How to MoneyAsking the Right Questions to Save More Money w/ Matt Schulz #836
If you have kids or been around kids, you might have noticed that they’re not the best at solving their own problems. It’s a continual process of teaching them to advocate for themselves and that there’s more to it than just stating their problem. So for instance “I’m thirsty” might be a constant refrain and while it’s great to recognize the issue at hand, the goal is to turn that into a request: “Can I have some orange juice?” OK, now we’re getting somewhere! Now she’s taken a proactive step in solving her own problem. This is an important lesson to learn because as we’ll discuss today it’s basically up to us to resolve our own financial conflicts once we’re launched into the real world. We need to be our own advocates in every area of life, but certainly when it comes to our money! Joining us today is Matt Schulz who is the chief credit analyst at LendingTree, and he is also the author of the new book, “Ask Questions, Save Money, Make More” which is essentially a money manual that teaches readers the important questions we need to ask. So whether you naturally speak up for yourself, or would rather disappear back into the bushes, be sure and listen to this episode centering around individual empowerment.
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Best friends out!
Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt, and today we're talking about asking the right questions so you can save more money with Matt Schultz. Yeah, So lately, I've been working with my kids.
To teach them to advocate for themselves, and specifically, what I've been working on is teaching them that there is more to that than just stating a problem. So, for instance, one of our kids, she'll say like, I'm thirsty, which okay, it is great to recognize the issue at hand, but to make a request, for instance, can I have some OJ Now? We are getting somewhere right now, she has taken a proactive step in solving her own problem.
Where the fridges.
But this is an important lesson to learn because, as we'll just us today, it's basically up to us to resolve our own financial conflicts and problems. No one is out there who's going to save us. And joining us today is Matt Schultz, who is the chief credit analyst at lending Tree. He's also the author of the new book Ask Questions, Save Money, Make More, which is essentially a money manual that teaches readers the important questions that we all need to ask He includes decision trees. He includes a whole lot of practical tools, even scripts that will help us to do just what the title says. So, Matt, we're excited to talk with you about your book. Thank you for joining us today on the podcast.
Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Of course. Yeah, Matt, We're looking forward to this. First question, though, we ask everybody who comes on the show, is what's your craft beer equivalent? Which means what do you spend potentially abnormally amount of money on while you're still doing the right thing, you're saving and investing wisely for your future.
I'm kind of nerdy about obstacle course racing, Okay, So I'm one of those guys who does. I've done a half dozen I think Spartan races and a couple of other couple of other races kind of like that. So I'm the guy who pays money to crawl through mud, under bug wire and carry giant buckets uphills and stuff for some reason. But I love it, and it's a lot of fun.
Electric shock therapy that you've participated in, And do they have like the live wires hanging out or is that maybe something that they decided to rule.
Out because of the liability.
Perhaps no electric shock, no no beatings or anything like that, but still it's it's a lot of work.
Nice, couldn't you have just joined the Marines and maybe had a similar experience but gotten paid for it.
Oh? Man, I have some folks in my family who would have been very very happy if I had done that, But not in the cards for me.
Nice.
Well, maybe a tough mutter or a Spartan races in the cards for us. Joel Matt Joel and I are both signed up to run the Peach Tree, which is a ten k, which is obviously nothing compared to it.
It is that to mention it that you're.
Doing, but pretty old for you in particular. Man, this is like you're I don't know. It's the first more serious race for you, so I think it'll It will be a ton of fun. It's good to physically challenge yourself.
It rains a lot. Hey, it might involve mud. We'll see, that's true.
There you go.
And and for me it helps because I'm somebody who like I, I like to stay active and all that, but I also can get lazy if I don't have goals that I'm pushing towards and and you learn pretty quick when you're doing a spartan race or a tough mutter that if you haven't prepared it all, it's gonna it's gonna be a long day. And so knowing that I have one of those a few months out or whatever, it can be really motivating.
I love it.
I get that caused you to get after it.
Matt. Let's uh, let's talk about your book, because it starts with a simple premise, which is that we have more control over over our finances than we think. But that being said, we've all experienced inflation, can't control that rapidly rising home prices. We're talking about out of control government spending as well. There's nothing that we can do about any of those. But you still say that there's more to our personal finances than what is happening outside of us. Can you kind of explain the premise and make an argument for that.
Yeah. Absolutely, It's something that I've said over and over again for years at lending Tree and in previous jobs. And basically, the idea is that you have way more money, way more power over your money than you realize. And that's true whether you're talking about asking for a lower interest rate on a credit card, lowering your medical bill, talking to your elderly parents about money, or splitting the bill at a group dinner without getting stuck paid two thirds of it. And it's just something that you need to be aware of and that you need to be willing to take some action and be a little bit vulnerable, and especially when it comes to businesses. Really the idea behind it all is the power comes from the idea of business is viewing you in terms of your lifetime value, so meaning that if the longer you stick around as a customer, the more money a business is going to make off of you. Thus it is worth their money to keep you around and do things it keep you happy. So if they waive a forty dollars credit card late fee and it keeps you happy and has you spending on that card for years and years to come, it's a complete no brainer for them. And same thing with like logo t shirts at gyms and that sort of stuff. So once you kind of once you kind of understand that idea, it can change your mindset to where you feel like you're coming at it from a position of power rather than kind of bended me.
Gotcha, So you're kind of that that's why they're willing to offer us discounts. I guess if you're specifically talking about a retailer, it's because, hey, they know they might take it on the chin this one time, but it's in order to keep you happy, to keep you coming back, because they know they've got a bunch of future sales lined up with you if they can keep you happy.
Now. Yeah, that's really what it gets down to in a lot of ways, And in my job at lending Tree, I talk about it a lot with specifically with banks in particular, because banks want you to stick around because, for one, if even if you have a credit card and you spend on it but you never carry a balance and never pay any interest, banks still make money off of you spending. And they also know that they can upsell to you. If you have a credit card there maybe they can get you a personal loan or an auto loan or something down the line. Or when you have kids, maybe maybe you make that kid an authorized user on a card, or there's a million different ways that it can happen. And it really is all about understanding that you are valuable and you matter, so you can kind of flex a little bit of that power and use it to use it to help you save a little money.
Okay, let's talk about the problem of like more rays, perhaps, Matt, because we talk about asking for a discount pretty regularly on the show, but it's a very underrated thing to do. Why is it that you think some of you folks just fail to attempt asking for a discount.
Well, there's a million reasons, but two of the biggest are simply that they just don't know that you can do it. So awareness, yeah, yeah, and then also just the fact that it's scary, and like, I'm somebody who talks on camera and on podcasts for for a living, and I don't like raising my hand in a group full of people or speaking up or advocating for myself. I'm not that great at it. And so the average person, it's it's a nerve racking thing. And even when you may know that you have a really good chance to get your way, it's still nerve wracking putting yourself out there and risking rejection and risking being told no. So it's it takes a lot for people to do it. And I talk about in the book, it's like, we don't shame people for not doing these things. We try and help them feel more comfortable and feel emboldened to take those steps because it can make a difference.
I'm the kind of guy who if I order a stake medium and it comes like even if it's like well done, I have a hard time sending it back. It just feels like disrespectful, right, and I do. Yeah. I think that's like the maybe feeling some people get too sometimes w comes to asking for a discount, is they're like, I don't want to I don't want to feel like I'm disrespecting the business owner. Can you talk about the difference between maybe asking a big corporation for a discount versus pestering a small business owner, Like, is there a different approach that people need to take, Like if I'm if I'm talking to Walmart or Amazon, should I be doing something differently than I'm doing with like somebody who owns a boutique shop down the street.
Short answer is yes, And you may even there are people who I've spoke with spoke with one hundred plus people for the book, and there are plenty of people who I talked to who said, I don't even negotiate with small businesses because I understand the hustle and I understand how tight the margins are. And there's other things like that for you know, artists or you know things like that, where you're just like, I'm going to respect that person and honor the work that they've put in by not negotiating with them, whereas with Amazon and Chase in places like that, going at it like a like a shark and a feeding frenzy. So so, but there is a difference, for sure, and especially when you're talking about a small business, it really is about kind of being as close to the decision maker as you possibly can when you are when you're doing the negotiating. So like that's why things like a small boutique clothing store where one of the people in the store might be the owner, or in an independent pharmacy places like that, the closer you can get to talking to the owner or the manager or somebody who is in a position of decision making, the easier it is.
But doesn't that also make it harder to actually ask for the discout because like it's I guess it's easier for me to reach out to or say something to a company that's larger where there's a manager, but something about talking to an owner of a smaller business like you said, like for instance, of a boutique. That's where things start to get a little bit dicey, because I know that that is the person that controls, you know, the outcome of what it is that I'm requesting. But also that's the most honestly difficult request to make of the actual owner who's poured their sweat and tears, who's put their own personal dreams on hold in order to provide for their family in this way, Like, how do you kind of square how do you sort of write the two goals here that you're trying to see to fruition.
Well, I think I think some of it is just being respectful, and you know, there's a difference between going in and asking for a little bit of a discount and asking for like fifty percent off. There are also things that you can do to kind of make it a little bit of a win win for a small business where you can say, like I mean, we've all been to you know, restaurants and that sort of thing where somebody's just getting started and they ask you to leave a review and Yelp or wherever else the case might be. But you can do things like that where helping them build some word of mouth by talking about it through social media, that sort of thing. Those sorts of things are things that you can do that can make everybody happy and you're getting a little bit of a discount and you're helping this small struggling business spread the word.
So you mentioned that you talk to a bunch of people. You interviewed a bunch of folks about how they're able to be kind of successful when it comes to asking the right questions in order to get a discount. Having those conversations, what were some of the most common factors for success that you found. What approach and tactics were they taking that seemed like they worked the best.
Well of the One of the best things that you can do, and one of the things people talked about is role playing. So if you're going to ask for a lower interest rate on a credit card, get with a trusted friend or relative and literally kind of practice what that conversation might sound like. You know, you do it a few times where the first time everything goes perfectly smoothly. The second time maybe you, maybe you have your friend throw a little bit of a weird question at you or push you back a little bit, and then the third time let the person really hammer you and make it difficult on you. And you know it's it's the idea that you know, coaches talk about making the practice more difficult than the game, and there's there's something to be said for taking the time to practice. You obviously can't predict everything that somebody is going to throw your way, but even just having that little dry run of that conversation can help you feel a little bit more confident.
I believe it.
Yeah, Okay, talk about the medium of like the form of communication that you're using when you are, say, asking for a discount, Because obviously, at least for me, the ability to hop on like with an online chat and be like, hey, mess my payment, how about we waive that late fee? Never done that before, promise I'll never do it again. That's really easy for me to do. But simultaneously, I got to think that oftentimes those less personal forms of communication might be less impactful.
Can you talk about that for a second for sure?
Yeah, And there are definitely cases where you can just go in through a chatbot or stuff like that. If it's a really straightforward thing that probably a million people ask for, that you might be able to make it work. But one of the kind of fundamental underpinnings of the book is the importance of kind of making that connection and have that rapport with that person who you're talking to. And the best way to do that is either face to face or over the phone, which is a completely understand as a decidedly old school way of doing things, and companies seem like they're making it more and more difficult by the day to actually connect with anybody over the phone. But if you can do that, and you can speak with that person and tell them your story, and even just if it's like a little bit of chit chat or whatever the case might be with that person, having that connection with that real person can make a difference, because I mean, all you have to do is go on social media for three seconds to see that. People often feel way more emboldened when they are just writing out into nothingness, as it put, and are willing to say things that they would never say to somebody's face or over the phone. So that's it's an old school concept and I totally get that. But part of this book is about the power of the phone call and the power of the face to face conversation.
All right, how important and how powerful is it to be able to walk away completely if you don't get the price or the terms you want. And sometimes I think we're negotiating or we're haggling for something, even though it's not necessarily a common feature in American life, whereas it is in other cultures. We might haggle for something and then realize that we could have just easily gotten it cheap or somewhere else. So maybe we're haggling and wasting our time I guess in haggling. So yeah, talk to me about like searching for prices or you know, independently before you start to negotiate, or maybe like knowing the market before you start that negotiation process. And then, yeah, how powerful can it be just to walk away?
Enormously powerful? I mean you have to understand what the risks are of walking away, and they can be very different from one thing to another. But you always think about being in a car dealership and the car dealer says it's my final offer, and then you walk away and the person comes chasing after you out the door going wait, wait, no, we have one other thing. And that doesn't just happen in car dealerships. It happens all over the place. And if you are willing to walk away, then it can help you. And I mean that's even true where if you if you call your cable company or your cell phone provider or places like that and you cancel or you bring up canceling, they may follow up with an email saying we want you back, that sort of thing. So there is a lot of power because again, these companies know that when you are their customer, they make money off of you and they want you to stick around. So that's a lot of where your power comes from.
Okay, so when you're talking about, like speak region a company, Let's say it's your celf phone provider. Let's say it's your internet provider. Whoever, I've always heard the customer retention department, like, those are the people that you get to. Those are the people who have a little more leeway. You get the regular person in the general customer service department, and they might shut you down. But then maybe you say, all right, I'm thinking about canceling, and that's what they'll transfer you to the customer retention department. How do you know you're at the right place, You're speaking of the right people who then have the power to do something because you might have asked, you might have tried to negotiate, and you're just talking to the wrong person, and so you end up canceling when you could have gotten a better deal if you had been talking to somebody else.
Yeah, who you talk to really matters, And yes, the customer retention department or some other terminology along those lines is a good thing to ask for, or if you feel like you're getting some if you're not getting anywhere. And that's another thing that can make people feel better about making these calls is that companies expect them and they train their employees to handle them. And chances are, when you're making that call, you're probably not bringing anything anybody hasn't thrown at that person ten times before. So sure you're not going out of bounds, you're not overstepping your bounds or whatever. People companies expect negotiation, expect pushback, at least to some degree, and so it's important that people understand.
That nice awesome so far.
Mask given some anecdotes as to where it is that we can ask the right questions. But after the break, we're going to dive into some specific industries where we spend a lot of money. There's a lot of money that we're hemorrhaging that we want to be able to inform and encourage listeners to hang on to get to all of that and more. Right after the break.
Or we're back from the break, we're still talking with Matt Schultz. We're talking about asking the right questions so you can save more money, and how you have more control than you think over what you pay for things. Matt, let's get into some the specific areas and the specific questions to ask and the specific things to push back on. In the book, you start off by talking about how to negotiate credit and debt terms. And you say that credit card interest rates, for example, obviously they've been rising quickly for somebody out there with like ten thousand bucks in credit card debt, that rapid rise and interest rates that can be costly. But and you mentioned this actually just a minute ago, but that interest rates on credit card debt are negotiable. That's not something people usually think to negotiate. They think of that as the thing the terms that the bank sets, and then hey, I'm just getting bludgeoned over the head with it. How do you actually go about negotiating that?
You definitely can, And frankly, that idea of negotiating credit card interest rates was the impetus behind the book because in my job at lending Tree, I've talked about the fact that's seventy six percent or roughly around their percent of folks who ask for a lower interest rate on their credit card get one. And I can't tell you how many interviews I've done over the years where people are like, oh my god, really, I had no idea. Why don't people talk about that more? And after so much time of getting that type of reaction, I was like, Okay, I've got something here I need to go. I dive a little bit deeper in and what you need to do to get that lower rate is, first of all, have a basic idea of what type of credit you have, because if you have a five fifty credit score and you ask for the lower lowest interest rate available, you're not going to get it. So it can at least help you kind of frame things that way, and then from there you go about looking for other offers that you might be qualified for, whether it's from a site like lending Tree, or from the bank that you have your checking and savings accounts with, or something that came in your snail mail or whatever. And then you look at that and you say, well, okay, I'm going to call my bank and say I've had your card for a couple of years, I've never missed a payment. I like the benefits of it, But I have a twenty seven percent interest rate and I've just been offered a card with a twenty one percent interest rate? Is there anything that you can do to match that? And your bank's absolutely going to listen to you, And the chances that they will match or at least kind of get you in the ballpark of that matched number is way higher than people realize.
So basically you're arming yourself with information, which so I mean, that's that's key to obviously any negotiation.
But the kid just come on and be like, I'd like zero percent for the next eighteen months, no reason, I.
Just want it. Yeah, I mean I guess you could do that, but yeah, I feel like having the empirical data on your side is incredibly helpful. But if you I mean, let's say you do make that call, you even talk through one of the scripts that you offer there in the book, Matt, but then you're told no, does it come down to you having you know, it sounds kind of funny to say it in this in these terms, but to have the courage to just bounce and to move on to one of those other credit cards, obviously with a plan to actually eliminate your your debt. But does it come down to your willingness to actually be able to walk?
It could, But as funny as this may sound, it may just come down to you talking to the wrong person on the wrong day.
So some again, is what you're saying.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, even if it's even if it's a couple hours later, because in these in these big customer service centers that these giant megabanks have, when you call back, you're probably not going to get the same person. And if you get somebody who has been yelled at ten times that day, they may not feel that great about helping you out. But if you call back a couple hours later, and it may even be worth calling multiple times to see and just giving it a shot. And if it's ultimately you keep striking out, then maybe you threaten to move on. But with something like a credit card, when you're threatening to move on, you have to understand the implications of canceling that credit card when it comes to your credit score and things like that, because that's that's not a that's not an insignificant thing, So it's something you need to know about before you actually canceled that card.
So maybe the most shocking stat in your book was you found that ninety three percent of folks who asked for an annual fee on a credit card to be waived were successful when they asked. And it's interesting because the best credit cards come with annual fees, right, But oftentimes people are like, I don't want to pay the ninety five or five hundred and ninety five dollars for the annual fee, but I would love those perks to come alongside it. I guess like even myself, I would probably reconsider some of those credit cards that I haven't signed up for that I have higher annual fees if I knew I didn't have to pay it. So yeah, why are the credit card companies often willing to forgive that annual fee? And how should you go about asking to get that waved.
The big reason, well one of the big reasons why they're willing to wave it oftentimes is that folks who pay annual fees on credit cards tend to spend more on credit cards, and credit card companies make a ton of money off of you when you spend on that card, regardless of whether you carry a balance or pay them any interest or not. So that's part of why they're willing to waive that fee. And that ninety three percent success rate number is bonkers, and part of that is that it's like sixty percent got it waived in full and about thirty percent or so got it reduced, and even so that's a significant thing. But if you have one of those super high end cards where it's five hundred and fifty six hundred dollars annual fee, you're probably not going to get that waived unless you are a very special client. But if you have a eighty nine ninety five dollars annual fee, it certainly does not hurt to make that phone call and ask them to waive that annual fee. It probably won't be done permanently, and it may be something that you have to revisit every year. But eighty nine ninety five hundred bucks, that's real money. It's worth making that phone call.
Yeah, So maybe not the Amex Platinum, but perhaps the Amex Lucash preferred.
Yeah, which is yes exactly is that we love.
Let's talk about the healthcare system, Matt, because you you've written about this in your book as well. We've done entire episodes on just how broken it is. But can you navigate us through those nefarious waters, like how do we know what we need to pay and when it is that we should be pushing back on some of the bills that we're receiving.
Well, to me, this was the most fascinating part of the book and honestly the most challenging, because it's such a complex topic and the dollar amounts in it are just so crazy and so significant, and these bills wreck people's financial lives, and so it was it's just so important. And the thing that people told me over and over again was never pay that first bill. And the first medical bill is more or less a work of fiction, which is a wild thing to think about, but I've heard it over and over from people who spend their lives in this space. And the first thing that you should do. Go back to them and request an itemized bill with CPT codes on it. And CPT codes are to medical bills what bar codes are to retail they're kind of the language, the standardized language used in the medical space to describe what procedure, what service was done. And until you know what code is on that bill, you don't know exactly specifically what you are being charged for. And that's where a lot of mistakes happen, whether inadvertently or maliciously, and the difference between one code and another can be really, really significant. So it's worth your time.
So you've got those codes in hand, and you've got the itemized bill, and then how do you know which ones to who to contact and in the medical sphere, because that's another one like who are you calling and what are you asking?
Once you've gotten that bill, you can literally google CPT codes and search for those, and it's the stuff is available online where you can find And then you go back to the medical provider and you talk to them about, well, this says that this particular service was done, but no, I actually had this instead, or if the bill is correct and it seems high, or if you want to negotiate it. You can literally ask them, you know, about either a no interest payment plan that they would have available as opposed to using the medical credit card that they would offer you, or you can talk to them about negotiating and saying I'm on a tight budget, this is what I can afford to pay. Can you work with me? And that's that's a place to start.
All right. And one other thing too is lots of times on a lot of hospital websites there is a page for financial assistance, and a lot of people don't they're starting to negotiate something that maybe they qualify for full forgiveness for that bill anyway, or for a good portion of forgiveness just by going to the back end of the website and looking at the details that the hospital's already published about income limits, family size and what they're willing to forgive.
Right, yeah, yeah, no question. There's there's a lot that can be done, and it's it's probably not going to be the first thing that's offered to you. A lot of times, what might be offered to you is a medical credit card, which would be roughly akin to a retail credit card that you would be offered at Macy's or Best Buy or something like that, and that the medical provider will be making money off of.
So they'd love for you to do that instead.
Absolutely, And if you're offered that, just you can say, you know, tell me about no interest payment plan that you would have or other things that I might qualify for, like you were saying, based on my income and other aspects of things. So it's it's it's worth asking those questions.
Nice, all right, Matt. Let's tackle housing next, because we've always talked about how there are different ways to negotiate your rent, right, Like, maybe that's you taking over the long care, maybe signing a longer lease, bigger deposit, perhaps to make yourself a more attractive renter. But you say you can actually request a lower interest rate on your mortgage. Can you explain how that actually works?
Yeah, Yeah, there's a few things that you can do. For one, you need to shop around for various offers because there are major differences among different lenders in terms of interest rates and in terms of fees and all those sorts of things. So that is really really significant and certainly a place to start, not just in mortgages, but with cars and other things like that, so shopping around is certainly a significant thing, but also knowing what your options are in terms of various types of mortgages or options that you may have to lower that interest rate, things like points where you are paying a little more upfront to lower your interest rate, or getting a different getting looking at a fifteen year mortgage instead of a thirty year mortgage, or even an adjustable rate mortgage. These are all different things that you can look at that can change the interest rate that you would get from from that lender. There are definitely ups and downs and pros and cons and things that you need to understand before you take the plunge into these things. They're not things to be done lightly, but it is important to understand that there are options, and again you don't have to take the first thing that somebody throws at you, especially with something as expensive as buying a house.
Well related to housing as well, you talk about negotiating realtor commissions, which is this is like a to be decided sort of a question because I feel like we're still in a weird spot after the NAR ruling. But new question, jos should folks start to navigate that potentially touchy subject right now, especially, I'm just thinking about realtor friends who I.
Know personally personally, But yeah, for folks out there who.
Are looking to purchase at home, how do they go about starting to have some of those discussions.
Yeah, and this is one of those where, like you were saying, the world kind of shifted on its axis since I finished writing the book, and I touch on it a little bit in the section about reducing your real estate agent's commission, where it's like, this is coming and we don't necessarily know exactly how this is all going to look in a year or five years or whatever, but we know that stuff has changed a lot. And again, part of it is just again shopping around and talking to multiple agents and seeing who is willing to work for what and who is willing to be flexible with you in the with these commissions. And one of the things that I thought was interesting when I was interviewing people about it is that a realtor friend of mine, who obviously is a little biased as a realtor, but she was like, well, you need to be a little cautious because somebody who is too willing to negotiate their commission as a real estate agent may be a little bit may may not be the greatest negotiator for you negotiating the house, and there's a lot to lose there, so it may be a little bit of a be careful what you wish for sort of thing. But again it's one of those where it's certainly worth asking.
We've got more questions to get to with you, Matt, including we were talking about negotiating the price in the terms of a car. That's one of those things where you're expected to negotiate where some of these other places you're necessarily expecting to negotiate. We'll talk about that and more. We'll get to those questions right after this.
When we are fact from the break talking with Matt Schultz about asking questions and Joel mentioned the car, but maybe before we get to that, Matt, I wanted to ask you about what it looks like to negotiate with an employer or a potential employer. You dedicate a whole chapter to talking about that, are we talking about I mean, most of the time we're looking at not just your salary, but you're looking at some of those additional benefits as well.
Right, oh yeah, yeah, and especially now since we've come out of the pandemic and how maybe the most important benefit of all is where you work remote versus hybrid, versus one whatever. That's such an important thing to talk about, and so it's so important when you're going into these negotiations to understand not only what you want but also kind of what is standard in the market. And one of the great things that has emerged in the last decade or so is just greater transparency when it comes to salaries and all other types of benefits. So you can talk to your coworkers sometimes, although that can be a little dicey. You can talk to friends, colleagues, relatives and talk to them about what they're seeing and what is out there and what kind of the trends are, along with doing kind of online research to make sure that you are getting what you should get in these negotiations. And it's not just about salary, all right.
Let's say you feel a little scorned after that. You're like, I'm making an eighty and my friend just told me they're making one ten. They haven't been here as long as me, and like it's easy to take that information and be like, I don't know, negotiate poorly with it because you're hurt. How would you suggest someone take that information and then go back to their employer and ask for more money.
Well, I think that I think that some of it is just about presenting it as you having done your homework, and you seeing what your position is worth and what is traditionally what is traditionally paid and offered to somebody in your role, and the more you can take yourself out of it, like you said, as difficult as that can be, as much as you can take yourself out of it and make the kind of the data driven case that that you are worth this amount of money, the better off you'll be. And maybe that looks like running through what you have provided for the company and what you have accomplished in those sorts of things, along with data showing what somebody with your title, with your experience with your role is making. Because I do know that companies are being more sensitive now to kind of level setting their employee salaries as it relates to what is in the market out there, and so as scary as it might be to come into that conversation, I don't think that you should expect that your company it would be something that your company would never.
Have thought of so, okay, let's talk about buying a car or I was gonna say a new car, but most likely what we want to recommend for folks to do is buy a used car, a new to you car. And so a two part question, Matt, what kind of information should folks go into that negotiation with as they're talking to somebody who they're looking to buy a car from. What kind of information.
Should they have?
And then what kind of tactics should they use when it comes to having that conversation When it comes to having that negotiation.
Yeah, really, really, the best thing that you can do, assuming you're not just paying cash for that car, is to come in to that to that dealership pre approved for a loan from a credit union or some other some other lender source. Because a the dealership almost never has the best rate and financing and be it helps you frame the conversation where you don't have to worry about about the car dealer holding that over your head. It just changes the tone of things a little bit. So that is really really important. And again, going into that conversation having an idea of what you are looking for, what you're willing to pay, and kind of sticking to your guns and recognizing your value as a customer is a really really significant thing. So and then one of the other important things is understanding the value of timing to a degree. And we see this at you know, the end of the year, where a dealer is trying to move inventory, but that also happens at the end of the quarter and at the end of the month and times like that. So it is important for people to understand that it isn't necessarily always about what you ask or who you ask. It can also be about when you ask too, So all that stuff matters.
Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. One of the things I love about your book too, is that it's so DIY focused. It's like, hey, you can do these things. Hey, here's the scripts, Hey here's the tools, and here's the teaching. So that basically you should go out there and do it on your own, which I think is awesome. I think for the most part that's one hundred percent true. When might you need the help of a professional or be better served hiring someone to negotiate on your behalf. I'm thinking about something like property taxes in the states, where your property taxes can change like the wind and shift up dramatically a year overy year. You can challenge those yourself. You could also hire a pro to do it on your behalf. Buying a car, right, that's something people do every seven, eight years, ten years maybe, And so maybe they feel like, do I have to learn this whole rigamarole and go out there and challenge challenge the dealership to try to get the best deal, or should I just pay a service to help me do this? Maybe they'll come out with a better outcome anyway, your credit card debt amount like seeking a nonprofit credit or debt counselor maybe they can be more effective than I can be on my own. I don't know. I'm curious to hear your take on when maybe professional help would be best.
It really is kind of on a case by case thing, because for some people it's just a matter of they don't have the time. If you've got a bunch of little kids and a busy job and you really need the help and you've got maybe you don't have really a lot of time or money, but you actually might have a little bit more money than time, then you should absolutely use that money to buy yourself some time. So that can that can certainly be one, and you mentioned the nonprofit credit counselor side of things. Those folks are enormously helpful, and that is the kind of thing where where they can offer you more than just negotiating your card. They can offer you advice on budgeting and other kind of blocking and tackling sort of stuff in personal finance. So if you are somebody who feels like you need you just need somebody to guide you through these things, as opposed to you just needing to accomplish one or two things, then something like a credit counselor can be a really really big.
Help nice okay, Matt, Last, but not least, What is it that made you include the scorecard at the end of your book. Why do you think it's important for folks to track those different asks as well as the outcomes that they received.
Well, I wanted to leave that there because I wanted people to basically celebrate their wins. And if you use this book over time and you can see, oh, my goodness, you know I've saved myself a couple of hundred dollars, or I made that I got a five thousand dollars raise, or whatever the number might be. And you see that you write it down and it's kind of in front of your face. That sort of thing can be really motivating and really empowering. It's it's the whole idea of the snowball thing, right where you kind of start small and and once you get that first win, big or little, that sort of thing can be really addictive and can and can really help you kind of keep moving forward.
Yeah, we usually talk about addiction negatively. That's a good kind of day. I'm maintaining that momentum.
Yeah, it makes me think about the sort of example I gave at the beginning of like my kids solving some of their own problems, and yeah, that's empowerment and that equips them to be able to continue to solve their own problems. And essentially it sounds like that's kind of what you're doing there with the scorecard. But Matt, where can folks learn more about you and what you're up to, and specifically where it is that they can learn more about your book.
Yeah, you can learn more about me and my book at my website Matt Schultz dot com. It's s c h U l Z. And if you sign up for my newsletter there, I have a you get three free scripts from the book that can kind of give you a little bit of a taste for for what the book is about. And you can buy the book anywhere that you buy books online and it's available everywhere, and you can also follow me on socials at buy Matt Schultz.
That's great, Matt, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Love the book. And yeah, thanks so much again for coming on the show.
Thanks for having me.
This was fun, all right, nice little conversation with Matt Schultz about getting the discounts.
That we deserve. Joel, but you're entitled to. Oh I almost got into a title like that's not true.
But it's less about entitlement and it's more about understanding what you're worth. And so I'm gonna go ahead and jump to my big takeaway because we kind of segueing into it, which was to understand your lifetime value as a customer. It's it's kind of like the overarching principle I think, and he mentioned it early on. We oftentimes look at things in a very like in snapshots in very short periods of time, right like where the TikTok generation, Instagram like reels like the small spans of time that we have our attention held for, and I think I start to wonder if our attention is being reduced to those little, small, bite sized pieces as well. And I think what that could also mean is that we have a hard time looking beyond the immediate and in the short term. Oh, it's uncomfortable to ask for a discount, But what Matt pointing to is the fact that, no, you need to think about this long term, because that's what these businesses are doing, especially especially these larger, larger businesses, when they're thinking, like you said, about upselling and the future products that you may partake in. Oh, the fact that you might have kids who are also going to be loyal to this brand. I think that's just an incredibly helpful way to inform how it is that we are thinking about ourselves not just as savvy consumers, but also as investors and all the other smart ways that we handle our money.
And those businesses they don't want to do irreparable harm to that relationship with you, because they mean, they know that means fewer sales down the road. Then they know that means less loyalty. If you call up your credit card company and they're like yeah, we're not going to help you out. We're not going to wave that thirty nine dollars late feet or whatever. Well, they realize that means you might never use that card again, and that could be tens of thousands of dollars of spending in the coming years that therefore going because they made you mad that one time. And so yeah, I think companies are cognizant of that, which is great. That is the way they should be. That's how businesses should be run. It's also a very.
Do you think it's overly rational way of Uh? Is it giving businesses too much credit? Because unfortunately there is that.
Enlightened self interest which we talk about in capitalism that makes sense. It's it's not just that businesses don't live. They don't survive for very long. If it's all about that momentary win.
It happend to be about It depends on leadership, right, Because if you have somebody have a CEO, you have a CFO who's coming in and they're just there to make a big splash and there wells fargo and they would have and they want to boose profits for a couple of quarters or a couple of years, you do fall into that sort of short term thinking loop, but eventually that comes back to bite them in. Think about not going to last.
Think about the damage that has been done to a brand of a company like Wells Fargo now, which we tell everyone to stay away from no matter what, like, don't do business with them because they're that like And have they changed turned over a new leaf. I don't know, like time will tell, but it's hard to redo that and repair the damage that's done when the business has treated people so poorly totally. So I think my big takeaway was kind of at the end where it's like document your successes, and I think that that is an unsoid like I thought. I thought about it for a little bit and I was like, yeah, it seems kind of like goofy, but I think it's true. Then when you document those things and you realize, wait a second, Over the past year, I've saved a total of nine hundred and twelve dollars in this area, this area, in this area by asking these questions. It took me a grand total of this much time. Yeah, and you're like, wait a second, that's a lot of money, And I think it starts to beget you. You start to get more impoltant to ask to use these tools again and again and again, realizing that you have more power than you thought you have. And I just I think it is an important thing to recognize and the only way you're going to recognize it more and more over time is by documenting it. So I think that's a clutch suggestion.
I dig it. Yeah, it doesn't mean that you have to go and fight every single bill that comes your way, but it is helpful to know that, Like, well, if I choose to spend some time on this, I can probably fight this. I think that empowerment is a huge part of what Matt is doing. Like you said, somebody told him, Man, people need to be talking about this. He's out there talking about it. It's a part of why we have the show. But Jelis introduced the beer that you and I enjoyed during this episode. It's a Horns the groooner. This is I think that's how you say it.
But this is the pills, not perfect German, but it'll pass.
Yeah, what were your thoughts on this on this Aldi beer? This is one of the ones I picked up from Aldi again to commiserate the fact that we did not reach our daffy campaign giving goals.
We both lost ones who were both drinking crab beer, not craft beer. I'm gonna call this an average pills and average pills like it wasn't terrible. I've had worse. But I would also never suggest Aldie Beers to anyone ever, even though I would suggest going there for grocery shopping.
It's funny that you said it's not the worst, because I feel like it's pretty close to the worst. Because so on Monday we enjoy enjoyed another European Pills and I was like really surprised at how clean and kind of fresh it was. I feel like this is I don't know, it's something about it tastes old. It tastes like like a new garden hose, like a fresh not in a great way, like it's I don't know, the kind of rubbery elements it's got, like the fresh can of tennis balls kind of smell or aroma to it.
Well, I will say, so you know they have like best buy dating on Kansas. Ye, that's how you just look at it. Well sometimes and some will tell you when it's canned. I just will tell you when it's best to drink it by, and so you have a hard time knowing how old the extra thing is. This one says April six, twenty twenty five, which makes me think they think that this beer is great for a long time. But the truth is beers are really only good for I don't know, eight weeks maybe before they start to decline in quality. So who knows how long these have been sitting on the shelves.
Well, but that being said, like I don't know, I'm not gonna say it was absolutely terrible. I think for a lot of folks out there who like some of those different flavors, who like a nice European pills, there's something something they can pick up at their local Aldi, if you're so lucky to have an amazing, low cost grocery store like Aldi near you.
It's amazing how two of our favorite grocers have some of the worst forays in the craft beer that being Costco and Aldi. Oh my gosh, the beers are trash, and I would love to see them partner with better brewers and make more interesting beers. But you know, they do other great things, so.
You can't have it all right now, all right, that's gonna be it for this episode. You can find show notes up on the website at howtomoney dot com. Buddy, that's going to be it.
Next time, Best friends out, Best Friends Out,
