Terraform: The Doc es Una Chingona

Published Aug 14, 2024, 4:00 AM

Prop talks with education activist and all-around badass Dr. Alma Zaragoza-Petty. We talk about her professional work and her book "Chingona: Owning Your Inner Badass for Healing." 

Chingona: Owning Your Inner Badass for Healing and Justice

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Sulug is like this, Bullduk is like this bullduk is like this all right. Uh.

In the Gods of War Front, man, we got another school bombing where people were sheltering in place, and man, the defense that the Israeli military said was like, yo, they was hiding militants there. We got eleven of them. So it's kind of like, you know, you burn your whole house down, but hey, uh, I know your grandma was in there, but you know, no more termites, Like what a wild defense. They also dropping leaflets again till my hey, y'all gotta y'all gotta go.

We finish. We finished.

Shoot up this next place. It's like Nigga go where peace talks have stalled. The cease fired is just not.

Just not in the cards, man, it's bleak, y'all.

U crane up there scrapping too, Like Ukraine, like look, man, we're going on offense.

They didn't. They just take it back cities. That was Russian cities.

They ten miles into the into the spot, like in the same place that in World War Two where there was like a really bad tank wars broy They they up there like they out here, like like clapping the flamers before they became famous. Cause y'all saying, like it's going down up there. It's crazy that that war is still happening. These people were still at war. Like they got molded a little they got more heart than a little bit. As it's still going down. Yo, the Olympics is done. Shout out all the black people. Shout out the breaking Olympics. I'm so glad that breaking was in there and in a little bit of just maybe maybe they just maybe just don't come across y'alls feed. But you have to remember since like hip hop is my first love and I come from.

Like rapidy rap hip hop, like backpacker.

B boy, underground for elements type lyrical miracle hip hop. So I mean I'm watching his mug and tears obviously in tears of laughter over the Australian Home Girl that like I think she was trying to give us styles she just she just ain't had none. Like I know, the meme is flawless, but that being said, like it's let's not take away from just these these are artists that I've like, I've been following for a while. Man, shoutout Logistics, my Homegirl Benita was was one of the coaches who I met in Australia at a at a at Adulpe hip hop event. Shout out the homies at Crosswords that do the do uprock uh An event out there. Super dope anyway, just really keeping the vibe alive and.

It's just dope to see. You know.

If you're not in that world, then you may not understand how like the judging system works. Like it's like, remember it's a dance so like and that stuff is subjective, you know, and they've never had to be subject to like Olympic rules, like, but there's been world of dance competitions forever, Like if you don't know about like Bee Boy Summit, like freestyle sessions, you know, the rock Steady Anniversary, Like these these people are not like they're professional world elite athletes, world elite dancers that just the rest of the world is just seeing so any complaints like which kind of bothered me, complaints coming from the culture to being like, oh man, y'all sold out. It's like, Nikka, can we have anything like look man like you like if you haven't you ain't been a b Boy Summit and as ten years like you can't talk about like like what did you talk about number one?

And then number two?

I'm like, I'm mad because like it's people like, ain't no black woman and no black people in that. I'm like, nigga, you don't like black people care about battle rap, Like y'all don't be going you're not a part of the scene no more. Like I remember specifically looking around and like hip hop stop and being like it is Mexican and Filipino in here, like y'all like y'all just don't And it's like, and I'm saying this as a black person, I'm like, yeah, like y'all look at me like I'm weird because I like that type stuff.

It's like, oh nah, he on that backpacker lyrical Miracle, you.

Know, And I'm like, okay, Like so then when Lyrical Miracle makes it to the Olympics, don't be mad. Ain't no black y'all left. Y'all left that, y'all don't be a part of it. And it just it is what it is. But anyway, that's just me on my old head right now. But shout out all them b boys, be girls, shout out logistics, you got robbed homegirl. Man, I was just really excited to see that. But apparently they're not gonna keep it up, which sucks, man. But it had been so dope to have b boy have breaking it in twenty twenty eight out here, it lost scandalous.

Anyway.

Ten Walls black people. His last name is Walls, not Waltz. There is no t His name is ten Walls, just anyway, regular regular people pulling receipts about his military stuff he talking about. He making it sound like he was outside when he wasn't, like he was out of war, that he wasn't at It could be but the clip they pulling up is him talking about using weapons of war. It could have been he's like, these are the weapons we were trained on. It could have been like I used these in a war. Maybe he misspoke, maybe he spoke over is. Maybe he just wasn't clear, or maybe he meant to like it could be any of those. Either way, Like you're not hiding. You can't hide out in Minnesota no more.

You have to. You have to learn how to stand on your business and say what you got to say and clear it up.

Yall clear this up, man, which is one of the reasons why I an'll be wanting the rough office. I don't need y'all to dig up stuff with me just talking trash with the homies.

You feel me.

My last fifteen years been recorded because I'm recording guarded. So I was like, look, man, don't be breaking up the receipts.

On't be diggie, you know what I'm saying.

Oh man, anyway, Trump Trump, Trump, really don't like it with somebody else in the spotlight. You know, that's kind of what's happening right now. So he got to like, he got to figure out his attack plan, and there is no shortage of things he could attack Kamala's track record on. But for some reason, he's still stuck on the she not black thing. I don't know how you go to Atlanta and think you could tell a room for black people that that black woman ain't a black woman. Like, good luck, my nigga, Like that is you gotta let that one go. I had somebody in my DM talking about her daddy ain't black either, Like, find me a picture of him. I'm like the Jamaican there's millions of pictures of him. And she was raised by her mom, So yeah, she's gonna have a lot of Indian culture with at home. She ain't black. Well, I don't understand do you understand the diaspora? Like like sometimes I wonder if if Homi think because the Caribbean is in the West Indies that this bad beats he's Indian.

Like anyway, it's like that. Right now is like this.

Welcome to Hood Politics with prop terrorform edition episode. For those who have been here since day one, this is going to be a special treat for you. This guest is going to come with no surprise and probably remind you of why you like the show and then maybe why now you don't like the show because this element is missing.

Ladies and gentlemen.

Again, to catch everybody up, The Hood Politics started off as a section, just a segment in a podcast I did with my lovely wife, my partner, my spouse, my ace, my shooter, doctor Alma Zergosa. So we used to even have t shirts that said refer to her by her prefix, which kind of came from when you was at Chapman University. At least that's where I got it from, because I kept.

Calling you Alma, and I was like, oh.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember telling you the story of who would choose to call me Alma versus doctor.

Yes, yeah, so I was introducer uh so Red Couch Podcast Alumni, Ladies and Gentlemen, terra former for this episode, Dtor Amazara Gosa Petty.

Oh, thank you man. I feel very very welcomed. And also I'm air quoting heart.

That's not air, that's a gesture.

Gesture. Maybe maybe we should I love you the hell No, I'm I'm making a heart with.

My hands on this audio.

On this non visual Yes, okay, now why her and why now? So obviously the concept of the Terrorforming episodes are people outside actually making the world better, doing things as we you know, as the news remains abysmal.

And today I'm recording this the Monday after.

The the most hilarious first debate we've ever had, so the.

Peeling could it be more bleak right now?

But so today, the day that we're recording this is me giggling about that and prepping for the me basically writing a marketing plan for Biden because it BOYD needsl So if I was doing it, this is what I would have done, you know. But I want to take a break again and introduce people doing dope stuff now the amount of things. Obviously I'm a fan because this is you know, the mother of my children, and you know you can't I was like, you can't edit this out because I'm like, it's my episode, and might I add devastatingly attractive woman who has done a lot of things, And it was kind of hard to kind of drop in as to like, what things I want to present to my audience about the ways that you're making the world better because we could pick a million of them. So anyway, so then let me ask you. We'd say, okay, doc of your your professional work and maybe of your private work, but I would say, most of your professional work in what ways are you terrriforming making the world better?

Yeah?

Wow, Well, first, thanks for feeling that I do that, because because I think oftentimes, unless you have a really big stage or just a big following or just people watching you at all times, it can feel like you're you know, it can feel like you're not doing anything to make the world better. And so but yeah, I think I approach making the world better one person at a time. That's kind of how I think about it. I think about, like, what can I do in my capacity to change ideas, beliefs, attitudes, judgments, et cetera. In the interactions that I have with people. And so, you know, I do a few things I teach at USC. I teach a class on equity, and we really kind of dissect what it means to see equity through a theoretical lens. Like if we put on a theoretical lens of equity and look at the world using very different theories, how can we learn from the ways that these like scholars have thought about.

Okay, I'm stopped right there, stop right there, So we talk about So we're gonna say, this is a graduate class, like a C suite.

Yeah, so this is the Yeah, ex this is.

Mid level too, like senior level, executive level professionals in their fields that are like killing it.

So these are folks from.

Around the world, so super successful.

So I've had you know, Yeah, they're already in their fields, they're loving what they do, and they're wanting to learn different ways to kind of you know, create change in their own environments or organizations.

Cool, because that's what I was going to ask, Like, now, now, explain to me what you mean by teaching equity in a theoretical sense, as if I was a kid from Huntington Park, like you you know, I'm saying it because I'm like, there's one thing that I do, like like we I'm gonna let you tell the story later when we talk about the ching on that book. But like like this fool, this Wasla Like she like she's a Chola but is a scholar now, so her code switch game be crazy, She's don't be.

The difference between her and me is like I just know when to turn it on and off.

Like I have to remind her to be like all right, hey, hey, not not edge speech, Like I don't what are you talking about? Okay, So I like that you said, you say it again. It's like these people want to know learn how to create change.

Yeah, so these are folks that are you know, wanting to change their organizations, guide other leaders in their organizations to think about the impact that they're creating. And so what I mean when I said when I say, like, you know, trying on different theoretical like equity lenses is basically learning from foods that have been already you know, doing this kind of work. In my class, it's predominantly led by the works of African American women because the way that me and my.

Co kind of you know.

The person that co teaches this class think about it is, you know, they are one of the populations in the US that have dealt with injustice in various different you know ways and levels that and there is so much to learn from them because this you know, when things were really really dire, they're the ones that were the most oppressed in this country. And so we just think that there's like a lot to learn from these voices, and so we purposefully center the voices of BIPOP people, so black indigenous specifically, like women of color, but people of color in general.

It's super dope to picture a room full of exacts learning from a Mexican woman that's probably younger than them most of the time. Yeah, right from the writings of black women Like I just there's a part of me that just enjoys the idea of that that, like the the role reversal of just the setup alone is already a powership that if you don't know, like like of course, like most of us don't because you don't know what happened behind closed doors. All we know is corporations Capital c is like, well, this is the big evil. You know, I'm reading a book right now that actually heard about from the Daily's Eye guys, so shout out, why can't I think of either of their names? Miles and Jack? You know, that's hilarious. Miles and Jack got mad Boostie's. So it's called The Dawn of Everything by David Graver, and he based on I bring this up because it reminds me of kind of the premise of what you're doing in an indirect way, but like essentially like the the ideas that our it's he said, it started off with a conversation with his with his and his colleague about like how did injustice get in the world? You know, yeah, and then why the hell can we not imagine another way to be right? You know what I'm saying, Like what how did we gets stuck in this? And it's he's like, well, it's kind of because we thought as an as an organizational premise, that there was a moment when injustice didn't exist, and then these institutions came in, and then that's how we got inequalities like institutions, institutions like private property and corporation, and so it's like, so then your your thought would be all right, well, so if you eliminate corporations, and I guess you eliminate injustice. And it's like, well, now, what are you saying? Humans aren't humans? Like you know what I'm saying. Of course that can't be how history went. But the big thing he said was this idea of like the premise of the idea of fixing inequality, if you will, inside of the infrastructure that we're in is essentially you're all it's over before it started, because it's like, well, we're not gonna we're not gonna we're not gonna end capitalism, you know what I'm saying, Like, we're not gonna end corporations. So it almost gives those in power an out by being like, well, the best I can do is kind of clean it up a little bit. I can just you know a little bit. So it's like, but what I think you do inside of this is go, well, know, there is a way to flip the entire premise and I'm going to sit all you wealthy people down and you're going to learn from these black women.

Out of the mouth of.

A latina, Yeah, you know, so, I just like, dude, that's already upside down.

Yeah, And I mean the way that the class is structured is basically what that book is. You know, the level at which that book, I think is entering the conversation, which is like, why can't we think about things differently?

Yeah?

Oh, and in.

My class we explore that exactly why we can't. We can't because our minds have been colonized. Yes, so we are, you know, that is one of the the results of colonization and the way that we're right to battery.

Okay, I was sitting on my battery, but go on.

So when you think about how are we, you know, our brain are, even our thoughts are fragments of that colonization. We need to really enter gay like what we think of knowledge, like, yeah, who creates knowledge? What is knowledge? And then also like your your positionality around that knowledge making, like how you see yourself as either someone who has knowledge and can you know, like take up space with your knowledge or someone who who can't for whatever reason. And you know, there's many reasons historically of who has been allowed to be.

Sort of like these knowledge keepers.

Yes, in our society, in our very western society, we're very very regimented on like who is allowed to be a expert and have knowledge. But in all civilizations we have had knowledge keepers.

Yeah, you know, and even like yeah, to get more to the book and to youse like you're you're right, like he so you're right. He enters the conversation or there's two authors. They entered the conversation like that, and then they're like, well, here, let me show you the last forty years of archaeological evidence. Yeah, like science proof, right, Because he's like, most of these premises that we've started all of our understanding of human history from, we're just thought experiments, not based on any evidence. It's like, y'all don't have no research that shows that this is how it worked. He was like, well, here's what the research shows, you know, which is well, no people have been complicated and have had and we've had egalitarian and we've had power structures, we've had this, we've had that. We've always had a problem with this and your ideas of modern civilization. The people that you think invented it have just told the colonizers that they say invented it are telling you out of their own mouth that they got it from the indigenous populations that we learned how by a different name what a democracy was.

We just called it democracy, but like and then did our own.

And then did our own thing with that, because it's really who knows how they really understood it, you know.

Yeah, And they were just like man traditions totally. They were like we thought we were. They even said, and this is from the interview I remember, he was like, we thought that because we were more technologically advanced. Then we thought that we were more intellectually advanced because we were more technologically.

Advance because we have guns.

Basically, and then and like buildings and such. He's like, well, because in my mind, they're like, we used to live.

We have buildings too, I know, but they were like.

We used to live in tents. Also, we used to follow herds. Also we don't.

Now the herds stay with us, and we live inside structured buildings. So in their brain they're like, we used to be there, Now we're here. Therefore we're smarter than you. And they're going sort of thinking themselves and stead of thinking themselves as like, wow, what what what institutional knowledge did we lose from going into buildings? Right, and in the ways for which that they focused on growing in the concept of civilization, just as a as an institution or an infrastructure rather than building buildings, you know what I'm saying.

So anyway, I'm feeling very not hood right now. I know, right conversation. Should I be upping it up for?

I know I'm trying to reach you. I'm jumping up to where you are.

You feel me okay?

Because I feel like, dang, I'm not doing I'm not doing the right thing here.

No, I'm trying to get to where you are. So that was my issue. I was like, damn, she all the way up here. So anyway, because you started with USC, I thought you was gonna start with Scotland match, you feel okay?

I mean I haven't gotten through all the ways.

That okay. So that's the one way. We already fifteen minutes, say let's go to.

The second way.

So one way is I deal with adult humans who are kind of you know, either want to relearn or think of things differently, and so they come to this class and this program and they're you know, trying to do things in a very different way. And another one of my roles I work full time. I've been working full time for a scholar match, which is what you were referencing just now, and in that work, I focus on supporting first gen low income background students, So folks who are the first in their families to either graduate like high school, college for sure, college that are from under privileged backgrounds, so they we support them through with scholarships and then also with a mentor who basically guides them from the moment they get into college all the way to when they're figuring out like how do I now get like a professional career?

What's that like?

And so, you know, I did that directly for a few years, and now I support some of the advisors that are doing that work. But I very much this has been education has been the way that I feel like I want I've wanted to you know, affect change in the world, and I feel like there's just so much you can do in education in general. And so that's one of the ways that I feel I've been doing it the long.

You know, yeah, that that particular job in ORG. Like I feel like for anybody who's like trying to figure out ways that they can help. Like what I what I loved about when you took that position on was like, this is you using both your personal narrative and all that you've learned from just living and your professional development and education. Because I'm like, obviously, well not obviously Spanish is your first language.

Yeah, you know.

You you are both. It's crazy like you're both. You're both immigrant and Chekana, you know what I'm saying, Like in a in an interesting way, like I know you're not like you don't self identify as a Chicana because, like I know, as matter of fact, I learned very quickly when I started dating you that I was like, Oh, y'all, ain't got odes and lowriders here.

This is.

I was like, oh, y'all like Mexican. Mexican.

So I was like, I grew up with aathos, you know what I'm saying. So I was like, oh, it's a little different. But at the same time, when you did come here, you landed in an area that's like, oh they rioters down there, you know what I'm saying. Like you landed in a threaspoontos, you know what I'm saying. So, so you've had the experience of like this what it means to be first gen child of a textile worker. You feel me and also like we outside running these streets, trying to survive. You know what I'm saying, banging the set, banging the hood. You know what I'm saying, Like understanding both of those worlds and then going on to get a PhDe You feel me is like you're able to communicate in a way to these kids who I know. As for me, even as a black man, if I were to ever walk into an organization and meet somebody as a kid like her, like you, I would be like, Okay, she gets it.

You know what I'm saying.

Even though you may not be a black person, you know what I'm saying, But I know, okay, well, you you're from the struggle. You know, you understand your allegiance to your section, you know, and sometimes feeling like you got to play that down but at the same time, or you got to play down your intelligence to keep your allegiance to your section. But at the same time, it's like you're gota trying to be here forever because you have to say, like I said, I got into school, nigga, I was like, I'm trying.

To I want to be here differently.

I want to be here different See you already knew it.

Yeah, because yeah, and that's, yeah, that's a lot of what my book Chinona Owning your Inner Badass.

Just the third thing for Healing and Justice is about.

It's about my own journey as the first gen low income, you know, working class background person making her way up the kind of like the achievement ladder, if you will, and then realizing like what am I doing this for?

Like?

Am I doing this to just be around all these other people that are like navel gazing and just kind of thinking that they're awesome? Or am I doing this because I want something different from my community? And sometimes it felt at odds, you know, And you know, largely it was at odds because I was at odds within myself, and so I had to go through a lot of just you know, unpacking and just kind of relearning a lot of the ways that I had like really latched onto anger in the way that was unhealthy, and how I thought about moving up the ladder instead of just so instead of doing it through angers, like what would it look like to do it from a place of love, like to want better for people like me, like younger mes like that are thinking about this trajectory and like wanting like a mentor wanting some kind of voice in their life as to like how to get through it.

You know, So that's what you mean by at odds with yourself.

Yeah, for me, I felt like it was a And this is something that I explored my book, is as you grow up in a in sort of like the Ivory Tower, right, Like I spent many years in a master's program and then a PhD program, you start to lose yourself a little bit, and you start to be resentful at the institution and kind of developed this anger against it, like this wanting to change things from like a violent place as opposed to from like a as opposed to from a place that maybe feels more true to you. And I'm not saying that there's like a one way to do it. I'm just saying that the way that the way that I wanted to do it was no longer matching with the way that I felt I was being kind of, you know, activated by by the environment in which I was in. So I talk a lot about mental health, which is why I'm you know, I don't know how much that's used in in your podcast, you know, like how much you talk about that, But we could also talk about this from like a mental health perspective, in that it was just hella depressing. It was like hella depressing to be in a space and be like, why am I here? Like I worked really hard, I'm in this place and for what what is the point of this?

You know?

It was very bleak, very kind of dark place to be in as opposed to seeing a way to like, you know, just I don't know, like changing changing things in a different way.

You know.

I had kind of bought into the like there was this one way that you could do change, and it's through becoming a professor, for example, or becoming whatever, you know, path that you think sometimes you have to follow because of the path you've been on, and then realizing, oh no, there's many ways that you could affect change. And I've been looking at affecting change from this very narrow perspective, but actually there's so many ways.

Did you go in angry or did you become angry when you got there?

Well, I feel like there's a lot of different components as to why I may have been I've got angrier once I'm there. I was there, but I definitely had a lot of unresolved trauma that I didn't really get to really heal from until I was like post my pH d program.

Yeah, yeah, which.

Is also a big topic in my book. And you know, like how do you how do you like, you know, take mental health kind of these dreams and aspirations, social justice ideas and start to figure out kind of what's what you know and what's figuring out kind of like your own calling, so to speak.

The book is called Jingonna.

Chingna, Owning your Inner Badass for Healing and Justice.

Yeah, you can say real quick what jingoona means?

Yeah, so chin gonna yes say bad words here. Yes, So the literal translation of chinoona means like a fucker, like a fucker, and a nicer way that has been adopted of saying chingoona is badass. So it's hey, fucker, but it's in like the worst way possible. Because the origins of the word to China men to fuck. But it was used uh first on the children of indigenous and Spanish uh colonizers to define the children who were born of rape. So they were searching, searching go on as were children of the fuck basically, and that is where like the the word comes from. And this is something that I also explore in the book just you know the origins how it then became something that was used in the Latino community as a badge of honor for men, like to go on was like you know, you're bad as you're dope, you know, or yeah or not just fucking but just you're just dope, you know. But to be a woman and men like, oh man, you're like too loud, causing too much attention kind of you know, like this idea of masa which means you know, women are better to be seen than heard, which you know is adopted for children as well, and course and so like in in various cultures, and so it's it's just a way to basically keep the patriarchy and kind of misogynistic kind of values of life in the chicanel or in the Latino community. Uh, this way that this word was used, but over the years it has been kind of co opted by latinas in in kind of an empowering kind of way to be like, yeah, China, that's what I am, you know.

And that's the yeah. That was my entrance to the word. I had no idea of its history. I've always thought it was like like the power term for Mexic you ain't read in my book. Just know I'm saying my entrance to it. I know now because of your books.

I'm joking.

No, but like yeah, like I had until until you schooled me, I had no idea of its history. I always thought that, yeah, that was just the phrase for like, no, it's Mexican girl, you know what I'm saying.

Like, so one of the things that I also realized, it's very general. And also depending on which Latino or like Spanish speaking kind of background you come, it's very vulgar too.

It could be considered very vulgar. And so.

When I like posted about your book, like you know, it's a cuss word. Yes, you can read you read.

Part of why I didn't want to censor that was because, you know, often I feel like people from working class backgrounds and nur slang gets policed, like you know, the way that you speak, and you know, even using the worst you go now, which was actually a term that I was called as a child often, you know, And that's part of why I wanted to explore that.

How you feel about the usage of nigga.

I think that you know, whoever chooses to use it, that are of black or African American descent, they are in their right conversation conversations have and black carts to revoke or give back as y'all want. But I do not personally feel that any no black persons should get a.

Pass, even even even you as married in No, No, I I agree.

That's that's just my personal politics around that, the word of you know. And I also I also feel like most of black folks that I am friends with close to don't use the term other than me, other than you, So it's really interesting that that's kind of who I.

Feel you no but like you.

And I'm saying even this is completely off top, well no, it's it's tied into this concept.

Of to me.

But like I think of.

Your a lot of times when I try to describe you to other people because I'm like, it seems like it doesn't paint the whole picture if I say my wife are like, you know, my wife's U, you know, Mexican American, because I'm like, you're mostly indigenous, and then when and then your granddaddy is black, like you know, So I'm like and knowing me knowing black history being like, well, y'all region was a slave trade port. It's a lot of black people over there, you know. And it's funny when I run into people who are you know, Afro, Latino or Caribbean. And my my anecdotal thing is when people have to explain how they're black, I'm like, you're it's over before it started, Like you you shouldn't have to explain this to me. So I'm like, as their justification for saying the word niggad, it's like, what are you talking about? Like you see how dark this is, you see this nose this is, And I'm like, bro, you know how I don't have to explain to you that.

I'm black and you feel like you do.

So the moment you to me, that's a mark to me where I'm just like or I grew up like that, this is how we talk.

And I'm like, okay, eight like you said, like.

I am done policing people, Like that's just my stage of mental health where I'm like, I don't need to police nobody over.

There, you know what I'm saying.

But at the same time, but if you ask me, you know, I feel like if you got to explain your blackness, that that should already you should be able to answer your.

Own questions, you know what I'm saying, So, like, who are trying to convince?

You're trying to convince here, you know what I mean. So so I say that as you who could legitimately say that you're Afro Mexican, Yeah, you're like the hell I am right, Well.

I feel like I don't present an Mehicana, So it's not something that I would claim.

You know, because it's not fair, right, And because in.

My family, which is like a whole other like wrinkle to this, is that I was actually even though I I'm very much like indigenous kind of looking, I'm very much the I was the wed in my family, which means like.

The lightest one.

Whole like experience was always hearing how beautiful I was because I was the lightest one, which is horrible, which is horrible because I'm literally it was done in front of cousins who were darker, you know, and it was just like it was like this weird way that I really early on learned like colorism within like the our not only our family, but the Latino community. Like you know, we obviously have a very different race relationship than in the US because we didn't have like slavery as an institution the way that it was in the US, where you know, for example, like growing up, yeah, my grandfather being Afro Mexicano, it was never a thing that we like would consciously kind of talk about because to us, Mexicanos were just of different colors. We just came We're very very heterogeneous in that way where you could have a really light skinned cousin and a really really really dark skinned like cousin in the same family because of just genetics and like who ended up with who, and because you know, it's just and it was never like a thing because it wasn't a legal thing in.

Our in Mexico legal distinction right that.

I was ever made. So it's I'm not saying that there isn't racism. I'm just saying that it was super covert, very very covert, UH and it came out in ways like colorism. And you know, I when I grew up, Once I grew up and I learned a little more history of where my family comes from on my maternal side, I realized that the reason why there's a lot of af Mehicanos in this specific in this UH specific part of Guerrero was because which is you know, near the Costa Chica is because that is where those are the cliffs and the part of the ocean where a lot of the African folks that were brought over through the Transatlantic slave trade would basically run away and just kind of hide out by the cliffs on the rocks on this in this part of Mexico. Yeah, and then when and then kind of assumed dead or assumes kind of missing, like they've died or something along the way on the path. But that's literally to this day, Cosa Chika has some of the like the largest after Mexicano population in Mexico, and that is where my grandfather was from. So yeah, of course he probably you know, he definitely has like afro. Yeah, he's like yeah, definitely after a Mehicano. But he ended up marrying someone as you know, who is like look like a white lady.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's just very very light. And so then their daughters are you know, they're all shades and then depending on who they married.

Yeah, that's so funny, but like, yeah, that that history, you know, like in for those who know my music on the she has made an earth song when I say Ivory Coast to Chica. I'm making a play of words of like the Ivory Coast in coast of Chica. So that's that's what I was talking about, you Ivory Coast to Chica. You know which I I just the obviously y'all again familiar with my stuff. The black and brown and indigenous experience is very important to me, part of like my mission and you know, knowing that my work is bigger than me, like that unity among the black and brown communities, and obviously growing up at LA, like yeah, the the the power broker ing that has been and can continue to be accomplished if at the policy level and the street level when there's unity has been It's been amazing in Los Angeles, you know what I'm saying, When we finally get sure as a community, and I think your your work at scholar Match, I feel like is an example of that because we we also we too be like the first people in our families to go to college.

You know what I'm saying.

In my personal family, both both of my parents went back to school. My dad went and you know, after going to Vietnam. You know what I'm saying, My mom went when I was in high school. She went back and got her degree, you know what I'm saying. But like, but me being like out of high school going into college, you know, we didn't. I didn't know you can get a fee waiver on an application, you.

Know what I'm saying, Like I thought I had.

I was about to pay fifty dollars for you to tell me I can't go, Like no, I'm good, I'm not. I'm a if I have to pay to apply and then pay to go, y'all tripping, you know what I'm saying, Like what you know, we didn't know? You know what I'm saying.

Yeah, And now, like it's funny that you mentioned that because even now there were realizing in this kind of research area of access college access that even the second generation is still kind of lost because if you're just if you're first gen and you're growing and you're raising kids, which is who we are right as people, we just got out of that, Like we still trying to get our sort of like just learn, like get situated financially stable enough in a way that maybe you know, our parents didn't have to they didn't have the opportunity for but it's still not in a very you know, in a place where you're like, oh, yeah, this is an expectation, this is how you're gonna go, this is how we're going to pay, Like it's an effort to want to give this to our children as well, you know.

And so second generation.

You know folks also struggle through a lot of like having to learn and like be guided in that process.

Which reminds me of a question now that like from a policy level, like with the new like laws around mentioning race and affirmative action and test scores and SATs and all that's good stuff. Like I listened to this deep dive new story about people trying to write their entrance essays.

But and how.

You you're not allowed to consider my color, you know, my race in America. But but if I'm going to talk about myself, I don't know, there's no and I don't know how else to explain this except for it's it's got to be a product of privilege to be able to tell your story and not have to include your experience as being racialized in America. It's so there's no part of my life that's not part of that, you know what I'm saying. So I'm like, I don't know, how how do I write about myself? Well, so as sometimes I know.

And like personal essays, you can still write about anything. Word, there's no the it's affirmative action is more about like from a institutional perspective, they can't like like select or hand pick certain populations for acceptance or special review because of their their documented like check off the box.

So it's not so much I can't consider your race like as you're reading these essays.

No, the essays are completely different, which is interesting because that's why the folks that work in this area we have always used this as a vehicle when affirmative action was here, wasn't here?

Was here again? Isn't here again?

We always going to talk about this because this is the fact that your first gen the fact that you're like from an underprivileged background, like it affects your educational journey itself, right, and so like, how are you not going to talk about who you are in this personal state? So it absolutely always gets talked about, and readers, because I've been a reader for universities to like look at we aren't told not to like basically dismiss that.

Yeah, but I thought that that was the new law, like this new.

Like with the Affirmative actsporting.

Yeah, no, that has more to do with the way that institutions cannot Basically, it's illegal for them to base off of a checkbox category that was checked off to give special consideration for those students or give or allow.

Certain spots for those students.

So instead it's like and now they're in there with everybody else, and what they talk about is in part of the law, you could still talk about who you are, because just like those like folks who come from those backgrounds talk about that, we have students who talk about, for example, like being a prodigy of like you know whatever sport or like you know whatever other like kind of expensive instrument kind of thing that they had to do, which you know, to me as a reader, I'm thinking privilege.

This person has a lot of privilege.

But look, they also have used that privilege in a way where they are now like a freaking acclaimed somebody, which is like not that you need to be acclaimed for to gain admission, but like it's also a way that I think privilege can also like.

Gets read into.

Like these documents, Yeah, you still get to see who they are. As people you know, and then and it's super hard because that's just one of the factors in considering someone for admission, Like you look at their scores, their grades, a lot of factors.

You know.

Somebody, somebody was making the argument that like removing the test score the SAT thing is actually going to hurt a community as of color and.

In a way that.

If they're if their GPAs were high enough to be considered right, but not as high as you know, student a that who also came from privilege but had personal tutors and did all these different things to make sure that their grades were there.

Right.

But this person who came from a lower performing school and struggled, and you know what I'm saying, and against all odds, still hit that four point o line, doesn't have this other thing of these test scores that we all know are biased, and they still scored this you know what I'm saying. So you weigh both of those things together and say right now, So basically it's like you're removing this way of proving you that you've reached this level against all odds.

I don't know, Yeah, I could see the argument.

I think it's gonna be it's definitely gonna not benefit like a very few select group of students, you know, like I could see how that's going to impact them. But I think overall these tests and the ways that they were developed and why they were developed, you know, like the history of these tests like has shown how discriminatory.

They actually are is to be out.

Yeah, yeah, like they it was like the history of it was literally eugenics.

This is the history of these tests.

And yeah, you know, we've evolved and we've changed them and made them different, but at the core of them, it is still very privileged people.

Well that set the center.

So then how do you bringing it back to you? How do you.

Help these young these young homies, because I I've watched young Latina women, black women, just women period sliding your d MS in a way that.

Is like you are.

This picture of the possibility to them and they just so I'm just I just wonder, like, given all these things that you know personally, and then how you work with these people professionally, what in what ways do you feel like you're able to equip them to work through a system that at all these different angles are working against them. And then so I'm like, and then so answer that, and then secondly like why do you think why do you think these young women are drawn to you in the way that they are?

Yeah, I mean I think they're drawn to me because in our kind of more mainstream kind of you know, social and representative kind of or non representative kind of milieu of like entertainment, we don't see a lot of representation of Latinas being educated to this level like PhD, master's level. And so when you find that one or two or three like online, you're just like, oh my gosh, like this this person has figured it out.

How do they do that?

Live and talk to them? And when I think that, the more there is and also I mean to be to also use just actual hard facts like Latina women are the unicorns in higher academia. So we are the most underrepresented faculty members across universities in the US. It's like, I think the last time I looked, it was like two to four percent of like people universal fans and yeah, yeah, university professors are Latinas. And so I mean, even if you just do like a random poll of people like who has had a Latina professor, it would be real bleak because most people have.

Not had a Latin professor.

I'm going through my I never I mean when.

I was growing up, I never had Latino professors.

I was like one and it was like my credentialing program one. Yeah, and I'm like that's six years of school, you know, yeah, yeah, one.

So one, there's that there's the fact that like it's just hard to find a mentor because there aren't a lot of us. And so then when people are like, oh my gosh, you went through it, like, you know, even if it's a different path, right, like maybe they're thinking of a different kind of trajectory in terms of like the education that they want to have, it's still like, well, someone did it, so like you know, like wanting to reach out to someone that has gone through it.

And then the other question was.

About how do you, like, given all these things that we say, like oh, yeah, like how are you like equipping young first gen kids or people reaching out? Like what are you telling them as ways to like navigate this world?

Yeah, I mean it's it's really complicated, and I mean I could I could definitely go into like some of the problematic ways that even amazing organizations like the one that I work with, kind of end up skimming the crop the krim of the cop because it's like the ones.

That are already doing so else by the odds.

And there's a lot of research that shows like, Okay, are those the people that really need our help?

Like are they going to actually just do it anyway?

You know, like how can we use like how can we really test whether this program is what helped them get there versus their own and.

Anyway?

Yeah, So there's that.

There's always that like kind of thing that's always lingering in the work that I do and the research that gets done in this area, because it's really hard to powers out like this was the effect of this program or this kind of mentorship as opposed to like this person was going to fulfill this destiny kind of thing.

You know. Like, so there's that. So I'm gonna just put that aside.

But when we don't think about that and we just think about, like, what has helped this population being successful is and this is some of the research that I did when I was in my PhD studies was that having people like mentors, teachers, literally anybody in your like community that believes that you can do this and that is willing to support, help inspire, encourage you in any way is like the biggest predictor for Latino women specifically. So I don't know, you know, there's obviously other research with men. Men are I don't know if you know this, I think you do, Like they're actually underrepresented, like black, black, and Latino men are the most underrepresented. Yeah, and so there's research that focuses on that population, right, which talks a lot about mentors as well.

But so that's that's.

Already an issue because if you if eighty I think the latest numbers is like eighty percent of the teaching force is white women.

Like, how do we help all dangerous minds Michelle fiv.

How do you help them see the value of some of these students within a classroom and the abilities that the potential for them.

Right.

So, so anyway, so there's like research that shows like if you literally never hear anyone telling you that you can do this, it's sad, You're not gonna believe you can do this, you know, And then and it changes so much if you have at least with that one person. And so from like a personal perspective, like I feel like if you're a teacher or have that kind of a like power, like like realizing and acknowledging that power is so crucial because often they feel very powerless. It's just not a highly valued profession in our in our world. So one there's that. And then from the perspective of like a program like a non GM like a you know gym uh in geo and geo thank you coming in to like working with this community. There's a lot that shows that, you know, sometimes just having that gap between what the university is offering in terms of internship, in terms of like scholarships and like fund and and what your family can actually afford to give you, like filling in that gap of like financial targeted money, like for things that you don't even know you how to pay, like orientation, Oh I got to pay now to like get oriented in your college.

Fan that I just paid too. I was like, what am I paying for them?

Yeah? There's all these little Yeah, I was.

Become highly prohibitive for people who like don't come. That means basically like not paying half of their like groceries that week or something. You know, like these are real decisions being made.

When when I tell you when they handed me to syllabus and was like, Okay, go buy this.

You gotta go buy books. I was like, what, Like that's not inclan intuition. No, it's not what they.

Like, I have to take this class and I gotta buy the book. Like I was like dumbfounded, like what are y'all talking about? And then they were like, I'm like honestly, honestly the first class first day when he was like, it's at the bookstore. There's also you could get a used coffee. There's also some off campus bookstores. You know, there's this since you can if you can find it here, you can find it. I was literally sitting in that class so confused. I was like what is he talking about? Like I didn't understand what they was saying. I was looking around at everybody being like and I had to surmise it. I'm telling you I'm already. I'm already, except I'm in the class and I'm putting it together like, oh I I gotta buy it.

Dang, that's that. Are you trying to tell our students ahead of time?

That's all trying to say stuff like that.

That they're gonna have to buy the books.

You know, there's a lot of costs that you don't think about, like transportation.

I was, you're gonna get hungry, dude. I figured that stuff I figured out. I was like, I know this. I'm an art major.

I know, like I'm gonna have to buy the paint like I understood stuff like that. But I was like, but just the academic class, like I gotta buy them.

I understood.

I had to, especially when you come from public school where all the books.

Are drawing on dis all drawn in the book.

I'm thinking kinds of graffitian.

I'm thinking that, like I'm about to know who had my book before me.

Where you should have done has gone to a private school, then you would have known you've always had to pay for books.

I was like, what is they?

What are you talking about? Like, I like you unlocked a memory. I was honestly like, what is she talking about?

Like yeah, So anyway, so there's like the financial stuff, then there's like the social emotional stuff, so like getting them just mentally ready for like the difference that it's going to be because a lot of our students come from under resourced schools too, and so they think this is the expectation that's going to happen at this college and it's not it's gonna there's gonna be a very like vast difference, and like how do you like properly study? How do you know, building up those skills is another thing, and then building up the like kind of emotional maturity of like how do you know you're just being homesick, Like it's not that you want to like quit everything. You just missed your mom, So go home, you know, like like reconnect and then come back refuel yourself to keep going.

You're telling little homies this.

Yeah, this is what we focus on.

So we focus on like the social, emotional, the financial, and the academic.

Dude, I like the last Terrorform episode we had was with Zekiah. I had expectations and I just kind of talked to me like, yeah, how my experience of like going from you know, my neighborhood of origin to this high school in the suburbs that was much more resourced, but feeling.

Like, like I said, I know what I lost.

What I lost was that black and brown community was a world around me that looked familiar. That like you said, that was like where I had that camaraderie, you know what I'm saying.

So I think in some senses.

By the time I got to college, I was prepared to be a fish out of water, you know what I'm saying, because my high school felt like a fish out of water, you know, and how to like just shut up and figure out what I needed, you know what I mean.

But what that taught me was.

I can't trust the institution, like because y'all don't understand me. So like in my high school I had the first time I saw our college counselor, our counselor at our school was at graduation. That's first time I saw her. I was like, I never went to an office, I never checked. I was like, you don't you don't understand me. You don't know what I want? Like this not like our own ownt We have different goals, you know what I'm saying.

And also to be kind of fairter than that, you know, counselors, that's a whole other profession that is undervaluable.

It's very under I.

Have like three hundred students per one.

I believe it.

They have to, you know, it's so hard to really.

Get I believe it for sure. But like, yeah, I say this not as a slight to her, yeahs to me. I was like, I don't I don't trust this place. Yeah, you guys don't have my best interest in mine. There were one or two teachers that I was connected with forever shoutow, mister Jeffries, Miss Crone and mister Pilicky like these people that you know. Miss ms Gutera is my ap arts teacher, like who who came in and were very specific about as as educators. Like yeah, okay, so that was but that was the enterprise. I learned to trust them. You feel me, But I felt like I was. I was on my own.

So when I got to college, it kind of felt the same way.

And then but like any people co to you, just I immediately found the black people.

I was like, well, let me find the black people, you know what I'm saying.

So once you find the black people, it was that stopped the homesick thing for me.

I was like, okay, yeah, you created your own family.

You create your own family. I'm like, y'all understand it. And since we went to school in Orange County, a lot of us were from la you know what I'm saying, So like we had a lot of like home experiences that were very simil So we found each other la like.

Even even like I E.

SGV like, so we had an experience that was so similar to each other that we were just kicking in the quad. And and to me, that reminded me of high school also because that's what happened. I found the black people in high school, you said, and like and you you you created your own community. But this was again, this was us blindly to blind like, we know what the hell we was doing?

You feel me?

Yeah, I mean that's That's also something else that we often see with our student population is a lot of them, especially those going to predominantly white institutions, they end up joining.

Yeah, they end up joining like.

Affinity groups like that because it's what helps them feel like, oh, okay, I belong here, it's okay that you know school.

Yeah, I wasn't gonna join no, fred, I'll say you that I didn't know. I thought all that I need to wrap this up because I want to end with the keep on a book. But I thought all frats were like black black fraternities. So I didn't realize I didn't really like, like I said, my only unders standing was like school Days was like Spike Lee Movies was like a different world, you know what I'm saying, Like.

Cosby, she didn't want to join win.

No, I wanted to join one of those. But when I went to the school, they was all so. I remember I walked up to one of the fraternities. I was like, Hey, tell me about y'all step team. That white boy looked at me like what. I was like, step Team? He was like, what are you talking about?

And I was like, you know, did know?

I was like I walked away like weirdo, you know. And then I'm teasing like some of the other black people. I was like, this fool's scatting on the step team was He was like, yeah, that's that's the community at homies.

He was like that's because they white. And I was like what.

He was like, you're talking to me, No, those are black fraternities. Those are only there's only a handful of black fraternities. And I was like I felt I was like, oh, every fraternity He like, oh, like my little Wakanda. I thought they was all.

For people that don't know what fraternities are, their gangs and essentially.

And my dad, you know, his black panther self, was like, oh why I would celebrate Greek culture. He was like, black man got Greek letters on his chest. And I was like, all right, dad, I was like, what about black fraternities. I don't understand why black man would celebrate, you know.

Anyway, So he was like, don't eternity? All right? Now I'm looking back like, damn my hell, you know what I'm saying.

But yeah, I mean there's like Latina for like sororities. Now some of my students are in those, and I think it's dope. I think it's dope that they find.

Oh I found all right, all right, I definitely found what it is. Boy.

Anyway, No, so let me end with the book king going on, because I feel like that's the most tangible thing at least for the listeners to pick up, yeah, and to be like, Okay, this is the good you're putting in the world.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I think I often hear from folks who maybe are not Latinas themselves, but that like are mentoring folks that are or just kind of no folks are. I've had some folks reach out and be like, dude, it was so cool to like give this to my Latina student, because you know, I'm black and I don't really like we obviously she like found me, but like I, you know, we don't share that cultural kind of Yeah, so it's it's really cool. But yeah, so Chinona owning your inner vedask for healing injustice. It's it's it's a memoir and it's also a bit of visionary kind of fiction on what the world could look like if we healed, Like if you know, I started out by saying that to me, a lot of the work in changing the world starts in the very like personal. I definitely come from a school of like just the personal as political. If you change, you know, you create change, and that change gets you know, kind of multiplied across your you know, lifetime and and on to other people. And I feel like that's the way that I've been able to affect change. And so this book kind of chronicles lot of like my own journey into this way of thinking. And then also, you know, it's it's not a how to book, Like I was very intentional and like not wanting to write a book on.

Like, oh, here's how you like succeed and do the things.

It's more of like journeying with you you know, like how you know this is how I this was my journey. What are some things that in your own journey that you could be thinking about? So I do have some questions in there. Honestly there were questions that I was just asking myself as I was writing this, but that I feel like have been really helpful for folks. Yeah, and then also just a lot on mental health because I, you know, I'm someone who struggles with anxiety and depression and so it's something that has always been, you know, a way that I've had to like learn how to cope and heal and yeah, you know, just all of that.

So it's it's.

Something that's very personal but also tries to to create like this way of thinking about jingoonas as this universal concept of like how do how do you become you know, who you want to be despite these labels that get placed on you, Like how do you still like you know, use them for your advantage, reclaim them and then kind of fulfill your own kind of goals?

Beautiful?

Yep?

How can people follow your work? You are?

You're the most anti social media person? Yes, so like, don't take a personal response to you.

I actually respond to all messages that are not marketing, not marketing or trying to make me sell some kind of like something normal.

TOI level marketing.

But if it's like you know, messages about like the book or just like about wanting to meet I actually are.

You'd be surprised. Not a lot of people get to that level.

I think some people feel more comfortable just liking somebody's picture than actually sending a message. So I don't actually get a lot of messages. Or maybe it's because I just don't be on social media, like on social media like that.

Yeah, you get into, you get in to send us, send us reels like just listen to her on there anyway, So can you drop that ad mentioned then?

Yeah, so it's at the doc ZP th h E d O c ZP.

Thank you for doing this.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Fun to finally be on your very fancy show.

You dumped me, but the podcast dump But.

Look at you went on and you have a better relationship, you grew as a person.

Oh lord, all right, I'm hitting stop now. Thank you very much, y'all. We'll be back next week, as you know. All right, now, don't you hit stop on this pod. You better listen to these credits. I need you to finish this thing so I can get the download numbers.

Okay, so don't stop it yet, but listen.

This was recorded in East Lost Boyle Heights by your boy Propaganda. Tap in with me at prop hip hop dot com. If you're in the Coldbrew coffee we got terraform Coldbrew. You can go there dot com and use promo code hood get twenty percent off.

Get yourself some coffee.

This was mixed, edited and mastered by your boy Matt Alsowski killing the Beast softly. Check out his website Matdowsowski dot com.

I'm a speller for you because I know M.

A T T O S O W s ki dot com Matthowsowski dot com. He got more music and stuff like that on there, so gonna check out The heat. Politics is a member of cool Zone Media, Executive produced by Sophie Lichterman, part of the iHeartMedia podcast network. Your theme music and scoring is also by the one and overly Matthouselowski. Still killing the beats softly, So listen, don't let nobody lie to you. If you understand urban living, you understand politics. These people is not smarter than you. We'll see y'all next week.

Hood Politics with Prop

From the makers of the Red Couch pod: The political landscape can be confusing, but it doesn't have  
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