What separates change that leaves people exhausted from change that actually energises an organisation?

In this episode of HR Unlocked, Lisa Oakley sits down with Roz Urbahn, Chief Corporate Services Officer at Pāmu, for a wide-ranging conversation about leadership, transformation, mindset, resilience, and the changing role of HR.

Roz's career has spanned complex transformation and senior leadership roles across organisations including Fletcher Building, Lion, Vodafone, Foxtel, Frucor Beverages, Hudson, and now Pāmu. Her current portfolio extends well beyond traditional People & Culture, encompassing health and safety and well-being, communications, government relations, and sustainability.

One of the central themes of the conversation is mindset. Roz explains that organisations can execute a technically perfect change process and still leave people feeling "battered, bruised, and burnt". What matters is everything surrounding the formal process: the conversations beforehand, the availability of leaders throughout, genuine consultation, and the willingness to listen when employees challenge the proposed approach.

Roz also introduces positive intelligence, describing how understanding our internal "saboteurs" can help us recognise the gap between an event and our response. She shares her own tendencies towards restlessness and being a Hyper-Achiever, and how greater awareness helps turn an inner critic into something closer to a coach.

The conversation then turns to the future of HR. Roz believes the old conversation about HR earning "a seat at the table" is finished. In her words, HR is now "holding the table up". She argues that today's strongest HR professionals combine power skills with commercial judgement, adaptation, optimism, and an ability to help organisations make better decisions.

From resilience and boundaries to getting out into the business, simplifying HR processes, learning from difficult career decisions, and building your own trusted "board" or village, this episode is full of practical lessons grounded in lived experience.

What You'll Learn


Why technically correct change processes can still leave people disengaged


What genuine consultation looks like in practice


Why leaders need to remain available throughout change, not just at the beginning and end


How curiosity can turn employee feedback into better transformation outcomes


What positive intelligence is and how it differs from IQ and EQ


How internal "saboteurs" can influence leadership behaviour


Why self-awareness only matters if you actually do something with it


How to turn your inner critic into a more constructive coach


Why HR's role is now deeply commercial as well as people-focused


Why the traditional "seat at the table" conversation is outdated


How boundaries, prioritisation, feedback, and debriefing support resilience


Why HR professionals need strong networks inside and outside their organisations


How moving beyond traditional HR can broaden your leadership perspective


Why physically understanding frontline work improves decision-making


How HR can reduce complexity by simplifying policies and processes


Why automation should remove unnecessary steps rather than add more


What Roz learned from taking a promotion without asking enough questions


Why title and salary aren't always the best measures of a good career move


How building your own "board" or village can help during difficult periods


Why asking for help is a leadership strength, not a failure

Key Takeaways
A perfect change process doesn't guarantee a positive employee experience.
The conversations before, during, and after formal change processes can determine whether transformation succeeds.
True consultation requires leaders to be genuinely willing to change their minds.
Employee engagement can actually rise during change when people believe in the goal, have a voice, and feel involved.
Positive intelligence helps leaders recognise the internal reactions that influence how they respond to situations.
Self-awareness is only useful when it leads to different behaviour.
The traits that make someone successful can also become derailers if they aren't managed consciously.
HR's role is no longer just about "soft skills". Commercial judgement and decision-making are fundamental.
People & Culture professionals need boundaries because much of their work is emotionally demanding and difficult to switch off from.
Strong relationships and external networks are important resilience tools.
HR should spend more time immersed in the actual work of the organisation. Roz describes this as being second only to safety in importance.
If HR wants to improve productivity, a good starting point is fewer policies, simpler processes, fewer steps, and greater automation.
A promotion isn't automatically the right next career move. Ask questions about the actual work, environment, and expectations before being swayed by title or salary.
You don't have to have every answer. Knowing when to seek other perspectives is increasingly important in an uncertain world.

About Roz Urbahn

Roz Urbahn is Chief Corporate Services Officer at Pāmu, New Zealand's state-owned farming business.

She leads a broad portfolio including People & Culture, health and safety and well-being, communications, government relations, and sustainability.

Roz has significant executive leadership experience across Australia and New Zealand, with senior roles across organisations including Fletcher Building, Lion, Vodafone, Foxtel, Frucor Beverages, Hudson, and Pāmu.

Her career has been shaped by complex transformation, organisational performance, culture, commercial decision-making, and a willingness to say yes to opportunities outside the traditional boundaries of HR.

She is particularly passionate about helping people do great work, feel valued, embrace change with optimism, and creating environments where people can contribute at their best.

Why This Episode Matters

Change isn't slowing down.

Technology, workforce expectations, commercial pressure, safety, productivity, and increasingly complex roles mean organisations need people who can adapt without losing sight of the humans experiencing that change.

This episode offers a practical reminder that successful transformation requires more than process. It requires leaders who listen, remain curious, communicate honestly, and recognise their own impact.

For HR professionals, Roz also provides a compelling view of where the profession is heading: more commercial, more adaptive, broader in scope, and increasingly responsible for helping organisations simplify complexity rather than creating more of it.

Whether you're an HR professional, executive, business owner, people leader, or someone navigating your own career decisions, this conversation offers practical lessons on mindset, change, resilience, and asking better questions.

Resources & Links

Pāmu:https://pamunewzealand.com/.  

Connect with Roz Urbahn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roz-urbahn-03b1315/

What separates change that leaves people exhausted from change that actually energises an organisation?
In this episode of HR Unlocked, Lisa Oakley sits down with Roz Urbahn, Chief Corporate Services Officer at Pāmu, for a wide-ranging conversation about leadership, transformation, mindset, resilience, and the changing role of HR.
Roz's career has spanned complex transformation and senior leadership roles across organisations including Fletcher Building, Lion, Vodafone, Foxtel, Frucor Beverages, Hudson, and now Pāmu. Her current portfolio extends well beyond traditional People &amp; Culture, encompassing health and safety and well-being, communications, government relations, and sustainability.
One of the central themes of the conversation is mindset. Roz explains that organisations can execute a technically perfect change process and still leave people feeling "battered, bruised, and burnt". What matters is everything surrounding the formal process: the conversations beforehand, the availability of leaders throughout, genuine consultation, and the willingness to listen when employees challenge the proposed approach.
Roz also introduces positive intelligence, describing how understanding our internal "saboteurs" can help us recognise the gap between an event and our response. She shares her own tendencies towards restlessness and being a Hyper-Achiever, and how greater awareness helps turn an inner critic into something closer to a coach.
The conversation then turns to the future of HR. Roz believes the old conversation about HR earning "a seat at the table" is finished. In her words, HR is now "holding the table up". She argues that today's strongest HR professionals combine power skills with commercial judgement, adaptation, optimism, and an ability to help organisations make better decisions.
From resilience and boundaries to getting out into the business, simplifying HR processes, learning from difficult career decisions, and building your own trusted "board" or village, this episode is full of practical lessons grounded in lived experience.
What You'll Learn
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What genuine consultation looks like in practice
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How curiosity can turn employee feedback into better transformation outcomes
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How moving beyond traditional HR can broaden your leadership perspective
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How HR can reduce complexity by simplifying policies and processes
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What Roz learned from taking a promotion without asking enough questions
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Why title and salary aren't always the best measures of a good career move
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How building your own "board" or village can help during difficult periods
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Why asking for help is a leadership strength, not a failure
</li>
</ul>
Key Takeaways
<ul>
<li>A perfect change process doesn't guarantee a positive employee experience.</li>
<li>The conversations before, during, and after formal change processes can determine whether transformation succeeds.</li>
<li>True consultation requires leaders to be genuinely willing to change their minds.</li>
<li>Employee engagement can actually rise during change when people believe in the goal, have a voice, and feel involved.</li>
<li>Positive intelligence helps leaders recognise the internal reactions that influence how they respond to situations.</li>
<li>Self-awareness is only useful when it leads to different behaviour.</li>
<li>The traits that make someone successful can also become derailers if they aren't managed consciously.</li>
<li>HR's role is no longer just about "soft skills". Commercial judgement and decision-making are fundamental.</li>
<li>People &amp; Culture professionals need boundaries because much of their work is emotionally demanding and difficult to switch off from.</li>
<li>Strong relationships and external networks are important resilience tools.</li>
<li>HR should spend more time immersed in the actual work of the organisation. Roz describes this as being second only to safety in importance.</li>
<li>If HR wants to improve productivity, a good starting point is fewer policies, simpler processes, fewer steps, and greater automation.</li>
<li>A promotion isn't automatically the right next career move. Ask questions about the actual work, environment, and expectations before being swayed by title or salary.</li>
<li>You don't have to have every answer. Knowing when to seek other perspectives is increasingly important in an uncertain world.</li>
</ul>
About Roz Urbahn
Roz Urbahn is Chief Corporate Services Officer at Pāmu, New Zealand's state-owned farming business.
She leads a broad portfolio including People &amp; Culture, health and safety and well-being, communications, government relations, and sustainability.
Roz has significant executive leadership experience across Australia and New Zealand, with senior roles across organisations including Fletcher Building, Lion, Vodafone, Foxtel, Frucor Beverages, Hudson, and Pāmu.
Her career has been shaped by complex transformation, organisational performance, culture, commercial decision-making, and a willingness to say yes to opportunities outside the traditional boundaries of HR.
She is particularly passionate about helping people do great work, feel valued, embrace change with optimism, and creating environments where people can contribute at their best.
Why This Episode Matters
Change isn't slowing down.
Technology, workforce expectations, commercial pressure, safety, productivity, and increasingly complex roles mean organisations need people who can adapt without losing sight of the humans experiencing that change.
This episode offers a practical reminder that successful transformation requires more than process. It requires leaders who listen, remain curious, communicate honestly, and recognise their own impact.
For HR professionals, Roz also provides a compelling view of where the profession is heading: more commercial, more adaptive, broader in scope, and increasingly responsible for helping organisations simplify complexity rather than creating more of it.
Whether you're an HR professional, executive, business owner, people leader, or someone navigating your own career decisions, this conversation offers practical lessons on mindset, change, resilience, and asking better questions.
Resources &amp; Links
Pāmu: <a href="https://pamunewzealand.com/">https://pamunewzealand.com/. &nbsp;</a>
Connect with Roz Urbahn on LinkedIn:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/roz-urbahn-03b1315/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/roz-urbahn-03b1315/</a>

HR Unlocked with Lisa Oakley is a leadership conversation series where thoughtful HR and business leaders share lived experience on people, risk, culture, and compliance. It is designed for business owners, senior leaders, and HR professionals across Australasia to learn from real decisions and leadership judgment. The show is a platform to honour the contribution of leaders willing to share their experience.

HR Unlocked with Lisa Oakley is a leadership conversation series where thoughtful HR and business leaders share lived experience on people, risk, culture, and compliance. It is designed for business owners, senior leaders, and HR professionals across Australasia to learn from real decisions and leadership judgment. The show is a platform to honour the contribution of leaders willing to share their experience.