I Choose Me with Jennie GarthI Choose...To Know I Am Worthy with Jamie Kern Lima
Founder of global beauty brand "It Cosmetics", author, and podcast host, Jamie Kern Lima, sits down for an interview with Jennie about the importance of never dimming your light!
From a snap decision to sign up for the first season of "Big Brother" to starting a beauty business in her living room...to finding out she was adopted at 29 years old...Jamie is an open book in this intimate conversation.
Plus, this female founder is giving a hot tip anyone starting a business should try!
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garland. Hi, everyone, welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about the choices we make and where they lead us. My guest today has had a very unique path to success. From pageants to reality TV to founding what would become a globally recognized beauty brand, she has blazed her own trail. She is the founder of IT Cosmetics and a two time New York best selling author of the books Believe It and Worthy. Maybe you've seen her as a guest shark on Shark Tank, or maybe you listen to her gorgeous podcast. Please welcome Jamie Kern Lima to the podcast.
Thank you so much for having me. It's so great to be here with you. We're both sitting here barefoot, cozy, and I'm just honored and excited for our conversation.
I'm so glad you're here.
I'm very happy to hear out with you me too. Today. Before we get into the business and the founder talk, which I love to get into, we have something in common, you and I. We both started out in pageants.
Oh, I didn't know that you did.
I didn't know that you did it until I did this research. But I was in the Lake Have a Suit Cinderella Scholarship pageant, Yeah, in nineteen eighty eight, and you were Miss Washington, USA, Yes, in nineteen ninety nine.
Yes, wow, Yes, it's funny.
I had never been raised around them or anything at all, and I was working all these jobs trying to save up for school, and I was like, oh, you can make you can you know, if you win, you can get a scholarship, right, Yeah. So so I did it a little bit, and it was it was an experience.
How is yours?
Well, I only did it one time. Okay, I was one and done.
Yeah.
This was my first experience with anything like this. Yeah, being on stage, being in the spot light, anything. And I learned that when it's go time, when it's your turn to walk out on that stage, you drop everything and you just give it all you've got, because if you're in a pageant, you probably want to win.
Yeah. Yeah, Like there's something that takes over you.
How did you do in your like how did you feel? Were you nervous it all up there your first time? Were you like, oh, yeah, what in the world am I doing?
Or where you're like.
Sure, I could hardly even speak. Is there anything that stood out for you, like how long did you do them? And yeah, how what did you learn from that experience? Yeah, I just did a couple in this really short window. I was always nervous.
I think that I had so much at the time, and then for maybe two decades after that, Like a lot of people hear my story about building a big company or whatever, and they just think, I'm like so confident. But most of my life I really felt like I wasn't enough. I kind of felt and I didn't realize that that would impact every area of my life, you know, and I know so many of us. I think it's eighty percent of women don't leave there enough. And so at that moment in my life, it was my early twenties, late late teens, early twenties, that little window. I just remember, Jenny. I remember I would always be shaking physically. So I one of them. The first one I did that I didn't win. I had this white satin gown and after the pageant, Everyone's like, why.
Was there a fan on? Because it was it was.
Blow it was shaking the whole thing, and I was like, I don't think there was a fan on, And I watched the video.
It was me shaking, okay shaking. It was shaking because I was just so it's.
Nerve wracking stand yeah in front of people and putting yourself out there like that, yeah, and just being like who I am is enough?
And I wasn't there yet at that point in my life.
And so I went for it.
I was trying. I was I was trying.
I was hoping at some like I was hoping confidence would just come to me or something.
But I did go for it. I did try, I did.
Want it, And I think also, I don't know, I'm actually so curious if you've had a moment like this, because you've done and continue to do so many incredible things in your career and everything you're doing now with QVC, with all with your show. But I remember when I was a little girl, I was probably around eight years old, and there was this moment. I would always watch Oprah every day, and there's this moment where Barbara Walters interviewed Oprah and Oprah said to Oprah said to Barbara, this was earlier in Oprah's career. She said, I always knew I was destined for greatness. And I remember as a little girl, like I had this kind of whisper that was like.
Me too, I feel like I'm supposed to.
Do something that's going to either help a lot of people or I didn't know what it was, but had that feeling. And I'll also never forget then she just got destroyed in the press for it. I think at the time, they weren't used to like a woman speaking confidently or saying she got out.
She crashed for saying yeah, I was born for greatness.
Yeah, like I'm destined to do something like great Yeah, there's greatness inside of me. I think it just wasn't common at that point for a woman to be to just make a declaration like that. And anyhow, I so I think when I, you know, fast forward, I don't know, fifteen years when I entered a pageant, I think I was just trying to figure out what is that thing where I'm supposed to blossom or or be dustined for a greatness in or somehow help a lot of other people. And so it's interesting because most of my life was a lot of setbacks and and you know, just for anybody maybe who's listening and having this conversation with us right now, I think a lot of us have those little whispers like, oh, I'm made to do, you know, either to put my art out in the world, or serve or create, or help someone else or help other people make it through the thing I went through, or I'm curious with you just given how much you've done life, oh my goodness, and continue to did you when you were a little growing up, did you ever have kind of like a whisper like, Oh, I'm maybe supposed to be I'm supposed to do things that maybe are different from my friends or the people I was raised around, or my environment or the examples I've been shown, or that kind of thing.
Yes, when I was growing up, No, I never questioned anything. Yeah, I never had any plans. Yeah, I never had like that thing that I wanted and I was going to work for. I never knew myself well enough. Yeah, and then I got into the business, and then I really didn't know myself for many, many years.
Right, So it's been a ride.
It's been a journey for me to figure out who am I?
Who am I? Right right?
Did you before you got in the business, did you have did you kind of feel like because obviously what I love so much by the way, about your show is like everyone with us now and just real having a real conversation. I remember for decades always watching you, knowing of you all the things right, celebrating another woman who's crushing it out there in the world. Did you ever have that little whisper before any of that happened, like Oh, I'm gonna do something, maybe not a plan or anything, but like, oh, I'm you know, I was made extra special or I'm going to do something that's extraordinary.
Yeah, my story is a little different than that. I spent a lot of time downplaying my extra specialness or not letting my light shine for various reasons. But it was certainly has been a lifelong journey for me to find out that it's okay to be special, it's okay to love myself that much and be confident in who I am and not be ashamed of that. You know. Yeah, it sounds like you had that from an early age, and the pageants really sort of brought that out in you.
A little bit.
Yeah, and I you know, it's interesting, Jenny, I am. I kind of always believed the lie until maybe just a few years ago.
I always believe.
The lie if I achieve enough, then I'll finally be enough, like a if I achieve enough, then.
I'll be worthy of love.
And so you know how we're sort of raised thinking like, well, you know see commercials everywhere like oh, if you get six pack apps, then you'll be happy, or if you get this dream car, then you'll be happy, or whatever it might be, the white picket fence.
And so I sort of did.
I sort of took this route where you know, oh, if I finally get that thing, if I finally build that business, if I finally whatever it might be, and no matter what, I would finally accomplish, win this award, whatever it is, I would arrive at it.
And I think a lot of us have had this experience.
We think like, oh, once I hit my goal weight or whatever it might be, I would arrive at it and be like, why is it I still feel like it's not enough, and why don't I feel all the things I thought I would feel when I finally got the thing. And then I'd be like, oh, it must just mean I need to actually do more. And that was like a cycle. And I remember I was about to turn forty, and my whole life I dreamed of meeting Oprah and I had then, you know, I spent over a decade building at cosmetics and all these things, was doing one hundred hour weeks and I was about to turn forty, and long story short, my assistant had written this letter.
I didn't know she wrote a letter.
My assistant at cosmetics had wrote a letter and somehow got it to Oprah's chief of staff and they arranged this whole thing where I was going to be surprised and meet her at one of her events. And I didn't know any of this was happening. And I thought at the time, I was really confident at that point in my life, like I had built the business I had, you know, worked so hard and all the things we had, millions of customers. Everything on paper looked like I should be so confident and feel so worthy. And that day at her event in California, they took me backstage and I met Oprah.
And you must have been like dying.
Oh my gosh, I was, Yeah, you watched her.
Since you were a little girl, Yeah, since I was little, And I always felt a whisper like I would meet her one day, which made no sense because growing up I didn't know anybody who knew anybody, you know what I mean.
I was like in a suburb of Washington State. So I met her backstage. I then got a call later where she invited me to her house for lunch. We had a three hour lunch. At the end of it, she gives me her cell number and she says, call me anytime. You can call me anytime. I did not call her for four years. Four years goes by, and I would tell myself these stories, like, oh, I just need to think of the perfect thing to say, then I'll call her, or oh, you know, maybe I need to I'm gonna prove everyone probably wants something from her.
I'm going to approve to her. I don't need anything, like I don't need a new car, like I.
Don't need like be able to prove it. I would just tell myself these stories. Four years later, I realized the real reason I hadn't called her was because deep down inside, I didn't believe I was worthy of being her friend.
I can imagine that. I mean, yeah, that's a big that's a big phone number to get in your contact list.
Yeah, and it's and it's wild because at the time I didn't understand that self confidence is very different than self worth. So I had built a lot of self confidence through all of these external achievements, but deep down inside, I didn't think I was enough. And what I now know is that we will sabotage things we don't believe we're worthy of, and and that our self worth is our ceiling.
Right.
It's why you can meet so many people who are amazing and you're like, why is she so amazing but she's in this relationship with this person that treats her terribly, or she's so amazing, but she won't put her art out there or her talent or her ideas or raise her hand.
And it's because if we.
Don't deep inside believe we're worthy of, it will sabotage it. And I realize, like, oh my gosh, you can't out succeed your level of self worth. So even though at the time I was so career successful, I didn't think I was enough. So that was when I became obsessed with studying self worth. It's why I launched my podcast, The Jamie cern Lima Show, because I'm like, I want to have these great conversations which I'm so excited.
I'm praying you come on into the show. I will be there, yeah, because I want to.
I just feel like it's so new. And thank you, by the way for having a conversation like this, because it's so new that we come together and share our experiences. Because on the outside, on the outside, I would never know, Jenny, that you would ever struggle to shine your light. And so probably on the outside, someone maybe if they've read part of my story that the press sures, which is always like Denny's waitress builds billion dollar company, they might think.
Oh, she probably feels worthy.
But on the inside, like sharing these real things I helped, I think helps so many people feel less alone and more enough because otherwise we're sitting at home, we're a scroll on Instagram, and I'm like, Jenny Garth would never not shine her light, you know, And that's.
What we think.
And I look at you and I think, you've built this amazing business, you have achieved such success, and you have this beautiful show, Like I think the same thing of you, Like I wouldn't imagine that you struggled like that.
Yeah, yeah, And I feel like for me, I still do.
I still so too, do you?
I mean you think you're there?
Yeah?
You think you've done in the work. You think you've put in the hours you know of soul searching and contemplating and do therapy and doing all the things that we have to do to do that work. And then like that, it'll come back. Yes, like and just like a like you know when you turn on the gas burner the stove and it goes. Yes, that's the feeling when an emotion takes over or something triggers you and it sends you right back to that place of unworthiness or of I have to hide my light or what you were talking about before about sabotaging things.
Yes, that I'm really good at, are you.
Yeah, I've for years told myself relationships are not for me. I am not good in relationships, and because they're hard, and I'm such an independent woman, I've always have that like, well, I can just go off on my own and be just fine, you know, but I will do whatever I can to sabotage a relationship so that it breaks before I break it.
Yes, do you do that in friendships and like all kinds of relationships just romantic.
Yeah, yeah, I'm working through that. I'm so close to getting it right. But like I said, set backs come, triggers happen, and you're right back there. But I think it's so important that you recognize, Okay, this is just a trigger from something in my past. This is something I've done so much work on, and I know what this is. I know how to handle this. I know how to get through this.
Yeah.
And then you go and you sit with yourself for a while and you be quiet, and you see what happens, because usually it will work itself out because you have that place of knowledge about what you've worked through.
Feel like, I know what this is.
I know what this is. Yeah, you can identify it, you can get through it. I feel like, yeah, I didn't know this. But you were a contestant on the first season of Big Brother, which everybody watched. Yes, that was in two thousand.
Yes, what was that?
Like?
That was wild? How did you get into that house?
Oh?
Oh my gosh.
So I was in my senior year of college in Washington State, middle of nowhere, like a small town Pulman, Washington, and uh there. I had seen Real World a long time ago before that, but reality TV wasn't sort of like a genre yet, and so I didn't even know what it was. And I'm on IM at school and there's these flyers everywhere for this uh casting call for Big Brother.
Those flyers get in there.
Yeah, I don't know, they must have.
I think I think the production company just did a nationwide wow.
Yeah.
And you know, social media wasn't there really yet. There was blogs online and AOL was live streaming. Other than that, yeah, there were flyers, and we're like, oh, what's this. And so me and a bunch of friends we all just sent a tape in, which was a VHS tape, by the way, and we sent to tape in and I got a call and and did an interview, and then it just sort of like the whole thing kept going from I don't know how many thousands of people down to the final seventy five. We all got flown to LA and we went through this like week long interview process and I eventually got picked as one of ten people to go on Big Brother. Now I didn't know what it was like. I didn't fully understand. Survivor wasn't here yet, none, none of the Yeah, and so we were locked in a house for three months and it was on a studio in Burbank.
Three months, I think three months. Have they shortened terms now, I don't know if.
They've shortened it.
Well, And you know, my season was season one, so it was really different and meaning that I think they were learning what works in reality shows. And so my season nobody hat, nobody fought, nobody had sex, nobody, there was no big drama. But how they did it was. But you know, you were locked in this house with with ten strangers, were locked in the house, and then every week the whole American public would call in and vote you off. And so some people were there just so weak.
Yeah it was.
And then and I was there the whole three months. I got kicked off the day before the end.
Uh oh, but go, I think.
But here's what was crazy was that there were seventy cameras throughout the house, a kid in cameras. There was a camera in the shower and the old I know, yes, And the only place there was no camera was in there was like a small toilet room, like a toilet and a tiny room, but there was a hanging microphone in it.
Okay, yeah, it's weird.
And now I'm you know, I go, I've never had siblings that I've lived with, and I was so shy and private in terms of, you know, changing these personal things. It was honestly the biggest And what I didn't realize, so you guys, imagine you're locked in. You're locked in this house, and you're at that time it was airing Big Brother was airing six nights a week on CBS Prime Time, and you know it was and you're in this house. You have no technology, so you don't know what's airing every night, and it was live streaming over AOL. And so I walked in there this really really broke college student. I walked out a really broke college student. Except it was sort of so new that it was the first time I had ever experienced what they call fifteen minutes of fame, where you can't even walk down the street. We had all this had stalkers. I'd have all these stalkers that would show up at my parents' house that one guy had built. I guess, one guy who was not well had built this robot and he believed it was me living with him. And it was so scary that FBI got invought. And what I've realized is, at the time, unli like talented actors like yourself who have built this.
Career and then have money and can protect yourself. You're just like thrown out. You're just thrown out, and you have all these stalkers.
You're like, I can't even afford you know, an apartment that has two locks on the door, Like you're just like, wow. It was wild, but the thing I am also, it was the first time. You know, now we're all so used to the Internet with trolls and comments and this and that, and it's like, you can't breathe in twenty twenty five without getting fifty million haters and fifty million people love you, and it's just what it is. It's everything so divisive. But this was brand new back then, and so I remember we walked out of the house and it was a huge It was a challenge in the sense of everyone had a million websites from fans, but a million hate sites from fans. It was just a whole thing. So it was kind of wild. I'm grateful I did it. I became a lot more uninhibited and I got tat I had to oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
Yes, that's such an incredible experience you have had. Not a lot of people have that. I mean in this day and age, probably more and more and more, but right back then.
Back then, Yeah, my family, my family's like, what is a reality show? I'm like, I don't know, I don't know, And yeah, it was. The whole thing was was kind of wild. So yeah, I'm just in love with this sort of non traditional path that you've taken, the pageants, the reality TV let's talk beauty brand founder. Yeah, because you did something huge that not a lot of people can do. You are widely known for creating the hugely successful brand IT Cosmetics.
Yeah.
I love something that you said early. I think it was about starting your brand. You said, sometimes a no is just not yet. Yeah, So tell me about the nos that you had to endure to get to that moment when someone said, yes, I want to help you with this.
I'm so grateful you're asking this question because I think a lot of people just think maybe it was luck or that it was easy, or or they're getting knows in their life and they think it's some indication that it's not their idea is not going to work, or their product or their book or whatever it might be. Jenny, from the moment, so really quick in terms of traditional, non traditional path you know, I always thought, especially watching Oprah growing up, I was like, one day, I'm going to share other people's stories with the world. I just thought that's what I would do. And so I did all these jobs to eventually did Big Brother all the things. But eventually I was working in television news and I thought that was my dream job. And I thought I had that was it, and I was going to maybe do a talk show, which.
Makes it ironic. I'm now doing a podcas I love so much.
But what was the television news situation? Oh?
Yeah, so like did you sit at a desk? And yeah, I was a news anchor reporter.
I took my first job in Tri City's Washington, which is a pretty small town.
I loved it.
I anchored the morning news and then I would move up from there and I was anchoring in Portland, Oregon, and I thought I was in my dream job. And what I didn't realize was my dreams were gonna be about to take a tumble and like a big detour. So I have roseatia, which i'd been to dermatologists for there's no cure and for me on my cheeks and my forehead, what will happen is I'll get these flare ups where I get a lot of bumps and there's my skin will be bright red. It'll feel like sandpaper. I'd always been able to cover it with makeup.
It was no big deal.
And I was anchoring the news one day and I hear my earpiece from the producer, there's something on your face. There's something on your face. You need to wipe it off. You need to wipe it off. And I knew what it was.
But I thought, Okay, not a big deal.
In the commercial break, I glanced down and I tried to cover it and it wouldn't cover, and I would and then we're back on live and I hear in my earpiece it's still there.
It's still there, just what you need to hear.
Yeah, And you can't talk back because you're live and you're doing the news. And that day started a whole new season in my life. I thought it was a huge setback because I would try every makeup product out there, nothing would cover. It would start to crack like desert clay, and then the red would come through live on television.
Was it like the lights and the hot HD lights?
Yeah? Sure, yeah?
And I thought I was going to get fired, and I would have you know, I'd be live on the air and I would be talking and sharing stories in the news, but in my head I'd be thinking, like, am I costing the station ratings? Like our people turning the channel right now? And I'll never forget this moment. And I think all of us have moments like this in our lives. Maybe you had one when you launched the show, or when you had the idea for it, or or your amazing you know, fashion or I don't know, but I had remember this moment on set where I was like, Okay, this makes no sense. There's thousands of beauty companies out there. Why can't I find anything that works for me? And then I got this this kind of whisper this knowing that was like, if you can't find anything that works for you, there's probably a lot of other people out there that also can't find anything. Like what if you could figure out how to find great chemists and like launch your own thing. What if you could figure out how to create a product that works for you, It's probably going to help a whole lot of other people.
So I had that found that gap, you did the thing that gap.
But it took a minute because my gut told me that, but my head was like, might where all myself dot? It was like, oh, but you got no money, you don't know anything about the beauty industry, You're not qualified. And I sat in that place for a while, and I think where my life completely changed was the moment I decided to trust myself and like, trust that whisper, that knowing and go for it what I didn't know. And and thank you for your question because I think this. I think your question is going to be life changing for so many people listening who think like the nose they're getting are just them, or there's some indication that their thing has no potential, isn't going to make it. From the moment that I launched a cosmetics in my living room, it was over three years and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of no's and rejections, and over three years before I could even pay myself a penny, Like we were teetering on bankruptcy for so long, and I were doing this in your living room, in my living room, yeah yeah, and just try like you know all of it, I mean, no money, trying to figure out how to do every job, right, Like, my middle name is Marie, so Marie got her own email address. Marie was the head of pr okay and the head of customer service, and Marie would like email you know the Today Show and be like great news. Our founder Jamie Curly was available, friend, kids, amazing.
If you guys, if you're listening to this, this is such an inside hack. This is a good idea. Get another name, use your middle name, use your middle name for that's your first employee right.
There, exactly.
And you've got to do what you've got to do sometimes and you're just like and I just remember, I mean, it was so many years and the one thing I was I just I had this this I guess vision of because it when I when it didn't make sense to me that no products would work for me. I also realized I'd never seen at the time a beauty company having a model with bright red, bumpy skin saying buy this product.
It was always photoshopped images.
And so when I created it cosmetics, you know, I wanted to use models that were every age and shape and size and skin tone. And every retailer so that will not work like all of the stores, the department stores, in particular, would always say you have to use images of unattainable aspiration or women won't buy your product, meaning you can't even look like that because it's not real. But I was like, I, you know, growing up the ads I would see, I loved them, but they would often make me feel not enough. So I was like, Okay, how can I change this? How can I do something to help you to find beauty? Which was sort of like this big, god sized dream for someone who had no sales or success yet.
But it all came down.
So after three years of nos, we got one yes, one big yes from QVC and and it ended up being life changing. Now QVC had also said no for years, but we got one yes.
What happened? Why they why did they say yes if they had already said no, no.
Yeah, they had said no forever.
They said, uh, their head the head of QVC Beauty at the time, who's a legend, who is now such a dear friend and a mentor and I love him, Alan Burke. At the time, he said, you're not the right fit for QVC or our customers.
But what was it?
Do you think? Was it your persistence? And you're continuing to ask.
To finally get it.
Yeah. I mean, so this is one thing I would do every time I would sense a or old to a sample, and it was always it was like another no. I would even though sometimes I'd cry myself to sleep to them, I would always I'd always respond as if it will absolutely be a yes. So they'd tell me like no, and I'd be like, okay, well, one day when we are in your store, it's like, this product's going to change so many people's lives. And then if we would get maybe a press mentioned or something like that, I would send it to every retailer that had.
Said no and be like, look at this.
You know, buzz is spreading about cosmetics great news, and one day when we're in your store, it's going to impact so many women. And everything was as if it's one hundred percent happening amazing, and I just feel like either they thought I was absolutely nuts, but eventually they're probably like, if she's gonna, you know, be this persistent, she's probably going to figure out how to make sure she hit sales goals in our store. But with KIVC, I was at this big sort of beauty expo in New York. There are six thousand women there, all walking this event, and as a brand, you could get a three foot table to demonstrate your product and the hope is somebody discovers it, or you win an award, or the press covers it. And we were out of money, Jenny, it was like three years in. I had entered us a year ahead of time, and that at that event that day, I see that KVC had this giant booth there and even though I was told no over and over, I had never met anyone in person. And I remember standing at that booth. I was like praying for the right words. And you're not supposed to leave your booth that you that you're it's really a three foot table that you're demonstrating. I went straight over to the buyer at QVC and I just like poured my heart out to her, and she said she's willing to take a meeting, and then we flew to KVC, had a meeting, got a first yes, but we got one shot and it was a ten minute airing live on QVC to either hit their sales goals or not come back. We were only doing like one to two order's a day on our website. I had no money. We had to take out alone to fund the inventory to get one shot on QVC, because we had to sell over six thousand units of Concealer in this ten minute window. And here's the one thing that I want to share, just for anyone who's feeling like their ideas haven't gotten traction, or someone hasn't seen their value or hasn't you know, acknowledged their value or their potential. We hired third party consultants going on to this one big airing, and they all told me the same thing. They said, if you're going to have a shot at making it, because it is so hard, as you know, it is so hard to do well on QVC, and because you're competing against so many great brands all over the world for that one minute at airtime, they said, if you're going to have a shot at doing hitting these sales goals, here's what.
You need to do.
You need to use this type of model, which was all, you know, flawless skin, same skin tones, age, same size. And I just would say to them, Okay, I get that's what often works, that's what's always kind of worked. But what if what if I put models of every age and shape and size, and what if I take my own makeup off and like show my rosation and prove live on television the product works. And they were mortified. They were mortified, and they wanted me to win. They were just give me the best advice they knew how. And so when the moment came when we got our one shot on QVC, it's so wild. I walked in the building and I learned for the first time ever because we at that point, just to give everyone perspective, we had gotten an SBA loan. We had no money, and the loan funded this inventory that we were going to go on air have one shot in ten minutes to either sell out or it was a consignment offer from QVC and Beauty. So what that means was it if it didn't sell, we'd have to take all the product back and I would I wouldn't be paid, we would go bankrupt, we would be done. So it was everything was on the line, and I had made the decision to trust my gut, which I haven't always listened to in my life.
Right especially with some of the dudes I've dated. But that's another story.
But anyways, I made the decision to trust my gut and I cast real women like I had, you know, someone in her seventies, a hyper pigmentation, someone in her early twenties with acne, and every skin tone, every size, every age. I walk in the building for this one shot, and I learn, you're not even guaranteed you're ten minutes. If if you're a minute or two into your presentation and you're not hitting sales goals, your clock can jump down to one minute and you're done. You think you have eight minutes left, but it can jump. And I learned that, And I remember I was sweating so much, Jenny, that I put on I had on two pairs of spanks, double spanks. Not because I did not care what I looked like. I wanted to absorb all the sweat, like I didn't want to sweat through my dress. Other reason, right, Yeah, And I remember, and you'll relate to this so much because of how amazing you and your company does on QVC. But I remember walking in the studio and I saw the giant clock, the countdown clock, and it was starting at ten minutes. Yeah, the red clock, and the on air light goes on and it was like nine nine, nine fifty eight. And I remember I had practiced this demonstration in my bathroom ere so many times where on my wrist I would put our product and the top two selling ones in department stores, and I would bend my wrist back and forth, and the other ones would crease, and our concealer wouldn't It was so good, But all of a sudden, I'm live on TV. All the pressures on me. I don't know if we're either going to go bankrupt or my whole life's going to change. And I start trying to do this demonstration, but my hand's now shaking like a leaf, and the host grabs my hand, puts it under the podium.
She's like, thank you, sugar.
It was Lisa Mason is her name, and then she takes over. And then I remember the moment my bare face comes up on national television, right because QVC's broadcast to one hundred million homes. And I remember walking over to all the models, like every age and shape and size and skin tone like, and I viscerally in my body, I was calling them beautiful and meaning it, like beautiful models, like in every ounce of my being. And I remember we were a few minutes in and I didn't know how we were doing.
But I knew I wasn't cut yet. I was like, okay, this is good.
And then I remember we got down to the one minute mark and the host says, the deep shades almost gone, the tan shades almost sold out. And at the ten minute mark, the Giants sold out sign came up across the screen, and I remember I started crying on national television. Yeah, and they cut from me went to I think Dice in vacuum or something. And I'll never forget my best friend of twenty years. We met when I was waitressing at Denny's. She was also waitress at another restaurant and she was there modeling. She has a whole sleeve of a tattoo on her arm. We'd covered it with makeup. It was like, everything was great. She starts crying and then my husband comes rushing through the double doors and I just look at him, and I remember I was like.
Real, woman is broken, broken And I'm.
Just like what And I thought he's gonna come hug me, and he comes over to me. He just looks at me and he puts his fists in the air and he's like, we're.
Not going back runs.
And I was like, oh my god, what a messy beautiful moment.
It was wild.
Well that one moment QC giving us a shot and also me just saying, you know what, my gut hasn't proved me right yet, but I can't shake this feeling that, like I'm supposed to use real people's models, I'm supposed to stand for something to try and you know, shift this definition of beauty in the beauty industry. I'm supposed to help women at home feel seen, feel feel enough, feel beautiful. And I trusted it, and that one airing turned into five that year, and then one hundred and won the next year, and then we built what became the biggest beauty brand in QVC's history, which is wild because and I just want to say this for everyone listening, it was years of everyone saying no, including QVC, No, you're not the right fit.
Uh.
And so what I know, be on a shadow of a doubt is someone else's no is no indication that your idea is not going to work, or that your business isn't going to make it, or that you know you're not going to become one of the most celebrated talents in our country. As I point to you, like someone else's no, is no indication.
And that's great.
Yeah, so and there it's been such a journey after that. So forre, I said, you know, Alta said yes, first that Sephora, and then.
Chips just started falling in and it was.
A lot of work.
You know, it was a lot of work and still a lot more knows along the way and we eventually built to over thousand employees.
Wow.
And then in twenty sixteen Loril bought it cosmetics.
Yes, is that something you wanted? Like when you create something and it's your baby from your living room to success like that, you have worked so hard and then you make that choice to sell it. I know you stayed on with Loriol for a time, but then you loved you walked away completely.
It was a wild journey. I so here's the real, raw truth. I think I had become addicted to work. Like we were working. I was working one hundred hour weeks for almost ten years. I feel like I was really good at like obsessing about the company, loving our customers, obsessing about products, not launching unless they were incredible.
But that is all I did. Well.
I was not a great wife. I was not a great owner of a body or steward of health. I pretty much was just addicted to work.
I was so obsessed with it.
So two reasons why I felt it made sense to sell the company. One was that we were trying to launch in more countries. So we had launched into soup fora Southeast Asia and Australia, and I realized, like, oh my gosh, every country has different regulatory compliance, different HR laws. If we want to expand this vision of beauty and inclusivity, like we can do it on our own, it's going to be slow. Loreal, a company like Lareel has teams on the ground and over one hundred countries that just like understand at a granular level, they have that infrastructure. Yes, the infrastructure, so we could scale this really cool mission that I was so passionate about so much faster. So that was a big part of it. And the other part was that, you know, I'd spent ten years also trying to have a baby. It had so many miscarriages and was doing fertility treatments and was just under so much stress that I thought, if I keep this company or take it public. I thought about taking it public, but if you take it public, you're still doing one hundred hour weeks forever. I mean, it's just I mean, you don't have to, but I knew that I would. So it was kind of two parts. And I am so grateful that we had gotten to the point where there was.
Interest in our company.
And the other thing that's wild is that, you know, because when you put this thing in perspective, and again I'm just thinking of everyone listening to us and watching right now, is for years nobody thought this would work. Everybody said, no, we had no money. I was trying to figure out how to do a million jobs the best I could, not knowing what the heck I was doing.
That's what it is when you start your own brands.
When you start your own.
Brands training you didn't go to school for it.
Yeah, yeah, and it's making it up as you go.
And it's so hard when it's your own thing to turn it off, Like you can't just clock out.
Yeah. I wanted to ask you about that, like, because I know when it's your brand. Yeah, you are the face of the brand. Yeah, everything is on your shoulders.
Yeah.
What do you do when you reach those moments where maybe there was a mistake made, maybe things didn't go the way you wanted them to go.
Maybe you are just tired.
Yeah, because it's like you said, one hundred hour work.
Yeah yeah.
What do you do to persevere? What do you do to pump yourself up day in a day out?
Yeah?
For me, I had a whole journal of my you know, reasons why I was doing it. I would have a stack that I'd bring into the KVC green room for every show, because this is what you know, Everything often looks so different on the outside than it is when you're the person, you know, kind of behind the scenes, and or you're the entrepreneur. You're the one that feels like it's all on your shoulders, or you're the one trying to run your household and hold it all together. You know, we all have these same experiences that might just look a little different. But I would keep a stack of letters customers write posts that they would do. I would have them all printed in this giant stack. And when I just felt like I can't even go, I can't even you know, because we doing two hundred and fifty shows a year on KVC, I always still felt like I had to strike while the iron's hot, Like we could lose this at any moment like it took me a long time to believe I was worthy of the success we were having, right, And I would read these letters and read these emails and be like, Okay, I couldn't make it about me, is my answer? And I think this is a great tool for anybody, is I would.
I love this idea of the cards? Yeah?
Yeah, with with people that had been impacted by the product or love the message, or maybe they'd never bought a product, but they're like, you know what, I used to be embarrassed with my roseation, but now I see you showing it with pride on television, taking your makeup off, Like you know, I now feel more confident leaving the house.
I just got back on the dating app, and you know, I've never tried your pot.
Maybe I will one day, but I feel more confident now and I want to say thank you or you know, I would just read those and I would realize, Okay, this is bigger than me. And I think, you know, whether for someone it's saving the note their daughter wrote, or saving the moment that something happened with the stranger, or I just feel like if if I only made it about me, I don't think I could have persevered through all the nose and also even trying to carry the weight of all the success. And I think also it really was a journey. Am I worthy of this? I'll also and trying to I guess back to how we started this. When you're saying, you know, not dimming your own light. It took me a long time in that regard. And what a lot of people don't know, Jenny, is when you know we were told no for years by everybody. And I'll never forget the first time Loreal made an offer to buy the company. It was so much money, way more than I could ever imagine when I was waitressing at Denny, you know what I mean.
But for the first time, I.
Also knew that we were worth more, our company was worth more, and I actually said no. We said no to Loreal's offer by the business, and a lot of people don't know that. And I believe in divine timing. I believe our steps are ordered. And what was wild is when we had said no to their offer, we started getting other offers as well that were bigger, and then Lorel came back to us, and it's so weird. I don't know if I've actually processed this in my life yet. But you know, they paid one point two billion dollars cash for this company that I started in my living room that for years everyone said wouldn't work and everyone said no, and isn't that wild? Yeah, And they made me the first woman to hold a CEO title of a brand in their one hundred and eight year history at the time, and all of that felt so big, And it was also still that same journey that we all have, whether it's you know, you know, I want to go meet that person and say, do you want to be friends because I want to make friends as an adult, or I want to audition for the part, or I want to start my own fashion line, or I want to start a podcast too, or I want to write a book, or it's that journey of am I worthy of this? And deep down inside our soul knows that we are, but like our mind will talk us out of it so quick And so I think, I think one of the moments because a lot of my life, I've doubted myself out of my own destiny, or I've let myself doubt take over.
Easy to do, so easy to do.
But with Loriel, that was one of the moments where it was like, Okay, I know, I know our company is worth this much, and then and I'm grateful.
That's story man.
Wow, I mean and it was honestly for me, a lot of prayer, Like there were moments where I'm like, Okay, I do believe it my core. God can dream a bigger dream for us than we can for ourselves. And I also believe rejections God's protection. So the whole journey, when I would get these painful nose, I would my first default is, oh, it means I'm not enough. It means this is never gonna work. And I would just go, no, no, no, let me lean on my faith. Let me I'm going to decide to assign this meaning to the rejection of like God's got something better coming or or God's blocking my value from them because they're not assigned to my destiny. I would convince myself of what rejection meant so that I wouldn't let it take me down.
It was another thing. Yeah, that's so.
Important because you have to persevere. Perseverance is the key to success. You also have a very successful podcast, Jamie. You currently show you just told me it's a year. Yes, yes, you celebrated a year anniversary. That's amazing.
Well, and you know what's kind of wild, just given what we've been talking about.
I felt from.
The time I was a little girl that I was going to do that. And so when the show launched, I asked Oprah to be the first guest and she said.
Yes, and that contact came in handy.
Yeah, and it's just a and it was getting to the point where I believed I was worthy of asking her.
Yeah, I love that you know which all of us are?
Every one of us is. It's like it's like really and learning all the lies. Yes, so to.
Believe it you are.
You recently had the Duchess of Sussex, Megan.
Yes, on the pod.
Yeah, and that was her very first podcast and podcast. Yes, you guys are close friends. Yeah, that's so cool that she was. She decided to come onto your podcast. Yeah for her big.
I was so honored and grateful, and I was grateful.
You know. It's funny.
It reminds me of this because you and I are sitting here at your home, we have our shoes off, We're just like hanging out like two friends, right, And and I was really honored to to hopefully show people how incredible of a friendship is.
No, that's the thing because as happens, you know, there was backlash on the internet. People always have their opinions, they say things, and I can imagine how challenging that is to be in her position and as a friend of hers, how important is it for you to sort of show the sides of Megan that you know, to sort of dilute all the other negative blah blah blah out there for her, because it's a lot.
Yeah, I can't even imagine all of it. I think when you know your whole career, you have been famous for so long, and do you ever feel that do you feel like people's perceptions is always like super accurate of who you are inside? Because for example, I never thought you would worry about dimming your light or anything like that.
And so I don't know. I think for me, nobody knows. Nobody knows.
Somebody knows what's going on inside someone else, Yes, until we ask them and get in there, you know, be curious.
Yeah, And so I think that was my hope is to is to really just share a great friendship conversation and share how beautiful of a soul she is and how great of a friend she is, and how she shows up for her friends, and how she's an incredible mom, and how you know, she spends you know, all of her energy wishing other people well. And so my prayer was just that people see that, you know, that was my prayer with all of it. And I really think, you know, in twenty twenty five, whether I think that we're in this day and time where for anybody, you know, they might be a teacher or a doctor or a lawyer, and all of a sudden there's stuff online about you know, everyone is kind of experiencing this.
Yeah, it's like.
The Help, the help review, yeah of you.
Yeah, And I feel like in twenty twenty five, I actually think, especially because you and I kind of started talking in the beginning about trying to not dim o light, especially as women, but a lot of people go through that. I actually think that, you know, so many people can see anybody right now, if you go google anybody you admire out there, you can find great things are not great things out there. And I think that what's so hard about cyber bullying, what's so hard about trolling on the internet, is it prevents so many people from even trying from even putting themselves out there, from thinking that they're worthy of, you know, taking a leadership position in a company or wanting you know, so many teachers and professors are you know, everybody deals with this nowadays because the everything that's online can just.
It can accumulate. Yeah, if not in the world, then in your mind, you can start to chip away at that worthiness that you've tried so hard to figure out for yourself.
I think that it holds a lot of people back from sharing their calling and their art and their talent and their business ideas with the world. And that's the thing that you know. I think that when you look at politics, or you look at really anything now, you really can't do anything without so many people being for you and so many people being against you. I can't wait until all of us are able to just like let it roll off of us like water off a ducts back and know, okay, that comes with it, but that's no reflection of who I am, and that's no reflection of my potential. And I think that I believe the truth always wins, and I think that all we can do is know who we are show up with our full heart, you know, and.
Trust that.
I feel like that's what Megan has done, and she's been put in that position of the scrutiny of the world, and what a what a position to step into. I'm sure it was really difficult, but I do see her as putting herself out there and really being open to receiving the good and the bad. But also there's you can tell, there's a goodness that wants to come through. You know that she wants to show people like people. She wants to let the world know that she is the real deal. She's true to who she is, and I like that about her. So I feel like that's a good friend you have. Rolling back for just a second, you were twenty nine when you found out you were adopted. Yes, twenty nine. That is late in a life to find out such earth breaking news.
Yeah, yeah, found out by surprise completely really, I had no idea. Yeah, I had no idea I was adopted. And when I found out, it sort of shook my whole world, and I think it almost felt like the whole rug was pulled out from Unerney. I'm like, wait a minute.
Who am I?
Who am I? Because I am closer my mom, who adopted me the day I was born. I am you know, she has been the closest person to me my entire life. I love my mom like I can't imagine loving someone more than her until my kids are born and my mom has now passed away. But I am like, I just love her. So never in my life did I imagine I was adopted. Yeah, I found out by accident.
Did you go looking for your birth pay?
I did.
After I found out, my mom went into the closet and this fireproof box, pulled out this paperwork and said like, maybe you've suspected this, And like, suspected what? And I had no idea and my dad, who they were divorced at that point, but he just never wanted me to know, and they just raised me as if they had me. And so I got this paperwork and then she handed me a little note with a gold necklace that had a medallion of the Virgin Mary on it, and the note said, you know, while the baby and I will never meet, please one day give her this necklace. My parents gave it to me when I was a little girl and let her know I love her. And it wasn't signed, and I had this paperwork and there was a name on it, but I didn't know if it was the right name. And I spent the next five years. I was working in television news at this point, so I thought, I can find anybody. I'm a journalist, I can find you know, all the things. And I spent five years searching for her, and eventually I found her. Eventually I found my birth mom, and she's now in my life. We were just together this past week. I just gave the yeah, I gave this commencement speech at Columbia University for their graduate business school, and she flew out, was there, you know, cheering me on. We're in each other's lives now. I found out I have two brothers, and it was yeah, I feel very blessed. And when she and my mom, who raised me, met, my mom just embraced her, went up to her and just said like, thank you for giving me the best gift I could have ever hoped for. And so you know, it's been a journey. Nothing's ever perfect, and she didn't think we would ever meet. So it took her a minute to go okay, because she hadn't told anyone in her life that she had ever given a baby up for a dog or you know, had placed me into adoption, so it took her a minute, and she I have two brothers, so she had to tell them and her husband, and I just I feel very I feel very blessed that they all just embraced me with open arms and that they're part of my life. But yeah, that was the whole That was the whole thing.
I'm sure that being sort of you must have felt like you've been kept in the dark for all these years and then this came out and that was probably a lot to come to terms with. And it kind of leads me to talking to you about your book, Worthy. How did writing that book help you process through all of this?
Yeah?
Worthy is you know I shared with you the Oprah moment when I realized, oh wow, I'm really confident, but I actually don't write. I have confidence, but I don't have self worth. And from that moment, on that day, four years after having Oprah's number, when I realized that, that was when I became obsessed with studying self worth and with trying to understand how do you build it?
How do you actually believe you're enough?
Like we're in a moment I shared I shared earlier that eighty percent of women don't believe theyre enough. In seventy three percent of men feel inadequate and not enough. And then you start, you know, I started becoming obsessed with understanding what does that mean? And how can I Why do I never feel enough? And how can I solve that? And why doesn't accomplishment solve it? Or hitting a goal weight that doesn't solve it? You know, falling in love that doesn't solve it. Either getting a great job that doesn't solve it?
Why?
And I became obsessed with studying self worth and realizing that your self worth is your seeling and how we sabotage stuff if we don't believe we're worthy of it, and so I am. And so that turned into years and years of studying it and then writing the book Worthy and I go into there's twenty different tools in there on how to and it's really again, and I think this is important. Building self worth, I believe, is not about learning all these things. I think it's really like unlearning, like unlearning all these lies that lead to self doubt and igniting those truths that wake up worthiness in us because every one of us, I don't know, who needs to hear this, Jenny, Everybody, everybody, every one of us, every single one of us is.
Fully innately worthy.
I do not care what past mistakes you've made, or things you wish you never did, or the shame you might attach to things. None of that actually impacts. None of that makes.
You not worthy. You're fully worthy.
And it's almost like reclaiming that worth is so important, you know, and again, and I love how just open you are about sharing. For you and for me, it's not a thing that's done. It's like, for me, it's a daily practice. I feel like the rest of my life, I'm going to have to intentionally not go back to the default thinking or the default patterns of stuff. And so, yeah, I'm obsessed with building self worth, and so through the book Worthy and also through my podcast, the Jamie Kerly Micheau, which I'm so excited to invite you on too. I just it's it's my greatest passion. And there's this quote by a friend of mine, Rory Vaden. He says, in life, we're best positioned to serve the person we once were. And I find that interesting, almost like an interesting key to discovering our purpose Because a lot of people think their job might be their purpose or there, but often it's like, what is that thing that we struggled through or that thing we went through we would never wish upon anybody, but we made it through, and it's like, oh, how can we actually help someone else make it through that? And So for me, I don't a million percent believe I'm worthy all the time, but I know I'm worthy in my soul, and It's changed my life believing I'm worthy of good friends and I'm worthy of people who treat me well the way I treat them. I used to hang on to employees that you know, had really needed to be fired, like there was just it wasn't even up for him to be And I'm like, oh, I didn't want.
To abandon them and I didn't want to make them feel unworried.
I mean, you know, I used to not think I was worthy of even having higher standards. And I've come a long way. I've come a long way, and I'm okay not being a people pleaser all the time now. I used to have to be one all the time. I'm okay, not I'm okay if someone's disappointed. Now I used to not be able to handle that. You know, and I think that's self worth. Building self worth will change all aspects of your life because you know, we attract the level of love in our life that we love ourselves exactly, and so like that's the thing.
I think. It's so interesting how your book and a lot of books the messages are similar to my message, which is it comes down to choosing yourself, listening to your instinct, listening to yourself, and choosing to trust yourself and choosing to love yourself enough and then everything just falls into place. Yeah, magical ways. Yes, yes, it is beautiful. I think. Yeah, these the books I know, I grew up with. My mom has had tons of self help books. Oh wow, and I just grew up looking through them all the time reading them.
I loved it.
I don't even know why, because I didn't even I didn't know about my problems yet. Yeah, but it has come in uh full circle in my life. And so yeah, it's that moment, that moment you find your worthiness.
Yeah.
I love that you were exposed to those early on.
Yeah, I had no choice, you had no choice.
I was always I would see the Tony Robbins personal power tapes on the infoversial. I would see them on television and I loved it, Like I was so into it. I remember I was waitressing at Denny's actually, and I remember saving my tip money to go to one of his events. But I wasn't around anybody that thought like that. Wasn't into that at all, nobody at all.
Was I love that? Yeah, yeah, you were called.
Well, I just have one more question ask you before I let you go. Jamie current Lima, what was your last I choose me moment? Mmmm?
Last I choose me moment was pushing. It was delaying a trip by a day so I could take my daughter to school on Thursday. Normally I would never do that. I would, you know, I would put my to do list or my scheduled things over everything. And I was like, I can sense that she really needs me, and I actually, for me, I need that I want.
To just take her to school.
And it sounds like a small thing, but for anyone has ever been addicted to busyness or to human doing this, or who would rather work over do anything else, or for me, yes, it's kind of it's a it's a big moment where it's not only I'm choosing me, I'm choosing the me I want to be choosing the me I want to be over sort of the default pattern of oh yeah, I already have this scheduled. I've got to do that, you know, kind of a thing. I'm like, oh no, I think my soul right now needs to take her to school, and then I do that thing. So I pushed it out by a day. So, yeah, that's what just happened. It was a decision actually I made driving to your house today, to your studio today. Oh yeah, yeah, you got clarity, got clarity, and I feel good about it.
You should feel good about it.
Yeah, lifelong, we're all works in progress, right, yeah, forever.
Even seemingly little things like that. It's hard to make choices for yourself. Yeah yeah, and subsequently for your daughter.
Yeah, I love that.
Thank you so much for coming you to my studio and just chatting with me and being so open and I know what your journey has been will absolutely inspire other people who are just starting out, because it's all the no's that you took and turned into maybees never let those nose stop you. And I think that's such a beautiful message.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for inviting me in for hanging out barefoot with your sweet dog, who, thank goodness, survived. You say, get a coyote, right, Yeah, yeah, it's okay, Yeah great. Thank you, Thank you for having me.
You're welcome.
Thank you,
