I am all in. I am all in with Scott Patterson and I heart radio podcast. Okay, everybody here we are, and we have a very special guest coming up, Kim Kirk. She's a psychologist, therapist, and she was on her prior episode and you know, I said to Amy, I said, we've got to get Kim back on to talk about this Paris thing, because, uh, you know, I was having some issues with Paris and I've worked them out now. Um, but Kim's gonna come on. We're gonna have a talk. She's always fascinating, she's always uh really cuts right to the heart of what is going on and and she's going to do the same with Paris though, so so tune in and uh we'll be back with Kim work after these words. Yeah, Jim Kirk, Hi, how are you doing. Good to see you again. I'm so glad you could join us. Um, listen, we gotta get into this Paris storyline. It's a it's it's jangling my brain around a little bit. I you know, how would you describe Paris? First of all? Mm hmmm, Uh, Paris so polarizing and I know you have such adoration for her because I've been listening to the podcast. Paris reminds me of Um and I have I have affection for her, but I've watched the series several times, so I know the trajectory of her story. But it is it's I'm not surprised when you react to her that way because the signs that she's putting off it evoke those feelings. She's not a she doesn't put off as a safe person. And so I don't know if this is a good UM example because it's a dated movie. But one example that comes to mind is um Glen Garry Glenn Ross movie, that iconic scene with Alec Baldwin where always be closing is you know, it's very fowl. The language is not but but it's it's basically, um, if you if you get to this destination, you will get this and if you don't meet this destination, you will be annihilated. And you can imagine, you know, my, my Glen Garry. Like, I don't know how relatable that is to a lot of our if that's a good analogy or not with people, but but it's all another analogy I think of with Paris, and if she was like injected with some serum and she's got to get to this destination in this period of time or your whole family will die and you will die. It's that level of um laser focus and everything, everything in my path is either going to be a support or it's going to be against me. And you're either with me or you're against me. It's that absolute. So when and like you said, um, when we compare her to somebody like Rory, and they may be equals intellectually, Rory has especially with Loralae and then with the town, and then we've added in her grandparents. Um, she has people for her. We're cheering her along, we want this for her, we celebrate this with her. She knows she's smart. But there's also safety internally, and it's like Paris is. Safety is going to be, like you said, if I get to this destination, then I will live. What an what an important and insightful analysis, because if you don't have that safety, you can fail miserably. I mean you can still succeed, but at what price to others around you? But yeah, that's safety is so crucial. But that safety also allows you to make mistakes because I know if I make a mistake, which is which is critical. It's absolutely it's not just gonna happen. It's necessary to happen, because if I make a mistake and I get back up again, I know I don't get annihilated. I've got room to grow, I've got room to look around. And Paris is just so singlely focused. And I you made a good point as well. When I have no safety in here and I have no control, I am going to seek it out externally. And that's what she does. She seeks it out externally, which is you know, she's young, she's a teenager. They're disregulated. We're expecting her to be disregulated. But anytime I see anybody that's absolutely desperate to exert control externing, and I'm like, I know they feel powerless inside, absolutely powerless, right right, Wow, Landing, How was this landing for you? Because I know you've had some some understandably um I don't want to say heart but very direct criticisms of her, and I think it's understandable. She doesn't put out the warm and fuzzies, so some of it is due to uh not, It's it's not against Liza Wheel personally. I think she's wonderful actress, wonderful, wonderful person. She did a great job. Absolutely, Um, It's just I was the thing I was reacting to was the character itself losing whatever um value it had to threaten and intimidate, uh rory because as a currency, that character had a lot of power and started out as saying this really drastic threat, and then it became a little bit cartoonish for me, and I was disappointed in that, you know, as the story progressed, and I so, I wonder why they did that. So so the criticism isn't it's it's not against Paris. I guess it's I don't know, maybe I thought I thought they just went a little overboard and made it made Paris so off the charts, ridiculous, wacko, off the wall without allowing us to have I mean, if I think it would have been more powerful storytelling if we had a little bit of compassion for if we knew a little bit more about or give us a little background and not just one shot of her mother at a locker who's detached and kind of piss because she has to be there or whatever, but you know, give us something that we can hang our hat on, so we can so we can just see another dimension of Paris. That's all. That's all I was saying. You don't need a lot, you know, just just give me something. Extead of this carton. Now she's getting just completely ridiculous and you kind of laugh at her instead of with her at times, and I didn't want to do that. Um yeah, and I see, you know, and what to me, you know what you're talking about on on some of the other characters on the show that the supporting stuff, like a Taylor and a and a Kirk, you know, or they just kind of come in. They're exaggerated. I know, people will say they recognize those kind of people from the town. They're usually exaggerated, but they are kind of cartoonish and they kind of come in and zip in and zip out. And her, she's going to be a much more sensitive character on this show side. But I think I think all of the characters are. I think I think all of the characters elevated and not necessarily cartoonish, but they do come and they do sort of exist in this sort of unreality. I mean, have you have you ever known I mean, can you even imagine in real life Rory and a Laurelai with all the answer going back and forth walking to a diner, I mean, or the conversations they have crossing, crossing in front the go to the diner a version of that, okay, right right? Not not so well choreographed, of course, this this and this banter that there's no us and trail off distraction. It's just so perfect and well written, right, it's just so neat. Um so yeah, I mean I think we're they're training the audience to expect heightened reality. Yeah, it's called fiction. Um so yeah, dummy, it's called fiction. Uh So this begs another conversation about winning? Is it healthy? What is it? What's the famous all things in moderation? Right, right, all things? Well, because you know, like your point is getting into Harvard, it's an amazing goal. But then you know, we've on people that have worked really really hard to achieve something so specific and then they get there and then what, yeah, is is the if if her goal is I'm going to get to this destination and I will finally be loved and it's not met, then what happens? Yeah? Yeah, then then what happens that single focus? And when you were talking about like is winning everything it is to her right now? What is what is that? But she's sixteen too, which which then we bring in. Wouldn't it be nice for someone who's not sixteen too much older than sixteen could give her some perspective that she can't see right now, You're gonna burn yourself out. You're going, yeah, she's you know, I look at Paris and she's like simultaneously attacking and defending at the same time. So you may go, you know, I want to help her, and then you go over there and you get the part of her that's really suspicious of what do you want, and you might go, all right, I'm I'm out. I don't know. So it's kind of that self perpetuating problem of I want this, but I'm so protected of myself that I'm actually pushing it away and she can't see that either. Um. You know, we see Paris often giving Rory the secrets to her success? Why is she doing that? If she's a rival? That's always yeah, I heard you post that before. It's interesting because I wonder that too, Like is she I think I always wondered too, Like before Rory got there, how many other rivals have she? Just you know knocked aside, Um, Madeleine and Louise to me are more support staff ladies in waiting versus friends. They're not really friends. So so I always wonder with Rory, maybe there's a level of and you were an athlete and you know, like very driven. Is there a level of does it take you to a higher level when you've got a good competitor? Is that one aspect of it? And is there another aspect that part of her like Rory, part of her wouldn't mind if Rory, like there can only be one, but maybe it would be nice if you kind of hung around with me on this race. Inevitably I'm gonna win, but maybe it's kind of nice to have your rounds. I don't know. I don't know. It's an interesting question. So, um, that's that's kind of how I view it. Like there's a lot of mixed feelings about it, and I think she kind of likes her. I think it's the first time she's felt threatened that somebody could overtake her. Ryan back down. Yet Rory is so emotionally mature because she's pretty much had to raise her mother at times. I mean, who's who's the parent and who's the child in that relationship. I think it switches back and forth. Right, So, Rory has a tremendous amount of experience dealing with uh overwrought emotions coming from a caregiver, you know, her mother. So here she's dealing with a sixteen year old when she's been dealing with you know, her mother her whole life, because you know, you can only imagine the outbursts and the and the insecurities and the conversations that don't get written about or or appear on on the series if you're taking this that seriously. But with in Paris's case, I think, you know, I think Rory sees her as somebody at this point who she has dismissed on a certain level, as this girl really isn't arrival. This girl is not my enemy. This girl is going to provide me a chance to show the same level of compassion uh and emotional maturity that I've had too shown to get through certain periods of my life with my mother, my own mother. So I have experience ants in this field, um uh. And and now she's to the point where, like this in Paris is so toxic that I do need to create distance. I can't. She realizes she can't be friends with her, and and Paris is on a complete different track, like still trying to ingratiate herself, still trying to have her friend, because if she's rejected by Rory, I mean, that's that's like being rejected by her mother or her father. You know, It's it's the same level of of rejection and disappointment and self loathing. And she doesn't want to experience that. So she maybe she's just fighting so hard to keep Rory in the fold, and she's doing it in her in inevitable style, showing up at the door. Yeah, that's it's a it's it's a yeah, really interesting in perspective of that. I wonder too, Rory um, Rory, is that really scared of her? Like she you know, she was taken aback by her initially, and she stood up to a couple of times, and you know, just like anybody else that you're around, there's there, there's I don't want to say there's no, there's all bark and no bite. She bites a little bit, but she hasn't been hard enough yet that Roy has been injured by that, and she's every time she's stood up for herself. It seems to have worked um with Paris to a degree. Um, I I can't completely let go that they kind of like each other on some level, some level they get each other. I think she you know, initially, no, I don't think they like each other. Wasn't much there. But there's some connection there that they're having. That's that's unspoken and maybe neither one of them are that aware of it yet. The competition part is is interesting for them. They kind of I would imagine they kind of keep each other in check. Um, And I think you're right too about Paris doesn't think Roy's gonna win, But as this season is showing, you're seeing her getting a little bit more uncertain about You're saying that, But what was your question? Uh? Maybe maybe, um, maybe Rory sees a little bit of her mom in Paris. Interesting. I I brought this up last time I talked to you guys, and I don't I don't know how this lands with y'all. Paris reminds me a lot of Emily. She reminds me a lot of Emily. What about like on the the Bracebridge dinner, Remember when Laurela was making the rounds and she goes by, and her dad's you know, being unusually gracious and appreciative of this dinner, and Emily goes, you need to press your dress, and then go around checks on Paris, and then Paris points out everything that's inaccurate about the period. I was almost like, and Laurel, I just okay. So so I wonder too if Emily is not competing with Rory. So it's a different relationship. But like what your your point is not just mom, but grandma. These may not be scary people to her. Yeah, she may be like been there, done that, yeaher versions than you. Yeah, And she's able to communicate with if you notice, she's kind of able to hone in some places with Paris where she calms all of herself down and they can have like a real quick human to human contact, and then Paris gotta resumed wherever she's at. Um. Yeah, so I I there's there's something there. There's I think there's a lot there. Maybe maybe we're maybe we're both right. What um in your experience when you have had patients that are like Paris, what ultimately ends up happening to them as they get older? Well, I haven't worked with anyone quite like her. But I've worked with with driven people and if you know, and you know in my world, what what do you want to work on is what they're coming in for. So I'm not gonna, you know, tell people where they need to be, where they need to go. Um. But when I see somebody like her and we're able to really look inward and see what's going on and see what's important about this behavior? Would it be would it be nice if we could turn this down and turn this up? Um? They're incredibly powerful people, incredibly powerful people. If they don't do anything different than I would see the trajectory of just complete total burnout and disappointment and trying to find something else to chase. And I mean your body when you're sixteen, We'll give you energy to do this, but it'll it'll stop after a while. It's kind of like your your your body gets kind of smart about now we did that before and I got nothing for that. I'm not doing that anymore. So. UM, it's almost like an addiction, like addictive behavior. We always see the person with the addiction. We get up all hours in the morning and walk from wherever to wherever to to seek something um and we're like, where did that energy come from? But at some point it's not sustainable. I would love to have that level of confidence that she has. Well, that just comes from hard work, That comes from just cheer, grit and studying and reading and reading over and over and over. I mean, she just nails everything. But she's not afraid. And maybe this is something you can identify with two maybe on the the both athlete and the actor parts of you. She's not afraid of you to own or no, she didn't do it anyway. I mean, that's that's an admirable thing, especially for a lot of females though were not. I mean I can't speak for a lot of people. I can speak for myself. Not as comfortable with that, soho, that's pretty admirable though to to you know, she's gonna do it anyway. Now she can encroach upon your boundaries and basically bust down the door, and that's gonna get her in trouble and it's not going to make her a very likable person to you. But if you could turn some of that down and turn and turn up maybe some of her sense of whose space am I in? There's other people calling in my voice. But but if we could calibrate some of these, she's an incredibly she's an incredibly powerful person that would be unstoppable with anything, right, I mean that's my opinion. What do you think? No, no question, But she has displayed a very vulnerable side, a very needy side, um as well. So it's one of the you get one of the other and you rarely get the vulnerable side, but it's there in absolute. Yeah, that's not safe though, And who where do we normally see the vulnerable side with her? When do you see it? When have you seen that? When she's out of her element, when she's surrounded by Rory's people that you know, the Bracebridge Genner is a perfect example. Um. Again, family encroaches in this episode where no, I can't celebrate with you afterwards and do what you want to do that nutty stuff go over everything after reminant family and we were going to go back. Yeah, it was like, this is absurd, right, she's not considering anybody else and like we have we have these facts. She doesn't have family obligations, she's not busy with family doesn't exist for her. Yeah, and not Yeah, that's not safe for her. Interesting, just fascinating, fascinating. And then and it's interesting where you know she I mean, it's the show We're set and stars hollow, so it's kind of obvious, but but it's interesting where she feels safe for the same places that Laura life feels safe in the same places that Rory was brought up and has this inherent sense of safety right in this in this quirky little town with these people that just like you, just like you for you, celebrate with you. Yeah, but in Terris is um in in her just being. It's funny because she, you know, like Rory may ask her a question, it's just a question, why do you want to know that? Yeah, It's like before I answer, wait a minute, what is this for? So she you know she, I think Paris can't perceive that you don't have an agenda. I have an agenda. Trust issues, but I have an agenda. You all have an agenda. Which is a very young way of thinking too, kind of how kids think, not just not I don't know I'm talking about teenagers, but it's it's a very very young way. I think this way. I like chocolate ice cream. Why don't you like chocolate ice doesn't make any sense to me. And so Paris, you'll see that that almost that little girl park come out to lots of ages. But yeah, yeah, that's a that's a case of a rested emotional development. For sure, her brain is developing, but her her emotional like you, is very low. It's very very very young, and it doesn't have and and again it's hard to grow. And I think we talked about this before when we were talking about Lorala. It's hard to grow when there's not safety. You know, I don't in Paris, doesn't play. You don't play when there's not safety. You don't really get curious. You know. We'd say she's brilliant and she studies, but that's not really curiosity. That's that's learned this No, this recite this that that's not curious learning learning for the wrong reasons. It's it's important, but it's not. It's not all there is though, But it's not safe for her. Again, it's not safe for her um to do this. And it's not even on the radar. She is like this, this laser pointed armored car, very sensitized alarm system with every type of defense on it, that just plows through on a fast track, the fastest track possible to Harvard. Right, whatever Harvard says, I'm going to do and I'm going to be a manufactured person. Yes, and then and then we like we like you were asking, you know what, what what's inside of her head? I don't know if she's ever thought about what happens the day after, what happens to the next day, right, right, doesn't think about the consequences, doesn't think long term. There's no long term thinking. Interesting, Kim, we have to break it off. The session. Um fascinating. It's always fascinating to talk to you. I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours, my god. Um, any we thank you for coming on. Thank you. It's always it's always the most interesting part of this. And uh, I'd love to have you back again. And all the best to you. We'll see you next time. Okay, thank you so much. Right, a lot of fun. Thank you so much. Hey, everybody, and don't forget follow us on Instagram at I Am all In podcast and email us at Gilmore at I heart radio dot com. Oh you, gil More fans. If you're looking for the best cup of coffee in the world, go to my website for my company, scott ep dot com, s c O. T. T. Y P dot com, scott ep dot com Grade one Specialty Coffee FOW

I am all in. I am all in with Scott Patterson and I heart radio podcast. Okay, everybody here we are, and we have a very special guest coming up, Kim Kirk. She's a psychologist, therapist, and she was on her prior episode and you know, I said to Amy, I said, we've got to get Kim back on to talk about this Paris thing, because, uh, you know, I was having some issues with Paris and I've worked them out now. Um, but Kim's gonna come on. We're gonna have a talk. She's always fascinating, she's always uh really cuts right to the heart of what is going on and and she's going to do the same with Paris though, so so tune in and uh we'll be back with Kim work after these words. Yeah, Jim Kirk, Hi, how are you doing. Good to see you again. I'm so glad you could join us. Um, listen, we gotta get into this Paris storyline. It's a it's it's jangling my brain around a little bit. I you know, how would you describe Paris? First of all? Mm hmmm, Uh, Paris so polarizing and I know you have such adoration for her because I've been listening to the podcast. Paris reminds me of Um and I have I have affection for her, but I've watched the series several times, so I know the trajectory of her story. But it is it's I'm not surprised when you react to her that way because the signs that she's putting off it evoke those feelings. She's not a she doesn't put off as a safe person. And so I don't know if this is a good UM example because it's a dated movie. But one example that comes to mind is um Glen Garry Glenn Ross movie, that iconic scene with Alec Baldwin where always be closing is you know, it's very fowl. The language is not but but it's it's basically, um, if you if you get to this destination, you will get this and if you don't meet this destination, you will be annihilated. And you can imagine, you know, my, my Glen Garry. Like, I don't know how relatable that is to a lot of our if that's a good analogy or not with people, but but it's all another analogy I think of with Paris, and if she was like injected with some serum and she's got to get to this destination in this period of time or your whole family will die and you will die. It's that level of um laser focus and everything, everything in my path is either going to be a support or it's going to be against me. And you're either with me or you're against me. It's that absolute. So when and like you said, um, when we compare her to somebody like Rory, and they may be equals intellectually, Rory has especially with Loralae and then with the town, and then we've added in her grandparents. Um, she has people for her. We're cheering her along, we want this for her, we celebrate this with her. She knows she's smart. But there's also safety internally, and it's like Paris is. Safety is going to be, like you said, if I get to this destination, then I will live. What an what an important and insightful analysis, because if you don't have that safety, you can fail miserably. I mean you can still succeed, but at what price to others around you? But yeah, that's safety is so crucial. But that safety also allows you to make mistakes because I know if I make a mistake, which is which is critical. It's absolutely it's not just gonna happen. It's necessary to happen, because if I make a mistake and I get back up again, I know I don't get annihilated. I've got room to grow, I've got room to look around. And Paris is just so singlely focused. And I you made a good point as well. When I have no safety in here and I have no control, I am going to seek it out externally. And that's what she does. She seeks it out externally, which is you know, she's young, she's a teenager. They're disregulated. We're expecting her to be disregulated. But anytime I see anybody that's absolutely desperate to exert control externing, and I'm like, I know they feel powerless inside, absolutely powerless, right right, Wow, Landing, How was this landing for you? Because I know you've had some some understandably um I don't want to say heart but very direct criticisms of her, and I think it's understandable. She doesn't put out the warm and fuzzies, so some of it is due to uh not, It's it's not against Liza Wheel personally. I think she's wonderful actress, wonderful, wonderful person. She did a great job. Absolutely, Um, It's just I was the thing I was reacting to was the character itself losing whatever um value it had to threaten and intimidate, uh rory because as a currency, that character had a lot of power and started out as saying this really drastic threat, and then it became a little bit cartoonish for me, and I was disappointed in that, you know, as the story progressed, and I so, I wonder why they did that. So so the criticism isn't it's it's not against Paris. I guess it's I don't know, maybe I thought I thought they just went a little overboard and made it made Paris so off the charts, ridiculous, wacko, off the wall without allowing us to have I mean, if I think it would have been more powerful storytelling if we had a little bit of compassion for if we knew a little bit more about or give us a little background and not just one shot of her mother at a locker who's detached and kind of piss because she has to be there or whatever, but you know, give us something that we can hang our hat on, so we can so we can just see another dimension of Paris. That's all. That's all I was saying. You don't need a lot, you know, just just give me something. Extead of this carton. Now she's getting just completely ridiculous and you kind of laugh at her instead of with her at times, and I didn't want to do that. Um yeah, and I see, you know, and what to me, you know what you're talking about on on some of the other characters on the show that the supporting stuff, like a Taylor and a and a Kirk, you know, or they just kind of come in. They're exaggerated. I know, people will say they recognize those kind of people from the town. They're usually exaggerated, but they are kind of cartoonish and they kind of come in and zip in and zip out. And her, she's going to be a much more sensitive character on this show side. But I think I think all of the characters are. I think I think all of the characters elevated and not necessarily cartoonish, but they do come and they do sort of exist in this sort of unreality. I mean, have you have you ever known I mean, can you even imagine in real life Rory and a Laurelai with all the answer going back and forth walking to a diner, I mean, or the conversations they have crossing, crossing in front the go to the diner a version of that, okay, right right? Not not so well choreographed, of course, this this and this banter that there's no us and trail off distraction. It's just so perfect and well written, right, it's just so neat. Um so yeah, I mean I think we're they're training the audience to expect heightened reality. Yeah, it's called fiction. Um so yeah, dummy, it's called fiction. Uh So this begs another conversation about winning? Is it healthy? What is it? What's the famous all things in moderation? Right, right, all things? Well, because you know, like your point is getting into Harvard, it's an amazing goal. But then you know, we've on people that have worked really really hard to achieve something so specific and then they get there and then what, yeah, is is the if if her goal is I'm going to get to this destination and I will finally be loved and it's not met, then what happens? Yeah? Yeah, then then what happens that single focus? And when you were talking about like is winning everything it is to her right now? What is what is that? But she's sixteen too, which which then we bring in. Wouldn't it be nice for someone who's not sixteen too much older than sixteen could give her some perspective that she can't see right now, You're gonna burn yourself out. You're going, yeah, she's you know, I look at Paris and she's like simultaneously attacking and defending at the same time. So you may go, you know, I want to help her, and then you go over there and you get the part of her that's really suspicious of what do you want, and you might go, all right, I'm I'm out. I don't know. So it's kind of that self perpetuating problem of I want this, but I'm so protected of myself that I'm actually pushing it away and she can't see that either. Um. You know, we see Paris often giving Rory the secrets to her success? Why is she doing that? If she's a rival? That's always yeah, I heard you post that before. It's interesting because I wonder that too, Like is she I think I always wondered too, Like before Rory got there, how many other rivals have she? Just you know knocked aside, Um, Madeleine and Louise to me are more support staff ladies in waiting versus friends. They're not really friends. So so I always wonder with Rory, maybe there's a level of and you were an athlete and you know, like very driven. Is there a level of does it take you to a higher level when you've got a good competitor? Is that one aspect of it? And is there another aspect that part of her like Rory, part of her wouldn't mind if Rory, like there can only be one, but maybe it would be nice if you kind of hung around with me on this race. Inevitably I'm gonna win, but maybe it's kind of nice to have your rounds. I don't know. I don't know. It's an interesting question. So, um, that's that's kind of how I view it. Like there's a lot of mixed feelings about it, and I think she kind of likes her. I think it's the first time she's felt threatened that somebody could overtake her. Ryan back down. Yet Rory is so emotionally mature because she's pretty much had to raise her mother at times. I mean, who's who's the parent and who's the child in that relationship. I think it switches back and forth. Right, So, Rory has a tremendous amount of experience dealing with uh overwrought emotions coming from a caregiver, you know, her mother. So here she's dealing with a sixteen year old when she's been dealing with you know, her mother her whole life, because you know, you can only imagine the outbursts and the and the insecurities and the conversations that don't get written about or or appear on on the series if you're taking this that seriously. But with in Paris's case, I think, you know, I think Rory sees her as somebody at this point who she has dismissed on a certain level, as this girl really isn't arrival. This girl is not my enemy. This girl is going to provide me a chance to show the same level of compassion uh and emotional maturity that I've had too shown to get through certain periods of my life with my mother, my own mother. So I have experience ants in this field, um uh. And and now she's to the point where, like this in Paris is so toxic that I do need to create distance. I can't. She realizes she can't be friends with her, and and Paris is on a complete different track, like still trying to ingratiate herself, still trying to have her friend, because if she's rejected by Rory, I mean, that's that's like being rejected by her mother or her father. You know, It's it's the same level of of rejection and disappointment and self loathing. And she doesn't want to experience that. So she maybe she's just fighting so hard to keep Rory in the fold, and she's doing it in her in inevitable style, showing up at the door. Yeah, that's it's a it's it's a yeah, really interesting in perspective of that. I wonder too, Rory um, Rory, is that really scared of her? Like she you know, she was taken aback by her initially, and she stood up to a couple of times, and you know, just like anybody else that you're around, there's there, there's I don't want to say there's no, there's all bark and no bite. She bites a little bit, but she hasn't been hard enough yet that Roy has been injured by that, and she's every time she's stood up for herself. It seems to have worked um with Paris to a degree. Um, I I can't completely let go that they kind of like each other on some level, some level they get each other. I think she you know, initially, no, I don't think they like each other. Wasn't much there. But there's some connection there that they're having. That's that's unspoken and maybe neither one of them are that aware of it yet. The competition part is is interesting for them. They kind of I would imagine they kind of keep each other in check. Um, And I think you're right too about Paris doesn't think Roy's gonna win, But as this season is showing, you're seeing her getting a little bit more uncertain about You're saying that, But what was your question? Uh? Maybe maybe, um, maybe Rory sees a little bit of her mom in Paris. Interesting. I I brought this up last time I talked to you guys, and I don't I don't know how this lands with y'all. Paris reminds me a lot of Emily. She reminds me a lot of Emily. What about like on the the Bracebridge dinner, Remember when Laurela was making the rounds and she goes by, and her dad's you know, being unusually gracious and appreciative of this dinner, and Emily goes, you need to press your dress, and then go around checks on Paris, and then Paris points out everything that's inaccurate about the period. I was almost like, and Laurel, I just okay. So so I wonder too if Emily is not competing with Rory. So it's a different relationship. But like what your your point is not just mom, but grandma. These may not be scary people to her. Yeah, she may be like been there, done that, yeaher versions than you. Yeah, And she's able to communicate with if you notice, she's kind of able to hone in some places with Paris where she calms all of herself down and they can have like a real quick human to human contact, and then Paris gotta resumed wherever she's at. Um. Yeah, so I I there's there's something there. There's I think there's a lot there. Maybe maybe we're maybe we're both right. What um in your experience when you have had patients that are like Paris, what ultimately ends up happening to them as they get older? Well, I haven't worked with anyone quite like her. But I've worked with with driven people and if you know, and you know in my world, what what do you want to work on is what they're coming in for. So I'm not gonna, you know, tell people where they need to be, where they need to go. Um. But when I see somebody like her and we're able to really look inward and see what's going on and see what's important about this behavior? Would it be would it be nice if we could turn this down and turn this up? Um? They're incredibly powerful people, incredibly powerful people. If they don't do anything different than I would see the trajectory of just complete total burnout and disappointment and trying to find something else to chase. And I mean your body when you're sixteen, We'll give you energy to do this, but it'll it'll stop after a while. It's kind of like your your your body gets kind of smart about now we did that before and I got nothing for that. I'm not doing that anymore. So. UM, it's almost like an addiction, like addictive behavior. We always see the person with the addiction. We get up all hours in the morning and walk from wherever to wherever to to seek something um and we're like, where did that energy come from? But at some point it's not sustainable. I would love to have that level of confidence that she has. Well, that just comes from hard work, That comes from just cheer, grit and studying and reading and reading over and over and over. I mean, she just nails everything. But she's not afraid. And maybe this is something you can identify with two maybe on the the both athlete and the actor parts of you. She's not afraid of you to own or no, she didn't do it anyway. I mean, that's that's an admirable thing, especially for a lot of females though were not. I mean I can't speak for a lot of people. I can speak for myself. Not as comfortable with that, soho, that's pretty admirable though to to you know, she's gonna do it anyway. Now she can encroach upon your boundaries and basically bust down the door, and that's gonna get her in trouble and it's not going to make her a very likable person to you. But if you could turn some of that down and turn and turn up maybe some of her sense of whose space am I in? There's other people calling in my voice. But but if we could calibrate some of these, she's an incredibly she's an incredibly powerful person that would be unstoppable with anything, right, I mean that's my opinion. What do you think? No, no question, But she has displayed a very vulnerable side, a very needy side, um as well. So it's one of the you get one of the other and you rarely get the vulnerable side, but it's there in absolute. Yeah, that's not safe though, And who where do we normally see the vulnerable side with her? When do you see it? When have you seen that? When she's out of her element, when she's surrounded by Rory's people that you know, the Bracebridge Genner is a perfect example. Um. Again, family encroaches in this episode where no, I can't celebrate with you afterwards and do what you want to do that nutty stuff go over everything after reminant family and we were going to go back. Yeah, it was like, this is absurd, right, she's not considering anybody else and like we have we have these facts. She doesn't have family obligations, she's not busy with family doesn't exist for her. Yeah, and not Yeah, that's not safe for her. Interesting, just fascinating, fascinating. And then and it's interesting where you know she I mean, it's the show We're set and stars hollow, so it's kind of obvious, but but it's interesting where she feels safe for the same places that Laura life feels safe in the same places that Rory was brought up and has this inherent sense of safety right in this in this quirky little town with these people that just like you, just like you for you, celebrate with you. Yeah, but in Terris is um in in her just being. It's funny because she, you know, like Rory may ask her a question, it's just a question, why do you want to know that? Yeah, It's like before I answer, wait a minute, what is this for? So she you know she, I think Paris can't perceive that you don't have an agenda. I have an agenda. Trust issues, but I have an agenda. You all have an agenda. Which is a very young way of thinking too, kind of how kids think, not just not I don't know I'm talking about teenagers, but it's it's a very very young way. I think this way. I like chocolate ice cream. Why don't you like chocolate ice doesn't make any sense to me. And so Paris, you'll see that that almost that little girl park come out to lots of ages. But yeah, yeah, that's a that's a case of a rested emotional development. For sure, her brain is developing, but her her emotional like you, is very low. It's very very very young, and it doesn't have and and again it's hard to grow. And I think we talked about this before when we were talking about Lorala. It's hard to grow when there's not safety. You know, I don't in Paris, doesn't play. You don't play when there's not safety. You don't really get curious. You know. We'd say she's brilliant and she studies, but that's not really curiosity. That's that's learned this No, this recite this that that's not curious learning learning for the wrong reasons. It's it's important, but it's not. It's not all there is though, But it's not safe for her. Again, it's not safe for her um to do this. And it's not even on the radar. She is like this, this laser pointed armored car, very sensitized alarm system with every type of defense on it, that just plows through on a fast track, the fastest track possible to Harvard. Right, whatever Harvard says, I'm going to do and I'm going to be a manufactured person. Yes, and then and then we like we like you were asking, you know what, what what's inside of her head? I don't know if she's ever thought about what happens the day after, what happens to the next day, right, right, doesn't think about the consequences, doesn't think long term. There's no long term thinking. Interesting, Kim, we have to break it off. The session. Um fascinating. It's always fascinating to talk to you. I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours, my god. Um, any we thank you for coming on. Thank you. It's always it's always the most interesting part of this. And uh, I'd love to have you back again. And all the best to you. We'll see you next time. Okay, thank you so much. Right, a lot of fun. Thank you so much. Hey, everybody, and don't forget follow us on Instagram at I Am all In podcast and email us at Gilmore at I heart radio dot com. Oh you, gil More fans. If you're looking for the best cup of coffee in the world, go to my website for my company, scott ep dot com, s c O. T. T. Y P dot com, scott ep dot com Grade one Specialty Coffee FOW