Indianapolis Colts PodcastsInside the Draft: Colts' 14th pick strategy and the draft’s biggest questions with David Helman
Welcome to Inside the Draft, a weekly preview of the upcoming NFL Draft with insiders from around the country.
Hello, welcome to this final episode of the Inside the Draft podcast here in the colt Saudio Network.
I'm Matt Taylor, and we've been with.
You every week in the months of March and April draft season here bringing you high level draft conversations with some of the best draftnicks in the business. We started with the combine when temperatures were still in the twenties, and now things are starting to warm up a bit here in the springtime in Indianapolis and Central Indiana, and the draft is just a little over one week away. Coming up next week, though, Rick Venturi will join us here on the colt Saudio Network for his annual Inside Football podcast breaking down the draft and the top prospects at some positions of need for the Indianapolis Colts. So we look forward to that next week leading into Round number one on Thursday night. The Colts still hold the fourteenth overall pick in the draft in Round number one. By the way, the Colts have twice held the fourteenth overall pick. But you have to go back in the day getting the time machine there a little bit once in nineteen fifty three and again in nineteen sixty five. The Colts head into the draft with seven picks, one in each round. On Day two of the draft Friday, the Colts will be picking in the second round, number forty five overall, and then in the third round.
Number eighty overall.
Today, we're bringing you another great draft conversation and our guest on this final episode is David Hellman, who covers the NFL Draft and the NFL for Fox Sports. He's also the host of the NFL on Fox podcasts and also spent some of his career covering the Cowboys as well. And David joined myself and Jeffrey Gorman this week to break down his thoughts in the Colts offseason moves at quarterback, why he has a hard time trying to predict what the Colts will do with their first round pick, and also his predictions on how the top pick in the draft will unfold. So let's get it going here, David Hellman from Fox Sports. On this week's Inside the Draft podcast.
We welcome in David Hellman, draft insider for the NFL on Fox as well as covers this great game on Fox it has a great podcast, the NFL on Fox Podcast. You must check it out. Find him out on Twitter at David Hellman Underscore once again at David Hellman Underscore. David, I appreciate you.
Being here today.
I'm going to get to the draft with you, but I know you also cover the Cowboys for Fox Sports, so you have an eye on the NFC East, and I want to start with if you could give us a once over what your thoughts are on Daniel Jones signing with the Colts this offseason. You've seen plenty of them watching the NFC East through the past years. What are the Colts getting in that quarterback?
You know, it's funny the way that your expectations and your opinion can change when the money does. Because I've, you know, nothing against him personally. I've long been a critic of Daniel Jones because of the resources that were put into him. You know, I didn't really buy that he was worthy of the pick the New York Giants spin on him at the time. It felt awfully rich to me, as somebody that covers the draft. I was not a fan when he got the one hundred and sixty million dollar deal to be the Giants franchise quarterback. Not to pat myself on the back, but I just I didn't see that aging very well at the time. But after all of that, the Colts land him for one year, fourteen million dollars. I think, you know, very reasonable money for I mean reasonable money for a qualified backup. Really, So if it's a guy that has a chance to start, I think that's an even better deal. I mean, it's hard not to think about guys like Sam Darnold in the recent past that have signed deals like that and really taken it and run with it. I think Daniel is He's obviously a very naturally talented guy. He doesn't get the anywhere near the credit he deserves.
For his athleticism.
So you think about what the Colts have done in the run game over the years, I think he could be very you know, I think he could add a lot to that. He's obviously played a lot of NFL football, and if he's healthy, he's not a bad quarterback. I just never bought that he was this top ten franchise guy. But that's not what the Colts are paying him, right The Colts are paying him a bargain deal. Like I said to be an insurance policy or maybe a starter, and I think that could really work. I think if he needs to play, or if he wins the job from Anthony Richardson, I think he could lead that offense to some good places.
And I liked the deal a lot.
I was a little surprised the Vikings let him get out of their building, to be honest with you, because that seemed like it made a hell of a lot of sense for them with their own young quarterback. So the Colts were clearly willing to pay a little bit more, and I think it was a really good decision.
We'll see how it ages.
Obviously there's so much anticipation and pressure on the Anthony Richardson situation, but that it's not a bad card to have in your back pocket at.
All Colts fans. There's some upside on Daniel Jones. We hear from David Hellman again, follow him on Twitter. Acts at David Hellman. Underscore quarterbacks in this NFL draft do the tough two And of course I'm talking about cam Ward and Shador Sanders. Are they gone within the first ten picks of this draft?
I mean, cam is for sure. I am completely bought in on this idea, and I know it's lying season, it's smoke screen season. You never know for sure, but I'm very bought in on the idea that cam Ward is going to be a Titan at number one.
Shadour is a little trickier, you know.
I think it's there's obviously so many landing spots that he could go within the top ten.
Right. Cleveland and the Giants speak for themselves.
I think the Saints and the Raiders, even with the Geno Smith deal, I think the Raiders can't be completely written off.
But also we see this every year.
I mean, quarterbacks are incredibly hard to project because it is such an important position and it is so valuable to get the guy I on a rookie deal and have four or five years of cheap quarterback play to work on the rest of your roster with I would be surprised if he's there outside of the top ten. But you also have to take these teams grades into account. I mean, it was I believe it was. What three years ago, twenty twenty two, we spent so much time and energy talking about Pickett and Malik Willis and Desmond Ritter, and a lot of people thought those guys might go really high as well, and Pikett waited around until the twenties, and then the other two guys weren't even first round picks. I don't think that'll happen to Schadur Sanders, but I can at least conceive of a world where he's picked in the teens or maybe even the twenties. I think he'll be a first round pick, but I see his range as being anywhere between two and three and probably twenty twenty one.
I think Pittsburgh is like the absolute.
Latest I could see him going, but I do think there's some some room for fluctuation there.
I want to stay on quarterbacks, and a lot of people are still talking about Shador Sanders, and I saw dan Orlowsky recently on ESPN kind of picking his game apart, not not to be critical or negative, but just you know, being honest about what he sees. In college, he was either wowing people with his accuracy or just kind of checking it down at the line of scrimmage, dunking and dunk in his way for points with Colorado. How do you classify Sanders now that we've got all the intel on him going into this draft, had his Pro day last week, so he's kind of checked all the boxes along the way leading up to the draft. Where are you with him as it relates to him having a successful NFL career.
I think Schadur is unfortunately.
I mean, there's so much about him that gets analyzed and picked apart that has nothing to do with how he is as a player. Right, Obviously he's Deon Sanders' son. He's this very brash personality that you know, Colorado has has skyrocketed to the forefront of college football.
You've seen the.
Very dramatic games and the celebrity culture that kind of came to Colorado while Shaduur was there. So like all of that gets baked in and really, at the end of the day, has nothing to do with how good of a quarterback he is. If he was not Deon Sanders' son, I think there would be way less argument about how good he is now. I don't necessarily he's I don't see him as this like prototypical slam dunk top three pick in the in the vein of some of these guys we've seen in recent years, like Caleb Williams or Trevor Lawrence. But he's got more than enough arm strength. He's incredibly accurate. He's yeah, he's a little bit undersized, but in I mean, we've seen it has become I would even say the norm for teams to care less about that stuff. I mean, Bryce Young and Baker Mayfield were number one overall picks in the NFL draft. If those two guys have the physical makeup to pull it off, than Shadur Sanders absolutely does. My concerns with him are the same as they are with so many other guys that come out, and it's just adapting to the structure and timing that you have to have as an NFL quarterback. You know, hero ball is a lot harder to pull off in the NFL, and if you're gonna do it, you probably need to have some freaky, you know, physical traits like Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, and Lamar Jackson do. I don't think sur Sanders quite qualifies for that level of athleticism. So if you don't have it at the NFL level, you got to learn to play in structure. You got to learn to get the ball out on time. Not to say that he can't do it, but I don't think his college game really translates that well to what an NFL quarterback needs to look like. So I think there needs to be some development there at the NFL level. I absolutely thinks he's talented enough and has good enough tape to be, like I said, a top ten pick, and I think a lot of the debate is hung up on just how famous he is for reasons other than playing quarterback.
Yeah, no question about that.
All right, David, Let's talk about the Colts and your latest mock draft. You've got the Colts taking Colston Lovelin out of Michigan. Obviously we have read up on him. Field stretching tight end could be great right away, at least in the passing game. So David, what kind of instant impact player is he in the NFL? Potentially within this fit under Shane Stike in this Colts offense.
Would you mind if I actually I want to turn.
This back on y'all because I got the Colts are very interesting to me for a couple of reasons, one being I feel like the Colts are one of these teams where, of course first round picks always matter. It's not to say that doesn't matter, but the Colts are kind of stuck to me at least and get again. This is like from a national perspective, where you're trying to keep an eye on everything. The Colts are stuck in this situation where it's like, Okay, whatever they do, it's not gonna matter unless Anthony Richardson takes the next step comes that quarterback. So I think a lot of people are looking for a first round match with the Colts that makes Anthony Richardson a better player. And that's why you see so many people like me mocking them a tight end because the depth chart suggests that they need one. Tight end is often a quarterback's best friend, and so you wind up with a lot of people saying Tyler Warren and Colson Lovelin. I think it makes a lot of sense on the surface, But I've also done this enough to know that Chris Ballard and other NFL general managers, they're not just thinking about what's gonna help Anthony Richardson over the next dozen games. They got to think about multiple years in the future. They got to think about the value of the contract when you pick a guy as high as the Colts will be picking. So with all that in mind, is it as simple to y'all as people that know this team far better than I do. Is it as simple to y'all as saying, Hey, they need a guy that's gonna help Anthony Richardson. Or are we are those of us that are further away missing something? No.
I think a great argument that you have. I think it's something that we've kicked around here in the offseason a handful of times when it's not as slam dunk as Hey, just take the best tight end available because, as you said, we need one on the roster and it can help Anthony Richardson continue to grow and develop. But they have two offensive line starters that have left the team in free agency, and Ryan Kelly and Will Fries. They need some options there. They need more defensive line depth. They could also use another pass rusher to compliment what lou An Rumo wants to do as a defensive coordinator in his first year here in Indianapolis. So kind of boils down to how deep tight end is and what percentage of the top tight ends can you get on Day two.
And that's the great thing about the draft. And look, it would make all the sense in the world if they did draft a tight end and I think most people would would applaud them for that. You mentioned the two losses on the offensive line. It makes so much sense to do either of those things.
But I can see a world where.
You know, Samsonwcom and Quity pay are both in contract years, right, I could see a world where the value is better at pass rusher. I know the Colts took La Tu Latu last year, but you could still wind up in a situation where that's the best possible player at a very important position. Sure, and that makes all the sense in the world too, But I think people would kill Chris Ballard for doing that because you gotta make life as easy as possible on the quarterback this year if you want everybody to keep their jobs. So I'm curious to see how you strike that balance between drafting purely and drafting.
To help out your quarterback.
But like I said, I've done this enough times to know.
I would.
There has got to be twenty thousand mock drafts that have put a tight end in Indianapolis this spring, and I think I'd be surprised if it was that tidy, because it usually isn't.
I'm with you on that one, totally agree that's David Hellman from Fox Sports NFL Draft Insider and covers the NFL. Follow him on Twitter x at David Hellman Underscore Where is the beef? I love that phrase from years past. I'm a lot older than you, so I used it more than you did, David. But where is the beef of this draft?
Second? Third round?
Chris Pallard. Chris Pallard loves to make hay in the second and third rounds. And we know I've talked to different experts, different mock draft analysts that have said, you know, there might be twelve to twenty first round, actual first round choices picks in this draft. Where's your meet in that second and third round where the value is?
Well, it's not just me.
I mean, you know, I'm glad people care enough about my opinion to listen to the podcast, But you want to get informed opinions from the scouts and the coaches and the executives that actually look at this stuff right, And everything I've heard from talking to people is the positions worth getting excited about. I think you'll hear a lot of people in the NFL talking about defensive line all over the place, edge rusher as well, as defensive tackle, this seems to be an incredibly deep group at that position. And then I know it's probably not exciting to the Colts because you have Jonathan Taylor on the roster, but you hear so much about how fun this running back class is, and once you dive into it, you get the hype. I mean, there's fifteen or sixteen really good looking running backs in this class. There could be as many as three drafted in the first round. I think you could see six to eight drafted in the top fifty sixty picks. There's just a lot of talent there. So maybe not the best news for the Colts, although on the flip side of that, every running back that's taken could push another quality prospect down the board to Indianapolis. But those are the positions that get me the most excited, defensive line and running back.
Doubling back to the quarterback conversation that we were having David, you know, as it relates to the top of the draft. Russell Wilson, Now with the Giants, should they still be on the hunt for a quarterback with the third overall pick, and if so, who should it be? How should they attack the short term versus the long term at that position as it relates to this draft.
I just said a bunch of nice stuff about Shadar Sanders, and I really do like him as a player, to be honest with you, But I've been on this train with the Giants this year of saying now's not the right time, not for the Giants, I don't think, because they are still fairly you know, they're they're far away from being a true contender when you think about where they are as a team and the division that they play in. I mean, both of the NFC Championship Game participants are in their division. So you're not one draft away from really mattering in the NFC conversation. Russell Wilson clear can get you to respectability. He's done it the last two years. You know, he was solid in Denver when they didn't make the playoffs, and then he got the Steelers to the playoffs.
I know the season went south in a hurry, but ten wins for.
The New York Giants after the decade that they've been through would be phenomenal stuff. So I like the idea of the Giants bolstering their roster. You know, if it's Travis Hunter.
Great.
If it's Abdul Carter also great. Take the best player that's there for you that's not a quarterback. And if you insist on taking a quarterback anyway, you can do that with I think they have the thirty fourth overall pick. They have a pick in the sixties. You can find a guy to play behind Russell Wilson if your hell bent on drafting a quarterback. I would rather see the Giants improve their overall roster, though, And I'll be honest, you know, if the Giants add let's say they add Abdul Carter, you have one of the best pass rushes in the NFL. You've got Russell Wilson, you got a franchise receiver in Malik Neighbors. If Brian Dable is as good of a coach as I think he is, you should be able to win eight nine games with that team, or at least be in the mix, you know, and so show me you can do that, and then we can. You know, we'll keep you around, We'll give you an extension, we don't have to bring in an all new regime, and then we can look for the quarterback next year. I'd rather do that than have Joe Shane and Brian Dable draft Shador Sanders at three overall, get themselves fired, and now Shaduur's working with the coaching staff that didn't draft him. I think that is that's bad for everybody involved. So for a lot of reasons, I'd rather see the Giants punt on a top ten quarterback for at least for at least this year.
Sound like Mark Cuban right there for those reasons, I'm out. I like that.
Yeah, last one for me, David, As Jeffrey said at the top, cover the Cowboys very in depth. So Brian Schottenheimer now in Dallas, he was with the Colts for a couple of years as quarterbacks coach with Andrew Luck. I remember those days. Finally, good guy, good coach. Does he feel like he's ready to you? And how do you think this is going to play out? And how poised do you think the Cowboys are to rebound this season after missing out on the postseason last year?
Well, in true Cowboys fashion, I really think that's going to depend on how well they do in this draft, because that's how the Cowboys insist on building their team. You know, they're famously inactive in free agency. I'm sure they would argue that they did a lot more work this year, which is true, but doing just over the bare minimums not really getting the job done. When again, just like the Giants, you share a division with the Eagles and now the Commanders. So I really think this is a draft where the Cowboys are going to have to find one, if not two, like star caliber rookies to really improve themselves enough to contend on a meaningful level. I was dubious about Brian Schottenheimer. I I don't think there's any way around it. It's a pretty uninspiring hire, and you choose the guy that's never been a head coach, longtime NFL assistant who just so happened to work one hundred feet down the hallway from where Jerry.
Jones and Stephen Jones' offices.
Having said that, I've been really impressed by what he's done since getting the job.
I really like his coaching staff. You know, brought Matti Everflus back to Dallas.
Obviously, he was an excellent defensive coordinator with the Colts. Turned that into a head coaching job in Chicago did not go very well. I still think he's a really good defensive coordinator. I think he can get the Cowboys defense on track. I'm excited to see what he can do with Micah Parsons. Some other really interesting hires.
You know.
He hired Clayton Adams out of Arizona to be his offensive coordinator. The Cardinals have done some really exciting stuff in their run game and with their offensive line, so that's very intriguing. The defensive line coach is coming over from the New York Jets, where I mean the one of the few things that Jets have gotten right in recent years is rushing the passers. So there's a lot of hires he's made to that I really like. Unfortunately for him, I feel like his hands are a little bit tied by how the Cowboys choose to acquire talent, which I think that's something all Cowboys head coaches in recent history have in common. So I'm interested to see how they do in this draft. If they nail it, if they hit it out of the park, I think they could be a lot better than a lot of us expect.
If they don't, then that's probably more of the same, which is pretty disappointing.
He hosts the NFL on Fox podcast. His name's David Helman. Follow him on Twitter x once again at David Hellman underscore, you're out in Tinseltown. You're out in LA right now. So I gotta have an entertainment question if you don't mind, Oh of course, I.
Mean I am the antithesis of like this entertainment. You know, I don't spend a lot of time in Hollywood. No, I'll do what I can.
You're gonna like this one though.
There's a series that is streaming called Landman that Jerry Jones was on with Billy Bob Thornton as well as John Ham. Did you happen to see the clip of the Cowboys owner from Landman?
I did? I did.
I haven't seen the show, but I've seen the clip and I gotta tell you amazing to me. He No, he was phenomenal. Not to take credit away from Jerry, but like you know, it went viral on the Internet and everybody was talking about how good of a job he did, and I was like, oh, yeah, I could have told you all this, Like Jerry is a gifted public speaker.
I was.
I was not surprised at all, and I've seen him give similar spiels. You know, he talks about working with his family all the time. He likes to reflect on his career. He's gotten a little emotional in recent years, you know, as he's gotten older. I think looking back at the journey they've all been on since he bought the team, it was phenomenal. But watching it as somebody that's been around the Cowboys for a long time, I was like, oh, yeah, I could have told y'all he had this.
It really was. It touched me.
And you talked about pulling on those heartstrings when he talked about his kids and stuff. I was really blown away. And I just I know you're close to that franchise. I just wanted to get your take on it. David.
Oh, I mean it felt it felt very real.
It felt like a conversation that Jerry has probably had in his real life.
You know.
I think people say, like, the best fiction is is not as not as far fetched as you would guess, And yeah, I mean Jerry talks about that stuff all the time. All three of his kids are intimately involved in the day to day.
Operations with the Cowboys.
Uh. Some fans would probably say they wish it wasn't that way, but hey, that's it's it's his team to run and yeah, it's it's a very family driven organization.
So to see, Like I said, I like he when he got the script.
From Taylor shared, Taylor shared, and he's he's he's friends with.
Taylor shared as well.
I think that that relationship goes beyond just doing that one scene. And I think when Taylor Sheridan told him what he had in mind, I bet he was probably like, yeah, I just got.
Yeah, right right. And David, I know you're swamped.
You've got a very busy schedule obviously with the podcast and covering the league for Fox and Foxsports dot Com. Uh So, I know you don't get a lot of free time. But if you're gonna prioritize one thing to stream or binge watch, it's gotta be land Man. It's definitely worth That's all in. Yeah, that's all in. And I'm a tough critic. I'm a very tough critic.
You know.
I usually watch something for like five six episodes, and if you don't hook me and you don't bring me in, I'm out. So Landman is the best thing I've seen in the last decade. That's how good it is.
I will take that into consideration when I when my fiance and I are figuring out what's watching it? Right?
Great, that is your Hollywood Minute with David Hellman from Fox Splirts right there.
Hey.
If he's not hosting the NFL on Fox, that's right. If he's not hosting the NFL on Fox podcast, he's covering the NFL and the upcoming NFL Draft for Fox as well. Again at David Hellman Underscore. You can also find him at Carla's Cafe on Third Street near Cedar sin I. If you want that good sandwich day, David, it is there for you.
I have got some free time later in the week and that is exactly what I'm planning.
On land Man in a sandwich and good to go land Man and a sandwich.
That's right.
Hey, we got better today thanks to you, David Helm appreciate the
Time anytime, fellas happy to be here.
