In Case You Missed It with Khristina WilliamsThe Power of Knowing Who You Are with Sheryl Swoopes and Terrika Foster-Brasby
In this special crossover episode of In Case You Missed It Khristina is joined by friends of the show and Levels to This hosts Sheryl Swoopes and Terrika Foster-Brasby for an unfiltered conversation recorded at NBA All-Star Weekend.
The trio dives into the challenges of balancing public perception with personal authenticity, the double standards women face in sports and media, and the impact of social media on athletes and journalists alike. From viral moments to breaking barriers, this episode explores the evolving landscape of women’s basketball and its cultural significance.
Want more women’s basketball scoop? Follow the show on Instagram @ICYMIwithKW and X @ICYMIwithKW and for more on Khristina follow her on Instagram @khristinawilliams
Let us know what you think of the show by leaving a rating and a review!
CREDITS
Executive Producers:
Nikki Ettore
Jessie Katz
Tyler Klang
Jonathan Strickland
Producer:
Mike Coscarelli
Producer & Editor:
Tari Harrison
Host:
Khristina Williams
In Case You Missed It with Christina Williams is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Hey, y'all, welcome to In Case You Missed It with Christina Williams. And I know it's been a little bit of time, but I'm so happy to be back and on this special edition of In Case You Missed It. This is going to be a very, very fun conversation with my girls, Cheryl Swoops and Tarika Foster Brasby, hosts of Levels to this podcast on Iheartwomen's Sports Network. Yeah, we had a lot of fun with this episode. We recorded it live from NBA All Star in San Francisco at Club thirty in partnership with Stephen Curry's Unanimous Media Company, and it was a lot of fun to bring women's sports to NBA All Star. The conversation is on the topic of knowing who you are, and it was really inspired by a dinner that Cheryl trikan I had the previous night before we recorded the conversation. Not going to get into that because you have to listen to the episode, but I think that this is an important conversation, especially as women in a male dominated space as black women in the sports industry. I think that you know this conversation is something that needed to be had, and I know this isn't like the typical In Case You Missed the episodes with the news and headlines, but I think that you will truly truly enjoy this discussion. So without further ado, here's this episode of In Case You Missed It with Christina Williams, and it's crossing over with The Levels to This podcast featuring Chryl Swoops and Tarika Foster Brasby.
Good morning or good afternoon. I don't know what time it is. I'm still on East Coast time, so out of my head it's afternoon, but it could very well be morning.
But we're here. Give a round of a boss for yourself. Yeah, thank you for being here. Thank you for being here.
I am Tureka Foster Brasby, host of the Levels to this podcast, and I am incited to have.
Because I was to say it and I said, oh no, she wants to introduce herself. I'm Christina Williams.
I'm a host of In Case You miss It with Christina Williams.
Yes, yes, so I'm not even gonna let you look at me, because I'm getting the eyes and I am Cheryl Swoops. I co host levels to this with the one and only Tik across the Bras.
The Cheryl Swoops time champion, the three time Olympian. Don't play on her name?
Did you know who she is? Do you know? Stop it stopping.
We're very excited to be here today at NBA All Star.
We are looking for.
A good day of fun and a good day of excitement for the fans. But you know what, I'll be the first to tell you guys that sometimes it is incredibly difficult to be in these spaces because you have moments where people recognize you. They recognize you from the podcast, they recognize you from the different things that you do.
I know you guys have people who recognize you all the time.
And there are moments where you're like, you know what, I just kind of want to chill a little bit, right, Like I want to have a drink. I want to kick back, put my feet up, dance a little bit, shake a little something something. And then there are times where it's like you feel like maybe you can't do that because you don't want people who see you or envision you in a certain way to then look at you differently or have things to say because they only see you a certain way and they don't give you an opportunity to kind of be yourself and enjoy yourself. And so today we're kind of gonna talk a little bit about what it means to balance.
Being who you are and what you do and.
How those two things are completely separate. And Christina, I'm gonna start with you because we had a moment recently where we were like, Hey, we're gonna go out, We're gonna have fun, but then was just a little bit of reservation. And I think one thing, one thing that reminds me of that is even like the women who we cover in the WNBA, and how there are moments where we see them on the court, we see what they do, we see how they ball, and then we have to remind ourselves, and maybe not us, but like people have to remind themselves, like what you are and what you do on the court is not necessarily what you are and who you are off the court, in your personal life and your personal endeavors. And so I'll start with you and go around a shurel about what it means to try to find a balance.
Okay, we gotta go there. We are absolutely going there. I love that.
Yeah, last night was a really real experience for me because I feel like I'm still very new in this space, although I've been in it for about seven eight years, and so a lot of me wants to protect who I am, that public facing image versus my private life, and so I did. I did have reservations about going out last night and people seeing me outside of work, the work environment, and I guess it's something you're laughing, Shuryl, But it's real.
It's real.
But no, it's just something that I'm learning to balance. I'm not there yet. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not there yet. You're just still learning learning how to navigate it, I guess.
And Errol, for you having literally so much of your life public right with being a superstar athlete, with literally somebody can pick up Google and feel like they can find everything about you.
You know, how do you, in your own.
Way trying to find a balance of you being Churl the basketball player, the Hall of Famer, and then you just being Churro from Texas, from West Texas. I, first of all, I think it's hard because I think if you ask even people in the room, is.
It fair to say that what you do at work, in your workplace, on the court or whatever, you have to be that same person outside of work. Personally, I don't think it's fair because what I do outside of my job should be able. I should be able to be me. And I think one of the biggest issues with that though, when people are trying to portray you as being like, oh my gosh, he or she they're like on all the time and they're great, and they're this and that, Like, I think you give a false sense to little kids growing up of everything's perfect, everything's great, because it's not. Do we always make the right choices?
No?
Do we always make the right decision?
No, So I think it's.
Unfair to have those expectations. But for myself personally, like it or not fair or unfair, I always know that there's somebody somewhere watching me just to see am I going to f up? So they can be able to go and say, you see, she did mess up. And I'll be the first to say, yeah, I do make mistakes, But I try to be very cognizant of my surroundings where I'm at what I'm doing, because I know people are always going to judge, even though that's not our place to do that. But I always want to have that not a perfect image, but I always want to be that person where when especially little girls, when they look at me, they can say, you know what, like, I'm real. I'm just going to be a real person regardless of where I'm at, what I'm doing, and I want to be able to show that to them and to let them know that it is okay to not always be right.
It's okay to not always be on.
I think we put way too much pressure on our cells at times to do that.
Can I shake the table a little bit? Shake it.
I'm about to shake the table, the hair up in the shaped table a little bit, shake, shake, shake.
Do you think do you think men have that expectation?
Absolutely not like like y'all have no idea how they don't you have it at I don't think so. Like you can lose all your hair and you will still be considered that guy, you know what I mean? You can gain weight, yes, and no one's gonna say I'm not gonna date that, yeah, because he's gained We like y'all are just y'all, if we put on two pounds hundred percent officially become the worst people in the world. And we're overweight and we're obese. If we lose a single strand of hair, we all of a sudden have now missed the societal standards of what beauty looks like. And so if we go out and have too much to drink and get caught on social media, then it's, oh, my god, woman, thou aren't loosed like what in the world, right, And so it's it's so interesting, how And this isn't to play the gender card, but it is to just demonstrate just how much more difficult it is at times to balance your personality and your profession. And I think that's relatable in any case, Like even when we have to sometimes code switch, right, like we have to sometimes you know, I can hit you see what I'm saying, and I have past because you know, I can absolutely have a conversation with my friends, and there are certain terms and things that I can say with my friends that I can't necessarily say at work, and not because those things are bad, but just because the perception of it is just so different, right, And I just I think it's important to put an emphasis on just how difficult that can be sometimes. But you know, for both of you and whoever wants to answer can answer. Are there moments where you're just like, for lack of better terms, f it like I don't care you know what someone's gonna say, or like you knows it. I'm gonna I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna put on this outfit, I'm gonna.
Wear this week. I'm gonna save.
This line because it's just it is who it is. And if someone else doesn't have the ability to compartmentalize me personally versus me professionally, like that's with them.
Yeah.
But I have found though that.
The older I get, the more I get to a point of the I really don't care that idea because but you know why, because I sleep very well at night, and and what I mean by that is I'm I'm genuinely a really good person. I treat people well, just.
Don't come at me sideways.
And so because of that, I yeah, I just feel like we as a society, we just worry about other people's business too much at times, and we're not we're not allowed to have our own. I can't have my my own thoughts and opinions, Like you feel like, not you personally, but you feel like you should be able to tell me what my own opinion should be about something, right, And so instead of going back and forth with people about whatever it is, I just get to a point to where I'm like, you know what, whatever, you got it?
Yeah, I just chime in on that of course.
So I mean, obviously we're public facing figures right in the media space and the sports space as.
A Hall of Famer.
How much do you think social media and parasocial relationships factor into those expectations?
Oh?
My god, so much?
Like there are so funny story My husband doesn't like so like he is cool with social media, but he don't really like social.
Media at all.
Right, Like if you look on his on his social pages, it's nothing but like memes, jokes and the Philadelphia Eagles, Like that's it.
That's why you're gonna see.
I almost didn't even know it was him because he changed his profile picture to Jalen Hurts, and I was like, who is this?
Who is this person?
But he doesn't like social Me on the other hand, part of it is because of my job that I have to continually be on social media and have to continually post. But also because I think social is what you make it, right, It's a negative place if you make it and you allow it to be a negative place. I don't allow it to be a negative space for me. But with that being said, because I post about, you know, family, husband things like that. When I'm out and I'm with my husband, people think they know him. So they're always like, oh my god, I know you know you're you're you're a tourists and you and you like the eagles and how do you blah blah blah blah, and they just like kind of start conversations and granted he's not like a rude person, so he will engage in conversation, but when we're done, he's like.
Who the hell is that? How do they know me?
You know?
And so I think those parasocial relationships really do speak a lot to how we interact and how people interact and have expectations of us because they think they know who we are and what we're about based on what we share and what we post on social media.
And I think all of us can.
Say that we're all layered, right, like where none of us are one dimensional.
All of us have different parts, different pieces.
And I even think about that as it relates to women in the WNBA, right, Like we look at players in the WNBA and we say, you know, oh, djn A Carrington, she's beautiful, she has these lashes, she has these hair. But you remember there was one time last season where there was a conversation where folks were like, oh my god, her nails are too long, like that's ghetto blah blah blah blah blah. Right, and it's like there's these these secret things.
That we have.
And truthfully, if you you know, really got to know Dja or really got a chance to like follow her outside of what she does on the court, you'd see she's one of the kindest people, super silly. Her nails actually aren't long at all naturally hers not with the crylic And it's it's one of those things where it's like you think you know something, you set this expectation, you set this stereotype, and it's completely different from who you really are. And social plays a huge, huge Rollinette.
Yeah, I'll just add a little bit to that. I think the one thing when you said social can be really good or can be really bad, but to me, it is what you make it. But social media is the one place though where like it gives people a place and a space to where they feel relevant, but also a place where they feel like they can come for you behind a keyboard or on a cell phone. And that's where I've just gotten to a point to where one you just take a break, Like I have to mentally just walk away from social media at times because people feel like they really know you based off of what they see on social media. And I think if you spend your time getting so caught up in reading all the posts and all the repost and tweets and about yourself specifically, like it could play a huge part in what you feel mentally, and a lot a lot of people aren't mentally strong enough to deal with the things that are said about you on social media. So that's where I've gotten to a point to where I'm like, you know, it's it's my it's my life.
Yeah.
Yeah, I absolutely think that there's levels to having boundaries and that balance. And for me personally, I mean this time last year, I spent a lot of screen time on my phone. Breaking news is a very hefty business. Y'all.
And so this year I kind of took a step back because it.
Was mentally taxing to be on social media, to want to be first and all those things. So for me, it was just about taking time personally for myself and to evaluate, Okay, how am I going to do this, coming up with a strategy turning my phone off after a certain hour and.
Be like, yeah, this can wait until tomorrow.
I think that sometimes we always think that we have to do things instantly, and sometimes it's okay to just hold something off for the next day and take that time to yourself.
Do you remember when we did the We did an article for the Slam exactly what I'm talking about.
Yes, we did an article for Slam magazine and one of the questions was what is your screen time? And I never paid attention to my screen time until that particular article, and.
That twenty one hours was my screen time? It said sixteen hours, and I was like, twenty one hours.
There are twenty four hours in a day.
So only three and those only three hours you weren't on your phone was probably when you.
Were sleep sleeping, breaking breaking news, y'all. Yeah, that was crazy.
Though, that can't that can't be healthy.
It's that's the point, And that's the point. It wasn't It wasn't. I think that's exactly the point.
It's not.
But it's it's so consuming, like especially for you in that space, Like you know, I think about you, and I think about like Woa, how he was the breaking news guy. Now there's Shams and you know, Rachel Gallian and and just there's so much consumption in that space that again, it becomes difficult to maybe balance who you are in a personal life and just you know, what you should be doing.
What does Christina enjoy? What does Cheryl enjoy? What does Tea enjoy?
That doesn't have to do with you know, basketball or sports or media, But I just think that, like again, it's relatable to most people. I mean, there are lawyers who spend so much time in a courtroom that you know, you're like, what do you what does.
Your family do?
What are your what happens when you're not there? There are doctors who spend so much time in the hospital. What do you do when you're not you know, in an emergency situation or when you're not at work, Like, well, how do you how do you turn that thing off. And then there's something that you said, Cheryl that really stands out to me. When you say some people aren't mentally taxing, I mean some people aren't mentally strong to deal with that.
I'll give you a perfect example.
Last year, I did a show and I did a show with someone is this girl?
Yes?
Okay, so I did. I did a show last year with this woman named Pearl Davis. And if you're familiar with Pearl Davis, Pearl Davis is a very very strong right wing girl who has a lot of opinions that I disagree with. Right But I didn't know I was getting ready to do this show with Pearl, Okay, I I wasn't aware. I didn't know what til I show it up and I said, oh shit. I was like, oh, oh, that's a good thing. Don't worry about it, that's a good thing. Don't don't google her, please, don't even tear your algorithm up like that. But the point is I also wasn't completely familiar with her, but I had just seen a couple of things and I did a show with her, and I was very excited about this show. And I posted a clip for this show on Twitter and girl.
They ate me up.
They ate her alive. I was like me, everybody loves me.
I posted that I was doing a show, and we posted a clip of the show and it was me and I was sitting next to her, And it just so happened to be the same day that Caitlyn Clark was asked about Dja Carrington, and I had tweeted that I thought it was disappointing that Caitlyn didn't take the opportunity initially to dispel the notion and the rumors and the conversation about racism and like her fan base, and that same day I posted my clip of this woman sitting next to me without you got the you got the audacity to talk about a twenty one year old Caitlyn Clark and here you are sitting on stage with Pearl Davis. And so in my mind, I'm like, oh, but I mean we have different views, but I'm pretty sure I could shift the view.
They were like, no.
Boo, accountability taken accountability taking it.
And I had to then be like, you know what, after I quit the show, like four days in, I said, this is four days in, y'all, but I said, this is a moment where I had to be a bit vulnerable because they were valid in the things that they were saying. Now, they didn't all say it the right way, you know, but it really had to show me, you know, how mentally tough you can be to take criticism because as an analyst, I criticize players all the time. As an analyst, I have to tell you when you're not playing well. There may be times that I say things that people will be like, yeah, Tea, that's a little harsh. So I had to sit in my moment and allow those same people who I criticized to be like t That wasn't a smart move, you know, And it took a little bit of vulnerability because I don't like seeing myself being talked about like that.
But I had to own that space.
So to your point, it does take a lot of mental toughness to deal with that.
But I have a question to.
That, all shit, Well, it's really a general question, okay, but why can't you sit on the same stage with someone that doesn't have It doesn't have to be in particular, but someone who doesn't have the same views as you and have a conversation Because personally, I feel like that's how we grow, That's how we change. It doesn't mean I'm gonna agree with you, but at least we can sit and have a conversation.
Yeah, I think to answer that question in a general sense, not to get to specific Yeah, in a general sense, I agree with you one hundred percent. I think the way that we may change and the way that we impact people are the way that we do developed actual solutions to some of the things that we discussed is to have genuine conversations.
The keyword in that is genuine. This was not a genuine scenario.
This was a scenario where the producer was trying to like get cleared, and so there was no way that anything I said I shouldn't been on that stage.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
There was.
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
But but generally speaking, yeah, that's how you I got you.
Yeah yeah yeah.
Christina, has there been moments where maybe you felt a little mentally vulnerable on social media or where you've like, dang, I kind of gotta eat that, or I gotta take that, or maybe not because you really you really do it.
Rage almost what I had to put some people on a summer jam screen because I am not the person to clap back at anyone on social media, say what you want.
I'm gonna just ignore it, lock you mute, you never see.
You again in the algorithm, and I'm all good, but you remember.
Yeah.
So there was one night I was getting ready for bed and maya good friend Tarika, was like, grow into your phone. Yeah, someone's chat leaked and there's mesages about you. And long story short, there was a group of white male reporters in the women's basketball space. They had a private group chat and it was filled with racist, misogynistic messages.
My name was thrown in there.
They were talking about black media and journalists in the space and it was really really bad. And so I was like, oh, I can just ignore this like I ignore everything else and when it comes to my way, or I can confront it face on. And so I have a pretty good following on Twitter X and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna put them on the Summer Jam screen because people deserve to know who these people are and what they really think. And so I did it. I pressed in. I was like, oh, you're on the Summer Jam screen now. And this group of journalists was essentially exposed, and I know they were wondering how the heck did she get that text message? Well, I'm a newsbreaker to space, I can I know and see everything. I get everything, one of the things that I don't break. But so yeah, I put them on the screen and it really forced that group of men to be held accountable. And I think that the w Twitter space, it opened their eyes to what we have to face as women of color in this space. And yeah, it was something that you kind of put under the rug because women's sports, you want to advance women's sports, had all costs. But to me, I was like, this is not okay, and we need to have this really an ugly conversation. And it was all over the news headlines. I was getting calls to be interviewed on multiple news stations.
It was crazy.
Even the person who that group was working for did not initially want to take accountability for the things that they were saying.
His employees were saying about about her.
And I've never met any of these people when I'm in the media workroom. They don't say hi to me, never out of any conversation, and they've never worked with me, don't know me from a hole in the wall, nothing, And they had so much to say about who they thought I was, or the privilege that I have or whatever. I worked fucking hard. I've worked so hard to get to where I am and I don't take it for granted. But to those people, they thought that, you know, she's she's a black woman, she was just given this, and that is not the case to my journey or how I ended up to where I am. So yeah, I'm not gonna say the name, but yeah, and having me the company was like, I don't think that I want to make a statement about this, and he just did not want to hold his employees.
Accountable until it hit him publicly where the.
Sports industry was like, no, you have to say something, and then he said it, but it was it didn't feel genuine.
Yeah, myself reached out to him. Cindy Burunson reached out to him. There were many of us who reached out who was just like, you have to say something. It is not good to just be silent on this, because these are your employees and they represent you and they represent your brand. But I think it's just adding to the vulnerability that we have in wanting to keep our personal life personal and our professional life professional, because if they could say things negative like that about you as a professional. Imagine what the group chat would have looked like. And I'm gonna tell you this type of friend I am. When I got that text, I was like, yeah, I could leak it, But at the same time, Christina's my friend, so I'm not going I'm not gonna sit on this text. I'm gonna send it to her. If she wants to leak it, let her do it. If she doesn't want to, that's cool too, because it is about her. But as another person creative journalist in the space and someone who's very protective of knowing what it takes to.
Be in this space, I was like, I'm not about to just sit on this text.
I think that's the one thing that I was afraid of was falling into that angry black woman trope. Yeah, that follows so many of us in this industry, and I was just like, I'm not going to say anything I don't like it is what it is like.
If they think that, that's up to them.
But at some point you have to stand up for yourself no matter what people will think about you. And so for me, that was my moment of you have to speak out, you have to stand up for yourself so absolutely, and I appreciate it because also taught me that I have a whole community people who have my back and are very supportive of me in the industry. I had GMS reach out to me, executives in the league like no, like we really rock with you.
Do you need anything? I'm here.
So it just let me know that I have a great community in the women's basketball space and that knows people have to be health accountable for Yeah.
No, thank god you did. But I will say this though.
Sure for you, it feels like you are also sometimes often caught between a rock and a hard place because as a former player, you know and understand better than any of us on the stage what it means to be on a championship team, what it means to be in a locker room, what it means to be.
An athlete, and building blocks.
But then you also share the commonality of us of now being in an analyst and now being a media personality, and if feels that it becomes increasingly difficult the more people get itchy Twitter fingers. To maintain your professionalism as an analyst and also stand up for players when they have been done wrong by fans, by media, by others.
Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah, I think you.
Know, first of all, being a former NBA player, like they are allowed to say whatever they want to say about the game today, the current players today, and people see that as, oh my goodness, well if this person whoever, that former player is right, if they said it, then it must be true.
It must be right.
But the other side of that is as a woman, as a former player, it's almost like we're not entitled to have opinions about the game and where the game is to or about certain players. And that to me is so mind boggling because like I will sit here today and put my resume up against any former NBA player period. Well, and I'm only saying that because if you have a right to talk about the game, then so should I.
And for me, it's never personal.
But it's always about wanting the game to be better, wanting the players to be better, wanting people to understand where we've come from, where we've been, and where we're going. So yeah, there was quite a bit. And you know, the funny thing is tea and when you talk about social media again, people can only go and pick certain parts of interviews you've done or certain parts of a podcast clip, and that's.
What they're gonna post.
And so then the world goes crazy like, oh, well she said this, but no, did you listen to the entire clip or the entire episode to know exactly what we were talking about. So it does get to a point at times where it's like, like, what what am I really doing? And is this where I want to be? Is this a space I want to be in? But yeah, because I feel like if anyone has earned that right to talk about the game and to talk about the players and to talk about what we're doing.
Today, that I should be able to do that. Yeah, for sure.
But there are people though, that are like, no, you don't have that right.
Le'm me just tell you.
Yeah, I will run through a brick wall for both of you, and I turned off play about them right back to media. And so there's been times in the last year where I had to hold some of my media friends accountable because they've written articles about you that were not pleasant or didn't have the full context of the story, and you know, I checked them on it, like, hey, like, why are you writing this one piece to create this narrative? And I think that especially in the w NBA space, we've seen how that can play out with the Christine Brennan situation.
For those of you who don't know, there's a US.
Today columnist, Christine Brennan, and she's writing a book about Kaitlyn Clark. But also she's been in Indianapolis's past year covering the fever and Caitlyn Clark and the whole thing with dj N. Carrington came up with the ipoke and she just sensationalized the ipoke and yeah, a lot of it was not an ipope. It wasn't it was a but anyway, it's just how media have been been creating these narratives about the black players and the bigger context of how that can play out. No, absolutely, I think the difference between me and Christina is Christina will like, very politely and very casually and very professionally say hey, you're out of pocket. So Rika will absolutely clasp back and be.
Like, yore talking too fast. Because I'm from Detroit, I'd be like, hey, y'all are you talking to me?
The whole.
Friendships seven mile will come out. You'll be like Eminem go to down all of it. The whole thing will come out like it's just which is very different. And so you know, I say all the time, I was like, I'm not your average journalist. Now guys like I will. But I think sometimes it's necessary because for that very reason, Like people again take what they think, they see, what they think they hear, and they will continue to push that button if.
You allow them.
And of course there's only so much you can do from behind a keyboard, right, But what I find hilarious is that when we are out in public and we are at different venues, Like I remember specifically someone tweeting something crazy about Sheryl and then we were at an event for Final four and they were like, can we.
Have your photo? And I was like, ooh, should I pull the tweet?
See I'm the one that I'll be like, but no, keep that same energy you had on social media. But here's here's the biggest one for me though, because a lot of people want to take they want to use social media and they want to take whatever and turn it into a black versus white thing.
It's not that at all.
It's because one thing that I am always gonna do is stand up for players, period. And I remember this past season when uh yeah, when Chicago Sky played Indiana, Diamond Deshiel's who foul Caitlin and which it was a foul they call the foul blah blah blah ah. That so game's over and Diamond's getting all all these ugly tweets and messages. So for those who don't know, like Diamond de Shills was really sick, like very very sick. She had a tumor and I remember, like some of the fans were tweeting like, I hope the tumor comes back and you die from it next time. So I responded, right, I responded and said Diamond, like we're here, we got your back, keep being you, blah blah blah. Well, they they thought that I was talking about the foul because for me at that point, it wasn't even about basketball, but it's about a person, a human being in her life. And so then because I said what I said to her, then they came for me right like, oh, you're just a racist, and you don't. I don't respond to everybody, but there are certain times like when I have time on that day and this day, I had time time. So I'm more of a tarika, not a Christina, God bless you.
For it's not wrong with being a Christina, y'all.
I just you know, I guess the bottom line for me is and you see it on the NBA side, but for me, it's about like these young women and men, like they work their asses off to get to where they are and doing what they do. And how dare you feel like you can just sit on your computer or your phone and just just go in and say some of the craziest, dumbest things about someone that you don't even know.
Yeah, and you don't even.
Know what her story is and the journey she's been through to just to walk again, right, And that's where I was coming from, like I know your story.
Don't let all of what these.
People are saying about you on social media like take you to a not so good place, because it's very easy for that to happen.
Yeah.
This it actually reminds me of a conversation that Christina and I were having yesterday when we were talking about like getting people an opportunity to know players and know the game before right now, like right now, how women's sports is like the thing, right, Women's basketball is the thing right when you look at viewership numbers. You can see that NBA viewership is actually down this year, w NBA viewership is up right, And that's and that's a wonderful. Yes, please give a clap for that, because that is how long did we wait to get to this space. I'm actually thinking it's really funny that we're shading the NBA at NBA also, that's hilarious.
But is that where we are? That's where we are.
But I say I bring all that to say there is an opportunity that is available for us to be able to educate fans in new fans right, because there's this thing that they say, we're like we're gatekeeping. I'm like, first of all words meeting things, we're not gaatekeeping. We are not hindering you from buying tickets, we are not hindering you from using Google.
You can do whatever you want to do in the women's sports space.
But there's this thing that people say, like we're gatekeeping, or that we are not well to new women's sports fans WNBA fans specifically, and I don't think that's the case. I am one who thinks that we are very welcoming to women's basketball fans and We want people to enjoy the game. We also want you to respect the history. Right, if you've been an NBA fan for five years, you're not gonna come out here talking about John Morant is the goat.
You gonna be like, wait a minute, did you.
Forget like all the people who before you know what I mean, you'd playing wait dunk contest?
You do forget Vince car existed? Like what do we do?
You know what I mean?
Like?
There are things? There are levels.
There are levels, hello, Like there are levels to how we get here.
And I think our issue all.
The pun intended on that, by the way, but I think that there are there are Our issue has just simply been before we got to where we are in twenty twenty five, there was a whole slew of people that came from nineteen ninety seven to this point, and that slew of people have to be recognized and respected, and those stories aren't being told enough to where new fans have to be open to wanting to listen and learn those stories.
And it it definitely has a part with coverage.
We know coverage with different than and investment was different then than it is now. But it's available, like you can YouTube previous All Star games. You can YouTube, and you can google. You know where we started, how we got here. You get google that nineteen ninety six Olympic team, you know what I mean. Like, I was so excited to see that doc Cheryl at thirty for thirty. It was so good, and I'm just like, this is my childhood in front of me. Not to make you feel the way, but I was like, I was like, yeah, I was actually flexing low key.
I was like, hey, y'all see Cheryl, that's my girl, my girl.
Speech.
You know what I'm saying. I was like, oh, y'all see Dawn. I'm about to text.
But it's just like, those stories have to be told in order for folks to understand why we're so protective of the game and why we will continue to be protective of this space. It's not one that we're going to let people enter with false narratives. It's one that we want you to come and enjoy, but we want you to come and enjoy with a clear vision of where and how we got here.
Yeah, because we we want you to come and be a part of something we've been building from day one, right and to be excited about it and to support the league, right, And it's so okay for you to have a favorite player. We all do, right, Asia Wilson is my favorite player, right get away? Yeah right, But I just because I want to tell this story real quickly before I have to go.
So I went this morning to do a toast for.
Asia Wilson, who's getting her own to Nature shoe finally, And what I said.
To her was yeah, seriously yes.
But what I said to her was, Sabrina and Escu has a shoe. But Asia Wilson the first black female in thirty years since I got my shoes. But you know what's really interesting about this moment where we are, and it's not just Asia but Sabrina with a shoe and Asia with a shoe, and Caitlyn getting a shoe, Like that's a real thing.
Now.
Back in the day in nineteen ninety seven, when Nike gave me my first shoe, people looked at them like, what in the hell are y'all thinking giving a female her own shoe. No one's gonna buy it, no one's gonna wear it. But like Nike thought outside the box, and now you have all these different brands and people right that are like.
Oh, women's basketball is the thing.
So I was telling Asia in ninety seven when I signed with Nike, Nike didn't even have a women's sports marketing division. It was just like a here you go, here's the room, do what you gotta do with it. And so what really excites me today about where we are is it's not just the things that the women are getting on the court. You have all these women and brands who are saying we see you, we hear you, we need you.
So you have the Angel Reeses, the.
Caitlan Clarks, the DJN Carrington's, the Rakia Jackson's, the Asia like doing things that we only could dream of. And my very first Nike contract when I signed in ninety seven was like one hundred and seventy five.
Thousand dollars wow, which then I was like, oh my god, I've made it right.
And today to see a player like an Asia and a Caitlin Clark signing a twenty million dollar contract, yeah, like, I don't even know what to say about that, because I never thought that I would see this day when we started the w back at ninety seven, where we're sitting here actually talking about how far the game has come and these million dollar contracts that female basketball players are now signing. That's what ninety seven to where we are today, that's what it was for us. It was about being able to be in this moment and share in this moment with everything that women's basketball is experiencing today.
And I was to say, from a media perspective, I'm so grateful for Iheartwomen's Sports back because even seven years ago it was just so unheard of. Right to have a network like this exists where you can have women's sports programming every single day, available shows, available, opportunities available for people in the media to be able to amplify the stories of these athletes. And now that the game is growing and the momentum is, you know, picking up, we have iHeart Women's Sports. We have just women's sports, the w n B, a w Slam, overtime, women's basketball. You see people are starting to invest and not see it as.
A charity or I'm supporting women. It's just you want to do it. You want to invest because you want to do it. Yeah. Yeah.
As we get ready to wrap up here, we just have to take a couple of things away from this conversation on our podcast. This is what we call leveling off, where we one one to make sure that when we leave here and we see our media people, when we see our athletes and we see folks who really work hard in this industry, you just understand like there are two sides of everyone, right, there's the professional side and there's the chill side. And this is really just my disclaimer that if you see me at a party later, don't be coming with me talking about I see you to nah you plank that was that was Terica Foster t you got a drink in a hand, Let me alone.
Okay, that's that. But also just.
Keep an open mind on inclusivity when it comes to how people receive women women's sports, and that everything that we have to do is different, right, every every approach to specifically the W is different. Like we love to continue to see how much W players are getting love even this weekend at NBA All Star, the activations, the amount of people that are excited. I mean, we had Tiffany Hayes on the show yesterday part.
Of the Golden State Valkyries.
The league is expanding and so all of these new opportunities are happening and we love to see how fans are embracing these women and embracing this new opportunity for women, but also understand even in those things, there are still some some very small but significant differences in how we discuss women and how we talk about women. Even something is we're definitely if you're here, Like I could be a snack, but can I not be a snack in my job?
You know what I'm saying, I'm a.
Do you know?
Do you guys know who I am? You know I am?
But yeah, Like it's just it's just there's a there's a way that we discussed that we talk about. I mean even as far as something as being a mom and being a basketball player, right, Like, it's something that we don't discuss. We don't discuss dads having to not be home at Christmas or notving to you know, not be not that they don't do it or don't have to think about it, but it's just not something that's discussed. It's normal, right for a woman to have to be pregnant play basketball, miss games, have to go on the back, breastfeed, come back out.
You remember a Dia Dia.
Barnes two seasons pregnant and made the all start the playoffs.
Yes, yes, Kim Calwell just quite literally had a baby and a week later she was back out there pretendency coaching like these are the kinds of incredible women that we have in this space, and so we just have to think about how we cover them and how we celebrate them differently than we do. But at the end of the day, I have really enjoyed this conversation with both of you. I hope that all of you guys take a moment to pull out your phones and follow levels to this on all of your podcasting where that's Apple Podcasts. I heartpot Spotify also in case you missed it, with Christina Williams. Every week she has incredible guests on to keep you updated on what you may have missed in the women's sports space.
And Cheryl, what are you getting ready to go?
Do?
I gotta go?
Sorry, my son is in the G League slam dunk contests.
Sorry, I gotta I gotta go. Y'all, thanks for being here. Thank you guys so much for having us.
Well. I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation and maybe you took away some things from it that have impacted you.
I'm super excited to be.
Back in a group of things, navigating so much in my personal life, but just happy to be back. There's lots of excited things happening in and around women's sports, and so I'll see you guys next week, and we're gonna be back to our regular schedule programming. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe.
To the podcast. I'll see you guys next week.
In case you missed it with Christina Williams is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
