Don Lemon Writes About God

Published Oct 22, 2024, 4:00 AM

One need not look very far to see that the television landscape has rapidly changed in the last few years, with an influx of new streaming platforms and shifting audience viewing patterns. Another notable upheaval: In 2023, Don Lemon, the Edward R. Murrow and Emmy Award-winning journalist and longtime host of “CNN Tonight with Don Lemon,” was let go from CNN after seventeen years with the network. Following his exit, Lemon took time for introspection, resulting in his new book, “I Once Was Lost: My Search for God in America.” The work is a deeply personal exploration of his spiritual journey and the role of religion in the country. It is Lemon’s third book, following “Transparent” and the #1 New York Times bestseller “This Is The Fire: What I Say to My Friends About Racism.” Earlier this year, the anchor launched his new endeavor, “The Don Lemon Show,” on YouTube and podcast platforms. Host Alec Baldwin speaks with Don Lemon about the shakeup at CNN, the role of his faith in trying times and the importance of the press and the First Amendment in a free society.

This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing from iHeart Radio. The last few years have seen drastic changes in the rapidly evolving landscape of cable and streaming television. You know the times have changed when even the news is making news. At CNN, there were reports of chaos and uncertainty, the sudden resignation of President Jeff Zucker, followed by the installation of his successor, Chris Licked, and drastic changes to their lineup. One of the biggest changes moving my guest Today. CNN Tonight anchored Don Lemon to Mornings after a decade in prime time. Shortly after, Lemon made some controversial comments on air and was unceremoniously fired from the network seventeen years into his tenure. Now, he has released a book, I Once Was Lost My Search for God in America, a day deeply personal journey of his faith through difficult times that also takes a hard look at politics and religion in America today. The Emmy winning journalist launched a new series earlier this year, The Don Lemon Show, on streaming podcast platforms and on YouTube. I wanted to know how he made the decision of where to launch his new show.

YouTube is the number one network in the world. It has surpassed Netflix. It's because everyone has that computer in their pocket, and that is the new television. It's the same thing you watch it, but it's just a different form of distribution. So if I can go there, create content and pretty much do exactly what I want to do, why not?

And that's why I chose YouTube.

Also, Alec, I have some contractual obligations. As you know, you're in the business, you have non competes and all of that. So I had to find a place where I could go and do what I do and create my cable non network that doesn't compete with my contract at the old place.

Now I want to touch on that, I'm going to We've got two things here, obviously, career and faith. The book is called I Once Was Lost, and I went to your book signing event where you were interviewed by Zucker, who was very funny. By the way, I was surprised. He's very good. So you go to YouTube overcly there's a non compete aspect in there, but to describe your career in television and when that ended, what ended? You started at CNN. What year two thousand and six and you started doing what I started.

As let's see, Oh wow, it's been so long ago. Two thousand and six. I was the afternoon anchor on CNN Newsroom from one to four in the afternoon, And you did that for how long? I did that for about eight years or so?

Eight years?

Yeah, yeah, thirteen to fourteen. I moved on.

I moved to New York.

I was in Atlanta, and you move on to do what show? I moved on to do. I did weekend evenings for a while to sort of create, you know, get my own voice, develop my own voice. And then Jeff Souker took over and said, hey, you're pretty talented. Who was in charge of before Zucker Jim Walton was ahead of the network here, and Zuker took over, and he wanted you want in the evening? He put you on in the evening. Yes, I went to Zucker because I did. I hated Atlanta and I'm a New Yorker even though I grew up in Louisiana, I'm a New Yorker by heart. And I said, hey, listen, it's been great working here. I'm out of here, I said, I can't live in Atlanta anymore. So thanks, you know, I'm glad you just took over the network. Blah blah blah blah he said, he said, yeah, he said, you don't have to You're moving to New York.

And that was it. And you did the evening on the weekends, and then you did your evening show starting when how long was he so weekends?

I did the evenings on the weekends for a while. I think I did the evenings for you know, five years. Look the afternoon, I'm sort of, you know, sort of mixing that in the evening because I started the evening in Atlanta and then I continue the evening in New York. And Jeff would sort of mentor me, you know, because he's he watched twenty four hours a day, so breaking news tell you. He would say, breaking news, I need you to stay on for another hour. We're going to blow out the medical ship and need you to stay on and do this, repeat the breaking news.

You know.

Or he didn't coach about style, No, no, not at all, because he liked my style.

He liked me being me.

He's he would if anything, he would say, lean into it, so he would say, you know, recap, tell the audience you know it's breaking news, what it is. He wouldn't tell me what to say. He would say a good question might be something like this, and I wouldn't ask it, you know, exactly as he would say if I wanted to do it. But he wouldn't get upset if I didn't do it.

So you could do audibles like quarterbacks.

Yes, I could. And then he started. I had me filling in on every single show. I'd fill in the afternoon, I'd fill in the morning, I would do my evening show, and he would send me on big stories and he was he really developed me.

And you started doing your show, the big show, the evening show.

Win I started doing my show. Aaron Burnett went out on maternity leave and Jeff said, I want you to take over for her from maternity leave. So her entire couple months she was off, I filled in seven o'clock show. It was me and I did my weekend show. So I was working seven days a week and I didn't mind it.

I loved it. Actually, you're doing the mornings, and you're doing and morning shows, which have become so bizarre to me, I know, I said to people, and I love all these people. I mean, I love Katie Cork. But the last time I watched the Today Show was when Katie Cork was on with lour and they did a I guess maybe it was for Halloween. They all dressed up and clothing and they sang diamonds are a Girl's best friend as she's walking down a staircase, a glittering staircase or whatever, and I thought, I'm done. I don't know, I want the news, maybe tell some jokes or whatever. But they turned it into an entertainment show. But mornings it's obviously a different ball game. Even weekends, maybe you're a different ballgame. So what adjustments do you have to make in your style to be on in the evening?

Oh well, I'm an evening guy. The only reason I did the mornings is because and you told me, you know, when I did the she said, no one wants to see you in the morning, And you were right. I'm not a morning person. I'm not very good in the morning. I'm not good on coffee. Caffeine makes me jittery. I don't know what I'm saying or doing. So I did it because my company asked me to do it, and I was being a team player, but it was not a good fit for me. The adjustment is is that you're constantly sleeping. You have to get up. I'm a night oul. I don't him to go to bed until two or three in the morning, and I'm up at you know, maybe ten right before I would you know, i'd have to wake up when I mean, when I was doing the mornings, I have to wake up at four in the morning, right, I know it'll be It was really, really tough. So that's really the adjustment. I'm a cool cat at night. I like it, and I like that that late time slot. Working at night, I do too, and I get my best idea yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do movies.

And the guy said to me, we're in a black box theater shooting this movie for all these scenes inside this theater for a month in Florida. And he says, so, no windows, know nothing, no light dependent at all. He goes, we can shoot whenever we want. He goes, what time you want to go to work? Love it? And I said, none, I'm going to shooting noon to midnight. Yeah. We did. We shot noon to midnight for four weeks and I was in heaven. I was like, man, I'm just getting going.

Yeah, I like about seven or eight at night, like my best work. I don't wake up that late, but my best work is at night. So having that ten o'clock slot was perfect for me. And then you know, I was on until midnight every night, but that was when I would get that energy.

And you like being solo. Oh, I love the co anchors for a while. It's tough you didn't like that format. No, I'm a team player, but not in that way. I have my own flow and everybody can't keep up with me, you know, and and doubles tennis, they're not the best partner. Yeah, at your game, and you got to you gotta have a good part of that. You have to have someone who can keep up with you.

And you know, I don't mean that in a you know, I'm not diminishing anyone, but someone like a Kara Swisher personal Yeah, like someone like a Kara Swisher or a Joy Behar or someone they could keep up with me. They get my sense of humor and they don't take anything personally and they can give it or take it as good as they give it, right, you know what I mean?

I love that kind of but they didn't want to demonize or criminalize your moderances.

No, because they they under they they their pals and they get me.

It's not personal.

It's just we're just we're just sitting having a conversation and people say all kinds of things and conversations and it's not personal.

It's just your talking. And when you talk, you say things and you.

Go, ah, I don't mean that, Okay, all right, right, so I said some shit, that was great, whatever, and you just move on. But you can't do that with everybody, because you know, especially like younger folks, everything is like a personal affront.

Well, you walk in on the set of a project, and when you're around young people, I find that there's a potential for certain difficulties. So I've never had any problems with this myself. I never had any I've had other problems obviously, but not that one. And you walk onto the set, especially of a film, and you're there and people they're tents. You don't realize how tense there. They're scared younger people. You come on and there. I mean, I've made whatever number of movies, I made one hundred movies, ninety movies, whatever. I take pictures with people now, But I got taught by somebody famous. You put your arm out and they hook their elbow around your elbow, and they go, why do you want to do that? A few of them would say, and I say, I can't put my hand behind your body, and you got it. My hand can't be hidden behind your back in the photogo all the games you got to play now? Which are which? Was not concerned?

No, but you're right about that. You said you've done so many movies. I had been. I think I was doing the afternoons from six about nine, and then I started doing the weekend evenings, and so I'd been doing the weekend evenings. I'd been solo, I should say, from about two thousand and nine to twenty twenty three or twenty twenty two, and so I was just used to my own flow and people, you know, were used to me just being me, and so I had been there for quite some time solo anchor. And you know, people come in and they're like they you know, they don't get it.

You know, now when you do a show like that for people who don't know, because I find this behind the scenes very interesting. You come in there you come in. The show was on the air at ten. The big show was on a ten. He did the pass too with Chris, and then everybody thought that was very entertaining the two of you.

It's the biggest compliment that people say about that and about my show. They say that was the last appointment television for the network. Was that handoff and then going on the show.

Yeah. But the thing that people don't understand is you get there what time?

It would depend. If I had a pre tape, I would go in earlier. But at the end I moved across the street from the office, so it would take me literally a minute, minute and a half to be on the set because I lived and it was in huts and yards. So I would go to work probably about eight eight thirty.

So You're out there at three o'clock writing.

No, I'm doing that from home, got it because basically my office is not much further from the set than my home was. But before that, I would probably get to work about six, right And the reason I did that part of it was because of Jeff. Jeff said, why are you working on the show so early?

Your show?

Why are you guys in the morning meeting the morning meetings at nine in the morning. Your show is twelve hours away, a half a day away. Everything's going to change exactly, So what are you doing? And I found that when I would study for all of this stuff and just study, study, study, and over prepare, and then by the time the show came about at ten o'clock, it would be a whole different show.

And I'd say, why the hell didn't know? Would I do this? You got to be more plod set, to learn to be nimble. Now you're there doing a show like that. How much do director I'm talk about technical directors with cameras in a studio? Are the directors, segment producers, writers? Who's got your ear in terms of content while you're doing the show? So it's my executive producer? And how many of those did you have when you were on the big show?

I had one executive producer who is and then Maria Spanella, and then I had my own personal producer, and then there were segment producers. And so if there was a segment that someone had prepared and they needed to be in the control room, usually they stood there anyways, and so the segment producer would get in my ear. But usually it was the executive producer, but sometimes they would say, you know, I would say it was nineteen times and they'd go ninety ninety and I'm going because sometimes you don't realize what you say right. You'll just read something wrong or you just say something wrong, and so they would correct me. But it was mostly the director and the executive producer, and mostly the director who would say, okay, thirty seconds out, ten seconds out camera two, so start on camera two and I'm going to turn you to three. Stand by, you know, the whole thing, three two and go camera one, turn and then you do that that sort of thing, right, And then you know, they would say yeah, and you'd say you know, and it's fourteen people and they'd say graphic and I'd go, take to look at your screen, that it's up on the screen right now, blah blah blah blah blah, and then you talk about blah. And then they'd say on cam and then I'd look back up and go, okay.

Then just someone's directing your performance. Yeah, directing.

They just just to know where I'm going.

Technically, right, but they're directing your your tone or no.

If I was off on something, someone would say she says something she'd say like, all right, watch it up, wastch your tone? Yeah, or yeah, you're you're dragging a little bit.

Are you tired?

Whatever you want us to bring? You want us to bring your coffee, diet coke or something, yeah, Or I'm gonna send makeup in. You're shiny, but that sort of thing. That's it small small.

Now I'm assuming that when Licked comes in, this is just zas Love wants things his way. This is his magiem it's now it's going to be my CNN. So Zucker's gone and he brings Licked in and when Zucker's gonna gone? How much advanced notice did you have the Zuker was leaving? Oh that I mean that was in the news, right, so not much. Did you know when he was going to be gone and someone else was coming in who was going to run the company? You didn't know.

No, no one, no one, No one gave you what any dance. No, it was in the it was in the morning meeting. When it happened. I was in La, and I forget what I was doing. It made have an award season or something.

I forget.

I was in La doing a project for the network, and I took the Red Eye and I got home and went to sleep, and I woke up to a lot of text messages and I was like, wait, what is this. It always happens that way. That happened that way when when Chris was let go, Chris linked and my executive Priss said, don Jeff just resigned in the morning meeting, and I was like, wait what And then he called me and he said I didn't have a chance to tell you whatever, blah blah blah. And you know, he called everybody afterwards, but he did. I don't think he really had any notice himself, right, Yeah.

Well, I kind of equate him. This is just my opinion, by the way, which is meaningless, but I kind of equate him with Ronnie Meyer when they let Ronnie Meyer go for similar reasons his personal life, and you want to sit there and you want to go, well, I'm running a company now and I'd like this guy to go, and that's my excuse to let him go. And I really was going to bring in another guy because I want my I want to run my CNN, but he's gone, like Universal, I think Ronnie Meyer hit the point where he was making like forty million dollars a year, and.

They were like, no, yeah, we need you to go. Look, I'll let you say that. But you're a smart guy. So but here, you know, Jeff is the last of a TV executive, the celebrity TV executive Mavericks. Right, everyone is so risk averse now they're afraid, you know, they're with the stockholders wanting all that. He really protected us from the overlords, right from the corporate you know overlords. He really did his guts, his guts and he's like, you know, this is journalism. I understand what you do because he did what they did, right. He ran NBC and he understood it. But he's really a journalist at heart because he started at the Today Show and he started in the news person there. He had a good run there, and then he went to run the news division at NBC, and then he entertainment. Then he ran the entire network. So he really and we didn't realize it, you know, until he was gone.

When Licked comes, like most executives, I assume when you're the top tier talent on the show that they come with. Is it like dinners and whining and dining and getting to know each other and everything's well and you don't really know where it's going to go, and then it goes the wrong way. Yeah, there's a little of that. Yeah, there's a little of that. It's polite, it's polite, yeah in the beginning. Yeah, and then things changed, right. Well, I mean I just find that odd because I just feel like I won't name names, but I've known a couple of people who are execs at film studios, especially TV, where the that conveyor belt is moving and they can't press pause. They have a plan which seems to be everybody's plan.

Now.

Years ago it was a plan. Now it's everybody's plan, which is, if I can't raise revenue, I got to cut costs. So it's just a lot of firing, a lot of budget cutting.

But don't you think to a certain extent that when your job is protected and mentioned in the First Amendment, that there should be some exemption from that whole thing. Like I don't think the news division should be solely or wholly in large part driven by revenue and numbers, numbers and ratings. It shouldn't because you're supposed to give information, you're supposed to hold people who are in power hold into account.

But you told me that when we were at the book party. I raised my hand, I asked the question. I said, the networks and traditional media, mainstream media, have they lost young people? And you said, they haven't lost, but they're losing. And then you went on to talk about the people who are considered through some research who quoted to being about being the most informed people get their news from where.

They get their news digitally? Right, Yeah, and listen, the older people get their news from you know, they watch, they sit they they watch cable news all day, they watch six thirty or they you know, they're watching the morning shows or they're doing that. Younger people are getting their news on TikTok or whatever. But the most informed people are they'll go on digitally. They'll watch something on YouTube, They'll watch whatever, even if they go to you know, Twitter or TikTok or whatever. But then they'll do their research and they are media literate and more media savvy. I find the people who sit in front of the television all day have an unconscious or built in bias because you can tell from whatever network they're watching. But by the time they get to the arguments around the table, the panels they don't know what they actually came there for, what the point of the whole segment was.

That's what they conveyed to me. Well, the shows which are moderated shows, which are these s mash pits, and everybody's going at it. I think more and more people that realize now that it's not worth their time. I always say to people, what do I watch? I said, I watch Wolf Blitzer straight. I call them straight no chaser, right, right, right, it's just like happening now. Just tell me what the stop stories are and then I want to go have dinner with my wife. You know, give me ten fifteen minutes on my couch. I watched in every night. Every night, Yeah, watch Blitzer. I watch MSNBC only when I come home. I watched Blitzer. I go to dinner, I come back and I watch Lawrence O'donaldy. Yeah, every night.

I like Lawrence, I like Rachel I like But I think it's different when you're in primetime, as you know, it's just like when you do you know, in primetime you just sitcoms or whatever. It's different than something that's on during the day, right, And I think it's the same thing with cable news. Now, I don't believe that. For networks, that's a different thing. You got six thirty and it's straight, no chaser, good evening and we're gonna start in Afghanistan and whatever it is. And then but at night, if you're watching cable, it's more of a personal experience and it's a longer sort of flow. And people they wanted to be appointment television, and they wanted to be someone familiar with, someone they trust, someone who can actually maybe tell them a little bit how they feel. People would say, I wasn't sure about it. Dom then I watched you and I said, you know what, that guy's right, and I think that's okay. I don't agree with everything, hardly anything that Sean Hannity says, but he's perfect for a primetime cable show, right, he's and he's a star.

I don't little O'Reilly. We had a great delivery, and he was a real broadcaster. I didn't agree with the word he said either.

I've always said that about Bill O'Reilly. He's a great performer. And I would watch him and I would take notes and go that guy is good and the same thing, and people are gonna, you know, gonna go, Oh my gosh, I can't believe he said that. Same thing with Megan Kelly, I don't agree with anything she says. She's turned out to me the biggest troll and she flipped up. Oh my gosh, it's embarrassing.

I went to a book party of first with my wife, but when she.

Was the same we were at that same party. Yeah, on the rooftop of a hotel somewhere eeah. But she at that time, I think she was on at eight or nine o'clock or whatever at night.

She was perfect for that hour.

She's a great performer. She comes on and she's energy whatever, and you know, the morning Speaking of people being out of position, the morning show is not her position, I believe, just like it wasn't. I was in in position as well. And that's the thing about a good media or news executive. They know what positions people should be playing, so you need that sort of a personality. Same thing with Chris.

Chris is a star.

He's great for cable news at night. Chris Cuomo, he's great for cable news at night. I thought I was great for cable news at night, you know, and people wanted to tune in. They wanted to tune into us. Rachel Maddow perfect cable news host.

But I think that people when I watch news, having grown up and having had news having a very sacred place in my life. It was sacred. The news was very important to me. And now when I see the news, it's just weird. There's a chemistry. You have to have a chemistry with that person, you know, like I used to listen to He's a good friend of mine. I love Kurt Anderson. And when Kurt had that show Studio three sixty on NPO, I loved that show. That was my favorite podcast, along with This American Life for Kurt Anderson.

And you don't feel you have that connection to any of the news folks with you.

I love watching you on TV. I'm not just saying that I thought you were great. I mean were you had the right chemistry. I mean beyond you being a handsome guy and being stylish and being this and that. Thank you, but you had a great delivery. It was really it was easy to watch you where there's people that I watch and I go.

Well, maybe a little less of you, But it's the same thing with knowing who's a good reporter and who's a good anchor. Very few people can do both, and people don't realize it. They don't understand that like anchoring a show, it's another world. It's not easy and you have to hold someone's attention. But I think now in this day and age, people think that, Okay, they're a good reporter, so therefore they're a good anchor, and I disagree with that. You can have someone who can anchor a show who is not necessarily the best journalists in the world, but they're interesting. But when there are big breaking news stories, then you throw to the person who's the good report.

The YouTube thing is on what time? Now, you're on the air? One I'm on the air.

Well, it lives forever on YouTube. But I do a five o'clock show every day, which was not how I envisioned doing it. I do a five o'clock live show every day where I just talk to the subscribers and talk to them about things that's happening and what they should know before they know go home or have dinner. But then I just started one at ten am, which is sort of a hot topic show where I'm trying to get away from the politics, you know, and the hard news and do things that are a little lighter. But everything in the zeitgeist now is politics. You know, they're eating the dogs or eating the cats. That goes over. You know, it also bills over.

Author and anchor Don Lemon. If you enjoy conversations with famous broadcasters, check out my episode with the legendary Dan Rather.

When the first faint edge is what we came to know is Watergate, you can do e merge. I was skeptical that it would reach the Oval Office itself. You never met anybody who had more respect for the office or the presidency in the United States than I do. It was very difficult for me to accept that the president himself would be involved in any way. However, as time went along, facts begin to first whisper, then they begin to speak in full voice, and then the facts begin to shout. It isn't just lower level campaign operatuities, It isn't just lower level members of the administration that this probably goes into the Oval Office itself.

To hear more of my conversation with Dan Rather, go to Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, Don Lemon tells us how a tragic event led to him rethinking his relationship with God and with his faith. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing. Don Lemon's new book, I Once Was Lost My Search for God in America details his very personal examination of his faith. But this is not Lemon's first foray in the publishing world.

I've written three books. This is a fire debut at number one New York Times during the George Floyd thing when that all happened in twenty twenty one.

And the first thing I said to you when I came backstage to just give you a quick carg at the book party was you should write another book.

And I'm like, God, oh know, man, it's tough, Alec, It's so tough, and you don't know, you know it was. It was easier in the sense. What was easier was the selling of the book, when I had that big engine behind me of CNN, where I could mention at any moment, you know, it's in my book, and by the way, you can go buy it and blah blah blah blah blah. Or in the commercial break, I would say throw my book up, and as we go to commercial and say, by the way, my book is on sale and you can get it at Barnes and Noble or any local book store. They were fine, that would help them, and so I was able to do that with that book. I can't do with this book. I have to sell this book, which is good for you know.

I don't mind.

I can't do it on YouTube. Ye of course I do it on YouTube. I think some people are getting sick of it. But writing it is hard. It's like you're putting your heart out there. It's like you're wearing your heart outside of your body, not in the way that you have kids. But you don't know how people are going to receive it, if they're going to trample on, if they're going to trash you, if it's going to sell. It's just the whole thing.

And you know it's more personal than anything you might do because it's you and you don't I make a movie. Somebody else is directing the movie. Yeah, what I mean? Now, you come from a I don't want to say religious, so that you use the word. You want to describe the family you came from in terms of faith.

Well, I came from a family who was faithful. Let's put it that way. They had faith. My mother was not as churchy, as they say, as my aunt was. She's got Alzheimer's now a holy roller. You know, she'd never missed a sermon. She was on the usher board and all of that stuff. My mom was in the choir, but she wasn't quite as religious as her the rest of her family, but my grandmother was as well. You know, they were members and you pay their dues. I'm sure my mom still pays dues for the church. She just doesn't go as often as as you know, one would think. But I went to I grew up Baptist. I would go to church, and then I'd go to Sunday Bible School in the Baptist Church, and then I'd go to vacation Bible School in the summer in the Baptist Church. And during the week during the school year, I went to the Catholic school and we would do Catechism, and then we'd have Mass on Friday every Friday, and then if it was a special holiday, we'd have Mass then. And then in the morning we would line up like a military school, hand out front of the hands on the shoulder, and we'd line up by height, and then we'd have the announcement and we'd do the Star Spangled banner and the pledge allegiance, and then we would pray, and then we'd go to class in lines like a military school. And then you would before you go to recess or whatever you talked about in the book howbouch you liked pray? I liked it because it was because it gave you discipline and you had a regiment and we're part of something. You were part of something, and there was a stability there that you had. You know, Okay, we got to go to the recess. We stand up, we pray that we're going to be safe at recess, and then we all line up and we go down to the yard and we have the recess, and then we come back. And then before we went to lunch, we'd pray, you know, over our meal, and then we come back and we pray whatever. So and then if an adult enter the class, you'd say good afternoon, mister ball went, and you'd stand up, and we did not sit down until mister Baldwin would say you were told to good afternoon class.

You may be seated, you may be seated. It was a different world, amazing, right, you know my faith. I'm a Catholic and I'm still Catholic, and I go to church periodically. I go into waves and I go to hear that man speak. Yeah, I'm in Los Angeles and Father Torchisen, who was the head guy there at Saint Monica's, I go hear him speak. I go went to the city and go to Blessed Sacrament on seventy first Street off of Broadway, and watched this a couple of guys speak. But my guys in East Tampton who came out for the swing mass in the summertime. So I go down in the summer and I get my community and I wait for him as he came out of the recessional before everybody else mobbed him, and I said to me, he's alone. I get him a lot. I'd pull him aside from the other people with a recession and I go, I want to do the confession the reconcilly face to face. And he literally he's like this kid from Rosedale Queens. She goes, ah, you want to do that? He goes, oh please, I go no, I want to do that. I want to please. I can't stand that, because are you sorry for what you did in the name of the Father and the son, the onlysp you're absolved. Oh please, don't make me do that. Like we were pals. That's why we're not in that racket anymore. We're friends. And I thought, oh God, I can't believe that much this church has changed. Change. You want to do that? You know you want to do that? Please? He said, get away. I don't want to talk about that nonsense. And I was like, Oh God, who's going to hear my confession on him? See, my friend.

I still can remember my the priest's voices in my We have Father Hines, I can remember his big deep and then we had Father Elwood, and I can just remember. Their voices are stuck in my head because I was in Catholic Church so much.

But I want to switch to this idea that obviously with what I've been through in recent couple of years, this very difficult situation I was dealing with. It was painful on a level I can't even give words do. I literally can't even describe to people how much I suffered from that. And you where is the summoning of your faith in your adult life? And in recent years when there was tough times for you, did you get into digging for help in that direction. Yes I did.

But first of all, I whant to say, I'm happy that that's over. And you know everyone was praying for you, and we all got what was happening, so I can thank you for standing tough.

I really appreciate that.

So, yes, I've always been a faithful person, but as my mother is, I'm not a churchy person, but I'm a believer and I've always prayed and hoped and had faith, and I've had to summon it more often than not. I don't wear it on my sleeve because I don't believe in that. I don't believe in pushing my faith my religion on anyone else, and it's a personal thing for me. I had a crisis of faith in twenty eighteen when my sister died suddenly in an accidental drowning, and that was I started thinking about this, how was she? She was I think fifty nine at the time, and I started to question God, like, why would God do that? You know, it's supposed to be a benevolent God, and I know there are bad things that happened all the time, and you realize that intellectually until something happens to you, right and you go, why did this happen to me? And so I asked why?

Why? Why?

And I dug deep and then I said why not?

And I tried to figure out, you know, why this was why? I read that somewhere, wasn't there quote in the book about someone said well why?

There was a quote in the book. But also I'd heard that before. But also Anderson Cooper's mom, Gloria Bennerbilt, said the same thing. She said, you know, people would go why me, why me?

Why me? Why not me?

And then there was in my family there was a similar sort of saying why not You so figure out why it happened to you? Why this is happening to you, And there's there's a reason, and maybe it's just to make you stronger.

I don't know.

I would much prefer not to go through such things. And so I started questioning, why would God take my sister. She has beautiful kids, she has beautiful grandkids. She was so proud of her grandson, who was a great basketball player, a great football player.

She went every game like what why? Why?

Why son? That happened? And then after I started thinking about this book, and then the George Floyd thing happened, and I had pitched this George Floyd book and no one wanted to buy it. Not George Floyd, but about racism, and no one wanted to buy it. And then you know, the thing happened and everyone's like, can.

You write that book?

And I'm like, okay. So I wrote it and it was number one. But I started having this sort of crisis of faith, and then I started writing the book, and it was going to be sort of this, you know, a coda to the last book, and where I was just going to you know, move from racism and a little bit more into religion. And I was going to interview religious figures and people folks like you, and talk about their faith. And then when I left CNN, it became something else. I think it became a much better and more personal book. So yes, it's a long story short, a long story long. I have had, you know, points in my life where I had to lean on my religion and the Lord, and I don't really talk to people about it.

Yeah, it's interesting when you work in this business. It could be anywhere film and television or news of whatever medium, cable or of streaming network you're around and you said this word a lot on the book cynical. You're around a lot of cynical people.

Yeah, and that's what journalists are generally, right, generally.

You're right there, of course they are. And you sit there and you think, what's it like to go minute to minute through an experience with a bunch of cynical people, Like, was there anybody at work who was faith based even to some degree you could talk about it with? Was it all just family and close friends and tim?

It was all just family and family and close friends, But mostly it was just me Alan, right, I didn't I don't know. It's an inside job. And I remember, you know, things would get so tough because doing what I did was a very stressful. There's a high pressure job, high wire job, every night live and you're like, oh, something comes out of your mouth and there's always something Why did you say this?

Why do you do this?

Other people hate you here, other than mad at you here? You got to give this response here and I'm like, oh my god, Like why most people just go it's nine to five job, they go home. It's like you screwed up up, you know, you round it up, you know, yeah, so and then you get over it and then when that would happen to my sister and all the other things that would happen, I would count. I would say, you know, God got my steps, one, two, three, and I would just count my step. I would take step by step, by step by step, and I would count my steps to the studio sometimes, especially when my sister died, because you never knew when it was going to hit you, and so I would have to like think about things that go, you know, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, steps. Okay, tonight, I'm going to talk about you know, Trump and you know, very fine people on both sides, both sides, and I would just have to keep and I would say, Lord, when I get there, help me see both sides, or help me whatever. And then I would just I would just pay it and say, okay, you know, get the IFB on it. And then I'd say, okay, God, here we go. Just don't let it happen. Don't let me get sad during the middle of a segment of start crying or whatever, and so let me be focused or whatever. And then you know, the music would come up and I would just I would say, and when they would say go, that's when I would snap out.

Of it right with this New Mexico event. I sat there saying to myself, what do you want me to do? There must be something you want me to do, you want me to change, you want me to do this or that. I prayed harder for them to dismiss the case prior on the gun charge, and they denied us. So when I go to trial and I didn't get my way before, and I begged God, I begged, I'll never forget. I watched the crown and the Queen of England is on her knees praying next to her bed, and I go, if the Queen of England can get on her knees and pray, why can't I? And I got on my knees, and sometimes I'm crying, and I go, please, what do you want me to learn from this and do from this? I said, please make this case be dismissed on this charge. And later on it played out the way it played. I go, if you take your hands off the steering wheel and stop white knuckling the steering wheel and trying to control and manage everything, maybe something wonderful with results.

Yes, that was the hand of God. Yeah, Sometimes you just have to say you know, as you said, take your hands off the wheel and just pray that you're going to be okay.

What do you want me to do? I'm okay with whatever you will is show me. So did you let me?

I'm going to be a journalist.

Did it change you? That situation changed me a lot in terms of my feelings about having my children and getting be married and having so many kids, which is something that I you know, I kind of knew what I was doing, and people don't think you do. Then they go, you wake up one morning and somebody goes, oh, h peede on a stick, and oh guess what.

You know?

It's like, it's not all silly, and COVID happened, the strike happened, and overlapping with the strike was also my problem in New Mexico. What it made me do is people would say, my god, now you can get back to your old life, and I go, I don't want to get back in my own lives.

That's what I'm asking you.

This is my life now? Are you kids?

Are you more compassionate?

Yes? If compassion means everybody I meet, I have to say to myself, they're going through somebody. Now I want to switch the topic or to you with fame and bed carpets.

But I understand how you feel, especially about because people when they meet me, they say you're different than what I read about, because people often let their enemies and their detractors define them, and you know, similarly to you, the right wing media hates me, so they write the worst shit about me, And then people meet me who are conservative and even Trump supporters, and they're like, you're not at all like what I read about in the New York Post, and you're like, no, I'm not that person at all.

Is it funny how you can be somewhere in a kind of benign setting. You're walking through a park and with my kids at some store, and you see people and you see the way within under a second, with in a fraction of a second, you see them regard you in a way with their eyes where you who know they're maga Republicans and they're like, oh god, it's him. Yeah. And I go walk into them and their kids playing, and I go, what's this little one's name? And you try to charm them and they're totally freaked out. They're like, my god, I can't normalize you, like I can't handle that right now. You're an asshole and you have to remain an asshole that. I know that very well. Journalist and anchor Don Lemon, If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be sure to follow Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back, Don Lemon shares his thoughts on the cancel deal with Elon Musk and the X platform. Following just one broadcast, I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here is the Thing. Don Lemon's recent wedding to his partner of eight years, Tim Malone, was heavily covered in the press. The pair are often photographed on the red carpet and at stylish events like New York Fashion Week. I wanted to know how a serious newsman navigates his relationship with fame.

That is not why I got into the business, it says, you know, right, And I didn't get into this business thing. I was going to make a lot of money, but you became. But I became famous, And you know what, I'm enjoying my life. I'm happy. And if that fame, if that comes with it. If I get a better table at a restaurant, then so be it.

But does that enjoy it?

Yeah, I'm enjoying it. And there are so many people who came before me who didn't get to do that. And just because I'm a journalist, it doesn't mean that I'm not a person. It doesn't mean that I don't enjoy getting out and meeting people. Doesn't mean that I don't enjoy going on red carpets and going to you know, beautiful events. Why wouldn't I. I'm a human being. I think it's okay. Just because you're a journalist, it doesn't mean that you're not, you know, a full person, a multi dimensional person.

And I am.

And so, you know what, I'm just enjoying my life. I'm grateful that i'm here. I don't know how many days are ahead of me, and while i'm here, I'm going to get the best out of it.

The only reason you're on those red carpets is you're good looking. That's you. I think it's about you. Maybe it's I don't know. I think it's both.

Yes, But I also think I'm there because I am enjoying it. If I wasn't enjoying it, I wouldn't be there. I enjoyed my job. I enjoyed what I you know, my profession and what I did, and I think that that shines through and so I think that that's what made me, you know, a star, so to speak, right in this business.

Even those your warmth, No would I that's important. There's a magic mist that has to exude from you. It has to be admitted by you on camera, whether it comes through your eyes or anywhere you have to convey to your audience. There's no place out. So I'd rather be than here with you right rightly. When you do see that, you go, Hi, I'm Don Lemon, and tonight I want to tell you Oldbeppa.

They're with you, yes, And you know what, I couldn't wait. I would tell them like I couldn't wait to get here to tell you this story today.

So let's go. It's like the journalists equivalent of someone walking up to and going, would you like to dance? Shall we dance? It's an engagement between you when your Yeah. Now, two quick things. One is the election. And I believe that everybody who talks and kind of piles on online or anywhere about Trump is completely wasting their time. What else are there to say about him? Do you believe in polls.

I believe poles are a snapshot in time. I believe in polls less so now than I did before. We all learned our lesson from twenty sixteen and then twenty twenty as well. But I think this time is going to be surprising. I think it's going to be surprising. I think she has a real chance. We had no chance with Biden or I admired, I my operation for him, but he was old. But I think there's a hidden vote for Trump with black men. I think even with some women that you know, they still love him. And I think with college students, I don't I know, and I don't get it either.

I don't get it, but I don't get Also, is it there's a person who came in who knew nothing about government. He held no office, not even a mayoralty, not a governor, or as an executive, not a legislator in Congress or a state house. He knew nothing about government, and he served in the White House for four years and he still doesn't know anything.

So it doesn't know you know what the people are, what they do. We're shocking to me, It shouldn't be shocking. But the folks on his side say she's not qualified and she has no experience, and I'm like, wait, do you know who you're supporting?

Am I Are you insane? She's a senator, vice president, she's the attorney general. She's a bright woman. Yeah, she's everything he isn't. Yeah, all right, Musk, I just want to say with Musk, you know, Musk is like we were joking before you got into the Musk to me is like Howard Hughes meets Mickey Rooney. He's like this loopy, nutty guy that's constantly slamming the door in his hand and screwing himself up public relations wise. But he's also an engineering genius or whatever, and he's made all this money and sold cars, which are one of the most difficult things on earth to do is to create a car and sell it to this country. When you went in to talk to him, I mean, obviously you were poised to work with him or for him at that company and do your show on X and that blew up. But when you were there, did you say to yourself, he's not much different from a lot of other network executives. I know you didn't have any trepidation. Well, let me say this.

I am in ongoing and pending litigation out of him, so I can't really say a lot. But what I can say is that I went into this with the best of intentions, and at first I did not want to do it. It took some cajoling and some convincing, and finally I did. I did not work for him. He was not my boss.

He was not hiring me.

What I had was a content deal with him, a distribution deal where they would have a certain exclusive material for an amount of time and then it would go everywhere.

So you know, why not do it?

Because I wanted to. What I wanted to do was what he and they said, to get on the platform and to be a counter to all of the sort of right wing conspiracy theorists that are out there. And you know that, you know, lasted all of half a day. So it didn't work out. So I feel, you know, it's awful that it didn't work out. It wasn't great for me, wasn't what you hoped. It wasn't what I hoped, But you know, I'd worked with difficult people, but usually that's in within the confines of a business that does not play out publicly like it did. He's a very consequential person to the world, and he has a very big and powerful platform that can affect lives, livelihood and even people's safety, and one I believe must be and should be careful and more responsible with that.

What do you hope people will take from this book?

The biggest thing is that I want people to understand that we don't and shouldn't live in a theocracy, but it's going that way. And if you go through difficult periods, as you well know, if you trust the process, which is really called faith. People always say trust the process, right, which is really faith for me is that it's going to be okay. And if it's not okay, then usually we don't know about it, but usually things work out for the best. And I think it's you have to have the right mentality, and you have to have the right faith, and you have to have people around you who love.

You as you well know as you are, yeah, and love you for who you are.

Love you for who you are and so but I want people to get to know my story. I tell my story alec and America story through the lens of religion and faith in this country. And I wrote this book because of my love for the country and my love for God, and I wanted people to have an insight on how it shaped my life and my world. And I fought against the evangelical teachings that sought to marginalize me.

I want you to read something. You always ask authors to read a piece of their book.

Okay, this is an excerpt for my book, I Once Was Lost, my search for God in America. These days, a lot of people here and abroad associate the American flag with the most bellicose, narrow minded ideology. Because the ones waving that flag loudest and hardest are bellicose, narrow minded ideologues. They wave the flag as a symbol of the America. They envision a country that belongs to them by divine right, not the United States we all share. And to drive that point home, they carried the stars and stripes alongside the stars and bars of the Confederacy, a treasonous junta that literally tore the United States apart in a bloody effort to preserve slavery as an economic engine. The term Christian nationalism rings out with faux nobility, but it's a wolf in sheep's clothing, white supremacy, cloaked and evangelical religiosity.

This section is some of the best writing in the book. I must say now, the other thing I want to say is for me, I want people to take that idea how we can reframe all that discussion about what it means to be a patriot and be an American Menon, You're one of many people who pursued that in this book. But what I got from this book was your It's a call. It's a call to say to people, we all need to take a break from this world, this loud, cacaphanous, commercialized world, and take a moment to connect with something spiritual. It doesn't have to be a religion, to just connect to something where we can settle ourselves. How can you calm yourself and make yourself the better you on a day to day basis? I mean, I get this from this book.

Look, do you realize that you answered that question earlier when you said that, no matter how someone treats you or who they are, when you meet someone, you try to approach them as if they're going through something going through. What are they going through And so as I write and here, I believe that what's important to convey is that we keep trying to Most people keep trying to find look at, you know, create God in their own image, when we should be looking for God's image and other people. And as long as you do that, I think that's the answer. That's how you settle yourself. And you're talking about this about patriotism. I say in this book that as a black man, I have a complicated relationship with a flag, and as a gay man, I have a complicated relationship with a Bible. But I was able to overcome that by using critical thinking and trying to find love in my fellow man rather than judging people and trying to create God in my own image.

You think you have your doubts about everybody comes out of It's like having a baby. You write a book. When it's done, you're like, oh, I'm never doing that. But the thing is that you write these books because I have a theory which is that these are bricks. These are bricks, and this is one of your bricks that you're building a library, a world library. These are bricks. I have a theory where when the aliens come and take over and destroy this world. They're going to erase every tape in every CD and every DVD that's just scarbage. And they're going to pick up a book and they go, now, what's this, And they're going to want to go this more thoughtful, this is more you, more of your heart is in this. I mean your work in television is exemplary. I mean I don't want you to give up writing books. Thank you, Alec. I think you're right.

It's like we have all of these photographs in our cell phones, and then where do they go when we're not here? When I go to your house, right, your family's there, you're there, but I'm looking at the pictures on the wall and I go around and look and where's this from? Where's this moment from? But no one goes into your phone and does that. And that's the same thing that you're saying about the books and erasing things that are digital, because throughout.

The moment, Yeah, thank you, thank you, My thanks to Don Lemon. Here's the Thing is recorded at CDM Studios in New York City. This episode was produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, and Maureen Hobin. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio

Here's The Thing with Alec Baldwin

Award-winning actor Alec Baldwin takes listeners into the lives of artists, policy makers and perfor 
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 416 clip(s)