We're the first people to discover things about the human brain, neuroscientists or magicians. How do magicians steer your attention? Why can't you see what they're doing when they do something right in front of you? And how can someone appear to read your mind? Welcome to Inner Cosmos with me David Eagleman. I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford and in these episodes, we sail deeply into our three pound universe to understand why and how our lives look the way they do. Today's episode dives deep into the world of magic tricks. Why do magic tricks work? I'm not talking about the mechanics of how a card trick, or how a magician saws a box in half and it's actually two ladies and two boxes, or how a magician pulls off a trick with mirrors. I'm not talking about that. I want to talk about the way the human brain works and how that opens the door to us getting fooled. And so I'm going to start with an assertion if brains worked in a totally different way, presumably we would have different sorts of magic tricks. Other things would work for us. So, for example, if we ever discover life on other planets, we might find that the aliens visual systems or attentional systems work differently, and therefore an alien magician stands on stage in front of its alien audience and does things that would seem patently obvious to us, and all the aliens would put their green hands over their mouths and gasp, wow, how did she do that? In other words, if they have some sort of flaw in their understanding of the reality of the world out there, then their magicians could take advantage of that and they would be flummixed. So in today's episode, we're gonna take the opposite view. We're going to pretend we're the aliens looking at the humans, and we'll get to see the flaws in the human brain that way that cause us to misperceive reality, which gives rise to a class of people known as magicians, who exploit these neural deficits, either for profit or entertainment. And what's fascinating is that even though we've figured out a lot about the brain, there's a sense in which neuroscientists are always playing catch up to those people who have mastered the art of perception. This can be the stage magician or the mentalist, or the person running a seance, or the guy run the shell game on a street corner, or the professional pickpocket. These people have mastered manipulation through a lot of trial and error. And now we're at a fascinating point where there's a collaboration going on between these two fields, where neuroscientists try to figure out the science of what magicians already figured out works. In other words, neuroscience is following the scent trails of the magicians to figure out what makes these tricks and sleight of hand and illusions full our neural networks. Now, if you've been listening to this podcast, you'll know that the brain lives in silence and darkness, and it's always trying to construct an internal model of the outside world. The critical point for today is that there is not a perfect mapping from the outside to the inside. In other words, it's not as though something happens in the outside world and we have a perfect record of that on the inside. Instead, if something happens outside the spotlight of where you're paying attention, you just don't see it at all. But the brain's job is to put together a story of what the heck is happening in the world out there, and so it will do so even if it has missed that event, even if its story is totally wrong. Its job is to narrate what is going on in the world given its best understanding. So that means if you don't see some sleight of hand, your brain will nonetheless cook up a story like the coin must have disappeared into thin air and then it later appeared in my pocket. Now let's say those aliens don't have an attentional spotlight like we do, so they can see everything happening in the scene. They would be totally amused that you fell for that. To them, you're like a dog falling for a simple trick, like when you pretend to throw a ball and you hide it behind your back and the dog gets fooled. So today we're going to explore the science behind the magic, and we're going to get there with the help of two interviews. First, we're going to talk with a magician and then with two neuroscientists who study why magic works. So first I called up my friend Robert Strong, a professional magician, and asked him about his experience with manipulating attention. So Robert tell us about what magicians need to understand about the brain in order to do what you do.

We're the first people to discover things about the human brain, neuroscientists or magicians. How do magicians steer your attention? Why can't you see what they're doing when they do something right in front of you? And how can someone appear to read your mind? Welcome to Inner Cosmos with me David Eagleman. I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford and in these episodes, we sail deeply into our three pound universe to understand why and how our lives look the way they do. Today's episode dives deep into the world of magic tricks. Why do magic tricks work? I'm not talking about the mechanics of how a card trick, or how a magician saws a box in half and it's actually two ladies and two boxes, or how a magician pulls off a trick with mirrors. I'm not talking about that. I want to talk about the way the human brain works and how that opens the door to us getting fooled. And so I'm going to start with an assertion if brains worked in a totally different way, presumably we would have different sorts of magic tricks. Other things would work for us. So, for example, if we ever discover life on other planets, we might find that the aliens visual systems or attentional systems work differently, and therefore an alien magician stands on stage in front of its alien audience and does things that would seem patently obvious to us, and all the aliens would put their green hands over their mouths and gasp, wow, how did she do that? In other words, if they have some sort of flaw in their understanding of the reality of the world out there, then their magicians could take advantage of that and they would be flummixed. So in today's episode, we're gonna take the opposite view. We're going to pretend we're the aliens looking at the humans, and we'll get to see the flaws in the human brain that way that cause us to misperceive reality, which gives rise to a class of people known as magicians, who exploit these neural deficits, either for profit or entertainment. And what's fascinating is that even though we've figured out a lot about the brain, there's a sense in which neuroscientists are always playing catch up to those people who have mastered the art of perception. This can be the stage magician or the mentalist, or the person running a seance, or the guy run the shell game on a street corner, or the professional pickpocket. These people have mastered manipulation through a lot of trial and error. And now we're at a fascinating point where there's a collaboration going on between these two fields, where neuroscientists try to figure out the science of what magicians already figured out works. In other words, neuroscience is following the scent trails of the magicians to figure out what makes these tricks and sleight of hand and illusions full our neural networks. Now, if you've been listening to this podcast, you'll know that the brain lives in silence and darkness, and it's always trying to construct an internal model of the outside world. The critical point for today is that there is not a perfect mapping from the outside to the inside. In other words, it's not as though something happens in the outside world and we have a perfect record of that on the inside. Instead, if something happens outside the spotlight of where you're paying attention, you just don't see it at all. But the brain's job is to put together a story of what the heck is happening in the world out there, and so it will do so even if it has missed that event, even if its story is totally wrong. Its job is to narrate what is going on in the world given its best understanding. So that means if you don't see some sleight of hand, your brain will nonetheless cook up a story like the coin must have disappeared into thin air and then it later appeared in my pocket. Now let's say those aliens don't have an attentional spotlight like we do, so they can see everything happening in the scene. They would be totally amused that you fell for that. To them, you're like a dog falling for a simple trick, like when you pretend to throw a ball and you hide it behind your back and the dog gets fooled. So today we're going to explore the science behind the magic, and we're going to get there with the help of two interviews. First, we're going to talk with a magician and then with two neuroscientists who study why magic works. So first I called up my friend Robert Strong, a professional magician, and asked him about his experience with manipulating attention. So Robert tell us about what magicians need to understand about the brain in order to do what you do.

So magicians have spent five thousand years abe testing tricks on humans to find the moments where the attention, where the gaze is upon you, but the attention is not on you, so that the eyes may see them, but the brain doesn't record it. And what we do is we pay really close attention to people for those moments where the attention is somewhere else. And sometimes it happens naturally, but mostly we manufacture it where the attention is internal.

So magicians have spent five thousand years abe testing tricks on humans to find the moments where the attention, where the gaze is upon you, but the attention is not on you, so that the eyes may see them, but the brain doesn't record it. And what we do is we pay really close attention to people for those moments where the attention is somewhere else. And sometimes it happens naturally, but mostly we manufacture it where the attention is internal.

What's an example of how you would manufacture where someone's attention is.

What's an example of how you would manufacture where someone's attention is.

So the three that I use the most. The first is where I'm interested, is where they're interested. So I show no interest in the method or the secret, but I bring all my folks and attention and my gaze to where the secret isn't that's the classical misdirection.

So the three that I use the most. The first is where I'm interested, is where they're interested. So I show no interest in the method or the secret, but I bring all my folks and attention and my gaze to where the secret isn't that's the classical misdirection.

So can you unpack that with an example?

So can you unpack that with an example?

So if I were to hold up a dollar bill and I bring my attention and focus to the dollar bill, that's where I want them to be. But if I want to sneak something into the dollar bill, if I'm going to fold a bill around like a coin or something to make a prop that I'm going to use later. What I'll do is I'll show it intron in the subject. So where are you from? Have you ever done a magic trick before? Is this your first time being magical? And so I take my focus intention interest over there. The other thing I could do is I might have a red herring for this. I need a pen or pencil. Do you have one? Let's look. While they're looking, I'm putting the coin in the door, right in.

So if I were to hold up a dollar bill and I bring my attention and focus to the dollar bill, that's where I want them to be. But if I want to sneak something into the dollar bill, if I'm going to fold a bill around like a coin or something to make a prop that I'm going to use later. What I'll do is I'll show it intron in the subject. So where are you from? Have you ever done a magic trick before? Is this your first time being magical? And so I take my focus intention interest over there. The other thing I could do is I might have a red herring for this. I need a pen or pencil. Do you have one? Let's look. While they're looking, I'm putting the coin in the door, right in.

Front of them.

Front of them.

Their eyes could record it, but it just doesn't no pen, That's okay. I'll use the bill as a magic wand so it's a red herring.

Their eyes could record it, but it just doesn't no pen, That's okay. I'll use the bill as a magic wand so it's a red herring.

And did you say there were three ways you do it?

And did you say there were three ways you do it?

There's probably a dozen, but there's three that I use the most. The one that I focus on probably the most is humor. Just a little joke. And when you give a little joke, they laugh for just a moment. Their gaze is on you, but they don't record what they're seeing. So if they were actually watching a video of it, they can rewind it, slow it down, and they can see me do the secret move. They didn't move, but in real time, they just don't record it, okay, And what's the third The third one that I use the most is either the trick is over or I apparently fail. So if you chose the King of Hearts and I pull out the Two of Hearts, you go, Nope, that's not it. I go, oh, that just didn't work. I dropped my shoulders, I bring my gaze and attention, like darn, that didn't work. And when they go, oh, the trick's over or he failed, then I could do the secret move right in front of them and the brain doesn't record it. I go, We'll give me one more chance, or tell me what your card is, and then their card is in a magical place like inside a box they've been holding the whole time. A lot of magicians that do really good sleide of hand do a lot of overwhelming them with cues. Can you hold that a little lower? Can you bring that a little bit closer? Can you make sure everybody can see?

There's probably a dozen, but there's three that I use the most. The one that I focus on probably the most is humor. Just a little joke. And when you give a little joke, they laugh for just a moment. Their gaze is on you, but they don't record what they're seeing. So if they were actually watching a video of it, they can rewind it, slow it down, and they can see me do the secret move. They didn't move, but in real time, they just don't record it, okay, And what's the third The third one that I use the most is either the trick is over or I apparently fail. So if you chose the King of Hearts and I pull out the Two of Hearts, you go, Nope, that's not it. I go, oh, that just didn't work. I dropped my shoulders, I bring my gaze and attention, like darn, that didn't work. And when they go, oh, the trick's over or he failed, then I could do the secret move right in front of them and the brain doesn't record it. I go, We'll give me one more chance, or tell me what your card is, and then their card is in a magical place like inside a box they've been holding the whole time. A lot of magicians that do really good sleide of hand do a lot of overwhelming them with cues. Can you hold that a little lower? Can you bring that a little bit closer? Can you make sure everybody can see?

You know?

You know?

And just giving them a set of cues one after another, they stop recording the secret move that's right in front of them because they don't want to get it wrong. So if you are an assistant on stage in front of two people or ten thousand people, and I give you a set of instructions, and I just hit you with three or four instructions, especially if number one slightly contradicts number four. All of a sudden, you're looking right at me, but you're not recording the secret move. So if I say, can you hold that a little bit lower? Can you hold a little bit closer, no closer to your body a little higher?

And just giving them a set of cues one after another, they stop recording the secret move that's right in front of them because they don't want to get it wrong. So if you are an assistant on stage in front of two people or ten thousand people, and I give you a set of instructions, and I just hit you with three or four instructions, especially if number one slightly contradicts number four. All of a sudden, you're looking right at me, but you're not recording the secret move. So if I say, can you hold that a little bit lower? Can you hold a little bit closer, no closer to your body a little higher?

Please?

Please?

And now they're thinking that was he said lower to a Hi. I don't want to get that wrong, And they're trying to split the difference. They're looking right at you, but the brain doesn't record a secret move that happens right in front of them. Another great one is what you do use is called bottom up. Something that just comes from nowhere. So a piece of flash paper, a flash of light, a sound on a sudden movement, an assistant comes on stage, something shiny and bright that just distracts, like the cartoon squirrel. You give them something that just takes their gaze off for just a moment, and that gives you enough time to sneak an elephant to the room.

And now they're thinking that was he said lower to a Hi. I don't want to get that wrong, And they're trying to split the difference. They're looking right at you, but the brain doesn't record a secret move that happens right in front of them. Another great one is what you do use is called bottom up. Something that just comes from nowhere. So a piece of flash paper, a flash of light, a sound on a sudden movement, an assistant comes on stage, something shiny and bright that just distracts, like the cartoon squirrel. You give them something that just takes their gaze off for just a moment, and that gives you enough time to sneak an elephant to the room.

Oh excellent. Yeah. In neuroscience we talk about exogenous and endogenous attention, meaning you know, exogerous attention is something happens the snap, debang, the flash, and it causes you to look. It grabs your attention over there, whereas endogenous attention is where I'm choosing to put my attention or where I think I'm choosing to put it. And that's all the first things you mentioned. We're taking people's in dodgenous attention, but the sudden effect is what grabs their attention. Then you can do lots of things right under their nose.

Oh excellent. Yeah. In neuroscience we talk about exogenous and endogenous attention, meaning you know, exogerous attention is something happens the snap, debang, the flash, and it causes you to look. It grabs your attention over there, whereas endogenous attention is where I'm choosing to put my attention or where I think I'm choosing to put it. And that's all the first things you mentioned. We're taking people's in dodgenous attention, but the sudden effect is what grabs their attention. Then you can do lots of things right under their nose.

The terms the magicians use are bottom up top down. So if I'm holding a lighter and a piece of flash paper. For a bottom up, I light the flash paper, it makes a big flash in the air of all the eyes and gaze goes up while they handholding the lighter dumps it into a secret pocket, brings him back to the previous position, and when the eyes come down, the letter is now apparently vanished. But for top down, I might say watch this piece of paper closely, bring your gaze in close, watch really closely, and when they're following the instructions, probably by force perspective, I can toss that piece of paper over their head. Outside of their view, all they see is the back of my hand. And when I come back down, apparently holding the paper and balling up into my other hand, the volunteer sees the ball in their mind. When I say sees that, they see their mind's eye go into the hand. And because I am directing them and keeping them really focused in my place, they're not seeing the places I don't want them to see. And then I can apparently make it vanish and had already been gone for a few seconds.

The terms the magicians use are bottom up top down. So if I'm holding a lighter and a piece of flash paper. For a bottom up, I light the flash paper, it makes a big flash in the air of all the eyes and gaze goes up while they handholding the lighter dumps it into a secret pocket, brings him back to the previous position, and when the eyes come down, the letter is now apparently vanished. But for top down, I might say watch this piece of paper closely, bring your gaze in close, watch really closely, and when they're following the instructions, probably by force perspective, I can toss that piece of paper over their head. Outside of their view, all they see is the back of my hand. And when I come back down, apparently holding the paper and balling up into my other hand, the volunteer sees the ball in their mind. When I say sees that, they see their mind's eye go into the hand. And because I am directing them and keeping them really focused in my place, they're not seeing the places I don't want them to see. And then I can apparently make it vanish and had already been gone for a few seconds.

Tell us about other types of misdirection that you exploit.

Tell us about other types of misdirection that you exploit.

One very powerful type of misdirection that I use all the time is something called time misdirection. I'm not a neuroscientist, but my understanding is that the brain has really good instant recall. So in my being out there in the field and doing magic tricks for people, if I do the secret move and then the reveal immediately after that, the brain is really good at rewinding a set or two and going, something just happened, and I know that's when the magic happened. Maybe I don't understand what the secret move was. So magicians try to create a lot of time distance between a secret move and the reveal of the magic trick where the magical moment happens. So a really good example of time as direction is a magic trick that every magician learns at the beginning of their career, and it's in every kid's book. It's forcing a playing card, giving the illusion of a free choice. So if I show I've got a deck of cards where the cards are all different, and I peek at the bottom card and I secretly know that it is the Queen of Hearts, I ask you to cut the cards into two piles. So you take the top half and place it on the table, and I take the bottom half and I criss crossed it across the top of the cards.

One very powerful type of misdirection that I use all the time is something called time misdirection. I'm not a neuroscientist, but my understanding is that the brain has really good instant recall. So in my being out there in the field and doing magic tricks for people, if I do the secret move and then the reveal immediately after that, the brain is really good at rewinding a set or two and going, something just happened, and I know that's when the magic happened. Maybe I don't understand what the secret move was. So magicians try to create a lot of time distance between a secret move and the reveal of the magic trick where the magical moment happens. So a really good example of time as direction is a magic trick that every magician learns at the beginning of their career, and it's in every kid's book. It's forcing a playing card, giving the illusion of a free choice. So if I show I've got a deck of cards where the cards are all different, and I peek at the bottom card and I secretly know that it is the Queen of Hearts, I ask you to cut the cards into two piles. So you take the top half and place it on the table, and I take the bottom half and I criss crossed it across the top of the cards.

Like, so, now I talk to you, I say you had a free choice. There's fifty two cards.

Like, so, now I talk to you, I say you had a free choice. There's fifty two cards.

It would be a small miracle if I can tell you that you cut to the Queen of Hearts before you look at the card you cut to. I just want to make sure you know that I didn't even touch the car cards. And then I go and I pick up the pile of the cards, and I show you that the card that you cut to was indeed the Queen of Hearts. It was simply the bottom card. But enough timeness direction, the audience loses track of which is the top and which is the bottom.

It would be a small miracle if I can tell you that you cut to the Queen of Hearts before you look at the card you cut to. I just want to make sure you know that I didn't even touch the car cards. And then I go and I pick up the pile of the cards, and I show you that the card that you cut to was indeed the Queen of Hearts. It was simply the bottom card. But enough timeness direction, the audience loses track of which is the top and which is the bottom.

Excellent, So tell us how you, as a magician exploit assumptions.

Excellent, So tell us how you, as a magician exploit assumptions.

That's a great question.

That's a great question.

I think everything we do as we exploit assumption is because the human brain lives in the future, is predicting what's coming next. And if we take them down that road of giving them all the supporting evidence that everything they believe to be is true is true, and then we pull back the curtain and we show them a new reveal, something that's unexpected, that's the magical moment. So we understand that people believe that if I'm holding a rubber band and I make a very specific sound like this, that the rubber band is now broken. And I gave you supporting visual evidence by giving the illusion that the rubber band's broken. But the rubber band never broke. All I did was pluck it like a musical instrument at the right time. The eyes could see that I didn't break it. But because you hear the sound, the brain goes, oh, that's super familiar. I know that sound. And then they see what looks like a broken rubber band. They jumped to the wrong conclusion for the right reasons. Oh, for the audience that's listening. Here's what I did was I took a rubber band and I put my index fingers and I'm making a long oval.

I think everything we do as we exploit assumption is because the human brain lives in the future, is predicting what's coming next. And if we take them down that road of giving them all the supporting evidence that everything they believe to be is true is true, and then we pull back the curtain and we show them a new reveal, something that's unexpected, that's the magical moment. So we understand that people believe that if I'm holding a rubber band and I make a very specific sound like this, that the rubber band is now broken. And I gave you supporting visual evidence by giving the illusion that the rubber band's broken. But the rubber band never broke. All I did was pluck it like a musical instrument at the right time. The eyes could see that I didn't break it. But because you hear the sound, the brain goes, oh, that's super familiar. I know that sound. And then they see what looks like a broken rubber band. They jumped to the wrong conclusion for the right reasons. Oh, for the audience that's listening. Here's what I did was I took a rubber band and I put my index fingers and I'm making a long oval.

And I took that long oval, and I.

And I took that long oval, and I.

Collapsed the top band down to the bottom band to make the two lines, so it looks like a single band.

Collapsed the top band down to the bottom band to make the two lines, so it looks like a single band.

And I stretched it out and made a new circle.

And I stretched it out and made a new circle.

And now to complete the circle, I took my finger out of the oval, and now I've got this little nub here I can pluck, and it looks like a new circle or a new rubber band, but in reality, it's a stretched out rubber band. And that plucking sound completes the illusion in the brain that the rubber band is broken. And then all I have to do is open up the oval and show that it was never actually broken, or that it's magically restored.

And now to complete the circle, I took my finger out of the oval, and now I've got this little nub here I can pluck, and it looks like a new circle or a new rubber band, but in reality, it's a stretched out rubber band. And that plucking sound completes the illusion in the brain that the rubber band is broken. And then all I have to do is open up the oval and show that it was never actually broken, or that it's magically restored.

So for the audio audience, it looks like Robert breaks a rubber band. It looks like he's got a single stretch of rubber and he pulls it and you hear the sound and you think, oh, I see he has just snapped the rubber band. And then a moment later he shows you bunk. Here is the complete rubber band again. But Robert, you're saying a big part of that is the sound of seeing it and the assumption of what that translates to.

So for the audio audience, it looks like Robert breaks a rubber band. It looks like he's got a single stretch of rubber and he pulls it and you hear the sound and you think, oh, I see he has just snapped the rubber band. And then a moment later he shows you bunk. Here is the complete rubber band again. But Robert, you're saying a big part of that is the sound of seeing it and the assumption of what that translates to.

So that specifically as sound synchronization. But we do give an all magic supporting evidence of the illusion, so that way all thoughts of hey, there's something funny going on or this isn't real goes away and you believe in the reality that we're creating terrific.

So that specifically as sound synchronization. But we do give an all magic supporting evidence of the illusion, so that way all thoughts of hey, there's something funny going on or this isn't real goes away and you believe in the reality that we're creating terrific.

Yeah, all of us, of course live in our own head. We've got our internal models running. We interpret reality, and your job as a magician is simply to navigate what we think is the reality going on. I know you think about forced perspectives like this to tell us about that.

Yeah, all of us, of course live in our own head. We've got our internal models running. We interpret reality, and your job as a magician is simply to navigate what we think is the reality going on. I know you think about forced perspectives like this to tell us about that.

So a lot of times magicians just simply understand your point of view literally. So we'll practice in front of a mirror or a camera, and if we get the angles right, we can create allusion that something appears, disappears, or even levitates. And this is one that's pretty easy to explain. But from your point of view, you see a silver ball that is apparently floating, Yes, But from another point of view or another angle, when I turn the sideway, so you can see it's a silver soup ladle, and you were just seeing the bowl of it and weren't seeing the handle, and the handle was simply under my armpit, which creates a beautiful illusion in the kitchen at soup time.

So a lot of times magicians just simply understand your point of view literally. So we'll practice in front of a mirror or a camera, and if we get the angles right, we can create allusion that something appears, disappears, or even levitates. And this is one that's pretty easy to explain. But from your point of view, you see a silver ball that is apparently floating, Yes, But from another point of view or another angle, when I turn the sideway, so you can see it's a silver soup ladle, and you were just seeing the bowl of it and weren't seeing the handle, and the handle was simply under my armpit, which creates a beautiful illusion in the kitchen at soup time.

Okay, So just for the audio audience, he put the soup ladle under his arm so the bottom of it is sticking out towards us, and it looks like a floating silver ball. And then he takes his hands off of the silver ball and it makes it look like he's levitating it with his hands. It's so simple and so good and so compelling. Check out the video if you're just listening to this on audio. Okay, So that's an example of forced perspective, as in, you know exactly where I am in the case of zoom COVID pandemic. Must have been cool for you in certain ways because you got to do all kinds of zoom magic tricks where you know precisely what the perspective is. But when you're doing this in an audience and live audience with lots of people, what kind of things can you do there in person?

Okay, So just for the audio audience, he put the soup ladle under his arm so the bottom of it is sticking out towards us, and it looks like a floating silver ball. And then he takes his hands off of the silver ball and it makes it look like he's levitating it with his hands. It's so simple and so good and so compelling. Check out the video if you're just listening to this on audio. Okay, So that's an example of forced perspective, as in, you know exactly where I am in the case of zoom COVID pandemic. Must have been cool for you in certain ways because you got to do all kinds of zoom magic tricks where you know precisely what the perspective is. But when you're doing this in an audience and live audience with lots of people, what kind of things can you do there in person?

Combining everything we've talked about, you can create a series of illusions that happen back to back to back to back. So it's just bombarded with magic. Because one of the things I like to create is just a bombardment of magic all coming out to your senses, all wines and together. It's a cumulative effect and it feels super magical.

Combining everything we've talked about, you can create a series of illusions that happen back to back to back to back. So it's just bombarded with magic. Because one of the things I like to create is just a bombardment of magic all coming out to your senses, all wines and together. It's a cumulative effect and it feels super magical.

That's great. And people, even if they're sniffing out some particular part of it, you're hitting them with lots of different things, and so they're not going to pick up on what's going on.

That's great. And people, even if they're sniffing out some particular part of it, you're hitting them with lots of different things, and so they're not going to pick up on what's going on.

Yeah, and they focus on the one that fools them.

Yeah, and they focus on the one that fools them.

Yeah, that's right. So Robert, how do you make sure that you understand what it is like to be in the audience's shoes looking at you.

Yeah, that's right. So Robert, how do you make sure that you understand what it is like to be in the audience's shoes looking at you.

So magicians have to have a lot of empathy. We're creating moments of delight and joy for other people, so we have to literally see it from their perspective, like physically for the magic to work.

So magicians have to have a lot of empathy. We're creating moments of delight and joy for other people, so we have to literally see it from their perspective, like physically for the magic to work.

But we also have to know.

But we also have to know.

What's their life experience and what's their expectations, what's their assumptions, and kind of put ourselves in their shoes to create moments of joy. And I was wanting to asked, what is the best magic trick. My answer was the ham sandwich heading. Gnulms, a Baltimore magician I think in the fifties, wrote a book and it's just a little paragraph in there. And the way it explains how you get to the best magic trick in the world is if you and I were walking down the street and you said, do a magic trick, and I reached the right packet, I pull out a ham sandwich.

What's their life experience and what's their expectations, what's their assumptions, and kind of put ourselves in their shoes to create moments of joy. And I was wanting to asked, what is the best magic trick. My answer was the ham sandwich heading. Gnulms, a Baltimore magician I think in the fifties, wrote a book and it's just a little paragraph in there. And the way it explains how you get to the best magic trick in the world is if you and I were walking down the street and you said, do a magic trick, and I reached the right packet, I pull out a ham sandwich.

You like, that's weird.

You like, that's weird.

But if it were lunchtimer walking down the street and you say do magic trick and I pull out ham sandwich, You're like, well, that's convenient timing. But if you had just explained to me a ham sandwich that you had been thinking about all day long, it was from your childhood, you could even get it here. And then you say do a magic trick and I pull up that ham sandwich. It's a freaking miracle. So when I say magicians have empathy, they really good magicians really take the time to think about where are they physically? Who are they? Are they engineers? Are they scientists? What's going on? Do they just get funding, do they just get FDA approval?

But if it were lunchtimer walking down the street and you say do magic trick and I pull out ham sandwich, You're like, well, that's convenient timing. But if you had just explained to me a ham sandwich that you had been thinking about all day long, it was from your childhood, you could even get it here. And then you say do a magic trick and I pull up that ham sandwich. It's a freaking miracle. So when I say magicians have empathy, they really good magicians really take the time to think about where are they physically? Who are they? Are they engineers? Are they scientists? What's going on? Do they just get funding, do they just get FDA approval?

What's the space they're in there?

What's the space they're in there?

There's a fountain there, and there's or they're on a ship in the bay or something like that, and then you take the lot all together and you create an illusion that is a freaking experience that they'll remember for the rest of their lives.

There's a fountain there, and there's or they're on a ship in the bay or something like that, and then you take the lot all together and you create an illusion that is a freaking experience that they'll remember for the rest of their lives.

That was Robert Strong, a professional magician. It's wonderful to watch his performances, and I'm linking some of his videos in the show notes. And next I called up two colleagues of mine, Stephen Macknick and Susannah Martinez Conde. They're both neuroscience professors and researchers at State University of New York Downtown Medical Center. They've been studying the intersection of magic with neuroscience for years, so I wanted to dive in with them. So you've asserted that magicians have been testing and exploiting the limits of attention and cognition for hundreds of years, and neurosciences just beginning to catch up with that. So tell us about that.

That was Robert Strong, a professional magician. It's wonderful to watch his performances, and I'm linking some of his videos in the show notes. And next I called up two colleagues of mine, Stephen Macknick and Susannah Martinez Conde. They're both neuroscience professors and researchers at State University of New York Downtown Medical Center. They've been studying the intersection of magic with neuroscience for years, so I wanted to dive in with them. So you've asserted that magicians have been testing and exploiting the limits of attention and cognition for hundreds of years, and neurosciences just beginning to catch up with that. So tell us about that.

We have been studying the neuroscience of magic for I guess about the almost twenty years now, and something that we realize early on is that as neuroscientists, we have sometimes been reinventing the wheel and arrive into conclusions and finding things about the mind and the brain that the magicians know for centuries, if not longer. So I have an example causes such as change blindness and in attentional blindness. These are cognitive neuroscience concepts that basically refer to the way that our brain prioritizes attention. So change blindness refers to when something changes but you don't realize, you don't notice the change because you have not been paying attention, sometimes during a gamma change, and we have continuity errors in movies and that sort of situation. And in attentional blindness simply refers to the fact that we cannot attend to a million things at once. We can, in fact, to attend to one thing at once, and so whatever you're not attending to, you are going to ignore. And you could say that you're blind to those events you're not attended.

We have been studying the neuroscience of magic for I guess about the almost twenty years now, and something that we realize early on is that as neuroscientists, we have sometimes been reinventing the wheel and arrive into conclusions and finding things about the mind and the brain that the magicians know for centuries, if not longer. So I have an example causes such as change blindness and in attentional blindness. These are cognitive neuroscience concepts that basically refer to the way that our brain prioritizes attention. So change blindness refers to when something changes but you don't realize, you don't notice the change because you have not been paying attention, sometimes during a gamma change, and we have continuity errors in movies and that sort of situation. And in attentional blindness simply refers to the fact that we cannot attend to a million things at once. We can, in fact, to attend to one thing at once, and so whatever you're not attending to, you are going to ignore. And you could say that you're blind to those events you're not attended.

To, and so magicians take advantage of this.

To, and so magicians take advantage of this.

What Susanna was saying with inattentional blindness has to do with when we are paying attention to something, we are not able to pay attention to other things. And this implies both a time that we're paying attention but also a space that we're paying attention. So attention also has a spatial component. So that is something that magicians learned a long time ago, that there was a spotlight of attention. And this is something that neuroscientists, cognitive neuroscience also discovered independently from magicians, and in fact, the evolution here of both concepts is so convergent that we came across the same terminology. Both scientists and magicians called this is spotlight of attention and independently of each other. And so this is where when you're paying attention to something, there is actually a point in your visual system that's a relatively small point where you're paying attention. It can be in the center of your vision or outside the center of your vision, and this area is where you actually can perform tasks that require attention. And outside that area we now know to some extent because of research that Susanna and I helped conduct, that you actually suppress everything else. Okay, so that's how the spotlight seems to be working in the brain and what neuroscience brought to the table. But magicians knew about the spotlight of attention from their own research in performing before anybody else.

What Susanna was saying with inattentional blindness has to do with when we are paying attention to something, we are not able to pay attention to other things. And this implies both a time that we're paying attention but also a space that we're paying attention. So attention also has a spatial component. So that is something that magicians learned a long time ago, that there was a spotlight of attention. And this is something that neuroscientists, cognitive neuroscience also discovered independently from magicians, and in fact, the evolution here of both concepts is so convergent that we came across the same terminology. Both scientists and magicians called this is spotlight of attention and independently of each other. And so this is where when you're paying attention to something, there is actually a point in your visual system that's a relatively small point where you're paying attention. It can be in the center of your vision or outside the center of your vision, and this area is where you actually can perform tasks that require attention. And outside that area we now know to some extent because of research that Susanna and I helped conduct, that you actually suppress everything else. Okay, so that's how the spotlight seems to be working in the brain and what neuroscience brought to the table. But magicians knew about the spotlight of attention from their own research in performing before anybody else.

So The magician's task is to draw your spotlight of attention to something they want you to look at while they're doing something else outside of that spotlight that you can't see. So give me an example.

So The magician's task is to draw your spotlight of attention to something they want you to look at while they're doing something else outside of that spotlight that you can't see. So give me an example.

Of that example is in terms of attentional management magicians, one term is a misdirection, but it's basically attentional management. And I'm thinking about the magic tree, the cups and balls. This cos back to the Roman Empire. It's still performed today. But when we say the magicians have known some of these things for a long time, it's a really long time.

Of that example is in terms of attentional management magicians, one term is a misdirection, but it's basically attentional management. And I'm thinking about the magic tree, the cups and balls. This cos back to the Roman Empire. It's still performed today. But when we say the magicians have known some of these things for a long time, it's a really long time.

Well.

Well.

In the Cups and Balls track, you typically performed with three upside down cups, and balls appear and disappear below the cups, and what they do is divide your attention. There's a minimum of three locations with the three cups, and.

In the Cups and Balls track, you typically performed with three upside down cups, and balls appear and disappear below the cups, and what they do is divide your attention. There's a minimum of three locations with the three cups, and.

They're moving them around.

They're moving them around.

And not only you're dividing your attention on three special occasions, but the magicians will be talking at the same time, tell them.

And not only you're dividing your attention on three special occasions, but the magicians will be talking at the same time, tell them.

Some sort of story.

Some sort of story.

They call it pattern And so what that forces spectators is to divide their attention. And so in multiple locations, cross multiple sensory systems, and as we explained before, we do not have the wiring to do that. We can really only pay attention to one thing, and so magicians are masters of the divide and conquered approach of attention.

They call it pattern And so what that forces spectators is to divide their attention. And so in multiple locations, cross multiple sensory systems, and as we explained before, we do not have the wiring to do that. We can really only pay attention to one thing, and so magicians are masters of the divide and conquered approach of attention.

So how does the cups and balls trick work? I mean, aside from dividing your attention, what are they actually doing there?

So how does the cups and balls trick work? I mean, aside from dividing your attention, what are they actually doing there?

So in the cups and balls, so you have three cups and you have three or more balls, and what they'll do is they'll show you under a cup that there's nothing there, and then they put down the cup and they show you another cup and there is a ball there. And then they move the cups around and you can follow. It's not very fast, you can see which cup is going where. And then when they move the cup around, they pull up the cup with the ball and earth the ball's gone. And then they opened another cup and the ball's there, and you know that that was what was empty. And they're doing this with slight of hand.

So in the cups and balls, so you have three cups and you have three or more balls, and what they'll do is they'll show you under a cup that there's nothing there, and then they put down the cup and they show you another cup and there is a ball there. And then they move the cups around and you can follow. It's not very fast, you can see which cup is going where. And then when they move the cup around, they pull up the cup with the ball and earth the ball's gone. And then they opened another cup and the ball's there, and you know that that was what was empty. And they're doing this with slight of hand.

So there's sleight of hand involved that we should not really disclose because we have been sworn to secrecy by various magic societies. But the main thing from a neuroscience perspective is that you are dividing your attention arguably and I do not believe the experiment has been done. But one experiment I would like to do is to have people and that track their say, their eye movements, and have them observed just one special location at once, one one cup, one ball. My prediction would be that they might have a much better chance at figuring this out just staying still with their attentional allocation than as we watch the trick naturally.

So there's sleight of hand involved that we should not really disclose because we have been sworn to secrecy by various magic societies. But the main thing from a neuroscience perspective is that you are dividing your attention arguably and I do not believe the experiment has been done. But one experiment I would like to do is to have people and that track their say, their eye movements, and have them observed just one special location at once, one one cup, one ball. My prediction would be that they might have a much better chance at figuring this out just staying still with their attentional allocation than as we watch the trick naturally.

But that, of course is not what we tend to do.

But that, of course is not what we tend to do.

So we wrote a paper about the Cups and Balls using Taelor the magician from Pen and Teller, and he actually performed it on camera in multiple different ways that we would consider to be a stimulu of different conditions for our experimental paradigm. And then we showed subjects these different videos with different conditions and we were able to learn a few things about how the Cups and Balls has done.

So we wrote a paper about the Cups and Balls using Taelor the magician from Pen and Teller, and he actually performed it on camera in multiple different ways that we would consider to be a stimulu of different conditions for our experimental paradigm. And then we showed subjects these different videos with different conditions and we were able to learn a few things about how the Cups and Balls has done.

So.

So.

First off, the general zeitgeist in magic is that you're drawing people's attention by moving your hands in a certain way and moving the cups in a certain way, and while you're making a big move over here, they don't notice a small move over there. That's an axiom of magic. A big move covers a small move, and the small move would be, of course, we're manipulating the balls, and the big move would be to draw your attention. And that can either draw your eye position as the spectator, or it can just draw your attention without moving your eyes. Now, Teller had a theory going into this study, and the theory was that certain kinds of motions were more attention grabbing than others. And in fact, he specifically thought that there was one type of motion that he and pen had actually developed and was so strong that it was perhaps the strongest form of stimulus that would draw humans attention. And they developed this while they were developing their famous cups and balls trick from Pennineller. That trick is famous because they actually do it and then they do it again with transparent cups, and the transparent cups still work. And so this was a huge shock, and it also violates all sorts of magical rules or magical ideas, because first off, you're not supposed to do the same trick twice. That's another axiom in magic, because there's a chance that the audience will figure out that trick.

First off, the general zeitgeist in magic is that you're drawing people's attention by moving your hands in a certain way and moving the cups in a certain way, and while you're making a big move over here, they don't notice a small move over there. That's an axiom of magic. A big move covers a small move, and the small move would be, of course, we're manipulating the balls, and the big move would be to draw your attention. And that can either draw your eye position as the spectator, or it can just draw your attention without moving your eyes. Now, Teller had a theory going into this study, and the theory was that certain kinds of motions were more attention grabbing than others. And in fact, he specifically thought that there was one type of motion that he and pen had actually developed and was so strong that it was perhaps the strongest form of stimulus that would draw humans attention. And they developed this while they were developing their famous cups and balls trick from Pennineller. That trick is famous because they actually do it and then they do it again with transparent cups, and the transparent cups still work. And so this was a huge shock, and it also violates all sorts of magical rules or magical ideas, because first off, you're not supposed to do the same trick twice. That's another axiom in magic, because there's a chance that the audience will figure out that trick.

But cups and.

But cups and.

Balls are so strong, it's so robust of a trick, and they're so good at performing it that they actually can do it twice in front of an audience without any risk of the audience figuring out the trick. But secondly, there's definitely not supposed to do it with transparent cups because it is literally possible to see the slag of hand in this case. It's much easier anyway to see the slight of hand in this case. But it still works because the attentional management is so strong, and he feels one of the ways they get away with some of their biggest moves in the cups and balls is with this one thing that he feels was really important, which is that if you do something where the ball drops, that is, the gravity actually accelerates the ball at nine point eight meters per second square down. That that is perhaps the strongest thing he thought to draw a human's attention. That there's something about things dropping in the gravity, well, that will draw a human being's attention very strongly. And they were able to do certain things in their act. Again we can't talk about the details, but certain things in their act were drawn because of dropping the ball. So they would have a ball on top of the upside down cup and he poured the ball off into his hand and while the ball was dropping, he could get away with magical murder. Okay, that's what his theory was. And so we did an experiment where we actually did a bunch of different conditions, including the ball dropping and including him moving the ball with his hands and other things to test what was the strongest draw for attention. And what we found was that dropping the ball in the gravity well was indeed very strong, but there was actually something that was a little bit stronger, which he'd never done before because it's not a very good magical technique, but he discovered that it actually worked really well, in fact stronger than pouring the ball in the graviol which is we asked him to just pick up the ball with his hand and put it down on the table, which is not part of the general set of movements that a magician would do, and that actually drew the eyes of the audience even better and it allowed him with his other hand to potentially do more trickery. So we were really thrilled by the outcome because we discovered something that not only advanced science did, it also advanced magic.

Balls are so strong, it's so robust of a trick, and they're so good at performing it that they actually can do it twice in front of an audience without any risk of the audience figuring out the trick. But secondly, there's definitely not supposed to do it with transparent cups because it is literally possible to see the slag of hand in this case. It's much easier anyway to see the slight of hand in this case. But it still works because the attentional management is so strong, and he feels one of the ways they get away with some of their biggest moves in the cups and balls is with this one thing that he feels was really important, which is that if you do something where the ball drops, that is, the gravity actually accelerates the ball at nine point eight meters per second square down. That that is perhaps the strongest thing he thought to draw a human's attention. That there's something about things dropping in the gravity, well, that will draw a human being's attention very strongly. And they were able to do certain things in their act. Again we can't talk about the details, but certain things in their act were drawn because of dropping the ball. So they would have a ball on top of the upside down cup and he poured the ball off into his hand and while the ball was dropping, he could get away with magical murder. Okay, that's what his theory was. And so we did an experiment where we actually did a bunch of different conditions, including the ball dropping and including him moving the ball with his hands and other things to test what was the strongest draw for attention. And what we found was that dropping the ball in the gravity well was indeed very strong, but there was actually something that was a little bit stronger, which he'd never done before because it's not a very good magical technique, but he discovered that it actually worked really well, in fact stronger than pouring the ball in the graviol which is we asked him to just pick up the ball with his hand and put it down on the table, which is not part of the general set of movements that a magician would do, and that actually drew the eyes of the audience even better and it allowed him with his other hand to potentially do more trickery. So we were really thrilled by the outcome because we discovered something that not only advanced science did, it also advanced magic.

That's terrific because It implies that we care about the social aspect too, not just the physics. But our attention is drawn by a human is doing something and I'm going to watch that. By the way, as a side note, I did some experiments a while ago that showed that something that grabs attention even more than let's say a ball dropping in gravity is when it violates the nine point eight meters per second square, when it's actually dropping faster or slower. That is a huge attention grab. I don't know how you pull it off on stage, but for example, one of the reasons that it's so compelling when we watch The Matrix or the movie three hundred is because things are speeding up and slowing down. Let's say Trinity jumps up in the air and we have very clear predictions about when she should hit the ground, but she stays in the air longer than she's supposed to. That sort of thing really grabs our attention.

That's terrific because It implies that we care about the social aspect too, not just the physics. But our attention is drawn by a human is doing something and I'm going to watch that. By the way, as a side note, I did some experiments a while ago that showed that something that grabs attention even more than let's say a ball dropping in gravity is when it violates the nine point eight meters per second square, when it's actually dropping faster or slower. That is a huge attention grab. I don't know how you pull it off on stage, but for example, one of the reasons that it's so compelling when we watch The Matrix or the movie three hundred is because things are speeding up and slowing down. Let's say Trinity jumps up in the air and we have very clear predictions about when she should hit the ground, but she stays in the air longer than she's supposed to. That sort of thing really grabs our attention.

I wonder if a neural adaptation also plays into that, because these kind of unexpected events sort of like keep you on your toes, and that a fast motion followed by slow motion, like you may imagine that your neurons would adapt to a certain rate of motion and then the unexpected or the change is what then drives again neural firing. But there's there's nothing else that you brought up that I wanted to comment on, and it's it's the social aspect of magic that is so important at so many levels, and that is one of the main tools that magicians use. For one, humor, it's a fantastic element of misdirection. One of the magicians that we originally collaborated with, Johnny Thompson, the Great TOMSONI he died a few years ago, but he used to say that when the audience laughs, time stops and the magician can do anything. And that's because emotions, priority, tie attention so powerfully related to this, Magicians they cultivate relationships with the with the audience, they're they're empathetic figures. It is in the in the magician's favor that the audience wants the magic to work, that they want the magician to succeed rather than trying to prove it wrong. But that's so that's another element. And finally I wanted to touch on the fact that a number of magic tricks rely on bringing on stage magic. They rely on bringing a volunteer on the stage, and that is just so compelling for the audience because spectators are identifying with the volunteers, just wondering what's.

I wonder if a neural adaptation also plays into that, because these kind of unexpected events sort of like keep you on your toes, and that a fast motion followed by slow motion, like you may imagine that your neurons would adapt to a certain rate of motion and then the unexpected or the change is what then drives again neural firing. But there's there's nothing else that you brought up that I wanted to comment on, and it's it's the social aspect of magic that is so important at so many levels, and that is one of the main tools that magicians use. For one, humor, it's a fantastic element of misdirection. One of the magicians that we originally collaborated with, Johnny Thompson, the Great TOMSONI he died a few years ago, but he used to say that when the audience laughs, time stops and the magician can do anything. And that's because emotions, priority, tie attention so powerfully related to this, Magicians they cultivate relationships with the with the audience, they're they're empathetic figures. It is in the in the magician's favor that the audience wants the magic to work, that they want the magician to succeed rather than trying to prove it wrong. But that's so that's another element. And finally I wanted to touch on the fact that a number of magic tricks rely on bringing on stage magic. They rely on bringing a volunteer on the stage, and that is just so compelling for the audience because spectators are identifying with the volunteers, just wondering what's.

Going to happen.

Going to happen.

Imagine mirror neurons firing wildly, and while the attention is fully allocated on the volunteer, then the magician can do whatever they need to be doing. And what's more, sometimes within that the magician draws an attention to something while they're doing something else. But there is also an element of time misdirection, because it is not necessarily that the magic manipulation is happening right now while the magician is misdirected and then maybe setting up a trick for later on, or they may be disposing of evidence for a trick that happened minutes ago. So things are not happening necessarily in the chronology that we perceive them from the audience perspective.

Imagine mirror neurons firing wildly, and while the attention is fully allocated on the volunteer, then the magician can do whatever they need to be doing. And what's more, sometimes within that the magician draws an attention to something while they're doing something else. But there is also an element of time misdirection, because it is not necessarily that the magic manipulation is happening right now while the magician is misdirected and then maybe setting up a trick for later on, or they may be disposing of evidence for a trick that happened minutes ago. So things are not happening necessarily in the chronology that we perceive them from the audience perspective.

We've touched on this issue about attention, and that's something that we study in neuroscience, but there are actually so many things that we discover in neuro about what our limits are, whether that's about color or about time perception or anything like that. Give us an example of the way that magicians operate more broadly taking advantage of these cognitive limits.

We've touched on this issue about attention, and that's something that we study in neuroscience, but there are actually so many things that we discover in neuro about what our limits are, whether that's about color or about time perception or anything like that. Give us an example of the way that magicians operate more broadly taking advantage of these cognitive limits.

Sure, So, following up on Susanna's comments about the late great tom Sony, so he had one trick that we discussed in our book Slights of Mind, and it's a visual illusion trick. And the way it worked was he had a beautiful volunteer, which of course the idea of using volunteers, or in this case, he wasn't a volunteer, was actually an assistant. But one thing you can do with volunteers or assistants is pick people who are interesting looking or have an assistant whos beautiful or whatever to draw attention of the audience to that person. And that was the case here. She was wearing a white dress. It left little to the imagination as it was described to us. We haven't seen the trick, but it was described to us. And so he on the stage he would tell the audience that he could turn this dress into a red dress. And he would say, let me show you how I do it on the counter of three, one two three, and then all the lights on the stage would turn red, turning everything red, the white dress, the assistant himself, and he would admit that that was a bad joke, but he did. You have to admit do it that he turned it into a red dress. But now he's really going to do it and entre it like this. At that moment, the lights would flicker again back to white, and the dress was red under white light. So what he actually did that? And this is a spoiler alert that we have to warn people about that we're going to spoil this trick. We had the Great Tom Sony's permission to spoil the trick, but we also have to put spoiler alerts whenever we do this. But the way it would work would be to have the bright red lights on the woman, so super bright people are looking at her. He's used his voice to direct attention to her, and this is for some period of time, which is causing an after image to develop in their visual system based on this brightly lit woman against a back background. And then when the lights turn off, there are gimmicks in the stage that a trapdoor opens and her dress is pulled off. And the dress is a special dress that's very tight, but she's got an even tighter dress on underneath that's the same, looks the same, but it's actually red. Okay, So the white dress is on top of the red one. So just within a few milliseconds, the white dress is pulled off. She has a red dress on while the stage is black. But they're everybody's seeing this positive after image that that happens. It's called iconic memory. That happens for just a very few brief milliseconds when you turn off the lights, you can see a positive after image, and then the lights come back on and you see her with real lighting, with white lighting, with the dress change.

Sure, So, following up on Susanna's comments about the late great tom Sony, so he had one trick that we discussed in our book Slights of Mind, and it's a visual illusion trick. And the way it worked was he had a beautiful volunteer, which of course the idea of using volunteers, or in this case, he wasn't a volunteer, was actually an assistant. But one thing you can do with volunteers or assistants is pick people who are interesting looking or have an assistant whos beautiful or whatever to draw attention of the audience to that person. And that was the case here. She was wearing a white dress. It left little to the imagination as it was described to us. We haven't seen the trick, but it was described to us. And so he on the stage he would tell the audience that he could turn this dress into a red dress. And he would say, let me show you how I do it on the counter of three, one two three, and then all the lights on the stage would turn red, turning everything red, the white dress, the assistant himself, and he would admit that that was a bad joke, but he did. You have to admit do it that he turned it into a red dress. But now he's really going to do it and entre it like this. At that moment, the lights would flicker again back to white, and the dress was red under white light. So what he actually did that? And this is a spoiler alert that we have to warn people about that we're going to spoil this trick. We had the Great Tom Sony's permission to spoil the trick, but we also have to put spoiler alerts whenever we do this. But the way it would work would be to have the bright red lights on the woman, so super bright people are looking at her. He's used his voice to direct attention to her, and this is for some period of time, which is causing an after image to develop in their visual system based on this brightly lit woman against a back background. And then when the lights turn off, there are gimmicks in the stage that a trapdoor opens and her dress is pulled off. And the dress is a special dress that's very tight, but she's got an even tighter dress on underneath that's the same, looks the same, but it's actually red. Okay, So the white dress is on top of the red one. So just within a few milliseconds, the white dress is pulled off. She has a red dress on while the stage is black. But they're everybody's seeing this positive after image that that happens. It's called iconic memory. That happens for just a very few brief milliseconds when you turn off the lights, you can see a positive after image, and then the lights come back on and you see her with real lighting, with white lighting, with the dress change.

So let me just repeat this in that during the few milliseconds when the lights went off, in between the red lights and the white lights, the audience is still seeing her as though she's there because they're having an after image. It's as though the stage hasn't gone black, right.

So let me just repeat this in that during the few milliseconds when the lights went off, in between the red lights and the white lights, the audience is still seeing her as though she's there because they're having an after image. It's as though the stage hasn't gone black, right.

Well, they can tell something's happened, and the light flickers. People see in their normal course of life. They might be in the bathroom and about to leave and they turn off the lights and they'll see that they get an after image. But we learn to ignore these things through life, right. But he's got the audience paying attention intentionally at the woman at the time that this happens, and so when the lights are actually off. What they can't see is any motion or the trap door or the dress going down through the trapdoor in just this hundred milliseconds or so that actually happens. They can't see it because there is no light on that time, and then the lights come back on and she's still standing there, and it reduces the chances that they're going to see anything.

Well, they can tell something's happened, and the light flickers. People see in their normal course of life. They might be in the bathroom and about to leave and they turn off the lights and they'll see that they get an after image. But we learn to ignore these things through life, right. But he's got the audience paying attention intentionally at the woman at the time that this happens, and so when the lights are actually off. What they can't see is any motion or the trap door or the dress going down through the trapdoor in just this hundred milliseconds or so that actually happens. They can't see it because there is no light on that time, and then the lights come back on and she's still standing there, and it reduces the chances that they're going to see anything.

Okay, so he's taking advantage of a visual illusion here. So tell us about the difference between visual illusions and cognitive illusions.

Okay, so he's taking advantage of a visual illusion here. So tell us about the difference between visual illusions and cognitive illusions.

But we should start with defining what an illusion is.

But we should start with defining what an illusion is.

An illusion is a perception that doesn't match reality, and we talk about visual or conit evlusions happen in the brain as opposed to optical illusions that have to do with the physical property supplied.

An illusion is a perception that doesn't match reality, and we talk about visual or conit evlusions happen in the brain as opposed to optical illusions that have to do with the physical property supplied.

Right, So, if we take a glass.

Right, So, if we take a glass.

Of water and we put a pencil inside and it appears to ban, that's an optical illusion. It has to do with the refraction indexes of air and water. It doesn't happen in the brain per se. But visual illusions and cognitive evlutions are constructed in the brain, and the difference really has to do with a water level. They take place in the hierarchy of information processing, so a visual illusion would be primarily a sensory illusion. We can also talk about there are attack delusions, auditory illusions, and so on. They happen close to the input. In fact, some of these visual illusions we can largely explain at the level of the retina instide of the eyeball, whereas a coality evlution happens higher up in the brain. And then we're talking about what we call cognitive processes, such as attention and memory and decision making. Magicians are going to rely much more often in cognitive evlutions attention and to a lesser extent, memory and decision making.

Of water and we put a pencil inside and it appears to ban, that's an optical illusion. It has to do with the refraction indexes of air and water. It doesn't happen in the brain per se. But visual illusions and cognitive evlutions are constructed in the brain, and the difference really has to do with a water level. They take place in the hierarchy of information processing, so a visual illusion would be primarily a sensory illusion. We can also talk about there are attack delusions, auditory illusions, and so on. They happen close to the input. In fact, some of these visual illusions we can largely explain at the level of the retina instide of the eyeball, whereas a coality evlution happens higher up in the brain. And then we're talking about what we call cognitive processes, such as attention and memory and decision making. Magicians are going to rely much more often in cognitive evlutions attention and to a lesser extent, memory and decision making.

So give us an example of a cognitive ilution, well, a.

So give us an example of a cognitive ilution, well, a.

Cognitive elution that happens in magic.

Cognitive elution that happens in magic.

Well, we have already talked about failing to perceive sleight of hand techniques and so forth, due to not paying attention to that place at a time, or due to having your attention divided. One of the great magicians and magic theorists is a Juan Tabarith from Spain, and that he famously conducts a magic tricking which he vanishes a coin, and that he has pumped the coin, he has it grabbed in the pomp on his hand. But at some point he makes a gesture to the audience. He says, wait a second, and that he actually he's showing them the coin. But because he's so masterful that manipulating attention, the image of that coin is getting into their readiness, but they do not see the coin because he's manipulating their attention so well.

Well, we have already talked about failing to perceive sleight of hand techniques and so forth, due to not paying attention to that place at a time, or due to having your attention divided. One of the great magicians and magic theorists is a Juan Tabarith from Spain, and that he famously conducts a magic tricking which he vanishes a coin, and that he has pumped the coin, he has it grabbed in the pomp on his hand. But at some point he makes a gesture to the audience. He says, wait a second, and that he actually he's showing them the coin. But because he's so masterful that manipulating attention, the image of that coin is getting into their readiness, but they do not see the coin because he's manipulating their attention so well.

So he really pushes.

So he really pushes.

The boundaries and challenges just how much can I get away with in terms of showing the audience exactly what I'm doing without them noticing because they're not paying attention.

The boundaries and challenges just how much can I get away with in terms of showing the audience exactly what I'm doing without them noticing because they're not paying attention.

We talked about how attention, which is a cognitive illusion, can happen where you pay attention to the wrong place. One of the ways to do that, the most common way, perhaps is to get you to look in the wrong place with the center of your eyes, so you're looking over here while they're doing something over here, and in the perfe of your vision you can't see very well anyway. So that is one way to misdirect attention. We call that overt misdirection. Now, with covert misdirection, it's much more interesting and Wantemoteth is a master of it, and one of the things he's been able to do is he'll do something with his hands. I can't do it because my hands would be off camera here, but say, down near his waist, he'll have you looking at something he's doing in his hands, and he'll look at it while he does it. And because of his gaze position, that audience learns through normal human and interactions to look where your interlocutors looking. So he is really well aware of this. So if he looks down at his hands, you guys are trying to pay attention and I know what's in my hands now, even though it's off camera here. But then what he'll do is, while he's doing it, he'll look up at you and then look back down. And when he looks up at you, you sense that he's looking up at you, so you look back at his eyes. And while you're doing that, even before you've moved your eyes, you'll move your attentional spotlight to see is he looking at me right? So you haven't even moved your eyes. He's moved his eyes up, got you to pay attention to his eyes while he does his magic trick. While you're you're still looking at his hands with the center of your vision. But he's got you to pay attention to his eyes and then he looks back down before you would move your eyes, and it's this really uncanny feeling that he did something huge right at the center of your gaze and you're certain of it, and still this magical effect happens. It's very powerful feeling of magical wonderment when that happens.