“How many kids do you have?”

It’s a question asked so casually, often as part of small talk. Yet, for those who dreamed of parenthood but find themselves childless, these four words can land with a heavy blow.

Today’s guest, Kelly Donougher, is a successful interior designer and founder of 13 Interiors, with design studios in Perth and Melbourne. But behind her professional success lies a deeply personal story. In her new book No Fence, No Limits, Kelly opens up about her and her husband’s decade-long journey with infertility—marked by rounds of medical interventions, the heartbreak of miscarriage, and the ongoing process of navigating grief.

In our conversation, Kelly shares the tension between meeting society’s expectations and honouring her own truths, how the medical system can make you feel like just another number, and what it means to carve out an identity beyond parenthood. She also reflects on how grief, while devastating, can spark transformation—and how creativity and career reinvention became lifelines of healing.

This is a conversation not just about infertility, but about the universal struggle with life’s “shoulds,” the boxes we’re told to tick, and the courage it takes to choose a different path. Kelly’s story is one of perseverance, hope, surrender, and ultimately, acceptance. Most of all, she reminds us that even when our sense of agency feels diminished, we still hold the power to choose.

To learn more about Kelly’s book, head to kellydonougher.com, and to explore her beautiful design work, visit 13interiors.com.


Host: Sabina Read
Producer: Audio Superstar Daryl Missen

*****
Human Cogs is available wherever you get your podcasts or via our website where you can also catch stacks of great conversations with previous guests :)

Got some thoughts on today's episode you'd like to share?

Get in touch via website or Instagram @human.cogs

We'd love you to share our podcast and leave us a quick review! 
It helps us get these human stories out there!

Thanks, as ever, for listening. 

Go well. Be well. Human well.
www.humancogs.com
Learn more and support the show: https://www.humancogs.com/

&ldquo;How many kids do you have?&rdquo;
It&rsquo;s a question asked so casually, often as part of small talk. Yet, for those who dreamed of parenthood but find themselves childless, these four words can land with a heavy blow.
Today&rsquo;s guest,&nbsp;Kelly Donougher, is a successful interior designer and founder of&nbsp;13 Interiors, with design studios in Perth and Melbourne. But behind her professional success lies a deeply personal story. In her new book&nbsp;No Fence, No Limits, Kelly opens up about her and her husband&rsquo;s decade-long journey with infertility&mdash;marked by rounds of medical interventions, the heartbreak of miscarriage, and the ongoing process of navigating grief.
In our conversation, Kelly shares the tension between meeting society&rsquo;s expectations and honouring her own truths, how the medical system can make you feel like just another number, and what it means to carve out an identity beyond parenthood. She also reflects on how grief, while devastating, can spark transformation&mdash;and how creativity and career reinvention became lifelines of healing.
This is a conversation not just about infertility, but about the universal struggle with life&rsquo;s &ldquo;shoulds,&rdquo; the boxes we&rsquo;re told to tick, and the courage it takes to choose a different path. Kelly&rsquo;s story is one of perseverance, hope, surrender, and ultimately, acceptance. Most of all, she reminds us that even when our sense of agency feels diminished, we still hold the power to choose.
To learn more about Kelly&rsquo;s book, head to&nbsp;<a href="http://kellydonougher.com/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://kellydonougher.com&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1758615548452000&amp;usg=AOvVaw1u-GGZAZ5_EmyMP4VvmHob">kellydonougher.com</a>, and to explore her beautiful design work, visit&nbsp;<a href="http://13interiors.com/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=http://13interiors.com&amp;source=gmail&amp;ust=1758615548452000&amp;usg=AOvVaw3Eehe9fp8briqSpTjo1keR">13interiors.com</a>.
 Host: Sabina Read Producer: Audio Superstar Daryl Missen
***** Human Cogs is available wherever you get your podcasts or via our website where you can also catch stacks of great conversations with previous guests :)
Got some thoughts on today's episode you'd like to share?
Get in touch via website or Instagram @human.cogs
We'd love you to share our podcast and leave us a quick review!&nbsp; It helps us get these human stories out there!
Thanks, as ever, for listening.&nbsp;
Go well. Be well. Human well. www.humancogs.com Learn more and support the show: https://www.humancogs.com/

What if the stories we hide are the ones that shape us most?

Human Cogs is the podcast that rips the veneer off everyday life to reveal the raw human truths that lie underneath our everyday lives.

Hosted by award-winning entrepreneur, startup investor and ABC journalist and presenter Madeleine Hanger (Grummet), alongside psychologist and media commentator Sabina Read, each episode unpacks big ideas, untold truths and the messy magic of being human.

From life’s darkest moments to its most profound joys, our extraordinary guests share secrets they’ve never told, surprising insights into love, loss, success and identity — and the hard-won wisdom that just might change the way you live, think and feel.

If you're curious about what really makes people tick this is the podcast for you.

🎧 Subscribe now and listen wherever you get your podcasts.
🌐 www.humancogs.com

What if the stories we hide are the ones that shape us most?
Human Cogs is the podcast that rips the veneer off everyday life to reveal the raw human truths that lie underneath our everyday lives.
Hosted by award-winning entrepreneur, startup investor and ABC journalist and presenter&nbsp;<a href="https://linktr.ee/MadeleineGrummet">Madeleine Hanger (Grummet)</a>, alongside psychologist and media commentator <a href="https://www.sabinareadpsychology.com.au/">Sabina Read</a>, each episode unpacks big ideas, untold truths and the messy magic of being human.
From life&rsquo;s darkest moments to its most profound joys, our <a href="https://www.humancogs.com/guests">extraordinary guests</a> share secrets they&rsquo;ve never told, surprising insights into love, loss, success and identity &mdash; and the hard-won wisdom that just might change the way you live, think and feel.
If you're curious about what really makes people tick this is the podcast for you.
🎧 Subscribe now and listen wherever you get your podcasts. 🌐 <a href="http://www.humancogs.com" data-start="1147" data-end="1192">www.humancogs.com</a>

Human Cogs Podcast

Humans Cogs brings you stories that matter, hard-won wisdom and raw conversations about what's really going on in people's lives.

Hosted by award-winning entrepreneur, journalist and investor Madeleine Grummet and psychologist and media contributor Sabina Read, each episode features raw conversations with extraordinary guests who lift the lid on their real lives to help you explore what you think you know about yourself, and the changing world around you.

Human Cogs is a point of universal connection for us all, exploring the things that bring us together, and the things that tear us apart.

Humans Cogs brings you stories that matter, hard-won wisdom and raw conversations about what's really going on in people's lives. Hosted by award-winning entrepreneur, journalist and investor <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/madeleinegrummet">Madeleine Grummet</a> and psychologist and media contributor <a href="https://www.sabinareadpsychology.com.au/">Sabina Read</a>, each episode features raw conversations with <a href="https://www.humancogs.com/guests">extraordinary guests</a> who lift the lid on their real lives to help you explore what you think you know about yourself, and the changing world around you. Human Cogs is a point of universal connection for us all, exploring the things that bring us together, and the things that tear us apart.

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