Inside sources, inside sources, America's Voice of reason Boyd Matheson on Utah's home for elevated conversation. Inside sources on KSL news radio,

Inside sources, inside sources, America's Voice of reason Boyd Matheson on Utah's home for elevated conversation. Inside sources on KSL news radio,

nationwide birth rates are falling below replacement population levels including here in the state of Utah. People report the reason for not wanting Children is due to cost or simply a greater desire to pursue other interests rather than parenting. But is that the whole story? What's really beyond the headline there? Let's begin

nationwide birth rates are falling below replacement population levels including here in the state of Utah. People report the reason for not wanting Children is due to cost or simply a greater desire to pursue other interests rather than parenting. But is that the whole story? What's really beyond the headline there? Let's begin

think, you know the news of the day, think again with Boyd Matheson on KSL News Radio, we want to get past just the headlines of falling population levels, falling birth rates. And that of course, where we turn to Tim Kearney, senior political columnist at the Washington examiner, senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and Tim Welcome back to the show.

think, you know the news of the day, think again with Boyd Matheson on KSL News Radio, we want to get past just the headlines of falling population levels, falling birth rates. And that of course, where we turn to Tim Kearney, senior political columnist at the Washington examiner, senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and Tim Welcome back to the show.

Great to be here. Thanks for having me back. Uh So as you've been looking at this, even uh right, specifically here in the State of Utah, uh kind of that top line uh headline is always uh you know, it's too expensive. Health care is too much uh cost of educating a child or raising a child is too high uh but as you look at it, what's underneath the surface of just that easy answer of it just costs too much.

Great to be here. Thanks for having me back. Uh So as you've been looking at this, even uh right, specifically here in the State of Utah, uh kind of that top line uh headline is always uh you know, it's too expensive. Health care is too much uh cost of educating a child or raising a child is too high uh but as you look at it, what's underneath the surface of just that easy answer of it just costs too much.

Well, so millennials actually are just as wealthy as my generation, your generation gen X at their age and probably wealthier than baby boomers were and yet having fewer kids. And then you look at the fact that the, you know, the current baby bust where births have been falling every year for 15 years that started in the recession, but Americans were still having more babies per person

Well, so millennials actually are just as wealthy as my generation, your generation gen X at their age and probably wealthier than baby boomers were and yet having fewer kids. And then you look at the fact that the, you know, the current baby bust where births have been falling every year for 15 years that started in the recession, but Americans were still having more babies per person

in the recession than they were, you know, in the, in the run up to COVID that immense birth rate fall during the best economic boom time. So the economic account doesn't quite have that much explanatory power. But the couple of things that matter, I think the most one is opportunity cost that, you know, women have more ability to make money and go to school

in the recession than they were, you know, in the, in the run up to COVID that immense birth rate fall during the best economic boom time. So the economic account doesn't quite have that much explanatory power. But the couple of things that matter, I think the most one is opportunity cost that, you know, women have more ability to make money and go to school

now than they did 40 years ago. But again, that doesn't quite explain why it's changed so much over 15 years. And I think the biggest explanation is going to have to do with culture A that our culture is not as family friendly as it used to be. And b religiosity, the number one determinant of whether people get married and have kids or have more than just two

now than they did 40 years ago. But again, that doesn't quite explain why it's changed so much over 15 years. And I think the biggest explanation is going to have to do with culture A that our culture is not as family friendly as it used to be. And b religiosity, the number one determinant of whether people get married and have kids or have more than just two

across the world is religion, whether it's, you know, Catholic L Ds Jewish religiosity. Religious attendance is one of the biggest predictors of birth rate. And so the fact that our religious attendance is falling again among atheists, none of the above or Christian or Jewish. Well, that is,

across the world is religion, whether it's, you know, Catholic L Ds Jewish religiosity. Religious attendance is one of the biggest predictors of birth rate. And so the fact that our religious attendance is falling again among atheists, none of the above or Christian or Jewish. Well, that is,

is a big reason why we're having fewer babies. Uh So I wanna dig into both of those and uh I want to start, uh you had a great piece in deseret dot com uh talking about your interaction with uh a young couple. Uh and, and why not more kids? Uh And again, the, the the easy answer was the dollars and senses, but underneath was a little different story, describe that for us.

is a big reason why we're having fewer babies. Uh So I wanna dig into both of those and uh I want to start, uh you had a great piece in deseret dot com uh talking about your interaction with uh a young couple. Uh and, and why not more kids? Uh And again, the, the the easy answer was the dollars and senses, but underneath was a little different story, describe that for us.

So, yeah, I went walking around the avenues. I've been told like a really nice neighborhood. The houses are close together but they're good size family houses. Um And I was just shocked, I walked around for hours looking for families to talk to

So, yeah, I went walking around the avenues. I've been told like a really nice neighborhood. The houses are close together but they're good size family houses. Um And I was just shocked, I walked around for hours looking for families to talk to

and they just weren't there. And finally I ran into a couple Isaac and Nicole and I said, hey, I'm writing about family and I, you know, the birth rate in Utah is falling. It's not number one state anymore as far as babies per person. Um What do you guys think about family? And they said, oh, well, we don't want to have kids basically ever. And at first they said, well, it's because of the cough and Isaac kind of

and they just weren't there. And finally I ran into a couple Isaac and Nicole and I said, hey, I'm writing about family and I, you know, the birth rate in Utah is falling. It's not number one state anymore as far as babies per person. Um What do you guys think about family? And they said, oh, well, we don't want to have kids basically ever. And at first they said, well, it's because of the cough and Isaac kind of

interrupted himself and said, if I'm gonna be honest, I'm just selfish.

interrupted himself and said, if I'm gonna be honest, I'm just selfish.

And then he said a line that I'll never forget and he said no offense because I told him that I have kids no offense. But Nicole and I joke that while other people are watching Teletubbies and cleaning up vomit, we will be drinking margaritas and carrots.

And then he said a line that I'll never forget and he said no offense because I told him that I have kids no offense. But Nicole and I joke that while other people are watching Teletubbies and cleaning up vomit, we will be drinking margaritas and carrots.

So it is that,

So it is that,

that cultural component uh is such a, a an interesting thing in terms of that pursuit, what the other you describe as that opportunity cost, what other, what people can do other than uh raise Children? Uh Dick enforce a little bit on the, on the religiosity side of all of that. And what does that mean? What does that tell us both in terms of where we are from as a faith community, all kinds of faith communities uh and what that means moving forward.

that cultural component uh is such a, a an interesting thing in terms of that pursuit, what the other you describe as that opportunity cost, what other, what people can do other than uh raise Children? Uh Dick enforce a little bit on the, on the religiosity side of all of that. And what does that mean? What does that tell us both in terms of where we are from as a faith community, all kinds of faith communities uh and what that means moving forward.

So I think I, I've looked at a lot of the social science data and I've reported from modern orthodox Jewish neighborhoods from Israel, from Catholic communities, from L DS communities in Utah and Idaho. And I think an important thing to realize is that

So I think I, I've looked at a lot of the social science data and I've reported from modern orthodox Jewish neighborhoods from Israel, from Catholic communities, from L DS communities in Utah and Idaho. And I think an important thing to realize is that

and no offense to any pastors or preachers out there, but it's not the homily that are convincing people to have kids. It's not just the fact that God's first commandment in Genesis is be fruitful and multiply. I think there's a lot of other factors that go into it and some of it is what you call anthropology. What is your view of the human person? Do you think that people are good?

and no offense to any pastors or preachers out there, but it's not the homily that are convincing people to have kids. It's not just the fact that God's first commandment in Genesis is be fruitful and multiply. I think there's a lot of other factors that go into it and some of it is what you call anthropology. What is your view of the human person? Do you think that people are good?

Um But then some of it is going to be. What is your, um, how important do you think marriage is? That's an absolute, uh, connection statistically between, um, people who are married and see it as a lifelong commitment and they're more likely to have kids obviously and to have more kids. Another part of it, uh, though I just think is,

Um But then some of it is going to be. What is your, um, how important do you think marriage is? That's an absolute, uh, connection statistically between, um, people who are married and see it as a lifelong commitment and they're more likely to have kids obviously and to have more kids. Another part of it, uh, though I just think is,

do you think that sacrifice, sacrifice for others is part of a good life or do you think it's just an unfortunate thing that you sometimes have to do as a Catholic? I really believe that, you know, the, the good life, happiness uh fulfilling my purpose on this world involves laying down my life for friends. And guess what?

do you think that sacrifice, sacrifice for others is part of a good life or do you think it's just an unfortunate thing that you sometimes have to do as a Catholic? I really believe that, you know, the, the good life, happiness uh fulfilling my purpose on this world involves laying down my life for friends. And guess what?

I, I, you get a lot of those friends for whom it's easier to lay down your life once you get married and have kids. And then though they go to the cultural point that we can talk about this next religious communities, set up cultural infrastructure that makes it easier to raise kids and that allows people even outside of your religion to

I, I, you get a lot of those friends for whom it's easier to lay down your life once you get married and have kids. And then though they go to the cultural point that we can talk about this next religious communities, set up cultural infrastructure that makes it easier to raise kids and that allows people even outside of your religion to

have kids more easily. So, in there I talk about Utah and I also talk about Israel where it just, they try to make it easier for parents and easier for kids as well. That's such an important part of it. I've been noodling over the weekend and then conversation with some friends

have kids more easily. So, in there I talk about Utah and I also talk about Israel where it just, they try to make it easier for parents and easier for kids as well. That's such an important part of it. I've been noodling over the weekend and then conversation with some friends

uh about the fact that we've kind of lost this, this support structure. As you mentioned about family, this connective tissue. Uh One of my friends mentioned the fact that, uh you know, a daughter had just had a baby. Normally, you know, you would be asking your mom or your sister of, you know, how do I care for this little thing and do that? But, but now we just Google it or, you know, pull up a youtube video. Uh And so even that, even that natural structure, uh seems to be withering a little bit and that has to be impacting, uh the overall, the overall issue.

uh about the fact that we've kind of lost this, this support structure. As you mentioned about family, this connective tissue. Uh One of my friends mentioned the fact that, uh you know, a daughter had just had a baby. Normally, you know, you would be asking your mom or your sister of, you know, how do I care for this little thing and do that? But, but now we just Google it or, you know, pull up a youtube video. Uh And so even that, even that natural structure, uh seems to be withering a little bit and that has to be impacting, uh the overall, the overall issue.

It is absolutely it. Um,

It is absolutely it. Um,

you and I have said this, I think every time we've spoken, but a wise woman once said it takes a village to raise a child, whatever Hillary Clinton meant when she said that we all know that's true. We all know that you need that sort of support. And, um, actually, one of the studies I found showed that proximity to the baby's grandma predicts whether or not the baby is gonna get a younger sibling. And you know exactly what that means that if you have support from,

you and I have said this, I think every time we've spoken, but a wise woman once said it takes a village to raise a child, whatever Hillary Clinton meant when she said that we all know that's true. We all know that you need that sort of support. And, um, actually, one of the studies I found showed that proximity to the baby's grandma predicts whether or not the baby is gonna get a younger sibling. And you know exactly what that means that if you have support from,

you know, somebody who you don't have to pay somebody, you don't feel bad, somebody who you think might actually be benefiting from caring for that baby and someone who can teach you not just take the baby off your hands, but give you some instruction.

you know, somebody who you don't have to pay somebody, you don't feel bad, somebody who you think might actually be benefiting from caring for that baby and someone who can teach you not just take the baby off your hands, but give you some instruction.

And that, that really helps until Israel, the wealthy country is by far the highest birth rate about three babies per woman compared to 1.5 in Europe, 1.61 0.7 in the US. Women, there are twice as likely as they are in Europe to have

And that, that really helps until Israel, the wealthy country is by far the highest birth rate about three babies per woman compared to 1.5 in Europe, 1.61 0.7 in the US. Women, there are twice as likely as they are in Europe to have

their, their mother, their own mother within a 10 minute drive. So, yeah, they're about twice as likely to have babies too. Wow, that is fascinating. And just before I let you go, I want to stick in one last piece as we look at that pro family culture.

their, their mother, their own mother within a 10 minute drive. So, yeah, they're about twice as likely to have babies too. Wow, that is fascinating. And just before I let you go, I want to stick in one last piece as we look at that pro family culture.

Uh You, you close out your piece saying, hey, just making it affordable uh doesn't eliminate selfishness. Uh But how do we help create that culture foster that space where sacrifice and happiness, not the pursuit of happiness, like we like to throw it around. But the way I think Jefferson met it that uh that happiness comes from discipline, virtue and service. Uh How do we recreate that model?

Uh You, you close out your piece saying, hey, just making it affordable uh doesn't eliminate selfishness. Uh But how do we help create that culture foster that space where sacrifice and happiness, not the pursuit of happiness, like we like to throw it around. But the way I think Jefferson met it that uh that happiness comes from discipline, virtue and service. Uh How do we recreate that model?

See, I don't think you can do that with any uh

See, I don't think you can do that with any uh

state laws or subsidies or anything like that. I don't oppose a child tax credit. I benefit from one my wife and I, but I ultimately think it's cultural and it's going to start with your world view and, but that it can also trickle out beyond that, a culture that sets the norm that you lay down your life,

state laws or subsidies or anything like that. I don't oppose a child tax credit. I benefit from one my wife and I, but I ultimately think it's cultural and it's going to start with your world view and, but that it can also trickle out beyond that, a culture that sets the norm that you lay down your life,

others. And that, that's the path to happiness that's gonna ripple out into the, the broader culture, even the people who don't have the same uh that you do. Yeah, so important, Tim Carney, senior political columnist at the Washington Examiner, senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. And uh yes, it does take a village uh but the village is not the government and this is one more area where community and culture have to lead and I think the politicians will actually follow in the end. Uh Tim, thanks so much for joining us today.

others. And that, that's the path to happiness that's gonna ripple out into the, the broader culture, even the people who don't have the same uh that you do. Yeah, so important, Tim Carney, senior political columnist at the Washington Examiner, senior Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. And uh yes, it does take a village uh but the village is not the government and this is one more area where community and culture have to lead and I think the politicians will actually follow in the end. Uh Tim, thanks so much for joining us today.

Thank you. All right, that's Tim Carney. Uh And again, I think this is so critical as you, as you look at population, you look at all the things that get stressed as population declines, especially as you look at things like social security, uh Medicare and so on, all of those things that require funding.

Thank you. All right, that's Tim Carney. Uh And again, I think this is so critical as you, as you look at population, you look at all the things that get stressed as population declines, especially as you look at things like social security, uh Medicare and so on, all of those things that require funding.

Uh That's an interesting part of the conversation. But to me, it really gets to this whole idea, you know, the declaration of independence was really a list of grievances and, and in the middle, there's this line of the pursuit of happiness. Uh and that pursuit of happiness as Jefferson put it uh was about virtue, discipline and service. Uh That's the key and that's the core of the soul of the nation. And if we forget that uh we're gonna forget a whole lot of other things in the process. We'll step aside for a quick break. We'll be right back.

Uh That's an interesting part of the conversation. But to me, it really gets to this whole idea, you know, the declaration of independence was really a list of grievances and, and in the middle, there's this line of the pursuit of happiness. Uh and that pursuit of happiness as Jefferson put it uh was about virtue, discipline and service. Uh That's the key and that's the core of the soul of the nation. And if we forget that uh we're gonna forget a whole lot of other things in the process. We'll step aside for a quick break. We'll be right back.

Think again on inside sources with Boyd Matheson.

Think again on inside sources with Boyd Matheson.