Katie Porter Enjoys Being a Fish Out of Water

Published Feb 9, 2021, 5:00 AM

In 2018, U.S. Representative Katie Porter (CA-45) was the first Democrat ever to be elected in her traditionally conservative Orange County district. Prompted to run by Trump’s 2016 win, Porter quickly made a name for herself with her tough questioning of CEOs and administration officials, often using a whiteboard to lay out the facts. Katie Porter’s no-nonsense approach comes in part from her upbringing in Iowa. During the farm crisis of the 1980s, she saw first-hand how her father, a third generation farmer turned community loan officer, helped to support their neighbors. She went on to study bankruptcy law under Elizabeth Warren at Harvard Law School and become a consumer protection attorney and a law professor. A single mom to three school-age children, Katie Porter tells Alec people often have often underestimated her - at their own peril.

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This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing from My Heart Radio. My guest today is United States Congresswoman Katie Porter, a Democrat in her second term. Porter represents California's district in Orange County, which is traditionally conservative. She's a consumer protection attorney and a law professor. She quickly developed a name for herself in her first term with tough questioning of people testifying before Congress, often using her famous white board to hold CEOs and political appointees accountable. Katie Porter grew up on a farm in Iowa. During the farmer crisis of the nineteen eighties. She broke with family tradition of attending state school to go to Yale and went on to Harvard Law School. She decided to run for office after Trump's win in two thousand sixteen, and became the first Democrat elected in her district. Katie Porter is comfortable being a fish out of water. I like to be challenged. UM. I like to learn, and I think that was a huge part of, you know, why I chose to to go, you know, off to college far away from Iowa to kind of stretch myself. Um. I loved being a professor. I was a professor here at the University of California, Irvine, teaching business law horses, and then really stretched myself when I ran for Congress. And one of the great things about being in Congress that I never hear anyone talking about, which makes me kind of skeptical, frankly, is that the great thing about this job is every minute you should be learning something, whether that's listening to your constituents, whether that's a briefing from about national security, you know, whether that's you know, having a meeting with your staff. There's just so much to learn to be able to do this job effectively. And I like that. So in some ways it's very much like being a professor. My job is to learn stuff and then to help teach, and so in this case, instead of teaching a classroom, I think about teaching the American people. You graduated Harvard Law School one year two one, So when you left there, where did you go from there? Where did you first go out of school? So I went to clerk for a federal judge in Little Rock, Arkansas. He was a wonderful judge. And this won't surprise people, there weren't a lot of other law clerks who wanted to work on the bankruptcy cases. Um and so literally I think I got to work on every single bankruptcy opinion the entire Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals, which stretches from North Dakota down to Arkansas, worked on that year. Um. And then I went off and I practiced. I took the bar exam, and I practiced law in Portland, Oregon for a couple of years. What led you to Portland from Little Rock? My now ex husband is from their family. Yeah, family, and you know, it was a good place to practice there. And then decided that I wanted to become a law professor. And I hadn't really gone to law school thinking maybe I want to be a professor. I had thought about getting a PhD. Um And at the time, the idea of writing a book seemed really long to me, which is funny because I've now written two law textbooks that are like a thousand pages each. Um. But when I got to law school, I was I really liked it. I wasn't sure what I wanted to teach, what did I love? Where did I wanted to spend my whole career studying and then I took Elizabeth Warren's bankruptcy class, and that was it. That was what I wanted to spend my life working on. This is why you were in law school. This is when I went to law school. My third year in law school. Tell the story if you would have you approached Warren after she was less than cuddly towards you in class. Yeah. Yeah, So Elizabeth was a really great professor. She called on students um, and you had to have your homework done. You had to be prepared if you showed up. And so I was a rule follower. I did my homework. I sat in the front row, which I thought would help her overlook me, but it didn't really work out that way. And so you know, one of the solutions to not being called on is to raise your hand um. And so she was asking a question and I raised my end and I gave what I thought was a pretty good answer, and I remember her turning to me, I'll never forget I mean the hand yester, I can do it today. She said, thank, miss Porter, thank And I remember just wilting inside because I was thinking. I was thinking so hard and I was coming up short um, and I went to see her after that, and I said, don't give up on me. I've never taken a course like this before. I didn't take some of the there's a couple kind of courses you often take, their introductory to bankruptcy, and I just jumped into the deep end. I was like, don't give up on me. I really care about this stuff. And the reason I cared so much about bankruptcy was growing up in Iowa in the nineteen eighties during farm made and the tractor motorcades, and watching the farming community where I grew up really struggle economically. When I got to bankruptcy, I realized there are tools in law and policy to help. Right now. When you made that request of war, did she granted what she were given? Take with you in the classroom? Did she be going? I mean no, it actually was the opposite. She came back to me even more because she knew I really cared, like she knew that it mattered to me. My message to her wasn't taken easy on me. It was don't give up on me. And a lot of professors, I mean I see this in witness rooms actually in hearings, and people will ask a witness a question, and the witness will stonewall give a nonsense and answer another question, answer another question. And what my colleagues will do is they'll just give up. They'll move on, they'll start giving a speech. But just like in the classroom, when I gave a wrong answer, Warren didn't say, oh well, let me go find someone more cooperative. She told me think she stuck with me as I was learning. So whenever I hear someone, you know, they give a nonsense answer, I'm not going anywhere. You said something interesting. When people don't give a good answer, you know, I myself become exhausted by the unwillingness of people to answer the questions of the duly elected members of Congress. You are here, and Congresswoman, poor order or anybody, you're not doing this for your health. You're doing this on behalf of your constituency of the American people. You're representing the American people, and many of them are so smug and so arrogant and won't answer your question. And I was wondering, do you find that the authority of the Congress is weakened in recent years because people feel like, what does it matter? There's no teeth behind this. So I think that some of the things that we've been able to do with our hearings is actually restore a sense of accountability to this, which is if you if I ask you a question and you give me a nonsense answer, I'm not going to pretend that what you said makes sense. I'm not going to accept a wrong answer. If you're dodging, if you're stonewalling, I'm going to try to get you to answer, so you would think, I mean, it's sort of an interesting to mean. I remember, like maybe the second or third hearing I was at, I said, well, surely you know, now everyone will come really prepared, like I won't stomp anybody anymore because they'll know that you have to show up and take me seriously. But you know, I've been underestimated my whole life. At this point, I kind of exploit that. And when does this still show up and they're contemptuous or they're unprepared. I mean, the other day Steve Minuchin said, well, are you a lawyer? Like, yes, I am, Like since you mentioned it, but I think that you know the goal is that these shouldn't be performance art moments. They should be substantive and so you know. The one thing I will say about the white board is it's not about trying to go viral um. It's not about an antic. It's not an antic. It is a tool. And so sometimes I use it, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I use other things I don't, you know. I think it was maybe one of my staffers m when we started. The first time we ever used it was with Jamie Diamond. We were trying to go through the budget of a worker, what a typical family would spend and compare it to the salary and show that even though he's paying more than minimum wage, people can't make against meat On that she had two thousand, four hundred twenty five dollars a month. She rents a one betterm apartment. She and her daughters sleep together in the same room in Irvine, California. That average one better apartment is going to be sixteen hundred dollars. She spends one hundred dollars on utilities, take away the seventeen hundred, and she has net seven hundred twenty five dollars, four hundred dollars for car expenses and gas net three. A low food budget is four hundred dollars. That leaves her seventy seven dollars in the red. She has a cricket cell phone, the cheapest cell phone she can get for forty dollars. She's in the red. A hundred seventeen dollars a month. She has after school childcare because the bank is open during normal business hours. That's for fifty a month. That takes her down to negative five hundred and sixty seven dollars per month. My question for you, Mr Diamond, is how should she manage this budget shortfall while she's working full time at your bank. And so the idea of the white board was just instead of having all these numbers what she spends on rent and food and rattling it all off a million miles an hour and then he says, I'm sorry to repeat that. I mean that is what every the first refuge of every unprepared student in every classroom in America is to ask the teacher, I'm sorry, could you repeat the question. That's a courtroom tactic exactly, so, especially in Congress, we only have five minutes. So if someone says kid, you repeat that, and you've spent a minute setting up the question. Your loss. So the idea of the white board was to prevent him from being able to, you know, sort of dodge and stall. And you know, the interesting thing that he said is I'd have to think about it. And I asked him, you know again, and he said, I have to think about it. And I asked him, well, what about this? And he said, you have to think about it. And really, I hope he is. I hope that moment did prompt him to think. When I was doing Saturday Night Live for this long run during Trump's thing, and we would be there and I would pitch ideas, and I wanted your character to have the white board everywhere, like you were with your kids at the breakfast table. All right, let me show you, and like you have the white board out of your drawing everything for your children and and your boyfriend, and you're at the gas station and whatever. Everywhere you go, someone is handing your whiteboard. But I wonder, is there a distinction between when you're questioning people, not only the questions you ask, the way you ask them again, you only have five minutes, but the way you anticipate they're going to respond when their government administrators who are there to protect an administration. Do you see there's a difference between the two. When someone who is a political appointee is before you, are they even worse in terms of their caginus? No, not always. I mean I think that, you know, it just depends on the witness. We try to anticipate what the witness will say. In other words, what's the obvious thing they're going to try to dodge with? Where are they going to try to misdirect us? If we we research the witnesses, sometimes we'll watch video clips of them to try to understand kind of what they're like, um, whether they get easily frustrated, whether they launch into long, boring explanations. So I'm prepared to cut that off. But I think one of the great myths is that, you know, the Oversight Committee, where I'm so excited to be serving again in this Congress, somehow is less important or less exciting in a democratic administration, given that I'm a Democrat than it was when you know, we were a Trump administration, and you know, so opposite. I would just tell you that these are both oversight stays important. I mean, once we're enacting programs that I have supported and I have voted for as a Democrat, I'm even more concerned that these programs are working as intended. So the responsibility to do good oversight. It's not a partisan thing. It's part of effective government. Now, do you go back to your office sometimes and watch yourself, watch clips of yourself, and review what you've done to see how effective or ineffective you think it might have been. Not usually, I mean it's interesting after I question, and when I'm questioning, I typically have no idea what anybody else around me is doing or saying or reacting. It's it's just me and that witness, right and just looking at him, you know. I like, after I question Postmaster de Joy, oh my god, Oh my god, I wasn't sure that I made the point that I wanted to make. Now it turns out I think I did. But when I got off, I was just like, I don't think I did it. I think I messed it up. So it's often, you know, it's it's not about how I'm feeling. It's about whether it's resonating with the American people. So it often, you know, that's about how people react to it. So you can make something that you think is great, you know, but if other people don't find it moves them, then it doesn't really work. What's going to happen with the joy? Is it? A civil service thing? In his job is safe, he can't be fired. Well, so he was appointed by the Postal Board, which oversees the post Office, so they can remove him, um, and I hope they do. There's also the possibility that he does what so many people have done you who came from the Trump administration, which is that they quit um, which I certainly hope is what happens. If he doesn't quit, then I helped the Postal Board holds him accountable because they really a lot of the problems that he created, um, you know, he has not been able to fix. And the most revealing part of that was when I asked him, I said, will you keep saying you didn't do all these things? Not my fault. Someone else did this. So I'm a very last person to question. I think I am the forty eight person to ask questions or something crazy like that. So I asked him, well, you said you didn't do this, who did? I'm with you, which seems like a pretty obvious question, right, But nobody had asked something he should know, Like all day long, people had just said why did you do this, and the answer had been, well, I didn't, And I asked him, well, who did it? And he said he couldn't tell me, which tells you there was an even bigger problem. I'm sorry that you don't have the opportunity to remove him yourself, because I mean, he basically turned the post office into an office max for the Republican Party. But I want to get back to something else, and that is so when you're down in southern California and you go to Orange County, it was primarily to take the teaching gicket. You see Irvine. If you see Irvine is a campus inside the red, red red part of California there in Orange County. What was it like for you down there working there? Was Was it a very conservative staff and an administration and faculty? No? I mean, look, Irvine has changed a lot, and a big part of the reason that Irvine and Orange County has changed is in part the presence of the university. UM. It's a large employer here. It attracts bright and interesting and thoughtful people from all around the country and even the world. UM. And so you know, my kids go to school, UM in public school here, and they are they have some very conservative classmates. I mean one of my former cub Scouts. I was his cub Scout dead leader for five years. That kid actually made phone calls from my Republican opponent in eighteen So I don't know what that says about my cub Scout skills. But you know, uh, you know, actually there are a real diversity of opinion here. But there are very progressive people here too. There are people in the middle, there are Republicans. I like that diversity. I represent roughly equal numbers of Republicans, Democrats, and no party preference or independent voters. And what that means is, on any given topic, I need to know how to talk to people who will come at it from a lot of different perspectives. And that is an incredible skill to have, and I wish all of my colleagues had it. Frankly, So when you won in it was it was close. It was tight race, correct, very close. I lost. I like to say I lost before I won. So on election night you typically have three speeches in California, you have um I won, I lost, and we don't know because it often takes a while to count all the mail ballots. And so I gave that I don't know speech that we don't know. But everybody was crying and telling me, good try. I got all these sympathy calls, UM, and sympathy emails. You know, we love you anyway. Nice try, um. You know you made a difference, even though you're you're not going to make a difference kind of things. And then slowly but surely, over the next couple of days, took about seven days. I won. That's why would get these messages back. Never mind to leave my hero. I knew you could do it. Remember more faith than you. Yeah. Now, in the second race, this last election, you won more handily. Correct. I won by a couple six percent, I think, um, And the first time it was four. So I made up I made up a little bit of ground. Yeah. Who was your opponent? In opponent was a man named Greg Raths who's been on the city Council of Mission v A. How here and what did he come after you with? What was his pitch? It was just you know, she is a Democrat. She's a Democrat, and this is Orange County. Yeah, I mean just sort of like like you know, I think there is an attitude that you know, sort of people are entitled to have Republican representation here, but they're entitled to is good representation, right, people who listen to them, people who fight for them, people who are not corrupt, and that can come in you know, democratic or Republican forms. And so the fact that I don't take corporate pack money, that I have grassroots funded, I think that really helped me reach a lot of those independent voters and even Republican voters who are really skeptical, um, including younger Democratic voters who are really skeptical about whether and people in Washington really worked for them. Congressperson Katie Porter, I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to here's the thing from my Heart Radio. If you like conversations about politics, go to our archives from my live show with Nixon, White House and Watergate figure John dene It's after listening to that conversation, I let my fingers do the walking in the criminal code to figure out what in the world are we doing. And I discovered the obstruction statute, and I discovered the conspiracy statute, and I realized we're in a whole lot of trouble. Now. You might have thought that for reaction would be to run for the Hills. I mean, I had exactly the opposite reaction. That's when I doubled down. That's when I try to make the cover up work. Here more of my conversation with John Deane in our archives at Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, I talked to Katie Porter about what surprised her when she got to Washington in early two thousand nineteen. I'm Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's the Thing. I wanted to know how Katie Porter won her seat. People people send me money, How much do you spend? I spent six million dollars to raise six million from individual contributory, spent six million UM and I spent six million. TV is incredibly expensive here. I have to advertise to all of Los Angeles UM and all of Orange County UM, even though I just represent a little part of a part of Orange County. But you know, people will send five dollars, ten dollars, they'll send notes with it. When you got there, what did you think the job was going to be like? And how what did you find out? It was? Really like? I think one thing that surprised me, and I know it's surprised some of my fellow colleagues is how much I really loved doing the work in the district with my constituents here in my home UM, and how much I really didn't like being in Washington. Right. So I ran for Congress because I wanted to make policy. I wanted to make people's lives better, and I think I associated that with things that happened in Washington. But it turns out that a lot of the time you spend in Washington is just scoring back and forth two votes that are sometimes important but sometimes are really like, you know, meaningless, frankly or almost meaningless. And be here in the community was so rewarding. So you know, behind kind of the stucco and the neatly trimmed hedges of Orange County are amazing and interesting businesses and nonprofits and community organizations. So some of the favorite things I've done are I toured UM, a lightweight body armor manufacturer here in Irvine that I had driven down that road a million times taking my kids to the target and never known that right there they are making body armor that keep men and women safe UM, and they're working to design actually special armor that better fits women's bodies UM. And so you know, seeing those little parts and pockets of your community and realizing just how amazing things are around you. You really learned every nook and cranny of your district and what's really going on there. I'm still learning. I absolutely love it. And when you went to Washington, and you talk about the importance of the work that you do within the district, But when you went to Washington, what did you think that was going to be like with your colleagues as so forre than what did it turn out to be. I thought there'd be more substantive policy discussion among regular members. House of Representatives is four hundred and thirty plus people, so it's big. And so it turns out that a lot of things are kind of decided before they get to you, that they're decided by leadership, um that you know, the relevant committee has kind of figured everything out before it comes to you, and you're just in a situation of yes or no on the vote. And I think that's where I saw hearings as this great opportunity because if you're not if you're a newcomer to Congress, you don't have a lot of power, especially on the Democratic side. But we have a strong seniority system. But one of the few equal things about Congress is everybody gets five minutes for their questioning. So I decided I was going to use my five minutes better than anybody else, or as well as I could, to the maximum of kind of my ability. Um. And that's where I found the greatest reward really in. And the thing that's warning for me is it's not the answers that these witnesses give, because they're often really bad answers. It's the American people watch and they see that that lady is asking what I've always wondered, Why do the drugs cost so much? Right? Why does the drug keep getting more expensive? Do you know what the price of Revelement was? I can look it up, but I don't recall. I don't have it in front of me. Four hundred and twelve per pile. I would say approximately seven pill, but again I don't have it in front of me seven nineteen per pill, and today Revelement cost seven hundred and sixty three dollars per pill. I'm curious did the drug get substantially more effective in that time? Did cancer patients need fewer pills? She's asking about me, And that's really for me than the most rewarding part. You were a single mom where you got divorced when you're your kids are how old now? They're now fifteen, twelve, and nine. So you were a single mom now for almost a decade. And do you maintain because I know that we one of the things you focus on is about all the women that are losing jobs. We're losing a lot of women in the workplace because of the COVID correct, absolutely huge issue. What are some of the legislation you might or might not propose to address that. So when I was elected in the last Congress, at that time, I was the only single mother of young children to serve. Since then, the Republicans have elected one. But you know, this idea of the single household, the single parent household, isn't well represented in Washington, to put it mildly, So when we talk about issues like child poverty, one of the reasons for that is women, single women, single mom, single dads trying to raise a family on one income. Um. What happens financially to families when they get divorced um, it's you know, it's very difficult. And so when we see right now, what we know is about of women have left the work or since the pandemic. A lot of those are lost jobs. Some of them are women who are leaving because they're putting a position to choose between taking care of their kids who are out of school, remote learning um or you know, having to go to work and leave their kids home alone. This has long term implications not just for women's economic opportunities and child poverty, but also for our economy as a whole. If we're a capitalist economy, we need our best and brightest doing the work, competing for the jobs, and that means men and women, people of different backgrounds, all having an opportunity to be in the workplace. And in our country, we're losing a lot of women out of the workforce and that's going to have big implications for our global competitiveness. It's not just a women's issue. We all benefit from a strong, healthy economy. One of my favorite phrases, and I use it all the time with my staff is by the ticket, take the ride right. And this actually applies to capitalism too. If we want to say, and you hear these people who are uber capitalists, they're they're anti government, they're worried about this they're they're throwing up this ridiculous specter of socialism. Well, guess what inherent in capitalism is equal opportunity to compete. And that's true about antitrust enforcement, but it also has to be true about social mobility. It has to be that that you're not allowing things like race discrimination to taint who you promote in the marketplace. You're paying people not because of the color of their skin, but because of how good they are at their jobs. All these things are perversions of capitalism, and we ought to be standing up for them on that basis, as well as the fact that they're morally apprehensible. Now, obviously, we have a graduated income tax in this country. The more money you make, the more you pay in taxes. Why isn't the same principle applied to these trillion dollar COVID relief bills, Meaning why are we giving a single penny to a family that's making over two ud? Okay, great question. So I want to push back on a couple of things. One is you said we have a graduated income tax. I want to push back on that and say, we theoretically have a graduated income tax. Okay, that's what it says on paper when you look it up in the little back of the I R S booklet. If you still do your taxes on paper, but in actuality, people who earn a lot often pay a lower effective tax rate because we have loopholes. We have problems in our tax system, and so we need to close that gap because a lot of people who are running around talking about how they're in the highest tax bracket aren't paying taxes in that higher bracket because of capital gains, because of all kinds of other things. The other issue with regard to COVID relief is, look, we definitely want to focus the help where it is needed, but we also cannot be so focused on making sure that nobody gets any help that they don't need that we slowed the whole thing down, and we ultimately allow people to die and to suffer while we're waiting around, and there are people in the very expensive areas where they were spending all of their money need to make ends meet. Now boom childcare, you have kids childcare. For my daughter Betsy, when she went to the University of California Irvine, childcare cost more than it would have for her to have been an undergraduate at u c I childcare. One year preschool was more than it would have been for her to be an undergraduate. So, all of a sudden, when you have all these kids out of school, people's expenses are going up, even if their income may be stable. So we have to think about the entire the entire effect here. And here's the main thing I have to say to people. COVID relief is the financially and fiscally responsible thing to do. If we get this wrong, it will set our economy back for a decade or more. Little bit of depressure. Howard Dean was on the show the other day and said the same thing. I said, do you think we're running a risk by printing trillions of dollars? He said, the problem will be if we don't spend that money. Absolutely, we have to invest it wisely. We have to make sure we're putting it into programs that are working. We have to root out fraud, waste, and abuse. Um. You know. So, I think it's ridiculous, for example, that we passed a paycheck protection program, a p p P program for small businesses that allowed Congress members to get loans. That's nuts. That's a mistake in the program, But our biggest risk here is not doing enough and leaving people mired a long term poverty and hardship, out of the workplace with atrophying skills, when other countries are not making that same mistake. So obviously the current senator there Padilla is an appointee interim because Harris and other vice president. Do you think that that's his seat to hold onto or does the congresswoman have other ideas about her future in California politics. I'm really excited about Alex Padilla representing me and my family UM in the Senate, and I've contributed to his reelection campaign already. UM. You know, I think he's gonna be a wonderful partner and a really important voice for California. UM. He has an amazing life story, he went to m I t he's incredibly smart. So I think you can safely paint me as a fan of Alex Pidia and somebody who's really excited about working with him. He just got added to the Senate Banking Committee, UM yesterday, so I told my staff, like, call him up, let's start working on bills together. Do you think that you have what it takes to serve in the Senate. What do you think you're better off where you are in the Congress. Oh, look, wherever you put me, I'm gonna fight for the American people. I'm gonna I mean, this is when I as a professor. I became a professor to understand what was wrong with our laws and how we could make it better. When I'm in the House, that's what I'm thinking about, what's wrong, how can we make it better. It's gonna be the same thing whether I would be in the administration, Um, whatever I go on to do after this, Um, you know, these are the fundamental questions. The fundamental question that has motivated my life is how do we achieve economic prosperity for all Americans? And I'm going to keep asking that question whatever job I'm in. H And you know, I kind of mean, Look, the house is fun, it's scrappy. Um, it's a little bit chaotic, you're right, Um, But you know, whenever I've gone I've always tried to make the most of what I've gotten. Um. And so you know, whatever the future holds, I'm pretty sure I'm going to still be asking tough questions. The Honorable Katie Porter, if you're enjoying this conversation, be sure to subscribe to Here's the Thing on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, please leave us a review. I really appreciate it. When we come back, Katie Porter talks about why Trump must be convicted by the Senate. I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the Thing from my Heart Radio. When protesters stormed the US Capitol building on January six, Katie Porter wasn't far from the insurrection. I was on the capital grounds. Um, in my office, which is not in the Capital. Which house building are you in? Long Worth? In Long Worth and more as AOC has now memorialized it, the dunkin Donuts building, which was actually a factor and why I picked that. Um, it's very handy to be able to go get coffee in the morning. But um, I was in my office and Alexander Kasier Cortez. I passed her in the hallway as I went into my office, and you know, she kind of you know, she waved, and a few seconds later she came back and knocked on the door and said can I come in? And I said, of course, And you know, she came inside, she was obviously very rattled. There had been a bomb threat in her building. I didn't know that at the time, UM. And so we sheltered together, along with a couple of staffers for about four or five hours, six hours in my office, barricaded the doors, turned the lights off, pulled the windows, silenced the phones, just in the cold, um and the dark, you know, worried that what was going on at the Capitol where there were cameras watching. What you can't see is that there are underground tunnels connecting the Capital to our office buildings. If the attackers had come down those tunnels, we would not have known they were coming. Um. And so we just stayed barricaded in there for hours and didn't know what was happening. And when you look back on it, now, what do you think should happen? Oh, to protect us? I mean, look, we have to. We have a real problem in this country with misinformation, with with violence. UM. You know, our democracy is strong, but it is not unshakable, UM. And this was this was a powerful kind of I think earthquake a powerful shake, um to our democratic principles. So I think we have to reaffirm that it's okay to disagree, so okay to have different ideas. I represent Range County. I represent a lot of constituents that I disagree with. Um, that's okay, that's healthy. But violence in a democracy is never okay. You voted to impeach Trump, I did twice, and the Senate is not going to convict you know, I think they should convict him. I think that this is and I think too many people are thinking about this just from the native angle about Trump. But we have a rule of law in this country, and part of that rule of law is precedent. So what we are doing here is saying this conduct was not acceptable and if anyone and it's not who we are. So if you're wondering future president whether you can act like President Trump did, the answer is no, you will be impeached. This is illegal. So we need to set that precedent and establish that boundary. I would have bet you everything I own at the onset of Trump's administration that it never would have ended this way. I mean, it ends. His political legacy ends on this note, one of destruction and hate and lawlessness and stuff with which which defines you know, I've always said that the government's purposes to do the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people. This is not some concierge service to help wealthy Americans. And I'm wondering, what's the change you'd like to see in the campaign finance laws that will help clean that up. Yeah. No, corporate pack money is a huge part of it. Citizens United saying companies are are people, right, So, you know, reversing Citizens United, stopping corporate pack contributions or at least forcing corporations to disclose them to shareholders and justify how this actually provides any value to the corporation. Um. I think that's really important. I think campaign finance generally, you know, I think small dollar contributions are great because you know, five dollars a dollar, you know, volunteering your time, people can feel themselves part of democracy, part of the process. Um. But you know, until we clean that up, until we clean up some of the corruption, it's going to be really hard. I think it's the source of all of the problems to this country, source of all of the problems. Which committee do you want to You're on one exclusive committee. I was at an exclusive committee lust Congress, which is financial Services you're not there anymore. I'm not there anymore. And now I'm on. I was on Financial services, and then later in the year I got added to oversight when they were openings. So now I'm on I could doing on the Oversight Committee. I'm really excited about that. I love that oversight UM and I like doing it for all different kinds of areas, everything from you know, Pentagon spending two pharmaceuticals to car seats UM, to civil liberties UM. And then I'm now joined the Natural Resources Committee, which has jurisdiction over public lands, over tribal lands, all the drilling on public lands, UM, oceans and wildlife. So you know, I said the other day, polluters, I have questions, UM. So I'm really excited about that, and it's incredibly important issue in California. It's important to our global competitiveness in the future. The company, the economy, the nation that has manufacturing jobs in the next decade will be the country that figures out how to manufacture in a green way. We need that to be us. Bobby Kennedy Jr. Used to say, let's force them to bring their products to market at their actual cost. What are the American people really paying for a gallon of gas. You throw the PCBs in the Hudson River and we have to clean it up. That be a part of the cost of your thing. The woman who studied bankruptcy law at Harvard with Elizabeth Warrener, you saw you out of the Finance committe anymore? Sure, I'm definitely sorry. I mean I asked to serve because I wanted to. Um. I want to continue working on those issues, and I hope there'll be an opportunity for me to fill a vacancy in the future. UM to get back to that committee. UM. You know, I'm excited to be on the Economic and Consumer Protection Subcommittee of Oversight. UM. I'm gonna keep doing a lot of work on financial services issues from that. So absolutely wish I were on. What happened? You know, they just they had so many spots, they voted people on and off. I was one of two people who didn't get it. Um, you know, eight or ten people did get it. Other people were chosen, other people were chosen. But you know what, like, remember what I said about I've been underestimated a lot when I went on. Now people are like, oh, well, she can't go off financial services. Financial services where all the hot committee action is. Trust me, when I went on financial Services, everyone was like, oh my god, that's the most boring committee. No one's gonna pay attention to you. Let's go to Duncan Donut. Right. So wherever I go, I'm going to try to engage the American people. And I don't think there is a bad committee in Congress. These are all important. Well let me just say, I really mean this. People who really are so disheartened. I mean they're crushed and demoralized by the inefficiency of the American government. They've lost faith. And then along you come, and all my friends who see you, you know what they are. They're proud of you. They're so proud of you because they get when you're there. You're not there for the self aggrandizing. You're doing this because you care and you take the job seriously and you and you're finding and honing a way to use the job the office as a tool. You're honing a tool to do the work you want to do on behalf of the American people. So thank you so much, thank you, oh absolutely, thank you so much for having me us representative Katie Porter. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the Thing is brought to you by by Heart Radio. We're produced by Kathleen Russo, Carrie donohue and Zach McNeice. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Thanks for listening.

Here's The Thing with Alec Baldwin

Award-winning actor Alec Baldwin takes listeners into the lives of artists, policy makers and perfor 
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