Hi, I'm Simon.

Hi, I'm Simon.

And I'm Abby, and you're listening to In Plain Sight, a program where we talk to people making a positive impact in the community and disability sector, shining a light on those who might otherwise be hidden in plain sight.

And I'm Abby, and you're listening to In Plain Sight, a program where we talk to people making a positive impact in the community and disability sector, shining a light on those who might otherwise be hidden in plain sight.

And it's our pleasure to bring these really fabulous stories to you on a weekly basis here on Vision Australia Radio. Hi, Abby, how are you?

And it's our pleasure to bring these really fabulous stories to you on a weekly basis here on Vision Australia Radio. Hi, Abby, how are you?

I'm good. Simon, how are you?

I'm good. Simon, how are you?

I'm great. Thanks. I've had a pretty quiet week. Haven't really done much. As you know, I lead a very boring, dull life. And like most people, I watch a lot of television. And my favourite program on television at the minute is Monster Dogs. I've never really had a dog, but I love watching these interactions between these really clever dogs and the trainers and, you know, out and about in rural properties around Australia. What about you, Abby? You had much to do with dogs.

I'm great. Thanks. I've had a pretty quiet week. Haven't really done much. As you know, I lead a very boring, dull life. And like most people, I watch a lot of television. And my favourite program on television at the minute is Monster Dogs. I've never really had a dog, but I love watching these interactions between these really clever dogs and the trainers and, you know, out and about in rural properties around Australia. What about you, Abby? You had much to do with dogs.

Yes, yes. Growing up, I always had two dogs, a cat, and then, like, eight fish. Wow. So I've grown up definitely around having animals. And it's in the family because my sister has her own little farm with, like, I think it's six chihuahuas, three cats, chickens, bunnies and kids. Of course. Wow.

Yes, yes. Growing up, I always had two dogs, a cat, and then, like, eight fish. Wow. So I've grown up definitely around having animals. And it's in the family because my sister has her own little farm with, like, I think it's six chihuahuas, three cats, chickens, bunnies and kids. Of course. Wow.

Okay.

Okay.

So animals are definitely in the family, but currently living in a one bedroom apartment, so I don't have any at the moment, sadly.

So animals are definitely in the family, but currently living in a one bedroom apartment, so I don't have any at the moment, sadly.

Yeah, that is hard in an apartment. Now, the reason we're talking about dogs, because this week our interview is with Matt Wood from Seeing Eye Dog Australia. We'll get to that interview very shortly, and then we'll come back from the interview and we'll have a discussion all about dog guides. So listen on for that and enjoy this interview now with Matt Wood. And we'd like to welcome Matt here in the studio now with us. Thanks, Matt.

Yeah, that is hard in an apartment. Now, the reason we're talking about dogs, because this week our interview is with Matt Wood from Seeing Eye Dog Australia. We'll get to that interview very shortly, and then we'll come back from the interview and we'll have a discussion all about dog guides. So listen on for that and enjoy this interview now with Matt Wood. And we'd like to welcome Matt here in the studio now with us. Thanks, Matt.

Great, Simon. Thanks. Thanks for having me here. It's a pleasure to be here.

Great, Simon. Thanks. Thanks for having me here. It's a pleasure to be here.

Now, we'll start off with the basics. Tell us what a seeing eye dog is and how they sort of work in general.

Now, we'll start off with the basics. Tell us what a seeing eye dog is and how they sort of work in general.

Seeing Eye Dog is a specially bred and trained animal, usually a Labrador or Golden Retriever breed or cross, and the dog is then trained specifically to work with people that have got a vision impairment or blind. And so they've trained in very particular skills with a harness that they wear that the person that walks beside them holds onto the harness, and the dog guides the human anywhere they need to go. So busy, complex environments like shopping centres, train stations, cities, all those sorts of things. So they're pretty clever animals. Yep. And they're bred for that purpose.

Seeing Eye Dog is a specially bred and trained animal, usually a Labrador or Golden Retriever breed or cross, and the dog is then trained specifically to work with people that have got a vision impairment or blind. And so they've trained in very particular skills with a harness that they wear that the person that walks beside them holds onto the harness, and the dog guides the human anywhere they need to go. So busy, complex environments like shopping centres, train stations, cities, all those sorts of things. So they're pretty clever animals. Yep. And they're bred for that purpose.

And Matt, how long have you been a seeing eye dog instructor and a mobility instructor?

And Matt, how long have you been a seeing eye dog instructor and a mobility instructor?

I started with another organization on the East Coast about 15 years ago, and I was an orientation and mobility instructor over there. So that role involves teaching people, again, working with people that are blind and vision impaired, how to get around using a cane or a GPS app or other devices, and things that can help them get around just by themselves independently. And it's all equipment based. As I became more and more fluent and interested in that field, I worked with people that used dogs, and I was never really going to get into the dog world. But the more I worked with these people, the more I realized that was pretty unique and pretty special. So I had a very kind manager that I was working with at the time, who promoted me and put my name forward as a potential dog trainer. And then I went to their school over in Sydney and learned how to be a dog trainer and dog instructor. So that was ten years ago when I started with dogs. Yeah. So came over here two and a half, three years ago and been working with Vision Australia here.

I started with another organization on the East Coast about 15 years ago, and I was an orientation and mobility instructor over there. So that role involves teaching people, again, working with people that are blind and vision impaired, how to get around using a cane or a GPS app or other devices, and things that can help them get around just by themselves independently. And it's all equipment based. As I became more and more fluent and interested in that field, I worked with people that used dogs, and I was never really going to get into the dog world. But the more I worked with these people, the more I realized that was pretty unique and pretty special. So I had a very kind manager that I was working with at the time, who promoted me and put my name forward as a potential dog trainer. And then I went to their school over in Sydney and learned how to be a dog trainer and dog instructor. So that was ten years ago when I started with dogs. Yeah. So came over here two and a half, three years ago and been working with Vision Australia here.

It's great that there is that opportunity and choice for people to choose a dog as their form of mobility assistance.

It's great that there is that opportunity and choice for people to choose a dog as their form of mobility assistance.

Absolutely. Yeah. It's really critical that there's a choice for our clients. There is another school here, Guide Dogs, Western Australia. They've been here quite a long time. They were the original school in Australia. But over the years a lot of the people that lived and got around in Perth decided that they would like to have an alternative as well. So they started going over to Melbourne, where our head centre is at. Our Seeing Eye dog training centre in Melbourne, and they would be matched with a dog and they would train over there and then fly back and they'd use their dog here in Perth. And eventually there was a group of them that thought, well, we need a bit more than just going back and forth to Melbourne and no staff here in Perth at that stage. A few of them got the CEO from Vision Australia to come over to a cafe and they said, look, if we get 3 or 4 people to this cafe to talk to you about having a Vision Australia store and a Vision Australia presence in Perth, that would be great. He said yeah, I'll do that. I'll come over. By the time he came here, the cafe was filled with about 40 people that were really keen to have Vision Australia in Perth and have a dog instructor permanently based here in Perth as well. So from that time around about 2013 or 2015, I think it was there's been a dog instructor based in Perth. Yes. And we've had a store here and we've had staff here as well, and now we've got the radio station. Yep. The store is still operating and the dog program is still operating, so that's fantastic.

Absolutely. Yeah. It's really critical that there's a choice for our clients. There is another school here, Guide Dogs, Western Australia. They've been here quite a long time. They were the original school in Australia. But over the years a lot of the people that lived and got around in Perth decided that they would like to have an alternative as well. So they started going over to Melbourne, where our head centre is at. Our Seeing Eye dog training centre in Melbourne, and they would be matched with a dog and they would train over there and then fly back and they'd use their dog here in Perth. And eventually there was a group of them that thought, well, we need a bit more than just going back and forth to Melbourne and no staff here in Perth at that stage. A few of them got the CEO from Vision Australia to come over to a cafe and they said, look, if we get 3 or 4 people to this cafe to talk to you about having a Vision Australia store and a Vision Australia presence in Perth, that would be great. He said yeah, I'll do that. I'll come over. By the time he came here, the cafe was filled with about 40 people that were really keen to have Vision Australia in Perth and have a dog instructor permanently based here in Perth as well. So from that time around about 2013 or 2015, I think it was there's been a dog instructor based in Perth. Yes. And we've had a store here and we've had staff here as well, and now we've got the radio station. Yep. The store is still operating and the dog program is still operating, so that's fantastic.

Yeah, yeah. And now you mentioned that you were a mobility instructor and now you're a dog instructor. What are the main reasons someone might choose to use a seeing eye dog as their choice of mobility for their vision impairment. Other than using a white cane.

Yeah, yeah. And now you mentioned that you were a mobility instructor and now you're a dog instructor. What are the main reasons someone might choose to use a seeing eye dog as their choice of mobility for their vision impairment. Other than using a white cane.

To the naked eye, or to somebody watching somebody with a cane, or using a dog to get down the street, they look the same. You don't realize that the person with the cane can't see, you know? So let's assume that they're both blind. The person with the cane has to bang everything as they go along the street. So if they're coming up to a bin or a seat or somebody standing in the middle of the footpath or an obstacle, the cane has to hit that obstacle first, and then the person realizes, oh, what's that? And then they have to explore around that. It might be just a pole, it might be the edge of a building or something like that. So they they have to hit everything or find everything with that cane. When you have a dog, the dog does all that work for you. So the dog's thinking ahead, okay. Oh, we've got a pole coming up here. We've got an obstacle coming up here. Where is the biggest gap on either side of that obstacle to get this person around safely. So our dogs are trained if they're working on the. Usually they work on the left side of the human. So then the human will say find the way and. And then the dog goes, oh okay, I need to calculate. I've got to find the biggest gap. And I've also got to. Make sure that the human doesn't bump into that on their right side where there isn't a dog on. That side. So the dog finds that safe way around. So the biggest contrast that people that have a dog. Say is you don't find anything. You just ask the dog, find the door or find the ramp or find whatever. Let's find the cafe. And the dog just takes you down the street to the cafe or to the library or to.

To the naked eye, or to somebody watching somebody with a cane, or using a dog to get down the street, they look the same. You don't realize that the person with the cane can't see, you know? So let's assume that they're both blind. The person with the cane has to bang everything as they go along the street. So if they're coming up to a bin or a seat or somebody standing in the middle of the footpath or an obstacle, the cane has to hit that obstacle first, and then the person realizes, oh, what's that? And then they have to explore around that. It might be just a pole, it might be the edge of a building or something like that. So they they have to hit everything or find everything with that cane. When you have a dog, the dog does all that work for you. So the dog's thinking ahead, okay. Oh, we've got a pole coming up here. We've got an obstacle coming up here. Where is the biggest gap on either side of that obstacle to get this person around safely. So our dogs are trained if they're working on the. Usually they work on the left side of the human. So then the human will say find the way and. And then the dog goes, oh okay, I need to calculate. I've got to find the biggest gap. And I've also got to. Make sure that the human doesn't bump into that on their right side where there isn't a dog on. That side. So the dog finds that safe way around. So the biggest contrast that people that have a dog. Say is you don't find anything. You just ask the dog, find the door or find the ramp or find whatever. Let's find the cafe. And the dog just takes you down the street to the cafe or to the library or to.

Not only once they've found the cafe, they'll find the seat.

Not only once they've found the cafe, they'll find the seat.

That's right.

That's right.

Because you've got an extra. Brain walking alongside you that can help you along. And I'm assuming that it would also be a little. Bit less stressful for someone that is using a dog.

Because you've got an extra. Brain walking alongside you that can help you along. And I'm assuming that it would also be a little. Bit less stressful for someone that is using a dog.

Because.

Because.

Someone that uses a white cane, they have to concentrate so hard and think every little step that they take. For those who don't know, that's why it's important not to interrupt someone with a white cane while they're walking, because it will break their flow.

Someone that uses a white cane, they have to concentrate so hard and think every little step that they take. For those who don't know, that's why it's important not to interrupt someone with a white cane while they're walking, because it will break their flow.

And that's spot on. Exactly right.

And that's spot on. Exactly right.

So it could make things worse instead of helping.

So it could make things worse instead of helping.

And that same piece of advice works for the person working with the dog as well. The dog is doing all that calculating, and the person is feeling what the dog is telling them through their handle, and so they're aware as to where they are on the footpath or coming down the street or down the corridor. And they may have some spatial awareness as well, but the dog is doing all that calculating for them. And then when somebody comes along and says, oh, aren't you beautiful? Oh, you're a lovely puppy. Look at you. And of course the dog is a dog. The first thing. And it's going to then interact with that person that breaks the whole flow of that dog, concentrating as it does for the person with a cane. Well, what did you say? What are you doing? And so the dog then has to focus on what that person is telling them, and the person that the client that's using the dog to get around is then put in danger. So we ask people and we have a label on our harnesses for the dogs that say, please don't distract me, I'm working. So all of those things that talking to the dog or patting it or reaching out to the dog or whistling to the dog, even I've heard people whistle at the dog down the street. That breaks the concentration and the work for the dog, so it puts the human in danger straight away. So I say to everybody, please talk to the human, and likely you're going to get an answer from the human if you start talking to the dog. I don't think I've come across a dog yet that answers anybody.

And that same piece of advice works for the person working with the dog as well. The dog is doing all that calculating, and the person is feeling what the dog is telling them through their handle, and so they're aware as to where they are on the footpath or coming down the street or down the corridor. And they may have some spatial awareness as well, but the dog is doing all that calculating for them. And then when somebody comes along and says, oh, aren't you beautiful? Oh, you're a lovely puppy. Look at you. And of course the dog is a dog. The first thing. And it's going to then interact with that person that breaks the whole flow of that dog, concentrating as it does for the person with a cane. Well, what did you say? What are you doing? And so the dog then has to focus on what that person is telling them, and the person that the client that's using the dog to get around is then put in danger. So we ask people and we have a label on our harnesses for the dogs that say, please don't distract me, I'm working. So all of those things that talking to the dog or patting it or reaching out to the dog or whistling to the dog, even I've heard people whistle at the dog down the street. That breaks the concentration and the work for the dog, so it puts the human in danger straight away. So I say to everybody, please talk to the human, and likely you're going to get an answer from the human if you start talking to the dog. I don't think I've come across a dog yet that answers anybody.

No. And I want.

No. And I want.

To know if they do.

To know if they do.

I've noticed dogs don't talk very much.

I've noticed dogs don't talk very much.

They generally don't talk very much. Yeah. Only to each other. But, um, so you're going to get a much better answer from the human. Oh, tell me about your dog. Or can you tell me anything, or are you okay? Do you need any help?

They generally don't talk very much. Yeah. Only to each other. But, um, so you're going to get a much better answer from the human. Oh, tell me about your dog. Or can you tell me anything, or are you okay? Do you need any help?

Yeah, that's really important. And fantastic views there. Matt. Thanks for that. Now we'll move on to what's involved in training a seeing eye dog. I assume that you have to train the dog, and then you have to train the person separately and then together. Yes. So we'll start with the dog. What is involved with training a dog? So it can be then eventually be a seeing eye dog.

Yeah, that's really important. And fantastic views there. Matt. Thanks for that. Now we'll move on to what's involved in training a seeing eye dog. I assume that you have to train the dog, and then you have to train the person separately and then together. Yes. So we'll start with the dog. What is involved with training a dog? So it can be then eventually be a seeing eye dog.

It really all starts from a puppy in the litter. As I said, we purpose breed our dogs now, so we have people at our training centre and our, um, puppy centre in Melbourne that are assessing the puppies right from day one. So they're identified. They're all given names and identification. And for that first eight weeks, they stay with their their mother in the in the kennels. And then they go out to our puppy raisers and you think, oh, okay, they have a year or so with their puppy raiser, but all the way through that year or so that they're with the puppy raisers, they are given training, that the dogs are given training, and the families and the people that are volunteering to be a puppy raiser for our dogs, they're given training regularly as well, so that they get an idea of what we're aiming for this dog to be doing. So without the dog even realizing we're starting to grow their skills to become a seeing eye dog as part of that. During that whole process, they're being assessed all the way through. They're to have they got the right temperament? Are they well suited for working in unusual situations or noisy situations, or all the weird and wonderful places that we take our dogs? Um, obviously not high end, but, you know, just the beginning. What's what's the dog like out on the street? What's the dog like when it meets other dogs? Those sorts of things. And then after that, 12 months or so, they come into our training center, we give them a really full assessment as to their suitability to start official training. And then that training begins with our dedicated trainers. So we've got a really good team of highly skilled, experienced trainers working at Kensington at our training centre in Melbourne. And so they are given the responsibility of say, you know, 4 or 6 or maybe even eight dogs at a time. And those dogs, um, go through with that trainer and each couple every few weeks. They are then given another assessment. So we obviously we start off nice and easy. So it's kindergarten for the first few weeks. How's the dog doing this? How's the dog doing that? What's it like if we give it a harness or we put a body piece on it, those sorts of things, and then we build up their skills. So by the end of the 20 weeks, and that's all they get. 20 weeks, just five months of their whole school, university, everything, their whole training is over those five months. By the end of that period, if they've made it through that, they're catching in Melbourne, they're catching trams, they're catching buses, they're on the trains, they're in busy shopping centres, they're in the middle of town at peak hour. So, you know, we really push them at the deep end as to what skills these dogs have got so that we know when we put them out with our clients, they're able to go to shopping centres. They're on escalators. So how how old.

It really all starts from a puppy in the litter. As I said, we purpose breed our dogs now, so we have people at our training centre and our, um, puppy centre in Melbourne that are assessing the puppies right from day one. So they're identified. They're all given names and identification. And for that first eight weeks, they stay with their their mother in the in the kennels. And then they go out to our puppy raisers and you think, oh, okay, they have a year or so with their puppy raiser, but all the way through that year or so that they're with the puppy raisers, they are given training, that the dogs are given training, and the families and the people that are volunteering to be a puppy raiser for our dogs, they're given training regularly as well, so that they get an idea of what we're aiming for this dog to be doing. So without the dog even realizing we're starting to grow their skills to become a seeing eye dog as part of that. During that whole process, they're being assessed all the way through. They're to have they got the right temperament? Are they well suited for working in unusual situations or noisy situations, or all the weird and wonderful places that we take our dogs? Um, obviously not high end, but, you know, just the beginning. What's what's the dog like out on the street? What's the dog like when it meets other dogs? Those sorts of things. And then after that, 12 months or so, they come into our training center, we give them a really full assessment as to their suitability to start official training. And then that training begins with our dedicated trainers. So we've got a really good team of highly skilled, experienced trainers working at Kensington at our training centre in Melbourne. And so they are given the responsibility of say, you know, 4 or 6 or maybe even eight dogs at a time. And those dogs, um, go through with that trainer and each couple every few weeks. They are then given another assessment. So we obviously we start off nice and easy. So it's kindergarten for the first few weeks. How's the dog doing this? How's the dog doing that? What's it like if we give it a harness or we put a body piece on it, those sorts of things, and then we build up their skills. So by the end of the 20 weeks, and that's all they get. 20 weeks, just five months of their whole school, university, everything, their whole training is over those five months. By the end of that period, if they've made it through that, they're catching in Melbourne, they're catching trams, they're catching buses, they're on the trains, they're in busy shopping centres, they're in the middle of town at peak hour. So, you know, we really push them at the deep end as to what skills these dogs have got so that we know when we put them out with our clients, they're able to go to shopping centres. They're on escalators. So how how old.

Would the dog be by this stage?

Would the dog be by this stage?

Usually about somewhere between, usually at the earliest, maybe 16 or 17 months, but usually around 18 months, 20 months when they've finished and they're back out and they come back to be matched with a client.

Usually about somewhere between, usually at the earliest, maybe 16 or 17 months, but usually around 18 months, 20 months when they've finished and they're back out and they come back to be matched with a client.

Is there many dogs that are found not suitable?

Is there many dogs that are found not suitable?

Yes. Sorry, Abby, there are. But we say to those dogs that they've chosen another career path. They've had a career change because they have feelings too. We don't want to say that they've been rejected. They they have.

Yes. Sorry, Abby, there are. But we say to those dogs that they've chosen another career path. They've had a career change because they have feelings too. We don't want to say that they've been rejected. They they have.

Done a lot of those. Now go off to be assistance dogs and companion dogs.

Done a lot of those. Now go off to be assistance dogs and companion dogs.

They can be depending whereabouts in that 20 weeks that they've made it. If they can't, if they come in at training and they don't quite make it to come into training, then we might look at them as going out as a pet. So but by that stage they're chipped, they're vaccinated, they've had a bit of training and house training as well. So they're still really lovely pets. And don't forget, they're pure bred too. So they're available as a pet. But then as we get through training, so at four weeks or eight weeks or through those stages, they're getting a whole lot of other skills as well. So they might get all the way through. And I've trained dogs that got all the way through to the busy complex levels, and they didn't quite make it. They got too stressed. But then yeah, we have other ways to then use those skills and those dogs as assistance dogs or therapy dogs or those sorts of things as well. So they have a lot of skills.

They can be depending whereabouts in that 20 weeks that they've made it. If they can't, if they come in at training and they don't quite make it to come into training, then we might look at them as going out as a pet. So but by that stage they're chipped, they're vaccinated, they've had a bit of training and house training as well. So they're still really lovely pets. And don't forget, they're pure bred too. So they're available as a pet. But then as we get through training, so at four weeks or eight weeks or through those stages, they're getting a whole lot of other skills as well. So they might get all the way through. And I've trained dogs that got all the way through to the busy complex levels, and they didn't quite make it. They got too stressed. But then yeah, we have other ways to then use those skills and those dogs as assistance dogs or therapy dogs or those sorts of things as well. So they have a lot of skills.

What makes them not suitable, usually anxiety.

What makes them not suitable, usually anxiety.

So they present anxiety in different ways. Every dog is an individual, so they might have a little bit of vocalizing. We call it their barking, or they're making a noise because they're anxious about where they are, or they keep checking in with the trainer, or am I doing the right thing? What do I do here? Or the classic dog language behaviors? Their ears get pinned down, their tail gets down between their legs. They might try and reduce their size to like us. You know, when we're stressed, we have different behaviors. And so we look out for those things. So we'll move.

So they present anxiety in different ways. Every dog is an individual, so they might have a little bit of vocalizing. We call it their barking, or they're making a noise because they're anxious about where they are, or they keep checking in with the trainer, or am I doing the right thing? What do I do here? Or the classic dog language behaviors? Their ears get pinned down, their tail gets down between their legs. They might try and reduce their size to like us. You know, when we're stressed, we have different behaviors. And so we look out for those things. So we'll move.

On now to what it takes to train someone with a vision impairment to work alongside that dog. How long does that take and what's the process involved?

On now to what it takes to train someone with a vision impairment to work alongside that dog. How long does that take and what's the process involved?

Simon everyone is different, of course. Every dog is different. Every person is different. And every even, every environment is different. Just give us a general. Well.

Simon everyone is different, of course. Every dog is different. Every person is different. And every even, every environment is different. Just give us a general. Well.

Normally you would only have key sort of points where you'd think, oh, time frames that you think you're reaching your goals or you're not reaching your goals.

Normally you would only have key sort of points where you'd think, oh, time frames that you think you're reaching your goals or you're not reaching your goals.

Yeah, yeah we do. We have a standard sort of four weeks? Some people come to dog mobility with lots of dog experience and dog mobility experience. This might be their second, their third, their fourth dog. And they know all about that mobility side of things. They might only take a couple of weeks to get familiar with that dog. There might be other people, the first time users that have never used a dog before, or never even have a dog in their house, they might take all of that time. So we allow for all those individual differences. And and then we have to look at how is that person going. How's the dog going. So we've got to have allowances as to how everyone's feeling. We also look at the environment that they're in. They might be in a very, very busy environment. And so we how do we work in the program that we can build up to get into that busy, busy environment, same as through the dogs training. So the relationship between the human and the dog is built during that period. And then we come back later as an instructor. We come back once it's all finished and we know that we can sign off the program, we can let that dog and that human work together for a few weeks. We touch base with them after a couple of weeks, if they need any more refreshers or a bit more advice, we're available. And then we have officially at one month and then at three months and so on. Through that first year, we're giving them lots of support and checking in, and then after that we just do an annually. But I say to all the clients as well, any time you need me, just let me know and I can come and help you. There might be some footpaths are being torn up, bus routes a change. So yeah, it's an ongoing process.

Yeah, yeah we do. We have a standard sort of four weeks? Some people come to dog mobility with lots of dog experience and dog mobility experience. This might be their second, their third, their fourth dog. And they know all about that mobility side of things. They might only take a couple of weeks to get familiar with that dog. There might be other people, the first time users that have never used a dog before, or never even have a dog in their house, they might take all of that time. So we allow for all those individual differences. And and then we have to look at how is that person going. How's the dog going. So we've got to have allowances as to how everyone's feeling. We also look at the environment that they're in. They might be in a very, very busy environment. And so we how do we work in the program that we can build up to get into that busy, busy environment, same as through the dogs training. So the relationship between the human and the dog is built during that period. And then we come back later as an instructor. We come back once it's all finished and we know that we can sign off the program, we can let that dog and that human work together for a few weeks. We touch base with them after a couple of weeks, if they need any more refreshers or a bit more advice, we're available. And then we have officially at one month and then at three months and so on. Through that first year, we're giving them lots of support and checking in, and then after that we just do an annually. But I say to all the clients as well, any time you need me, just let me know and I can come and help you. There might be some footpaths are being torn up, bus routes a change. So yeah, it's an ongoing process.

I'm sure it is. Now give us one quick example of say I want to learn how to get from home to the shop.

I'm sure it is. Now give us one quick example of say I want to learn how to get from home to the shop.

I will look at the the route from their front door to the shops and whereabouts they need to go in the shopping centre. Let's say it's local shops, a row of shops, say with a cafe, a laundromat, a chemist, whatever. So I then look at how many roads they might need to cross. And so I'd go over that track myself, and then I'd come back to the client and we might say, okay, let's do this. Just you and I, and you bring your cane out and let's explore this ourselves, okay? So they're brand new in that suburb. Yep. And then we might say, okay, let's get the dog and we'll bring the dog out because they're pet dogs as well. You know, they can go, uh, like in those public spaces on lead. So then we would walk the dog over that track and then we'd go back again. So the dog learns both ways, going to the shops and coming back. Then we'd put the harness on the dog, so we'd do it several times before we actually worked the dog. Yep. And then I walk behind the client, and then I walk away from the client. I watch them from a distance.

I will look at the the route from their front door to the shops and whereabouts they need to go in the shopping centre. Let's say it's local shops, a row of shops, say with a cafe, a laundromat, a chemist, whatever. So I then look at how many roads they might need to cross. And so I'd go over that track myself, and then I'd come back to the client and we might say, okay, let's do this. Just you and I, and you bring your cane out and let's explore this ourselves, okay? So they're brand new in that suburb. Yep. And then we might say, okay, let's get the dog and we'll bring the dog out because they're pet dogs as well. You know, they can go, uh, like in those public spaces on lead. So then we would walk the dog over that track and then we'd go back again. So the dog learns both ways, going to the shops and coming back. Then we'd put the harness on the dog, so we'd do it several times before we actually worked the dog. Yep. And then I walk behind the client, and then I walk away from the client. I watch them from a distance.

So you. You'd have to train the person to train the dog. Correct. Okay. That's fascinating. Matt. Now we have to, um, quickly wind up this really interesting conversation. Soon. We're running out of time. I'll just ask you a few final things. How does a person who's listening get into becoming a seeing eye dog user or a handler?

So you. You'd have to train the person to train the dog. Correct. Okay. That's fascinating. Matt. Now we have to, um, quickly wind up this really interesting conversation. Soon. We're running out of time. I'll just ask you a few final things. How does a person who's listening get into becoming a seeing eye dog user or a handler?

We've got a website. I think Abby's got the website there. Yeah. Um, and we've got a phone number as well to, um, get in touch with me. We have our office at 148 Railway Parade at West Leederville. So you can contact us through the website or at the office. Okay. And, uh, and then I come out and do an assessment and have a chat with you as to how we can transition from whatever way you're getting around to a dog.

We've got a website. I think Abby's got the website there. Yeah. Um, and we've got a phone number as well to, um, get in touch with me. We have our office at 148 Railway Parade at West Leederville. So you can contact us through the website or at the office. Okay. And, uh, and then I come out and do an assessment and have a chat with you as to how we can transition from whatever way you're getting around to a dog.

Another common question people often ask is, how do people get involved with helping to raise the puppies?

Another common question people often ask is, how do people get involved with helping to raise the puppies?

That's a great question, Simon. Our puppy raising is mainly done in Melbourne through our centre in in Melbourne, but we also have puppy raising staff in New South Wales and in Brisbane. So through our website you can find out if you're in those areas, how to actually have a puppy in your house, but also through our website. I say to all the people in Perth that see our dogs and say, how can I do some puppy raising? I said, oh, this is even better in Perth. You can do it remotely so you can support our puppy raising financially. Each each month. And you don't have the puppy in your house chewing all your slippers and pooing and weeing for those first few months where you're training as house trained.

That's a great question, Simon. Our puppy raising is mainly done in Melbourne through our centre in in Melbourne, but we also have puppy raising staff in New South Wales and in Brisbane. So through our website you can find out if you're in those areas, how to actually have a puppy in your house, but also through our website. I say to all the people in Perth that see our dogs and say, how can I do some puppy raising? I said, oh, this is even better in Perth. You can do it remotely so you can support our puppy raising financially. Each each month. And you don't have the puppy in your house chewing all your slippers and pooing and weeing for those first few months where you're training as house trained.

Okay. You just mentioned finances there, so this will be my final question. What does it cost the blind person to take on a seeing eye dog?

Okay. You just mentioned finances there, so this will be my final question. What does it cost the blind person to take on a seeing eye dog?

The the best thing about that answer, Simon, is that to acquire the dog, the only cost will be your energy and your time. So we have a very, very generous, wonderful donor program. So if anyone else is listening that would like to support us through the donations, we are able to use those donations for people that are not eligible for the National Disability Insurance Scheme. So if you're on the NDIS and you have an NDI, a program, we're able to then factor into that a dog component as well. So the financial cost to a person with a dog is minimal because of those support mechanisms. But there is also the opportunity for people to say, well, my dog needs some more toys or whatever. It's part of the National Disability Insurance Scheme. Those clients have an annual dog maintenance fund that they can use to have vet costs, and also food costs covered. Okay. Yeah. So there's lots of ways that that financial side of thing can be covered.

The the best thing about that answer, Simon, is that to acquire the dog, the only cost will be your energy and your time. So we have a very, very generous, wonderful donor program. So if anyone else is listening that would like to support us through the donations, we are able to use those donations for people that are not eligible for the National Disability Insurance Scheme. So if you're on the NDIS and you have an NDI, a program, we're able to then factor into that a dog component as well. So the financial cost to a person with a dog is minimal because of those support mechanisms. But there is also the opportunity for people to say, well, my dog needs some more toys or whatever. It's part of the National Disability Insurance Scheme. Those clients have an annual dog maintenance fund that they can use to have vet costs, and also food costs covered. Okay. Yeah. So there's lots of ways that that financial side of thing can be covered.

Well thanks, Matt. That's fascinating because I know everyone is always really interested in seeing our dogs whenever you see them around, and they are quite a visible part of the community. So I'd like to thank Matt Wood from Seeing Eye Dog for joining us here today at Vision Australia Radio. And great to speak with you, Matt.

Well thanks, Matt. That's fascinating because I know everyone is always really interested in seeing our dogs whenever you see them around, and they are quite a visible part of the community. So I'd like to thank Matt Wood from Seeing Eye Dog for joining us here today at Vision Australia Radio. And great to speak with you, Matt.

Thank you so much, Simon. Thanks, Abby. Great to be here.

Thank you so much, Simon. Thanks, Abby. Great to be here.

Hi. Wasn't that a fantastic conversation we just had with Matt there from seeing Eye Dog Australia? I love seeing the working dogs in action. Now, as Matt mentioned in his conversation there, there are in Australia two main companies that train and provide dog guides. There is seeing Eye Dogs Australia and Guide Dogs Australia. Now being quite parochial here in Western Australia and I think Matt touched on it, Perth was the first place in Australia to start using guide dogs. That was after someone called Arnold Cooke went over to England and learnt about the use of guide dogs. And then he came back here to Perth and then said, well, let's get these up and running. And he decided that the assistance of a dog was very beneficial for people who were blind, and then started up the guide dog school here in Perth, and it spread across Australia. So well done us here in Perth. Yeah.

Hi. Wasn't that a fantastic conversation we just had with Matt there from seeing Eye Dog Australia? I love seeing the working dogs in action. Now, as Matt mentioned in his conversation there, there are in Australia two main companies that train and provide dog guides. There is seeing Eye Dogs Australia and Guide Dogs Australia. Now being quite parochial here in Western Australia and I think Matt touched on it, Perth was the first place in Australia to start using guide dogs. That was after someone called Arnold Cooke went over to England and learnt about the use of guide dogs. And then he came back here to Perth and then said, well, let's get these up and running. And he decided that the assistance of a dog was very beneficial for people who were blind, and then started up the guide dog school here in Perth, and it spread across Australia. So well done us here in Perth. Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. Simon. And in Australia, the preferred dog breed is a Labrador. And it's historically always been the case. Since guide dogs were developed in Australia in the 1950s. The Labrador or Labrador cross is favoured because it's a good sized dog. It's affectionate, even tempered, and it's neither fast nor too lethargic.

Yeah. Exactly. Simon. And in Australia, the preferred dog breed is a Labrador. And it's historically always been the case. Since guide dogs were developed in Australia in the 1950s. The Labrador or Labrador cross is favoured because it's a good sized dog. It's affectionate, even tempered, and it's neither fast nor too lethargic.

Whilst we all know there is some very intelligent dogs out there like the Kelpies and the collies, as we've seen on the television program I mentioned earlier. But they like to do their work constantly, and I've seen many dog guides that you walk to the office, you sit down for a long time, then you walk again at lunchtime and you sit down for a long time. A kelpie wouldn't like sitting around for long periods of time, so that was one of the things you just mentioned about the temperament of a Labrador. They're pretty easygoing as well as being quite intelligent and easy to train, so they're a good choice.

Whilst we all know there is some very intelligent dogs out there like the Kelpies and the collies, as we've seen on the television program I mentioned earlier. But they like to do their work constantly, and I've seen many dog guides that you walk to the office, you sit down for a long time, then you walk again at lunchtime and you sit down for a long time. A kelpie wouldn't like sitting around for long periods of time, so that was one of the things you just mentioned about the temperament of a Labrador. They're pretty easygoing as well as being quite intelligent and easy to train, so they're a good choice.

They need to be okay with walking slowly and not constantly running around.

They need to be okay with walking slowly and not constantly running around.

That's right. German Shepherds were one of the first dogs that were used to assist the blind in Germany when this idea was first started, and when the idea was taken to America, they were used. German Shepherds were used as well. But again, across the world most people use the Labrador or similar types of breeds like that. Slight tangent. Note I knew a fellow Mark, who had a Rottweiler, and he had it certified by seeing eye dogs over here in Perth, and it did catch the attention of most people to see someone, a blind person using a Rottweiler as their assistance dog.

That's right. German Shepherds were one of the first dogs that were used to assist the blind in Germany when this idea was first started, and when the idea was taken to America, they were used. German Shepherds were used as well. But again, across the world most people use the Labrador or similar types of breeds like that. Slight tangent. Note I knew a fellow Mark, who had a Rottweiler, and he had it certified by seeing eye dogs over here in Perth, and it did catch the attention of most people to see someone, a blind person using a Rottweiler as their assistance dog.

Yeah, I can definitely say I've never seen that.

Yeah, I can definitely say I've never seen that.

No, no, it was very unusual. And a key.

No, no, it was very unusual. And a key.

Point as well to note is when they are working, you're not to pat them or distract them, which can be really hard because previously we had Caitlyn in the studio who has a beautiful guide dog named Rennie, and while we were interviewing her, he put his head on my feet and looked up at me and I'm like, Rennie, you know I can't patch you right now. So as hard as it can be and tempting, definitely don't.

Point as well to note is when they are working, you're not to pat them or distract them, which can be really hard because previously we had Caitlyn in the studio who has a beautiful guide dog named Rennie, and while we were interviewing her, he put his head on my feet and looked up at me and I'm like, Rennie, you know I can't patch you right now. So as hard as it can be and tempting, definitely don't.

And that's right. And we're here at Vision Australia Radio are very accepting of having guide dogs and seeing our dogs in the studio. However, there are still a lot of misinformed people who don't allow people who are using a dog guide into their restaurant or more importantly, into their cab or into their Uber. And this causes a lot of problems, and it's quite a big issue. And it's in the media all the time. This is just not acceptable. There are laws in place, especially for taxis and especially for restaurants and theaters and wherever else, that if a blind person is using a dog guide, They're allowed to go everywhere else. There's only two main areas a dog guide can't go, and that's the zoo and certain parts of the hospital.

And that's right. And we're here at Vision Australia Radio are very accepting of having guide dogs and seeing our dogs in the studio. However, there are still a lot of misinformed people who don't allow people who are using a dog guide into their restaurant or more importantly, into their cab or into their Uber. And this causes a lot of problems, and it's quite a big issue. And it's in the media all the time. This is just not acceptable. There are laws in place, especially for taxis and especially for restaurants and theaters and wherever else, that if a blind person is using a dog guide, They're allowed to go everywhere else. There's only two main areas a dog guide can't go, and that's the zoo and certain parts of the hospital.

Yeah, definitely think it would be problematic in the zoo.

Yeah, definitely think it would be problematic in the zoo.

Yeah. And, um, it is a big push from a lot of the advocacy organizations. And there is a special advocacy organization and peer support organization that I'd like to shout out to. It's called Dog Guide Handlers Australia, and they are just a bunch of volunteers who get together to try to lobby, bring better representation to people who are using dog guides and well done to them.

Yeah. And, um, it is a big push from a lot of the advocacy organizations. And there is a special advocacy organization and peer support organization that I'd like to shout out to. It's called Dog Guide Handlers Australia, and they are just a bunch of volunteers who get together to try to lobby, bring better representation to people who are using dog guides and well done to them.

Yeah, very, very interesting Simon, and definitely some good points made there. I really enjoyed this interview. It was very, very good to speak to Matt and just learn what is involved and what goes into training these dogs. So yeah, it was a great interview and thank you so much. And I'll just have a reminder to everyone that we would love any feedback that you can give us. Anything you want to say. Or if you're interested in even coming on the show for any particular reason, you can flick us an email. Our email is in plain sight at Vision Australia. Org that's in plain sight at Vision Australia. Org. So thank you so much.

Yeah, very, very interesting Simon, and definitely some good points made there. I really enjoyed this interview. It was very, very good to speak to Matt and just learn what is involved and what goes into training these dogs. So yeah, it was a great interview and thank you so much. And I'll just have a reminder to everyone that we would love any feedback that you can give us. Anything you want to say. Or if you're interested in even coming on the show for any particular reason, you can flick us an email. Our email is in plain sight at Vision Australia. Org that's in plain sight at Vision Australia. Org. So thank you so much.

Thanks a lot for joining us here on In Plain Sight and Vision Australia Radio. Join us again sometime very soon. And you can look up all the local guides on VA radio.org and on demand on all the major platforms for podcasts. Speak to you soon. Bye for now.

Thanks a lot for joining us here on In Plain Sight and Vision Australia Radio. Join us again sometime very soon. And you can look up all the local guides on VA radio.org and on demand on all the major platforms for podcasts. Speak to you soon. Bye for now.