Kristen Wiig and Dick Cavett

Published Nov 11, 2013, 5:00 AM

Kristen was in college when an Acting 101 class prompted a move to L.A. She had little experience, but a tremendous gift for improv, and she soon found herself in a room auditioning for SNL. Hundreds of personas later, Wiig is regarded by SNL creator Lorne Michaels as one of the three or four greatest SNL talents ever. Kristen’s expertise translated well to film, and she eventually won an Oscar nomination for her Bridesmaids screenplay. She joins Alec to talk about the arc of her career and the steps she hopes to take next.

Dick Cavett shares some of his memories with Alec: meeting Orson Welles in the lobby of the Plaza; talking with Marlon Brando by phone—“I was told he would [call] at a certain time and we talked with the sun about 15 degrees above the horizon until well after the moon had risen;” and interviewing Laurence Olivier in the Wyndham Hotel when Cavett says, he was feeling so depressed “I just want[ed] to go home and get under the rug.” Dick Cavett is the master of talk, a television legend; in this conversation, he shows Alec why his career has spanned nearly five decades.

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This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing. For some people, destiny arrives early, hands them a map, and clears a path toward the future. For others, destiny shows up later while they're still kicking around in the woods. My guests today, Dick Cavin and Kristen wigg took two very different journeys, but both ended up right where they were meant to be. As a little boy, Dick Cavitt loved to talk. A month ago on this stable and I was going through old envelopes of stuff, I found three report cards. Dick Miss learned to control his talking is on two of them. Dick Miss learned to let others talk occasionally. One of the wittier ones UH put down. And when his family finally got a television, he fell in love with that too. It was only a matter of time before Cavin would combine the two with a talk show that generated some of the medium's greatest moments. That come didn't kiss me then when you came out? If I'm so well, let's see this is the third show. By the fifth show, we'll go to another hell of a kiss. I come out. But let's say you happened to meet my first guest, Kristen Wigg when she was in college. If you brought up the idea of her acting, let alone being on Saturday Night Live, she'd probably stare at you blankly. Yet Lauren Michaels has called Wig one of the best performers in SNL history. She has changed the conversation about women in comedy. So it's hard to believe Whigg's career almost didn't happen. I was an art major. It wasn't really for me. I was kind of in my I hate the word party phase. I hate that word. I was having fun, I guess at that time, and I I was taking it easy. And then I didn't really know what I was having, Like what am I going to do with my life? You're in your ring ding ding peg. I've never used that term, but I'm going to And then I went back to Rochester because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. And then I just started like taking classes at the local community college. And then I was like, I want to travel art art classes and there's no performance element of you doing and more people saying to you, God, you're funny. I don't think people wake up when they're twenty three. You know what, I never really did plays. I mean, if I had to give a speech and class, I would try anything to get out of it. I hated talking in front of people. I still actually don't really like doing that. If I myself and it's a group of people, it still makes me nervous. Anyway, after I was back in Rochester, I did a Knoll semester. Do you know what that is? It's like outward bound, where you like, live outside and learned. Is it like meaningful or is it ring ding ding? No, it's meaningful. People are searching. Oh yes, of course for three months searching. There was a little bit of that. So it's it's cool to what knowles National Outdoor Leadership School. You're laughing in me, it's like outward found leadership. Yeah. It was like you learn how to live outside and like you and if you get lost in the woods, like I wouldn't know what to do. And if I was with you, I would bring up this conversation and say you're on your own get lost. Would be in the hotel watching Bride's Maid pay per view. Anyway, long story short. After that, went back to Rochester, and then applied to the University of Arizona. Went there for a year. Why there, Um it was a boyfriend thing, okay, and then you're pretty normal kid up until now. Pretty normal. Yeah, And then then I took an acting class. Where at University of Arizona, my major was studio art and you could pick three different types of art for that major, and it was like sculpture, painting, and I just tried this class called performance Art, which was very like writing poems and doing kind of yes, like very weird light changes and things like that. It was literally acting one on one that was class one class, and I was terrified to take it because I, like I said, I hate standing up in front of people and performing. But something about this class we learned about improv and my teacher was really supportive, and at the end of the class he was just like, have you ever considered doing this? And I was like, oh, yeah, right, it was my teacher. Yeah. I just kept thinking about it, and I wasn't really happy there. I didn't really like the art program wasn't really for me. I don't want to say I had an epiphany, but I did have one of those moments where I was like looking at myself in the mirror, and I was like, what are you doing? What do you want to do? If you could do anything in this world, what would it be? And I was like, I want to move to l A and try to be an actor, which was crazy, but I didn't stop myself. I packed my car like the next day, and my roommate at the time in Arizona lived in really hills and she said I could come stay with her. Started flowing in that direction. Yeah. I didn't tell my parents that I was leaving Arizona, and I just kept saying, God, it's really hot here. There's so much sand everywhere, exactly West Hollywood, Arizona. UM. And when you got there, how quickly did you get into the groundlings thing? Not quickly because I moved there and I was like, I need to get don't you kind you were kind of creeping up on this show. I got there and I was like, what is it? Was a piv. I got there and I was like, what am I doing? Because l A is a city of actors and performers and writers and filmmakers for the most part, I mean, that's where they all go. And I had zero experience. I wasn't you know, nineteen and I just got a job and wasn't really doing anything doing one I worked at anthropology anthropology, yeah, and I did like, were you security? I wasn't security, No, but I did a lot of visual stuff because of my art background and to help with like the you know, displays and stuff. But when you say you weren't sure what you were doing, there's something about you in the time I've known you and been around you where you're still kind of that way. Oh yeah, I don't think I'm ever going to figure it out. I don't know, do you ever? I don't know. I mean, I think that there's two types of people in the business that I've met. That is the ones that have that very Mickey Rooney kind of I'm going to be in show business, you know, since they're kids and they just wanted to eat, sleep, and drink it. Then there's people who are, if not accidental, there's certainly have a sense that they're visiting I'll do this for now, you know. Yeah, I love performing, but there's such a big part of me that's like, don't look at me, do you know what I mean? It's hard to find that balance. I think also like people assume if you're an actor that you just like walk into a room and you're like, hello, listen to this story. I want everyone to gather ut And the exact opposite. If I'm in a room full of people and someone says like, hey, Kristen, what happened at that thing, I'll just be like, oh, I'll start sweating and your drinking. Going to the dinner and someone else does all the talking. Yeah, that's why I like going to dinner with you. But so when you're there and you get into the groundlings, groundings opened everything up. How So because for you you're thinking acting and it was a performing on class. You said I'm gonna go to ELI to be an actress. And do you feel that you crossed the line and it was I'm a comedian or I'm a comedy actress. You never felt that way. No, I think it was it was improv It was watching people be on stage acting without a script. There was something in me that was like, I want to do that. I know that I can do that. For some reason, it was less scary to me than having words in front of me. Because I think when you're handed a scrip up, you know that you're supposed to do it in a certain way, and people will think like, how is she reading this? But when you're improvising, there's nothing to compare it to and you can do whatever. Yeah. But when I started taking classes at the Groundlings and taking improv it was like something just like clicked and I felt like, all, this is what I want to do. And but at the same time, did you get a sense of what you're doing? It was working. You were pretty good at it. I mean, yeah, I think so, but you were good No, I mean it was something. It was nice to have that thing that I knew that I was good at finally, besides art, which is very personal and quiet, and you know, that was just sort of something I did by myself. You don't talk to anybody when you're drawing or painting. It's very um isolating. And for me, doing the Groundlings was the exact opposite of that, because it's such a commune any and you're you improvise with other people and you have to connect with other people to make it work. Your audition to get in it's like a school. I mean, you have to go and take the first class, and then after the first class, your teacher tells you if you can move on, or if you should repeat it, or if this isn't for you, and then you just keep going. And then that's like where I learned how to write, was at the ground Links. And then ground Links was how long? Probably like four or five years, I guess a few years. Yeah, I mean there's time in between some of the levels because there's such a long waiting list. And then once I got into the main company, I was only in it for a handful of months before I got Now, when SNL comes knocking, for those we knocked, I don't know if they not. Well, we sent it. I'm my manager sent a tape in. So you had an agent and a manager. I had playing the whole thing out there. I had a manager, were working. I'd done a few pilots, I guess, and a few commercials. She went cloistered over there on the groundlings were you were working. I was, Yeah, I mean I still was had odd jobs. And when you connected with the SML people, you sent material to them. Naomi sent a tape in and then yes, sorry, my manager, Naomi Odenkirk, whose I wouldn't have any of my career if it wasn't for her. I used to babysit for her, and then I asked her to come see my Groundling show and she was like okay, um, but she just kind of sent my tape in and then you know, you don't hear anything, and then you just get a call. We'd liked her to audition this summer. Five characters, three impressions, five minutes, and I was like, Okay, I don't really have any impressions, so I'm gonna have to. Like I'd never done impressions on stage at the Groundlings. It was just kind of like joking around with my friends. Flew out there. It was the most terrifying experience. Who are you doing it for? I don't even remember like eceived darkness. I don't even I just remember Lauren was there and and Seth and Marcy Tina. You know, I hadn't met it. No. I went to New York once when I was in eighth grade and like went to go to court to like hard rock cafe or something. When I was in the eighth grade. You No, I came to New York and I was like, what, I bought a Stopwatch because I really thought they were going to just turn the lights off at five minutes, because they said, like, it's five minutes, please don't go over. So I was like electric, Yeah. So I practiced in the with like a stop watch, trying to get it under five minutes, exactly five minutes. And I don't do stand up. So the idea of performing by myself, I felt okay. I felt pretty good. They laughed a little bit. I was warned, you know, like it's going to be quiet, just do it. It's a tough crowd, just do it and go. If anything, I just felt happy that I did it because I was so terrified and shaking. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat, and it was over. I didn't hear anything. Then I was like, okay, well that was an experience. And then like a month and a half later, we got a call saying can she come back, you know, if she has new stuff or other stuff that would be great too, And I was like, I've crammed everything I've ever done in that five minutes. But then I just I came up with some new stuff, went back and did it again. Then they asked me to stay and meet with Lauren. I don't remember what I said. I do you have kind of an Alzheimer's problem. Now you don't remember a lot. I don't remember because I was I was. I do have a horrible memory. But also I was so nervous and probably didn't say much anyway, and then he was like, you know, well we don't really have room for you right now, but you know, your audition was great. I mean, he was so sweet, and I was like okay, and then I left and I said they didn't every I was so confused, and then I went home. And then the season started, and I remember watching the first show and being like, well, I didn't get it. And then after the fourth show, we got a call saying can she come? So then I started, like fifth show in I started, which was even more nerve wracking because you get out here. Yeah, had you watched the show prior to yeah? Oh yeah, especially high school. I remember it was like people would watch it and then remember of high school. Yeah, I don't really remember. So you you you had an awareness of the show when you were a fan of the show, so when they called you and asked you to come, you felt nervous. Other than nervous, I I don't know if there was even much more than nervous. I was happy. I was so happy. I was like, this is too good to be true. And in my mind, I'm thinking, I'm moving to New York City? Where do I live? What if I get there and none of my stuff works? You know, it's kind of getting SNL is a huge It's a huge deal. I mean I jumped up and down. I was I couldn't believe it. And I think the difference with SNLS. If I had gotten my big break whatever you want to call it, if it was a pilot or a TV show got picked up or a movie, you kind of know what to expect, and with SNL, you have no idea written yet hasn't been written, Like what am I going to do on the show? How? How does it's live? It's an hour and a half. Discovering what to do on SNL wouldn't be a problem for Kristen Wig. She went on to create some of the most memorable characters the show has ever seen. My next film is Tim Burton's adaptation of Alice in Wonderland, or what I like to call it, Alice and a wonder If someone put LSD in my crystal like she inhabited her SNL creations with the fierce commitment of a veteran film actor. It's no wonder her transition into movies was so smooth. And you'll be my man of honor. God, of course I will be super fun. It's get really fine. How wouldn't Linda review Bridesmaids? But wouldn't Linda side? She'd probably like there's too many women in it. Coming up, we'll talk with Kristen about SNL and Bridesmaids, which she started and co wrote, earning her an Oscar nomination for Best Screenplay. Later, I'll be visiting Dick Cavitt at his home for a conversation about, among other things, what makes a good conversation. My advice to you would be continue in what you're doing and change anything. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing. This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing. For the past seven years, Kristen Wigg has consistently made me laugh until tears streamed down my face. Before SNL, she did a lot of things. She was a cad to her, a waiter lady who gave out peach samples at a farmer's market, She painted retail window displays, and she answered phones at a law firm that lasted a day. But Kristen and Saturday Night Live, that was a match made to last until this past May, when Wigg left the show. Her characters often exercises in juxtaposition. Will be sorely missed. The repulsively friendly target cashier, sound screen, nose plugs. I wear nose plugs around the house when my neighbor cooks Bractoli, the queen of one upsmanship, What was your name? The pathologically nervous travel experts. I'm not nervous. I just changed my mind about doing this, just kidding, didn't change my mind. I changed my clothes. Was just getting my clothes and change my addressed and I live it. Twenty one jump streight, just kidding at the Jumber one two streight, just getting it. Didn't move, but I can move my body. Look just kidding. One of the greatest gifts from SNL is getting out of my comfort zone. I realized, I think Lauren realized probably the first handful of years that I was there. Most of my characters were ladies in their forties with like short hair and weird sweaters that nobody Barbara Bush, no one wanted at the dinner party. And the good thing about SNL for me creative least to think, Okay, I'm comfortable enough, I really want to try something that's not, you know, something that I normally do. And that's when I actually first came up with the character um Shanna. One time, I need a bunch of peanuts and I had a pain you're made Billy button. So the actor to me needed to still simple and I need to put in the Daney's cutest little void cup, the one that's like sexy but then does like gross things. Because I was like, I really want to write a character that looks kind of good but blank. And that's kind of where the Flirting Lady came from too. I was like, I just want to try, you know, I didn't really know what that was going to be. I mean, none of it was really on the page when we wrote it. But for you, do you feel like, when there's a quotient of a character which is a sensuous quotient and you're sending it up, do you realize that you could walk out the door tomorrow and probably play that character for real in a straight film. I mean, have you ever wanted to do play a leading lady in a dramatic film a love story? Oh? Yeah, period film. I would love to do that straight film. Yes, I hope, I hope I get the opportunity to do that. I was just actually talking to someone about this the other day that the audience very quickly puts you in uh folder, like they know you how they first knew you. I'm Kristen from SNL or comedic actress, and people are always so surprised when I want to do dramatic stuff. Really you really want to do that? Have you had any offers for that? Um? I mean there's a couple of things that I'm looking at doing next that aren't comedies at all. One of them is really not at all, and I'm horrible movie. I just want to be in like a ton Do you ever want to do a harm movie with me? Are you kick a paranormal Blair? Which thing? We're just completely Lucy goosey and just cameras and we improv we could shoot it in here. We're on the radio and then we just hear voice a dead announcer who's in here, in locks in here, you know, let's talk about that later on. Okay, I love that. Let's get ut out. Someone's got to be listening to somebody really good with a typewriter, not a computer. So you wrote Bridesmaids as if nobody now, okay, Annie, Mama. I don't know Annie, but I know you. And there really is something in this business when you see somebody who is as lovely as you are, and as pleasant as you are, and as talented as you are, and kind of unassuming. I mean, you're not a very self important artist in this business, and then all of a sudden you go, wow, you know, you make a movie that's just this huge success. We look back on it, now, what do you think? When we were making the movie, it was like, we wrote this thing, we hope it works. Whose idea was it? Everyone's having fun? What's going to happen? The original just the idea of the story was Annie's. Jedd asked me to write something for myself after I did Knocked Up, and he's like, you can write by yourself, you can have a writing partner. Most of the sketches that I wrote at Groundlings with someone else where with Annie. So I just called her and we'd kind of talk loosely like someday we should maybe write a movie. But that's so daunting. I don't know how to write. He said, let's write twenty sketches. Sketches we can do. Yeah, and then just I kind of put them together. So she had this idea and I was in New York, and so she actually went to Jed's office and you know, I was like, hi, a Manny's our idea, and He's like, okay, yeah, start writing it. So every hiatus I would come to l A. We discovered Skype later, but we like to do everything together. We're not one of those teams that just says like, hey, write this and send it to me. We like to do everything together. So you wrote this for Judd? Yeah, and then what happened? And then how much note did you get from somebody else? Was it all like? It was there? We were writing every day on set, writing all lines, writing new jokes. Yeah. We would have scenes written. He'd be like, okay, write this scene again, but maybe this happens, or how about instead of these two characters, maybe it's the other two girls that are there. So it was constant writing, rewriting every day. We would get a packet of scenes from old drafts, scenes that we loved, scenes that you know, other people's ideas refused to do. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it was a lot of writing, a lot of writing, and in terms of the casting, it looks to me like you got everybody you wanted. True. Yeah. One of the reasons why Annie and I wanted to write this movie was that we know so many funny women from the groundings, and you know, women of those were in the film, Wendy and Melissa and mayas a former groundling um Ellie and Rose were the only ones that I didn't know. But talk about Rose Burne who I saw her at the SAG Awards and of course she looks Yeah, I saw the SAG Awards, and she definitely is dear in the headlights when you meet her. She's very sweet, but she is divine and she's so game. Do you find that all you need to be as a good actor to get the common anything or don't there something special to comedy? I think you just said, I mean, to be game, you have to be willing to not look good, to put it out there, poke fun at yourself. And Rose is like she has no improv experience and she improvised like crazy in this movie. I don't know. I think she's played cotillion kind of broad. It's we've seen that have a lot of manifestations, but you've got to stay with it, you know, you've got to never comment on it. And that's what I love was she was like it was acting. She's like playing this really a stick up her, you know what? Yeah? And Annie, And I've always said the Helen character that she played was the toughest to figure out because she's this person that my character instantly hates, but my best friend is very close with her, so you have to see what she sees in her too. So Rose was that perfect thing of like, oh God, she's driving me crazy, but oh I kind of want to hang out with her. And she did that women like if men are friends and then you have a friend, I can't stand. But with men, they understand just don't bring him around, right, But with women it's like, you know, you know, come on, yeah, bring her over. He's not so bad. Yeah, And then she comes over and you're like, Hi, talk about Melissa. Melissa at the Groundlings was a little ahead of me. From the moment I met her. I just was like looked up to her and had never seen anyone in my life not only embrace characters like she does, but creates them. The stuff that she's done at the Groundlings is insane, like shows sold out when she's you know, doing her stuff. When she came into audition for this, it was absolutely perfect. There's something very maternal about Melissa, which was very important in that character. And also she's just can I swear on the show? I think of a metaphor. Okay, she's effing brilliant. Can I just say that, we're like so lucky that she's in the movie. What are you doing next? Have you any movies in the can? I have one movie that's in the can right now called Imogene. I'm a writer in New York. My relationship has just ended. Without giving too much away, people think that I tried to kill myself and drama. It's it's a drama with comedy in it. And then I have to be released to a family member when I'm in the hospital because they don't have enough room in the hospital, and so I have to go home to my mom, who in that Benning plays I'm seeing her or talk to her, and you know, eight ten years so it's sort of going back home, finding out what's important, that whole kind of thing. This is a trite question, but I often think about this myself, being older than you and coming from a different generation. When I would come in and I would meet people that were not peers of mine, but people that I really admired. But I didn't always work with people that were, you know, on Turner classic movies, so to speak. I wasn't making movies with John Garfield, but the William Holden. But when I would meet these people that I deeply admired, it was just such an amazingly resonating experience. And on SNL, you've got a different person every week, presumably, who are some of the ones that are most memorable to you that you work with? You were like, I can't believe I'm standing here doing my thing with Blank Well SNL side of up bending on this movie. I had completely had that with her. I couldn't believe I was doing scenes with her and she was playing my mother. I mean, I can't even just very gifted. Yeah, um my god, SNL is like every week, can you think of even one or two that you just went holy you no, No, come on true um Steve Martin. When I first met him, I was like, oh my gosh, I've I've watched you and worshiped you. Yeah, for most of my and that was pretty crazy. And DeNiro when he posted it was it was amazing. Plus you know what it is because you meet people, you go out to parties, whatever, and you meet people. But when people come to S and L, you're seeing such a different side to them because they're not in their element. Some of the more dramatic actors don't have comedy experience, so it's interesting to see people not in their element come on the show and be sort of like, tell me what to do. Kristen's final Saturday Night Live show was an emotional one. Each cast member, one at a time, danced with Kristen Wiggs said she would miss SNL in many ways. It's a two parter at the people. I'm going to miss seeing all those faces every day and what the people bring out in me, that creative muscle that you have when you're at SNL. You know, it's so fast paced. You're putting a puzzle together and it has to be put together by Saturday, and being surrounded by creative people and knowing that you're all in it together and you're putting on a show, pushing this huge boulder together. Every Saturday you do something that you're scared to do. I will miss that feeling. And of course you have absolutely no prospects whatsoever. I really it's a really ballsy move on your part, because who the f can hire you? I don't know. I may go back to open up a canoe shop? Is the goal for you? Films? And it's less kind of factory work like TV can be. Yeah, I mean temporarily, I mean I I don't know. I don't like the word goal because I feel like those are always changing for me. You don't like having goals. I don't like having goals. That's why, you know, do what I do. I don't know. I want to direct, I want to live in Paris and paint. I want to do like I don't know. I want to do a lot of different things, seriously, live in Paris and I don't know? You well, maybe but then I live in Paris for two months? How great? There? You and I are going to have dinner when we talk about the Haunted Studio. Maybe that John is going to give us notes on we'll get together. Also, we'll have another lunch of separate to talk about healthy goal making healthy right, you know what I mean. It's not that I don't think you should have goals. Let me go back. What I'm saying is my life right now is not what I thought it would be six months ago. But you never know what's going to happen, and it's so day to day and I don't know. I just I don't know. But I love that you're so blithe about it, but in a healthy way where you're like, you know, I'm gonna leave myself because that's our straight today. No, I never want to stop doing creative things, whatever they may be. It's all going well. I can't complain. I'm very happy as she should be. Kristin Wig is preparing to star and upcoming films directed by Sean Penn, Ben Stiller and Aero Morris, and if things go the way one would suspect, she'll continue to delight us for as long as My Next Guest has. Over the course of nearly five decades and television, Dick Cavott has perfected the art of the great interview. The Dick Cavitt showed debut in here was a small town Nebraska boy with a Yale education. Cultured yet unintimidating, thoughtful, honestly, curious, and funny. He had a knack for gently driving the conversation to the heart of the matter while keeping his guests relaxed. All yours and again, Oh my goodness, wouldn't it be ridiculous if you didn't. Cavot show could book the brightest and often the most reclusive celebrities of that time, Katherine Hepburn, John and Yoko, Groucho, Marks, Orson, Wells, Truman, Capote. Eventually, Cavitt himself was as admired as his guests. Robert, if one more person had told me how many times you've terrified interviewers, I wouldn't have been able to do this. I don't feel it. I'd terrify interviewers the moral less terrifying me. W Reynolds ask him, do it's that root in Hollywood Day? Asks? It's all right now, you can ask me, you know, I mean, I mean, my teeth don't come out. I visited Cavatt at his house in Montauk, a place called Tick Hall. I've known Cavatt for several years as a neighbor out on Long Island, taken Tick Hall sits atop a remote cliff overlooking the Atlantic. The views are spectacular. Cavots lived here since the nineteen sixties. For our listeners, that's sound you're hearing is the rattle of the iced tea being delivered into the very attractive employee. Yeah, that's actually his wife, Martha. His first wife, Carrie Ny, died in two thousand six. Eddie and Puff. Cavot got his start in show business writing for the greats of early television, Jack Parr, MERV Griffin and Johnny Carson. After a few years of this, he decided to start writing for himself. But first he had to figure out who he was. And there's a breakthrough point I had when I got what you might call a premise, and I've just refound thank god it lost letter from Grautchow saying I saw you on the MERV Griffin show the other night and got that old feeling. Seriously, he may have said, I think you've struck a mother load with your idea of being the Nebraska yokel at Yale and that was the card you played. Well, Yes, I started thinking what you know? Always you here writers right, what they know? Well, what's my life? What do I know? I don't have an usual large nose, I don't have fun. Him not short and fat. I can't play off that him. But I did come from the Midwest and go to the Ivy League, totally contrasting worlds. There's no in your family. None. All three of my parents I also had a stepmother, were teachers, and my dad taught high school. And and as he always reminded me, when I was going to spend some money on something, your mother and I in the depression had to decide whether it has spend a dime on a loaf of bread or if we could go to a movie with it. I can't believe that, But that's depression there. That was my Yeah. I think every time I go to Comstock, I tried to picture where my dad maybe lived and taught, and but he was rewarded with nine hundred dollars a year. Now, what what was your relationship to conversation? Meaning have you've always been the conversationalist back home in Nebraska? And then when you went to Yale and a month ago on this table and I was going through old envelopes of stuff, I found three what do you call report cards from third, fourth and fifth grade? Miss Gabus, Ms Fuchs and Mrs Graham, And all three of them said, one might imagine how far Dick would get if he'd stopped talking in glass, you've hit it. Dick has learned to control his talking, is on two of them, and Dick mis learned to let others talk occasionally, one of the wittier ones put down. But you were always someone who was a gift you had, apparently, And did you go to Yale undergrad? You do graduate school as well, No, undergrad only Sometimes I referred to as a drama school graduate. Weren't I Wasn't? I took three courses in the drama school while I was an undergraduate, directing Miss Welch's speech class, Stage speaking its theory and practice, and a theater history class taught by a humorist German. If that isn't too redn You mentioned his name When I saw what was the name? Alois Nuggler? It was it was kind of good. He looked like Rex Harrison but spoke like Himmler. Who was my other favorite name? You told me the other day, Olah oh Orson Wells beautiful beautiful girlfriend. I met in the right in that part of the plaza lobby that carry Grant pauses at in the beginning of North Benworthwest and Essential, and he said, Dick, this is my lady friend, Oya Palin Cashoia Palin Cash, And I thought, I don't remember that name. As long as god, I'd love to know the details of his life in all those years when he'd make a film, not quite finish it, move on, live off some countess somewhere, and then his next address would be in Spain, and the next one would be in Dunkirk, and God, what a life, mad strange wasted gigantic amount of talent. Obviously not totally waste, because they did a lot of films. But in a doctor's office I picked up a national a New Republic, and it was an article that began. Someday theater historians will have to deal with the problem of what Marlon Brando and Orson Welles did to their bodies. Any parallels their two careers, the wastedness, the bad choices early for the business that they loved to express. When I was going to do a television show, I was ten years too old for the part. I was forty, and they wanted me to do Brick and Cat on a hot tin roof. You were ten years to to old forty and Brick should be, you know, hovering around thirty late twenties. So they wanted me to do this for CBS and have Brando play Big Daddy. So I contacted him and he says, when would you like to get together? I said, I'd like to get together with you this week, quite frankly, because I'm leaving for Africa, and he said, sure, come over the house on Thursday at one o'clock. I went to his house twelve. I went to Moholland Drive and had lunch with him for nearly four hours at his house, and he talked about his weight game and his physical problems. He talked about it like it was an air bag, like it just like one day. And it wasn't until he was morbidly obese did he say, well, maybe I'm not doing so well. But when you did the show with him, because I watched so many of your shows, he wasn't very terribly fat. Then he had a gut. Yeah, he was a little blocky. But the funny think about him is there's later Brando, you know the very end. And there's him with Larry King, and he's very playful and he's very childlike. But with you when he was on he seemed very fueral on the show? Was he that way off camera? He seemed like he was gonna throw a punch any minute now I know? And and the alternating with that million dollar green that admitted he couldn't cut away from it to do a reaction shop. It was so intipnotized by that fabulous grand his uh he seemed to have. Other people said the show seemed like pulling teeth and what did he bring? The dreary Indian zone forward and all the stuff. It was a very difficult evening. And if I had it to do again, I didn't resist him any except at one point, well I got a laugh that he didn't get until he heard the audience laugh. It looks like when I've seen it back, which was what about the success of the movie Godfather? And and he said, uh, we'll talk about movies when the audience laughed. That's one thing he would talk to a big movie star, ban he said, And then he grinned. He gave through that, and the amalous grin like I know what that's must mean to you. So then I said, how about the book The god Father? And he knew to laugh before. And the other one was his belittling ice ta rattling, belittling of the of the art of acting. And now you know anybody can do it. You know. Once he said to me, you know your mom said, who pete on the toilet seat? And you said, I didn't do it. You're acting? Then yeah. I come into his house and he says, he says, and we're sitting there and I'm completely numb. He comes in the first you. He comes in in a mumu and we're in his house. It's a very hostinatory moment for me. He looks at me and says, uh, you and I are like two dogs sniffing each other right now. And he says, I'd like to make an arrangement with you, an agreement with you. Who are you? Say whatever you want to say, and ask me whatever you want to ask me, and I'll say whatever I want to say, and I'll ask you whatever I want to ask. You will just talk about whatever we want to talk about. It'll make us feel That is so him. But I know what you mean when you first mate him. If you can stop the voice in your head saying Jesus Christ. This is Marlon Brando that I'm sitting with. And he's so aware that my first talk with him was on the phone where we are now. In fact, he called I've told you what at a certain time, and we talked with the sun about fifteen degrees of the horizon until well after the moon had written. Coming up after a break. More with TV legend Dick Cavitt, a man who knows exactly what to do when an interview guest, it is truly awful. Be sure you have mel Brooks sitting there. I'm Alec Baldwin and here's the thing. Take a listen to our archive more unexpected conversations with artists, writers, policymakers and performers. If I throw off on this table, is that a problem? Musicians? We expect strange behavior from me? How long does this go on? By the way, listen to as much as you like at Here's the Thing, Dot Org. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. He's a television legend, but Dick Cavitt's also acted in movies and on Broadway. Hosted a radio show and written several books. His latest is a memoir called Talk Show Cave. Its recollections of specific episodes and guests are incredibly candid and clear, as if they happened yesterday. The bad the good was of course always welcome, and I had no reason to think that James Mason would be the first person I ever had on the show in my daytime. Show was so enchantingly charming, talking without any sense of putting on the charm that I missed all signals to go to commercial. And it was the first time that I broke through reading my notes off to the guests, barely able to hear what they were saying for reasons of nerves and signals that I just missed over their shoulder, and oh my god, someone led her to card and took it back, and oh god, the guests lips have stopped moving. Um, do you have any hobbies? The disappointing guests were writers. Now I loved having writers on. I did Boys Dream Some Boys Dreams, Uptake and cheever on the same show, Chievers Separately, Uptake, Separately, Saw Bellow. I had them. I started to say, I had them all who didn't cut it as a talk show. But the thing was that, Yeah, you couldn't believe that this semi articulate person having trouble with vocabulary, seemingly and just outlandish, unbelievable things had written that glorious prize winning prose that you read. Now. The exceptions were, of course Manny and Truman Capodi questionably accurate but entertaining yest at all times. You had Olivia on the show, correct, Yes, it was a ninety minutes show in London, and then I did him again in New York, um in the Windham Hotel with with the Olivia Johan playwright. So I got two with Olivier. Um, how was that? Well? It was? It was fine. He what was so interesting? That was fine? It was the opposite of bad, I think was what I was drinking. You can't pick on a guy's choice of words. I swore to God recently that I would never say the word awesome in my life. And if we could only make that true everyone in the world, that would be swell. That can go along with iconic and um closure and like of course and a few others. Amazing. We all are saying amazing all the time. Now I got five amazings and watching morning television for about forty minutes the other day, Amazing guests, amzing guests. We have just amazing script. It's just amazing. I was amazed, but career amazes. But Olivia was terrific, and he was such a clown afterwards, not on the air. He could have done so more on the air and it would have been wonderful. I think I was probably a little too in awe. I didn't say awesome to get all the fun out of him that I later learned is in there. Who were the people today that you sit there and say? God, If I was doing it now, that seemed like it could be fun. I almost wish you hadn't asked me that, because here's how that thought occurred to me. I was on a radio showed plugging the book of It was Mark Simon, and he said this, you must get cabots DVDs. Uh, there's one called Hollywood Grates and and may he may have said, tell us who's on it? And I thought, put a dirty trick. I won't be able to think of two of them now. But I had it sitting there on my messy table, and here's who's on it. It has all of Katherine Hepburn, Betty Davis, Fredis Stare, Kirk Douglas, Lucille Ball, Frank Capra. No Coward Cowardy isn't on that one, dammit. That's the disciple went to Robert mitcham Orson Welles, John Houston, and Marlon Brando, and I looked at this that I mentioned Lucille Ball, and I thought two things. M A, am I the only one in this cover of this box who's alive? No Kirk Douglas is. But what I really thought was who are their counterparts? Now? What list of today's grades would include that many redwoods? Even in politics, politics writing? Has there anybody authors? And I think we live in an age of increasing mediocrity. So you don't sit there and say, I would love to have had Richard Holbrook on I'd love to have. Oh there are some, There are plenty of people. Yeah, yes, Meryl Streep belongs to anybody's list of grades soon and and and, but I don't think quite so many achieve. Maybe you can't be big in the way those people were, These giant people who are do they grow redwoods anymore? Do they just grow with smaller sequoias or fines controversiis so yeah. Well, the media is like a train, you know. I mean it used to be a train was a glamorous, gleaming thing that wasn't up. Now a train is a filthy yeah, when you get in when you can't completely outside show business. But when I was a kid, I marveled that Japan had a two hundred mile an hour the Shinkansen bullet train, and we still have the Long Island Railroad and I'm fifty years older. Yeah, it's a great country, that wasn't it. Otherwise America it is. Yes, you um, you obviously have had your difficulties and you've talked about it. No, No, you're looking over yourself like that's somebody else. And I know for me, when I was getting divorced and I was in the the real native of the whole experience, I felt horrible. Everybody gets down, everybody has the blues, everybody suffers losses. You can not only have a bad game, you can have a bad season. Yeah, but then when do you decide that you need help from someone clinically? Since memory is affected by depression, there are details like that. They're not absolutely sure, but I know at one time I knew was that when I boarded the concorde and realized I'm not going to be this sick in another country and got off and I called my shrink and he said, well, you can either get on the next plane or go to Colombia. And my staff was already over there, and I just said I can't go away feeling this horrible. A stewardess took one look at me and said, you want to get off. I said yeah, I mean she saw whatever it was, it was clear, he'll bring it. Me ask you this, Did you work during any of this? Were you able to work? I had to work. You had to work and work to me a bit I can tell you quickie. That involves two people we've already named. I was at the Brando residence you might have just left one day and I told him about taking a show with Olivier in the Window hotel or PBS, and I said, I was so depressed while doing it, and it's being Olivier made me realize how depressed I was, because when I got to the hotel and they took me to a room and we were going to tape in the room up above, I thought Laurence Olivier is one story above me, and I don't give a damn. I want to go home and get under the rug. And there are some cue cards. What do they say, I'll start it over again. How can they be so cruel to get me out of bed and to do this? And sitting there with the Olivier's having read it Pumpter cue card introduction, the chat started and I had some notes off him, but I thought, this is awful. They're going to come over any moment and say, Dick, it's all right, well send them home, or we will send you home and their home. You know, we'll get them back on another day. This is obviously not a good day for you. They thought, rushing through my head was they can see I am nuts. My brain is cracked. They can see it. I must be taking twenty second pauses from when they speak until I do, and I must be just hanging there with my head a better. They praised my head a little. And Olivier is quite quite smart enough in the psychology of performing and so on to know that he's kind of ding bad on his hands. And this is here. Yeah, Robin, my my producer, will come over and say it's all right. But I realized I had finished it, and I was telling Brando that and he said, I said, how awful was And he said to show. I said, oh god, you're kidding. No, don't my favor. Come look at it. Saffy year later? All right, well longer I was well then, So I went home and looked at it and I was fine, it's pauses. And I saw him again and reported that to him. I said, how did you know what is that? I didn't have hesitations. I came right in. I looked interested, which I wasn't. My eyes were spark going, which I were no reason. And I looked like I was having the best time with the Olivier as anyone could have with anybody. It's an automotic pilot. I've heard the resort to it. A lot takes over. So had I stayed at home that day and not taped the Olivier's, I would have stayed in bed and could not. If I had been taped there, I wouldn't have looked good. But some part of us who are in the business something won't let you, some crazy way be a total mess while you're working. Well, there's two of us, Yeah, we have two of those two sods. I saw it with Judy Garland, who was I think on my show for her last television appearance, the sixty eight daytime show. ABC erased them all and used them to take the let's make a deal. It might be there's somebody has a bumpy home tape of that. She was so wonderful. You talk about the tapes, but them I want to get back to the you know, whenever you talk about these tapes and you got the rights to the ABC, there's several several versions of what really happened. I just remember being told one day, Dick, they they're going to either reuse the tapes or erase them or dump them. Would you say, what tapes that once to the ABC show and you can have them if you want to for sixty dollars? And I thought, well, that's a ludicrous amount of money and a guy on my staff unfortunately, but he did it quite well. I went through them and eliminated those he thought would never be of any interest again, and it turned out some of them would have been. But I have most all of them. Thank god he didn't rely on you for that choice, because you would have sent him, well, you can get rid of the Olivier because I was Zons throughout the Yeah, the throw out that way, I was fine for the first or they're able. When you talk about those ABC tapes, I in my mind visualize the guys throwing the sled on the fire, you know, burning. I see these guys in the box of What are we supposed to do with these tapes? Charlie, Yeah, somebody said, I don't know, that's the Cabin show. I mean, what the hell is that? Ray said, throw it in the fire. You're too reel, you know. The Cent of Bitches erased most of Johnny Carson's New York shows years of the number which I was on. I'd love to see them. What's your relationship to television now? Any of it? You watch any you like? So? I don't associate television with entertainment very much. Umtal total three hundred and sixty degrees. When we got television in Nebraska, I watched it every evening. I could tell you now, CBS, NBC and ABC schedules for every night of the week. Back then, I watched everything, and a lot of it was good. I wasn't just watching crap. I watched Studio One, I watched Robert Montgomery, Philco Theater, the Web, of course, Gleason and Variety shows that Sammy Spear and his orchestra, Les Brown and his band renowned. And now here's the star of our show, Bobo Bad and I Got Goose Pimples. Even now you can read Dick Cavits blog a word he admits he had to look up before he started writing one on the New York Times website. Here's the Thing is produced by Emily Botine and Kathy Russo, with support from Jim Briggs, Wendy door Ed Herbstman, Melanie Hoops and Monica Hopkins. Thanks to Tray k lu Okowski and Larry Josephson and the Radio Foundation. I'm Alec Baldwin, m

Here's The Thing with Alec Baldwin

Award-winning actor Alec Baldwin takes listeners into the lives of artists, policy makers and perfor 
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