I am all in. I am all in with Scott Patterson and I Heart Radio podcast. Hey everybody, Scott Patterson, I am all in podcast. I'm joining with Tower sud Daniel Romo, Amy Sugarman. We are going to take a crack at the season finale, Season three, episode two. Those are strings, Pinocchio, Danielle take it away? Alrighty er date me three and everyone knows this episode one of the biggest episodes of Gilmore Girls. So I've been told, um it's Rory's graduation day. But before she gives her moving speech that makes everyone cry, she finds a solution in paying for Yale so that Lorelai can still buy the Dragonfly in with Suki. Luke is supposed to go on a trip with Nicole, but will one dream make him realize something he has never admitted to himself. Plus, Richard and Emily by Rory a car as a gift, So nice of them. And finally, Rory says her piece to Jess as he mysteriously calls right after her ceremony. Happy graduation. I'm gonna tell you this is this is the best episode that I have seen in this entire three seasons. This was unbelievable. Girls, What do you think for me? Um? This is actually my favorite episode of the whole series as a Gilmore Girls fan. This episode represents what the show is about. It's about Rory and Lorelai and their love for each other. And that's what that speech was about, right, So that's what That's why it's my favorite episode. And the part where she goes to um, Emily and Richard and she's like, here's the thing, this is my thing. I want to go to this school. I want you to kind of like get Lorala out of trouble in a sense. But Rory's doing it and she's now the adult. So this whole episode to me was it was full circle. But it was also the end of like chapter one Gilmore into chapter two. Okay, hands show hands. Who cried? Oh god obviously multiple times? Oh cried Danielle. Did you cry? No? No, no tears, no tears, not even a welling, welling. They didn't have to stream down your face, just and did you? I was yeah, I cried real tears, like we'll wipe the face at the end of the show. Shocking, shocking. Um. But but but it's like, but that speech, Rory's speech and when she thanked her grandparents and told her mother. I mean, yeah, I was. I wasn't like it wasn't like the water works, but it was. It was. It was very movie anyway, did did you? We'll get to that. We'll get to that because I want to think. I think it made me even cry more seeing Suki and Lauraa crying trying not to cry, and then Luke is crying, and then I'm crying. It's like a contagious yawn. So take us through it. Let's start from the beginning, because this was a very wait wait wait, very special episode, very very But before we get into it, I need to ask both you and Danielle, what do you think is is coming like? Because daniel has never seen it. Scott, do you remember anything? I remember a lot, but I don't know what you're referring to what's coming in season four? Correct? Alright, I don't know. I kind of ultimately no, well, I mean I remember that that that pivotal scene, and I think I know what you're referring to the numeroo smooth your rooney, right, don't But I'm no spoilers, No, we're not. I'm not saying for who so because it's fun for everybody because you are the virgin here God. Yes, which I still think that was a good time. So what do you think is going to happen? Let's let's say with with Luke. What do you let's talk about Luke. What do you predict? Okay, well, I predict that season four is going to be the Luke and Lorle show. But to get there, I think that Luke and Nicole are going on this vacation. They're packing up. He's meeting her at the dock. He's got his suitcases. She thinks she's in a Rainca cigarette. You all know what I mean. Okay, the boat pulls up, talking in there and Luca's like, I gotta do something before I get on the boat. I'll meet you on there. And then he's like running to the dog whatever the hell you call it. And then he goes, Nope, this isn't what I want, and he makes it. You turn. She's on the boat and he's like, I can't do it. She's on the boat, and then he goes to the goes to the house, knocks on the door and he's like, Lola, I want this, and then they have that numerous off at a sign shop and they make him a sign I love you, Laurela. I puts it on top of this car. I like that added detail. Since he's wearing a trench coat. Did he get his boom up? Definitely, something along those lines. That's why glad. I'm glad to know that's interest Lesa at the dock, leaves are hanging. I like drap at midnight and trench coats like I definitely think Nicole show goes on the cruise about him on the Romantic Cruise. The graphic comes up in black and white, you know, port of Hartford Midnight, and then we hear this whole absolutely where's Luke? Where is he? Why is it making me think? And I'm going to mess up the lyrics, but why is it making me think of that bon Jovi song? Johnny used to work on the docks. I don't even think it's Johnny. No, it is Johnny, I don't I don't know, but it sounded right. I'm glad we have that moment. Thank you so much. Living on a Mommy Tommy, Ny don't work on Johnny had a shot. He just didn't ask questions. You got eliminated. Yeah, Johnny wanted to be in a Springsteen song. He didn't want to be Tommy's ending up with Nicole. Okay, well, let's the record show. We will revisit this. Somebody saved this little thing that Danielle just said, so we can listen re listen to it. When we watched the season four first couple of oh yeah, yeah, this is coming back to haunt something. Tound Turner is back. The town Turner is back, right, so we're we all happy to see him for a moment, you know, and he gets smashed into by you know, get out of my way, peace, but out of the way, peace boy, and not a lovely graceful entrance by by Laurel I with her three pound backpack strapped. Very comical scene made me laugh out loud. I think he did have a funny line. It was the perfect Gilmore moment, wasn't it. And it starts out so beautiful and I did love when Luke says, don't take your shoes off right exactly exactly? All right? Are they just carrying around those backpacks for practice like that? So we're getting backpack shape European backpack shape? Right. Two important things in this scene, Scott that I really want to hear your thoughts. First. We have all so we learned that Scott, that we learned that Luke is going to close the diner, which had me sort of shook because it's like, whoa, that is big and that he's going on this cruise. So Laurela begins with all the love boat jokes, which epic and mentioning are you going to propose? Inappropriate? But that's Laura La, right, you mean she's well, well, of course that's what she does. That's who she is. That's her character. You know, she's a she's a female Don Rickles Henny Youngman type character. Right, So she's gonna ask those questions because nobody does that, and she's gonna do it, and that's why we love her, right, we expect the unexpected. So she she asked that question. She pops the question about it had even crossed his mind? I said, without answering the question, Don Rickles is actually a pretty funny comparison. Do you think that Luke had thought about proposing? Has that even crossed his mind? I? H I I don't think so, I agree with you, Yeah, I don't. I don't know. He's I mean, how long has he's been dating her now, I mean only like six months, six months, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, but he's he's cool whether it's like going well, but I think he's inbiden his time, right, and he has the parents he's giving he's giving it a chance. But it's like, you know, maybe it's maybe it's fun and relaxed and it's good for him, and he knows it's good for his life, and she's having a good time and all that, but maybe he doesn't feel it's the end all be all right. But again, how would he know. It's definitely not the same feeling he has for laurel Ize, So I think that's why. But I think he probably feels he's never gonna get laurel I, and he's got to grow up and try something else and maybe carve out a life for himself. And I just think he's being trying to be you know, emotionally mature about it. Right. I literally think your analysis is exactly right. Like he knows I should keep dating her because I deserve to be happy, and this is what adults do. He's a good, good person. Yeah, that's a great cat. She's a lawyer, she's smart. We have they have a there's nothing bad. There's nothing bad, but I do think there might be some Subliminally he's convincing himself like this is what I should do. I think he was he was troubled by meeting the parents and that he so didn't fit in, and he felt like, I mean, that's an academic family, right, He's not going to fit in. You know. Christmas is going to be strained, and Thanksgivings are gonna be strained. They're always going to be talking down, not not down to Luke, but a lot of things are going to go over his head. And I don't think he likes being in that position. And um, he's just not a very sociable or social guy. Yeah, you know what, So that part is true. But he is very smart, that's right, right, he really he might not even like be so aware of how smart he is, do you know what I mean? Like, I never think of Luke as not being completely up to the standards of the lawyer or whoever. He knows business, he knows life, he knows the school a hard knocks like he does at all. You know, I think I think he knows what works for him, right, He he knows himself, so you know there you go. Um, so you know there's there's there's a certain kind of wisdom that comes out of him from time to time or maybe more often than that. But I don't know. I think I think he likes being with her. I don't know that it's it's long term, and I think he still probably has a glimmer of hope for Laureline coming around somehow because that feeling. I think that feeling that tension is always there. Ye, it's always there. That doesn't go away with somebody when you feel it to that degree for somebody, I totally agree. Do you guys feel the same? Danielle and tar Like, Uh, how do I say this? Luke and Nicole are perfectly pleasant? Yeah, but are you? I'm not feeling the No. It just seems like someone there. It's just like they're dating each other just a phase. They're hanging out past time, but they're not each other's soulmates. But they get along and they like to flirt and they like to you know, hang out whatever, but not a soul mate like they're destined to be together. Vibe chemistry is not the same. And I think if Luke found somebody that he felt the same way about other than laurel La. That would happen very quickly. He would marry that girl very quickly. They would have children very you know, as soon as they could, because that's really what he feels for Laurela, right. And I do think Luke wants that. I do think he wants a partner. I do think he wants a family, like he wants all those things like it. I I see that. So when Laura La asked, as he going to propose, and he kind of was like, oh, I didn't even think about it. Yeah, because it's the wrong girl, it's not the right I also think let's take one brief moment to compare. We're jumping to the end, but we're going to compare this moment with the dream at the end when Luke has that dream of Lorelize saying don't propose. I think she put that subconsciously into his head because it was her fear almost like she's saying, oh, you're gonna propose to almost like calm her own anxiety, like hoping you said no, And then that puts that into your head and you realize at the end you don't want to propose. Because you want her. I find a very imp like important parallel between those two scenes. Look, Manny's streaming about her right right. How many have you ever had some guy come up to you and say, you know, I had a dream about you last night based on the fact that I've never met you. Do Wait, Scott, you are nailing it though, It's it's so on the nose like it was. His dream is for her to say, don't hm, wow, yeah what he wants to hear? Yeah? That was that? Just that was deep. Guys, only only one of one Laurel line. There's only one of those, and there's only one Luke, give yourself some cread no, But I mean, I'm from from Luke's point of view that there's one of her. You know, they didn't make another one of her. She's she's one and a billion, and he knows it. And however quirky or inappropriate she is, she's very special, and she's very funny and warm and loving and and what a fun life. And I think, you know, he brings out a sign in him that he buries, so I think I think he sees himself, he projects himself into a future with her where he feels like he could open up a little bit and start loosening up and and having some fun and having some laughs and and you said, I love that. You said, what a fun light. It would be more fun his his life. His life is tremendously fun. He's a you know, he's a guy that gets up and works and he works all day and he works. That's that's what the fines that keeps him saying. And why do people do that? You know, why are people like that? Because you know they haven't found the one. They found them, they find the one. He's not working so much and she's like the bright light of all of stars hollow to be honest, like just keeps everyone going, Yeah, what about if that dream was actually okay? I had that moment to where I'm like wait, and he makes like was that real? What if Laura Lee had done that? And what if she had gone I didn't find it inappropriate? Like what if she had gone into the diner in reality and said like, hey, don't propose, what would you wait? You wouldn't have found that inappropriate? No I did. Yeah, I think it would have been too soon, because that's a moment that that you then you have to kiss I thought that you're right, right needed to happen in the dream, It could not happen in real life and needed to be the dream. Otherwise I don't think it would have spoken to Luke. Well maybe it would have, but like the only way for it to be somewhat appropriate is for Luke to dream that. But also it's not like like when when it happened. I was like lor Lte would say something like this up, you know, totally right, And I do think I want to go back to what Scott said is that it is Luke's dream. It is Luke's dream, not like she's in it and Luke is dreaming of her, stopping him from being with someone else essentially. So one other important, very important thing in this scene is that we learn that Luke will be at the graduation Wednesday at four, and I thought was important. That's his family, you know, their their family. They Gilmercy Luke as part of their pivotal clothes for group of people, because it's Suki, it's Jackson, it's Luke and the girls, and obviously Richard and Emily. But that's a very tight knit family. Yeah, yeah, I mean it made perfect sense to me and we'll talk about it when we get to the graduation scene that he was there. I know everybody has thoughts because I've I've already seen some of them in the group text. So we'll talk about the end. Okay. So we're at the Dragonfly and there is Luke checking it out. Bots they're just setting us up. That scene, was just setting us up for heartbreak, right, just setting us up for heartbreak, like you mean, like it's a money pit or was going to go wrong that it's that it's not a money pit, and that you're you're gonna be up and running four or five months, so don't worry about it, right, It's just laying the groundwork for for the bad news it's coming for the Independence In it's closing up and the you know and all that. So yeah, let's talk about that. Now. What did you all think when you realize like the independence In is no more man? Well, I think we kind of like saw it coming low, but I did find it really interesting. Okay, Can I just like, since I don't know what happens next, can I just throw something out there? Of course? Okay, So when Laura Lai was talking to the owners, I'm assuming Son like because she was like, oh you know, yeah, yeah. Um. She was saying, She's like, but Rory grows up, grew up here, like, but this is my job, you know, Like she was there. It's very The Independence in is very sentimental to Laura lia Um. And then he was like, well, you know, she's probably just gonna put up for say so, I think she does a bait and switch and buys the Independence in. Oh you think that's what's going to happen. It doesn't, Okay, the clearly it's not what happened. Actually, Like off of that, there was a fan who says told us on Instagram that there was a deleted scene from this episode and I found it on YouTube and it's basically a flashback of Laurel and Rory now and like when Rory was a kid in the Independence in which I'm like, man, that should have been in the episode. I like, I like that scene too, Yeah, I really was. It wasn't in the episode. Yeah. I thought it was a great scene. I I really liked how they do it and you gotta I mean, it looked like Laurel I was probably what in her early twenties in that scene her. Yeah, it was like ten, do you think? Okay, so Laurel I was six. Yeah, that makes me think of something. Are there a lot of scenes you shet that do not make it even on this show because this show seems so tight and scripted. It was that rare. I think that was rare. Yeah, yeah that I I don't remember shooting a scene that didn't make it onto real final cut. Yeah, And I could be wrong, And I'm sure there's some fans out there that know this and that they'll they'll school us. But I don't recall one scene being shown. It's not like every episode there's multiple scenes you shoot that never got in because it's like, you know, these are very tight schedules and they're all timed out, you know, and they have to be in. There's also so many callbacks. I can't script. E would have a real mess on script, Like there's so many callbacks. Imagine if they're doing a scene like the reason that one worked is it was a very sort of um isolated scene because of the flashback situation that you're like, okay, maybe they just had to dump it and it was just like a minute, like it wasn't even like long, so right, right, I really I really enjoyed that, so I was surprised they left it out. They had their reasons, you know, obviously, but I enjoyed that scene. And Kirk has another job. We're going back, so many jobs. Yeah, So it is interesting that they're it's going to take five months or so, and then they have no jobs, like all of a sudden. That is sort of I guess we'll jump to that that all of a sudden, these guys are out of work and there I don't get the idea they any of them have a ton of dough in the bank like Luke does, for example, to last them six months no work. That one she has to pay for Yale, Yeah exactly, I mean, I guess. Okay, let's talk about that. That's such an important part of this episode. What do you think about the fact one is that she was going to sacrifice the inn for Rory to Rory finds out because Suki sort of lets the cat out of the and then that Rory goes to the grandparents. Just let's talk about it. We know that these situations come about in the and the watching of the episode, because all roads lead back to the Gilmore's, I mean, Richard and Emily, all roads are going to end up back there because they have they hold the purse strings. So, uh, no surprise. I did like how Rory went back herself independently and laid out and made it, made that deal with Richard. I really enjoyed that scene. And you know, she got what she wanted, everybody got what they wanted. She had to explain to her mother later on, it's a win win win, everybody wins, you know what I mean. And Loaura hanging on to that sort of you know, that her her childhood trauma as she's wont to do, but it provides for necessary conflict to keep the story moving forward. Yeah, I get torn between that scene and this is kind of jumping ahead, but that scene between Rory and Loura La where Rory tells her what happens, and you know, Laura La, Rory is saying it's a win win for everyone. You know, like, this is good, this is great, and Lorala still tries to make it a little negative and it kind of bothered me a little bit. I get why she's doing that because she wants to give Rory low expectations, but at the same time, I'm like, it's already done. Like, why do you have to say they're manipulating her. She's the one that went to went to them, and you know, like that kind of bothered me a little bit. And plus it's a celebration episode. Yeah, let's all. Can we just lay down our swords for you know, one afternoon here and not or a couple of days and not squabble. Yeah, because it's it's about coming together for Rory, celebrating Rory, and then you know, thereby we're celebrating ourselves and everybody's celebrating each other for their contributions. I mean, you know, if there was ever a moment to be family friendly, yeah, this was probably it. And yeah, I agree, she's still kind of chipping away. And at this point, Rory knows you, she knows who what her grandparents have done to her mom and vice versa, and she knows that strange relationship, but it's not her relationship with them. So it bothers me that Lorela tries to impose that on her. I'm just like, it's okay, let her figure it out herself. She knows what you went through. You don't have to keep going at it. You know what I thought, I had on the second go around watching this is do you guys think, and I I almost hate to pose this, do you think that Rory? I think Laura Lie was a great mother, but do you think she was too close to her own daughter and sort of you know, the seeds of failure were sown in that closeness where Lauraa Rory goes off and can't possibly succeed without her mommy. I mean, what do you think of that? I mean, I don't want to sound too cynical, but no, no, no, I think there are definite complications in their relationship because of how close they are, and that it does sometimes veer to that best friend thing and you can lose the mother daughter. I think I like it, but it does make it complicated because I see I see Roy trying to break out of that when she has to sort of mother her own mother and explain to her to win, win, win. That's not what a child does with their parents. The parent is supposed to know that, right, And I think that's why Danielle, you know, I had a little problem with that too. I thought she's she's just like, can't she just lay down her sword and celebrate this and didn't you think, I mean, for me, it was so heartwarming. I loved it. I loved this moment in the episode when you see how like happy isn't even the right word that Emily and Richard are, Yeah, they are even like Emily was just like, you know, it was like Santa had just come and it was Christmas morning and they were eight like their faces and so perfectly acted. Because god, that scene was so brilliant when they make that deal and they're doing the deal and Richard's doing his thing and Emily's doing her thing and they couldn't have been happier to give her the money. Oh my god. And Friday Night Dinners are reinstated, So I wish every loan was on the terms Richard's loan payback after five years zero. But it's also funny because I was like, you know, he's saying that, and then once five years comes, he's going to be like, you can do it in five more. Like he's not looking for in that. You know, Emily's like, this is an extra nine years of Friday Night dinners. So they would have given I'm certain of it. They would not have asked for Friday Night dinners. They wouldn't. They just would have been totally happy to pay. She offered it, and they were of course going to take it, but they it was not an obligation in the same way it was before, which I understand why they did before made it part of the deal. Well, they had no relationship before, so they're like, if we're gonna give you this money, we need to have a relationship, which I stand by. I think that they have a relationship with Rory. They know they have it, and they just wanted her to have the money. So I love that there's Friday night dinners back, but I don't think that Emily and Richard would have ever required them. I kind of agree with you on that, I do. I did have one question. I can't remember how far is Yale from the Gilmore's house, because how far is she driving for Friday night dinner new Haven to Hartford is I don't I don't think it's very look it up thirty minutes, I think she said, like minutes. Thirty minutes. Okay, yeah, it's not it's not that Hollow is further away from you. Yeah, yes, probably, I don't know an hour. I'm trying to find that our producer Jackie said, thirty seven minutes. Alright, not bad. I'm just wondering how long in Luke's truck and a half minutes This one was Luke's truck. There might be there's a hint of traffic right now in um and they have really big mosquitoes in Alaska. Let's get off on a tangent here. Okay, So so anyway, uh yeah, so and the car they threw in the car, Yeah, let's talk about the gift. They were so happy that they could give it to her, which I was really happy, Lord, I said, yes, I love when they ended graduation, they walk out of the parking lot and there's like I didn't know there was I didn't know there were prices in two thousand three, I remember that she had a prius. It was very Leo. It was it was very like right on point, go Richard, he knows what he's doing. Talk about before we get to the speech. Let's just talk briefly about Paris being so cool with Rory being the valedictorian that did not try to sabotage, but why she was thrilled. I did the research, you know, like people that are victor statistics aren't favorable for future for mortality. So good for you, Rory. She's such a peach that parents. And then I did think it was funny, even though not nice, when they kept calling that guy a v geek and then they're like, pan, my body nice and slow. So I thought that was sort of a moment of levity and just sort of funny and and real. Yeah, we didn't have enough Michelle h but we we got a good one, good scene. Could not see him as a dancer. Why why wasn't he at the graduation? A great question? Why the heck wasn't the whole town there? Well, that's what I was like, you can't like the tickets, And I remember my family had a field day on who can come and who can't, so I first hand, no, that not everyone's going to make it. We took other family tickets, like one of my friends. One of my friends was like, I got one extra ticket, like, and that's all ticket. So we had a party at our house after my high school graduation so everyone could come, all right, So that makes sense, And then we understand even more how important it was that Luke was picked, Jackson was picked, Suki was picked. Yeah, yeah, like it's not going to be Michelle over Luke or Miss Patty or bad beat. But they could throw them to throw her a party once she went and she got back right. Well, they were leaving the next morning for um really the very next morning. Wow, where they were out of They got out of town fast. Yeah. What do you think about the scene? And it actually, for me was quite heartbreaking when Lorelei comes over and like, let's get out the champagne with Suki and Jackson, and it's basically telling them like they're all out of a job, but she's trying to like glass half full. I watched it twice, and I think the first time I was like, why is she doing this? Is so mean? But the second time I was like, well, Suki is pregnant, so I don't I don't. I don't think she wants to stress her out. That's a good point, Yeah, good point. And I also think that she was probably so overwhelmed because that's where she raised, that's where they first went, that's where you know, that's I'll never forget. I'll never forget when when I when we decided to sell our home in Los Angeles, and you know how my wife reacted to that. And how we all reacted to it. Boy, this is the place where we had our son. Yeah, you know, and it's like that's a big deal. Yeah, that's such an important point because one is I'm thinking, oh my god, they have no jobs, money, money, money, But the emotional conrections, it's it's too much to to to feel, it's too much to acknowledge. So you want to go the other way with it and just hey, let's let's look at the bright side of this and let's stay positive. Yeah, it was. It was actually an act of real strength, you know, on Laurelized part to try to keep everybody pumped up about it. They do have something essentially to look forward to with the end at the time, you know, we did have that hiccup where suddenly they can't they're not going to have the end, but it's like they do have things positive to look forward to if they can just make it there. Let's talk about the town meeting, which I have a lot. Okay, so the town meeting was sort of obviously the impetus for Rory and Dean to have their moment, so we can talk about you know, if you guys have any thoughts about the town meeting, or we can just go to the conversation. I think go to the conversation. I felt that this was perfect. I loved it so much because it was a way for Rory to say, you know, I'm sorry for everything. This is what I got out of it. I'm sorry for what happened. Thank you for being the best to me and for standing up to me. But now I know that you're with Lindsay, please pick a gift I want and look at over look over this catalog. So two thousand three, look over this catalog, sticky tab. Yeah, and she goes with Lindsay and tell me what you guys want and that's my gift. And I thought that was so mature of her. I just I loved I loved that whole bit. And you know they say goodbye at the end, you know, goodbye, goodbye Rory, goodbye Dean, you know whatever however they said it. But I was just like, that really made me feel good after watching that. I agree, And this episode was I mean sorry, This scene was actually right before um the when when Rory goes to Emily and Richards and I think back to back, these two scenes just showed how mature she's she's spelling over the years, like she's being um you know, responsible for just everything that happened with Dean, and then she's also being responsible for her um yale money. So I think it just showed a lot of growth in this episode for her. Yeah, I agree, those two. Those two fit very well together, Dean and Rory. They're very It looks good, it feels good. They're comfortable with each other. I like them together, you know, or I like him as friends, you know, so they belong in each other's lives. Yeah. Yeah, I thought that was very lovely, just because it really really loved prior to this, Like the scene between Dean and Rory was basically Rory saying why why why are you getting married? Why? You know, like she was like all up in arms about it and now she's and then her boyfriend gets in like a full on altercation, knockdown brawl within the important reality. Yeah, if you really think about it, Dean gets fully dumped by this girl, fully like practically cheated on and done, not exactly cheated on, but like close like next hour making that with Jess yea then get then Jess is like so hateful towards this poor guy. Then they get like a brawl. It's just like a fact that Dean is still friends with Rory. Honestly, I love you, Dean. I love him. I love his character so much. I think he's just such a He's so fun to watch. I don't know, I just like every Dean scene. I'm I'm very team Dean. I am. I hate That's why he's a star. Yeah, yeah, he has that quit. He's got that magnetic quality where you can't take your eyes off. Ye just got this like how Like I used to think that jess In and Rory had chemistry when he first came on the scene, but now I'm like, whoa, there's just so much like but between what is your prediction as we're wrapping up season three for Dean and Rory or maybe Dean and Lindsay, just what do you think? Well, I do you know one spoiler about Dean, so I know that eventually comes back around. But I do think Dean gets married, um, and I do think comes back. This isn't This is definitely not the end of jess. He's coming back, and that's that's all I know in my head. Could you imagine if they left jess just then the ends and just lives in vena speech with that button up shirt, I know, leather jacket. Yeah, I know, we kind of touched on this, but Scott, do we all feel that Rory did the right thing by sort of making peace with Dean? And do we think she did the right thing by going to Emily and Richard for the money? Is Rory really kind of nailing this, like doing all the right things by everybody. She's tying up blues ends, Yeah, she's but and she's stepping up to get what she wants. And she's helping her mother out at the same time, who's stressed out financially. She's helping out her grandparents who want, you know, see her. You're right, So she right, you know, she is doing thing for them. You're right. And I think she was right to reconcile with Dean and get some closure there and and you know, potentially have a nice warm friendship going forward. Um. And I think she was right to let Jess go because what kind of you know, who calls and doesn't say anything and then just listens and then hangs up. I mean, please, I mean, this is this is an option for your future. Let's talk about that. Now we'll save the speech for the for the end. Let's talk about that. What did you all think about how that went down? What just like calling and not talking and it didn't track for me? Yea, yeah, that's very like first of all, who calls multiple times and just like it is breathing any other line like you. But he was he was a heavy coming but like in my head, but he okay, But thing is, let's let's let's just let's just rewind here a little bit. We we we have to realize how much pain Justice in and how confused he is and how his world is just blown apart. His dad doesn't want him, his mom doesn't want him, he's got Luke kicked him out. Nobody wants him, and he doesn't feel worthy. He does, but he wants he's hanging on. You know, that phone call scared me. Actually, this is what kind of phone call with somebody hangs up and it's like they make a decision. You know, it's like that kind of depression and loneliness. I mean, that guy needs somebody to reach out. He really needs help. You know. It really hurt me, It really really really hurt me, you know, so we can you know, listen. I I get this way too, and everybody does you get all judgey about things because it's just a TV show, But but look at the look at the character, look at what he's going through, and it's it's and that was a lifeline for him. That was a call that he didn't have to say it, but the call really meant saved me. Yeah. I just thought that he cared so much for Rory that he wouldn't mess graduation up. I thought he would have him calling the day before, day after whatever. I would like, Yes, I would have agreed with you, Scott, And I do get the point that you're saying, But I'm also like, the one day he should have left alone was her graduation day he left, so he needs to leave her alone too. In my brain, see, I thought that maybe that was his moment that he was trying to say I'm sorry, to make it up and bring around like everything and say I'm sorry on graduation day because he knows it's so important to her. But I see your point as well, like he should have thought it could be a little bit of a stretch, but I feel like he really gets her and they are very in tune that he is calling repeatedly and staying on the line for that moment where she's going to say what she needed to say. Interesting, that's a good point. So he's calling repeatedly and like she probably just keeps hanging up, do you know what I mean? That actually just very Yeah, it was a noble act to let her go, give her the he's giving her that moment giving because he can't do it. He can't, he can't break it. He knows he's not good for her, and he wants to give her that the best for her to like Jess always wanted the best, even though he may not show it at all times, Like he always thinks of her in a very positive way and and wants her to do well. And the reason I believe that also is because I believe Amy Sherman Palladino knew exactly what she was doing, and that we would have been left to wonder, was that Jess. We all know it's Jess, but they make it very clear. They shoot a scene with him to make it very clear that he is there on the pay phone. He's still in Venice. Obviously, we still have our you know, hopes and dreams of the spinoff, but that that is to me, that was I don't know that he was beings. I agree with Scott and that he's in a bad place and does need someone to reach out to him and love him. And maybe we're to assume that Jimmy comes back around, but that he's giving her that opportunity to say her piece so that she can go off for the summer feeling as best as she can and then really enjoy Yale. It's actually a very beautiful scene. Yeah, I love that Rory put it all out there, like everything she said, like when she goes, I think I may have loved you, you know, like even that, it just was Yeah, it was so. It was so Alexis Bladele is like ridiculously an amazing actress. She really is good. She's very natural and very fluid. So here comes another hot topic before we get to the speech. What do you all think the fact that Christopher is not there? It's like, Daniel, I cannot be more pissed about anything other than that, Like that that made that made me more mad than just calling to be Then they did. The writers did their job. Yeah, I was mad. I was just like you are her father, I don't care you if you have another baby somewhere else you show up if you have a relationship with your daughter and you are trying to do that, and not only that, but like you've been correcting all your wrongs with your new baby, like you still got time with Rory, like don't mess this up, and he's doing it again. I was just pissed. It was both. I was actually wondering why, and maybe it's a ticket thing. We never know, but it was both Christopher and Lane. Why weren't they both at the graduation? Because I thought, I know, there's there's three more, there's one more, there's three. Why wasn't Max Medina there? Right? I didn't think of that one? He's there? Is he still? Is he still there? I know he came back, but like he's from Stanford. Here's the thought, here's the thought. Should this Should this have been a separate episode? Just throwing it out there. You're saying, there's so much happening that you would have liked this to be like a two part I don't know if I'd have liked it, but I'm just you know, I'm just throwing it out there. What do you think could this episode just the graduation and all the interactions with all the Chiltern people and anybody directly involved with Chiltern. Uh could that have been a standalone episode? What I see where you're going with it, and that there's a lot happening. But I think that's very Gilmore, a lot of meat in the sandwich. I was sort of happy that they didn't make me linger more at graduation. They moved me through graduation shows that graduation is so long where you're like, let's just get like, we know you're graduating, let's get over with. But that speech was like exactly what we needed. It's like a bad TV wedding when it's just can we get through the wedding? I need to know what's going to happen. But that's that this is not your your average writing staff. You know, I didn't need more of Brad's speech, just plenty, Oh my god. But also I feel like in high school, like when you're graduating high school, like that scene where they were doing like the goodbye video and the conversation with parents, like that's kind of your last moment with your your peers in school. Anyway, like graduation day is really about you and your family. It's not really about about your point, you know, the teacher, like I don't even think I talked to a teacher like like graduation day, you know. So I think it was more about the family. I did think that it was perfect, and Scott, you'll be able to comment the physical comedy of Melissam over the people mind. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I suck. I suck. Also the architecture of Chilton. That was a good joke. Suki was like, you guys may think I'm like, but I was here before all of you guys, and she's just like fiddling through the chairs and just like she's so good. I love we talk about Luke Lukey, Um, look at Jackson with the insurance. Jackson was such a dad thing to do, Like, yeah, how much to ensure this? And Richard's ready to talk about probably approaching six figures and they're like, actually, before we talk about the valedictorian speech. I did take note. And I don't know if somebody had a real brain that Geller and Gilmore would be next to each other for to get their diplomas that one more moment. So sorry. I was like, somebody really knew what they were doing when they named it's so funny you say that because on another show that I'm watching, Um, they took roll call and someone with the last name l was listed off first, and it was like all out of order because it was the main characters, right, and so I was like, okay, like lor lyon and I'm sorry, Rory and Paris are back to back. This makes sense and we do get the Luke im your pen call back to Oh yeah, that was great. Also, the whole Emily and Richard seating saga was had me the space between laughing right between. So you always assume that I carry pens with me everywhere I go call back. So Scott, you first, what did you think about the speech? Was beautifully written, beautifully performed, very very moving. Um, you know, it got me. It really got me when you know, it was very satisfying that she honored Richard and Emily. Uh, and then she moved on to her mom and that was extra special. I mean, I I think you got to be battery powered if you didn't feel anything there, because it sure made me feel. Yeah. It was maybe the nicest moment on the show. Those those moments were so far in the first three seasons. Those were spectacular moments. You know, real fulfillment, you know, real full circle moments, you know everything. Richard and Emily wanted, Yeah that shout out and that landed right in their lap, and Rory just showed her respect and it was it was wonderful, Yeah, and so genuine. Yeah. I also liked Laura Lyons. He were like, don't cry, don't cry, like you know, because like we're are here on the couch bawling like about you guys. And I was like, I was probably crying and they're just trying so hard to keep us together. But it was such a Gilmore thing to do. It was that little back and forth banter during her speech was just so spot on. It's just obvious that like Rory is the reason that that family is together, I guess. Well. And then the sticking the tongues out when they're when's the very gilmourray. So I didn't mention this earlier when we talked briefly about Christopher. To me, yes, it's terrible that Christopher is not there and I don't even understand it. But Luke is the dad in a sense. He was like, ticket, yeah, yeah, I mean I guess dad, like not really, you know, I don't know. I don't think he you know, he didn't really have a close relationship with Rory, right, I mean he was dad at a distance. He was dad at a distance. That's fine. He was a protector at a distance. And you're not inviting the random dude from the or to your graduation. You're inviting the male figure in your life. I mean, he's been there since she was a baby. This she's she's been bringing her bringing a little baby Roy into the diner since she was born. Right, So Luke's been there, you know, playing with her and Couci Couci and the whole thing. And you know, it's been seventeen years. Speaking of missing parents, Paris's parents not being there. They love her, They literally love her. I was so happy for parents that she had people there, you know what I mean. I'm so happy for her. So then I guess let's talk about the back in Chilton. And maybe this is why they didn't include the in scene because they're almost sort of similar scenes in a sense. The deleted she did during the ceremony, she told her that she got in. Yeah she did, right, But maybe what I'm thinking is maybe the reason they dumped the deed deleted scene is because we sort of have a similar moment at Chilton when they go in to carve their name and they take that moment and it looks so big, but they say, this isn't scary anymore. Maybe they sort of felt that just played better. I don't know. It was just another moment for me that lor Lae is is growing up, you know, just like the Dean scene, the going to Richard and Emily is to you know, not being scared of Childen anymore. I was just like, oh, she is, she has grown up, she has a young she she she came out on top at Chilton and she had her choice of Harvard Princeton or Yale. What an accomplishment and in two years or you know what is she three years? Did she come in there as a sophomore? Yeah, that's right. So yeah, you can they even acknowledge it somewhere. I think Headmaster l Headmaster oh my God, even mentions it in his introduction terms. It's quite an accomplishment, I mean, really quite an accomplishment. And then I and I love the deleted scene because it's it talks about books, and it talks about how you more rooms to stack your books and yeah, yeah, it tells me what great mother she is, right, I wanted that. I really like that scene. I also thought in the introduction that Headmaster Charleston said when he said competitive when she needs to be, and I thought, oh, his intro for her, it was very cool and accurate, and I just you can tell that every word in this episode is important, every single detail is important. Well, you know, when you grow up that way, you know, just reading, reading, read reading. If you were a bookish person and you're intellectually curious from the time you're a small child, you're still going to be challenged at places like that, but you're gonna end up on top because your habits are so home, they're so refined. So she couldn't lose. You know, the seeds were planted a long, long time ago, so she couldn't. She wasn't going to you know, Paris was never going to defeat her. You know, it just wasn't going to happen. Mhm. So how many out of ten diplomas do you give this up? An? We've missed the scene? What do we miss we missed? When Luke tells lor Lie he's not going on the trip, he tells her, yeah. Yeah. At the graduation, he tells he tells her he's not going on the trip. Wait, and Loa lies like I didn't ruin it. I didn't ruin it, right, and look, no, no, no, But then he says he is going to go no, but then he goes, right, but I think it was no, you were just trying to get perfect. Came to it as I'm not going on the trip, and she was like, oh I did I did I ruin it? Oh my god, I say sorry, blah blah blah blah, and then he goes, well, I don't. I don't want to lead her on, Like do you think that's like after all that we've been you know, we've been through. That's like I took it as Luke and Laurela what they've been through and then and she was like no, of course not. And then he was like okay, well then yeah, okay. And but like he came to that conversation with I'm not going to then kind of being like, oh, maybe it's okay. I don't know. I think Lucas as confused as I am. I'm like, was he asking was she asking Laurelized permission to go on the cruise, who goes what is it? Was it a chuck right, because that's reality? That is a great, great way to ask. He like he dangled the carrot. He's like, I'm not going on the trip because he wanted Lorala to say thank God. He wanted his dreams to reality, and when it didn't, he said that I'm going on the trip. Yeah as well, Alaska has big mosquitoes. I think you both just nailed it, Scott and Danielle. And Scott you kind of alluded to this earlier. I think Luke doesn't doesn't really know what he wants because he doesn't want to just not have Nicole if there is no lore Lie for him. But it's so obvious to him that he's really just with Nicole waiting. I think this is aiding time. I think he wants to be with lore Lee, but he wants LORELEI to want him to, so he's like, I really like her, but it's what is it if she's not in on it too? He rather, but he'd rather Nicole than no one. He doesn't. He doesn't want to get his heart all smashed into bids. He makes his move and it ultimately doesn't work. Not even just his heart, but his entire community. Like there goes Rory, there goes you know, Suki and Jackson, because like all these people are tied to Lord Lie, so he can't screw it up, you know. Like that's how I see it. I think if it doesn't work out, everybody's going to be friends. I don't think he's gotta like out. You know, he's got to close up the shop and get the heck out of He doesn't want to ruin. He doesn't want to ruin the relationship he has with all those people. Now I know that, But I mean, look, at a certain point, he's got to put his big boy pants on and take a step up, you know. Because Uh, anyway, let's do favorite lines. Yeah, let me go first. Uh you know there was one other line I think, Well, I love the Luke line. Why you assume that I carry pens with me everywhere I go? Made me laugh out loud. There was another there was another line that, Uh it was Louise said it. What did Louise say, Oh, we're talking about a little quick line? It was what did she say? Um? Was it not the Uh? This is the best I'm going to look in all my life. No no, no, no, no no. They were sitting down, she was sitting next to Madeline. They said a line anyway, we'll come back to it, Amy, what was your favorite? Obviously I love don't get engaged. Even though it was in the dream, there was another line that I thought really was important. Basically, it's when lord Lyne Rory are talking I think in the hallway and she's saying, Yale is my thing. I needed financing and I got it, and lord Lee says something to the effect of I just want there to be a time when we're all getting exactly what we want, and Rory says, just softly, we'll see if we can arrange that sometimes. And I just thought that really is their relationship, of her being the voice of reason and the calm. So that really stood out to me. It wasn't a fun line, it was something that meant something to me. I'm gonna pull I'm going to pull a mine from the Rory and Jess combo or just Rory to the telephone combo. Um. She goes, okay, so goodbye. That sounds really layman stupid right now, but there it is. Goodbye. Mm hmm, yeah, all right, great, I'm gonna give this many diplomas. Uh gosh, I'm gonna give a ten out of ten. I really liked it. I thought it was a great episode, really great, really really great. What what about you? Tara? That's my favorite of the whole series. The Danielle nine point five out of ten, nine point five A nine. I mean, I loved it. Like, that's a lot of diplomas, but half a diploma for Danielle is Christopher. That was Yeah. I was pissed. Should we read some of the fan thoughts because we did say that we were going to do that just really quickly. Uh, Tara, you pick three, I'll pick three. Um uh, you want to go first or I can go first. So we asked them what We asked our fans what their thoughts were about this episode. Um so one of them said, each each season is stronger for the three seasons, and each characters has had at least one moment to shine. I agree, A lot of best best episodes ever, um, a lot of I cry every single time I watched this episode. UM, happy Friday Night Dinners were reinstated. UM, Rory speeches beyond emotional and I cry every time. Um, this episode always felt like a series finale, very little cliffhanger in a lot of emotion. I actually agree. I was like, I wonder if they Scott, I don't know, was this supposed to end after season three? Like or did you guys get picked up right away? Because it's a little question. Oh no, No, of course we were. Yeah, we were a ratings juggernaut at that point. Yeah, because especially if they weren't even discussing doing a spinaff were like, if you're watching it now, like you're like, oh, I guess it could have ended right there if it only was three seasons, you know, said up thirty seasons. Thirty seasons, yea, even after we died, they'd still be filming episodes, you know, their progeny or something. UM. A couple other fan thoughts. The phone call between jessin Rury felt things so unfinished for me, um, one of my favorite episodes. UM. And let's see why did Richard and Emily have disappointed reactions that buying a car for Rory was a win win for Laurelai. That's a good point. That's a great because they did all right. So I got a couple of things my crack team has unearthed some Yeah, here we go. All right, so we have a clown pillow sighting at eighteen I got eighteen thirty about thirty time marker. When the group first sits down at the graduation, Luke is sitting on the aisle, but at Richard and Emily joined them. Suddenly another couple of sitting in the aisle seats, presumably to set up the visual gag of Suki climbing over them multiple times. Yes, yes, all right, so I did. I did. The actress that played Paris as nanny also played a maid in season two Like Mother, Like Daughter the Fashion Show episode uh. And and I want to also make a note this is from Lauren's book The Blonde Girl. Uh. Sitting behind Paris and Rory at the graduation ceremony is Lauren's real life sister No yeah, yeah, yeah, half sister yeah or some sorry step sisters thanky um. When Rory is talking to Jess on the phone, she says, you ended up not taking me to my prom, but it was his prom they were played to attend. She should have said, you ended up not taking me to your prom? And he way, there you go anyway? The scene on that note, on that I was bummed that we never saw Dave, Regalski and Lane at the prom. We know it happened, and just got the box of pictures complete. That bum whole massive hole. I have not recovered from that, No, absolutely massive hole. The scene where Laurea la enters a diner and tells Luke not to get engaged. A surprising number of fans out there completely missed the fact that this is a dream sequence, right right, right right. Um. The two deleted scenes where Louise can't remember which of her father's ex wives mother is kind of hilarious and the creative, but a lot of people say lackluster scene with current day Laura, Lee and Rory intertwined with flashback Laurel and Rory. I act really really enjoyed that scene. Um. Anyway, there you go. That's season three wrap up, everybody, Thank you ladies. Next episode season four, episode one, the premiere is called Ballroom and Biscotty. I'm excited to see how things change. It's going to be you know, we'll take the summer off, not us. We're gonna be back at its European backpacking vacations for this gang. That's part of the budget. I think we're all going to meet in Vegas pretty soon. We'll be backpacking today. We have some exciting things coming, like some very special things. So the season four premiere is coming soon. But everyone, we've got some special things coming right before that. Okay, good enough anyway, gang, Thanks again, Tara su, Daniel Romo, and Miss Sugarman. That's going to wrap it up for this episode. Thank you for downloading. Everybody much love. Keep your comments coming. We really appreciate it. Stay safe everyone, ya Hey everybody, and don't forget follow us on Instagram at I Am All In Podcast and email us at Gilmore at I heart radio dot com. Oh you gil More fans. If you're looking for the best cup of coffee in the world, go to my website for my company scott ep dot com, s c O T t y P dot com, scotty p dot com Grade one Specialty Coffee