Hi friend, thanks so much for downloading this broadcast and it is my hope that you'll hear something that will challenge you, grow you up in him, and get you out into the marketplace of ideas. But before you start listening, let me take a moment and tell you what this month's truth tool is. It's the Mediterranean Sea Rules by Robert Morgan. I talked to him often on the air because he's such a superb writer, and in this particular book, he takes the story of Paul's shipwreck, recorded in the book of acts, and gives us ten principles of how we push through the storm, learning to trust in God and all that he has done for us. It's a magnificent book. It's a short book, and in typical Robert Morgan writing style, it is a powerful book. I strongly recommend that you have a copy of The Mediterranean Sea Rules, because trust me, every single one of us will find ourselves on stormy seas at some point in our voyage through life. As for your copy of The Mediterranean Sea Rules by calling 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58 or go online to in the market with Janet Parshall. Scroll to the bottom of the page. There's the book, click it on, Make Your Gift and we'll send you a copy. My way of saying thank you because we are listener supported radio. Your gifts keep this broadcast on the air. By the way, if you'd like to give regularly, you're called a partial partner. You give every single month a level of your own choosing. You always get the truth tool. But in addition, I'll send out a weekly newsletter that only my partial partners get. It contains my writing and a little audio piece as well. So pray about it and thanks in advance. Just call eight 7758 or online at in the Market with Janet Parshall. Again the truth tool the Mediterranean Sea rules. Thanks so much. And now please enjoy the broadcast.

Hi friend, thanks so much for downloading this broadcast and it is my hope that you'll hear something that will challenge you, grow you up in him, and get you out into the marketplace of ideas. But before you start listening, let me take a moment and tell you what this month's truth tool is. It's the Mediterranean Sea Rules by Robert Morgan. I talked to him often on the air because he's such a superb writer, and in this particular book, he takes the story of Paul's shipwreck, recorded in the book of acts, and gives us ten principles of how we push through the storm, learning to trust in God and all that he has done for us. It's a magnificent book. It's a short book, and in typical Robert Morgan writing style, it is a powerful book. I strongly recommend that you have a copy of The Mediterranean Sea Rules, because trust me, every single one of us will find ourselves on stormy seas at some point in our voyage through life. As for your copy of The Mediterranean Sea Rules by calling 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58 or go online to in the market with Janet Parshall. Scroll to the bottom of the page. There's the book, click it on, Make Your Gift and we'll send you a copy. My way of saying thank you because we are listener supported radio. Your gifts keep this broadcast on the air. By the way, if you'd like to give regularly, you're called a partial partner. You give every single month a level of your own choosing. You always get the truth tool. But in addition, I'll send out a weekly newsletter that only my partial partners get. It contains my writing and a little audio piece as well. So pray about it and thanks in advance. Just call eight 7758 or online at in the Market with Janet Parshall. Again the truth tool the Mediterranean Sea rules. Thanks so much. And now please enjoy the broadcast.

Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.

Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.

The conference was over. The president won a pledge.

The conference was over. The president won a pledge.

Americans worshiping government over God.

Americans worshiping government over God.

Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years.

Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years.

The Palestinians and the Israelis negotiated.

The Palestinians and the Israelis negotiated.

Hi, friends.

Hi, friends.

Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. I am so glad we're going to spend this next hour together. So here's my opening question to sort of get you thinking critically and biblically. If I were to ask you this question, tell me about your relationship with God. Tell me about your attachment to God. Would you know what I meant by attachment? And therefore, would you be able to have a follow up question that you could say it was healthy or it was an unhealthy attachment? Or do you think, oh, I don't even think of the word attachment when I talk about God? Well, that's what we're going to talk about. Secure how to have a healthy attachment to God. Now, I don't know where you are in my house when my four babies running around and I had four under six, we used to call it the arsenic hour. Not that we would ever consider that as an option, but it was. It was one of the roughest times of day. Or you happen to be finishing up the work day. You're coming home and you're burnt out and you're exhausted. You're discouraged. You're fatigued. You just you just want to set your mind on things above. Well, good, because you've come to the right place. I don't know, just thinking about God is always a good idea. But thinking about our relationship with God an even better idea. And boy do we have a great teacher this hour. Ken Haddock is with us. She's a licensed professional counselor, supervisor, and an accredited clinical trauma specialist, which will factor into this in a bit. With expertise in treating complex mental health conditions through clinical and biblical methods. I'm always interested in people who take that biblical and clinical approach. Ken, by the way, has spoken at conferences and churches, been featured in numerous media outlets regarding the intersection of Christianity and mental health counseling. Kenza and her husband own Oceanic Counseling Group, which is an outpatient mental health agency that's headquartered in South Carolina. She's the author of The Three Enemies of Your Mental Health and the Ex-Muslims Guide to Christianity. That piqued your curiosity, didn't it? Hang on to that for a minute. And the book that we're going to talk about today eventually is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. So pull up your chair, make yourself comfortable, get your mind on things above. Obviously, if you're driving, I'm being figurative, but just make yourself comfortable as we step into this conversation. Kenzie the Warmest of Welcomes I cannot tell you how much I've been looking forward to this conversation. You represent one of my hot button issues, which is really and truly working diligently, compassionately, faithfully to remove the stigma of mental health issues from the church. And the more we talk about it, the more I think that stigma will evaporate, the more we're going to understand that churches are where people turn. And by the way, these are secular universities doing this study. When they're given a diagnosis, they don't want their clinician. They want their pastor, their priest, their imam, their rabbi. They want somebody of faith to affirm that they still have value. That tells you something about our attachment to God. But I want to go to the last book that you wrote before this one, The Ex-Muslims Guide to Christianity. Your stunningly beautiful. And I would not have a clue had I not seen something about your past that you came out of an Islamic background. Tell me your story. I really want to hear it.

Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. I am so glad we're going to spend this next hour together. So here's my opening question to sort of get you thinking critically and biblically. If I were to ask you this question, tell me about your relationship with God. Tell me about your attachment to God. Would you know what I meant by attachment? And therefore, would you be able to have a follow up question that you could say it was healthy or it was an unhealthy attachment? Or do you think, oh, I don't even think of the word attachment when I talk about God? Well, that's what we're going to talk about. Secure how to have a healthy attachment to God. Now, I don't know where you are in my house when my four babies running around and I had four under six, we used to call it the arsenic hour. Not that we would ever consider that as an option, but it was. It was one of the roughest times of day. Or you happen to be finishing up the work day. You're coming home and you're burnt out and you're exhausted. You're discouraged. You're fatigued. You just you just want to set your mind on things above. Well, good, because you've come to the right place. I don't know, just thinking about God is always a good idea. But thinking about our relationship with God an even better idea. And boy do we have a great teacher this hour. Ken Haddock is with us. She's a licensed professional counselor, supervisor, and an accredited clinical trauma specialist, which will factor into this in a bit. With expertise in treating complex mental health conditions through clinical and biblical methods. I'm always interested in people who take that biblical and clinical approach. Ken, by the way, has spoken at conferences and churches, been featured in numerous media outlets regarding the intersection of Christianity and mental health counseling. Kenza and her husband own Oceanic Counseling Group, which is an outpatient mental health agency that's headquartered in South Carolina. She's the author of The Three Enemies of Your Mental Health and the Ex-Muslims Guide to Christianity. That piqued your curiosity, didn't it? Hang on to that for a minute. And the book that we're going to talk about today eventually is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. So pull up your chair, make yourself comfortable, get your mind on things above. Obviously, if you're driving, I'm being figurative, but just make yourself comfortable as we step into this conversation. Kenzie the Warmest of Welcomes I cannot tell you how much I've been looking forward to this conversation. You represent one of my hot button issues, which is really and truly working diligently, compassionately, faithfully to remove the stigma of mental health issues from the church. And the more we talk about it, the more I think that stigma will evaporate, the more we're going to understand that churches are where people turn. And by the way, these are secular universities doing this study. When they're given a diagnosis, they don't want their clinician. They want their pastor, their priest, their imam, their rabbi. They want somebody of faith to affirm that they still have value. That tells you something about our attachment to God. But I want to go to the last book that you wrote before this one, The Ex-Muslims Guide to Christianity. Your stunningly beautiful. And I would not have a clue had I not seen something about your past that you came out of an Islamic background. Tell me your story. I really want to hear it.

Absolutely. And thank you so much for having me. You know, Islam was a huge factor in me even having an unhealthy attachment to God, but more so Janet. I feel like my life experiences and trauma that took place in my younger years of life impacted how I viewed authority figures, specifically God. And it made it very difficult for me to just trust, even when I became a believer that I have a God who cares about me, that I truly have a God who loves me. And so I grew up in an Islamic household, and my perspective of life as as a muslim girl was that I was here for a certain amount of time, and my goal was to literally my goal in life was to earn salvation through works. And so growing up as a muslim, my identity and even my eternal security were tied to my parents. Because Islam teaches that your parents can influence your eternal life. And so this is where, like, everything shifted in my life. When I was 16 years old, my parents arranged a marriage for me, and this marriage was for solely for the purpose of staying in the United States. So imagine I'm a sophomore in high school and this is a fraudulent marriage. I was told, we're going to the courthouse. You're going to marry this person and make sure you don't kiss him on the lips that I remember. And literally, we're going to come back home and you're never to bring it up again. And that's what I did. And so years fast forward years later, I turn 18 and while still married on paper, I start dating a guy behind my parents back because as a muslim, I wasn't allowed to date even at 18. And so I got pregnant by him and Janet, I was petrified. Um, I guess my mom could tell from my face that something was off, and she confronted me one night. And let's just say it was a bad night for me that night, and I. I left home and I ran away from home and miscarried a couple of days later. And so it was. It was an awful like road that God redeemed me from. You know, a few months passed and as I was trying to reconcile with my family, I became pregnant again. And my parents found out and threatened that if I didn't abort the baby, they would turn me into immigration for the fraudulent marriage. And, um, between that and they used Islamic teachings. Which site that a baby born out of wedlock is condemned to hell. That's what Islam teaches. Um, and so within a couple of weeks, I just succumbed to the pressure and had an abortion. And Janet, even though as a muslim, I thought I was it was like an act of mercy. I still felt broken. Something broke within me. And not long after that, I was approached by the U.S. marshals, and they were questioning me about the marriage that took place when I was 16. I know, it's so much.

Absolutely. And thank you so much for having me. You know, Islam was a huge factor in me even having an unhealthy attachment to God, but more so Janet. I feel like my life experiences and trauma that took place in my younger years of life impacted how I viewed authority figures, specifically God. And it made it very difficult for me to just trust, even when I became a believer that I have a God who cares about me, that I truly have a God who loves me. And so I grew up in an Islamic household, and my perspective of life as as a muslim girl was that I was here for a certain amount of time, and my goal was to literally my goal in life was to earn salvation through works. And so growing up as a muslim, my identity and even my eternal security were tied to my parents. Because Islam teaches that your parents can influence your eternal life. And so this is where, like, everything shifted in my life. When I was 16 years old, my parents arranged a marriage for me, and this marriage was for solely for the purpose of staying in the United States. So imagine I'm a sophomore in high school and this is a fraudulent marriage. I was told, we're going to the courthouse. You're going to marry this person and make sure you don't kiss him on the lips that I remember. And literally, we're going to come back home and you're never to bring it up again. And that's what I did. And so years fast forward years later, I turn 18 and while still married on paper, I start dating a guy behind my parents back because as a muslim, I wasn't allowed to date even at 18. And so I got pregnant by him and Janet, I was petrified. Um, I guess my mom could tell from my face that something was off, and she confronted me one night. And let's just say it was a bad night for me that night, and I. I left home and I ran away from home and miscarried a couple of days later. And so it was. It was an awful like road that God redeemed me from. You know, a few months passed and as I was trying to reconcile with my family, I became pregnant again. And my parents found out and threatened that if I didn't abort the baby, they would turn me into immigration for the fraudulent marriage. And, um, between that and they used Islamic teachings. Which site that a baby born out of wedlock is condemned to hell. That's what Islam teaches. Um, and so within a couple of weeks, I just succumbed to the pressure and had an abortion. And Janet, even though as a muslim, I thought I was it was like an act of mercy. I still felt broken. Something broke within me. And not long after that, I was approached by the U.S. marshals, and they were questioning me about the marriage that took place when I was 16. I know, it's so much.

Wow. I'm getting to the attachment.

Wow. I'm getting to the attachment.

But. But I'm thinking, first of all, I'll just pause in the story five seconds. And I don't want to rush this because first of all, I love to hear how people come to faith in Jesus Christ. It's that old, old story, like the hymn says, and nobody should ever get tired of hearing how somebody else comes to faith in Christ. The day the angels sent up a roar. The day your name was written in the Lamb's Book of Life. That's the best story any of us could hear. But I was also thinking, how gracious and merciful and good is our God that you went through this heartbreaking, heart wrenching, horrific, might be so bold, hellish story. And God turns around and you are wounded. He now makes you a wounded comforter with a specialty in dealing with people in trauma. It isn't book learning, it isn't head knowledge. It's I have been there. I know what trauma is, but I also know how to heal through it. And let me tell you how God is so good. His classroom is sometimes as hard, but it is so worth it. So when we come back, I want to go to the rest of the story and I want to pick it up with you talking to the U.S. marshals. I told you I was excited about this conversation. Kenza Haddock is with us, a wonderful author, a fabulous Christian counselor. Her latest book, and this is all tied to secure. Believe me, it's called secure how to have a Healthy Attachment to God. Very important conversation. May you be encouraged as we continue right after this. When your plans collapse, make sure you don't. That's just one of ten powerful principles in this month's truth Tool. The Mediterranean Sea Rules by Robert Morgan draws life changing lessons from Paul's shipwreck recorded in acts. Learn to navigate through the storm with faith and courage. As for your copy of the Mediterranean Sea Rules, when you give a gift of any amount to in the market, call eight 77. Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58 or go to In the market with Janet Parshall. We are visiting with Ken Zadek, who's a licensed professional counselor, supervisor and an accredited clinical trauma specialist with expertise in treating complex mental health conditions through clinical and biblical methods. She's a marvelous speaker and excellent author. Her latest book is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. But I think it's paramount that you understand where Kenza came from, how God is using her to deal with people who have suffered trauma, and how this is all tied to the idea of attachment to God. All of this connects. So I want to go back to exactly where we left off. And that was you had this marriage. It was planting you in the US by having this marriage only on paper. And I was stunned by a couple of things that you said before. Let me just make a quick observation and then pick it up, if you would, where you were. I had never heard before, Kenza, that your mom and your dad can have an impact on your quote unquote, salvation in Islam. Tell me more about that.

But. But I'm thinking, first of all, I'll just pause in the story five seconds. And I don't want to rush this because first of all, I love to hear how people come to faith in Jesus Christ. It's that old, old story, like the hymn says, and nobody should ever get tired of hearing how somebody else comes to faith in Christ. The day the angels sent up a roar. The day your name was written in the Lamb's Book of Life. That's the best story any of us could hear. But I was also thinking, how gracious and merciful and good is our God that you went through this heartbreaking, heart wrenching, horrific, might be so bold, hellish story. And God turns around and you are wounded. He now makes you a wounded comforter with a specialty in dealing with people in trauma. It isn't book learning, it isn't head knowledge. It's I have been there. I know what trauma is, but I also know how to heal through it. And let me tell you how God is so good. His classroom is sometimes as hard, but it is so worth it. So when we come back, I want to go to the rest of the story and I want to pick it up with you talking to the U.S. marshals. I told you I was excited about this conversation. Kenza Haddock is with us, a wonderful author, a fabulous Christian counselor. Her latest book, and this is all tied to secure. Believe me, it's called secure how to have a Healthy Attachment to God. Very important conversation. May you be encouraged as we continue right after this. When your plans collapse, make sure you don't. That's just one of ten powerful principles in this month's truth Tool. The Mediterranean Sea Rules by Robert Morgan draws life changing lessons from Paul's shipwreck recorded in acts. Learn to navigate through the storm with faith and courage. As for your copy of the Mediterranean Sea Rules, when you give a gift of any amount to in the market, call eight 77. Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58 or go to In the market with Janet Parshall. We are visiting with Ken Zadek, who's a licensed professional counselor, supervisor and an accredited clinical trauma specialist with expertise in treating complex mental health conditions through clinical and biblical methods. She's a marvelous speaker and excellent author. Her latest book is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. But I think it's paramount that you understand where Kenza came from, how God is using her to deal with people who have suffered trauma, and how this is all tied to the idea of attachment to God. All of this connects. So I want to go back to exactly where we left off. And that was you had this marriage. It was planting you in the US by having this marriage only on paper. And I was stunned by a couple of things that you said before. Let me just make a quick observation and then pick it up, if you would, where you were. I had never heard before, Kenza, that your mom and your dad can have an impact on your quote unquote, salvation in Islam. Tell me more about that.

Yes, absolutely. So Islam teaches that my identity is tied to my parents. So much so that when I go to write my name, I have to write my last name first, then my first name. And so they talk about, um, basically on Judgment Day, that's what they that's what they see happens whenever we pass away. We go before Allah. And on Judgment Day, if our sins and good works are too close to one another, they're able. My parents are able to influence Allah in his decision as to where he'll send me to heaven or hell. And so that makes it. I mean, it puts a huge burden on the child, even as an adult, to make sure they appease their parents.

Yes, absolutely. So Islam teaches that my identity is tied to my parents. So much so that when I go to write my name, I have to write my last name first, then my first name. And so they talk about, um, basically on Judgment Day, that's what they that's what they see happens whenever we pass away. We go before Allah. And on Judgment Day, if our sins and good works are too close to one another, they're able. My parents are able to influence Allah in his decision as to where he'll send me to heaven or hell. And so that makes it. I mean, it puts a huge burden on the child, even as an adult, to make sure they appease their parents.

Well, and you talk about attachment boy, my mind is just racing to see the impact that could have on somebody's mental health. To think that not only are your parents the disciplinary and the family, but they can determine your salvation for eternity. I mean, that is overwhelming. Okay. So. So finally, you end up with the U.S. Marshal. Tell me what happens in this conversation.

Well, and you talk about attachment boy, my mind is just racing to see the impact that could have on somebody's mental health. To think that not only are your parents the disciplinary and the family, but they can determine your salvation for eternity. I mean, that is overwhelming. Okay. So. So finally, you end up with the U.S. Marshal. Tell me what happens in this conversation.

Yes. So when they showed up, the first thing I thought about was God is punishing me. And when I say God, I mean all of my perspective of God. At the time, I felt like this is him punishing me for everything I had done. And the U.S. marshals were more interested in my parents at the time because the marriage happened when I was underage, but.

Yes. So when they showed up, the first thing I thought about was God is punishing me. And when I say God, I mean all of my perspective of God. At the time, I felt like this is him punishing me for everything I had done. And the U.S. marshals were more interested in my parents at the time because the marriage happened when I was underage, but.

I just.

I just.

Could not give my parents up because in my mind, they were my only chance for retribution on Judgment Day. And so I denied. I mean, I literally I lied to the marshals. I denied that the marriage was fraudulent. And when my parents found out that I was under investigation, they said Allah was punishing me for everything I had done. So even, um, I feel like it reaffirmed my distorted perception still. And so, with my belief that my only hope for eternity in heaven were my parents, especially with my list of sins, I was very I knew that I had sinned against God. Um, I just wouldn't turn them over. And so I was arrested for obstruction of justice along.

Could not give my parents up because in my mind, they were my only chance for retribution on Judgment Day. And so I denied. I mean, I literally I lied to the marshals. I denied that the marriage was fraudulent. And when my parents found out that I was under investigation, they said Allah was punishing me for everything I had done. So even, um, I feel like it reaffirmed my distorted perception still. And so, with my belief that my only hope for eternity in heaven were my parents, especially with my list of sins, I was very I knew that I had sinned against God. Um, I just wouldn't turn them over. And so I was arrested for obstruction of justice along.

With other.

With other.

Charges.

Charges.

Wow. So did you end up getting sentenced as a result of this?

Wow. So did you end up getting sentenced as a result of this?

Absolutely. Yes, I was sentenced. I served around six months in incarceration. And, um, my attorney, the attorney my parents hired at the time, he, um, I pled guilty to obstruction of justice in exchange for my parents to never get prosecuted. And I felt like I was by protecting them. I was sort of making up.

Absolutely. Yes, I was sentenced. I served around six months in incarceration. And, um, my attorney, the attorney my parents hired at the time, he, um, I pled guilty to obstruction of justice in exchange for my parents to never get prosecuted. And I felt like I was by protecting them. I was sort of making up.

For.

For.

All of my sins. I mean, that was my mindset. And so I. Yeah, I was released, placed on deportation proceedings. I had to pay a restitution. And then I just. Three years later, immigration proceedings started, and my attorney at the time said that the only chance I had of remaining in the country was telling the whole truth. And even then, my chances of staying were about 5%. And I figured Janet 5% was better than nothing. So I held on to that hope. Um, I, I told I ran what my attorney said by my parents and they were livid. They said, how dare I make them look bad? And so that was one of the most painful experiences I had in my life, because I was in such a vulnerable state. And I felt like, you know, my parents were just throwing me to the wolves. They were like, just figure it out on your own. And it's like, I didn't even start it.

All of my sins. I mean, that was my mindset. And so I. Yeah, I was released, placed on deportation proceedings. I had to pay a restitution. And then I just. Three years later, immigration proceedings started, and my attorney at the time said that the only chance I had of remaining in the country was telling the whole truth. And even then, my chances of staying were about 5%. And I figured Janet 5% was better than nothing. So I held on to that hope. Um, I, I told I ran what my attorney said by my parents and they were livid. They said, how dare I make them look bad? And so that was one of the most painful experiences I had in my life, because I was in such a vulnerable state. And I felt like, you know, my parents were just throwing me to the wolves. They were like, just figure it out on your own. And it's like, I didn't even start it.

Exactly. But not only that, Kensi, you're you're in a position where you have to make a Hobson's choice, your freedom or your parents. It was like, I can't win either way on this. So how did you finally reach a decision?

Exactly. But not only that, Kensi, you're you're in a position where you have to make a Hobson's choice, your freedom or your parents. It was like, I can't win either way on this. So how did you finally reach a decision?

So thankfully, at the time I was in a relationship with someone, not necessarily a healthy one, but at least I wasn't subjected to my parents influence as much as I would have if I had been living with them. But I still felt like I was between a rock and a hard place. If I tell the truth, I can possibly save myself from an earthly perspective. But because of my list of sins that stacked up against me, I knew I was spiritually bankrupt and I felt like then my parents are not going to to stand up for me in eternal life per se. And so I became so depressed, I experienced suicidal ideations. I thought about ending my life, but my list of sins was so long. I remember one night it was my list of sins was so long I knew I was spiritually bankrupt and that if I went ahead and ended my life, I would end up in hell. And throughout the next couple of weeks, I cried out to God for mercy. And when I say God, I mean whoever was willing to hear me at the time. And that was when around that time is when I had a dream that it was the end times and heaven opened. And in my dream, Janet, I saw a man in a white robe coming down from heaven. And that man was Jesus. And it was it was just incredible because I had been tormented for years, and for the first time I felt this peace that I could, I could not describe.

So thankfully, at the time I was in a relationship with someone, not necessarily a healthy one, but at least I wasn't subjected to my parents influence as much as I would have if I had been living with them. But I still felt like I was between a rock and a hard place. If I tell the truth, I can possibly save myself from an earthly perspective. But because of my list of sins that stacked up against me, I knew I was spiritually bankrupt and I felt like then my parents are not going to to stand up for me in eternal life per se. And so I became so depressed, I experienced suicidal ideations. I thought about ending my life, but my list of sins was so long. I remember one night it was my list of sins was so long I knew I was spiritually bankrupt and that if I went ahead and ended my life, I would end up in hell. And throughout the next couple of weeks, I cried out to God for mercy. And when I say God, I mean whoever was willing to hear me at the time. And that was when around that time is when I had a dream that it was the end times and heaven opened. And in my dream, Janet, I saw a man in a white robe coming down from heaven. And that man was Jesus. And it was it was just incredible because I had been tormented for years, and for the first time I felt this peace that I could, I could not describe.

Wow. All I could think of when you were talking is he's not willing that any should perish, and that he'll use any means to draw people to himself. Yes. Even dreams. And so here is this dream of Jesus coming to you. I want to pick the story up exactly at that point because And it's just amazing that you weren't saying, okay, that's it. I don't want anything to do with Allah. I don't want anything to do with God. In fact, I don't want anything to do with religion at all. It's tied me up into an emotional and mental pretzel to the point where I want to end my own life. I don't want anything at all. But that is not how you reacted. I want to dig deeper into how you did respond to who you saw in that dream. When we return, Ken Haddock is with us. Marvelous speaker and author and a compassionate licensed professional Christian counselor back after this. Ken Haddock is with us. She and her husband, by the way, own Oceanic Counseling Group, which is an outpatient mental health agency that's headquartered in South Carolina. Wonderful author. Her latest book is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God, and our story is leading to that point. So you have this marvelous dream you cried out to who was ever there. And the God who is there did in fact respond. This gets to the idea of getting attached. So you dream about Jesus. What happens then? I mean, because this is antithetical to everything you ever knew, everything you've ever experienced, all of a sudden, there he is. But in some respects, he's wonderfully dangerous. Talk to me about this.

Wow. All I could think of when you were talking is he's not willing that any should perish, and that he'll use any means to draw people to himself. Yes. Even dreams. And so here is this dream of Jesus coming to you. I want to pick the story up exactly at that point because And it's just amazing that you weren't saying, okay, that's it. I don't want anything to do with Allah. I don't want anything to do with God. In fact, I don't want anything to do with religion at all. It's tied me up into an emotional and mental pretzel to the point where I want to end my own life. I don't want anything at all. But that is not how you reacted. I want to dig deeper into how you did respond to who you saw in that dream. When we return, Ken Haddock is with us. Marvelous speaker and author and a compassionate licensed professional Christian counselor back after this. Ken Haddock is with us. She and her husband, by the way, own Oceanic Counseling Group, which is an outpatient mental health agency that's headquartered in South Carolina. Wonderful author. Her latest book is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God, and our story is leading to that point. So you have this marvelous dream you cried out to who was ever there. And the God who is there did in fact respond. This gets to the idea of getting attached. So you dream about Jesus. What happens then? I mean, because this is antithetical to everything you ever knew, everything you've ever experienced, all of a sudden, there he is. But in some respects, he's wonderfully dangerous. Talk to me about this.

Absolutely. You know, I wish I could tell you, I. I saw him and was excited and gave my life to Jesus, and it was great. The issue that I think, I think is so important that we as believers, even even remember that we're still we still have a nervous system, right? And so I saw the God who answered me, but I still didn't trust him. It took years for me to to actually develop a healthy relationship with with God. But it started with that first step. And that first step for me was trying to figure out what does this dream mean? Because yes, it was the complete opposite of what I grew up with. I grew up believing that Jesus is just a prophet. There is, you know, God doesn't have a son. And so I understood that making that decision meant that I needed to start my life from scratch, even from a safety perspective. So it took about 8 to 10 months for me to to know for sure. Okay. I'm just wound up the courage and say, okay, I'm moving to South Carolina for safety reasons. Um, getting away from family. And I'm just going to discover who Jesus is. And that's what I did. I moved to South Carolina, gave my life to Jesus, and it's incredible just how God fathers us. I mean, I moved, I didn't have anyone there, and he provided people for me for every aspect of it. Even gave me a place to live with a woman who let me stay with her while I was getting on my feet. And I mean, he provided me with a wonderful husband, and now I'm not. I'm not saying it was linear. Obviously it was not linear because God's love is enduring and he is. He is so patient with us. But I definitely didn't start out life just running to the throne of grace. I was more so tiptoeing around God because my my understanding of him and my attachment to him was so disorganized. That's what we call it in mental health. It's disorganized. Meaning, like I saw him as powerful, but I was not confident in his love for me and that that made me anxious.

Absolutely. You know, I wish I could tell you, I. I saw him and was excited and gave my life to Jesus, and it was great. The issue that I think, I think is so important that we as believers, even even remember that we're still we still have a nervous system, right? And so I saw the God who answered me, but I still didn't trust him. It took years for me to to actually develop a healthy relationship with with God. But it started with that first step. And that first step for me was trying to figure out what does this dream mean? Because yes, it was the complete opposite of what I grew up with. I grew up believing that Jesus is just a prophet. There is, you know, God doesn't have a son. And so I understood that making that decision meant that I needed to start my life from scratch, even from a safety perspective. So it took about 8 to 10 months for me to to know for sure. Okay. I'm just wound up the courage and say, okay, I'm moving to South Carolina for safety reasons. Um, getting away from family. And I'm just going to discover who Jesus is. And that's what I did. I moved to South Carolina, gave my life to Jesus, and it's incredible just how God fathers us. I mean, I moved, I didn't have anyone there, and he provided people for me for every aspect of it. Even gave me a place to live with a woman who let me stay with her while I was getting on my feet. And I mean, he provided me with a wonderful husband, and now I'm not. I'm not saying it was linear. Obviously it was not linear because God's love is enduring and he is. He is so patient with us. But I definitely didn't start out life just running to the throne of grace. I was more so tiptoeing around God because my my understanding of him and my attachment to him was so disorganized. That's what we call it in mental health. It's disorganized. Meaning, like I saw him as powerful, but I was not confident in his love for me and that that made me anxious.

You used the word and what a. I'm so grateful that you really just felt the tugging from the Holy Spirit to tell your story like this. Because it's so important, not only for people listening all across the country who are at various places in their relationship with the Lord and perhaps don't yet know him as Lord and Savior, and hearing your story is so powerful to see what God can do and how he rescues and redeems and restores and does that so well. But this takes us to this whole idea of attachment. There was a brutal God in Islam. No matter what you did, you had to try to earn your salvation. Your parents end up playing a role in that. This side of eternity, that side of eternity. You're forced into a false relationship in order to sort of skirt the law. And so I can see why you would have said you would have tiptoed rather than run to his everlasting arms of love. So back this up just a little bit for people who don't live in your world, what does the word attachment mean? Because you didn't superglue yourself to God right away? It took a while to get there. So in your world, what does the word attachment mean?

You used the word and what a. I'm so grateful that you really just felt the tugging from the Holy Spirit to tell your story like this. Because it's so important, not only for people listening all across the country who are at various places in their relationship with the Lord and perhaps don't yet know him as Lord and Savior, and hearing your story is so powerful to see what God can do and how he rescues and redeems and restores and does that so well. But this takes us to this whole idea of attachment. There was a brutal God in Islam. No matter what you did, you had to try to earn your salvation. Your parents end up playing a role in that. This side of eternity, that side of eternity. You're forced into a false relationship in order to sort of skirt the law. And so I can see why you would have said you would have tiptoed rather than run to his everlasting arms of love. So back this up just a little bit for people who don't live in your world, what does the word attachment mean? Because you didn't superglue yourself to God right away? It took a while to get there. So in your world, what does the word attachment mean?

Attachment. So the Lord made us for relationships with with him and with one another. And attachment means that bond that we develop with God in order for us to feel whole. And so what happens when we don't develop that healthy attachment or that relationship, that healthy relationship, or that bond with God, because we are still made for relationships? We start attaching ourselves to other people, or we try to find our identity in work or something else. And the problem is anyone or anything else that's a substitute to a loving, powerful, sovereign God is going to fail us. And that's what starts that dynamic of or we call it the crazy cycle of anxiety and depression. It's inner turmoil. And so what I found is really what keeps us from developing a healthy relationship with God is we hold misperceptions of him. Yes, we do. And and we're not willing to investigate those misperceptions. We're not willing to say, you know what? Okay, let me find out who God is. For myself, outside of my relationship with my parents, outside of what other people portrayed him to be like. I need to find out for myself if he is truly a loving God. Because yes, and I'll stop right there really quick. So many people that I have treated believe in the power of God. They do. They believe he's sovereign, but they don't believe he's loving. And that's what keeps them from developing an attachment.

Attachment. So the Lord made us for relationships with with him and with one another. And attachment means that bond that we develop with God in order for us to feel whole. And so what happens when we don't develop that healthy attachment or that relationship, that healthy relationship, or that bond with God, because we are still made for relationships? We start attaching ourselves to other people, or we try to find our identity in work or something else. And the problem is anyone or anything else that's a substitute to a loving, powerful, sovereign God is going to fail us. And that's what starts that dynamic of or we call it the crazy cycle of anxiety and depression. It's inner turmoil. And so what I found is really what keeps us from developing a healthy relationship with God is we hold misperceptions of him. Yes, we do. And and we're not willing to investigate those misperceptions. We're not willing to say, you know what? Okay, let me find out who God is. For myself, outside of my relationship with my parents, outside of what other people portrayed him to be like. I need to find out for myself if he is truly a loving God. Because yes, and I'll stop right there really quick. So many people that I have treated believe in the power of God. They do. They believe he's sovereign, but they don't believe he's loving. And that's what keeps them from developing an attachment.

Oh, this is such rich, fertile field. Let me linger here a little bit. So not just your experience, but I bet for so many people listening right now, I don't know why it is and why we're kind of hardwired to do this, but we tend to superimpose on God. Whatever the impression of our parent, particularly our father, is to us. So if he's an absentee dad, he's an absentee God. If he's a disciplinarian, a harsh disciplinarian, then he's a cosmic bully playing whack a mole with us at every turn. Um, if he's an angry God, then the God of all creation is an angry God as well. And so I loved what you said because it's so insightful, which is why don't we examine where we're getting those ideas from? And the best way to do that is to open His word and let God reveal himself to you. So I want to pick it up at exactly that point when we get back, because this is really I mean, I want to have this rich, deep relationship with him, but I, I understand that sometimes I have to take out the hedge trimmers and trim away the bramble bushes that keep me from having that healthy, secure attachment to a God who loves me always and forever. Ken Haddock is with us. Her new book is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. It's a small book, but it's a powerful book and there's so much to cover. We'll continue right after this. Going through life with the Bible in one hand and the newspaper in the other is essential for each of us in our walk with Christ. And that's what we do on in the market. We examine culture, interpret the headlines and look at the news from a biblical perspective. When you become a partial partner, you're directly responsible for putting this program on the air. Reaching men and women across America with the practical application of God's Word. Become a partial partner today by calling 877 Janet 58 or go to in the market with Janet Parshall. It is so good to have Ken Haddock on the program, a licensed professional counselor supervisor and an accredited clinical trauma specialist with expertise in treating complex mental health conditions through both clinical and biblical methods. Kenseth speaks at conferences and churches. She's interviewed all the time, and she and her husband own Oceanic Counseling Group, which is an outpatient mental health agency that's located in South Carolina. She's written two previous books, The Three Enemies of Your Mental Health and the Ex-Muslims Guide to Christianity. And you got a little sneak peek into that as you heard part of her testimony. Her latest book and her testimony leads us right to this book is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. So we just recognized before the break this reality for right or wrong, we tend to superimpose on God an image of our parents, particularly our dad, and whatever outstanding definer of our dad is the outstanding definer for God. You challenged us rightfully to say, wait a minute, go back and start looking at some of those myths and do that by examining the Word of God in this process of trying to figure out how I can feel secure in my relationship to God, or to have a healthy attachment, as you put it. You write that we all have a different attachment style. Talk to me a little bit about those styles.

Oh, this is such rich, fertile field. Let me linger here a little bit. So not just your experience, but I bet for so many people listening right now, I don't know why it is and why we're kind of hardwired to do this, but we tend to superimpose on God. Whatever the impression of our parent, particularly our father, is to us. So if he's an absentee dad, he's an absentee God. If he's a disciplinarian, a harsh disciplinarian, then he's a cosmic bully playing whack a mole with us at every turn. Um, if he's an angry God, then the God of all creation is an angry God as well. And so I loved what you said because it's so insightful, which is why don't we examine where we're getting those ideas from? And the best way to do that is to open His word and let God reveal himself to you. So I want to pick it up at exactly that point when we get back, because this is really I mean, I want to have this rich, deep relationship with him, but I, I understand that sometimes I have to take out the hedge trimmers and trim away the bramble bushes that keep me from having that healthy, secure attachment to a God who loves me always and forever. Ken Haddock is with us. Her new book is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. It's a small book, but it's a powerful book and there's so much to cover. We'll continue right after this. Going through life with the Bible in one hand and the newspaper in the other is essential for each of us in our walk with Christ. And that's what we do on in the market. We examine culture, interpret the headlines and look at the news from a biblical perspective. When you become a partial partner, you're directly responsible for putting this program on the air. Reaching men and women across America with the practical application of God's Word. Become a partial partner today by calling 877 Janet 58 or go to in the market with Janet Parshall. It is so good to have Ken Haddock on the program, a licensed professional counselor supervisor and an accredited clinical trauma specialist with expertise in treating complex mental health conditions through both clinical and biblical methods. Kenseth speaks at conferences and churches. She's interviewed all the time, and she and her husband own Oceanic Counseling Group, which is an outpatient mental health agency that's located in South Carolina. She's written two previous books, The Three Enemies of Your Mental Health and the Ex-Muslims Guide to Christianity. And you got a little sneak peek into that as you heard part of her testimony. Her latest book and her testimony leads us right to this book is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. So we just recognized before the break this reality for right or wrong, we tend to superimpose on God an image of our parents, particularly our dad, and whatever outstanding definer of our dad is the outstanding definer for God. You challenged us rightfully to say, wait a minute, go back and start looking at some of those myths and do that by examining the Word of God in this process of trying to figure out how I can feel secure in my relationship to God, or to have a healthy attachment, as you put it. You write that we all have a different attachment style. Talk to me a little bit about those styles.

Yes, absolutely. So we have dependent on the way our authority figures were. We can develop a different attachment style. And so for example, we can be anxious around God. If we had a parent who was very intrusive or clingy or we felt, for example, guilty for wanting to be independent, then as a result, we're going to feel like God is controlling. Or maybe there was a ton of emphasis on performance, or maybe the authority figure or parent lived through you, or vicariously through you, or maybe the parent's anxiety transmitted to you. That's how we develop an anxious attachment. And so when we feel anxious around God, we're sort of feeling like walking around on eggshells, feeling like God is disappointed with me. God expects me to be perfect. Jenny, I've even had someone misquote scripture, and I mean, they didn't know that. But they said, doesn't it say you need to be perfect like your Heavenly father is perfect? And I said that. But that's not that's not the context of that.

Yes, absolutely. So we have dependent on the way our authority figures were. We can develop a different attachment style. And so for example, we can be anxious around God. If we had a parent who was very intrusive or clingy or we felt, for example, guilty for wanting to be independent, then as a result, we're going to feel like God is controlling. Or maybe there was a ton of emphasis on performance, or maybe the authority figure or parent lived through you, or vicariously through you, or maybe the parent's anxiety transmitted to you. That's how we develop an anxious attachment. And so when we feel anxious around God, we're sort of feeling like walking around on eggshells, feeling like God is disappointed with me. God expects me to be perfect. Jenny, I've even had someone misquote scripture, and I mean, they didn't know that. But they said, doesn't it say you need to be perfect like your Heavenly father is perfect? And I said that. But that's not that's not the context of that.

That's right.

That's right.

The context of it is not that we're supposed to be perfect and not get anything wrong. The context of it was forgiveness, which he he he enables us to. And so that's anxious attachment. The. The other attachment is when we have a distant parent that's more like the avoidant attachment. That parent is unavailable to comfort us or they you feel like your feelings were minimized or not validated growing up. So then you grow up doubting your reality, or you wonder if if you need to just keep repressing your emotions. And so the parent maybe was annoyed with you when you needed their help. And so you grow up with the idea that asking for help is wrong and or that it makes you look needy. And therefore, you know, when God says, come to me, you doubt and you think, no, no, God wants me to have it all together. Those are the main two. Now the third one, disorganized attachment is when we have. I've seen it a lot when we have one parent who leans on one end who's like overly, um, maybe enmeshed or intrusive, and the other parents is just checked out. Um, and that's what I've seen a lot. And so then you have those two misperceptions of God together. And so, you know, you don't know if God is is going to be upset with you one day or if he's going to be happy with you.

The context of it is not that we're supposed to be perfect and not get anything wrong. The context of it was forgiveness, which he he he enables us to. And so that's anxious attachment. The. The other attachment is when we have a distant parent that's more like the avoidant attachment. That parent is unavailable to comfort us or they you feel like your feelings were minimized or not validated growing up. So then you grow up doubting your reality, or you wonder if if you need to just keep repressing your emotions. And so the parent maybe was annoyed with you when you needed their help. And so you grow up with the idea that asking for help is wrong and or that it makes you look needy. And therefore, you know, when God says, come to me, you doubt and you think, no, no, God wants me to have it all together. Those are the main two. Now the third one, disorganized attachment is when we have. I've seen it a lot when we have one parent who leans on one end who's like overly, um, maybe enmeshed or intrusive, and the other parents is just checked out. Um, and that's what I've seen a lot. And so then you have those two misperceptions of God together. And so, you know, you don't know if God is is going to be upset with you one day or if he's going to be happy with you.

Yeah, exactly. I call it the Lady or the Tiger based on that old story. I mean, you're never quite sure what kind of response you're going to get, which is so interesting. You know, the more you talk, the more I realize the power of a parent. It toughest job in the world. You're not elected. You're appointed to that job. It is on the job training. And as my mama used to say, you are a parent until the day they put you in the ground. And to stop and think. As a parent, I don't know about any other parent out there, but it takes your breath away to think, oh merciful heavens, I could have either drawn my child closer to the Lord or based on the way in which I parented, I could have pushed them away from the Lord or made them anxious about their relationship with the Lord, or made them feel that God was distant. I mean, it's bad enough to think that you've made mistakes as a parent. And note to file, ladies and gentlemen, here's the headline of the day. No perfect parents. Now take a deep breath and relax. But there is a perfect parent. And his name is God. So when we realize what parents can do, particularly in what you do and the work that God has called you to, how do you restore the damage, the bruising that's taking place so often unintentionally? It's just, you know, the old adage you parent the way you were parented. So generations of the way people were parented tend to get passed down. But what I want is to secure relationship with a God who never stops loving me and loves me. Period. Not comma. A bunch of prepositions if, when, but but period. How do you break through the damage of the past to get to that place?

Yeah, exactly. I call it the Lady or the Tiger based on that old story. I mean, you're never quite sure what kind of response you're going to get, which is so interesting. You know, the more you talk, the more I realize the power of a parent. It toughest job in the world. You're not elected. You're appointed to that job. It is on the job training. And as my mama used to say, you are a parent until the day they put you in the ground. And to stop and think. As a parent, I don't know about any other parent out there, but it takes your breath away to think, oh merciful heavens, I could have either drawn my child closer to the Lord or based on the way in which I parented, I could have pushed them away from the Lord or made them anxious about their relationship with the Lord, or made them feel that God was distant. I mean, it's bad enough to think that you've made mistakes as a parent. And note to file, ladies and gentlemen, here's the headline of the day. No perfect parents. Now take a deep breath and relax. But there is a perfect parent. And his name is God. So when we realize what parents can do, particularly in what you do and the work that God has called you to, how do you restore the damage, the bruising that's taking place so often unintentionally? It's just, you know, the old adage you parent the way you were parented. So generations of the way people were parented tend to get passed down. But what I want is to secure relationship with a God who never stops loving me and loves me. Period. Not comma. A bunch of prepositions if, when, but but period. How do you break through the damage of the past to get to that place?

I love that, and you know, you touched on it a little bit earlier and that is going to the Word of God. We have to go to the Word of God. And this is not just being hyper spiritual.

I love that, and you know, you touched on it a little bit earlier and that is going to the Word of God. We have to go to the Word of God. And this is not just being hyper spiritual.

This is critical because.

This is critical because.

Because God created us with billions of nerve cells that are actively working to make new connections in our brain. So the more truth you learn about these important these topics, the more just for example, in my life, the more I I read Scripture and I saw that God is truly faithful. God is loving. When God says he's going to do something, he comes through on his promise. What happens? There's a concept in clinical psychology called neuroplasticity. My brain starts renewing the idea in the perspective. It's perspective on God. And that's what renewing our mind is God. When God gave us that verse, he knew how he created us. Now it doesn't take one week or two weeks. It takes persistence. I mean, it takes persistent work. It takes us approaching God and and establishing that emotional safety. And it's a it's a multi-step process, but it starts with getting to know the word of God and establishing emotional safety. And what I mean by that is just talk to God about your day. You know, for example, I can tell, you know, today I talked to a Janet, today I did x, Y, and Z. We don't have to approach God with only big matters. Practice talking to him about your day to day and that helps. Let your guard down. That's that's the first step.

Because God created us with billions of nerve cells that are actively working to make new connections in our brain. So the more truth you learn about these important these topics, the more just for example, in my life, the more I I read Scripture and I saw that God is truly faithful. God is loving. When God says he's going to do something, he comes through on his promise. What happens? There's a concept in clinical psychology called neuroplasticity. My brain starts renewing the idea in the perspective. It's perspective on God. And that's what renewing our mind is God. When God gave us that verse, he knew how he created us. Now it doesn't take one week or two weeks. It takes persistence. I mean, it takes persistent work. It takes us approaching God and and establishing that emotional safety. And it's a it's a multi-step process, but it starts with getting to know the word of God and establishing emotional safety. And what I mean by that is just talk to God about your day. You know, for example, I can tell, you know, today I talked to a Janet, today I did x, Y, and Z. We don't have to approach God with only big matters. Practice talking to him about your day to day and that helps. Let your guard down. That's that's the first step.

Oh, can we linger here? Because this is such a good point. You know, again, I think so often we adhere to tradition and ritual as opposed to the breathing aspects of the Word of God. It is a relationship predicated on love. That's the cornerstone of everything about Christianity, a relationship built on love. So I love the idea about talking to him. You know, I, I have this saying that in my life. Well, I'll say amen at the end of my prayers. I know that the final amen is stated in his presence. So talking to him all day long about all kinds of things. Lord, I'm feeling anxious right now. Lord, I'm worried about this. Lord, thank you for this, Lord. And that constant ongoing communication. And that's what I would do to a human being I wanted to develop a relationship with. It seems to me that there might be some emotional, mental and spiritual health and having that ongoing conversation with my father as well, without thinking, ritualistic. Oh no, no, no, wait a minute. You know he's the king of all creation. Yes, he is that. But he's also ABBA, father. And therein lies the friction, I think we think that we can't have an intimate relationship with the King of creation. Those are like one of these things is not like the other, right?

Oh, can we linger here? Because this is such a good point. You know, again, I think so often we adhere to tradition and ritual as opposed to the breathing aspects of the Word of God. It is a relationship predicated on love. That's the cornerstone of everything about Christianity, a relationship built on love. So I love the idea about talking to him. You know, I, I have this saying that in my life. Well, I'll say amen at the end of my prayers. I know that the final amen is stated in his presence. So talking to him all day long about all kinds of things. Lord, I'm feeling anxious right now. Lord, I'm worried about this. Lord, thank you for this, Lord. And that constant ongoing communication. And that's what I would do to a human being I wanted to develop a relationship with. It seems to me that there might be some emotional, mental and spiritual health and having that ongoing conversation with my father as well, without thinking, ritualistic. Oh no, no, no, wait a minute. You know he's the king of all creation. Yes, he is that. But he's also ABBA, father. And therein lies the friction, I think we think that we can't have an intimate relationship with the King of creation. Those are like one of these things is not like the other, right?

Absolutely, absolutely. We look at it as if he is sovereign. Then he must be distant.

Absolutely, absolutely. We look at it as if he is sovereign. Then he must be distant.

And that's that's not true.

And that's that's not true.

Absolutely. Yes. That is I mean, you nailed that. And that is the number one just threshold that we have to cross. And then after that we have to start developing transparency. It's it's so we can't we can't go from giving our lives to Jesus or just being so closed off with God to saying, okay, I'm just going to develop a healthy attachment with him in one week. No. It takes time for your brain to for your nervous system to calm down around God. And you mentioned something earlier about intimacy. You know, there is something that I have have asked my patients to do, and I try to do it as much as I as I can every morning, first thing in the morning, instead of waking up and checking our emails and and skyrocketing our dopamine, the first thing we can do is just take five minutes and say, and just thank God for everything that he has given you. Lord, thank you for my children. Or Lord, thank you for the roof over my head. Thank you that I have a bed to sleep on, just things like that. And here's the thing we can always find something to thank God for. Here's why this is important. As we develop a healthy relationship with God, as we thank him, our body literally starts in our mind, starts bringing to mind things that we are grateful for, and our body releases serotonin. And that's the happy hormone. So our body from a clinical perspective releases serotonin, which is a natural antidepressant from a spiritual perspective. The Word of God says that God his presence inhabits the praises of his people. And so right there, first thing in the morning, you're inviting God's presence into your day. And so rather than checking our emails and I know, I know, it's so hard.

Absolutely. Yes. That is I mean, you nailed that. And that is the number one just threshold that we have to cross. And then after that we have to start developing transparency. It's it's so we can't we can't go from giving our lives to Jesus or just being so closed off with God to saying, okay, I'm just going to develop a healthy attachment with him in one week. No. It takes time for your brain to for your nervous system to calm down around God. And you mentioned something earlier about intimacy. You know, there is something that I have have asked my patients to do, and I try to do it as much as I as I can every morning, first thing in the morning, instead of waking up and checking our emails and and skyrocketing our dopamine, the first thing we can do is just take five minutes and say, and just thank God for everything that he has given you. Lord, thank you for my children. Or Lord, thank you for the roof over my head. Thank you that I have a bed to sleep on, just things like that. And here's the thing we can always find something to thank God for. Here's why this is important. As we develop a healthy relationship with God, as we thank him, our body literally starts in our mind, starts bringing to mind things that we are grateful for, and our body releases serotonin. And that's the happy hormone. So our body from a clinical perspective releases serotonin, which is a natural antidepressant from a spiritual perspective. The Word of God says that God his presence inhabits the praises of his people. And so right there, first thing in the morning, you're inviting God's presence into your day. And so rather than checking our emails and I know, I know, it's so hard.

To invite God's presence first thing.

To invite God's presence first thing.

But I love the fact that you pointed out the physiology. In fact, I just think just bigger picture, wide angle lens for a minute. I love it when science affirms what the Bible has already told us. And I think the best mental health book out there is the Word of God. So this idea of being anxious for nothing, but with prayer and supplication and thanksgiving, you just gave us an example of early morning thanksgiving prayers. Let your requests be made known unto God. Not only am I stepping into obedience from a loving father who tells me about my relationship with him, but my brain is being rewired. I'm releasing the good stuff in my body. I mean all of the facts that we are fearfully and wonderfully made. I think we do ourselves a disservice by just narrowing applying that to the pro-life movement 100%. It should be applied there, but the magnificence of who we are and how God made us is almost beyond human comprehension. Just starting the day with thanksgiving begins to change who you are physiologically, emotionally, mentally, and most assuredly spiritually. You know the book, this latest book that Kent has authored is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. It's a small book. I haven't scratched the surface. So small but mighty. I would say more after this. Kenzie is with us. Christian author, licensed professional counselor, board certified counselor, co-owner of Oceanic Counseling Group in South Carolina along with her husband. The latest book that she's authored, Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. And I meant what I said just before the break. Small but mighty. There is so much in here. And this is this is a crucial issue. Kenzie. You probably know this more than me. This is just me, battered and bruised and my years of walking the Pilgrim's Progress path. But so many people, if their relationship with their earthly dad was good, that's odds are they got a great relationship with their Heavenly Father. If they've got any kinds of problems, it keeps them far away, close distance, fearful. I mean, it's just so sad because it can be so much richer and so much better. You point out in the book that God is a merciful judge. God is a faithful friend. God is a loving father. OOP! Let me hit the brakes right there. You said something. I want to underscore again that this isn't a two week crash course. This can be a lifetime of having to repair and rebuild and restore. If your daddy wasn't loving, your earthly daddy wasn't loving, how in the world can you even begin to conceptualize what it means to have a Heavenly Father as being loving?

But I love the fact that you pointed out the physiology. In fact, I just think just bigger picture, wide angle lens for a minute. I love it when science affirms what the Bible has already told us. And I think the best mental health book out there is the Word of God. So this idea of being anxious for nothing, but with prayer and supplication and thanksgiving, you just gave us an example of early morning thanksgiving prayers. Let your requests be made known unto God. Not only am I stepping into obedience from a loving father who tells me about my relationship with him, but my brain is being rewired. I'm releasing the good stuff in my body. I mean all of the facts that we are fearfully and wonderfully made. I think we do ourselves a disservice by just narrowing applying that to the pro-life movement 100%. It should be applied there, but the magnificence of who we are and how God made us is almost beyond human comprehension. Just starting the day with thanksgiving begins to change who you are physiologically, emotionally, mentally, and most assuredly spiritually. You know the book, this latest book that Kent has authored is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. It's a small book. I haven't scratched the surface. So small but mighty. I would say more after this. Kenzie is with us. Christian author, licensed professional counselor, board certified counselor, co-owner of Oceanic Counseling Group in South Carolina along with her husband. The latest book that she's authored, Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. And I meant what I said just before the break. Small but mighty. There is so much in here. And this is this is a crucial issue. Kenzie. You probably know this more than me. This is just me, battered and bruised and my years of walking the Pilgrim's Progress path. But so many people, if their relationship with their earthly dad was good, that's odds are they got a great relationship with their Heavenly Father. If they've got any kinds of problems, it keeps them far away, close distance, fearful. I mean, it's just so sad because it can be so much richer and so much better. You point out in the book that God is a merciful judge. God is a faithful friend. God is a loving father. OOP! Let me hit the brakes right there. You said something. I want to underscore again that this isn't a two week crash course. This can be a lifetime of having to repair and rebuild and restore. If your daddy wasn't loving, your earthly daddy wasn't loving, how in the world can you even begin to conceptualize what it means to have a Heavenly Father as being loving?

Yes, yes. So it goes back to spending time with God and just investing that time with him because it's going, listen, it's going to be scary in the beginning. I can tell you from experience, there were many times when I was trying to practice transparency with God, just picking one thing that was weighing me down, for example, whether it was shame from my past or a burden I was carrying and talking to God about it. And Janet, I mean, I am embarrassed to say that it took years because there were times when I would tell him and then I would wait for like, something to strike me down or someone. I mean, I was so scared. That's how petrified I was of God. And so but by practicing and and just talking to him, I started feeling seen and feeling heard and truly appropriating God's Word. You know, when he says that he delights over us with singing, that.

Yes, yes. So it goes back to spending time with God and just investing that time with him because it's going, listen, it's going to be scary in the beginning. I can tell you from experience, there were many times when I was trying to practice transparency with God, just picking one thing that was weighing me down, for example, whether it was shame from my past or a burden I was carrying and talking to God about it. And Janet, I mean, I am embarrassed to say that it took years because there were times when I would tell him and then I would wait for like, something to strike me down or someone. I mean, I was so scared. That's how petrified I was of God. And so but by practicing and and just talking to him, I started feeling seen and feeling heard and truly appropriating God's Word. You know, when he says that he delights over us with singing, that.

He loves us with.

He loves us with.

Everlasting love. But see some. In the beginning those words were just going in one ear and out the other, until I took a step of faith and started sharing my heart with him. And and I know that he knows it already. But it's so important that we that we talk to him and share our hearts with him. Because that's how over time, we learn to to discern his presence and just and just feel seen and heard.

Everlasting love. But see some. In the beginning those words were just going in one ear and out the other, until I took a step of faith and started sharing my heart with him. And and I know that he knows it already. But it's so important that we that we talk to him and share our hearts with him. Because that's how over time, we learn to to discern his presence and just and just feel seen and heard.

Yeah. Amen. And the transparency is such a key issue. You know, he's God. We are not. He already knows. So what do we think we're hiding from God? It's so. He must laugh at us so many times thinking, I'm God, I know you. I knew you before time began. All right? I know exactly what's going on. You know, you write that God pursues us. He calls us to himself. He redeems us. He welcomes us in our mess. He gives us worth that no one can ever take away from us. I love the way you wrote that and then gave scripture for every single one of those. But here's the amazing part there's not a single mortal. Not your husband to you. Not my husband to me. No mortal can do this. As much as we might love our spouse. God loves us. In a deeper, broader Romans talks about this. You know, the magnificence of God, the width, the depth, the breadth. So it really, when you think about it, I've got a mortal's mind. I'm trying to comprehend the utterly incomprehensible. And for some people it's like I have that's mental, emotional and spiritual fatigue. I can't I can't even go to that exercise because it's too big for me to comprehend. Give a word of encouragement to people who have thought that, because I know that there are people who throw in the towel before they even run the race because they're thinking, I can't, I don't, I don't, I'm afraid I can't trust, I don't know, real love. And I'm supposed to believe this unseen God loves me, pursues me, calls me to himself. I don't know, it's just too big for me to comprehend. What would you say to that person?

Yeah. Amen. And the transparency is such a key issue. You know, he's God. We are not. He already knows. So what do we think we're hiding from God? It's so. He must laugh at us so many times thinking, I'm God, I know you. I knew you before time began. All right? I know exactly what's going on. You know, you write that God pursues us. He calls us to himself. He redeems us. He welcomes us in our mess. He gives us worth that no one can ever take away from us. I love the way you wrote that and then gave scripture for every single one of those. But here's the amazing part there's not a single mortal. Not your husband to you. Not my husband to me. No mortal can do this. As much as we might love our spouse. God loves us. In a deeper, broader Romans talks about this. You know, the magnificence of God, the width, the depth, the breadth. So it really, when you think about it, I've got a mortal's mind. I'm trying to comprehend the utterly incomprehensible. And for some people it's like I have that's mental, emotional and spiritual fatigue. I can't I can't even go to that exercise because it's too big for me to comprehend. Give a word of encouragement to people who have thought that, because I know that there are people who throw in the towel before they even run the race because they're thinking, I can't, I don't, I don't, I'm afraid I can't trust, I don't know, real love. And I'm supposed to believe this unseen God loves me, pursues me, calls me to himself. I don't know, it's just too big for me to comprehend. What would you say to that person?

I would say it goes back to feeling unworthy of it. And here's the great thing that I've had to learn in my pride, putting my pride down. None of us are worthy of it. And that's the great thing. Because if we were, then we would have to maintain it. None of us were worthy of it to begin with. He's just a loving God. He's a loving father. I mean, even Romans 832 said he didn't spare his own son. He delivered him up for us all. And so how can he not also with him give us all things? And so he loved you that much, and he loves you that much. And he loves me that much. He continuously pursues us. And a lot of times also, it comes down to not being willing to process through pain that we still don't understand with God. And I would say, go to him and talk to him about that pain. Is he going to give you a reason why it happened? Maybe. Maybe not. But what you'll come out with is peace that surpasses understanding. Because he is the Prince of Peace. He knows how he made your heart. He knows how to pick up every piece and put it together in his presence. Because at the end of the day, when we're in the midst of his presence, reading His Word and seeing just how faithful he is, nothing else matters.

I would say it goes back to feeling unworthy of it. And here's the great thing that I've had to learn in my pride, putting my pride down. None of us are worthy of it. And that's the great thing. Because if we were, then we would have to maintain it. None of us were worthy of it to begin with. He's just a loving God. He's a loving father. I mean, even Romans 832 said he didn't spare his own son. He delivered him up for us all. And so how can he not also with him give us all things? And so he loved you that much, and he loves you that much. And he loves me that much. He continuously pursues us. And a lot of times also, it comes down to not being willing to process through pain that we still don't understand with God. And I would say, go to him and talk to him about that pain. Is he going to give you a reason why it happened? Maybe. Maybe not. But what you'll come out with is peace that surpasses understanding. Because he is the Prince of Peace. He knows how he made your heart. He knows how to pick up every piece and put it together in his presence. Because at the end of the day, when we're in the midst of his presence, reading His Word and seeing just how faithful he is, nothing else matters.

Amen and amen. Years ago, I wrote in my Bible because this goes directly to the point you were just making. Lord, help me to trust you when I cannot see your hand. But I can always trust your heart. So this goes to this idea of letting him lead. You know there is a trust element there. You know, if you look back and you've got brokenness in your relationship with your attachment with other mortals, and you're trying to build this relationship with the great King Immortal himself, there has to be there might be brokenness that takes a long time to repair, but there has to be an element of trust. How do we start to practice trusting him?