With this year's 2030 Insight Life conference recently concluding in Kathmandu, I had the great pleasure of speaking with two of the attendees, Jonathan Craig and Brandon Ah Tong. Now, Jonathan Craig is a voice you may have heard a couple of times on Talking Vision. He's the policy and advocacy manager at vision 2020 Australia. But this is my first time chatting with Brandon for very, very long time listeners. You may have heard him back in the day chatting with Stephen Jolly, but these days he is the equivalent of sorts to Jonathan working at Fred Hollows. There's also been quite a few developments of late, which I was very excited to chat to Brandon and Jonathan about, such as the conferences build up to a planned global health summit, and that's ongoing. But we also saw Brandon sworn in as the Western Pacific Chair of Iapb. So without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Jonathan Craig and Brandon Tong on this week's episode of Talking Vision. Jonathan Brandon, welcome to Talking Vision. Thank you very much for your time.

With this year's 2030 Insight Life conference recently concluding in Kathmandu, I had the great pleasure of speaking with two of the attendees, Jonathan Craig and Brandon Ah Tong. Now, Jonathan Craig is a voice you may have heard a couple of times on Talking Vision. He's the policy and advocacy manager at vision 2020 Australia. But this is my first time chatting with Brandon for very, very long time listeners. You may have heard him back in the day chatting with Stephen Jolly, but these days he is the equivalent of sorts to Jonathan working at Fred Hollows. There's also been quite a few developments of late, which I was very excited to chat to Brandon and Jonathan about, such as the conferences build up to a planned global health summit, and that's ongoing. But we also saw Brandon sworn in as the Western Pacific Chair of Iapb. So without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Jonathan Craig and Brandon Tong on this week's episode of Talking Vision. Jonathan Brandon, welcome to Talking Vision. Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you for having us.

Thank you for having us.

Great to be here, Sam.

Great to be here, Sam.

Now, Jonathan, we've spoken a couple of times before, but Brandon, you're quite new to talking vision. Let's just give you an opportunity to introduce yourself, and Jonathan will come to you afterwards for new listeners.

Now, Jonathan, we've spoken a couple of times before, but Brandon, you're quite new to talking vision. Let's just give you an opportunity to introduce yourself, and Jonathan will come to you afterwards for new listeners.

Sure. Happy to do so. Sam and I actually have been here a number of times in the past. So my name's Brandon Tong. My day job is the director of Global Policy and Advocacy with the Fred Hollows Foundation. But I do wear several hats, one of which is the regional chair for the Western Pacific, for the International Agency for the Prevention of Blindness, which is effectively the global peak body for the eye health sector. I'm also a board member of vision 2020 Australia, former employee of Vision Australia. Current member of Vision Australia and client and also member of Blind Citizens Australia. So many hats.

Sure. Happy to do so. Sam and I actually have been here a number of times in the past. So my name's Brandon Tong. My day job is the director of Global Policy and Advocacy with the Fred Hollows Foundation. But I do wear several hats, one of which is the regional chair for the Western Pacific, for the International Agency for the Prevention of Blindness, which is effectively the global peak body for the eye health sector. I'm also a board member of vision 2020 Australia, former employee of Vision Australia. Current member of Vision Australia and client and also member of Blind Citizens Australia. So many hats.

So many hats.

So many hats.

Certainly. And speaking of hats, you've got quite a few yourself, Jonathan. Perhaps not as many as Brandon, but still quite impressive in their own right.

Certainly. And speaking of hats, you've got quite a few yourself, Jonathan. Perhaps not as many as Brandon, but still quite impressive in their own right.

Yeah, I'm working on my hat collection. So, uh, I am currently policy and advocacy manager for vision 2020 Australia and former editor also of Blind Citizens News magazine from BCA.

Yeah, I'm working on my hat collection. So, uh, I am currently policy and advocacy manager for vision 2020 Australia and former editor also of Blind Citizens News magazine from BCA.

And as I understand it, Jonathan, you've been jet setting around the world recently. You've headed off to Kathmandu in Nepal for the 2030 Insight Live conference. So tell us a bit about that one and how that all went.

And as I understand it, Jonathan, you've been jet setting around the world recently. You've headed off to Kathmandu in Nepal for the 2030 Insight Live conference. So tell us a bit about that one and how that all went.

So this was my first Insight Live conference. Do you know how many you've been to, Brandon?

So this was my first Insight Live conference. Do you know how many you've been to, Brandon?

Oh, must be my 11th.

Oh, must be my 11th.

Yeah. So the two of us were coming to it from different angles. But Brandon was a big part of convincing me that I should and could go. And also, um, my CEO, Carly Iles, played a big part. And I think for me to go to a conference where 59 countries were represented. That in itself was just extraordinary. And to really think about the fact that all over the world, people are dealing with the same kind of issues and coming toward the same kind of solutions as we are here in Australia is also very helpful in that it makes us all feel less alone. And yet there are also really unique contextual problems everywhere that we go and contextual solutions as well. Um, Nepal is a very interesting country because they're really very, very committed to eHealth and to creating better treatment pathways for preventable blindness. But they have so many problems there with remoteness and trying to get services out to people and trying to educate people about what services are available. So I like to say that I was very wide eared. I was just so eager to absorb and learn about everything.

Yeah. So the two of us were coming to it from different angles. But Brandon was a big part of convincing me that I should and could go. And also, um, my CEO, Carly Iles, played a big part. And I think for me to go to a conference where 59 countries were represented. That in itself was just extraordinary. And to really think about the fact that all over the world, people are dealing with the same kind of issues and coming toward the same kind of solutions as we are here in Australia is also very helpful in that it makes us all feel less alone. And yet there are also really unique contextual problems everywhere that we go and contextual solutions as well. Um, Nepal is a very interesting country because they're really very, very committed to eHealth and to creating better treatment pathways for preventable blindness. But they have so many problems there with remoteness and trying to get services out to people and trying to educate people about what services are available. So I like to say that I was very wide eared. I was just so eager to absorb and learn about everything.

Brandon, I'm very interested to come to you now and get your thoughts on the most recent conference, but also as a veteran Insight Live conference attendee. I'm very interested to just get some details for people out there who may not be familiar with the conference and the sort of topics they cover.

Brandon, I'm very interested to come to you now and get your thoughts on the most recent conference, but also as a veteran Insight Live conference attendee. I'm very interested to just get some details for people out there who may not be familiar with the conference and the sort of topics they cover.

Sure. Happy to do that. Maybe I might find, you know, a decade or so to my first conference and come at it from that angle. So my career in policy and advocacy started here at Vision Australia actually. And the last role I had was the manager of the Public Affairs department. And then I moved to vision 2020 Australia actually, where into a predecessor role of Jonathan's in actual fact. And so it was there that I attended my first Iapb or International Agency for the Prevention of Blindness conference. At that time, they were called Council of Members meetings, and they were very much so simply there for members of Iapb to come together to look at issues affecting members in the areas, regions, countries that they're working in and to work towards what was then the broader movement of vision 2020, Right to Sight and the Who's Global Action Plan on Universal eHealth. If we skip forward to To 2020. 2020 was both a year and the culmination of that vision 2020 movement. So there was a question mark around, so what are we doing post 2020? And in the development of the new global strategy, what emerged was a strategy called 2030 in sight. And that strategy really tries to lean into three things. One, it's about elevating eHealth as a political issue in the broader Sustainable Development Goals world or SDGs. Number two, to integrate eHealth within health and beyond health. And number three, to really drive activation of eHealth, um, with different sectors such as the private sector and public private partnerships and those sorts of things. So 2030 Insight Live is a conference that's aimed at progressing that strategy. And unlike the conference of a decade ago. This conference is really about trying to bring a broader group of members and supporters together towards this broader movement. And again, 2030 is both part of the title of the strategy. But of course, it's also about the year 2030 that culminates in the end of the current SDG or Sustainable Development Goals era. So that's really the background of where 2030 Insight Live has come from. And I've seen a real shift and evolution of the conversations, the types of areas of interest that people coming to the conference are looking to lean into, learn from, and deepen their understanding around. And one of them is around the question of, are we here simply to address avoidable blindness? And I wouldn't mind coming back to that question in a second, but also the current W.H.O. strategy, which is called Integrated people centred eyecare, which comes under a broader framework around advancing and trying to achieve universal health coverage, which basically means that everybody, everywhere should have equal access to quality and affordable health services and in our case, eHealth and eyecare services. And that spectrum goes beyond avoidable blindness, but also includes vision rehabilitation, access to assistive technologies, and ensuring that people who are blind or vision impaired are fully included and participate in their communities.

Sure. Happy to do that. Maybe I might find, you know, a decade or so to my first conference and come at it from that angle. So my career in policy and advocacy started here at Vision Australia actually. And the last role I had was the manager of the Public Affairs department. And then I moved to vision 2020 Australia actually, where into a predecessor role of Jonathan's in actual fact. And so it was there that I attended my first Iapb or International Agency for the Prevention of Blindness conference. At that time, they were called Council of Members meetings, and they were very much so simply there for members of Iapb to come together to look at issues affecting members in the areas, regions, countries that they're working in and to work towards what was then the broader movement of vision 2020, Right to Sight and the Who's Global Action Plan on Universal eHealth. If we skip forward to To 2020. 2020 was both a year and the culmination of that vision 2020 movement. So there was a question mark around, so what are we doing post 2020? And in the development of the new global strategy, what emerged was a strategy called 2030 in sight. And that strategy really tries to lean into three things. One, it's about elevating eHealth as a political issue in the broader Sustainable Development Goals world or SDGs. Number two, to integrate eHealth within health and beyond health. And number three, to really drive activation of eHealth, um, with different sectors such as the private sector and public private partnerships and those sorts of things. So 2030 Insight Live is a conference that's aimed at progressing that strategy. And unlike the conference of a decade ago. This conference is really about trying to bring a broader group of members and supporters together towards this broader movement. And again, 2030 is both part of the title of the strategy. But of course, it's also about the year 2030 that culminates in the end of the current SDG or Sustainable Development Goals era. So that's really the background of where 2030 Insight Live has come from. And I've seen a real shift and evolution of the conversations, the types of areas of interest that people coming to the conference are looking to lean into, learn from, and deepen their understanding around. And one of them is around the question of, are we here simply to address avoidable blindness? And I wouldn't mind coming back to that question in a second, but also the current W.H.O. strategy, which is called Integrated people centred eyecare, which comes under a broader framework around advancing and trying to achieve universal health coverage, which basically means that everybody, everywhere should have equal access to quality and affordable health services and in our case, eHealth and eyecare services. And that spectrum goes beyond avoidable blindness, but also includes vision rehabilitation, access to assistive technologies, and ensuring that people who are blind or vision impaired are fully included and participate in their communities.

Mm. Okay. And vision rehabilitation is. And all of that is is. Yeah. The work that Vision Australia does here but you know is done by various organisations in the rest of the world.

Mm. Okay. And vision rehabilitation is. And all of that is is. Yeah. The work that Vision Australia does here but you know is done by various organisations in the rest of the world.

Jonathan, I'm really keen to, um, continue on with you and give Brandon's voice a little bit of a break because he's just given some absolutely fantastic Descriptions and insights there. But Jonathan, I'll continue on with you, especially in regards to the conferences and their work towards a planned global eHealth summit, which has been eHealth has been mentioned in there quite extensively by Brandon. But tell us a little bit about that global summit and the plans around that one.

Jonathan, I'm really keen to, um, continue on with you and give Brandon's voice a little bit of a break because he's just given some absolutely fantastic Descriptions and insights there. But Jonathan, I'll continue on with you, especially in regards to the conferences and their work towards a planned global eHealth summit, which has been eHealth has been mentioned in there quite extensively by Brandon. But tell us a little bit about that global summit and the plans around that one.

Yes. Well, this was a really important topic of the conference, really. The global eHealth summit, put very simply, is essentially a real push to get many countries, hopefully 50 countries at least, to make a real and genuine commitment to eHealth. And another example that you might have heard about on Vision Australia Radio is the Global Disability Summit that happened earlier this year. But the global eHealth summit is something that we're building up towards and strategizing towards. How can we get our countries involved? And that's where vision 2020 comes into play here, because one of our missions will be, how can we get Australia to come to the summit? Can we get Australia to make a commitment around eHealth at the global eHealth summit, when it happens in 2026 or 2027? So I think that was the pulse of the conference. And really, Brandon and I kind of have an interesting like shared opinion or shared mission that we have, if you don't mind me saying, you know, which is I think that one of the things that IPB needs to do more, which is not to be criticizing them, but we really think is valuable, is to bring more lived experience into the conversation. Now, lived experience doesn't necessarily just mean people who are blind, but it also means people who have been patients and who have benefited from eHealth services, and or people who haven't benefited when they needed eHealth services. For someone who needed a cataract surgery but wasn't able to get one. And the point that I think Brandon and I have been making is that when organizations like vision 2020, in all of their different countries, go to their governments and say, hey, you need to come to the global eHealth summit. Really, the people who are impacted by eHealth should be involved in those conversations and part of the advocacy push. Do you think that's a good starting point of what we're talking about, Brandon?

Yes. Well, this was a really important topic of the conference, really. The global eHealth summit, put very simply, is essentially a real push to get many countries, hopefully 50 countries at least, to make a real and genuine commitment to eHealth. And another example that you might have heard about on Vision Australia Radio is the Global Disability Summit that happened earlier this year. But the global eHealth summit is something that we're building up towards and strategizing towards. How can we get our countries involved? And that's where vision 2020 comes into play here, because one of our missions will be, how can we get Australia to come to the summit? Can we get Australia to make a commitment around eHealth at the global eHealth summit, when it happens in 2026 or 2027? So I think that was the pulse of the conference. And really, Brandon and I kind of have an interesting like shared opinion or shared mission that we have, if you don't mind me saying, you know, which is I think that one of the things that IPB needs to do more, which is not to be criticizing them, but we really think is valuable, is to bring more lived experience into the conversation. Now, lived experience doesn't necessarily just mean people who are blind, but it also means people who have been patients and who have benefited from eHealth services, and or people who haven't benefited when they needed eHealth services. For someone who needed a cataract surgery but wasn't able to get one. And the point that I think Brandon and I have been making is that when organizations like vision 2020, in all of their different countries, go to their governments and say, hey, you need to come to the global eHealth summit. Really, the people who are impacted by eHealth should be involved in those conversations and part of the advocacy push. Do you think that's a good starting point of what we're talking about, Brandon?

Yeah, absolutely. And you've brought one of the things that we really need to strengthen and work on within Iapb, but within the broader eHealth sector itself. And I think number one, starting with bringing those voices to conferences like this, embedding those voices into existing subcommittees and committees, developing the summit will be really important to actually bring that perspective in and to expand out the breadth and the depth of what we do at the summit and what we're trying to engage governments, first and foremost, to actually commit to. And it's been my mission in my own professional career to try and bridge the divide between what I would call sort of vision related disability and eHealth, where you've got those prevention treatment elements. And because us as people, we're not as simple as saying you're in that box or this box. We are people who engage in healthcare. We are people who engage with various types of services, whether it be orthoptics or using assistive technology or orientation and mobility. We come in and out of things all the time, and we need to make sure that the summit and what governments are signing up to actually reflect that experience and the breadth and depth of what people really need in their lives.

Yeah, absolutely. And you've brought one of the things that we really need to strengthen and work on within Iapb, but within the broader eHealth sector itself. And I think number one, starting with bringing those voices to conferences like this, embedding those voices into existing subcommittees and committees, developing the summit will be really important to actually bring that perspective in and to expand out the breadth and the depth of what we do at the summit and what we're trying to engage governments, first and foremost, to actually commit to. And it's been my mission in my own professional career to try and bridge the divide between what I would call sort of vision related disability and eHealth, where you've got those prevention treatment elements. And because us as people, we're not as simple as saying you're in that box or this box. We are people who engage in healthcare. We are people who engage with various types of services, whether it be orthoptics or using assistive technology or orientation and mobility. We come in and out of things all the time, and we need to make sure that the summit and what governments are signing up to actually reflect that experience and the breadth and depth of what people really need in their lives.

Brendan, I'd love to stay with you and have a little bit of a chat about some recent developments for you in regards to being sworn in as the Western Pacific Chair of Iapb. So I'm really keen to get your feelings around that, and also what you're really looking forward to getting stuck into. And I guess this is also a good opportunity to come back to that question you raised around preventable blindness.

Brendan, I'd love to stay with you and have a little bit of a chat about some recent developments for you in regards to being sworn in as the Western Pacific Chair of Iapb. So I'm really keen to get your feelings around that, and also what you're really looking forward to getting stuck into. And I guess this is also a good opportunity to come back to that question you raised around preventable blindness.

Sure. Let me start with I'll zoom out to global and then I'll come into the Western Pacific region. So if we look at what is the population of the world that we're talking about here. So the numbers are quite stark. So if we talk about people who have a vision impairment of some sort, whether it's been prevented or treated already, people who do wear glasses, for example, we're talking that more than 2.2 billion people globally. Of those, at least 1.1 billion people have a condition that has could have been prevented or is yet to be treated. Within that group, at least 80 million people have a condition of blindness or vision impairment that is not preventable at this point in time and need access to assistive technology, skills was development and universal access in the community. So they're the numbers in the Western Pacific region, which I have the privilege and honor. And it's a bit humbling to think about, really to represent are the members in the western rim of the Pacific Ocean, which ranges from up in Mongolia, China, Japan, Korea through Southeast Asia, you know, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam down through Australia and the Pacific, Pacific Islands, Samoa, Fiji, Tonga and all the way down to New Zealand. So 37 countries in all, and we have around about 27 members within those countries. And in terms of blindness and vision impairment, around about 90 million people have a condition who are blind or moderate to severe vision impairment. And of those around about 10 million people who are blind, that number zooms up. If you think about conditions like presbyopia, which is otherwise known as near vision impairment. Um, those numbers go up even more. Some of the conditions that are particularly prevalent in this region and Australia's in this region, of course, are uncorrected refractive error. So people who need a pair of glasses here in Australia, we kind of often take it for granted that we can get a pair of glasses. But we do know that somewhere in the vicinity of two out of three people who need a pair of glasses globally don't actually have a pair. We also know here in Australia that if you are Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander, you're three times more likely to need a pair of glasses or have vision impairment than non-Indigenous Australians. So it's an issue that, like Jonathan said earlier, pervades different countries, but people and communities within countries as well. So my role. I mean, I'm really excited by the role. I've got sort of two things in my list right now. One is advancing the global summit, and that means trying to look at engaging our members, engaging countries within this region to both number one attend the summit. Number two, commit to making tangible commitments in policy and practice and funding and regulation for those commitments, and to really kind of lean in and activate the base of the eye health sector within countries in the region. That's number one. And then number two at the moment, you know, I'm a newbie, so I'm really keen to be listening and talking to our members and understanding what's the world like for them, what's keeping them up at night, what do they need to focus on? And from an IP perspective, what can IP be do to help?

Sure. Let me start with I'll zoom out to global and then I'll come into the Western Pacific region. So if we look at what is the population of the world that we're talking about here. So the numbers are quite stark. So if we talk about people who have a vision impairment of some sort, whether it's been prevented or treated already, people who do wear glasses, for example, we're talking that more than 2.2 billion people globally. Of those, at least 1.1 billion people have a condition that has could have been prevented or is yet to be treated. Within that group, at least 80 million people have a condition of blindness or vision impairment that is not preventable at this point in time and need access to assistive technology, skills was development and universal access in the community. So they're the numbers in the Western Pacific region, which I have the privilege and honor. And it's a bit humbling to think about, really to represent are the members in the western rim of the Pacific Ocean, which ranges from up in Mongolia, China, Japan, Korea through Southeast Asia, you know, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam down through Australia and the Pacific, Pacific Islands, Samoa, Fiji, Tonga and all the way down to New Zealand. So 37 countries in all, and we have around about 27 members within those countries. And in terms of blindness and vision impairment, around about 90 million people have a condition who are blind or moderate to severe vision impairment. And of those around about 10 million people who are blind, that number zooms up. If you think about conditions like presbyopia, which is otherwise known as near vision impairment. Um, those numbers go up even more. Some of the conditions that are particularly prevalent in this region and Australia's in this region, of course, are uncorrected refractive error. So people who need a pair of glasses here in Australia, we kind of often take it for granted that we can get a pair of glasses. But we do know that somewhere in the vicinity of two out of three people who need a pair of glasses globally don't actually have a pair. We also know here in Australia that if you are Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander, you're three times more likely to need a pair of glasses or have vision impairment than non-Indigenous Australians. So it's an issue that, like Jonathan said earlier, pervades different countries, but people and communities within countries as well. So my role. I mean, I'm really excited by the role. I've got sort of two things in my list right now. One is advancing the global summit, and that means trying to look at engaging our members, engaging countries within this region to both number one attend the summit. Number two, commit to making tangible commitments in policy and practice and funding and regulation for those commitments, and to really kind of lean in and activate the base of the eye health sector within countries in the region. That's number one. And then number two at the moment, you know, I'm a newbie, so I'm really keen to be listening and talking to our members and understanding what's the world like for them, what's keeping them up at night, what do they need to focus on? And from an IP perspective, what can IP be do to help?

Speaking of newbies, I mean Jonathan's very, very new to the world of newbie.

Speaking of newbies, I mean Jonathan's very, very new to the world of newbie.

What am.

What am.

I? Yeah. In terms of his involvement with Iapb, he's just recently dived into that world. But it'd be great to just get the perspective of both of you as two people with lived experience of blindness at very different stages of engagement with Iapb. So Jonathan will come to you and get your thoughts and feelings.

I? Yeah. In terms of his involvement with Iapb, he's just recently dived into that world. But it'd be great to just get the perspective of both of you as two people with lived experience of blindness at very different stages of engagement with Iapb. So Jonathan will come to you and get your thoughts and feelings.

Yeah, so my blindness is not avoidable. I was born with what the you know, an inherited retinal disease is the technical term for it. But I came into this conference with Iapb making a real commitment to think about how they include people who are blind or vision impaired. And they came up with an actually a really brilliant idea, which is really worth highlighting, which was that they employed optometry students from Nepal as sighted guides to assist people who were attending the conference. And I think the real benefit of that was that the optometry students felt like they were getting something out of it. They felt like they were benefiting from it by being able to attend a conference that they would otherwise not have afforded to go to. And so it was there was this equitable relationship that I had where I was getting something I could go, where I wanted to go when I wanted to go there. But the student was also getting something. I'm seeing IPB at a bit of an inflection point, where they are starting to think a little bit more about rehabilitation, as is the technical term, and about what happens when people have gone blind. I initially went thinking, oh, I don't know anything about this, and there's nothing I could possibly contribute. You know, I'm just going to sit and listen. But then I think there is something great that we do in Australia and in some parts of the world that I think is really important, which is increasingly through things like vision 2020, the eye health sector is being connected to each other. So as you said, Brandon before, we're connecting in optometry and ophthalmology to assistive technology, to occupational therapy, to orientation and mobility. We're not having these things separated with an impenetrable wall between them. And I think that's the thing that might change over time. IPB.

Yeah, so my blindness is not avoidable. I was born with what the you know, an inherited retinal disease is the technical term for it. But I came into this conference with Iapb making a real commitment to think about how they include people who are blind or vision impaired. And they came up with an actually a really brilliant idea, which is really worth highlighting, which was that they employed optometry students from Nepal as sighted guides to assist people who were attending the conference. And I think the real benefit of that was that the optometry students felt like they were getting something out of it. They felt like they were benefiting from it by being able to attend a conference that they would otherwise not have afforded to go to. And so it was there was this equitable relationship that I had where I was getting something I could go, where I wanted to go when I wanted to go there. But the student was also getting something. I'm seeing IPB at a bit of an inflection point, where they are starting to think a little bit more about rehabilitation, as is the technical term, and about what happens when people have gone blind. I initially went thinking, oh, I don't know anything about this, and there's nothing I could possibly contribute. You know, I'm just going to sit and listen. But then I think there is something great that we do in Australia and in some parts of the world that I think is really important, which is increasingly through things like vision 2020, the eye health sector is being connected to each other. So as you said, Brandon before, we're connecting in optometry and ophthalmology to assistive technology, to occupational therapy, to orientation and mobility. We're not having these things separated with an impenetrable wall between them. And I think that's the thing that might change over time. IPB.

It's funny, Jonathan, you may have thought you were coming on a holiday, but we put you to work pretty hard. And interestingly, one of the things that does happen at these conferences where there's a formal conference component, but because we're trying to make use of people coming together from all over the world, like you said, 59 countries, we have other work group meetings the day before, but there was also other global summit meetings, and poor Jonathan was roped into all of the above. So we put him to work pretty hard.

It's funny, Jonathan, you may have thought you were coming on a holiday, but we put you to work pretty hard. And interestingly, one of the things that does happen at these conferences where there's a formal conference component, but because we're trying to make use of people coming together from all over the world, like you said, 59 countries, we have other work group meetings the day before, but there was also other global summit meetings, and poor Jonathan was roped into all of the above. So we put him to work pretty hard.

Oh, fantastic. Okay. Well, I might get some final thoughts from you both. So Jonathan will come to you. And what do you look forward to in the future of Iapb and the work you're also doing elsewhere in the various hats you're wearing at the moment?

Oh, fantastic. Okay. Well, I might get some final thoughts from you both. So Jonathan will come to you. And what do you look forward to in the future of Iapb and the work you're also doing elsewhere in the various hats you're wearing at the moment?

Yeah. I really think that this was my first and won't be my last insight live. I think that it was a great group of people that I got talking to, and honestly, it made me feel happy that there are people all over the world trying to work through the same problems, and I'm looking forward to using that collective global wisdom more in my own work.

Yeah. I really think that this was my first and won't be my last insight live. I think that it was a great group of people that I got talking to, and honestly, it made me feel happy that there are people all over the world trying to work through the same problems, and I'm looking forward to using that collective global wisdom more in my own work.

Okay. And Brandon, just come to you for a final wrap.

Okay. And Brandon, just come to you for a final wrap.

Sure. Just before I do that, I did want to say that one of the things that was terrific and it was really amazing to have Jonathan part of it there was the launch of a disability inclusion work group as part of the official Iapb work groups, and that group will be really looking about how do we infuse disability inclusion throughout the work of the Iapb. And Jonathan was part of that conversation and has some actions to take forward. So I think that's a a really great sign for me having Jonathan come to the conference. I'm often one of maybe 1 or 2 people who who are blind at the conference, and we need more people who are blind coming to the conference and sharing their stories 100%. So going forward, I mean, I the big the big ticket really moving forward is to make the Global Summit on eHealth live and create the movement for change that goes way beyond an event that we need to have both various political campaigns that build up to and bring governments to the table. There will be the summit itself, but it goes way beyond that. We'll have an accountability framework. So what I would like your listeners to think about is how might you get involved in talking to local members or even talking to vision 2020 Australia, or even coming to Vision Australia and asking, you know, what are you doing around supporting the global summit? Because we've got actions that need to happen here, here, here at home in Australia. And this is a platform where we can both create change here in Australia and then take that learning, take those commitments to be part of that global movement.

Sure. Just before I do that, I did want to say that one of the things that was terrific and it was really amazing to have Jonathan part of it there was the launch of a disability inclusion work group as part of the official Iapb work groups, and that group will be really looking about how do we infuse disability inclusion throughout the work of the Iapb. And Jonathan was part of that conversation and has some actions to take forward. So I think that's a a really great sign for me having Jonathan come to the conference. I'm often one of maybe 1 or 2 people who who are blind at the conference, and we need more people who are blind coming to the conference and sharing their stories 100%. So going forward, I mean, I the big the big ticket really moving forward is to make the Global Summit on eHealth live and create the movement for change that goes way beyond an event that we need to have both various political campaigns that build up to and bring governments to the table. There will be the summit itself, but it goes way beyond that. We'll have an accountability framework. So what I would like your listeners to think about is how might you get involved in talking to local members or even talking to vision 2020 Australia, or even coming to Vision Australia and asking, you know, what are you doing around supporting the global summit? Because we've got actions that need to happen here, here, here at home in Australia. And this is a platform where we can both create change here in Australia and then take that learning, take those commitments to be part of that global movement.

Well, on that note, I think we might wrap up there. I've been speaking today with Brandon Hartung and Jonathan Craig about, well, what haven't we talked about today? The 2030 Insight conference, which recently wrapped up in Kathmandu and Nepal, the plans around the Global Eye Health Summit, Brandon being sworn in as the Western Pacific chair of Iapb. And Jonathan and Brandon's thoughts about being involved with Iapb at different stages of their engagement with the organization. So we're very keen to keep tabs on both of those stories and have you back on the program in the coming months and years. So thank you very much to you both for making some time to chat with me today. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Well, on that note, I think we might wrap up there. I've been speaking today with Brandon Hartung and Jonathan Craig about, well, what haven't we talked about today? The 2030 Insight conference, which recently wrapped up in Kathmandu and Nepal, the plans around the Global Eye Health Summit, Brandon being sworn in as the Western Pacific chair of Iapb. And Jonathan and Brandon's thoughts about being involved with Iapb at different stages of their engagement with the organization. So we're very keen to keep tabs on both of those stories and have you back on the program in the coming months and years. So thank you very much to you both for making some time to chat with me today. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'd love to and looking forward to another chat.

I'd love to and looking forward to another chat.