You may know her as the Grammy-nominated singer, or for playing the cunning and iconic  Wilhelmina Slater on “Ugly Betty.” But before all that, Vanessa Williams was a bright young college student from New York who would make history as the first Black Miss America, in 1984. And yet before she could complete her term, she would be dramatically dethroned — in a nude photo scandal that would ignite a torrent of racism and see her branded as “the pageant's own Hester Prynn.” In this episode, Jess and Susie revisit the incredible making, and the staggering undoing, of the first Black Miss America.

FOR MORE:
Books: Looking for Miss America: A Pageant’s 100-Year Quest to Define Womanhood, by Margot Mifflin, and There She Was: The Secret History of Miss America, by Amy Artsinger
Articles: Goodbye, Swimsuit Competition. Hello, ‘Miss America 2.0.’ and Here’s What You Didn’t See on Miss America (both New York Times, both by Jess)
Listen: Glamorous Trash, a Celebrity Book Club Podcast, in which Jess and Susie join host Chelsea Devantez to talk about Vanessa Williams’ memoir

You may know her as the Grammy-nominated singer, or for playing the cunning and iconic  Wilhelmina Slater on “Ugly Betty.” But before all that, Vanessa Williams was a bright young college student from New York who would make history as the first Black Miss America, in 1984. And yet before she could complete her term, she would be dramatically dethroned — in a nude photo scandal that would ignite a torrent of racism and see her branded as “the pageant's own Hester Prynn.” In this episode, Jess and Susie revisit the incredible making, and the staggering undoing, of the first Black Miss America.
FOR MORE:
<ul>
<li>Books: <a href="https://margotmifflin.com/looking-for-miss-america/">Looking for Miss America: A Pageant’s 100-Year Quest to Define Womanhood</a>, by Margot Mifflin, and <a href="https://www.amyargetsinger.com/">There She Was: The Secret History of Miss America</a>, by Amy Artsinger</li>
<li>Articles: <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/business/miss-america-bans-swimsuits-metoo.html">Goodbye, Swimsuit Competition. Hello, ‘Miss America 2.0.’</a> and <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/style/miss-america-2019-pageant.html">Here’s What You Didn’t See on Miss America</a> (both New York Times, both by Jess)</li>
<li>Listen: <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/vanessa-williams-memoir-you-have-no-idea-with-susie/id1533722524?i=1000651155965">Glamorous Trash, a Celebrity Book Club Podcast</a>, in which Jess and Susie join host Chelsea Devantez to talk about Vanessa Williams’ memoir</li>
</ul>

Is there a cultural moment from your past that looks different in retrospect? Maybe it’s a scandalous tabloid story seared into your teenage brain or a political punchline that just feels wrong now. It might be a very specific red swimsuit that inspired a decade of plastic surgery (see: “Baywatch”) or the inescapable smell of an entire generation of prepubescent boys (Axe body spray, anyone?). Each week on IN RETROSPECT, Emmy-winning journalist Susie Banikarim and New York Times editor Jessica Bennett revisit a pop culture moment from the 80s and 90s that shaped them — to try to understand what it taught us about the world, and a woman’s place in it.

Talk to us at @inretropod, @susiebnyc and @jessicabennett on Instagram. New episodes each Friday.

Is there a cultural moment from your past that looks different in retrospect? Maybe it’s a scandalous tabloid story seared into your teenage brain or a political punchline that just feels wrong now. It might be a very specific red swimsuit that inspired a decade of plastic surgery (see: “Baywatch”) or the inescapable smell of an entire generation of prepubescent boys (Axe body spray, anyone?). Each week on IN RETROSPECT, Emmy-winning journalist Susie Banikarim and New York Times editor Jessica Bennett revisit a pop culture moment from the 80s and 90s that shaped them — to try to understand what it taught us about the world, and a woman’s place in it.
Talk to us at @inretropod, @susiebnyc and @jessicabennett on Instagram. New episodes each Friday.

In Retrospect with Susie Banikarim and Jessica Bennett

Vanessa Williams v Miss America: The Rise and Fall of the First Black Winner  (Pt 1)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/5cc6013b-6910-4ca4-ba5b-b15d00fa2786/transcript

Since we originally published this episode in May 2024, there has been significant developments for Lyle and Erik Menendez, brothers who were convicted of killing their parents in the early 1990s. On October 24th, Los Angeles District Attorney George Gascón requested that the brothers be resentenced. We are replaying this episode in its entirety because it provides the context you need to understand how we got here.

Lyle and Erik Menendez, two Beverly Hills brothers, were convicted of murdering their parents in a tabloid case that captivated the nation in the 1990s. But in recent years, they have captured the attention of a new generation, becoming unlikely social media stars despite being in prison for the last 34 years. In this episode, Susie and Jess look at the dedicated fan accounts advocating for a new trial and the new evidence that might actually free them.

FOR MORE:
The New Menendez Defenders (The New York Times)
Ex-Member of Menudo Says He Was Raped by Father of the Menendez Brothers (The New York Times)
New evidence may back Menendez brothers’ sexual abuse claims. But can it free them? (The Los Angeles Time)

Since we originally published this episode in May 2024, there has been significant developments for Lyle and Erik Menendez, brothers who were convicted of killing their parents in the early 1990s. On October 24th, Los Angeles District Attorney George Gascón requested that the brothers be resentenced. We are replaying this episode in its entirety because it provides the context you need to understand how we got here.
Lyle and Erik Menendez, two Beverly Hills brothers, were convicted of murdering their parents in a tabloid case that captivated the nation in the 1990s. But in recent years, they have captured the attention of a new generation, becoming unlikely social media stars despite being in prison for the last 34 years. In this episode, Susie and Jess look at the dedicated fan accounts advocating for a new trial and the new evidence that might actually free them.
FOR MORE:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2021%2F02%2F09%2Fstyle%2Fmenendez-brothers-social-media-defenders.html&amp;data=05%7C02%7CDerrickClements%40iheartmedia.com%7C0025b7fc43de49beba3808dcf506dc3c%7C122a527e5b714eba878d9810b495b9e3%7C0%7C0%7C638654657034602821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=UVpHNlhJnfV5D46Gj6YPnBhFCJPGKuDG2GcUMvUjZow%3D&amp;reserved=0">The New Menendez Defenders (The New York Times</a>)</li>
<li><a href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2023%2F04%2F18%2Farts%2Ftelevision%2Fmenendez-brothers-menudo-roy-rossello-documentary.html&amp;data=05%7C02%7CDerrickClements%40iheartmedia.com%7C0025b7fc43de49beba3808dcf506dc3c%7C122a527e5b714eba878d9810b495b9e3%7C0%7C0%7C638654657034626618%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=aYy%2FojEQCnc7NU7mnn4BNPfSq5Q1D%2BG%2FdjGo1W%2BOtHg%3D&amp;reserved=0">Ex-Member of Menudo Says He Was Raped by Father of the Menendez Brothers (The New York Times)</a></li>
<li><a href="https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.latimes.com%2Fcalifornia%2Fstory%2F2023-07-17%2Fmenendez-brothers-vacate-convictions-new-hearing-evidence&amp;data=05%7C02%7CDerrickClements%40iheartmedia.com%7C0025b7fc43de49beba3808dcf506dc3c%7C122a527e5b714eba878d9810b495b9e3%7C0%7C0%7C638654657034644245%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=FQn16%2B5UUxVig6v4Q1NMxBIrnz3Y9gOWzEGIRyY9jPE%3D&amp;reserved=0">New evidence may back Menendez brothers’ sexual abuse claims. But can it free them? (The Los Angeles Time)</a></li>
</ul>

Update: Why the Menendez Brothers May Go Free

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/d0d775fe-0f02-49d1-96f5-b2140155583a/transcript

When Madonna performed “Like A Virgin'' at the first MTV Video Music Awards in 1984, she scandalized the audience and her own team. But she also stole the show, cementing MTV’s place in cultural history. In this episode, Susie and Jess look back at Madonna’s early years in New York, the events that led her to that stage and how she became one of pop's most enduring icons. 

GUESTS:
Mary Gabriel, author of Madonna: A Rebel Life

FOR MORE:
Madonna: Our 1985 Cover Story (Spin)
Madonna’s Celebration Tour Proves She Won’t Quit (NY Times)
Buy Mary Gabriel’s book Madonna: A Rebel Life

When Madonna performed “Like A Virgin'' at the first MTV Video Music Awards in 1984, she scandalized the audience and her own team. But she also stole the show, cementing MTV’s place in cultural history. In this episode, Susie and Jess look back at Madonna’s early years in New York, the events that led her to that stage and how she became one of pop's most enduring icons. 
GUESTS:
<ul>
<li>Mary Gabriel, author of Madonna: A Rebel Life</li>
</ul>
FOR MORE:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.spin.com/featured/madonna-like-a-virgin-may-1985-cover-story-confessions-of-a/">Madonna: Our 1985 Cover Story</a> (Spin)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/16/opinion/madonna-celebration-tour.html">Madonna’s Celebration Tour Proves She Won’t Quit</a> (NY Times)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/mary-gabriel/madonna/9780316456449/">Buy Mary Gabriel’s book Madonna: A Rebel Life</a></li>
</ul>

Madonna and the Making of a Cultural Icon (Pt 2)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/f99c50f2-2825-4032-8374-b187015dd245/transcript

In 1984, a relatively unknown 26-year old Madonna appeared at the first MTV Video Music Awards. Dressed like a rock and roll bride, Madonna sang “Like a Virgin.” The performance was considered so risque, so scandalous that many – including her own manager – predicted it would end her career. But far from stopping her, that moment changed Madonna’s life, transforming her from rising star to pop idol. In this week’s episode, Susie and Jess talk about that iconic performance, the rise of MTV and how together MTV and Madonna were a force that defined 80s pop culture. 

GUESTS:  
Mary Gabriel, author of Madonna: A Rebel Life

FOR MORE:
60 Times Madonna Changed Our Culture (NY Times)
Inside Madonna's Legendary Performance at the First VMAs (Rolling Stone)
Buy Mary Gabriel’s book Madonna: A Rebel Life

In 1984, a relatively unknown 26-year old Madonna appeared at the first MTV Video Music Awards. Dressed like a rock and roll bride, Madonna sang “Like a Virgin.” The performance was considered so risque, so scandalous that many – including her own manager – predicted it would end her career. But far from stopping her, that moment changed Madonna’s life, transforming her from rising star to pop idol. In this week’s episode, Susie and Jess talk about that iconic performance, the rise of MTV and how together MTV and Madonna were a force that defined 80s pop culture. 
GUESTS:  
<ul>
<li>Mary Gabriel, author of Madonna: A Rebel Life</li>
</ul>
FOR MORE:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/16/arts/music/madonna-birthday-impact.html">60 Times Madonna Changed Our Culture</a> (NY Times)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/madonna-vmas-biography-excerpt-1234829918/">Inside Madonna's Legendary Performance at the First VMAs</a> (Rolling Stone)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/mary-gabriel/madonna/9780316456449/">Buy Mary Gabriel’s book Madonna: A Rebel Life</a></li>
</ul>

Madonna And The MTV Moment (Pt 1)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/28b5c862-95e8-49b2-adae-b180017d13ff/transcript

Vanessa Williams v Miss America: The Rise and Fall of the First Black Winner (Pt 1)

In Retrospect with Susie Banikarim and Jessica Bennett

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In Retrospect with Susie Banikarim and Jessica Bennett

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