Robert S. McNamara, who was Secretary of Defense during JFK and LBJ’s administrations, and one of the chief architects of the Vietnam war, made a shocking confession in his 1995 memoir. He said “We were wrong, terribly wrong.” McNamara believed this as early as 1965, that the Vietnam War was unwinnable. Yet, instead of urging U.S. forces to exit, he continued to preside over the war as President Lyndon B. Johnson’s principal wartime advisor. It would be eight more years until the United States officially withdrew from Vietnam. By then, 58,000 Americans and millions of Vietnamese had lost their lives. 
 
Why did McNamara fight so hard to escalate a war that he’d soon realize was beyond winning? Why was he so loyal to LBJ, whom he’d later describe as “crude, mean, vindictive, scheming, and untruthful”? While these questions are personal, the answers are vital to our understanding of the Vietnam War and American foreign policy at large. 

Today’s guest is Philip Taubman, author of “McNamara Wat War: A New History.” We look at McNamara’s early life and how he epitomized the 20th-century technocratic 'whiz kid' through his Harvard-honed data analysis skills, which he applied to optimize the firebombing of Tokyo during WWII and later revolutionized Ford Motor Company as president, using statistical efficiency to drive innovation. His technocratic approach shaped U.S. strategy during the Cuban Missile Crisis and Vietnam War, where he relied on data-driven decision-making, though with mixed results, notably escalating Vietnam based on flawed metrics like body counts.

We look at how ultimately, McNamara’s war was not only in Vietnam. He was also at war with himself—riven by melancholy, guilt, zealous loyalty, and a profound inability to admit his flawed thinking about Vietnam before it was too late.

Robert S. McNamara, who was Secretary of Defense during JFK and LBJ&rsquo;s administrations, and one of the chief architects of the Vietnam war, made a shocking confession in his 1995 memoir. He said &ldquo;We were wrong, terribly wrong.&rdquo; McNamara believed this as early as 1965, that the Vietnam War was unwinnable. Yet, instead of urging U.S. forces to exit, he continued to preside over the war as President Lyndon B. Johnson&rsquo;s principal wartime advisor. It would be eight more years until the United States officially withdrew from Vietnam. By then, 58,000 Americans and millions of Vietnamese had lost their lives.&nbsp; &nbsp; Why did McNamara fight so hard to escalate a war that he&rsquo;d soon realize was beyond winning? Why was he so loyal to LBJ, whom he&rsquo;d later describe as &ldquo;crude, mean, vindictive, scheming, and untruthful&rdquo;? While these questions are personal, the answers are vital to our understanding of the Vietnam War and American foreign policy at large.&nbsp;
Today&rsquo;s guest is Philip Taubman, author of &ldquo;McNamara Wat War: A New History.&rdquo; We look at McNamara&rsquo;s early life and how he epitomized the 20th-century technocratic 'whiz kid' through his Harvard-honed data analysis skills, which he applied to optimize the firebombing of Tokyo during WWII and later revolutionized Ford Motor Company as president, using statistical efficiency to drive innovation. His technocratic approach shaped U.S. strategy during the Cuban Missile Crisis and Vietnam War, where he relied on data-driven decision-making, though with mixed results, notably escalating Vietnam based on flawed metrics like body counts.
We look at how ultimately, McNamara&rsquo;s war was not only in Vietnam. He was also at war with himself&mdash;riven by melancholy, guilt, zealous loyalty, and a profound inability to admit his flawed thinking about Vietnam before it was too late.

For history lovers who listen to podcasts, History Unplugged is the most comprehensive show of its kind. It's the only show that dedicates episodes to both interviewing experts and answering questions from its audience. First, it features a call-in show where you can ask our resident historian (Scott Rank, PhD) absolutely anything (What was it like to be a Turkish sultan with four wives and twelve concubines? If you were sent back in time, how would you kill Hitler?). Second, it features long-form interviews with best-selling authors who have written about everything. Topics include gruff World War II generals who flew with airmen on bombing raids, a war horse who gained the rank of sergeant, and presidents who gave their best speeches while drunk.

A show about American history, world history, World Wars 1 & 2, the Civil War, and much more.

History Unplugged Podcast

For history lovers who listen to podcasts, History Unplugged is the most comprehensive show of its kind. It's the only show that dedicates episodes to both interviewing experts and answering questions from its audience. First, it features a call-in show where you can ask our resident historian (Scott Rank, PhD) absolutely anything (What was it like to be a Turkish sultan with four wives and twelve concubines? If you were sent back in time, how would you kill Hitler?). Second, it features long-form interviews with best-selling authors who have written about everything. Topics include gruff World War II generals who flew with airmen on bombing raids, a war horse who gained the rank of sergeant, and presidents who gave their best speeches while drunk.

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