disability, while it's a large topic, there's plenty that can be done. Sometimes it's about starting with something. You know, there's always something that we can do as individuals or as, you know, even large organizations that will help to move that dial and increase the proportion of Australians with disability who are employed. And so I think our key message is always, you know, start something. Find one thing that you want to do as an organization that's going to contribute to that change. And then it can just be good and build.

Absolutely. But I think our key message is and always has been to work towards our vision. The disability confident Australia and the message for employers is that access and inclusion for people with disability, while it's a large topic, there's plenty that can be done. Sometimes it's about starting with something. You know, there's always something that we can do as individuals or as, you know, even large organizations that will help to move that dial and increase the proportion of Australians with disability who are employed. And so I think our key message is always, you know, start something. Find one thing that you want to do as an organization that's going to contribute to that change. And then it can just be good and build.

That employment thing is such an interesting aspect, isn't it? I mean, people probably sick of me saying this, but I always get a bit. I'm not sure what the word is a bit antsy, I guess when you hear about the unemployment rate 4%, 4.1%, 3.9 I mean, that is so, um, inaccurate when it comes to employing people with disabilities.

That employment thing is such an interesting aspect, isn't it? I mean, people probably sick of me saying this, but I always get a bit. I'm not sure what the word is a bit antsy, I guess when you hear about the unemployment rate 4%, 4.1%, 3.9 I mean, that is so, um, inaccurate when it comes to employing people with disabilities.

Yeah, it really is. And we know that that hasn't moved for people with disability really in the last 30 years or so. So that's a big driver of the work that we do at Australian Disability Network. And we know that, you know, um, there's the employee side and making sure that people with disability are, you know, set up for success. But where we work is on that demand side and on that employer side actually saying, well, we need our employers to be able to welcome people with disability into the workforce and to have the confidence and the tools that they need.

Yeah, it really is. And we know that that hasn't moved for people with disability really in the last 30 years or so. So that's a big driver of the work that we do at Australian Disability Network. And we know that, you know, um, there's the employee side and making sure that people with disability are, you know, set up for success. But where we work is on that demand side and on that employer side actually saying, well, we need our employers to be able to welcome people with disability into the workforce and to have the confidence and the tools that they need.

That's an important word, confidence, isn't it? Because I guess, you know, at the end of the day, everyone well, most people I think have got a really good heart, if you like, or most people are, have got a social conscience if you like and want to give everyone a go. But maybe if they don't feel confident, you know that can often be something that can can put people off. Or maybe we'll just leave it a little bit longer, or we'll suck it and see how we go. Maybe this time next year that that sort of attitude.

That's an important word, confidence, isn't it? Because I guess, you know, at the end of the day, everyone well, most people I think have got a really good heart, if you like, or most people are, have got a social conscience if you like and want to give everyone a go. But maybe if they don't feel confident, you know that can often be something that can can put people off. Or maybe we'll just leave it a little bit longer, or we'll suck it and see how we go. Maybe this time next year that that sort of attitude.

Yes. And I think it's also people can be just not wanting to do the wrong thing. And they don't want to make other people feel uncomfortable. They really want to. Right. And often it's just about not quite knowing how. And that's where we can come in to support with that, because otherwise it does potentially get pushed down the next plan the next year. And that is not ideal for anyone.

Yes. And I think it's also people can be just not wanting to do the wrong thing. And they don't want to make other people feel uncomfortable. They really want to. Right. And often it's just about not quite knowing how. And that's where we can come in to support with that, because otherwise it does potentially get pushed down the next plan the next year. And that is not ideal for anyone.

Yeah, that can gets kicked further down the road. As you say, no one wins from that. What about in terms of government raising? I don't want to get you too much into trouble, but the kind of roles that governments at all level can play. I mean, we're here in Australia. We've got a lot of governments, local, state and federal governments. Uh, I mean, there's a lot of people that are employed in that area.

Yeah, that can gets kicked further down the road. As you say, no one wins from that. What about in terms of government raising? I don't want to get you too much into trouble, but the kind of roles that governments at all level can play. I mean, we're here in Australia. We've got a lot of governments, local, state and federal governments. Uh, I mean, there's a lot of people that are employed in that area.

Yes, there absolutely is. And we have many, many government departments at all levels, local, state, federal who are members of our network as well, because, as you say, they are large employers and they can really help to drive that change, both from that perspective and then of course, more from the legislative perspective. So definitely a big part of the key, I guess, um, alongside with, you know, your private and non-profit sectors who also can drive change in their own ways, which look slightly different, but also no less impactful, I think.

Yes, there absolutely is. And we have many, many government departments at all levels, local, state, federal who are members of our network as well, because, as you say, they are large employers and they can really help to drive that change, both from that perspective and then of course, more from the legislative perspective. So definitely a big part of the key, I guess, um, alongside with, you know, your private and non-profit sectors who also can drive change in their own ways, which look slightly different, but also no less impactful, I think.

Do you dabble much in the for profit? I mean, I guess not for profit. We kind of, you know, we kind of know about a lot of those organizations. So say. What about the for profits? Do you have a sort of toe in the water when it comes to that sector?

Do you dabble much in the for profit? I mean, I guess not for profit. We kind of, you know, we kind of know about a lot of those organizations. So say. What about the for profits? Do you have a sort of toe in the water when it comes to that sector?

Yes, absolutely. A large number of our members, proportion of our members are big for profit employers, which is fabulous because they employ a lot of people. And some of our members are organisations who might be employers for people, you know, first, um, joining the workforce. So, you know, it's all the way through to those senior roles. So yeah, we're across, um, all of those sectors, which is really interesting because they're so, um, much that we can learn and apply kind of both within and and between those different types of sectors and their different focuses.

Yes, absolutely. A large number of our members, proportion of our members are big for profit employers, which is fabulous because they employ a lot of people. And some of our members are organisations who might be employers for people, you know, first, um, joining the workforce. So, you know, it's all the way through to those senior roles. So yeah, we're across, um, all of those sectors, which is really interesting because they're so, um, much that we can learn and apply kind of both within and and between those different types of sectors and their different focuses.

I know the Brisbane Paralympics, you know, seven years away. So why off into the future? But one thing that happened around the Sydney Paralympic Games with some of the the big sponsors that were involved with the games, they took on a number of athletes with disabilities as employees and hopefully that kind of thing sort of stuck and maybe even grew as there's going to be a long time before we host another game, seven years. So we want action before then. But events like that can kind of raise awareness and, you know, sort of make it a bit more mainstream, if I can put it that way.

I know the Brisbane Paralympics, you know, seven years away. So why off into the future? But one thing that happened around the Sydney Paralympic Games with some of the the big sponsors that were involved with the games, they took on a number of athletes with disabilities as employees and hopefully that kind of thing sort of stuck and maybe even grew as there's going to be a long time before we host another game, seven years. So we want action before then. But events like that can kind of raise awareness and, you know, sort of make it a bit more mainstream, if I can put it that way.

Yeah, absolutely. I think it puts that into the sort of the public consciousness in a way that it might not be in between. Um, and, you know, business. Respond to that. Right. That's where the demand is. That's where the interest is. It's in their interest to be making those connections. And we have seen some, I think, really, uh, great examples of that from Sydney and even, you know, our, um, Paralympic campaigns in the intervening years. So I yeah, I'm excited. I think that's a really great opportunity for, for Australia in terms of our representation of people with disability.

Yeah, absolutely. I think it puts that into the sort of the public consciousness in a way that it might not be in between. Um, and, you know, business. Respond to that. Right. That's where the demand is. That's where the interest is. It's in their interest to be making those connections. And we have seen some, I think, really, uh, great examples of that from Sydney and even, you know, our, um, Paralympic campaigns in the intervening years. So I yeah, I'm excited. I think that's a really great opportunity for, for Australia in terms of our representation of people with disability.

And I'm really lucky to do a program like this. There seems to be a lot of young people doing wonderful things in the area of education, as in, they're getting a good education, they're doing pretty cool things at universities, etc. so, you know, if they can have that good education, that's got to be a bit of a, a ticket into, uh, a good job as well.

And I'm really lucky to do a program like this. There seems to be a lot of young people doing wonderful things in the area of education, as in, they're getting a good education, they're doing pretty cool things at universities, etc. so, you know, if they can have that good education, that's got to be a bit of a, a ticket into, uh, a good job as well.

Yeah, absolutely. That's, um, you know, we know the impact that that can have on somebody's career. And I think the more diversity we can have in our students graduating and moving through into those roles, that can only be a good thing.

Yeah, absolutely. That's, um, you know, we know the impact that that can have on somebody's career. And I think the more diversity we can have in our students graduating and moving through into those roles, that can only be a good thing.

So you're talking one of the things that you're featuring at the conference is insights to impact. Tell us a bit about that.

So you're talking one of the things that you're featuring at the conference is insights to impact. Tell us a bit about that.

Absolutely. So that is focused around the Access and Inclusion Index, which I mentioned earlier. And that is really focused around how some of the organizations that have participated in the Access and Inclusion Index have used the insights from the going through that process to drive impact for that organization or disability confidence.

Absolutely. So that is focused around the Access and Inclusion Index, which I mentioned earlier. And that is really focused around how some of the organizations that have participated in the Access and Inclusion Index have used the insights from the going through that process to drive impact for that organization or disability confidence.

A little bit more about the index.

A little bit more about the index.

Happily. So the index is a benchmarking tool. It's a national benchmark for access and inclusion maturity for Australian organizations. And we look across nine areas of the business. So it's really, really broad. It recognises that all areas of a business have a role to play in driving access and inclusion maturity. So the way that it works very, very quickly is that organizations go through and self-assess. So they, um, work through the um, assessment, let us know where they think they sit, provide supporting evidence that demonstrates that our team then evaluate that. Have a look. See if we agree with that self-assessment or whether there's a different maturity level. And then we bring all of that together. And organizations receive a personalized report that lets them know where they're sitting in terms of their maturity, um, across the organization and crucially, recommendations for next steps as well. What they could do next to really build on from wherever they are.

Happily. So the index is a benchmarking tool. It's a national benchmark for access and inclusion maturity for Australian organizations. And we look across nine areas of the business. So it's really, really broad. It recognises that all areas of a business have a role to play in driving access and inclusion maturity. So the way that it works very, very quickly is that organizations go through and self-assess. So they, um, work through the um, assessment, let us know where they think they sit, provide supporting evidence that demonstrates that our team then evaluate that. Have a look. See if we agree with that self-assessment or whether there's a different maturity level. And then we bring all of that together. And organizations receive a personalized report that lets them know where they're sitting in terms of their maturity, um, across the organization and crucially, recommendations for next steps as well. What they could do next to really build on from wherever they are.

Is that kind of a voluntary sort of opt in, uh, index that people get into?

Is that kind of a voluntary sort of opt in, uh, index that people get into?

Yes it is. Yeah.

Yes it is. Yeah.

And what about in terms of those that take it up and those that sort of respond to your recommendations?

And what about in terms of those that take it up and those that sort of respond to your recommendations?

Yes. What we see and what we really encourage organisations to do is to come back and participate regularly. So often that will be every couple of years. So organizations will get their report. They'll have that list of recommendations. They then normally go away, pull that together into a plan, start implementing those recommendations, and then come back again to see whether it's sitting the next time and what we see from organizations coming back and doing it again is that their maturity increases. Yep. So each time they participate, there's a jump up in terms of their maturity.

Yes. What we see and what we really encourage organisations to do is to come back and participate regularly. So often that will be every couple of years. So organizations will get their report. They'll have that list of recommendations. They then normally go away, pull that together into a plan, start implementing those recommendations, and then come back again to see whether it's sitting the next time and what we see from organizations coming back and doing it again is that their maturity increases. Yep. So each time they participate, there's a jump up in terms of their maturity.

I guess it's kind of a commitment that they make. So they kind of want it to to increase wouldn't they.

I guess it's kind of a commitment that they make. So they kind of want it to to increase wouldn't they.

Yeah, definitely. And um, the good thing about the index as well is that we can benchmark. So we actually let organizations know where they sit compared to the cohort as a whole, so they can not only see where where they are and what they're doing, but they can see compares to other organizations. And that could be quite a powerful motivator, particularly for those private organizations that I mentioned before, although, you know, government as well, sometimes, um, a little bit of healthy competition can help to kind of drive some of that desire to do to do better. Apart from, of course, wanting to do it to to increase the accessibility and inclusion.

Yeah, definitely. And um, the good thing about the index as well is that we can benchmark. So we actually let organizations know where they sit compared to the cohort as a whole, so they can not only see where where they are and what they're doing, but they can see compares to other organizations. And that could be quite a powerful motivator, particularly for those private organizations that I mentioned before, although, you know, government as well, sometimes, um, a little bit of healthy competition can help to kind of drive some of that desire to do to do better. Apart from, of course, wanting to do it to to increase the accessibility and inclusion.

The right thing anyway, you kind of you kind of have an index for the index. I guess what I'm saying is, do you kind of see how things have progressed on a more holistic level or sort of more across the board level as well?

The right thing anyway, you kind of you kind of have an index for the index. I guess what I'm saying is, do you kind of see how things have progressed on a more holistic level or sort of more across the board level as well?

Yeah, we do. Um, and that's something that we will be releasing hopefully in the next couple of months or so, is actually that benchmark report to have a look at the 2024 cohort, but also have a look at some of the trends that we've seen across the last year or so of the index. So getting that understanding of what access and inclusion looks like in Australia, um, right now.

Yeah, we do. Um, and that's something that we will be releasing hopefully in the next couple of months or so, is actually that benchmark report to have a look at the 2024 cohort, but also have a look at some of the trends that we've seen across the last year or so of the index. So getting that understanding of what access and inclusion looks like in Australia, um, right now.

Is the Australian Disability Network the only organisation or one of the few organisations that does this?

Is the Australian Disability Network the only organisation or one of the few organisations that does this?

Yeah, certainly in Australia there's definitely a number of other indices out there in other markets, and there's a few that are a little bit more kind of specific as well in Australia in terms of access and inclusion. So we are not the only 1 or 1 of the only ones. I'm a bit biased, I think. Of course ours is is the most robust and the best one. But yeah, there's there's a couple of them floating around, which is really interesting as well.

Yeah, certainly in Australia there's definitely a number of other indices out there in other markets, and there's a few that are a little bit more kind of specific as well in Australia in terms of access and inclusion. So we are not the only 1 or 1 of the only ones. I'm a bit biased, I think. Of course ours is is the most robust and the best one. But yeah, there's there's a couple of them floating around, which is really interesting as well.

Is I mean, you know, I'm not in a non positive way, but an index is kind of easy to follow as well isn't it. Like, you know, rather than, you know, being all these words, all these long reports, if you're getting kind of marked on an index, it's maybe a little bit easier to kind of follow, you know, how are we going? Oh yeah. Like last year was this good. This year it's, you know, two years later it's this score. Like we're improving.

Is I mean, you know, I'm not in a non positive way, but an index is kind of easy to follow as well isn't it. Like, you know, rather than, you know, being all these words, all these long reports, if you're getting kind of marked on an index, it's maybe a little bit easier to kind of follow, you know, how are we going? Oh yeah. Like last year was this good. This year it's, you know, two years later it's this score. Like we're improving.

Yeah. Yeah. It does make it quite easy to see those um improvements, the areas that there might be still some opportunity. The difference between where an organization self assesses and where they sit. And that can be really interesting to see the difference between where, you know, and often the the teams who are really involved in the index submission are people that are working on accessibility and inclusion all the time within their organizations. They see a lot of it having come from kind of that external bird's eye view could be really useful as well to get a sense of that. So yeah, the data piece is really helpful because I think it does make it quite clear. Um, but then we also provide those recommendations so that organisations can build that roadmap. They don't have to sit and think, oh, we've got all this information. We don't know what to do next. We can say, all right, here's where we could go. The directions that we could take this.

Yeah. Yeah. It does make it quite easy to see those um improvements, the areas that there might be still some opportunity. The difference between where an organization self assesses and where they sit. And that can be really interesting to see the difference between where, you know, and often the the teams who are really involved in the index submission are people that are working on accessibility and inclusion all the time within their organizations. They see a lot of it having come from kind of that external bird's eye view could be really useful as well to get a sense of that. So yeah, the data piece is really helpful because I think it does make it quite clear. Um, but then we also provide those recommendations so that organisations can build that roadmap. They don't have to sit and think, oh, we've got all this information. We don't know what to do next. We can say, all right, here's where we could go. The directions that we could take this.

Well, are we talking pretty much across the board in terms of different, uh, areas of disability?

Well, are we talking pretty much across the board in terms of different, uh, areas of disability?

Yes. Yeah. So the index looks at it. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding your question here, but yes, it looks at disability in terms of all types of disability. Yeah. Rather than specific access requirements or specific disability types.

Yes. Yeah. So the index looks at it. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding your question here, but yes, it looks at disability in terms of all types of disability. Yeah. Rather than specific access requirements or specific disability types.

Because I think I had a bit of a look at some of your website. And, you know, I guess one of the things has happened a little bit more in more recent years is the, uh, the neurodiverse section of the community that's been more included as well now.

Because I think I had a bit of a look at some of your website. And, you know, I guess one of the things has happened a little bit more in more recent years is the, uh, the neurodiverse section of the community that's been more included as well now.

Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of the work that we're doing as an organisation is reflective of that. So we have some research that's being announced or released as well at the conference Around neurodivergence in that experience. So certainly that's a lens that we're taking the index because it is already encompassing of, you know, it's focusing not necessarily on specific disabilities or specific adjustments, but actually the processes and what organizations have in place. So neurodiversity and neurodivergence can fit quite nicely into that already. But that is certainly an area that we're seeing a lot of interest in from our members that we work with.

Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of the work that we're doing as an organisation is reflective of that. So we have some research that's being announced or released as well at the conference Around neurodivergence in that experience. So certainly that's a lens that we're taking the index because it is already encompassing of, you know, it's focusing not necessarily on specific disabilities or specific adjustments, but actually the processes and what organizations have in place. So neurodiversity and neurodivergence can fit quite nicely into that already. But that is certainly an area that we're seeing a lot of interest in from our members that we work with.

Alright. Well, thank you for sparing some time during this busy week. And I know also some winners have been announced, so I'm sure on many of the programs, the next weeks and months will catch up with some of the winners from the conference. Rosie, I know you're busy, so we appreciate some time. Enjoy it and thank you for being one of the stars. And thank you for being the star that spoke to us.

Alright. Well, thank you for sparing some time during this busy week. And I know also some winners have been announced, so I'm sure on many of the programs, the next weeks and months will catch up with some of the winners from the conference. Rosie, I know you're busy, so we appreciate some time. Enjoy it and thank you for being one of the stars. And thank you for being the star that spoke to us.

Not a problem any time. Thank you so much, Peter.

Not a problem any time. Thank you so much, Peter.

That's Rosie Rosie Lane there from Australian Disability Network giving us a bit of a snapshot of um, impact 25, their conference on this week. And in all seriousness, great advice to give us some time during this very busy week.

That's Rosie Rosie Lane there from Australian Disability Network giving us a bit of a snapshot of um, impact 25, their conference on this week. And in all seriousness, great advice to give us some time during this very busy week.